Back To The Sheriff’s Race
By Greg L | 4 June 2007 | Prince William County | 79 Comments
Although there’s been a lot of fireworks in the 51st District race, they have somewhat paled in comparison to what’s been happening in the contest between Glen Hill, Mike Messier and Jim Fotis for the Republican nomination for Sheriff. Activity here has spilled over onto the editorial pages of the Manassas Journal-Messenger in a series of rather unusual letters to the editor, and comment threads that in any way could be related to this race have developed into long-running feuds between vocal supporters and detractors of the candidates. It has been a thoroughly bizarre election campaign, which thankfully will conclude with a June 12th primary.
The incumbent Glen Hill has been running pretty hard against Mike Messier in what Hill is framing as a rematch of the Hill/Stoffregen race which Hill won in November 2003. Messier was Stoffregen’s Chief Deputy at the time, and Hill’s contention is that Messier either knew or should have known about the problems which seem to have plagued the department at the time. Messier is contending that Hill has mismanaged the office during his tenure and raised the Department’s budget despite cutting back on the responsibilities it is willing to discharge. Jim Fotis’ campaign focuses on his conservative credentials and experience as head of the LEAA, which is a subject of intense discussion in comment threads.
At this point it appears that this race is pretty much a contest between Messier and Hill. Both have a lot of active supporters working hard to place yard signs, and the two of them have largely dominated the media coverage. Fotis may make a late blitz to raise his visibility, but it may be a case of too little, too late. There are still significant numbers of people out there who haven’t made up their minds, or had an opportunity to really explore the candidates. This week we return to coverage of this race in the hopes that some of the questions many people have may get answered, or at least get thoroughly discussed.
Previous posts regarding this race have resulted in partisans for and against each of these candidates to bombard my email with complaints, and furiously fight among themselves in the comments threads. One supporter of Jim Fotis has repeatedly accused me of being “in the bag” for Glen Hill, who I do respect quite a bit, and of suppressing information about Glen Hill which he thinks is important. A detractor of Jim Fotis has been so furiously fighting in the comments threads that the software that runs this site cannot differentiate his behavior from that of a automated system attempting to post spam on the comment threads, and blames me for blocking him while charging that I am “protecting Fotis at all costs”. I’ve been threatened with legal action for what people have posted in the comment sections. Messier supporters have called Glen Hill a “corrupt thug”, tried to spread false rumors of unlawful behavior on his part, and compared me to the shooter in the Virginia Tech massacre in the local newspaper. Some Glen Hill supporters have gone off the reservation as well, and I’ve had to pointedly tell them that Hill would be appalled by what they’ve written. It has been absolutely unreal.
I ask those who will comment on these posts to remember that although they are not spokesmen for the campaigns in any way, their statements will be interpreted by many as a reflection on the candidates themselves. I urge readers to pay particular attention to the comment threads for these posts, as there are a lot of people out there with information worth evaluating and whom are focused on this race far more than I. They clearly have a lot to say, and it should be considered. Should they overstep the bounds of your sensibilities, that may be something to consider when you make your choice next Tuesday.
Also in this series:
candidate Glen Hill
candidate Mike Messier
candidate Jim Fotis
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed.
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Now that attention is turning to this race I would point out the following:
James J. Fotis is the better/more conservative candidate for election in this primary.
Readers who want to learn more about Fotis for Sheriff are invited to go to: www.fotisforsheriff.com
In a future post I will clearly detail how, on a number of fronts and over multiple key issues, Fotis is the better choice than the incumbent. I will detail why it is the perfect (and much needed) time for Prince William County’s Conservative voters to ‘trade-up’ to Fotis for Sheriff.
The primary is June 12, the polls will be open all day, voting will be at your usual polling place.
The incumbent Sheriff has chosen not lead (or as far as I can tell, event take a public stand) on the issue of immigration and the crime issues associated with the immigration/illegal alien issues.
James J. Fotis has joined ‘Help Save Manassas’, Hill has not!
Jim Fotis has spoken openly and honestly about this issue, Hill has not!
Fotis has been ‘engaged’ on the illegal immigration/crime issue for years, Hill has not!
Fotis has been out talking to Prince William County residents about this issue AND, AS IMPORTANTLY, LISTENING to voters concerns about these issues.
Fotis believes this is the perfect kind of issue where the elected law enforcement leader of the county (the Sheriff) can stand up to the politicans and represent “the people” on a law-and-order issue that is VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM. The incumbent Sheriff Hill has had four years and done virtually nothing on this issue.
Even during the campaign season (often when ‘deaf’ elected officials seem to have the best hearing) Hill seems determined to continue to ignore this issue (and the voter’s concerns), perhaps in hopes it will simply go away.
If you want a different kind of leader on immigration/illegal aliens vote for James J. Fotis for Sheriff.
Guns, the Second Amendment and Self-Defense:
One of the few issues that incumbent Sheriff Hill has chosen to take a stand on is the issue of gun ownership and use. Sadly, its mostly pretty bad:
- His official - tax payer funded - website pushes the gun lock ’solution’ to the issue of guns as a magic bullet… not a word about training, the value of guns in good guy’s hands, etc., nada, zip, zilch, zero.
- The website goes onto lead with a ‘warning’ to gun owners about how they face criminal prosecution.
- Hill also presents gun injury stats that I feel are very misleading…. he should have been clear about the ‘facts’ and given (at least) equal treatment to the ‘pro-gun’ case; and here you can see into how Hill feels about guns, when given the chance to help set the record straight he continues to help spread incorrect information — this is percisely the strategy that GUN HATERS use: Sarah Brady, HCI, Paul Helmke, Sen. Schumer, etc…. .
- Then the Sheriff states, as policy for everyone — no distinction is made for those who own/carry guns for protection — that: you should NOT have a loaded gun ready/accessible for self-defense.
- That guns should AWASY be stored separately from ammo.
- IF all that were not bad enough, Hill is also pushing the gun/privacy intrusive crap about asking others about guns in home.
- Additionally he does not support any kind of gun training, even widely accepted, non ‘hot button’ training like NRA’s,”Eddie Eagle”
- Hill refuses to sign gun purchase forms for qualified Prince William County citizens (BATFE forms)
- Hill has created his own, special ‘secret’ gun approval form that asks many intrusive and irrelevant questions to include if the would-be gun owner has, “any children in your home?”
(And according to a leading person who blogs on this very site, the Sheriff at best mislead, and at worse, downright lied about this form and his policy not to sign gun forms. (This same form SEEMS to have wording that suggests by signing it, the would-be gun owner applicant is signing a nearly blanket authorization to be put under the microscope by Hill’s Sheriff’s Department, possibly including to vave their home’s searched and submitting to an exam of their gun safe, too?)
- Hill has refused to stand up and support the Second Amendment and/or Self Defense among other political leaders to help prevent crime in their communities.
- I can not find a single example of where he has acted or commented publicly in any way to support the Second Amendment OR any instance of self-defense.
FOTIS FOR SHERIFF HAS THE SUPPORT OF NEARLY EVERY SECOND AMENDMENT GROUP! (In the both the state and on the national level!)
Fotis is a proud, ‘Benefactor Level’ Life Member of the National Rifle Association.
Fotis has been a highly visible Second Amendment and self defense leader for nearly 20 years; he has been a leading law enforcement voice that GUN control is NOT CRIME CONTROL!
Fotis survived a point blank shoot out and knows first hand, at the moment of truth, that honest, law-abiding citizens need to have the CHOICE whether or not to have the means to FIGHT BACK against violent criminals.
Fotis recognizes and believes that the Second Amendment is not about ‘duck-hunting’ (all due respect to Hunters!!).
If you want a different kind of leader on GUNS, Self-Defense and the SECOND AMENDMENT vote for James J. Fotis for Sheriff.
So Fotis plan to fight illegal immigration is to do what? Form Posse Arpico style? Random assault people in the community? Complain loudly?
I’m against stupid politicians but I’m not in the position to do anything about it except bug them and imply I will actively campaign against them and not vote for them.
FYI - Louis Dominquez was at the Manassas Railroad
Festival working the crowd and getting signatures
to run as an (I). The GOPer will have the
stronger chance to win, especially if it is Hill,
but it won’t be an untested slam dunk.
Anyone know of any Dems who might run?
Good grief Greg…right out of the box “Interested Party” takes over the thread again. I guess we’re going to see everything said again…over and over and over…
“Anyone know of any Dems who might run?”
Yeah. Mike Messier!
Conservative Politics, Ideals and Values
The incumbent Sheriff Hill has made few political enemies during his time in office. He is a person who has led his department quietly and raised very little ire from other politicians. As a general rule it seems ‘politicians’ like to be left alone and don’t like those who fight for change. Sadly, too many politicians and political insiders really hate it when someone fights for Conservative Values.
The incumbent Sheriff Hill has done virtually nothing to help drive conservative values, support key consevative candidates, or used his office to make things better for those who Voted for him!
My research has revealed that Sheriff Hill did virtually nothing to support key, high-visibility conservative candidates or ideas.
Sheriff Hill is running on a status quo, I didn’t rock the boat campaign. His claim to ‘fame’ and re-election seems to be that he did a better job, that he improved the department from the status it was in when it was controlled by a Democrat who left office faced with scandal. While Hill may be due some credit for doing better than what seems to have been a poor democrat, that (to my consevative way of thinking) is hardly a ringing endorsement for re-election!
James J. Fotis has been a key conservative leader, activist and supporter for nearly twenty years. He helped lead support for conservative candidates from the top of the ticket all the way down the line. (Fotis suppored Bush II when he ran for Texas Governor and then as he ran for President and then relection as President the second time. Fotis supported VA Governor {and US Senator} Allen,
Governor Gilmore, Early, Kilgore and many other virginia political leaders.)
James J. Fotis has been an outspoke leader and given voice to conservative values as it relates to today’s most important law and order issues:
Fotis supported Governer Allen’s Judicial Reforms/Parole Abolition that many experts believe has helped Virginia avoid increasing crime and violence.
Fotis supproted Virginia’s Right to Carry law - allowing all qualified citizens to be treated fairly and equally when seeking authority to carry a concealed gun for protection.
Fotis support active law enforcement action to help address the growing gang and youth violence issues AND illegal immigration related crime.
And, on many other issues Fotis has been out front leading the battle in the fight for public opinion and providing information to voters (on Fox New’s O’Reilly television program as just one example):
Fotis supports Truth in Sentencing (criminals serve ALL the time to which they are sentenced); the Death Penatly, Three Strikes and ‘You Are Out’ intiatives, mandatory prison time for violent offenders, and too many other tough on crime ideas to mention here.
Fotis has opposed: Red-Light cameras; ACLU/Amnesty International/and liberal’s unwarranted attacks on America’s law enforcement officers and Sheriff’s Departments; and bad judges to name just a few of the ‘bad things’ Fotis has helped fight!
For nearly twenty years Fotis has been a dynamic, effective and hard-hitting conservative warrior battling for the ideals and beliefs that help make America great — beliefs and values that I hope you share and will put into action on June 12th.
Of course there is a downside to being a conservative leader and this is one area where the incumbent Sheriff Hill has an advantage, James J. Fotis has made ‘political enemies’.
Some liberal groups really hate Fotis. (Perhaps that is reason enough for conservative voters to elect Fotis for Sheriff — it will help upset the liberal’s!;-))
George Soros and a virtual laundry list of other liberal voice leaders (from Sarah Brady to the recently passed Molly Ivins) have lead a decade long attack campaign against Fotis and the conservative voice he has brough to law-and-order issues.
(I suspect you may hear the voice of those liberal attack dogs again. If you do, please remember a couple of things: when you lead you make yourself a target; it is better to be in the arena trying to make America and Prince William County a better, safer place in which to live and raise a family, than it is to hide quietly in office!)
If you want a different kind of leader on CONSEVATIVE VALUES and LAW AND ORDER ISSUES vote for James J. Fotis for Sheriff in the June 12th Primary!
AW Cheney -
To you everything all over again comment:
Let me see, did you know prior to today that Fotis was endorsed by most of the Gun Groups? Or do you not care about this important political issue?
Did you know, prior to today, the overwhelming anti-gun, gun hostile positions/actions taken by Sheriff Hill?
Or are you just yourself trying to do the same ole schtick…
The election is nearly here … those that support consevative values and issues I hope won’t be put off by silly negative comments such as yours… Could you give us a break and if you are going to attack at least put some facts out into the debate…
If you don’t want information, or (more likely either can’t vote in the PW Co. primary or are already solidly supporting ‘your guy’ without respect to where they stand on important issus).
Just my two cents!
“The incumbent Sheriff Hill has made few political enemies during his time in office. He is a person who has led his department quietly and raised very little ire from other politicians.”
That’s one of the things that make Glen Hill such a great Sheriff. His opponents claim there needs to be a change — he IS the change.
And to “Interested Party”, since you are so concerned with the gun issue, I’m sure you understand that Virginia gun laws are debated, voted on, and enacted (or not) in the General Assembly. Our Sheriff has specific sworn duties, but voting on legislation in Richmond is not one of them.
So to quote someone…oh it’s you “Interested Party,”
“Could you give us a break and if you are going to attack at least put some facts out into the debate…”
Lars -
When the ‘other politicans’ cower behind thier respective desks while ‘the people’ cry out for leadership on what is increasingly becmoning LIFE and DEATH issues (like crime /illegal alien crime) IT IS NOT A GOOD THING!
Supporting doing nothing is not, in my humble opinion, the reason why folks go to the polls to cast their votes on Primary day! They go, in large part, because they want to have an impact… more simply, to vote for someone who they believe will try and make things better….
The only candidate running on that platform (and the only candidate with a background and credability to try and make that platform a reality) is James J. Fotis for Sheriff!
My point is, if he wants to make his platform a reality, he’s running for the WRONG office. There is serious work that is done in the Sheriff’s office and it doesn’t include anything that you have kindly outlined as Mr. Fotis’ qualifications and platform.
Don’t get sucked into a debate with IP because it is all an elaborate plot to stir up the waters on an election her candidate has no hope of winning. After June 12th they will have to find another way to amuse themselves. Fotis is a non issue and will have little impact on this election. IP and Jeff Doyle have hijacked this site and intend on being heard regardless how ridiculous their claims. HILL WILL WIN. Bank on it, get over it, and get on with your lives.
There is another thread running with similar content: “Jim Fotis”
In that forum most of the posters have seeded the point that Fotis is the better cadidate. (Greg L. has described him in terms of being the most conservative…. etc.)
I just made the point:
“But for just one example, the current Sheriff seems to be against gun ownership, the Second Amendment and legitimate self-defense. A new Sheriff, in the form of Jim Fotis as Sheriff, will support and defend ‘the people’s’ rights to gun ownership — and use, especially as it relates to self defense.
Don’t you think voters might like to see thier uniformed Sheriff defending in Richmond, locally to other politicians in PW Co, or to the media, ‘the people’s’ Second Amendment Rights?
I think many consevative voters will stand up and support such a change…”
Sheriff’s have power and influence. Who holds those positions matter. If you don’t think so then don’t vote.
If you think the job/position matters than vote for the ‘best candidate’. If you are conservative, support the Second Amendment, care about immigration, support consevative law-and-order issues, Vote Fotis… if you don’t then either vote for the other candidate or wait for the Democrat electoral process to advace that party’s generally failed approach to Guns, Self-Defense, and other law-and-order issues!
Fotis:
Better on Guns
Better on Freedom
Better on Immigration
Better on Reform (law and order issues)
Better on Conservative Pedigree
Better on Leadership
June 12th, Republican voters have the chance to ‘trade-up’
IP,
I am a bit curious as to how your “guy” will be able to run a Sheriff’s department if he is going to be fighting legislation all the time. Now what kind of leader would that be? I agree with others that maybe your “guy” is running for the wrong office. The bottom line here is that SHERIFF HILL is an awesome Sheriff, the citizens are pleased with what he has done in office and he by no means hides behind a desk. SHERIFF HILL is very well known in Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park whether you want to believe it or not.
I think you are missing the whole point of the role of a Sheriff and what the citizens of this jurisdiction have demanded, I feel sorry for you. Your ill attempt to get your “guy” out there through this blog will not be near enough to touch SHERIFF HILL IN THE PRIMARY JUNE 12! (no offense Greg) I have to give you credit for the posts that you have accomplished today, but honestly they are redundant, repetitive and getting rather boring.
SHERIFF HILL:
Best Sheriff
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!VOTE HILL JUNE 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go you one further V4H…from what I’ve seen of IP’s rationale for supporting Fortis (politicizing the Sheriff’s office, increased visibility on the street, providing the ultimate PWC leadership in law enforcement, etc.), he/she is simply enumerating all the reasons that we got rid of Stoffregen! IP has probably lost more than he/she has gained for Fortis. Keep up the good work IP.
AW,
You are absolutely right! It is maddening to hear/see the same pompous, egotistical, strut that Stoffregen had by the horns. The citizens have had enough of that type of leadership and will not stand for it anytime in the near future. IP has set up serious political suicide on behalf of her “guy.” Although he/she means well…this kind of crap simply does not cut it in Prince William anymore! We need a Sheriff that has dignity, ownership, vision, leadership, professionalism and truly understands the role of the Sheriff and what the citizens want…Hill is the best for Prince William County, the citizens and the Sheriff’s Office!
Interested Party said on 4 Jun 2007 at 1:28 pm:
There is another thread running with similar content: “Jim Fotis”
In that forum most of the posters have seeded the point that Fotis is the better cadidate. (Greg L. has described him in terms of being the most conservative…. etc.)
Are you serious? Read the posts IP, the only “posters” that have “seeded” is you! You are showing signs of a true down to the wire desparation attempt. As a matter of fact if everyone that has posted on the threads that involve the Sheriffs race Fotis would have a whopping 2 votes. You and Doyle. Sad…..
VOTE HILL JUNE 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IP and her ilk have done such a diservice for their candidate…I have just concluded that Fotis must have SOMETHING wrong with him to attract these nut-jobs.
[…] has been covered exceedingly well by Greg Letiecq at Black Velvet Bruce Lee, who has provided background information on the race as well as profiles of incumbent Sheriff Glenn Hill, and challengers Mike Messier, and Jim Fotis. […]
It seems that IP will only respond if it involves second ammendment issues. Where o’ Where is IP when other just important issues are being asked of her/his guy???? IP has Fotis ever been a law enforcement officer for the Commonwealth of Virginia? What experience does he have as a law enforcement officer in the Commonwealth of Virginia? What does he know about law enforcement in the Commonwealth of Virginia? Since you have yet to respond to my question and I believe Henry’s question concerning this very important issue, I have worded it in three different ways in case of a comprehension problem. If your “guy” has none… which I suspect then please state that for the people to compare Hill’s 30 years of Virginia law enforcement and your “guys” _________of Virginia law enforcment. I think this is pretty important when deciding on the best candidate for Sheriff of Prince William County, VA. Don’t you? Sheriff Hill has an enormous amount of expertise in Virginia laws, codes, enforcement, jails, standards, leadership, professionalism, civil process, courtroom security, inmate transportation, court orders…I could go on…IP these are very important issues when deciding on who to vote for…this is simple…Sheriff Hill is the absolute most qualified and experienced for the Prince William County, VA Sheriff’s Office! We will keep him there thank you!
VOTE HILL JUNE 12, 2007!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think what the citizens have had enough of is politics in leadership! From the national level to the local level. Commonsense is absent from making good, solid decisions when voting along party lines to prove your ‘loyalty’ to your political party. Perhaps candidates who fund their own races would allow them to think independentally and not be owned and having to answer to anyone except the American people. Today’s MJM announces yet another to enter this ‘race’. We the people can only hope, Louis G. Dominguez, the independent candidate, will truly be independent and not get funding from sources that will control the sheriff’s department IN ANY WAY THAT CONTRADICTS Mr. Dominquez own words
and vision for what he hopes to accomplish if elected to the position.
Silverfox -
From what I understand — and I believe the financial reports will be available today - the Fotis for Sheriff campaign is totally independent of any ‘financial obligation’.
There has been no money coming into the campaign about which I have heard from any part of “The Party”.
Those who have supported Fotis for Sheriff have done so either because they know him personally to be a man of integrity and conviction and believe he can do a great job as Sheriff of Prince William County or because they are angry about/want to see a replacement of, the current incumbent.
www.fotisforsheriff.com
Feeling sick IP please drama king aaaaaahhhhh and are you drunk
Super pooper, you should run, not walk, to AWCheney and
beg him to give you some lessons in spelling and punctuation.
Vote4hill 6/4…(Fotis) fighting legislation all the time (Hill)
playing golf all the time. No brainer.
BTW NR, unlike IP, I do not stand…nahh, I’m not going there. It is Mrs. Cheney, or her/she to you.
NP run dont walk to put on some clothes and stop crying,,,,,,,,
NR last time I checked the Virginia State Code it is not a function of the Sheriff to fight legislation instead it is the function to run a secure courthouse, serve papers and transport prisoners. Which Hill has done without incident. Fotis cannot run a sheriffs office playing second ammendment hero everyday! Playing golf, shooting range, coaching soccer…what is the problem with you not being able to actually articulate your intent in this blog. Some citizens like playing golf, some like shooting guns and some like coaching soccer. My guess is that you are jealous of Sheriff Hill because he may just very well be what you have always wanted to be.
vote4hill, no, no, no, no! There is no way in hell that I would
want to be what Hill is. Jealous? Of what, pray tell?
NR,
Sure you would….or would you rather be like Mike? Or perhaps you would rather be a cowboy?
Your posts runeth over with self- esteem issues. I am sure if you asked Sheriff Hill to mentor you he would. He is always more than willing to assist the citizens.
Have a lovely evening NR….and remember……
VOTE HILL JUNE 12
NR and IP you can cloud the whole issue with your mess but Hill still makes you all look dumb so sorry wow are you guys going to loose and loose bad
Interested Party said on 4 Jun 2007 at 2:16 pm:
Fotis:
Better on Guns
Better on Freedom
Better on Immigration
Better on Reform (law and order issues)
Better on Conservative Pedigree
Better on Leadership
June 12th, Republican voters have the chance to ‘trade-up’
I love this stuff sssssoooooo What
All the ad hominem attacks avoid answering or clarifying the basic point: What does the Sheriff’s office have to do with 2nd amendment rights, abortion, and/or immigration? Far as I know, the answer is: absolutely nothing.
If someone can factually state otherwise (with some source material, please) then the candidates positions on these issues are relevant. Otherwise, who cares?
The questions, as far as I can tell, are: Does he or can he:
a) run the courthouse fairly and effectively
b) transport prisoners fairly and competently
c) serve legal papers fairly and properly
Any candidate who attempts to woo voters with the above issues is guilty of misleading the public (but quite smart in assuming voter ignorance and pandering to their fears). Any voter who votes based on those issues is guilty of ignorance of the Sheriff’s job–assuming my knowledge of the sheriff’s job is correct.
Am I wrong?
A clarification: My “above issues” comment referred to 2nd amendment, immigration etc. Not the a) b) and c) jobs. Sorry for my own obfuscation!
I thought the Sheriff enforced laws, not make them - do I have that wrong??
Gerry,
Finally! You are absolutely right. The Fotis attempt is about as misleading as possible. But the citizens are smart and they do their research. Fotis is burying himself on the simple fact that the citizens will not be fooled by their propaganda.
Jason,
You do not have it wrong, considering Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park all have police departments the Sheriff’s Office core responsibilites are securing the courthouse, service of civil papers and transporting prisoners. Of course they are trained, certified law enforcement officers and attend the same training that Prince William County police officers do. Police, Sheriffs, Jails and Fire make up the public safety community, they all have specific duties and work side by side to protect the citizens and safeguard our community.
VOTE HILL JUNE 12
TO Naked Republican - aka Jim
You need to cool your jets big boy - you are way too far out there….
Gerry -
One of the many jobs of Sheriff is to serve as the CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer). In Virginia, that is an elected office… hence the political tone/nature.
Among many of the CLEO’s funcitons/authorities is to sign forms (in the instant matter that has made such a big flap, gun owner forms).
The incumbent Sheriff has tried to lead folks to believe that he is something that he is not, tried to hide what is seen by many in the Second Amendment community as an overtly hostile, anti-gun agenda.
Without any statutory authority that anyone has cited, the incumbent Sheriff Hill decided to create what is called a ’secret’ form for certain would-be gun owners. This form asks about the would-be gun owner’s job/profession and asks questions if the would-be gun owner has kids in their home (editorial comment: what the heck business is it of the Sheriff if a gun owner has a kid in the house… is the Sheriff going to refuse to sign the form because of that; if not, why ask?).
The form also has a block on the bottom where the gun applicant signs an authorization that (seems to me anyway) to give away certain rights: protection from warrantless searches? gives the Sheriff the right to enter the would be gun owner’s home for inspections? etc.,
(The host of this site, Greg L., has declined to post an actual copy of the form for you — and all the other voters out there — to see it and judge it for yourself.)
Initially the ’spin’ was that no such form existed…. you see it was not visible (hence the secret label) on the Sheriff’s website. {INMO, it is also secret because it is still not visible here, too!} Also making it appear more secret was the fact that as this situation was revealed, the inbumbent Sheriff — and all his supporters in this forum — declined to admit the truth of the matter and offer an explanation.
Finally, when apparently too many people had actually seen the form and all it’s invasive and inappropriate content, the ’spin’ of the day was, intitially, that it was ‘down in the weeds’ and therefore meant nothing, no one would care.
Now as election day draws near and those voters who support the right to own guns, self-defense and the Second Amendment find out about this form the supporters of Sheriff Hill are trying to claim that none of this means what it does, it is misunderstood/taken out of context and basically it proves nothing!
(This is all made worse by the fact that the incument Sheriff Hill, while not publishing one of his forms, publicly admitting its existence, or his name on the top of the ’secret’ form, went out of his way to put something up on the official tax-payer funded Departmental website on guns — only this something curiously resembled something you might see from an anti-gun, anti-self defense group (HCI, etc.) and actually put the world on notice that Sheriff Hill opposed residents of Prince William County ever having a loaded gun in a home! )
So, Hill created and used a ’secret’ anti-gun form (intent or impact) a form for which he had no statutory authority to create …. he used his office against gun owners… now, some folks think that in this Republican primary voters might want to send a message that enough is enough.
The job of Sherif is not a simple one… when folks vote for Sheriff it carries with it a trust, a trust among other things, that the Sheriff will represent the good, law abiding folk’s interest and NOT wage a private, secret hostile campaing against gun owners and/or self-defense.
That is why, in my opinion, every major Second Amendment group / leaders of those groups have come out publicly (through their PAC’s or whatever) to join in on this battle, to support Fotis for Sheriff, and to get the word out about this important issue/opportunity to make a pro-Second Amendment, pro-Self Defense election ’statement’.
These groups include: The National Rifle Association of America, Gun Owners of America (pac); the Law Enforcement Allliance of America (where candiate Fotis hails from); the Virginia State Shooting Sports Associaiton, Virginia Citizens Defense League (PAC) and folks like Alan Gottleib the leader of Citizen’s Committe for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (and SAF), etc.
As the election nears it seems to me that the re-elect Hill camp desperately want to keep all this underwraps… some have even denied the endorsements/support that Fotis for Sheriff has and attacked those who have told the truth about these issues as ‘criminals’ and liars…..
I guess that speaks volumes about some of those who are re-elect Hill supporters and a pre-disposition of the controller of this website to help keep the truth of some of these matters out of the public ‘eye’.
My patience is quite at its end…Interested Party from Fairfax, you are a complete idiot with the inability to do anything but repeat yourself in multiple forms with excessive verbiage. If you are so interested in the welfare of Prince William County, why didn’t you move here when Fotis recently did? Instead of driving us nuts on this blog with your rantings, why don’t you go to Charles’ (Two Conservatives) blog and rant over there…maybe you’ll find a sympathetic audience.
The fact is, IP, I don’t generally have a problem with candidates looking for outside help, but you are a very special case. You have actually annoyed me to the point where, should Fotis ever run for any office again here in PWC, I will make it a point to actively work against him…if only to get your nose the @$!# out of my county!!! Just ask Greg and some of the other Republicans around here if Fotis should be worried about that…you will have right to be concerned about the answer. I always keep my promises.
AW –
I am sorry you are so mad… why don’t you address some of the real issues that should help voters clarify for whom they should vote rather than expending all your energy attacking me.
Yup, you’ve exposed me yet again, that I live just a stone’s throw outside of the PW Co border… trouble is I’ve always told the truth.. you want to use the truth to undercut me. Odd. (is this the 5th or 6th time now?)
This is not about you or me it is about ideas, vision, leadership, issues, integrity and trying to get information before voters… instead of preparing to issue a life-long vendetta against me, for merely enthusiastically and passionately supporting my friend, whom I also believe is the best candidate for the Office of Sheriff, why don’t you either tell the good follks why you think your guy is better or engage on some of the questions/weaknesses of his that I have highlighed…
Tell the folks why, despite Hill’s breaking his key campaign promise from four years ago, you still support him? Those were his words, not mine.
Does it make you mad that I point out his own words and show the voters the disconnect?
Please don’t take it personal and please don’t launch a life-long personal vendettta that seems a little excessive to me over a mere political disagreement!
IP,
Congratulations. You have managed to infuriate the former campaign manager for Delegate Harry Parrish and have her vow to do everything in her power to secure the defeat of your preferred candidate. That is not at all an idle threat, having known AWC for some time now. She’s not the only one who feels this way, as I’m getting a fair amount of email from other folks who feel exactly as she does.
While I think very highly of Jim Fotis, his decision to have you effectively conduct the bulk of his internet media strategy reflects very poorly on his qualifications as a candidate. I have made every effort to point out his positive qualities as a candidate, and you have worked overtime to demonstrate a dramatically different picture of him.
You better believe people take this stuff personally. Anyone with an ounce of political horse sense would have known from the beginning how local politics work. This is as personal as it gets.
The level of utter stupidity demonstrated in this race is nothing less than amazing. At least this circus comes to an end on June 12th, and I’ll be relieved when it does.
Greg -
I have asked AW to not focus anger on anyone… but if someone is to be the target than it should be me and me alone.
No one made any decision to have me conduct anything; I am unpaid and a volunteer in the classic sense of that word. I chose to jump in and support a friend. Others have made supportive comments of him some have made attacks and the vast majority I have taken in the spirit in which they were offered.
This is personal for me too. I am ticked off at Sheriff Hill and I am tired of the consevative agenda/ideas too often not being forcefully advanced. I have tried to be honest, apologize where I make a mistake, and still fight to advance what I think is reasonably relevant.
If folks recall, when this all started I said that there are ways for a conservative Sheriff to weigh in and make a difference. In fact that was a theme very similar to what the current Sheriff had when he first ran. Many seemed disinclined to believe or see how a Sheriff might be a good thing to have in the battle over conservative ideas (illegal immigration being a perfect example, the Second Amendment being a close runner up).
I think it is fair to say {at least from my perspective, anyway} that there is no longer much doubt that a different kind of Sheriff would be a big help to conservative values and might just help the citizens of PW Co have a better, safer, higher quality of life. The Sheriff is not the solution to all problems.. But, I told you he could use the bully pullpit to great effect; and now I think folks see exactly how.
Initially folks seemed to think that the role of Sheriff had to be completely limited or would become some kind of cancer. I have tried to show how a Sheriff might weigh in — exactly along the lines Hill promised with his ‘representation’ pledge — and to show in clear detail how the incumbent a.) failed on that score, and b.) since then, has run away from his own pledge.
I get the fact that reality might hurt some. It is not an attack on the man, I don’t think I’ve said anything bad on a personal level about him, publicly. I have tried hard not to make personal, mean spirited attacks. I have tried very hard to point out policy shortcomings, failures to act, failures to have vision, failures to lead, abuse of authority, etc. that I plainly see in the incumbent’s reign. I don’t think anyone can call foul on that. Please tell me if you disagree.
Others are free to disagree but most of what I have highlighted, past the obvious straight political stuff/opinon parts, are facts….. might not like them but they are there.
Few have wanted to challenge the facts or rebut them. From those facts I assert conclusions, pose questions and make comparisons. If someone really thinks that is wrong or unfair, I’d like to hear them explain why.
And no matter how all this works out there is no need for threats for future anything for two key reasons: 1. I don’t ever plan on jumping in to help a friend in a forum such as this, ever again, (God willing) and 2. AW does not have to worry about opposing me in any future political context because I aint’ runnin for nuthin, not here in Ffx and certainly not likely to in PW Co.
One other thought… when you offer to back a friend… to have his back, and you enter a forum such as this, with all kinds of attacks, slurs and lies to be your welcoming salvo… you must check your gut. Do you cut and run or stand and be counted and do your best.
I am loyal. Fotis breeds that kind of trust, loyalty and commitment. (Fotis voters I believe will get this sentiment, others may not.}
If I erred, please stop and think about it if you were in my shoes. Friends don’t abandon friends, especially when they are attacked. If my form was poor, my style and ettiqute (sp?) wrong, for that I do sincerely apologize, but I won’t apologize for my motives, they were nothing but pure!
You will not hear from me after the 12th and I will say goodbye:-))
Too little, too late…I keep my promises.
“One other thought… when you offer to back a friend… to have his back, and you enter a forum such as this, with all kinds of attacks, slurs and lies to be your welcoming salvo…”
And now you’re also calling us liars, when the only spin I was seeing here was coming from the anti-Hill crowd, with you as its most prolific spokesman. If that’s the kind of devotion that Fotis inspires, we don’t need it…there’s enough of that in Prince William County already.
No AW, I was referring to a flurry of lies from a malcontent, sore loser in New England who, when the campaign first blipped on the radar began lying and throwing all kinds of personally focused false stuff at Jim. Stuff that he was made about from more than a decade ago….
You can ask Greg L about it… it was quite a flurry, all of it crap and lies… that was what I was referring to.. if you missed that first uh, truck load of excrement and joined in after the fact, count yourself lucky.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear how far back I was referring… it was quite near ‘day one’.
I think you should reconsider my apology, I meant what I said.
I spoke to a Manassas City police officer today who told that the Sheriff does indeed sign off on concealed carry permits. If Sheriff Hill has created some secret form without authorization then he should be not only not re-elected but arrested. But, my experience with these things is that until I see it from a reliable source (not calling anyone here unreliable, just that I have yet to see it) I must reserve judgement.
I really can’t see how a form like that would make any sense. It’s not enforceable, and if it ever came to light the Sheriff would be in deep trouble.
Here’s where I sigh, though: There are SO many people out there who sign whatever is put in front of them by “Authority,” whether it be law enforcement, their doctor, or the even local bank, that I can see a really dumb Sheriff getting away with it. My son’s pediatrician has gun questions in his standard questionnaire and got mad that I refused to answer the questions and told him it was not his business and please stick to what he knows.
This just points out the fact that we have gotten so used to taking whatever is thrown at us by power figures, and so lazy in standing up for our rights or daring to question things that we are led like sheep–which leads to Sheriff’s candidates (and their proponents) running for office on spurious issues and counting on our ignorance and laziness.
Question: Where would I go to see this alleged controversial form? Does anyone have a hard copy? Do you have to be a “certain kind” of applicant to be asked to fill it out?
I’m willing to apply for a carry permit just to ascertain whether it exists and report back here my findings.
Finally, I’m suspicious of anyone calling themself a “conservative” who makes an issue of immigration when the office has no bearing on it, especially if they say “immigration” but mean “anti-Hispanic,” which is now so common as to tar every person who wants actual reform as a racist and xenophobe.
I’m against illegal immigration as I’m against illegal anything. I’m all for legal immigration, if for no other reason than it would be a bit hypocritical of me to deny someone else the same opportunities granted to my grandparents.
I have a problem with Fotis because he is using the exact same code-words used by Jackson Miller to get out the anti-Hispanic vote. It’s sneaky and vicious, and I do not like people using the Republican party to smear an entire ethnicity. Unfortunately, too many Republican leaders have embraced these dirty tricks in today’s anything-to-win political environment, making “Republican” synonymous with “racist” in the eyes of non-Republicans. Dems and Reps don’t need the other side to smear them anymore, they do it to themselves!
It’s a shame that we are forced to choose, even on the very local level, among the “least-worst” of candidates instead of the best.
I support Hill until and unless some proof of this Secret Protocol Form (or whatever it is) is given. I cannot support Fotis, even though I am an NRA member and gun owner, due to his blatant fear-mongering and anti-Hispanic platform.
God, I remember when a Republican or Democrat was something you could respect, if not agree with.
Who’s the Libertarian candidate? Maybe I’ll run if there’s not yet one: “Vote for Gerry! If you’ve got a court appearance I’ll get you there on time! And use extra strong tape when we stick your supeona on your door! Immigration? Talk to your House rep, that’s not my job!”
Gerry, IP has been loudly claiming the existence of some secret document, but it’s so secret that he can’t produce it. There has been some speculation about an automatic weapons permit application, but (keeping in mind I know nothing about gun registration) it’s my understanding from someone else in one of these threads that it is a federal document available at the Sheriff’s office. I may be remembering that wrong so, whoever looked into this, please chime in. IP is blowing smoke, as usual, and redundant smoke for that matter, as usual. If Fotis doesn’t rein this boy in soon, any hope he had of a political career in PWC will go up in IP’s smoke and mirrors.
AW that is a totally incorrect statement. I have asked Greg L. — who has a copy of the form in his posession — to post it here. I can not post it here. Thus far Greg L. has declined.
Please direct your request to Greg L. to finally make it available for all to see… perhaps you will have greater luck than I.
Gerry -
Fotis is not anti any group of people (except perhaps criminals). In point of fact ‘his people’ are immigrants themselves.
He is opposed to elected leaders, like the incumbent sheriff who after four years in office, do nothig to lead/confront the growing problem of crime, esp crime associated with criminal illegal aliens. There is no ‘code-speak’ here intended.
The ’secret’ gun form here is not associated with the CHP (concealed handgun permit) application. The CHP is handled through the clerk of the court, per the Code of the Commonwealth, so it is pretty safe from being messed with by an anti gun Sheriff like Hill.
The police officer to whom you spoke was apparently confuesd as the Sheriff’s office in PW Co does not sign anything relative to the CHP as I understand it. (When approved it is finally signed by either a judge or the clerk on his behalf.)
The so-called ’secret’ form is related to what is called a CLEO sign off on BATFE form 4. (Sounds like government gibberish, no?) I have seen the form myself, it has been independently corroborated by multiple independent parties, it does in fact exist.
Don’t you find it odd Gerry that the Sheriff’s office would hide behind all this cloak and dagger… wonder why if Hill would have such a form he wouldn’t either be upfront about it (and defend it) or simply never have implemented in his name in the first place.
BTW IP, you know where you can stick your groveling apology…I WILL keep my promise. I hope Fotis appreciates your help.
Gerry,
Henry made a post about this form yesterday. Apparently he actually went up to the Sheriff’s office to investigate it for himself. It is some ATF form for fully automatic weapons, silencers, sawed off shotguns etc. His post is around here somewhere and it did answer alot of questions. Good luck finding it through all of IP’s redundant gibberish….sorry I couldn’t be more of a help.
AW,
If you ever need help with your promise to IP you have 110% of my support!
VOTE HILL JUNE 12
V4H, email Greg and have him send you my email address.
Ok - I looked at the mystery form - you can get one at the front window at the Sheriff’s Office.
It appears in fact to be a cover letter explaining what questions need to be answered on the federal form to get a machine gun - it also askes the applicant to acknowledge there will be a thorough background check to ensure they qualify to posess that type of gun.
All I did was ask for it, and I got it - no big deal.
There is apparently no requirement that the Sheriff actually has to do this - do the checks or sign the form. According to another post, he seems to be the only local guy who will - so why all the hub-bub? If it were me, I would say not any more - and tell would be Rambos to go to the State Police in Richmond and get them to do it.
Fotis / IP/ NP ? -whoever persists in this battle needs to know they may be doing more harm to their cause than good -
Jason - your statement that it is a cover letter is wrong; it does not ‘help’ the applicant.
Now that so many have seen it (and none posted it for others to see) perhaps we can call Sheriff Hills - I hate Gun Owners Form instead of ’secret’.
It is not a cover form to help give guidance. It is a complete form in and of itself, the applicant is expected to sign, and it is used as one of the excuses by Sheriff Hill to decline to sign the CLEO form.
The authority granted by the signer of the form appears to comitt the signer to certain ‘enhanced’ exposure to law enforcement (giving up certain rights, like warrantless searches/safety inspections?).
You asked for it and got… and Greg L. tooks weeks to address the issue and then said it did not matter.
Jason you skipped over the fact that given the choice, Hill decided to go out of his way, create a special form, create extra hoops — ones that are not covered by the law, by the way..
So Hill created ‘extra legal’ hoops for gun onwners to jump through. When they filled out the forms the answers provided were used by the Sheriff to refuse to sign their forms.
The form went too far. It asked things that are not covered by law… it is offensive, intrusive and not legal (in the sense it is not required by the law) {some lawyers to whom I have spoken also believ it might be illegal — as in criminal — as well, but that is for another day!}
Ip states on 7 Jun 2007 at 2:38 pm: “I am unpaid and a volunteer in the classic sense of that word. ” another untruth. IP may not be paid by Foris however he is paid very generously by LEAA. Who does this man think he is kidding? Doyle is another one in LEAA’s pocket. He serves on their BoD.
Yes, and “Interested Party” is actually Kim Fotis, Jim’s wife and former NRA-ILA operative, until she got canned.
[Ed note: I know for a fact that Kim Fotis is not posting under a pseudonym.]
IP if you are threatening legal action then why wouldn’t you take care of it TODAY! If it is illegal as a law abiding gun toting fairfax resident call the police and have it investigated. If this were true you wouldn’t be waiting for “another day” and you know it.
AW, it is about that time…….
VOTE HILL JUNE 12
“interested Party” is actually Jim Fotis’ wife, Kim. Her propaganda is unmistakeably “Fotis-esque.”
Want some independent insights? What the Fotis drones refuse to answer to is why LEAA has become a money laundering machine over the last 7 years - one that refuses to disclose where their money is coming from, and who they are beholden to.
Kim Fotis will want you all to ignore the facts about her husbands’ “creative financing” schemes but anyone even remotely considering Fotis should know the truth about him. Check out the investigative pieces that have been done on LEAA;
http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=1713
http://www.stealthpacs.org/profile.cfm?org_id=175
http://www.stealthpacs.org/notebook/
(LEAA notes at bottom of page)
http://www.tpj.org/page_view.jsp?pageid=701&pubid=462
http://www.votelaw.com/blog/archives/campaign_finance/
[Ed note: I know for a fact that Kim Fotis is not posting under a pseudonym. She is a very fine woman who has added a lot of class in this race, and your smear of her is disturbing, in the least.]
Ip , among other things you are dead wrong about that form - I have called and asked for the statistics about how many of these requests have been made, and how many have been denied - somebody is suppose to call me back with that info- you are just telling lie after lie , and I hope you get banned from this blog -
I don’t / didn’t think for a minute that IP is Mrs. Fotis. I absolutely agree that, unlike IP she brings class and reason to her husband’s campaign. IP, along with HIS wife are number 2 and 3 at LEAA. Paid employees of LEAA. Not as IP would have you believe “unpaid and a volunteer”.
Henry -
I have personally talked to gun folks who felt they got raw deal from Sheriff Hill. That is a fact. You may chose to not believe it.
At the end of the day either Sheriff Hill is so bad on the self-defense/right to own a gun; or,
Fotis is so much better, that every Second Amendment group that has weighed into this to express an opinion has decided to support Fotis For Sheriff.
Including:
The National Rifle Association of America (PAC)
The Virginia State Shooting Sports Association
The Viginia Citizens’ Defense League (PAC)
Gun Owners of America (PAC)
Other Second Amendment leaders, like Citizen’s Committe for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) and Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) founder, Alan Gottlieb have publicly come out, strongly in favor of James J. Fotis for Sheriff.
(When is the last time you can remember all those conservative, pro-constituion groups being behind one candidate in a race such as this?)
Sheriff Hill has publicly made it clear, that on behalf of the Dept, he opposes gun owners having loaded guns for self-defense, home defense (and he didn’t even make a distinction for those with CHP’s) and warns citizens not to do it!
Hill thinks it is perfectly okay to create a hostile ’special form’ (without statutory authority) and make would-be gun owners answer Hill’s offensive/invasive questions… including wanting to know if you will have a child in the home with the gun, what is your profession is, have you ever served in the US MILITARY!!! etc. That is wrong! (Can we infer that there are wrong answers such as: Yes I was a Marine, Yes I do have a child at home …. and those answers are the reason Hill won’t sign your BATFE form?) Since when is military service (or lack of it) or having kids (or lack of it) any darn businses of the Sheriff? Why did Sheriff Hill chose to link these quesiton to gun ownership?
Sheriff Hill spout rhetoric that mirrors the approach and content of anti-gun propoganda put out by the likes of Bill Clinton, Chuck Schumer, and Sarah Brady (HCI, et al). In the course of this campaign he had opportunities through candidate surveys, his website, public appearances and media interviews to speak clearly on this issue and proclaim a different position if this were untrue.
The fact that Sheriff Hill has not publicly challenged any part of his record or clarified a single part of this should be indicative of just how hostile he is to the Second Amendment.
Hill’s supporters have said that none of this matters, none of this ‘proves’ Sheriff Hill’s Anti-Second Amendment, anti-self defense, anti-gun owner bias…. I think voters who “Vote Freedom First” might just disagree!
Greg, although I agree that it is ridiculous to assume IP to be Kim Fotis (didn’t I suggest that she should be running for office instead of her husband), everybody should follow those links that TJ Anderson provided…very insightful.
When your debate is weak no amount of class can fix it.
Ahhh…. so this is where the action now is!
Yes, the information that has appeared on another blog on this website has been disturbing, to say the least.
http://www.bvbl.net/?p=983#comment-12104
And the “Fotis for Sheriff” camp has done nothing to refute any of it except to launch into name-calling tirades. I was hoping we’d get some answers from Fotis that would address the issues raised - documented evidence from LEAA that the money laundering allegations raised by investigative reporters are somehow a misunderstanding.
We didn’t get that from the Fotis camp in the other blog. Will we get it here? Financial disclosures are an integral part of running for political office and Jim Fotis has been the Executive Director of LEAA for 15+ years. Fotis has literally attempted to define himself by his work at LEAA. It’s therefore only fair to ask whether we could separate Fotis from allegations of financial mismanagement and improprieties at LEAA. That is a fair assumption, is it not?
Hopefully we’ll see more civility here than we did in the other Fotis for Sheriff blog.
Would those folks advancing the :
George Soros funded attack on the conservative group LEAA
New England malcontent squad who are carrying a grudge from over 10 years ago
Molly Ivins, left-leaning, attack agenda
Please stay out of Virginia politics. Please.
Yes, conservative leaders (like Jim Fotis) have left-wing, out of state political enemies. If they are conservative — particularly if they have been effective — they make enemies from those who support the far-left agenda.
Well, you all may be out of State (certainly out of County), but the issues raised would also certainly explain why Fotis sounds so much like a Republican Stoffregen, according to IP’s frequent and repetitive description of Fotis’ agenda, on threads going back to early April.
Amazing……
Anyone trying to get answers about alleged LEAA misconduct gets labeled as a liberal. Issues aren’t addressed, again, but the name-calling commences, again. And I’ve tried to keep the nature of my questions as civil as possible. Apparently Fotis’ people can’t address the troubling issues that are dogging him, or have been told not to try.
For the record, I’m a Life NRA member. I’ve voted Republican for the last 18 years - and not for Giuliani-type Republicans. So, the name-calling was a ruse to again distract people away from issues that Fotis’ people can’t or won’t answer.
You’re preaching to the choir here Steven…I hear ya. BTW, check out one of Greg’s newer posts…he’s outed IP as Ted Deeds. Recognize the name?
Ted Deeds?
I just did a Google search on his name. He’s a Fotis underling without any apparent law enforcement background. Why they’d position him as a front-man for a quasi-police organization is a mystery to me. But, we’d have to ask ourselves whether someone with an LE background would want to be complicit in the financial misadventures that LEAA is apparently guilty of. Concealing books from board members is much easier than concealing them from your “Chief Operating Officer,” which Deeds claims to be on his rather sophomoric website;
http://www.dead-by-dawn.org/dbdted.htm
Wow…so many “o” words spring to mind: obtuseness, obfuscation, overbearing, overwrought…oh my gosh!
I’ve read and reread the various posts and the only striaght answers seem to be from those who maintain that the Secret Form, or whatever, does not relate to a VA concealed carry permit. So why have people opposed to Hill insist that it does?
If in fact the form concerns automatic weapons, machine guns, sawed offs, etc, that’s a separate issure and is not handled at the Sheriff’s level but at the BATFE level, no?
I’m an NRA lifer, but I always keep in mind that the NRA, God bless it, is concerned with only one issue and supports candidates based on that one issue. Good for them, they are staying within their bounds of interest. Unfortunately, I cannot usually choose candidates based on only one issue.
Also unfortunately, replies in disagreement to my posts tend to quickly mention a relevent point…and then go off on some tangent that is completely outside the boundaries of the Sheriff’s office.
Case in point: What does the Sheriff’s office have to do with “criminal activity by illegal aliens” All the Sheriff’s office does in connection to that is transport the criminals once they’re in the system. If Hill came out saying he’s going to fight illegal alien crime, I’d call him a BS artist, too.
I still fully believe that Fotis and his supporters say “illegal alien” and count on voters hearing just “alien.” I have heard too many friends and neighbors parrot these statements to believe otherwise. The immigration issue is coming down on Hispanics today the exact same way it came down on immigrants the last 150 years. And people like Fotis play on native-born Americans’ fear-based prejudices to get elected, just like so many others have done since the 1850’s. And people still fall for it!
Nothing will make someone lose my vote faster than trying to BS me.
Where’s that form? If it truly as bad as it sounds, why isn’t someone waving it around for all to see? Did Hill “create” it? Is it his or the BATFE’s? The state’s? The Feds? Do I have to sign it for CHP? The people who “got a raw deal from Hill,” what was the raw deal? That they got turned down for a permit for no good reason?
I’m happy to change my mind if I’m presented with clear fact, not unreferenced anecdotal evidence.
IP: Please, please please post this form!!! Please have the lawyers pick today to file criminal charges against Hill! Please contact the Post and Journal-Messenger!
Otherwise…please stop with the Secret Protocals of Sheriff Hill, please stop with the idea that the Sheriff’s office can stop illegal aliens, please stop with avoiding the main points of this thread.
Gerry the form is Sheriff Hill’s and it does exist. He made it up and has used it to make certain gun applicants jump throuh his own special hoops.
The Hill supporters are saying the form does not matter, is okay with them (for various reasons including some who hate ____ type of guns, and don’t want that ‘type’ living near them).
Others are still claiming the form does not exist, or alternatively and with no apprenent problem with the contradiction, that the one online is a ‘fraud’ presumably (and I am NOT making this up) presumably becasue the for profit business that posted it did so in a PDF format that allows the gun buyer to click on the symbol and type in their answers so the printed form can be submitted to Sheriff Hlll…
You can see the attacks better (and a partial copy of the form prominentely stamped ‘fraud’ at :
http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/08/a-lie-exposed/#comment-13314
As a hard-corp gun guy myself I can see why those who support Hill — when there is such a good pro Second Amendment candidate challenging him — are desperate to obfuscate and obscure!
Yours for the Second Amendment (for all guns and not just duck hunting and not just pretty shotguns!)
I voted for Fotis today with my 1911 open carried in a CQC Blackhawk holster. As I left the McCoart building I met Glen Hill coming in so I introduced myself. He didn’t even look twice at my gun, but he did ask if I’d voted for him.
Were are all you gun nuts coming from and why. The form your talking about has always been there, ask the courts and stop taking everything you read as total truth.
The results are in!!!!
Fotis got skunked!!!!!
Glendell Hill 3,971 votes = 61.20%
Michael W. Messier 1,340 votes = 20.65%
James J. Fotis 1,177 votes = 18.14%
Now, where are Ted Deeds and Jeff Doyle hiding? Are they back under the rock they crawled out from under?
I don’t know if any of you noticed this or not, but the “Fotis for Sheriff” website was pulled within 24 hours of the aftermath of the election. It’s as if Fotis is trying to erase any trace of his failed run for sheriff. There wasn’t the usual “thanks to those of you who supported me with your time and money” courtesy - just a disappearing act.
www.fotisforsheriff.com
It’s now fully apparent that Jim Fotis, Jeff Doyle and Ted Deeds have shown their true colors. A campaign based entirely upon lies, denials, obfuscations and personal insult is no way to get elected. But these guys were so dirty that they apparently believed that they had no other alternative but to distract people away from their record of gross mismanagement at LEAA.
Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, where will they scurry to next?
This loss can be entirely traced to the incompetency of Ted Deeds. One only needs to check the financial records of LEAA to find malfeasance run amok. How much does Fotis make? $175,000 per year….Deeds? $100,000 plus…his wife? $60,000… and this is a Not-for-profit???
HR 218 was written by disgraced Congressman Randy “Duke” Cunningham…..Fotis and Deeds were all giddy when it passed….Now, nary a comment. The law has caused mass confusion among retired Law Enforcement Officers who are looking for some guidance. Telephone calls are not returned and mail goes unanswered…..
Thankfully, the voters of PWC saw through this charade…..
Wow! Thank you for including the link to Dead-by-Dawn……Ted Deeds is truly a Patriot. Let’s see…..He plays paintball, he fancy’s himself a firearms tactician, he was an EMT - YUP! He’s Dwight Shroot from the NBC series, “The Office.” Maybe this “Badge Buff” will finally learn his lesson…but I seriously doubt it. It certainly is something when a person uses donated money from a Not-For-Profit to pad his credentials.
I can only hope that when “Gunslinger” Deeds finally is beamed up to the “mother Ship,” he will take the fraudalent LEAA with him…..
Ted, is that “Down and Dirty” enough for you…what a buffoon.