Prince William County Now An Illegal Alien Sanctuary
By Greg L | 24 May 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 59 Comments
Developing…
The Prince William County Police Department has adopted a policy that makes Prince William County the same sort of sanctuary for illegal aliens as had been the case in Virginia Beach. That policy was a contributing factor in the deaths of Tessa Tranchant (16) and Allison Kunhardt (17) by a drunken illegal alien by the name of Alfredo Ramos on the evening of March 30th, 2007.
When contacted, Chairman of the Prince William County Board of Supervisors Corey Stewart said he was not aware of the policy.
Stay tuned for updates…
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This should prove interesting: Do you think the Board of Supervisors will have the guts to fire someone, like either the Chief of Police or the County Executive (whoever was in the most senior position to put a stop to this), or will they try to claim that they have no authority or power over the police…or will they support them in this?
Seems to me to be yet another case where if there were an Countywide elected Chief Law Enforcement Officer who was willing to take a public stand and represent the interests of the ‘common folk’ (a.k.a. the voters) this debate might have a critically important, but thus far missing, element.
Oh that’s right, Prince William County has just such an office, its called Sheriff. However the current elected leader does not weigh in on this kind of political/law enforcement issue …. one more example where he appears to be MIA.
I think it is time for the voters in Prince William County to ‘trade-up’ and in the upcoming Republican Primary cast their vote for James J. Fotis for Sheriff.
Fotis has a demonstrated record of not being afraid to stand up against liberals as they try to advance their agenda — especially when their agenda decreases public safety!
www.fotisforsheriff.com
One more reason for change!
Oh give us a break IP!! Trying to hijack another thread??
The City of Houston had the same policy, until one of their officers was killed by an illegal. I’m hoping it does not take that to happen in PW before the police dept stops this silly policy.
No, this is a classic law and order / political issue. The politicans will make a decision (or not make a decision) and the result of that process is that the voters (and their loved ones) will either suffer or be better protected.
I think it is a perfect example of a situation that cries out desperately for leadership…. the people’s elected representative on law and order issues is the Sheriff. They can’t rely on the Chief of Police to respond to/represent their concerns.
Practically speaking, the Chief can’t go to far if he is expressing an opinion that puts him at odds with more powerful political higher ups. An elected Sheriff could chose to lead. The current one is not.
The new one, if its James J. Fotis, I believe will do a better job.
Oh, and one other thing, if the voters show that this kind of issue is important to them (through the voter turn out/election results) it will might just be a near real-time, hopefully irrefutable example of what the voters want and it might just have a positive/motivational impact on them.
There won’t be change unless the elected politicians get behind it.
How is this not relevant? Do you think someone else is gonna lead on this?
So Fotis is going to start sending deputies on patrol? That should go over real well with PWCPD.
We need to stop engaging with IP. IP is just looking for an excuse to bring up the name and get hits. Don’t feed the monster.
Did you miss what I typed… where did you get ‘deputies on patrol’ from what I said. This is a POLITICAL ISSUE; a political leader can help resolve it. Don’t you get that?
Did you really not get it or are you just trying to mis-represent what I said?
Anon - with all due respect, wouldn’t you agree that it has been ‘politics as usual’ that has helped get us into the problem we now face regarding illegal immigration?
Don’t you think that it is going to take political action and political LEADERS who are more willing to address the issues honestly than have past politicans been, in order to solve these problems?
If not, how do you see change occuring on this ever increasingly ‘hot-button’ issue.
See, your wrong! I wrote that whole statement above and never even referred to the fact that a new, more active, more involved, conservative Sheriff, like Jim Fotis, might be part of the solution.
oops…
What is the policy? Certainly there has to be a written copy.
This is typical blog blather — racing to conclusions without
facts.
IF it true, then action needs to be taken - but don’t make an
arrest, hold a kangaroo internet court and hang someone
on rumours.
I believe the PCPD is unwilling to share that information. Greg can expound on that. The worst part about this is, the Chief did this recently
Didn’t the Chief do this (it became public) right after it was reported that other law enforcement entities were getting their people entered into training so they could be certified to take action against criminal/illegal aliens?
I seem to remember seeing a post by Greg on that topic.
Yeah, here it is, Greg reported on this on May 16th:
Section 287(g) Update
By Greg L | 16 May 2007 | PWC Politics, Manassas Politics, Illegal Aliens | 2 Comments
This week officers from the Shenandoah County Sheriff’s Department, the Prince William County Regional Detention Center, and the Herndon Police Department started their training under the Section 287(g) Program. In five weeks, these law enforcement officers will be able to act as ICE agents and process for deportation any illegal aliens they encounter during the course of their normal duties who have committed any number of specified crimes, as defined in their department’s agreements with the Department of Homeland Security. By early summer, according to Manassas Police Chief Skinner, we should be seeing some results. They cannot come too quickly.
What can we expect to see happen? CNS News has an article today that talks a little about what this program has done in other jurisdictions. The results so far look rather promising:
Since Mecklenburg [County, North Carolina] started the program, 3,490 foreign-born individuals have been checked against the federal identification system, according to county records. Of these, 1,898 have been moved to removal proceedings…
Rush said the removal process is initiated in the jail system, although the actual deportation phase falls under ICE, which “buses out” anywhere from 40 to 130 people each week from the country to federal holding facilities.
In Arizona, the removal of criminal aliens into federal custody has been streamlined to the point where the state has saved $10.2 million in incarceration costs since 2005, Katie Decker, a spokeswoman with the state’s department of corrections, said in an interview.
Before the program was initiated, ICE agents would sometimes take up to three months to determine whether a criminal should be taken into federal custody for immigration violations, she said. Now, the prison system’s intake facilities have a separate section exclusively devoted to ICE operations, expediting the process considerably…
“It’s ironic — if we could just put the criminal aliens into the federal system where they belong, we would no longer have such an issue with funding,” she said.
The City of Manassas is currently negotiating a Memorandum of Understanding with ICE which should be completed within the next sixty days. The Prince William County Police Department is not pursuing an MOU, and the Board of Supervisors has only directed that the Adult Detention Center participate in the program. Perhaps with some experience from the ADC, the county police department will be more eager to take advantage of this program. I expect that if we see these kinds of results, they will.
Manassas Park refuses to discuss the program. That might have to change, soon.
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2 Comments
Quiet Man said on 16 May 2007 at 1:56 pm:
This seems to be a potentially important political/law enforcement related issue that has the ability to directly affect the lives, safety and quality of life of many of the residents (voters) in Prince William County (as well as those in the smaller ’sub’ jurisdictions: Manassas, Manassas Park, Haymarket, etc.)
This is clearly a hot-button politically influenced law and order issue. Prince William County has an elected Sheriff, who has influence and/or sway over the entire county and all the smaller law enforcement entities within the County.
The current Sheriff he has been in office for nearly four years, he is in a position such that he could have weighed in with considerable (perhaps unmatched) strength on this issue… BUT from all I can tell he has chosen to not get involved.
The Sheriff is elected to represent those that voted for him. He and he alone in that elected political office can stand up to the other elected political leaders and lend a voice of reason — the voice of those that elected him — to this important debate. Why has the current Sheriff apparently chosen not to lead boldly on this issue?
This is one very good reason why voters should demand change from the old ‘politics as usual’ approach. There is a County wide Republican Primary coming up on June 12th and this incumbent Sheriff has asked voters for re-election so he can serve as the Republican ‘flag bearer’ without having taken a leadership position on this issue. All politicians will be watching the results — lets send our political leaders a clear message if they don’t represent what the voters want on this issue then don’t expect conservatives to support you in the Republican Primary!
Jim Patrick’s Shenandoah
» Blog Archive
» Response to illegal immigrants said on 16 May 2007 at 2:38 pm:
[…] Click here to read the rest. […]
I trust they (illegal aliens) still serve their prison time first for violent offenses?
I want to know — who drafted this policy and who chose to adopt it.
If Chief Dean set this policy in motion then it brings into serious question his ability to stay as Chief. If the policy came from the County Executive office then he should be held to account for his illegal actions. Law enforcement is supposed to enforce all the laws that are in place not just those it chooses to enforce. The County Executive should not be encouraging illegal behavior by approving the looking the other way mentality. I am sure Greg and other investigative professionals will update us to this most troubling developement as information is obtained.
Just my Thoughts-
Big Dog,
I believe that this has all been verified by Greg L. I wouldn’t be surprised that a FOIA request was filed by a concerned citizen.
I have spoken to a LEO frined of mine, and he says that the story is legit.
I’d be very surprised if the local police department had adopted a “sanctuary” policy. It’s a legitimate judgment of any local police authorities to leave immigration enforcement to the responsible federal authorities and not use local resources to pull the feds’ chestnuts out of the fire. If there is a surfeit of enforcement capability and local governments want to use our money to perform federal functions, maybe a case could be made, but I’m pretty skeptical.
Got a great laugh out of IP’s effort to have the Sheriff run this show. Very funny, guy. Remember our wager - 20 points.
Ip Ip Ip thread busting again Hey maybe you can be chief deputy.
super trooper, before you said you are a Hill supporter… are you also, by chance, an employee of Hill’s Sheriff’s dept…. you don’t also happen to be a Sgt. are you?
NoVa Scout, like Thumper’s unsupported idea of sending out deputies, what you offer is not what I am saying… and I suspect you know it. But, just for the record, this is a political issue with grave safety/law enforcement impact. A LE leader who could stand up in the political arena / stand up to the politicians who don’t seem to care, don’t seem to get it, don’t seem to want to be bothered, will likely be required if we are going to see any change in the ‘politics as usual’ approach.
If you see some other way… I’d like to hear it.
And, everyone who has posted in the past as to why the Sheriff matters — and asked where the incumbent is defficient, I cite this issue and his inaction as just one clear, contemperaneous example…. Do you not see it or are you just simply refusing to admit it?
Does anyone have any FACTS to challange me on this… has the incumbent done ANYTHING to LEAD on these issues?
Greg L - You have been — thus far — a Hill supporter, you also clearly care a great deal about these issues. Let me ask you directly: Have you seen what you would consider ‘active leadership’ from Sheriff Hill on these issues?
IP - Neither you nor I live in PW, but I sure don’t want the Sheriff of Fairfax County being the sharp end of the wedge on immigration policy. That’s not his job. It’s a huge gnarly issue that cuts across at least three levels of government. I expect the sheriff to execute on his lawful authority. I don’t want him distracted beyond his authority by this extraordinarily vexing issue. While I’m at it, I don’t want the head of the county police taking the lead on this either. If your man would use the Sheriff’s post to grab illegal immigration issues by the lapels, I wouldn’t want him anywhere near the job. If he wants to run for Congress or President, tell him to have at it.
Fairfax County has a major illegal problem it has ignored for years. There are countless illegals throughout the public school system and due to federal mandates of not being able to ask status the population continues to grow adding more to the system every year. Tax dollars at work. I know for a fact that if the very laws on the books were enforced by law enforcemnt and ICE for that matter against individuals as well as employers you would see restaurants in greater Fairfax area lose two thirds of its labor force. An employer in Fairfax has to challenge his/her intergity everyday because 90% of those seeking employment do not have papers or the ones they have are obviously bogus, but again its not as if anyone is asking or following up or doiong I-9 audits on these guys and even when they are involved in a crime it as if know one is validating their status. Sit in traffic court and see how many people go through not speaking english with no id’s with different names and driving with out a state issued liscense. Any Sheriff willing to to take on the challenge of immigration is a brave soul!!!
Perhaps there is some misunderstanding here in regard to what a sanctuary city actually is. Greg says PWC is a sanctuary city. Since I haven’t personally seen the policy (if it’s even in writing), it is possible that our definitions of sanctuary city are different. Based on some of the comments, it appears that at least some think that it is being advocated that the police go out in search of illegal aliens, thus doing the feds job. But that’s not what opponents of sanctuary are expecting from the police department. Here’s an example of what sanctuary is all about:
If I get pulled over for doing 65 in a 45, the police will run my plates and my name. They are looking for outstanding warrants, etc. If one pops, I’m in trouble - and not just for speeding.
One of the things that COULD pop is a deportation order (these are in the system, for example, for previously convicted felons - who have served their time and who have subsequently been ordered deported; I believe the number of these folks stands somewhere around 100,000 last I heard).
In a sanctuary city, the police ignore that information. You are issued the speeding ticket and you are sent on your way.
I’m ABSOLUTELY with Interested Party and AWhitten — the Sheriff is an ELECTED official, directly answerable to the people who put him there, unlike our STAGNANT, don’t rock the boat, appointees….someone with a little motivation and incentive could make a big impact here as Sheriff Joe Arpaio has done in Maricopa County, AZ. But here in the Old Dumbinion — it’s talk, talk, talk, excuses, excuses, excuses — i’m underpaid and overworked, blah, blah, blah….I think we’re all sick to death of this pass the buck mentality. Would you just get the broom and do your damn job. The problem is HERE — not DC!!
I believe that ‘disgusted LEGAL citizen’ has expressed the emotional core of may folks (not just those in PW Co.) I think that when voters start getting good and mad about this issue — and the lack of leadership by their various elected officials — INCLUDING THE CURRENT SHERIFF — we may see a strong message sent by the electorate the next time they get to vote.
Remember, the Republican Primary for Sheriff is going to be on Tuesday, June 12th, 2007, all day, at your regular polling places!
Change starts then!!
IP ahh ,no are you ,FOTIS yes i think so. What is obvious is that you are not even on the same plain as the other republicans in PWC. Why anyone even debates with you is beyond me as i have said before a debate can only take place between parties that understand the politics of the location and climate. You my friend are just clueless. I think that you must have another motive even to run for Sheriff. You dont understand that the county was not happy with a Sheriff
that was wrapped up with politics and here we go again a politician not a law enforcement official like our Sheriif Hill. He cares about people and his job not politics. I cant wait till you get defeated so i can gloat over your steaming political body. You will finally be shot down but you may be able to run for Dog catcher
in Spain but hurry times waisting away. Ahhh sorry was that mean.
super trooper…
since you did not answer the question: are you an employee of Sheriff Hill’s; specifically I asked if you might just also happen to be a Sgt. does that mean you are….. (that seems to be a reasonable conclusion)
Or are you too much of chicken to admit here ,in this forum, that you are actually just afraid of losing your job and you are doing all that you can/coming up with what ever you can find in desperation to try and protect your job…
Come on, be man enough to tell the truth on this one front, just this once!
I, for the record, am a friend of Jim’s; I am not Jim (and to others who have asked, I am not his wife, Kim either); I know that Jim can do a MUCH BETTER job than Hill in a number of areas and I am voluntarily doing what I can to help the voter learn that truth.
IP, how is that you (and some others) constantly refer to your own opinion as “the truth?” I have seen absolutely nothing from you other than opinion…have the good the good grace to offer it as such.
Talk about on the wrong track wrong sex wrong position and as usual with you
wrong facts IP your pathedic. If i was an employee does that mean that Fotis would fire me and just care about politics.
You are on the wrong track,but thats par for the course with you.
Ohhh almost forgot,I still think your Fotis and Chicken hahahah please thats so
angry.
What I can tell you is that Charlie Dean is a coward. He would not know proper law enforcement issues or resolutions if it hit him in the face. He doesn’t stand for anything but screwing his own officers over and making sure he is surrounded by the prettiest faces in his own office. I have nothing to do with the Sheriff’s office but I think they should be left out of this, their job is warrant service and court security, not working the streets (Charlie Deane made sure of that).
Bring the old Sheriff back, you’d see action real quick…
Charlie Deane needs to go and go now!
Remember is officer that almost lost his life to an illegal in Dale City? He shot a guy that had a knife to his throat…
What ever happened to that cop? Oh yeah, he was asked to leave my non other than Charlie Deane. Even after it was justified.
Isn’t Sheriff Hill on the Jail Board? I believe the Code of Virginia requires the Sheriff of the locality where a Regional Jail exists to be a member of the Jail Board. Having said that and it being reported on this thread the Regional Jail Officers are attending ICE training, how could Hill not be involved with the immigration issues? Just because he is not out bragging and boasting about what he is or has done does not mean he has not accomplished a great deal on political issues. Hill seems to be the type of Sheriff that makes things happen without requiring a front page article or a citizen pat on the back! VOTE FOR HILL JUNE 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
vote4hill, are you actually Glendell Hill? Well, maybe not, since
he isn’t quite as articulate as you. His posting would resemble
that of “super pooper”.
N P I quess you will get a hug at the next special olympics
NR, No I am not Hill, nor am I related to him and no I do not work for him… but as you may have guessed a huge supporter! However, I have known him 30 plus years and this man never ceases to amaze me. He works hard and cares about the citizens he serves. I hardly doubt that Hill would engage in this type of squabble. He is a leader, visionary and a dedicated servant! We are lucky to have him!
vote4 hill, I don’t care how long you have known Hill, but since
you profess a 30 year relationship with the man, then you surely know must know the reason(s) he was booted from the
police force years ago. Somehow, he always manages to stay
under the radar. He is not a leader and the only thing he is
dedicated to is himself!
NR, I believe that your statement above is false. If Hill “got booted” from the PWCPD, it would be unlikely that the BOCS would appoint him as jail administrator. It doesn’t make any sense.
NR, you are sadly mistaken…when the powers to be decided to make the Sheriff run jail a regional jail in 1982 several local law enforcement officers…Hill (Manassas City Police) as well as others were approached to come on board to help with the transition for this under taking. If you have something to say…say it…don’t dangle the ole carrot when there is nothing to report. He is a leader and certainly not dedicated to only to himself…I challenge you to check his track record for what he has accomplished for others not himself, in his 30 years of service before you spew….now that is a carrot…
Don’t worry v4h…the Stoffregen bunch is not known for it’s veracity. Just ask the FBI.
vote4hill, I have checked my sources and know for a fact that
at the time the ADC opened, Hill had not been a member of
the police dept for quite some time. He was hired by an out-
of state superintendent who was aware of his record and didn’t
care because he, too, had a record which ultimately brought
about his firing not long after he took over as superintendent.
His name, BTW is William Britton.
AWCheney, this doesn’t come from the Stoffregen bunch.
NR, I cannot help but to remind you of the fact that you were the one that posted “breaking news” on 4/28 concerning the latest badge seizure where you made a pitiful attempt to blame that on Hill…which was a big fat lie….your credibility at this point is beyond questionable…having said that you might want to double check your sources…..and their credibility…
vote4hill, so I did make that little error concerning the badge
episode, but I do not have to double check my sources on this
one. My brother happened to be very connected with the goings-on w/ADC during the 1982-83 era, having been a member of the sheriff’s department under Rollins. My 62 years
of living in Manassas brings a certain amount of credibility on
certain things. Excuse me, but nothing was ever mentioned
about Wade Baughan, the notorious con man who was hired
by HILL (he should be doing time, but guess what? He’s selling
golf carts!) Now, ain’t that a kick in the balls?
NR, you are just something else…so what you are saying is that Hill hired Baughan and Baughan should be in jail…Well, as my research shows Baughan was terminated from employment IMMEDIATELY after an investigation ensued into his deeds, he was sent through the judicial system and sentenced to jail time, which he has served…I cannot help that you don’t feel as if justice was served, GO TALK TO THE JUDGE. Hill has nothing to do with trials or sentencing his responsibilities are spelled out very clearly in the Virginia State Code. Read it! As far as your brothers involvement under Rollins over 25 years ago so what! What in the world does that have to do with the outstanding service and leadership Hill has provided to the citizens of the jurisdictions he serves? And as far as your credibility…one word “questionable.”
ouch i was thinking and that hurts
Where o where is I P when you need him
Dear Not a Fan -
I didn’t recall the story about the officer you mentioned… but it does sound wrong, unfair and, sadly, all too familiar. The politics of illegal immigration and what law enforcement is going to do about it is a VERY POLITICAL ‘thing’. (Would you post data to help me research that case.)
My point about the Office of Sheriff is — that when there is a strong Sheriff who wishes to lead — that person — by virtue of having been elected and therefore accountable to “the people” rather than to other political ‘bosses’ — can use the position of one of the (handful of) countywide elected leaders to champion what the people want.
In short, until common sense and the will of the voters (a.k.a. common folk) is aggressively injected into this political battle, the voters will continue to be screwed on this issue.
The current Sheriff is part of the problem; Fotis for Sheriff will TRY to be part of the solution… I believe this issue will only be resolved through strong political leadership! Does anyone else see anyother ‘real’ way this will be resolved? Prince William County is not getting that strong leadership, especially on this ‘law and order’ issue and now, on June !2th they can do something about it: Vote Fotis for Sheriff
Naked - Will you state for all of us to see your charge that Hill was fired for somekind of ‘bad’/innapropriate thing.
Vote4Hill - Would you like to try and explain how (or what) Hill has done to ‘lead’ on the immigration issue… some oblique reference to his service on the Jail board with no tie-in that I could see is not sufficient.
Super Trooper - still don’t care to admit, honestly and directly for all to see, the truthful answer to the question: Do you work for Hill, are you a Sgt.?
IP, my “oblique reference” was not at all and “oblique reference” please re-read my post and do your own research on the issue. I find it difficult that someone of your substance and projected knowledge would not have any idea what I am referring to. This is yet another pathetic attempt on your part to try to pick apart every post. My advice is do not profess to know what you are talking about if you don’t. If you are oh so very politically savvy then you would with 100 percent certainty know what I am talking about. Futhermore, I have yet to hear any citizens complaining about Hill’s service or leadership except for you and NR. Hill is a great Sheriff and has a tremendous amount of support from the citizens whether you want to believe it or not…
NR, it just goes to show you what type of person you really are if you cannot handle the honest to goodness truth that you have to call on IP for some back-up….
VOTE HILL JUNE 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IP, one more thing…I have studied the Fotis website. I am a bit disappointed to see that you are using the exact same verbage as the publisher of the webpage. Now I am disappointed for two reasons…Super Trooper may be correct and my blog battles with you may not be with a “supporter.” Now as I see it…you have denied being Fotis or his wife and you have opened the door when you have in your last 3 posts cornered Super Trooper. The point of the matter is the webpage speaks like you and that is a bit disconcerting since you have adamantly denied being Fotis…SO the only explanation for the exact use of the same wording is???????
[Ed note: comment removed at request of author.]
[Ed note: comment removed by request of author.]
Your post is entirely off-topic, but I’m going to let this slide for now. In the future, if you feel you need to get something out there, email me. I don’t like having threads dragged off-topic, and am less likely to use my limited available bandwidth chasing down stuff posted by anonymous commenters than I would taking an email and putting into my queue of things to follow up on. Those may take a while to get worked on, but they do. Deeply nested comments in old threads get forgotten.
I can’t wait until this Sherrif’s race is over and this annoying tendency to have every thread hijacked by folks with an ax to grind about Sherrif’s candidate will stop. You’d think the only place the campaigns were operating would be in these comment threads.
Interested Party-
The incident occured about 3 years ago in Dale City. Illlegals have a party hich the PWCPD was called out to. The officer involved in the shooting was trying to obtain information about the party and one of the party goers started an arguement. Officer 1 “his initials are AC, not sure he would want to see his name on the internet, had a knife pulled and was about to have his neck slit. Scuffle insued and he shot the guy. Did I mention that his back up sat there scared in his car? Back up even admitted it in the Admin. investigation. AC ended up gone because Charlie Deane told him the Hispanic backlash would be too great. The backup was even so much as suspended for a day.
Charlie Deane is the most anti-policeman person I have even has the displeasure of knowing. I cold give you more facts about Charlie Deane and his misconduct and power tripping ways but not necessarily in this public avenue.
To concerned citizen- I know for fact-Charlie Deane only involves himself in officers affairs if he has an ax to grind with on individual officer. He has put his nose in officers personal lives while off duty and not in county. Please don’t get me started on his personal misdeeds!
Greg said on 6/2 that he’ll be glad when this Sheriff’s race is
over and also stated his annoyance with the comment thread
re the candidates. Since Greg is partially responsible for the
comments in the first place, i.e. remarks about Hill’s high
esteem, etc. which I find very amusing. As far as your projected outcome of Hill “crushing” Messier, I have to wonder
why Hill is frantically running around his neighborhood pushing
his unsolicited campaign materials and having his thugs remove
Messier signs from all over the county. Your perceived outcome
for Gill was a big mistake, I am hopeful that you are wrong on
this one as well. I can promise IP (no, I do not know IP) that
if Messier does not win in the primary, I will do all in my power
to help him with a Fotis win (should he refile as an independent)
Just to get the present sheriff out of office, that is of the utmost
importance, especially for the deputies who are being dictated
to and threatened regarding the election. I listen to their stories, and they are not pretty.
A few comments from experience………….
I worked for the P.W.C. Police for several years. During my employment I observed several head scratching decisions by Charlie Deane. He has become such an abstract decision maker based on power plays within the county, it has lead to the majority of department members to refer to the Chief’s Office as “the puzzle palace.” So how does this impact the Sheriff’s Office?
When our previous Sheriff was increasing the involvement of his street deputies in routine traffic enforcement, county park security checks, and back-up for county police officers, Charlie Deane became angry. Instead of embracing these efforts as help for a police department which struggled just to keep up with calls for service, the Chief publicly addressed the Sheriff’s Office efforts as, “duplication of services.” But within the department he was directing police supervisors to make sure they “protected police turf” by keeping deputies away from police calls and county parks. As a police supervisor for Charlie Deane I only wanted more patrol officers to keep from drowning from the demand for police response(s). I welcomed the involvement of the Sheriff’s Office.
Many do not know that it was Charlie Deane who encouraged Glen Hill to run for Sheriff during the last election. It was a classic power play move on Deane’s part to rid the county of a law enforcement official who refused to answer to him.
I like Glen Hill. I found him to be very helpful while conducting investigations involving the county jail. But I never thought he would be an effective elected offical. To point to how much Charlie Deane influences policy over Glen Hill, you only need to count the number of staff members appointed to the Sheriff’s Office coming directly from Charlie Deane’s staff.
Collectively, their first order of business after the election, was to have radar units collected from deputies, and memorandums issued which ended the involvement of increased enforcement and protection. This doesn’t sound like progress to me. The only achievement this action created was to give the Chief of Police the absolute power he craved.
I have worked with Mike Messier. I find him to be a very fair and smart person when dealing with internal issues. His past decisions inside the Sheriff’s Office as the Chief Deputy have shown he posesses the common sense necessary to deal with other agencies at both local and state levels. Under his direction deputies had few complaints, and all the deputies I know who are currently in the Sheriff’s Office support him.
I would love to see our current Sheriff debate Mike Messier. It would leave voters with no doubt making him Sheriff would improve law enforcement in Prince William. The influence that Charlie Deane has on the Sheriff’s Office has to be broken. I have heard Charlie Deane say, “I make decisions based on the potential headlines they create.” Based on the current morale and retention problems he has this statement does not include right & wrong and a sense of fair play. The staff of the Sheriff’s Office has had too much exposure to “fire first, ask questions later” mentality of our current Chief.
For Glen Hill’s lack of proactive measures on the street, and keeping a troubled Police Chief happy, he should expect to lose his current position. Prince William needs deputies helping an understaffed and inexperienced police presence on the street. This will never be achieved with our current Police Chief or Sheriff.
Disclosure: I do not currently hold a law enforcement position, nor desire it.
Good Time Charlie
Not a CD fan and Anonymous @ 7:20
Please look me up at the Fotis for Sheriff victory party, thre will be two: either on the primary night or at the general..
Id’ love to chat about this… esp the officer invovled stuff.
Will find the time to talk.
A few comments from experience……
I would like to compare the retention rates of the PWCPD compared to neighboring law enforcement agencies. When I speak to officers who are retired or close to leaving the department, the information I receive is that morale is so bad that trainees are leaving the department immediately upon academy graduation due to the stories they are hearing from sworn officers regarding the Charlie Deane administration. I think there is a story behind the length of stay for new hires. I witnessed so many morale issues while wearing a badge for Charlie Deane I am surprised his officers would want to risk being fired by getting out of their police vehicle to initiate contact through proactive police work.
There is other data I think would expose how effective Charlie Deane is as a leader. Arrests numbers through self-initiated contact. When he became C.O.P. the PWCPD was a great place to work, and few sworn members turned in their badge. Street officers used to pride themselves in finding criminals in the act of committing crimes. Slowly I watched Deane change the street mentality of enforcement measures. He immediately changed the direction of internal issues by having the Internal investigations Unit report directly to him instead of being independent from administration influence. More power and influence was achieved by this move. He could now direct and influence the outcome of any investigation. Over time, several great public servants have had investigations work against them for what appears to be a simple lack of regard Deane had for them. But it appears his personal campaigns against his officers has caught up to him. After observing several “good cops” get insanely disciplined for acts which should have produced positive recognition or valor awards (Andrew Cornell fighting for his life while immigrants attacked), it appears street officers have gone into employment survival mode by staying in their cars.
My understanding of this incident from reliable sources was that his first back-up remained with his police car waiting for additional help while Cornell was getting beaten by numerous hispanic subjects. The unwillingness of the initial back-up to get involved was a major factor in the need to use deadly force. While defending himself during the investigation, Cornell demanded that charges of cowardice be placed against the back-up officer. But investigators refused, deciding instead to place procedural charges against Cornell. The fall out from this incident. Andrew Cornell who was an outstanding cop, became disgusted with the manner this was handled and quit. Another head scatching incident brought to you from the desk of Charlie Deane.
But many cases of “Good Time Charlie” investigating off duty personal and/or marital issues have left several officers looking for another department or another line or work (both voluntarily or by firing). When I worked for Deane the department’s citizen/officer ratio was well below both recommended F.O.P. staffing levels and ratios of surrounding jurisdictions. I bet those ratios haven’t changed much.
While at a briefing, I witnessed Deane engaged in a topic involving police retention. I heard Deane remark, “police officers no longer have loyalty.” I immediately realized that someone needed to clue this man into the actual problem………….loyalty is a two way street. When your reputation as a leader suggests that you are finding ways to fire your officers for minor incidents on or off-duty, department members will desert you for no other reason but self preservation. But the great looking women and “yes” men he has surrounded himself with would not risk their career by informing him that he might be the problem.
But things look great from the outside. I’m sure he will get support from the PWCPD Police association. And why not? He has promoted almost all association presidents for their cooperation and support of his internal policies. Another smart power play. The truth surrounding the leadership of the association (which I was a member) is that if you stay out of the way, vote on the Chief’s personnel decisions he presents to you, and not worry about representing department members, you will be rewarded. A message to all promotion oriented newer officers. If you want those sergeant strips, get on the sergeant’s list and become an elected position with the police association and just do as Deane tells you.
I could continue to expose “the puzzle palace” with numerous incidents involving this man. But the citizens of PWC need to embrace this thought. Charlie Deane is a very powerful man. He sits on the jail board, has undue influence in the Sheriff’s Office with the election of Glen Hill, and doesn’t forget those who question policy within his police department. If you feel safer in PWC than you did 20 years ago, then Deane is your man. But I drive the streets of the county frequently and only see a police car when it is rushing to a call. My opinion based on inside observations, as long as Deane remains the C.O.P. you need additional law enforcement. That will not happen with Glen Hill. I suggest if a candidate for Sheriff presents you with a platform that includes additional street presence and enforcement, you should consider it a vote for your safety. Don’t fall for the “duplication of services” garbage that Deane will feed you when he supports Hill in the upcoming election. His support is simple……..he is “protecting his turf.”