<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.2.3" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ruttenberg&#8217;s Story Getting Interest</title>
	<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/</link>
	<description>Blog-Fu for Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 08:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5472</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jan 2007 02:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5472</guid>
		<description>Thanks Cheney.  I will keep your words in mind.  Happy New Year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Cheney.  I will keep your words in mind.  Happy New Year.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5471</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jan 2007 01:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5471</guid>
		<description>Of course, I meant "blind eye."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, I meant &#8220;blind eye.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5468</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 20:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5468</guid>
		<description>Anonon, I've seen your posts here on BVBL for quite some time and you seem like a good person who is genuinely interested in her community.  Given that, perhaps you should also remember the sage truth that evil can only exist if good people turn a blind to it.  All that Greg and Radley are trying to do is inform and activate good people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonon, I&#8217;ve seen your posts here on BVBL for quite some time and you seem like a good person who is genuinely interested in her community.  Given that, perhaps you should also remember the sage truth that evil can only exist if good people turn a blind to it.  All that Greg and Radley are trying to do is inform and activate good people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Golem</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5467</link>
		<dc:creator>Golem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5467</guid>
		<description>Anonon:

David Ruttenberg has done business in Manassas Park for 18 years. He realized the serious nature of a Federal suit that alleged violation by Manassas Park officials of basic constitutional rights. Accordingly, he wanted to be absoultely certain that his allegations could withstand the most intense scrutiny. In order to do this he based the Federal suit on the formal record in the case that was established before the ABC. 

The formal record before the ABC is a total indictment of the activities of certain Manassas Park officials. It does not, however, include OTB facts because they were not relevant to the ABC proceeding. It does includes sworn testimony and other evidence about Lugo's relationship with Nina which Lugo tried to deny at the hearing. David Ruttenberg's contemporaneous report to Officer Larry Berry (Lugo's boss) about Lugo's threats to close down the business. Sworn testimony about RnR's head of security working for the police (in order to get leniency with respect to probation to which he was then subject) to allow drug deals in RnR that he was, in fact, responsible for preventing. Sworn testimony from the sister of the principal drug dealer at RnR (Jeff Price) that he was working for the Narcotics Task Force and that they specifically wanted him to do drug deals at RnR. Sworn testimony to the effect that the only individual to buy drugs at RnR was an undercover police officer (who bought from the "principal dealer"). Sworn testimony from police officers that they unsuccessfully attempted a similar drug setup, by co-opting David's then girlfriend, in 2003. And on and on.  

Although David had substantial evidence of an OTB connection (reference this blog and others), he did not have the hard core facts he had on unconstitutional police activity. David wanted to be responsible with respect to any allegation made in the Federal suit. Further, he had confidence that the Federal Court would permit his case to go forward to a jury, i.e., that the motion to dismiss would not be granted. Once that happened, David could utilize the discovery procedures of the Federal Court to further investigate the OTB connection, e.g., depositions of the actors involved including those from the race track . As additional hard core evidence was identified, the complaint would be modified to include OTB allegations.

David's confidence in the court was misguided. The motion to dismiss was granted. Unless the Rutttenberg's prevail on the appeal to the Fourth Circuit, the true facts in this case will not be made public and, unfortunately, the public's constitutional protections will inevitably be weakened. 

The idea that David has "changed his tune" is wrong but consistent with your position throughout. You still don't know David Ruttenberg Anonon and you never will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonon:</p>
<p>David Ruttenberg has done business in Manassas Park for 18 years. He realized the serious nature of a Federal suit that alleged violation by Manassas Park officials of basic constitutional rights. Accordingly, he wanted to be absoultely certain that his allegations could withstand the most intense scrutiny. In order to do this he based the Federal suit on the formal record in the case that was established before the ABC. </p>
<p>The formal record before the ABC is a total indictment of the activities of certain Manassas Park officials. It does not, however, include OTB facts because they were not relevant to the ABC proceeding. It does includes sworn testimony and other evidence about Lugo&#8217;s relationship with Nina which Lugo tried to deny at the hearing. David Ruttenberg&#8217;s contemporaneous report to Officer Larry Berry (Lugo&#8217;s boss) about Lugo&#8217;s threats to close down the business. Sworn testimony about RnR&#8217;s head of security working for the police (in order to get leniency with respect to probation to which he was then subject) to allow drug deals in RnR that he was, in fact, responsible for preventing. Sworn testimony from the sister of the principal drug dealer at RnR (Jeff Price) that he was working for the Narcotics Task Force and that they specifically wanted him to do drug deals at RnR. Sworn testimony to the effect that the only individual to buy drugs at RnR was an undercover police officer (who bought from the &#8220;principal dealer&#8221;). Sworn testimony from police officers that they unsuccessfully attempted a similar drug setup, by co-opting David&#8217;s then girlfriend, in 2003. And on and on.  </p>
<p>Although David had substantial evidence of an OTB connection (reference this blog and others), he did not have the hard core facts he had on unconstitutional police activity. David wanted to be responsible with respect to any allegation made in the Federal suit. Further, he had confidence that the Federal Court would permit his case to go forward to a jury, i.e., that the motion to dismiss would not be granted. Once that happened, David could utilize the discovery procedures of the Federal Court to further investigate the OTB connection, e.g., depositions of the actors involved including those from the race track . As additional hard core evidence was identified, the complaint would be modified to include OTB allegations.</p>
<p>David&#8217;s confidence in the court was misguided. The motion to dismiss was granted. Unless the Rutttenberg&#8217;s prevail on the appeal to the Fourth Circuit, the true facts in this case will not be made public and, unfortunately, the public&#8217;s constitutional protections will inevitably be weakened. </p>
<p>The idea that David has &#8220;changed his tune&#8221; is wrong but consistent with your position throughout. You still don&#8217;t know David Ruttenberg Anonon and you never will.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Radley Balko</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5465</link>
		<dc:creator>Radley Balko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5465</guid>
		<description>The court documents I published had the officers' names redacted.  Frankly, I don't think they deserve that much.  I don't think they should be police officers anymore, much less be allowed to continue to do undercover work.  Still, I obliged, and left out their names.

I didn't redact the names of the informants working for the police because the use of those informants, and the way their identities have been protected, is one way the town has effectively trapped  Mr. Ruttenberg.

Follow me, here.  Mr. Ruttenberg is saying -- and with good evidence, I think -- that the police are sending people into his bar to initiate drug activity, then they're turning right around to accuse Mr.  Ruttenberg of operating an "open air drug market."  In his ABC hearing, Mr. Ruttenberg attempted to prove that the drug activity described in the complaint against him was being initiated by the police.  But he was barred from doing so, because the police refused to say who was and wasn't working for them as an informant.  The confidentiality granted to informants basically made it impossible for Mr. Ruttenberg to defend himself.

As for what I'd like to see happen in this case, well, I'd like to see Mr. Ruttenberg compensated for the loss of his business and his reputation.  I' m sorry that the city of Manassas Park may end up having to pay for part of that (though most cities have municipal insurance for this kind of thing).  But what would you have happen?  Should Mr. Ruttenberg just have to write off his business?  Should he just have to live with the nasty rumors that were spread about him?  What kind of message would that send about how Manassas Park treats its businesses?

I'd also like to see the individuals responsible for this held accountable.  That would include financial judgments against them in favor or Mr. Ruttenberg, but it should also criminal charges, where appropriate.

I do appreciate the more civil tone in your second response.  I don't have any animus for Manassas Park.  I grew up in a small town, and have fond memories of it.  And I do regret that the people of Manassas Park may have to pay for the mistakes of their public officials.  But in my opinion, Mr. Ruttenberg has been clearly wronged, here.  And when the government violates someone's civil rights, that person is owed compensation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The court documents I published had the officers&#8217; names redacted.  Frankly, I don&#8217;t think they deserve that much.  I don&#8217;t think they should be police officers anymore, much less be allowed to continue to do undercover work.  Still, I obliged, and left out their names.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t redact the names of the informants working for the police because the use of those informants, and the way their identities have been protected, is one way the town has effectively trapped  Mr. Ruttenberg.</p>
<p>Follow me, here.  Mr. Ruttenberg is saying &#8212; and with good evidence, I think &#8212; that the police are sending people into his bar to initiate drug activity, then they&#8217;re turning right around to accuse Mr.  Ruttenberg of operating an &#8220;open air drug market.&#8221;  In his ABC hearing, Mr. Ruttenberg attempted to prove that the drug activity described in the complaint against him was being initiated by the police.  But he was barred from doing so, because the police refused to say who was and wasn&#8217;t working for them as an informant.  The confidentiality granted to informants basically made it impossible for Mr. Ruttenberg to defend himself.</p>
<p>As for what I&#8217;d like to see happen in this case, well, I&#8217;d like to see Mr. Ruttenberg compensated for the loss of his business and his reputation.  I&#8217; m sorry that the city of Manassas Park may end up having to pay for part of that (though most cities have municipal insurance for this kind of thing).  But what would you have happen?  Should Mr. Ruttenberg just have to write off his business?  Should he just have to live with the nasty rumors that were spread about him?  What kind of message would that send about how Manassas Park treats its businesses?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to see the individuals responsible for this held accountable.  That would include financial judgments against them in favor or Mr. Ruttenberg, but it should also criminal charges, where appropriate.</p>
<p>I do appreciate the more civil tone in your second response.  I don&#8217;t have any animus for Manassas Park.  I grew up in a small town, and have fond memories of it.  And I do regret that the people of Manassas Park may have to pay for the mistakes of their public officials.  But in my opinion, Mr. Ruttenberg has been clearly wronged, here.  And when the government violates someone&#8217;s civil rights, that person is owed compensation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5464</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5464</guid>
		<description>I apologize for the cheap shots comment, Mr. Balko.  (Greg can take it out if he wishes.)  You are right, law enforcement should be held to a higher standard.  But is publishing court documents without the officers names redacted could potentially put undercover investigations and other officers at risk.  How is that defensible?

In case you missed the results of the last election, two people involved and supportive of the OTB initiative were voted out of office.  If I remember correctly, Adam Larson lead the fight against it and was elected (until he bailed out of office and town.)  

There is no functional recall mechanism in this state - it isn't merely a matter of collecting signatures.  The next election is two years out.  What do you want?  To drag this whole community through the mud and drive our property values to the dump?  Because I think you guys might just be able to pull that one off...

You all put this out there because you wanted people engaged and aware.  Well, I am reading every day.  That doesn't mean I have to like you or what you are saying.  But I am thinking about it.  A lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize for the cheap shots comment, Mr. Balko.  (Greg can take it out if he wishes.)  You are right, law enforcement should be held to a higher standard.  But is publishing court documents without the officers names redacted could potentially put undercover investigations and other officers at risk.  How is that defensible?</p>
<p>In case you missed the results of the last election, two people involved and supportive of the OTB initiative were voted out of office.  If I remember correctly, Adam Larson lead the fight against it and was elected (until he bailed out of office and town.)  </p>
<p>There is no functional recall mechanism in this state - it isn&#8217;t merely a matter of collecting signatures.  The next election is two years out.  What do you want?  To drag this whole community through the mud and drive our property values to the dump?  Because I think you guys might just be able to pull that one off&#8230;</p>
<p>You all put this out there because you wanted people engaged and aware.  Well, I am reading every day.  That doesn&#8217;t mean I have to like you or what you are saying.  But I am thinking about it.  A lot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5463</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5463</guid>
		<description>That's the handle I use here - in case you haven't figured it out, this is a small town.  Cheap shots - you seem to do it for a living.  The men who attacked my dad were never punished - a group of men threw a masonry block in his back during a riot.  Has lived in pain every single day since, for over thirty years.  Face it, there is no justice in the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the handle I use here - in case you haven&#8217;t figured it out, this is a small town.  Cheap shots - you seem to do it for a living.  The men who attacked my dad were never punished - a group of men threw a masonry block in his back during a riot.  Has lived in pain every single day since, for over thirty years.  Face it, there is no justice in the world.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Radley Balko</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5460</link>
		<dc:creator>Radley Balko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 05:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5460</guid>
		<description>I'm not against law enforcement.  I'm against law enforcement officials who feel they're above the law, and policies that basically put them above the law.  This case is a good example of both.

The problem isn't that most cops are bad -- the vast majority are good, honorable public servants.  The problem is that a few of them are bad, and that the good ones cover for the bad ones.

My work on SWAT teams is more about a bad policy that puts good cops in precarious positions than about bad cops.

Not sure what about my work "offends you to the core."  If your father was injured in the line of duty by a criminal, I think that criminal ought to be punished.  But when police break the law or abuse their authority and people get hurt as a result, they ought to be punished, too.  Too often they aren't.

If you think police officers should be held to a lower standard than everyone else, then I guess I'm glad I offend you.  If you think they should be held to the same, if not higher, standard, then nothing about what I've written should be particularly offensive.

And at least I write under my own name.  Kinda cheap to take a shot at me under the "anonymous" handle, don't you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not against law enforcement.  I&#8217;m against law enforcement officials who feel they&#8217;re above the law, and policies that basically put them above the law.  This case is a good example of both.</p>
<p>The problem isn&#8217;t that most cops are bad &#8212; the vast majority are good, honorable public servants.  The problem is that a few of them are bad, and that the good ones cover for the bad ones.</p>
<p>My work on SWAT teams is more about a bad policy that puts good cops in precarious positions than about bad cops.</p>
<p>Not sure what about my work &#8220;offends you to the core.&#8221;  If your father was injured in the line of duty by a criminal, I think that criminal ought to be punished.  But when police break the law or abuse their authority and people get hurt as a result, they ought to be punished, too.  Too often they aren&#8217;t.</p>
<p>If you think police officers should be held to a lower standard than everyone else, then I guess I&#8217;m glad I offend you.  If you think they should be held to the same, if not higher, standard, then nothing about what I&#8217;ve written should be particularly offensive.</p>
<p>And at least I write under my own name.  Kinda cheap to take a shot at me under the &#8220;anonymous&#8221; handle, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5459</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 02:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5459</guid>
		<description>I guess the other problem I have with this is the source - Balko.  As the child of a law enforcement officer who was permenently disabled (and left in constant pain for more than 30 years now) by injuries sustained in the line of duty, he offends me to the core.  I know that's not you, Greg - you supported Delegate Miller, a cop - but he's an ___.   Law enforcement officers are largely noble and often pay a real price for their service.  He seems to think that they are the root of all evil.

I'll wait to hear your evidence, because I can't believe Balko.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the other problem I have with this is the source - Balko.  As the child of a law enforcement officer who was permenently disabled (and left in constant pain for more than 30 years now) by injuries sustained in the line of duty, he offends me to the core.  I know that&#8217;s not you, Greg - you supported Delegate Miller, a cop - but he&#8217;s an ___.   Law enforcement officers are largely noble and often pay a real price for their service.  He seems to think that they are the root of all evil.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll wait to hear your evidence, because I can&#8217;t believe Balko.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5458</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 02:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5458</guid>
		<description>"Plus, I know that there is drug and gang activity in that shopping center - I have seen it and I don’t go there as a result. You see where, with all that, people might doubt his story?"

Anonon, this activity is coming from another area in the shopping center...and is well-known to the police and others.  This is the reason that Dave Ruttenberg was so careful to have more security, both electronic and human, than other similar businesses in the area.  This was also the reason that he made sure to immediately report any illegal activity that he either witnessed or heard about to the police.  As a matter of fact, there was actually an incident some years ago, before the raid, when he reported a major drug incident that he had been told about...and a police officer was WITNESSED informing the drug dealer that Dave had informed on him.  

There is considerable evidence existing that the authorities have much to answer for...and none that Dave is guilty of anything other than naiveté.  THAT is why they don't want it presented in court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Plus, I know that there is drug and gang activity in that shopping center - I have seen it and I don’t go there as a result. You see where, with all that, people might doubt his story?&#8221;</p>
<p>Anonon, this activity is coming from another area in the shopping center&#8230;and is well-known to the police and others.  This is the reason that Dave Ruttenberg was so careful to have more security, both electronic and human, than other similar businesses in the area.  This was also the reason that he made sure to immediately report any illegal activity that he either witnessed or heard about to the police.  As a matter of fact, there was actually an incident some years ago, before the raid, when he reported a major drug incident that he had been told about&#8230;and a police officer was WITNESSED informing the drug dealer that Dave had informed on him.  </p>
<p>There is considerable evidence existing that the authorities have much to answer for&#8230;and none that Dave is guilty of anything other than naiveté.  THAT is why they don&#8217;t want it presented in court.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg L</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5457</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 02:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5457</guid>
		<description>There may have been a real legal strategy involved in not referring directly to the OTB connection with all of this in the pleading.  Don't construe it not being there as a reason to believe the connection doesn't exist.  The personal issue between that MPC police officer and Ruttenberg is probably a big motivator for that side story, but it's not the meat, and the OTB angle was embargoed during the lawsuit.

I know there's a TON of stuff to wade through, and it may not all fit togethere yet, but as this story is told I assure you it will all make sense.  Just watch as the evidence gets rolled out.  It's coming soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There may have been a real legal strategy involved in not referring directly to the OTB connection with all of this in the pleading.  Don&#8217;t construe it not being there as a reason to believe the connection doesn&#8217;t exist.  The personal issue between that MPC police officer and Ruttenberg is probably a big motivator for that side story, but it&#8217;s not the meat, and the OTB angle was embargoed during the lawsuit.</p>
<p>I know there&#8217;s a TON of stuff to wade through, and it may not all fit togethere yet, but as this story is told I assure you it will all make sense.  Just watch as the evidence gets rolled out.  It&#8217;s coming soon.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5456</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 00:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5456</guid>
		<description>The circuit court doc is on the Agitator site.  It mentions nothing about the OTB.  Everyone is taking this guy at face value, but from where I am sitting he's changed his tune from personal vendetta about a girl to the OTB thing.  Which one is true?  Why didn't he put it in the court filing if he has evidence to support his assertions.  And he has singled out one mayor when the timeline doesn't support that (as you noted.)  Plus, I know that there is drug and gang activity in that shopping center - I have seen it and I don't go there as a result.  You see where, with all that, people might doubt his story?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The circuit court doc is on the Agitator site.  It mentions nothing about the OTB.  Everyone is taking this guy at face value, but from where I am sitting he&#8217;s changed his tune from personal vendetta about a girl to the OTB thing.  Which one is true?  Why didn&#8217;t he put it in the court filing if he has evidence to support his assertions.  And he has singled out one mayor when the timeline doesn&#8217;t support that (as you noted.)  Plus, I know that there is drug and gang activity in that shopping center - I have seen it and I don&#8217;t go there as a result.  You see where, with all that, people might doubt his story?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5454</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 21:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5454</guid>
		<description>Vote Totals  Percentage
F. C. "Frank" Jones Jr. 	320 	56.34%
William J. Treuting Jr. 	248 	43.66%

I just checked - Frank Jones was elected in May 2004.  He wasn't sworn in until July 1, 2004, after the raid.  I question why only one mayor was named in the suit when the raid actually occurred on someone else's watch.  Does the research or evidence offer any explanation for that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vote Totals  Percentage<br />
F. C. &#8220;Frank&#8221; Jones Jr. 	320 	56.34%<br />
William J. Treuting Jr. 	248 	43.66%</p>
<p>I just checked - Frank Jones was elected in May 2004.  He wasn&#8217;t sworn in until July 1, 2004, after the raid.  I question why only one mayor was named in the suit when the raid actually occurred on someone else&#8217;s watch.  Does the research or evidence offer any explanation for that?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5450</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 03:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5450</guid>
		<description>This whole thing started on Bill Treuting's watch...nobody's hands are clean here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole thing started on Bill Treuting&#8217;s watch&#8230;nobody&#8217;s hands are clean here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5444</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5444</guid>
		<description>Where is the circuit court document? I would like to read it but if it's been posted somewhere, I haven't found it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is the circuit court document? I would like to read it but if it&#8217;s been posted somewhere, I haven&#8217;t found it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5443</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5443</guid>
		<description>I just read the whole circuit court document.  Can you explain why it refers to Frank Jones being mayor at the time of the raid in June 2004.  Bill Treuting was...  If memory serves, I voted for Bill in May 2004 and Frank Jones wasn't sworn in until July 1 of that year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read the whole circuit court document.  Can you explain why it refers to Frank Jones being mayor at the time of the raid in June 2004.  Bill Treuting was&#8230;  If memory serves, I voted for Bill in May 2004 and Frank Jones wasn&#8217;t sworn in until July 1 of that year?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Batson D. Belfrey</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5442</link>
		<dc:creator>Batson D. Belfrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5442</guid>
		<description>"Anonon said on 29 Dec 2006 at 12:06 am: 
And what if you are wrong? "

And what if the blogs had been wrong about the fake documents claiming G.W. Bush was AWOL from his Air National Guard post?

Answer: The MSM would not have been forced to do their jobs, and we'd still be stuck with Dan Rather, and maybe even President John Kerry

And what if the blogs had been wrong about about the Foley emails an IM's?

Answer: Brian Ross wouldn't have had a story, and we'd have a predator in Congress.

And what if this blog hadn't educated the voters that Jeanette Rishell was a radical liberal who supports the EZLN who have declared war on the US?

Answer: I could be moving to Idaho now.


The point is, Greg, and this blog has done a tremendous job getting the real news out there. The MJM does a TERRIBLE job of getting the facts behind the story, or staying with the story to it's conclusion. You imply that MP doesn't have some issues to work out? You mean to tell me that local governments never abuse their power, like say in siezing private property and turning it over to developers? Your argument that because BVBL supported the Miller campaign, he can't comment on the goings on in Manassas Park is just plain silly. That's like saying that because the MJM's editorial board is so pro-illegal, the paper can't run a story about an illegal committing a crime....

Greg, stay with this story. We need to know the facts. The MJM is to busy covering fluff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Anonon said on 29 Dec 2006 at 12:06 am:<br />
And what if you are wrong? &#8221;</p>
<p>And what if the blogs had been wrong about the fake documents claiming G.W. Bush was AWOL from his Air National Guard post?</p>
<p>Answer: The MSM would not have been forced to do their jobs, and we&#8217;d still be stuck with Dan Rather, and maybe even President John Kerry</p>
<p>And what if the blogs had been wrong about about the Foley emails an IM&#8217;s?</p>
<p>Answer: Brian Ross wouldn&#8217;t have had a story, and we&#8217;d have a predator in Congress.</p>
<p>And what if this blog hadn&#8217;t educated the voters that Jeanette Rishell was a radical liberal who supports the EZLN who have declared war on the US?</p>
<p>Answer: I could be moving to Idaho now.</p>
<p>The point is, Greg, and this blog has done a tremendous job getting the real news out there. The MJM does a TERRIBLE job of getting the facts behind the story, or staying with the story to it&#8217;s conclusion. You imply that MP doesn&#8217;t have some issues to work out? You mean to tell me that local governments never abuse their power, like say in siezing private property and turning it over to developers? Your argument that because BVBL supported the Miller campaign, he can&#8217;t comment on the goings on in Manassas Park is just plain silly. That&#8217;s like saying that because the MJM&#8217;s editorial board is so pro-illegal, the paper can&#8217;t run a story about an illegal committing a crime&#8230;.</p>
<p>Greg, stay with this story. We need to know the facts. The MJM is to busy covering fluff.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5441</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 09:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5441</guid>
		<description>Anonon, in the past year I have personally witnessed much of what Dave Ruttenberg has reported to Greg.  During that time I have strongly encouraged both Dave and his father to go public with this but they were convinced that the system and the courts would protect them and give them justice, and they didn't want to embarrass Manassas Park unnecessarily.  I, being perhaps a bit jaded, was convinced that by not combating the vicious slander campaign undertaken by the authorities and utilizing the "court of public opinion" they would never get justice.  I respected their wishes but obviously I was right.

Perhaps a public outcry can finally get them that hard-earned day in court so that the evidence can finally be presented and those responsible for the willful destruction of a man's reputation, livelihood, and future can be brought to task.  That justice is long overdue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonon, in the past year I have personally witnessed much of what Dave Ruttenberg has reported to Greg.  During that time I have strongly encouraged both Dave and his father to go public with this but they were convinced that the system and the courts would protect them and give them justice, and they didn&#8217;t want to embarrass Manassas Park unnecessarily.  I, being perhaps a bit jaded, was convinced that by not combating the vicious slander campaign undertaken by the authorities and utilizing the &#8220;court of public opinion&#8221; they would never get justice.  I respected their wishes but obviously I was right.</p>
<p>Perhaps a public outcry can finally get them that hard-earned day in court so that the evidence can finally be presented and those responsible for the willful destruction of a man&#8217;s reputation, livelihood, and future can be brought to task.  That justice is long overdue.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greg L</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5440</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 05:21:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5440</guid>
		<description>I've seen a tremendous amount of documentation that satisfies my concerns about whether Dave Ruttenberg is being truthful or not.  I've checked on the information I've posted, and others are busy verifying the information as well.  No one has been able to discredit any of the facts David has provided so far, or has even tried to dispute them.

I'm about as confident as I can possibly be in this story.  The chance of this being wrong is vanishingly small, and this scandal needs serious investigation which has so far been thwarted.  Perhaps not for long though, given some of the rumblings I'm hearing.

The only part of this I cannot determine, and it's not coming from Dave Ruttenberg, is how high up the coverups go.  The answer to that is likely to be pretty shocking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen a tremendous amount of documentation that satisfies my concerns about whether Dave Ruttenberg is being truthful or not.  I&#8217;ve checked on the information I&#8217;ve posted, and others are busy verifying the information as well.  No one has been able to discredit any of the facts David has provided so far, or has even tried to dispute them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m about as confident as I can possibly be in this story.  The chance of this being wrong is vanishingly small, and this scandal needs serious investigation which has so far been thwarted.  Perhaps not for long though, given some of the rumblings I&#8217;m hearing.</p>
<p>The only part of this I cannot determine, and it&#8217;s not coming from Dave Ruttenberg, is how high up the coverups go.  The answer to that is likely to be pretty shocking.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonon</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5439</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 05:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2006/12/28/ruttenbergs-story-getting-interest/#comment-5439</guid>
		<description>And what if you are wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what if you are wrong?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

