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Zapatistas On The QMCB Raids
By Greg L | 20 January 2007 | Zapatistas, Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 59 Comments
In it’s never-ending quest to provide as much media access as possible to Mexicanos Sin Fronteras (Mexicans Without Borders), the Manassas Journal-Messenger is once again covering this outrageous Zapatista front-group. This time, Nancy Lyall, the legal coordinator for the group, weighs in on the immigration raids that were conducted at Quantico Marine Corps Base and an apartment complex in Woodbridge. Any enforcement of immigration laws, by any level of government, is apparently a bad thing for her. (See QCMB Raided For — Illegals? for earlier coverage)
From the article:
Federal authorities arrested 18 people on immigration-related charges early Thursday morning after an investigation into a construction company that allegedly arranged for illegal immigrants to work on Quantico Marine Corps base. The company was run from an apartment at the Chesapeake Apartments complex in Woodbridge, according to federal court documents.
“These acts are creating terror in the immigration community … and we want to say we are strongly opposed to allowing local police to participate in [U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement],” [Ricardo] Juarez said.
Apparently, the amnesty crowd can’t figure out the difference between a federal operation conducted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and the not-yet-implemented proposal to have officers at the Regional Adult Detention Center trained by ICE so that we can deport criminal aliens. It’s pretty consistent with their confusion about what the Section 287(g) program involves, where Mexicanos Sin Fronteras fellow-travellers “Unity In The Community” told the county board of supervisors that the program would lead to traffic stops and housing inspections. If you want to get dumber about immigration issues, these are definitely the folks you should talk to.
The next time these wingnuts show up to talk about immigration, just remember that they think that illegal aliens should be permitted to work on taxpayer-funded Department of Defense contracts inside the secure perimeters of military installations. This notion is utterly outrageous on several levels, and the MJM should hold Mexicanos Sin Fronteras accountable for these insane ideas. I’m not holding my breath that they will.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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I just read the entire article. Wow, is all I can say. So, we should just allow criminals to freely roam our streets,and do so freely without fear? Yet, those that are not criminals are the ones forced to change our lifes in order to avoid these criminals. Simply amazing.
Well, I suppose to be consistant on this issue, we should just allow every single criminal the same respect and treatment, get rid of all law enforcement and jails, that way, it cannot be said that only hispanics are held above the law.
Just as a follow up, the local raid was just one of three conducted by ICE at three different bases around the Country.
I see Skinner and Deane are mentioned again in the article as being part of the week kneed problem of illegal immigration. When in the hell are the city council and the board of supervisors gonna shut these spineless politically correct bureaucrats up.
Stewart - Nohe - Covington - Jenkins - Barg - Stirrup - Caddigan - I know you worship the ground that Deane walks on, but he is not an elected official. Im and sick and tired of hearing his strong opinion on public policy. You are the elected officials - not him.
Waldron - Parrish - Smith - Randolf - Aveni - Harrover - Show some spine. Its widely known that Hughs has made all the decisions for years as council just sits there and looks pretty. Its also well known how Hughes and Skinner would regularly bitch slap Miller back in his place whenever he tried to stand up for something right - of course he never got any real help, at least he tried. Show some real leadership. Put a gag on the bureaucrat - its not for Skinner to decide if The City participates in ICE - ITS YOUR DECISION - Thank god I moved out of that hell hole of a city. Half of the city looks like a slum in Juarez Mexico.
Everyone take a deep breath - and remember that the
the ICE 287(g) program is focused on individuals that
are here illegally AND are convicted felons. There will
no “street sweeps” because, if for no other reason, there
are no resources (i.e. - money, trained people, detention
centers).
From a pragmatic standpoint, immigrants should welcome
the program — really bad hombres are taken of the
street and that helps everyone in the community.
Big Dog: I agree. Unfortunately the illegal alien apologists have tried to characterize the program as something it is not — as the sort of sweep of the community that we actually really need, but which would pose significant difficulties in crafting a means for doing so which would pass legal muster. Right now, we’re working on the criminal alien problem that is vitally important for the community, but doesn’t promise to solve the other issues of overcrowding and other issues related to illegal immigration.
At some point we may have the tools to more adequately identify and remove illegal aliens in our midst. Right now they don’t exist in any effective form, but as long as we continue to press the issue the possibility of those tools becoming available can only improve.
But if you listen to Mexicanos Sin Fronteras, you’d think that we already have them and intend to use them. If only it were that simple.
By the same token, let’s all take note of the fact that ICE 287 (g) has been on the books since 1996 — and here we are, only a mere 11 years later, holding our breath for our elected officials to ACT!! A few more years and they’ll all be retired — and perhaps that’s the point!!
Fenian:
“Its widely known that Hughs has made all the decisions for years as council just sits there and looks pretty”
I would rather be considered “handsome” than “pretty” but I’ll take it. It’s a fair bet that if Mr. Hughes was calling the shots, the legislative record would look very different.
Also, in case you missed it, we’ve already approved ICE. We’re just waiting on our partners to vote on it.
Regards
What pisses me off, is these liberal marxist groups are protesting the enforcement of FEDERAL Immigration Laws….by arresting illegals working on FEDERAL property….by FEDERAL agents. Layall says that the raids are detrimental to public safety…WHO’s Safety? Greg, can you find out who this person is?
I am in agreement with Fenian…time for Hughes and Skinner to go. They have forgotten their place. They execute the will of the Council, not the other way around. I say, clean house.
Councilman Harrover paleeese. You all cowered in the shadow of big bad Chief Skinner. Even Miller buckled when the Chief got a little red in the face and scolded him. Rather than send a couple city cops through the training - you caved to the politacally correct crap Skinner was spewing and dumped the decision onto the county board and the jail DO BOTH.
BTW, I know I sound like a raving lunatic on this issue. I have never gotten so upset about an issue like I have on immigration. The third world surge in Manassas is what made me sell and move to Haymarket.
Councilman Harrover thank you for your service. You and all of our electeds have thankless job. I have often agreed and disagreed with many decisions made by local Govt., but this is an issue where there is no more room for “taking a deep breath” (Big Dog) - we have procrastinated long enough. Illegal immigration IS destroying Manassas (that is if it hasent already been destroyed)
The Council would be wise to listen to people like Fenian. Fenian is being honest about why Fenian left Manassas; many others are leaving for the same reason but are intimidated into silence because talking about it is not pc. If the Council choses to be pc instead of trying instructing its employees to vigorously enforce regulations designed to preserve pleasant City neighborhoods, the City of Manassas will rapidly become so similar to third world slums, that no amount of City boosterism will be sufficient incentive for middle class residents or businesses to remain in Manassas let alone attact new middle class residents or new businesses to become part of the City. My family has made a decision to remain in the City — I hope we are not making a mistake. Each member of the City Council needs to become more familiar with what is happening in the City; walking the City might be a good way to see what is happening. Listening to residents and not assuming that people with complaints are just xenophobic nuts would also be smart.
I agree with the last two posters. The City leadership has big plans for the future of the City. Yet, all of that will come to nothing if illegal immigration is not taken care of. How much longer will the law abiding Citizens have to put up with this issue? As a foot note, the City hired a neighborhood consultant or some such titled position. In the short time this person has been on the job, she seems to be more concerned with being PC and not pissing anyone off, rather then getting tough with overcrowding. The City does not need a gaduate of the Peace Corps or some other liberal program in this type of position.
“The City does not need a gaduate of the Peace Corps or some other liberal program in this type of position. ”
That’s called “Damage Control”…courtesy of our very own taxpayer dollars, as the city tries to keep a lid on the one element it HAS been able to control for many years — the legal residents and their frustration with our neighborhoods sliding into the third world as well as the demise of our culture and heritage as Americans.
One of the key critical elements that attracts upscale businesses and well educated, professional folks to a community is top notch schools. Can that be said of Manassas schools any longer after the breath-taking disclosure recently that more than 50% of the student population here is now hispanic? Our neighbors who moved had a daughter in elementary school and said the single reason they were leaving was because they didn’t want their child learning the language in an “English as Second Language” class. A little tongue in cheek perhaps, but for how long?? The other rumor in the neighborhood was that one of the local elementary schools was about ready to go Title X due to the large number of disadvantaged students in the population…
The city needs to take the “impact” of this situation seriously and stop listening to appointed officials who are watching the retirement clock — some of whom do not even live in the city.
Some cold hard facts:
- The city council must obey federal and state laws
(and in Virginia, under the Dillon Rule, local
government is a “child of the commonwealth” and
must be granted specific permission by the GA to
pass many ordinances that are taken for granted in
most other states. A strong Manassas rental inspection
program that helped towards cleaning up GTS was
gutted in Richmond several years ago by southside
delegates just as council was looking at expanding its
scope.)
- The FEDERAL government is responsible for
immigration and has done nothing but harass
any local body that, by default, has tried to mitigate
the impact of chronic illegal immigration. We may
have had a GOP president and congress for six
years, but the PC crowd has run HUD for decades.
Wish the answer was as simple as giving our council
a kick in the butt. Alas, it is far more complex than that
action.
What can be done is to staff the enforcement arm of what
laws we can have with competent goal oriented
employees.
First off a spelling correction— a graduate of…..
The City schools are in fact ready to fall apart.. and who will have to pay for that? Not the illegals who are living two or three families to a single family home, since that residence will only produce a single real estate tax bill, but the hard working legal residents of the City.
I have a neighbor who might be to the left of Castro when it comes to politics(just to give you an idea of how this guy thinks), who volunteered at Jennie Dean last year since his youngest child attended the school. Well, as a long time supporter of the public school system, and as a former teacher, he came away with a very different opinion after last year.
While the City attempts to put a happy face on the school system, the schools continue to fall apart. A sad story indeed.
Sorry Big Dog, but the council does NOT get a pass this time. Manassas citizens have been complaining since the late 90s about what was happening here. But we found ourselves occupied with the Candy Factory, the Harris Pavillion, the Opera House, etc. by the council of the time (a large majority of whom still sit on council).
While the Dillon rule may account for part of the problem, that does not explain the fact that the ICE 287(g) tool was available since 1996 — and apparetly ignored locally.
Did local law enforcement even advise council of this tool? If so, when?
I live in the Park and frankly I am appalled at the conversion of this once quaint little redneck town into a third world toilet. I too am going to move out of here in spring but with the way the market is and the number of houses also for sale I fear that I may have waited too long and will be stuck here. It’s like a dirty little secret that nobody talks about. I don’t even see the minutemen talking about it. The park is way worse than Herndon ever was yet I never hear mention of it. Illegal immigration was never made an issue during the elections and when i asked both council people (jeanette something or other and some policeman also running) they both pretty much gave me nothing of substance. I will probably list my house for 20k under market just to sweeten the deal and leave this dump behind forever. No sense bellyaching about this issue because it’s obvious that the hispanification of our culture is here and is here to stay and is government sponsored. Refusal to pay real estate taxes based on government unwillingness to crack down on illegal immigration would certainly get their attention, and probably the media’s too.
“when i asked both council people (jeanette something or other and some policeman also running)”
Er, my redneck brother, I think you may be referring to Jennette Rishell, and Jackson Miller (who is a PWC Police Officer), neither of which were running for council. They were running to be your delegate. Jackson Miller won. Jackson Miller was instrumental in dragging illegal immigration and over crowding to the forefront of the Manassas City Council agenda. Also, if you look at the legistlation introduced by Delegate Miller, most of it involves combatting illegal immigration.
To be honest with you I don’t care what they were running for as it’s obvious that they weren’t going to do anything about it either through choice or circumstance. I have no respect for any of those people because they have let this town get into this kind of condition. I applaud Mr. Miller as you say for his introduced legislation but we all know that it will go nowhere. Class action lawsuits and/or mass demonstrations will be the only way to clean this town up of the illegal laborers who have called this home. The more publicity this town gets for failing to control this problem the better. The one thing they dread is publicity. Herndon got plenty of it and look what happened there because of it.
“To be honest with you I don’t care what they were running for as it’s obvious that they weren’t going to do anything about it either through choice or circumstance.”
And to be honest with you, you appear to be a little under-informed, and a little naieve about the way things work. Class Action suits and demonstrations are what the Zapatista’s and the Woodbridge Wrokers party do. THese have only a limited impact. All flash, no bang. Legislation is the power. I would encourage you to look into the legislation put forth by Miller, and others in Richmond that will go a long way towards making Virginia a place where illegals will find it harder and harder to live.
I am concerned that this isn’t the first time illegals have been caught on the Marine Corp Base. It’s scary to think that a potntial terroist has access to our military bases. Just be a constuction worker and your in.
Sorry about the spelling.
I’ve stayed in the City because of the excellent schools. Fortunately I have no children in elementarty school, but from what I hear they have become something out of the worst urban poverty slum, and something I suspect many on Council have never encountered (thank-you Coiuncilman Harrover for having your kids in our schools). The Federal law says the schools must accept anyone “living” in the community. Does it say they have to attend a schoiol? Can we have a non-English speaking school? We must enforce zoning and develop other means to rid ourselves of three “families” with sixteen kids (none of whom speak english) from the community.
Now that I-66 is fixed in Gainesville maybe I need to join Fenian. I too must protect my family from gangs (can anyone say we don’t have a large MS-13 contingent with a straight face), and from loosing the equity we have in our home. Here’s the paradox; if I leave who buys my home - most likely several “families” with lots of children and many construction vehicles, who will little in taxes, require services far beyond what should be reasonably expected, and will rent rooms to make a little extra tax free. The result; a death spiral for the City; lower property values and higher taxes. Hopefully I’ll be brave and stay the course with SL.
The law abiding tax paying citizens of Manassas deserve action now!
Interested in the county’s study on the cost of
iilegal immigration that appeared in today’s MJM -
but it appears staff not only punted but shanked it
in the process.
The statement that the “cost is outweighed by the
economic benefit” flies in the face of studies done by
a number of economist. Scholars note that the state and
federal government might benefit somewhat through
social security payments and payroll taxes that will
never be refunded, but LOCAL governments don’t
have increased revenue to balance increased cost -
especially in schools. (Ex: The Manassas City FY2007
ESOL Program Plan calls for a net cost of of over
$1,200,00).
I agree with Wally Covington - the FEDS should pick
up a good chunk of this cost to local government -
controlling immigration is primarily a Federal
responsibility that they have neglected and failed at
for years.
The County study was flawed from the very beginning. Did they inquire how other groups conducted studies and gathered information on the cost of illegals? It doesn’t seem like they did. Other Cities have come up with more comprehensive data on this subject so how come the County can’t?
In Manassas City, Councilman Steve Smith recently said that there were 23% LEGAL immigrants in the city. If the school system has 52% minority, and we presume that 5% to 10% are OTHER than Hispanic, that leaves between 19% and 24% that are here ILLEGALLY. If it cost three times as much to educate an ESOL student the numbers are between $1,083,000 and $1,368,000, THESE FIGURES ARE AT ONLY ONE SCHOOL, not all of them. I’ve heard that that Manassas schools lump ESOL programs in with the special education programs, so we really don’t know the true cost of illegal immigration on our schools.
This also does not include new Spanish textbooks, Spanish and English textbooks that combine both languages, translators, information sent home in English and Spanish, Free lunch program, additional space need to house these extra students.
This is only one aspect of the costs to the City and County. Others include welfare to the illegals Anchor babies. Free medical care at our Hospitals. Higher insurance premiums for Americans because illegals don’t have any. I could go on and on.
BTW- why don’t we ever find out which construction companies are hiring these illegals? Never heard who it was at Dulles Airport or the other raid on Quantico.
I sit here and read all these comments that are so inaccurate it is funny. I definately belive we have a MAJOR problem with illegal hispanics, but it will not be fixed by adding wrong information. I am also tired of people of my heritage making us look bad and all of us being generalized. I read about complaints of many families in one residence. How does anyone know whether they are one family of more? Do you know if they are related? Do you even know about the supreme court cases that states what a family is? This is precisely the issue that got the City in trouble with HUD. If the council had just let the program that was working alone, and I know it was working for a fact, then the employees would be still providing some kind of relief to the citizens. There is an old saying, be careful what you ask for, because you just may get it! The illegals are winning now and it is mainly because the citizens kept pushing and pushing and pushing until the council made an absolutely stupid law that everyone knew wasn’t legal and tried to tamper with the definition of “family”. Citizens of Manassas have no one to blame but themselves for what is being enforced by employees now. In addition, the city does not determine how many people can live in a house, only state law does that. And the law is very lax. After HUD gets done with the city then Herndon will be next with some of their laws. If you don’t know what you are writing about then you should just keep your fingers off the keyboard.
An interesting piece on the WaPo website late this
afternoon - Feds have a program in the LA area that
is focused on catching criminal illegal immigrants
- over 750 so far - including rapist and drug lords -
it is called “Operation: Return to Sender”. We need to
push to have the Feds do something like this in Manassas.
E-mail Congressman Wolf and our two Senators and
demand it!
Regarding the social security payments that illegal aliens make, the totalization agreement with Mexico will allow Mexicans who worked in the US, illegally or not, to claim social security.
Hispanic,
I have some questions for you.
Given what you have posted, how should the City go about attempting to end overcrowding? You say the existing law was fine, but how well was it working if it did not have positive results? Should we just put our heads in the sand and allow the problem to continue? Being proactive on all criminal activity is a positive of the City and in fact is needed for the well-being of not just the City, but the Citizens of the City as well.
What should we do about the number of illegals that drive without a driver’s license? Many pro illegal immigrant groups demand not only the Federal Government end attempts to round up illegals, but to provide amnesty for those illegals? How does that attitude match up with the values and ethics of hispanics on a whole? To me it seems like these groups are doing more harm than good, since they turn a blind eye to all criminal activity on the part of illegal hispanics(see today’s Washington Times for an article on a story from Baltimore, MD).
Some of these groups go so far as to attack DUI check points since illegals who are stopped in the course of the check points will be asked for ID. Is that good for public safety? Should America just end all law enforcement just to please these groups?
“Should America just end all law enforcement just to please these groups?”
They probably just want it like back home, where if you get pulled over you just pay a “mordita” and be on your way.
Dear citizen,
All the points you bring up ar valid. But have nothing to do with overcrowding. Even if the houses arn’t overcowded, they are still driving w/out a licenses and so on. Whether the program the city had was working or not is up to interpertation. I know, because I did research, the idea was to make homes safer and that is what the program did. Don’t blame the city or the families because state laws allow 16 or more people to live in a house, that is what the city had to work with and that is what they were doing, but to tell families that they can’t live together is WRONG. What would you do if the city told you your sister and her children could not come live with you and your family because her husband was killed or they got a divorce. Even if the house would not be overcrowded by national standards. I don’t have all the answers, but I do know that what the city council did was wrong by telling families you can not live together. I do not think what they did should be penalized by the federal government especially since they are the cause of the problem. And these “do good” groups are not doing the hispaic culture any favors either. I believe I am of pretty much the same opinion as you are, just believe there is a better way to go about it than was done.
The council adopted the same standard for cosanguinity as is currently practiced in the Department of Defense for housing military personnel and their dependents, and has been for years. If the ordinance was so bad and so onerous on families who are just trying to do the right thing, why haven’t we heard any complaints about on-post housing on military installations? Has anyone accused the Department of Defense of having a racist standard for military housing?
The only ones raising a stink about this were the ones who have been contintually abusing the latitude built in to the previous standard, and who risked getting cracked down on. Defending those who provide housing to extended relatives and unrelated persons to the point where they try to stuff sixteen people into a three bedroom house is utterly insane. How much PC kool-aid must one consume in order to believe that some important public interest is protected by allowing such gross overcrowding?
That ordinance made sense then, and it makes sense now, despite the inanities of the overcrowding apologists who try to make that legislation into something it was not. I haven’t heard any constructive input from any of the ordinance’s detractors, only a clear desire on their part to impede any attempt to crack down on overcrowding that presents legitimate health, sanitation, public infrastructure, safety and quality of life concerns. If that ordinance is so terribly bad, what’s the alternative other than to do nothing?
That’s right, we haven’t heard one single idea from the overcrowding apologists.
Googled “Operation Return To Sender” and learned
it is a Federal program focused on finding, jailing,
and deporting illegal immigrant criminals. Not sure
why Manassas hasn’t been selected as a location-
I think we are a natural - but will investigate.
While we may have our differences, I find it difficult
to believe anyone would not support getting
convicted criminals off the street.
Hispanic,
Don’t complain about a possible solution and then not come up with a new idea. Talk does nothing to solve the problem. Action is needed, and anything that will help keep illegals out of the City is fine with me.
It is pretty obvious in many situations that multiple families are living in a single family home.
Did Ya Know:
“Although the Illegal Immigration and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA) of 1996 provied new authority for empowering local law enforcement agencies to enforce immigration law provisions against aliens illegally in the country, local police were never powerless to act on immigration law violations before adoption of that legislation. Local police departments have always had the ability to collaborate with the INS in enforcement operations. An example was local cooperation with the INS and the FBI in locating and interviewing foreign students from Middle Eastern countries following the September 11 terrorist attacks.
In addition, Section 274(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), as amended in 1986, authorizes “…all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws,” to arrest persons for smuggling, harboring or transporting illegal aliens. Furthermore, federal courts had repeatedly affirmed since 1984 that local police may inquire into immigration violations in the course of a routine stop (see e.g., U.S. v. Salinas-Calderon).
In 2002, the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) issued an extremely important legal opinion explaining that state and local police officers have the inherent authority to arrest illegal aliens and transfer them to federal custody, regardless of whether the aliens have committed criminal or civil violations of immigration law. U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft announced the conclusion of that OLC opinion in June 2002. However, the full opinion was only made available to the public as a result of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit. The local arrest authority recognized in this opinion is a critical component of immigration enforcement. Read the full opinion (PDF).”
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0342
EVERY tool at our disposal!
The problem, Informer, is that the INS refused to hold up their end of that. Allow me to give you an example, as it was related to me:
A friend of mine, who happened to be a magistrate of a county within our region, gave me an example some years ago of the cooperation which local law enforcement was getting from the INS. One night while on duty, the Sheriff’s Department attempted to turn over a van-load of illegal aliens that had been picked up when they had been discovered after having committed a traffic violation. They notified the INS and asked them what they should do with them (hold them for pick-up, processing, whatever)…the INS told them to let them go; they didn’t have anybody to send so they weren’t interested. Perhaps this ICE training of our local police will alleviate this problem…and Homeland Security might be more interested.
Sorry…I mean Observer.
Cheney: I would be more sympathetic to your argument if we had “numerous” examples out there in the public record of such local actions that were attempted and failed. I don’t remember reading about any.
As it stands now, what we DO have is Manassas being cited as the destination of choice of a van load of illegals headed here from Ohio — this just last year — in a Washington Times article — and local PD acknowledging that fact, as well as the statement there was nothing they could do.
So yes, let’s get this ICE training done. But please, let’s not continue to hear or obfuscate the fact that such actions are constrained to the “worst of the worse” by law. That simply is not the case.
The current proposal for the Section 287(g) program is in fact for “the worst of the worst” and probably wouldn’t affect how we might have handled those folks in the van. If implemented as planned, unless they end up in jail, there’s about zero chance they would be processed for deportation. Thanks to the fear displayed by Chiefs Deane, Skinner and Evans for that.
In time, and with experience in the program through the Adult Detention Center, that could change. What can help make that change happen faster would be for citizens to keep the pressure up and to make a big stink when we see future incidents like that one. ICE training for jail personnel is a good first step that will absolutely make a difference, but it’s not going to fix everything.
Just think of the Section 287(g) program as a first down. We got about 80 yards to go.
Observer, there ARE numerous examples of that from over the years. That was just one of many such anecdotes…and why THAT particular local law enforcement agency decided it was pointless to bother. I’m sure that others have had the same experience and that the same attitude has evolved over time. You can quote the law all day long, but if it’s not enforced it’s meaningless.
It’s great that you all think this great ordinance hurt no one but the illegals, but it didn’t. This ordinace broke up LEGAL families also. So wake up and smell the roses. I remember one councilmember saying that if his family needed a place to stay in an emergency that he would let them move in even if it ment them being overcrowded. I guess it is all right if you are part of the all moral white population of Manassas. I guess the “good ole boy network” is alive and well in Manassas. I can’t wait for some City Official to come knocking at your door at 8 pm at night and wanting to come in and measure your rooms and go through your house.
By theway, I do not see violating someones constitutional rights as a POSSIBLE SOLUTION!
Well well the truth finally comes out hispanic.
Citizen,
Not sure what you mean, “the truth finally comes out”. I am sure I know more about this situation than you could ever imagine. I never said something doesn’t need to be done. The truth is we ( I say “we” because I am a citizen and I vote, REPUBLICAN) need to take charge in a way that does not violate the laws of the United States. I also said I do not believe that the City intentionally violated anyones constitutional rights, but this ordinace did. I hope our polititions wake up and secure the borders, send home all illegals who have been convicted of ANY felony, work out a soution for the ones that are here illegally and can show that they have lived here without committing any crimes and have worked without living off mine and your tax dollars. If you think that if all illegal hispanics packed up an moved home and our economy wouldn’t be hurt, then you have your head stuck up your a**. Sorry, I just call it the way I see it. I know that the city’s program pointed out a lot of good information to families that were living and sleping in unsafe bedrooms and who used that information to make changes in the way that they were living. But I notice that you ignored my question to you if the city told you that you couldn’t have your neices and/or nephews living with you even if your house wasn’t overcrowded, what ould you do? I believe you would do the same thing as any good family man and fight the city. It is funny how today we say that ther is less emphasis on family valuse and here we have a group of people who take care of their family and we put them down for that, seems like maybe citizenofmanassas that as long as your neighbors are white then you could care, but put a hispanic family next to you and all hell breaks loose. I don’t know you so I do not like to generalize, but maybe you should wake up, look in the mirror, and ask yourself if you are racist. Also, I do not think that any hispanics have ever committed any terrorist acts against us, in fact I believe the last domistic terorist act was committed by you guessed it, a white american! I believe we should be more focused on securing the borders which I am all for. I agree with you and everyone else on here about the problems, we just disagree on how they should and shouldn’t be addressed. Please don’t pretend that you know me or know what I am about. I am willing to put my background up against yours anyday. I served my country, I travel everyday to DC to work so my wife dosen’t have to work and can home school our children, and obey all laws including the occupancy limit of my house as set by the Commonwealth of Virginia and I have never had any city official knock on my door wanting to measure my bedrooms or tell me I need to get my cars off the grass or pick up my trash, so I hope that you are not generalizing me.
- Dear Hispanic, with all due respect, we are trying to
protect families and the quality of life in Manassas -
with zero help from the “hispanic community”. It
seems too many are pushing to make us like the dirty
nasty places hispanic’s flee. I’ve traveled
in Mexico and Central America outside the tourist
areas and it is miserable - I understand why you
leave, but why do you come here and try to make
Manassas like those areas? You talk about how we should
respect you and, yet, you give us none. Manassas
citizens are the victims of the tidal wave of
illegal immigration, not vice versa.
Perhaps we should learn from Mexico on how to
treat illegal immigrants - read “Migrants Stream
Into South Mexico” in the 1-28-2007 New York Times
- where other hispanics are beaten, raped, and
robbed by the Mexican police on a regular basis.
But we don’t do that here because we believe in
common decency and the rule of law - you folks
might try it sometime.
Big Dog, I must disagree with your last comment in that you address it to someone (”Hispanic, but not illegal!”) who is clearly as concerned with the illegal alien problem as the rest of us citizens. I expect that there are many like him who, just as the Europeans, Asians, and other groups who immigrated here legally, would like to see our borders secured just as much as you would, and are willing to vote and work toward that end. This has become an emotionally charged issue and we mustn’t forget that those Hispanics who ARE here legally, living and working within the law, have far more to lose than the rest of us by the difficulties and tensions created by the illegal population because, unfortunately, too many people tar them with the same brush. This is grossly unfair.
AWCheney, Sunday’s WaPo Prince William section
contains two articles germane to this discussion -
“Manassas School Budget Bump Reflects Demographics”
and “Manassas Board Takes On a ‘No Child’ Mandate”.
Common sense, not PC police, would tell us that we
should be able to determine who is illegal and then
be able to collect from the Feds the amount needed
to educate those children. Washington, by neglect,
has permitted massive illegal immigration, and they
should make local communities whole.
I certainly have no problem with legal immigrants,
but do have a major problem with the huge negative
impact of illegal immigration on our civic fabric.
Hispanic,
Funny, how you resort to the “R” word. Sorry, but that liberal rant stuff does not work with me. That is only used when folks have nothing left to defend their position, and so they have to resort to name calling in hopes of changing the topic. I follow the law, and expect others to do the same. The City says I have to buy a sticker for my car, which I do. I don’t agree with it, but I buy it to stay within the law. If I see someone breaking the law, I will call the police, and have done so a few times with my, to use your words again, “WHITE” neighbors. There is the rule of law that makes this Nation great, and if we do not follow it, there goes the Country. It seems the illegals who have already broken at least one law(entering the country illegally) do not agree with that.
And, I would venture to say that illegals terrorize us plenty, or do you have your head up your A$$?? Do you keep up with the National news? There are plenty of examples of illegals committing crimes. I think our economy would do just fine without illegals. It is estimated 1/3 of the entire DC area population is made up of illegals. Picture 1/3 less population.
Law enforcement rounds up thousands of criminals all around the Country, they do not throw up their hands and say well we just can’t do it, so why should that policy not be used for illegals?
Citizen and big dog,
you have made my point for me. who said I immigrated here. I am as american as you as I was BORN here. Yes, I believe EVERYONE should follow the law, that includes the government. If the City feels it did nothing wrong, then why was it so quick to change the law back. You need to read my posts clearly before you make broad statements. I did not use the R word as a name calling attempt but rather as a question that you need to ask yourself. I simply said may be you should look in the mirror and make sure you are not being racist. I love my country, I was born here, and I served for it, did you? I have never said something doesn’t need to be done, but I have seen what happens when white americans generalize all hispanics the same. We are not all illegal, in fact I would be willing to say most aren’t, but I agree far too many are, and the ones that are illegal, they are not all criminals. I hope my point of view has made the readers of this blog and yourself think for a minute the next time you are standing in line next to your hispanic neighbor, maybe he is just an ordinary citizen like me. In reference to your cooment about trash and mexico, have you taken a ride through Manassas Park lately. The houses that are being repaired/rehabbed are owned by mostly hispanic owners. I would be willing to bet you a lunch that if you check you local zoing inspectors records that the houses with the most confirmed violations of trash, inoperable vehicles and such are not hispanic, but rather white and black citizens. The hispanic community for the most part upgrade their housing not let it fall into disrepair. I just hope that we can come up with a solution that does not hurt law abiding citizens like me and you. I apologize if I have upset anyone, but I want to make sure both sides are put out on the table.
Big Dog,
I went back and reread your post, and I must say, you clearly have some racist overtones in your message, and I do not say that lightly. Such as “you folks might try it sometime”. Who the hell is you folks? You understand why I leave!? I never said I left anywhere, again you generalize. Also, I don’t think I ever asked you to respect me, you don’t even know me. And as far as me respecting you, I don’t know you so how can I respect you. Rather than putting me down, why not try to learn a little about the hispanic culture and you might learn a little.
Hispanic,
Where did I write all hispanics are illegal? Where did I write I was against all hispanics? You say I should look in the mirror for what? If as you say you are also against illegal immigration as I have said, would that statement also apply to you too? Where did I say I only wanted to call the police on hispanics for housing violations? In fact I think, I said I will call the police on anyone who might be breaking the law. Based on that statement, how did you arrive at your opinion, I would only call the police on hispanics?
The City leadership caved into pressure from people who live outside the City. I would have kept the policy as it is clear HUD did not have a case based on their actions. If someone entered into the Country illegally, they have committed a crime. So, your statement that all illegals are not criminals is wrong.
Citizen,
My my aren’t we testy today. Do you have a guilty conscience? You really SHOULD READ THE POSTS FULLY. I never said you were against hispanics. I said, I’ve seen what happens when white americans generalize all hispanics, but if the shoe fits, wear it! I never said you only call housing violations on hispanics or that you said all hispanics are illegal. It really seems you have a guilty conscience and you are trying to justify your irresponsible beliefs. Please, read what I write fully and quit trying to justify those irresponsible beliefs. I know and everyone else knows that if your family needed assistance you would provide it even if it ment overcrowding your house. And if you wouldn’t then that really says alot for you and maybe what is wrong with family values today. You seem like you are an educated man SO PUT SOME OF THAT EDUCATION TO WORK AND READ, UNDERSTAND, THINK, THEN WRITE. technically, you are wrong about entering the country illegally. It is not a criminal charge but rather a civil charge. But I agree it should be a criminal charge. But what I ment when I said all illegals aren’t criminals is that they aren’t all out committing crimes. I think most people with half a brain knew what I ment, I hope you knew. I really hope that one day our government gets a handle on this problem, which in my belief is second only to terrorism, so people like you will feel better about yourselves.
Citizen,
I did some research which I forgot to post. The City was wrong with the new definition of family. Read the 1977 US Supreme Court case Moore v. City of East Cleveland which struck down a similar ordinance. “In their opinion the restrictive definition of “family” violated the substantive due process of the Constitution, noting that the protection of family relationships extended beyond the nuclear family. In his decision, Justice Lewis Powell, Jr. wrote, “The tradition of uncles, aunts, cousins, and especially grandparents sharing a household along with parents and children has roots equally venerable and equally deserving of constitutional recognition.” And with your education even you know that the US Supreme Court IS THE LAW OF THE LAND. As much as I hate to admit, because I really do despise the ACLU, I think they did the right thing in this instance. And before you accuse me, Yes, I still believe there is a problem that needs to be fixed. And since you wanted a suggestion mine would be a statewide amendment to the International Building Code that further reduces the number allowed to live in a house based on square footage, not family relationship. The current state code is far to liberal. There is no way 16 or more people should be allowed to live in a townhouse and I know the City has some that allow that many.
Hispanic,
The following was taken from your post of 01/28/07…….
seems like maybe citizenofmanassas that as long as your neighbors are white then you could care, but put a hispanic family next to you and all hell breaks loose. I don’t know you so I do not like to generalize, but maybe you should wake up, look in the mirror, and ask yourself if you are racist.
That statement seems to be directed at me only, not to people in general. Besides, how do you know I am white? I don’t think I have ever posted what my race is. I might be a Native American, Asian or whatever.
I believe you are the one that has issues. You accuse people of being racist, and then when comforted you change your tune. I would expect you to read more and post less, rather then keep going back on what you have posted. If you want people to understand your point of view, write it in a way people can understand. I have no quilt whatsoever, but you can keep playing the liberal tactics if you like, but they will not work here. Lets see, you have used the “R” word, and now guilt.And using all caps is a nice touch. Scream much do you? As I have already posted, I don’t care who is breaking the law, I will call the police.
You have stated you are against illegal immigration, and I have said the same. How does that make my views are irresponsible, but not yours?
I would add that at one time the Supreme Court up held slavery as a legal institution. Who is to say the current Court would just follow what the court said in 1977?
The building code and the fire code were crafted
to require safe practices - not regulate over
crowding. Ex: sixteen people are permitted in a residence
if they have adequate egress if a fire starts. Can they
vacate the structure in a reasonable time? There
may be too many cars on the road, but the law
doesn’t address too many vehicles - it is about
speed limits, etc..
(Interesting piece on the Slate site yesterday
that compared the challenges of illegal immigration
with the Iraq war - in both cases we seem to be
in a classic damned if we do - damned if we don’t).
But like Iraq, we simply aren’t in a position to walk
away without leaving a huge problem that will
continue to damage our nation. My concern with
illegal immigration isn’t to lambast any group, but
to perserve the civic fabric of our community- schools,
the legal system, medical care - and have a safety net
for all our citizens - it is starting to unravel under
the stress.
Would add, that while I know you get what you get on
a blog, I was still surprised to be called a “racist” - have
spent most of my long life being more often labeled a
“bleeding heart do-gooder “. Anyway, the country
and the net are still free, and may we all give thanks
for that.
“Also, I do not think that any hispanics have ever committed any terrorist acts against us, in fact I believe the last domistic terorist act was committed by you guessed it, a white american!”
___________________________________________
Just to correct the above statement, please see http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/usmrtnzflrs1001indt.pdf
otherwise known as U.S. v. Luis A. Martinez-Flores, wherein we learn that two of the 9/11 hijackers were aided and abetted in securing fraudulent Virginia IDs by illegal immigrant day laborers who routinely congregate in a 7-Eleven parking lot in Falls Church, VA.
These IDs were necessary to board the fatal flights.
This “service” is widely known to be available among illegal immigrant day laborers.
We are well beyond a simple immigration problem. This is a very serious public safety problem.
Mi amigos - also know that the City of Manssas has
long encouraged citizens from the hispanic community
to apply for positions on boards and commissions
but with few takers.
The Parks and Recreation Comm. being an exception -
two new hispanic members helped resolve the
problem of hispanic soccer teams suddenly appearing at
fields without reservations (this is needed since we,
like most of N. Va., are short on locations to meet
growing demand). A compromise was worked out.
The point is — Be part of a solution and not part of
a problem.
Forgot to add - a short application form is located
at the city clerk’s office at Manassas City Hall.
You can see the openings list at that location, on
cable television, an on the city web site.
Number of hispanic citizens that have applied and
been rejected in the past decade — zero.
Big Dog,
You are completely wrong about the building code. Part III of the Virginia Uniform Building Code Section 404 specifically deals with overcrwding residential structures. In addition, State law allows for the Statewide Fire Prevention Code to be amended locally. The City amended the local fire code to address residential overcrowding. That is why the City of Manassas Fire Marshal Office enforces residential overcrowding. I did a lot of research on this subject.
Also, Sir I never called anyone a racist. That would be an irresponsible comment since I do not know you. I believe what I said was maybe you should look in the mirror and ask your self if you are. If you took it that way or I incorrectly wrote what I ment to write, then I sincerly apologize. But one good thing has come from this. People are talking. I want to say I again, I agree with almost everything that has been said, less and except the ordinance that the city crafted the prohibited certain family members from living together. I fully admit I have a huge problem with the government telling me which family members can live with me and which can’t. I wish I could remember which councilmemebr made the comment about his family needing space and that he would let them even if it ment that his house was overcrowded. I do know it was said, just not who said it.
I also agree that the ispanic community does not involve itself enough into the community. I think a lot of it is because of fear of the unknown.
I apologize if I offended anyone but i do see alot of misinformation going out that if you are going to have an opinion, you should have an informed opinion. I actually did a research paper on this subject for one of my college courses that I am taking and I believe that I gained a lot of knowledge about this subject through my request for information from the City and reading. I thank everyone for taking the time to discuss the problem.