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51st District Appeal Possibilities

By Greg L | 3 June 2007 | 51st HOD District | 79 Comments

If the 51st District convention is thrown out by the 11th District Committee Ccommittee, and that decision is not overturned by RPV, there are only a few options available for selecting a nominee by the state-mandated deadline of June 12th. Article VIII of the Party Plan requires that conventions are announced thirty days prior to the date of the convention, so there couldn’t be another convention called. A mass meeting or firehouse primary would be the only option, and that option would seem to expire tomorrow. There isn’t a whole lot of time to consider options here.

Section A, paragraph 2 of the party plan states:

All calls for Mass Meetings or Party Canvasses shall be published in a newspaper of general circulation in the Election District not less than seven (7) days, except those calls for special elections, prior to the Mass Meeting or Party Canvass and except calls published in any presidential election year, in which case the call shall be published fifteen (15) days in advance.

I would read this to mean that the last day a Mass Meeting of Party Canvass (aka “Firehouse Primary”) could be called would be Tuesday, June 5th, if that would be held on the same day as the Primary.

Paragraph 3 states that if there is a prefiling requirement for candidates, that be published seven days prior to the prefiling deadline. If there were no prefiling requirement, there could be additional candidates for the nomination considered. It appears to be possible that the notification deadlines overlap, and it would be possible to announce a prefiling requirement for June 11th, which would require notice be published by tomorrow, June 4th. Even if that decision was rendered this evening, it would be difficult to get a notice published in the paper for tomorrow’s edition.

There may be a requirement for having a 25 delegates sign an appeal of the convention, pursuant to Article X, paragraph 4. If this section is applicable, and I’m not quite sure if it is, there isn’t a whole lot of time to secure these signatures in order to leave enough time to have the process complete and still have enough time to choose an alternative method of nomination. My understanding is that if there is no means of selecting a nominee for the 51st House District through canvass or mass meeting, the Legislative District Chairman, Tom Kopko, would have the power to select a nominee himself.

I’m obviously not an expert on the RPV plan, and would love it of readers who might be more familiar with it would weigh in. My understanding so far is that if the 51st District convention is thrown out, the process for selecting a nominee will have to be in place no later than tomorrow. This is an awfully short fuse.

UPDATE: One comment notes that the 11th District Committee, and not just it’s chairman would have to make this call. Meetings of the 11th District Committee require seven day’s notice to committee members. Unless there’s some means for them to arrive at a decision sooner, it would seem that there’s no way to ensure a substitute means of selecting a nominee for the 51st District is available.  The post has been updated to reflect that the committee, and not just the chairman have to make the decision about whether the convention would be thrown out.

The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.

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  1. GOP Stalwart said on 3 Jun 2007 at 10:21 pm:
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    BIG CORRECTION NEEDED HERE… It’s the 11th District COMMITTEE that would hear an appeal and make a determination NOT the Chairman alone.

    This process should not be confused with the Legislative Districts which can be, and sadly often are, a committee of one… something else which should be addressed at some point by RPV.

  2. Greg L said on 3 Jun 2007 at 10:39 pm:
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    Thanks for the input. That makes a big difference here.

  3. Loudoun Insider said on 3 Jun 2007 at 11:02 pm:
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    This is so unfortunate and so predictable. Don’t you think they chose such a late date to remove the possibility of a successful appeal? People in Loudoun County have been talking about this same possibility for months now. The LCRC Convention will be held June 9 with certification to the SBE of candidates due June 12. They can run a totally crooked convention and there will be little time to rectify any problems. This MUST be corrected by RPV ASAP.

  4. Anonymous said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:22 am:
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    When the heck are the people here at BVBL gonna just accept that Faisal Gill is the winner????

    Realistically speaking, there are no viable options here for Julie Lucas to get the outcome of this convention overturned in her favor.

  5. Loudoun Insider said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:25 am:
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    Realistically speaking, there is no way Faisal Gill will win a general election not dominated by his compatriots.

  6. Anonymous said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:28 am:
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    The Democrats are already celebrating the Gill win.

  7. not bvbl said on 4 Jun 2007 at 7:16 am:
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    Im not so sure that the intention of an appeal by Lucas would be to get her name on the ballot. An appeal would be a good way for Lucas to shed some light on how crappy and crooked a job Kopko and company did on this convention.

    The biggest suprise with this whole escapade is how Michelle McQuigg was willing to throw away a strong legacy by siding with Gill in this race instead of staying nuetral.

  8. Bryanna said on 4 Jun 2007 at 7:32 am:
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    Why was Clerk of Court originally scheduled for May 19th and the 51st on June 2nd., why not the same time to best accomodate our delegates? It’s part of the plan to block Julie from the appeal process using time contraints.

    17 over votes didn’t happen by accident. Are you saying McQuigg and May drank too much Kool-Aid, and made an honest error, 17 times? No way.

    This wreaks of voter fraud and once again we see the pattern of recklessness that surrounds Gill. Kopko will do anything to block RPV from becoming involved. Julie needs to stand up and fight.

    Julie, don’t jump on the Senate seat. They’re baiting you. It’s the “give a dog a bone” theory to distract you from the real issues. You’re no fool, they’re not your friends. The issues are clear, and winning by cheating is never acceptable. We saw it coming, I know you didn’t want to believe this could happen, but now it has, it’s time for you to show us your brass, stand up and fight like your life depends on it. Your job as Delegate has already begun and your fight is for truth and justice. Don’t concede, STAND UP and FIGHT!

    Lets put Gillespie to the test and see if justice will prevail over the influence of Karl Rove.

  9. Bryanna said on 4 Jun 2007 at 7:33 am:
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    I’ll vote for an honest Independent over a cheating, dishonest Republican anyday.

  10. Anonymous said on 4 Jun 2007 at 7:37 am:
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    I agree with the post above that it is impossibe to have a review of this mess and change the outcome in tme for Lucas to be the nominee.

    The best thing to do is to channel all this energy into removing Kopko as Chairman. That is the venue where the problems with this nomination process can be aired. The sooner that happens the better.

  11. GOP Stalwart said on 4 Jun 2007 at 7:50 am:
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    Sorry, Anonymous, I have to respectfully disagree. There is no legitimate winner yet…

    There are far too many allegations of, shall we say, “serious flaws” in the process for the final determination to be legitimate. I was cruising some other blogs and saw a post on NLS that presented a very disturbing alternate theory on how the over-votes ocurred and i agree with the assessment therein — if even half the alllegations are proven true, the process itself is probably tainted beyond repair.

    Anon 7:32 - it’s not Gillespie at this point, if there’s an appeal filed it will be at the 11CD (fyi). However the decision of the 11CD could be appealed up to RPV. Oh, and, just so you know, no one can “block” the 11CD or RPV from getting involved once an appeal is filed. The crummy thing is that they cannot intervene until asked to.

    I love this party and it pains me greatly when it is misused and abused as it has apparently been in this situation. It disallusions us party stalwarts and give the entire party a black eye.

  12. Batson D. Belfrey said on 4 Jun 2007 at 8:31 am:
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    Can somebody tell me why RPV or 11 CD couldn’t invalidate this convention, and set the date of a Firehouse primary as the same date as the Sheriff’s primary? Would there be some rule prohibiting this?

  13. Anonymous said on 4 Jun 2007 at 8:41 am:
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    OK. So you’re saying it is possible to have an appeal and change the existing result? My understanding is that it has to be filed this morning. Does anyone have any information on where that stands or influence in getting that done ASAP!!

    My statement on removing Kopko still stands though.

  14. Julie Supporter said on 4 Jun 2007 at 9:01 am:
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    My understanding is that the firehouse primary would HAVE to be done by Saturday the 2nd of June. It would take an EMERGENCY meeting of the 11th to make this happen and there is a possibility that RPV COULD send this back to the 51st District Chair to decide who the nominee would be.

    But let’s look at the BIG picture here. Faisal supporters were CROWING that they had 800 or so delegates to the convention and Julie had around 500. Yet, once the votes were counted and weighed in, Julie lost by less than 1% of the vote. The VERY FACT that Julie was able to get THAT CLOSE in a Convention that was rigged AGAINST HER with NO CHANCE of her winning shows what a strong candidate she really is.

    Those who claim she is a “lightweight” have no business making commentary on local political affairs. What Kopko has done is hand the 51st over to the Democratic Party. What Prince Willam County Republicans need to do is TAKE BACK the PWCGOP once and for all. Hold Kopko accountable for the actions that took place.

    How many times did we hear that Julie supporters were “Democrats”??? Well, for all those who showed up to the Convention last Saturday, I say to you, “How many FAISAL supporters have you seen at GOP meetings as of late and, how many do you predict will be at future meetings???”

    Kopko, McQuigg, et.al. need to go and NOW.

  15. Greg L said on 4 Jun 2007 at 9:04 am:
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    An appeal would have to be considered by the 11th District committee, which requires seven day’s notice before a meeting. If they then invalidate the convention, there would have to be seven more day’s notice before a canvass or mass meeting could be held. That would put us well beyond the SBE deadline for parties advising the state who their candidates are.

    If there’s some way to have the 11th CD invalidate this convention without formally meeting, we could possibly sneak in just under the wire.

  16. Anonymous said on 4 Jun 2007 at 9:06 am:
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    AGREE!! Except the nomination deadline is June 12 (same day as the other primaries).

  17. James Young said on 4 Jun 2007 at 9:51 am:
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    Without conceding the primary point, winning by cheating has frequently been acceptable to RPV, or at least tolerated. In 1993, a completely fraudulent convention was run in which one faction (which had five years earlier thrown them out) brought a bunch of unqualified delegates to maintain its power. It refused to allow the opposing faction even ACCESS to credentials, and accepted from a candidate filing fees that it, without authorization, refunded to that candidate. Under the circumstances, that refund quite probably constituted a crime.

    It was the Young Republican Federation of Virginia. The candidate was (later and now former) Delegate Tom Bolvin. Shortly after the fraud, former PWC GOP Chairman Steve Danziger joined the group through a YR club which was supposed to have competed with the PW Young Republicans, which I then chaired.

    Of course, then, it was the so-called “moderates” who were engaging in actual fraud. And many of the same people now screaming about mere allegations at this convention said and did NOTHING. I would especially note that Danziger was part of “Team Lucas” at the Convention, and has little room for complaint, given his ratification of — though not complicity in — the fraud which was the YRFV for many years.

    You reap what you sow.

  18. Barbara Cummings said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:07 am:
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    I’m looking at the rules for appeals and trying to figure out if I as an individual have standing to file an appeal since I witnessed an irregularity and consider myself to have been adversely affected, or if only the candidate has standing. The section of the party plan which I’m reading is this one:

    1. Each Unit Committee shall decide all controversies and contests arising within its jurisdiction, but those persons deemed adversely affected by any such decision shall have the right of appeal to the appropriate District Committee. In the case of a split Unit, if the controversy or contest specifically relates to the operations or affairs of a particular Congressional or Legislative District, an appeal shall be taken to that particular Congressional or Legislative District Committee; if not, an appeal shall be taken to the District Committee of the District wherein the person appealing resides.

    If I do in fact have standing, how would I proceed? How do you file an appeal? What form does one use? Who specifically does it go to?

  19. Former YRFV Member said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:18 am:
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    I can not believe it! Jim Young is actually pulling up old YRFV issues. Dude, let it go!!!! Seriously, that was 15 years ago. The two groups have rejoined, even Jim and Margie have put it behind them. Hardly anyone knows what you are talking about and those that do are laughing out loud that you still care. Every other person, and I do mean EVERY other person involved before, after or during has moved on with their political lives and yet still you dwell in the past. Have you done nothing else politically that you can tout other than being the chairman of a long defunked YR club? I mean, that would be like someone in their 40’s demanding front row seats at a football game because they were the quarterback their senior year of high school. The sad part is, you weren’t even the quarterback…you were more like the waterboy. With all this 51st district stuff I was starting to feel a little depressed about the state of our Party. Thank you for giving me such a hardy laugh and boosting my spirits. What a trooper you are to keep fighting a 15 year old war in which the ink dried on the settlement treaty years ago. You go Jim!

  20. YR?whybother said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:22 am:
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    There’s a difference. You refer to positions within YRs which has just become a geek-fest of blow hards who do nothing in the party but cause dust-ups that RPV has to sort through when their time could be better spent working on real issues.

    This is big-boy league. In this instance we’re talking about a sworn, lawmaking position in the Virginia Legislature. Apples and Oranges.

  21. Anonymous said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:28 am:
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    Maybe that’s where Jim Young’s bitterness comes from. He wants to be in the Young Republicans again. They didn’t want him then and they certainly won’t take him now.

  22. Anonymous said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:33 am:
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    To Barbara Cummings,

    Take your above post and shoot it to Becky Stockel in an e-mail: epi@cavtel.net

  23. Batson D. Belfrey said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:54 am:
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    “Maybe that’s where Jim Young’s bitterness comes from. He wants to be in the Young Republicans again. They didn’t want him then and they certainly won’t take him now.”

    Now I get why James Young is such an angry man. James often reaches back to his glory days as a YR, as a way to make himself appear important. He believes the the “Young” in “Young Republicans” refers not to the age of the members. No, James believes that the “Young” confers ownership, as it is HIS group, (James) Young Republicans

  24. Steve Danziger said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:57 am:
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    Jim Young is so strange in so many ways that it is hardly worth replying to his comment. To set the record straight, I did join the YR’s 3 years after the Bolvin election (Bruce Meyer was then Chairman) and am very glad the YR split was healed some 7 years later.
    I’m not sure what that has to do with Saturday’s events though. I was involved in the election process as a volunteer and was very surprised to see overvotes, however I did not observe anything improper in the voting or tallying. It was very hectic with people trying to vote quickly and leave. A few people as they left (at that time I was watching the back door to ensure no one was coming in the wrong way while others were leaving) did question if there was opportunity for tampering but none made any specific allegation.

  25. Loudoun Insider said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:10 am:
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    The primary thing I noticed about JY’s comment is the fact that he never directly refuted the claims of cheating and improprieties at the Convention. Normally he would be all over commenters for attacking his precious Faisal and Kopko, but not this time. He seemingly condones the cheating because someone else did it years ago. Interesting.

  26. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:34 am:
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    I agree with Steve. I also saw nothing wrong and actually thought the election was run fairly well. It’s not surprising or unusual that there is controversy when an election is close. With regard to the overvotes, my guess is that people who lived in Lake Ridge cast their votes in the Lake Ridge precinct box, even though they lived in a different precinct in Lake Ridge. In other words, some political newcomers may not have realized the difference between Lake Ridge the HOA and Lake Ridge the precinct.

  27. Barbara Cummings said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:42 am:
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    To Anon re Becky Stockel’s email, I followed your suggestion an hour ago, but have not been able to get through her spam filter yet. I’m still waiting for approval to get through.

    If you or anyone else has suggestions on how to proceed further I would appreciate it.

  28. Jonathan Mark said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:59 am:
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    “”"my guess is that people who lived in Lake Ridge cast their votes in the Lake Ridge precinct box, even though they lived in a different precinct in Lake Ridge. In other words, some political newcomers may not have realized the difference between Lake Ridge the HOA and Lake Ridge the precinct.”"”

    Are you saying that anyone could put any ballot into any ballot box they wished, even if it was the wrong one?

  29. AWCheney said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:03 pm:
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    Barbara, I believe that the best way to do this is to send her an official letter with your statement and request that the convention be nullified for improprieties by certified mail. That will definitely get her attention.

  30. AWCheney said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:05 pm:
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    Actually, anyone that witnessed improprieties at the convention should do the same thing. If nothing else, this will most certainly give legs to any appeal that Julie Lucas might file.

  31. Barbara Cummings said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:08 pm:
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    AWCheney, Thanks, I’ll do that. I actually do not know who she is though. All I know is her name. Who and where is she? Thanks.

  32. Barbara Cummings said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:13 pm:
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    Never mind, my husband found an address:

    Becky Stockel
    11th Congressional District Republican Committee
    10412 Main Street
    Fairfax, VA 22030

    office 703-352-1337

  33. Valley Observer said on 4 Jun 2007 at 12:41 pm:
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    Good luck with the RPV! They are ducking their heads in the sand. As of yet, they have avoided ALL issues and conflicts around the state. So much for leadership…

  34. Batson D. Belfrey said on 4 Jun 2007 at 1:14 pm:
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    “In other words, some political newcomers may not have realized the difference between Lake Ridge the HOA and Lake Ridge the precinct.”

    Freddy, This would have caused an under-vote in other precincts, and would have quickly resolved the over-vote issue. As far as we know, this was not the case. What we have are more votes overall, then delegates checked in.

  35. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 1:57 pm:
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    Batson and Jonathan,

    There were observers (1 for each campaign) at every voting station who were checking ID’s. They should also have been also confirming that people were voting in the correct precinct. But that was no guarantee that mistakes would not be made since the observers were all volunteers and things were hectic inside.

    I do not know if there were undervotes, as I was not involved in running the election. Undervotes are not uncommon, however, as people sometimes leave early or decide that they like neither candidate.

  36. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 2:21 pm:
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    I just checked, and there were 38 underrvotes — people who got credentialed but didn’t wait around to vote.

  37. Jonathan Mark said on 4 Jun 2007 at 2:47 pm:
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    “”"I just checked, and there were 38 underrvotes — people who got credentialed but didn’t wait around to vote.”"”

    How was this 38 number arrived at? My interpretation of what you are saying is that in up to 12 of the 15 precincts the number of people who voted was less than the number of credentialed delegates, and the total number less for all undervoted precincts was 38.

    In the other three of the precincts the number of people who voted was greater than the number of credentialed delegates, and the total number greater for all three overvoted precincts was 5.

    Do I understand you correctly? Also, where did you get the data for the number of over/under votes? Is that available online?

  38. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 2:57 pm:
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    I do not know the answer to your question. I hope all the details are posted so we can see. I called someone who got the information second-hand, so I am not sure how reliable it is.

  39. James Young said on 4 Jun 2007 at 3:53 pm:
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    Isn’t it funny how people who don’t want to be held responsible for THEIR fraud are the loudest voices against what they perceive to be someone else’s fraud.

  40. anon said on 4 Jun 2007 at 4:21 pm:
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    Anon 7:32…17 overvotes??? Where did you come up with that number? I heard it was something like 5. Greg, can you set the record strait please?

  41. me said on 4 Jun 2007 at 4:23 pm:
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    They announced at the convention what numbers they had at check- in. I wrote down 634. They later announced the totals of the vote. Those numbers are posted on the committee web site. Take the 634 and subtract out the raw vote of 596 and you come up with the 38.

  42. Lars Wiechmann said on 4 Jun 2007 at 5:29 pm:
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    “Isn’t it funny how people who don’t want to be held responsible for THEIR fraud are the loudest voices against what they perceive to be someone else’s fraud.”

    Who doesn’t want to be held responsible for their fraud?

  43. Jonathan Mark said on 4 Jun 2007 at 6:07 pm:
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    The number of non-voting delegates X minus the number of illegitimate voters Y equals 38. Since there were at least five illegitimate voters in the three precincts with overvotes that means that:

    X - Y = 38

    Y >= 5

    and so adding the two equations

    X >= 43.

    We really don’t know how many illegitimate voters there were, since in up to 12 of the precincts the presence of illegitimate voters could have been masked by the non-voting delegates.

  44. James Young said on 4 Jun 2007 at 6:13 pm:
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    I love some of the responses to my post. The lengths to which some will go to try to discredit me amaze. According to one, I am “tout[ing] … being the chairman of a long defunked YR club” simply because I note it (a rather minor point) as a frame of reference.

    And really? These types of then-supposedly minor dishonesties don’t have any relevance? What about participants whose dishonesty then might well be mere precursors to later, even current, dishonesties? That’s when the “geek-fest of blow hards who do nothing in the party but cause dust-ups that RPV has to sort through” grow up and join the “big-boy league.” BTW, such “dust-ups” are hardly “minor” for any organization like the YRs, the CRs, or the Republican Women’s Clubs, for that matter, since all have three seats each on the State Central Committee. These were the types of concerns expressed by then-Chairman Pat McSweeney, National Committeeman Morton Blackwell, then-Senator Joe Benedetti, and now-Supreme Court Justice Don Lemmons at the time, if memory serves.

    And among the truly amazing fantasies the projections regarding what I purportedly believe. “Batson’s” — as someone so UNimportant that he can’t even use his real name, lest others say “Who?” and “What has he ever accomplished?” — are particularly entertaining.

    I will say one thing, however: it impresses me that Danziger is not apparently joining in with the Sore/Losermen complaining that Julie should “fight on.” Perhaps my memory is failing me, but I (apparently mistakenly) remembered him coming in much earlier. If I erred, then I apologize (does that word pass muster around here, I wonder?) I truly hope that his voice is listened to by Julie and those advising her.

    And as for “Loudmouthed Inciter’s” belittling comments, I refuted nothing because — as with the charges leveled against Faisal — there is nothing to refute. Moreover, as someone who merely stopped by the Convention very late — about 3:30, as I recall, well after the voting was concluded — I am in no position to confirm or refute much of anything. Other than the efforts of Julie’s people to disenfranchise one (or was it three?) entire precincts, I witnessed very little. And I certainly don’t “condone cheating.” I merely observe that others have. And that there are many who don’t have what the law of equity calls “clean hands” on this subject.

  45. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 6:24 pm:
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    We need to get this thing behind us quickly and get pointed in a positive direction. I have been a friend of Julie’s for a long time. Julie has more than a decent shot at the 36th — certainly a better shot than overturning the results of last Saturday’s convention. Why? For the following reasons:

    1. For the first time in 20 years, there is a competitive and ambitious Republican (Chris Royce) running for and open Woodbridge Supervisor seat. He is knocking on a lot of doors for himself and the Republican ticket. (Woodbridge is a majority of the Prince William portion).

    2. Jeff Frederick has turned the 31st red - even in a bad GOP year like 2005– and the 31st is a majority of the Prince William portion of the 36th District. He is working it even harder this time and is famous for knocking doors to get out the Republican vote.

    3. The Democrats have targeted several Senate and House seats in NOVA. They will not be able to focus resources on the 36th, as they did in 2003. But even then, Braunlick came close to beating Puller.

    4. Economically distressed Democratic-leaning portions of the district are either redeveloping and becoming more Republican or are being replaced by non-citizen Hispanic residents.

    5. Julie already represents a significant portion of the 36th. She won these precincts in 2003, despite the fact that they leaned Democratic. Since then, her name recognition reputation has improved in those areas.

    6. She has a campaign team already in place. Together with Frederick and Royce, a lot of doors will be knocked on to get out the GOP vote.


    Even if Julie does not win, she sets herself up for the seat if there is a vacancy.

  46. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 6:57 pm:
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    My mistake — Jeff Frederick represents the 52nd district, not the 31st.

  47. Jonathan Mark said on 4 Jun 2007 at 7:50 pm:
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    The reasons that some gave for opposing Faisal Gill remain. He was the chief lobbyist for the imprisoned Abdurahman Alamoudi’s American Muslim Council. The AMC was an in part a Libyan funded extremist group. it told Moslems after 9-11 not to talk to the FBI.

    Gill had no business working there in 2001, especially after 9-11.

    Gill was the AMCs chief lobbyist. It was his job to know what the AMCs positions were. If he didn’t know that the AMC supported Hamas and opposed the FBI then Gill wasn’t doing his job.

    The AMCs statement telling Moslems not to talk to the FBI was right there on the AMC’s website for all the world, including AMC chief lobbyist Faisal Gill, to see.

    As noted gun rights attorney Alan Gura wrote on page 17 of the 5/24/07 Washington Jewish Week:

    “”"After 9/11, AMCs Web site contained the following language:

    The Law Says You Don’t Have To Talk to the FBI: The FBI is looking for information to use against you, your family and/or your community. The FBI has a history of harassing and harming immigrant communities. Some people are spending a long time in jail because they or their friends talked to the FBI…FBI agents are trained to get you to make incomplete or contradictory statements—which later can be used against you in court. It is better to say nothing.

    Even if Gill did not actually write these words for AMCs website, was Gill not at least aware that he was the public face of a group urging Muslims not to cooperate with the FBIs investigation of 9/11?”"”

  48. Jonathan Mark said on 4 Jun 2007 at 7:55 pm:
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    I left out the URL of Alan Gura’s article on page 17 of the 5/24/07 Washington Jewish Week. BVBL reprinted the article at:


    Some Faisal Gill enthusiasts (e.g., Charles) question that Alan Gura wrote the article, but it can easily be confirmed by visiting a Fairfax County Public Library which subscribes to Washington Jewish Week (the one on Rte. 236 in Annandale does) and looking it up.

  49. Greg L said on 4 Jun 2007 at 8:04 pm:
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    Julie running in the 36th is a ludicrous idea as far as I can tell. Puller won two elections since she had her stroke, and no one was trumpeting how vulnerable she was after last November. Now there’s all this talk that she’s low-hanging fruit just when some folks are desperately trying to head off a 51st District appeal. I don’t buy it at all. The timing of this push is rather suspect.

    Besides, just how credible is a last-minute senate campaign coming from someone who just lost in a convention filled with anecdotes of impropriety?

    Maybe the 36th Senate District should hold a mass meeting and just see who files. If Puller is so vulnerable, I’m sure someone in Fairfax, which represents most of the district, will be eager to step up for this challenge. Asking Julie to fill the glaring candidate recruitment gap in the 36th — like she owes someone a favor right now — has got to be a pretty insulting proposition.

  50. AWCheney said on 4 Jun 2007 at 8:14 pm:
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    Excellent analysis Greg…and, I’m sure, spot on.

  51. Jonathan Mark said on 4 Jun 2007 at 8:59 pm:
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    I live in the 36th. It goes all the way to Springfield and Franconia in Fairfax County. I doubt that Julie would do well here. This is a very pro-Jim Moran (D-VA) area.

    Even one overvote represents a breakdown in the system. Five that we know of represents at best a significant level of incompetence. How would you like it if your local bank allowed five people who were not depositors to withdraw money in the space of a few hours? Overvotes are the same thing.

    My preference is that Julie politely but firmly pushes for an investigation of what went wrong with the overvotes. Then she can run against Del. Nichols in two years and possibly win the seat back for the Dems.

    Remember Gill people! The local Boards of Elections will run the November Tally. Kopko and McQuigg will play no role, and the election will be fairer than the fiasco last Saturday.

  52. AWCheney said on 4 Jun 2007 at 9:19 pm:
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    “I have been a friend of Julie’s for a long time.” (Freddy, June 4, 6:24 pm)

    You know Freddy, I have to wonder if I asked Julie if she knows anyone she calls Freddy, will she say yes? I rather doubt it. For one thing, if you were a friend of Julie’s you would not be insisting all over the place that nothing wrong occurred at the convention, because Julie herself knows that is incorrect and I doubt that one of her friends would be saying otherwise because they would be privy to the same information. You’ve posted this same comment re. Julie running for Toddy Puller’s seat at NLS and, I have no doubt, at other sites word for word. I strongly suspect that you have a strong vested interest here and it is not in the best interests of Julie Lucas.

  53. freedom said on 4 Jun 2007 at 9:35 pm:
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    Johnathan Mark…

    Would you please send all your documentation on Faisal Gill’s history to a lawyer here in the 51st District? His name is Paul Nichols. Thanks.

  54. Bryanna said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:50 pm:
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    Now for the rest of the story.

    During the convention there was chanting that sounded as if they were saying Allah Akbar. Whatever language it was, they preferred to speak among themselves in it. I’ve been told it means Allah is Great. The 51st Republican convention felt like a visit to a mosque. Faisal promised the crowd he would take his oath for office on the Quran and they cheered wildly. Faisal spoke proudly of the organization’s he has represented in the past and the crowd cheered on.

    To Muslim’s, the Christian Bible, the Torah, the Ten Commandments, and the US Constitution are trumped by the Qu’ran. Is this something American’s should be concerned about? Last week Malaysia declared themselves a Muslim Nation, those that didn’t convert are charged a tax to be Christian. The question remains, is it smoke and mirrors and we’re being fooled? Is this how it happened in Madrid, France and the U.K., or is Faisal and his friends just legal, honest citizens, working hard in America so their families and children can have a better quality life and the freedom of religion here in America. Unlike Democrats, GOP’s don’t have issues some may refer to as white liberal guilt but as educated citizen’s we do place trust in being politically correct, perhaps to a fault.

    What is the truth?

    [Ed note: the person who commented has revised their remarks, and I think they better reflect the issue the poster raised.]

  55. Greg L said on 4 Jun 2007 at 10:54 pm:
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    Cripes, Ari, could you frame that comment in a way that would appear any more racist? You have good points to make, but the way you cast them detracts from the value of what you’re trying to say. Wanna try again, and have me edit that comment for you?

  56. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:07 pm:
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    I give up. It is becoming too difficult to counteract the negativity generated by this blog and its contributors. It’s easy to tear down people and the party. It’s much more difficult to build. It’s very clear that most people in here are intent on tearing down.

  57. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:09 pm:
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    Ari Stotle (AKA John gray),

    You are clearly a racist. You are not welcome in the GOP.

  58. Greg L said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:13 pm:
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    Freddy, Ari IS NOT John Gray.

  59. Freddy said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:15 pm:
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    Sure sounds like him. If it’s not, I take it back. But yesterday he went on one of his grand conspiracy tirades.

  60. Bryanna said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:35 pm:
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    Sure Greg, it absolutely isn’t intended to be racist so feel free to edit.

  61. Bryanna said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:43 pm:
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    Mixing politics and religion walks a fine line. I’ve never known anyone to attend a committee meeting and during the meeting break out in chants of Jesus is great, but there is always a first. Not that I would care one way or the other if someone actually did it. It’s a free country. America is great!

  62. Greg L said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:43 pm:
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    How about you give it a shot & I will edit. OK?

  63. Jonathan Mark said on 4 Jun 2007 at 11:51 pm:
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    “”"Johnathan Mark…

    Would you please send all your documentation on Faisal Gill’s history to a lawyer here in the 51st District? His name is Paul Nichols. Thanks.”"”

    I will prepare a bibliography of the case against Gill and list the sources used. I will put it online as GoodbyeFaisal.com and invite others, including Mr. Nichols, to use it.

    It should be online sometime next week. Thanks for the encouragement!

  64. Anonymous said on 5 Jun 2007 at 12:18 am:
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    I frankly have gotten tired of the ignorant comments about “racism” on this blog. It’s clearly (as it usually) a veiled attempt to impugn the opposing side with no recourse. In other words, if I cry racism, all my opponent can do is play defense- that’s why it’s such a crucial card to play. Having said that, I’d tired of the ignorance espoused on this blog by several smoke blowers. Arab, Middle Eastern, Muslim does NOT equal a RACE. Those are nationalities and religious qualifications. So, if you want to pin something on a poster, or BVBL for being “insensitive” (first go cry us a river) then you better know the difference between racism and intolerance. Even at that, simply pointing out problems that occur on a particular group of people who happen to be of a certain ethnicity or religion, does NOT make said person intolerant or racist- it would be more apt to refer to them as observant- so long as they can make a case for their argument. Either way, thus far, everyone’s calls to racism have been not only flailing attempts to divert the issue, but are also ludicrous and utterly specious.

  65. Greg L said on 5 Jun 2007 at 12:48 am:
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    Anon, I agree, but I think that Ari’s concerns could have been stated in another and somewhat less inflammatory way. I’m not one to start shouting racism, as that smear is wrongly used against me on a regular basis. What I’m hoping for is to clean that up with a differently worded comment where the valid criticisms are more evident and the stuff about allah is toned down a bit.

    The criticism behind all that, which I fear might get lost in the rhetoric, is that the convention looked like a pakistani community rally rather than a Republican convention, and I doubt many Republicans would be pleased with what happened especially after it ended. It doesn’t reflect well on the party to have victory celebrations that look more like middle eastern protests than the kind of genteel political conventions that are more appropriate in Virginia.

    Besides, these folks spoke urdu, and I believe ‘allahu akbar’ is arabic. I wasn’t there after it ended, so I’m not sure, but I would be surprised if that is what they were chanting.

  66. freedom said on 5 Jun 2007 at 6:59 am:
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    Just this morning, I was thinking about the Faisal Gill campaign for the 51st District HOD seat…

    Can you imagine, I mean, even IMAGINE the power and the unifying force the Gill campaign would have enjoyed if he were to have led a good faith “World Peace March” … or hosted a “World Peace Rally,” for ALL Americans — Republican, Democrat, Muslims, Christians, Jews…it makes no difference — deploring and denouncing the terrorist threat and actions of Islamic Extremists in this country and around the world? Ft Dix and Kennedy Airport are two recent examples of the threat.

    If Faisal Gill HAD organized such a rally, there would be little work for those who now call for Republican Party unity behind Faisal Gill. Americans of all faiths and all political parties would have been behind him and November would be a cake-walk.

  67. Loudoun Insider said on 5 Jun 2007 at 10:50 am:
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    Were they really chanting allahu akbar?

  68. Anonymous said on 5 Jun 2007 at 12:42 pm:
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    I didn’t hear the chanting. But I winced when Gill said he worked for some muslim organizations and was PROUD of his work.

    He would have been smart to hold some peace rally or give a victory speech to unite the party.

  69. Jonathan Mark said on 5 Jun 2007 at 1:51 pm:
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    What is worse, those organizations included the imprisoned Abdurahman Alamoudi’s American Muslim Council. Indeed, I am unaware of Faisal working for ANY Muslim organization that was NOT founded, funded or led by the terrorist Alamoudi.

    There may have been some, but I am not aware of them.

  70. freedom said on 5 Jun 2007 at 4:06 pm:
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    but Jonathan, despite the “Faisal Gill History,” don’t you agree that he could have made some BIG points…i mean BIG POINTS for himself, would have spared his supporting political leaders (Kopko, Stewar, Cuccinelli, Lingamfelter, McQuigg, Bolling and May) and enlightened our our entire nation, by activly and publicly denouncing those Islamic extremists who wish to kill us and overtake our country? It seems to me that it would have been soooooooo easy for him to eliminate the stereotype. Of course, some will think i’m being racist in saying that, but I’m not….I just want to keep what we have for my children and grandchildren…and will die trying.

  71. Jonathan Mark said on 5 Jun 2007 at 4:37 pm:
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    Faisal after 9-11 was still employed by Alamoudi’s AMC. He would not have specifically expressed opposition to Hamas’s suicide-bombing policy, which was then in full swing.

    So yes, in an alternate universe an alternate Faisal Gill working for an alternate American Muslim Council could perhaps have done what you said, but the real Faisal Gill was in no position to do so, at least while he was working for Alamoudi’s AMC.

    Remember it was in August 2000 that Alamoudi stood in front of the White House and proclaimed himself and the crowd members of Hamas and Hezbullah.

    If Faisal as AMC chief lobbyist had specifically named Hamas and called it terrorist Faisal would have been escorted from the AMC building. His employement would have terminated immediately.

  72. CONVA said on 5 Jun 2007 at 4:41 pm:
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    The Islamists have made the first step in PWC. Look for foot baths in the public schools soon.

  73. DownwiththeGOP said on 6 Jun 2007 at 9:45 pm:
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    This racism against Muslims is typical of the Republican Party, and it’s history of racism against all minorities. Vote Democrat!

  74. Anonymous said on 7 Jun 2007 at 12:27 am:
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    Muslims are not a race, it is a religion. It is the terrorism stupid.

  75. Bryanna said on 7 Jun 2007 at 10:54 am:
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    Freedom said on 5 Jun 2007 at 4:06 pm: “I just want to keep what we have for my children and grandchildren…and will die trying.”

    DITTO FREEDOM! Your statement cuts to the core and says all that needs to be said. I am right beside you in this fight. We’re officially an army of two. Who else wants to join us?

    Help Save the United States of America, land of the free, home of the brave. I will fight for the freedom and safety of this country, my children and grandchildren.

    BTW…Fred Thompson gets it too.

  76. Bryanna said on 7 Jun 2007 at 11:01 am:
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    DownwiththeGOP said on 6 Jun 2007 at 9:45 pm: “This racism against Muslims is typical of the Republican Party, and it’s history of racism against all minorities. Vote Democrat!”

    Only the Republican’s can save this Country. Democrats are weak on foreign policy, military funding and preparedness, and immigration. Could that be why you want us to vote Democrat? Or am I being racist again? By the way, were you the person at the 51st convention who yelled out, vote Democrat?

  77. Jonathan Mark said on 7 Jun 2007 at 12:47 pm:
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    “”"Only the Republican’s can save this Country”"”

    No one is going to save anything with incompetently run conventions that produce overvotes in three of fifteen (20 percent!) precincts.

  78. John Light said on 7 Jun 2007 at 1:03 pm:
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    Ari wrote: “Help Save the United States of America, land of the free, home of the brave. I will fight for the freedom and safety of this country, my children and grandchildren.”

    Well, as someone who DID fight for the freedom of this country, let’s just say that at least I, for one (and NOT speaking about you, Ari), could at least fit into my uniform - lol

  79. freedom said on 7 Jun 2007 at 2:19 pm:
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    …me too, John, but there’s a new battle, and this time, it’s a patient, incremental offensive being waged within our own country. The sad part is that it goes on while America sleeps.

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