That’s all I was saying – I’m just worried about the underlying issue. I don’t care about all this …..”so and so” accused me of something…”so and so” lied or got it wrong…..”so and so” hurt my feelings stuff that sometimes tends to fill these threads. I don’t care to participate in the personal, back and forth attacks. I’m just trying to figure out how this problem can be fixed.

I’d like to hear from someone in charge of credentials at the 51st District convention to please explain what process will be in place to make sure there is clean, legal seating of delegates that takes place and those not eligible to be registered voters are NOT allowed to vote.

Spoken like a real liberal.”"”

Spoken like a real reader of BVBL, where, indeed, the unsubstantiated stuff gets corrected. We saw an example of it today.

That feeling is in many cases mutual. Even most posters on BVBL, probably not a group that is very accepting of the gay lifestyle, voted to go with the “homo” instead of with the “terrorist” if Faisal is nominated.

“”"a man being savaged for associations with Islamicists”"”

It is COMPLETELY REASONABLE, patriotic and ecumenical to savage Faisal Gill for his association with Islamists such as Abdurahman Alamoud and Abdullah Al-Arian. Wikipedia states the following: “Islamism is a term used to denote a set of political ideologies holding that Islam is a political system not just a religion. Islamism holds that Islamic law (sharia) must be the basis for all statutory law of society; that Muslims must return to the original teachings and the early models of Islam; and that western military, economic, political, social, or cultural influence on the Muslim world is against Islam.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist

Islamism is incompatible with either conservative or liberal ideologies. Persons who argue otherwise are at best chumps and suckers, the kind of person who Stalin once called “useful idiots.”

“”"who chooses to educate his own children outside of madrassas.”"”

Whoop de doo.

“”"It is difficult to imagine that an Islamicist would expose his own young children to Catholicism or any other form of Chrisianity in a denominational school.”"”

The problem is Gill and his law partner Asim Ghafoor’s employment by Islamists such as Abdurahman Alamoudi and al-Haramain.

“”"The simple fact is that Julie’s most vigorous supporters here don’t give a tinker’s dam as to whether they win “dirty,” relying mainly upon the smears of: (1) a Democrat whose comments border, at best, on racism; “”"”

James Young is a misogynist then. If opposing Alamoudi’s former chief lobbyist makes one a racist then surely opposing Julie makes one a misogynist.

“”"a host who is being sued (so far, successfully, as the case was not dismissed out of hand) “”"

Faisal is litigious. That does not make Faisal’s critics incorrect. If anything it makes us more correct, since litigious plaintiffs such as CAIR often have something to hide.

“”"it bodes well for Faisal.”"”

Still chug-a-lugging that Faisal kool-aid, I see. Do you actually believe that you are going to put this guy over in November? Nothing bodes well for Faisal’s political ambitions.

“”"completely consistent with his attack mode against anyone who dares to support Faisal Gill.”"”

“Dares?” And this is the guy who you think will win in November? Someone whose own supporters think of themselves as daring to support him?

He has apologized, so this isn’t about him, but about your judgment. He wrote a post the entire message of which was that Tom had written a never-before-seen clause surrupticiously into the call in order that he and Gill would conspire together to commit voter fraud. The entire basis for that was false, as the clause was actually IN the RPV.

Your statement is like CBS’s justification for using forged documents against Bush in 2004 — that the documents were “fake, but accurate”. That got a producer fired, and Dan Rather retired.

Jonathan Mark said on 18 May 2007 at 2:39 pm:
“The unsubstantiated stuff gets corrected. The truth does not get corrected. Just like in the print media.”

Spoken like a real liberal. In real life, the unsubstantiated (read made-up) stuff doesn’t GET printed. When someone regularly prints unsubstantiated stuff, a lot of it never gets corrected because no one has time to correct every single error. After you’ve done 5 or 6 “unsubstantiated” things, your ability to be “trusted” is pretty much shot.

But for the democrats, they love to just make stuff up again and again, and figure that whatever doesn’t get laughed off the stage might actually stick. I guess I could make up a dozen charges about any candidate, and I might get lucky and hit one they can’t immediately refute, but that’s hardly “truth”, or anything like what the “print media” does.

Believe it or not, in print, even on the opinion pages, any statement of fact has to be backed up. Quotes need to be sourced, statements of fact need to have references. The “I’ve heard it somewhere” trick doesn’t wear well in the real world.

John Light said on 18 May 2007 at 3:10 pm:
Amazing, he is a member of a 2 person law-firm with one of the members OPENLY supporting/representing terrorist organizations and we are NOT to question him on his terrorist ties???

There are more than two people in his firm, and the information about his partner are allegations, not facts. I would imagine that his partner would strongly defend himself against this if he cared a whit what you thought of him. I’ve never met the man so I can’t vouch for or against him, but since I’m sure you have never met the man you ought to think twice about what your faith teaches you about accusing others of wrongdoing without direct knowledge.

He’s not running for office, he’s not a public figure, so you also might think about the much lower bar the courts set for libel and slander in that instance.

John Light said on 18 May 2007 at 3:14 pm:
“It’s my understanding that Paul Nichols, a local attorney, is thinking about running as a Dem. This guy is a SHARK in the courtroom and will have a FIELD day with Faisal.”

John, I am still guessing you have little actual experience talking with Gill, so your opinion on this matter is useless. However, to the degree he’s a “shark”, I doubt Julie Lucas is well-trained to deal with such a candidate.

Faisal is a graduate of law school, a JAG in the military, and has a wealth of experience in government. While I only know the two from listening to them speak to the committee and at a kickoff, Gill is the better of the two in that regard. This is NOT a comment on either candidate’s platforms or suitability for the position, I only mention it because you brought it up.

Jonathan Mark said on 18 May 2007 at 12:21 pm:
“This whole thing is about rounding up immigrants, possibly illegal ones, and getting them to vote at the convention even though they are not registered voters.”

This must be an example of one of those “unsubstantiated charges” that get corrected. And only JM could explain why given all immigrants aren’t allowed to vote he felt compelled to add “possibly illegal ones”. Is he suggesting that one of the candidates has a large hispanic outreach of some sort?

Wouldn’t it be great that the first thing these new people to the party learn is that we have integrity in our nominating processes in Prince Wiliam County.

It will also be a nice thing to let “new” people know that if you wait until the last minute to register to vote for an election, be prepared to produce the necessary documentation to prove your indentity, your residency, and your citizenship.

And as for “blatantly false statements,” let’s look at yours. “[Y]ou have been against her since day one of her entering politics with no justified reason why.” I don’t know where you get your information, but that is patently false. While I supported her opponent in her first race, there was a rather significant GOP split. Moreover, as Julie would probably confirm, I have told her that, if I knew then about her opponent what I know now, I would have supported Julie (her opponent was recommended to me by a respected co-worker, who knew her well). And criticizing her for her support for Buck Waters for the GOP nomination for Delegate against Scott Lingamfelter (which she has privately explained to me) is hardly “against her since day one of her entering politics;” most would simply call it a difference of opinion. I remember well her letters attacking me at the time, including her penchant for buying into every lie told to her by Hector Quintana and the rest of the tax advocate crowd, demonstrating highly questionable judgment, and her gratuitous attacks demonstrating utter ignorance of my record. I likewise remember well her childish attacks upon Scott for moving from Lake Ridge into the district and daring to run, as though her record of residency in Neabsco were much longer when she dared to put herself forward for public service. As for your suggestion of sexist motivation in my decision to support Faisal over Julie, that is patently nonsense. I suspect that people like Michele McQuigg, Demaris Miller, Ann Keast, and Mary Hill would find your statements as nonsensical as I do, as you probably would has you not suspended your reason to function in full attack mode.

And there is, of course, no comparison between a traitor who sends his children to Catholic schools — historically, plenty of traitors to their nations have been Catholic… and every other religion — and a man being savaged for associations with Islamicists who chooses to educate his own children outside of madrassas. It is difficult to imagine that an Islamicist would expose his own young children to Catholicism or any other form of Chrisianity in a denominational school.

The simple fact is that Julie’s most vigorous supporters here don’t give a tinker’s dam as to whether they win “dirty,” relying mainly upon the smears of: (1) a Democrat whose comments border, at best, on racism; and (2) a host who is being sued (so far, successfully, as the case was not dismissed out of hand) by someone represented by Faisal’s law firm. Heretofore, I would have expected better from you, your understandable loyalty to Julie notwithstanding. If your comment is the kind of nonsense that Julie’s supporters feel that they have to resort to in order to win the nomination, it bodes well for Faisal. And certainly, Julie deserves better.

As for the rest, I give Greg credit for admitting his error, rather than merely casting it down the “memory hole.” It would be even better if he would bother to read the source documents BEFORE launching an attack that is … completely consistent with his attack mode against anyone who dares to support Faisal Gill.

And it is certainly interesting to discover how many people who sometimes wax demagogic about the “big tent” want to close prematurely the flaps in contravention of the State Party Plan.

Faisal can kiss his enormous backside goodbye.

Thank you for acknowledging your error. I was hopeful that this was another mistake on your part, and not deliberate, and I fully accept your explanation that it was.

Please understand that, given the proximity of the language Tom had to the language you quoted above (on the same page, in the same section, 3 items down), and your assertion that you could not find the language in the party plan (when a search would find it easily), I did have some doubts that you could have missed it by accident.

I thank you also for linking this to the previous error you made regarding the party plan. You had, in prior cases not associated with Chapman/Gill, always been willing to admit error, which is good for all of us because we all make mistakes.

I guess it might be time for you to take a minute and read through the rest of the RPV plan just for future reference

Conventions are a great way to get new people registered and into the party. They require the candidates, staffs, and volunteers to canvass neighborhoods door by door, looking for people who can be convinced to give up a saturday to support them.

It is often the case that while doing so, you find people who are new to the area, or people who simply are NOT involved for whatever reason in politics, but can after a discussion of issues and concerns decide that a particular candidate is worthy of a morning’s work.

People DO get registered, and ARE brought into the party, through this process. It’s one of the good things about a convention.

Jim Young stated, rightly so, on a post that he has the fortunate pleasure to cherrypick (not his words) his court cases, thus securing his track record of never having lost a case. The same could be said of Faisal. He has the right and obligation to say, “You know what!!! I am no longer going to associate with a lawfirm that represents illegals and terrorists and I will go work for another or make my own firm.”

But then, that would mean taking the moral high road and for a guy who is “committed to spending $50,000 of his own money in this race”, taking ANYTHING with the word “moral” in it just won’t happen.

Hey Faisal, why don’t you just take your money and pay off all your speeding tickets and call it a day???

Further, your remark “questioning his patriotism” is much more suited to the democratic party than ours. That kind of support is something Lucas could use a lot less of. Sometimes people are unfairly judged by the people they hang around with, and your remarks are just the kind that can hurt candidates who don’t distance themselves appropriately.

“While I commend you for not being like Charles but actually DOING something and have done something for the Republican Party in the past”

I’m sure Jim thanks God every day he is not like me. Class comment there, Deacon.

Faisal has no regard for doing what is right and I SERIOUSLY question his patriotism to the United States. If ONLY he was running as a Democrat, the naysayers on the Right would see the light. Like Kopko, Faisal cannot be trusted to do what is right for the 51st and will in his own words, he is “not going to Richmond to make friends.” Faisal Gill, born fighting.

As a candidate for office Faisal Gill is a public figure. Just Google Faisal Gill and see how controversial and public Gill is.

Gill is also extremely litigious, perhaps because like CAIR he also has jihad-enabling in his past to hide. However, as a public figure Gill can only win a suit if there is reckless disregard of the facts. In this case Greg thought he knew what was in the RPV but did not know, perhaps because of oversight.

No harm, no foul, nothing more than meritless lawsuits and stay of deportation filings for illegal immigrants from Faisal Gill and Asim Ghafoor’s law firm.

How is the suit involving release of classified information about Asim Ghafoor and the Saudi al-Haramain foundation coming? Kind of a nice how-do-you-do for a candidate for a Republican nomination. Here is some suggested text for the http://gillfordelegate.com website:

“Elect Faisal Gill, law partner of Asim Ghafoor, who while representing one of his several Globally Designated Terrorist Organization clients was the subject of surveillance and is now suing.”

Why does Ghafoor keep representing illegal immigrants and U.S. Treasure Globally Designated Terrorist Organizations?

Ghafoor has a right to represent these people, but that doesn’t mean that Ghafoor’s law partner Gill has a right to be elected to public office without anyone complaining about it.

It is free country. We are right to complain about Gill to whoever will listen.

But the important point here is, once agan, he has initiated a very important discussion and what we as ordinary citizens can do to make things better. What could be more important than having a LEGAL, non-corrupt election? If the hard questions are not asked about integrity in the process, then this election will be open to all sorts of questions (and maybe legal proceedings) down the road.

I’m sad to say, we seem to be heading down an ugly path never before seen in Prince William County — a potentially illegitimate election.

For that reason alone any participation by unregistered voters in the convention will corrupt the results. This idea for allowing non-registered voters (i.e., felons) to participate in the convention ought to be a non-starter.