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	<title>Comments on: Jim Fotis</title>
	<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/</link>
	<description>Blog-Fu for Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3</generator>

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		<title>By: Steven Carnes</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13758</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Carnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13758</guid>
		<description>I don't know if any of you noticed this or not, but the "Fotis for Sheriff" website was pulled within 24 hours of the aftermath of the election. It's as if Fotis is trying to erase any trace of his failed run for sheriff. There wasn't the usual "thanks to those of you who supported me with your time and money" courtesy - just a disappearing act.

www.fotisforsheriff.com

It's now fully apparent that Jim Fotis, Jeff Doyle and Ted Deeds have shown their true colors. A campaign based entirely upon lies, denials, obfuscations and personal insult is no way to get elected. But these guys were so dirty that they apparently believed that they had no other alternative but to distract people away from their record of gross mismanagement at LEAA.

Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, where will they scurry to next?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if any of you noticed this or not, but the &#8220;Fotis for Sheriff&#8221; website was pulled within 24 hours of the aftermath of the election. It&#8217;s as if Fotis is trying to erase any trace of his failed run for sheriff. There wasn&#8217;t the usual &#8220;thanks to those of you who supported me with your time and money&#8221; courtesy - just a disappearing act.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fotisforsheriff.com" rel="nofollow">www.fotisforsheriff.com</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s now fully apparent that Jim Fotis, Jeff Doyle and Ted Deeds have shown their true colors. A campaign based entirely upon lies, denials, obfuscations and personal insult is no way to get elected. But these guys were so dirty that they apparently believed that they had no other alternative but to distract people away from their record of gross mismanagement at LEAA.</p>
<p>Like rats fleeing a sinking ship, where will they scurry to next?</p>
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		<title>By: UN_IP2</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13710</link>
		<dc:creator>UN_IP2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13710</guid>
		<description>Oh I am sure they are both gone, not to be heard from again.  Until of course, Fotis and gang decide to run again for who knows what?   As was implied before, this was just an opening for Fotis to get into the political arena.  Fotis, LEAA, or both?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I am sure they are both gone, not to be heard from again.  Until of course, Fotis and gang decide to run again for who knows what?   As was implied before, this was just an opening for Fotis to get into the political arena.  Fotis, LEAA, or both?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Carnes</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13668</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Carnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 04:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13668</guid>
		<description>The results are in!!!!
Fotis got skunked!!!!!

Glendell Hill  3,971 votes = 61.20% 
Michael W. Messier 1,340 votes = 20.65% 
James J. Fotis 1,177 votes = 18.14%

Now, where are Ted Deeds and Jeff Doyle hiding? Are they back under the rock they crawled out from under?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The results are in!!!!<br />
Fotis got skunked!!!!!</p>
<p>Glendell Hill  3,971 votes = 61.20%<br />
Michael W. Messier 1,340 votes = 20.65%<br />
James J. Fotis 1,177 votes = 18.14%</p>
<p>Now, where are Ted Deeds and Jeff Doyle hiding? Are they back under the rock they crawled out from under?</p>
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		<title>By: vote4hill</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13583</link>
		<dc:creator>vote4hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13583</guid>
		<description>SC,

Wow!  Thanks for sharing that link...my oh my if everyone reads that Fotis is dust!  That behavior is beyond unethical....above the law attitude gets one nowhere....ask Stoffy and Messier.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SC,</p>
<p>Wow!  Thanks for sharing that link&#8230;my oh my if everyone reads that Fotis is dust!  That behavior is beyond unethical&#8230;.above the law attitude gets one nowhere&#8230;.ask Stoffy and Messier&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Carnes</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13548</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Carnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13548</guid>
		<description>So, Ted Deeds is characterizing everyone who questions the integrity of Fotis and LEAA as; "George Soros funded operatives," "The Trial Bar," "Various defeated Democrats," and "folks like Molly Ivins and Sarah Brady"?

Is this guy on crack? Has everyone had a chance to read some of the investigative reports that I posted links to? If you only have time to read one report, READ THIS ONE!!!!!

Bankrolling Beltway Badges 
Meet the Law Enforcement Alliance that violates the law with IRS impunity
http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=1713

And THEN ask yourselves if Jim Fotis and LEAA have been trying to mask what is (at the very least) grossly unethical behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Ted Deeds is characterizing everyone who questions the integrity of Fotis and LEAA as; &#8220;George Soros funded operatives,&#8221; &#8220;The Trial Bar,&#8221; &#8220;Various defeated Democrats,&#8221; and &#8220;folks like Molly Ivins and Sarah Brady&#8221;?</p>
<p>Is this guy on crack? Has everyone had a chance to read some of the investigative reports that I posted links to? If you only have time to read one report, READ THIS ONE!!!!!</p>
<p>Bankrolling Beltway Badges<br />
Meet the Law Enforcement Alliance that violates the law with IRS impunity<br />
<a href="http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=1713" rel="nofollow">http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=1713</a></p>
<p>And THEN ask yourselves if Jim Fotis and LEAA have been trying to mask what is (at the very least) grossly unethical behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13433</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 19:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13433</guid>
		<description>UN_IP2:  ummm, yeah... right. As the only "mike" in the entire world I am not only that web guy but also the basketball superstar, the one-gloved singer and sometimes I bite ears when I box. 

Ironic that a guy who hides behind a pseudonym invents conspiracy theories about somebody who uses his real name (that happens to be like one of the three most common names in the country). 

My apologies to the rest if my tone was less the civil; I have an aversion to loonies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UN_IP2:  ummm, yeah&#8230; right. As the only &#8220;mike&#8221; in the entire world I am not only that web guy but also the basketball superstar, the one-gloved singer and sometimes I bite ears when I box. </p>
<p>Ironic that a guy who hides behind a pseudonym invents conspiracy theories about somebody who uses his real name (that happens to be like one of the three most common names in the country). </p>
<p>My apologies to the rest if my tone was less the civil; I have an aversion to loonies.</p>
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		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13395</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 15:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13395</guid>
		<description>I seriously doubt that Mr. Fotis has any commitment but to himself, Steven.  Consider, he no sooner moves to Prince William County and decides to take over the Sheriff's Department, apparently with the same corrupt agenda of Glen Hill's predecessor with a R attached to it rather than a D (based on the ravings of his mouthpiece and employee Ted Deeds), and immediately proceeds to try and smear probably the most universally popular Republican in the County since Harry Parrish through his mouthpiece.  Yeah, the guy really cares about the County.

The sad thing (or, perhaps, luckily for us) is that, by using these tactics, he has underestimated the activists in PWC who are able to recognize a line of excrement when they see it.  Any political hopes Fotis may have had here have been dashed in their infancy...or certainly will be.  That doesn't say much for his judgement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seriously doubt that Mr. Fotis has any commitment but to himself, Steven.  Consider, he no sooner moves to Prince William County and decides to take over the Sheriff&#8217;s Department, apparently with the same corrupt agenda of Glen Hill&#8217;s predecessor with a R attached to it rather than a D (based on the ravings of his mouthpiece and employee Ted Deeds), and immediately proceeds to try and smear probably the most universally popular Republican in the County since Harry Parrish through his mouthpiece.  Yeah, the guy really cares about the County.</p>
<p>The sad thing (or, perhaps, luckily for us) is that, by using these tactics, he has underestimated the activists in PWC who are able to recognize a line of excrement when they see it.  Any political hopes Fotis may have had here have been dashed in their infancy&#8230;or certainly will be.  That doesn&#8217;t say much for his judgement.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Carnes</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13393</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Carnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 14:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13393</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know why Fotis left Virginia 3+ years ago to relocate to Las Vegas? He moved back to Virginia a year later and speculation that I've head is that he was hoping to replace (retiring) Craig Sandler at NRA. Sandler was NRA's Executive Director of General Operations. Fotis has apparently fallen from favor in NRA and wasn't considered for that position. But, why the move to Las Vegas? Just how committed is he to PW County?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know why Fotis left Virginia 3+ years ago to relocate to Las Vegas? He moved back to Virginia a year later and speculation that I&#8217;ve head is that he was hoping to replace (retiring) Craig Sandler at NRA. Sandler was NRA&#8217;s Executive Director of General Operations. Fotis has apparently fallen from favor in NRA and wasn&#8217;t considered for that position. But, why the move to Las Vegas? Just how committed is he to PW County?</p>
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		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13384</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 12:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13384</guid>
		<description>We've offered them numerous times Teddy...want to offer a single example where you and your guy Fotis have acted for the members of LEAA without first taking care of yourselves?  Want to open THAT can of worms.  Trust me, the research will begin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve offered them numerous times Teddy&#8230;want to offer a single example where you and your guy Fotis have acted for the members of LEAA without first taking care of yourselves?  Want to open THAT can of worms.  Trust me, the research will begin.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Again</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13374</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 08:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13374</guid>
		<description>Any one who supports Sheriff Hill out there want to offer a single example of where he has represented 'the people' who elected him?

Time is drawing to a close...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any one who supports Sheriff Hill out there want to offer a single example of where he has represented &#8216;the people&#8217; who elected him?</p>
<p>Time is drawing to a close&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: UN_IP2</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13361</link>
		<dc:creator>UN_IP2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 03:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13361</guid>
		<description>"Mike" posting on this thread is more than likely the very same Mike that also at one time worked for LEAA as their webmaster and is a very close personal friend of IP'.s     Of course he would be in IP's / Fotis' camp!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mike&#8221; posting on this thread is more than likely the very same Mike that also at one time worked for LEAA as their webmaster and is a very close personal friend of IP&#8217;.s     Of course he would be in IP&#8217;s / Fotis&#8217; camp!</p>
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		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13332</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:49:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13332</guid>
		<description>I think I left out a very important point in that last comment:  I am a conservative, but I'd rather deal with a principled liberal than people like you any day!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I left out a very important point in that last comment:  I am a conservative, but I&#8217;d rather deal with a principled liberal than people like you any day!</p>
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		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13331</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13331</guid>
		<description>Sorry Not Again, AKA Interested Party, AKA Ted Deeds but, although I am a conservative, merely calling oneself a conservative doesn't give anyone a pass to bend the rules, and perhaps even break the law, to serve your own personal ends.  Claiming the cause of principle doesn't work either...the concept of "the end justifies the means" is purely UNprincipled.  You have come here and proceeded to continuously insult our intelligence and attempt to drive us to distraction, and that's no way to win friends and influence people, now is it?  You're a loser Teddy...and your boss is going to lose too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Not Again, AKA Interested Party, AKA Ted Deeds but, although I am a conservative, merely calling oneself a conservative doesn&#8217;t give anyone a pass to bend the rules, and perhaps even break the law, to serve your own personal ends.  Claiming the cause of principle doesn&#8217;t work either&#8230;the concept of &#8220;the end justifies the means&#8221; is purely UNprincipled.  You have come here and proceeded to continuously insult our intelligence and attempt to drive us to distraction, and that&#8217;s no way to win friends and influence people, now is it?  You&#8217;re a loser Teddy&#8230;and your boss is going to lose too.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Again</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13313</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13313</guid>
		<description>Back to the Sheriff's race.. I would note for those following along, unless I missed it, still not one example of the incumbent taking the lead to step up and fight a good fight to represent those who elected him... not a single example... over a multitude of possible options and after four years.


Think about it... attack me all you want but where is the record of your candidate on THIS SPECIFIC campaign promise.... Remember it was his words, not mine!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to the Sheriff&#8217;s race.. I would note for those following along, unless I missed it, still not one example of the incumbent taking the lead to step up and fight a good fight to represent those who elected him&#8230; not a single example&#8230; over a multitude of possible options and after four years.</p>
<p>Think about it&#8230; attack me all you want but where is the record of your candidate on THIS SPECIFIC campaign promise&#8230;. Remember it was his words, not mine!</p>
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		<title>By: Not Again</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13312</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13312</guid>
		<description>AW I udnerstand you are a conservative... MOST (not all) of the trash that has been thrown against LEAA has come from:

George Soros funded operatives
The Trial Bar
Various defeated Democrats (judges and politicians)
and folks like Molly Ivins and Sarah Brady....

We do the conservative movement a diservice when we do the bidding of those folks for the short term fun of attacking an effective conservative group like LEAA.... don't you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AW I udnerstand you are a conservative&#8230; MOST (not all) of the trash that has been thrown against LEAA has come from:</p>
<p>George Soros funded operatives<br />
The Trial Bar<br />
Various defeated Democrats (judges and politicians)<br />
and folks like Molly Ivins and Sarah Brady&#8230;.</p>
<p>We do the conservative movement a diservice when we do the bidding of those folks for the short term fun of attacking an effective conservative group like LEAA&#8230;. don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13283</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13283</guid>
		<description>Good comments Mike, and good followup by AW - It does not bode well to set sail on a sinking ship - and bailing the water does little good if you don't fix the leak - I would like to see now that the leak is fixed, and the water has beed removed, where will that office be sailing to - also. That will take another term or two I would think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good comments Mike, and good followup by AW - It does not bode well to set sail on a sinking ship - and bailing the water does little good if you don&#8217;t fix the leak - I would like to see now that the leak is fixed, and the water has beed removed, where will that office be sailing to - also. That will take another term or two I would think.</p>
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		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13282</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13282</guid>
		<description>I'm not so sure about Fotis, Mike.  You should check out those investigative report links, and a previous thread in April (April 20th, Fotis Files) that I was just made aware of...I don't know how I missed it.  My instincts with regard to politics and politicians are generally not far off...and I suspect they're spot on in this case as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not so sure about Fotis, Mike.  You should check out those investigative report links, and a previous thread in April (April 20th, Fotis Files) that I was just made aware of&#8230;I don&#8217;t know how I missed it.  My instincts with regard to politics and politicians are generally not far off&#8230;and I suspect they&#8217;re spot on in this case as well.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13273</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13273</guid>
		<description>...and that is a good thing AW. I'd like to think that the Stoffregen's of the world are infrequent disgusting anomalies to what I have largely found to be the finest of men and women involved in law enforcement. I don't think either of the candidates here, or God willing anytime in the foreseeable future, represent that kind of hazard. I think we are all hoping for, and expecting (nay - demanding) the best from all of our candidates whoever they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and that is a good thing AW. I&#8217;d like to think that the Stoffregen&#8217;s of the world are infrequent disgusting anomalies to what I have largely found to be the finest of men and women involved in law enforcement. I don&#8217;t think either of the candidates here, or God willing anytime in the foreseeable future, represent that kind of hazard. I think we are all hoping for, and expecting (nay - demanding) the best from all of our candidates whoever they are.</p>
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		<title>By: AWCheney</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13265</link>
		<dc:creator>AWCheney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13265</guid>
		<description>Mike, the "mess" that Glen Hill had to straighten out was built over the course of 8 years, and it was no small matter.  When he was in charge of the jail and detention centers, his innovative methods and approach won him recognition from experts all around the country, and I understand he often hosted colleagues who were interested in his programs.  Glen is still only in his first term as Sheriff...let's see what he comes up with over the next one.  One thing I KNOW...he won't become a Republican Stoffregen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, the &#8220;mess&#8221; that Glen Hill had to straighten out was built over the course of 8 years, and it was no small matter.  When he was in charge of the jail and detention centers, his innovative methods and approach won him recognition from experts all around the country, and I understand he often hosted colleagues who were interested in his programs.  Glen is still only in his first term as Sheriff&#8230;let&#8217;s see what he comes up with over the next one.  One thing I KNOW&#8230;he won&#8217;t become a Republican Stoffregen.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13258</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/06/04/jim-fotis/#comment-13258</guid>
		<description>groan... the venom that suffuses this thread reminds me why I prefer to read quietly than participate. Sorry guys but it is neither constructive nor even very witty. At best it is tedious. I don't appreciate being cast by either side as someone whom is owed an apology or something -- I'm just an average guy with an open mind trying to look at both sides of an important question equally.

What I see here looks to me like a classic glass half-empty / half-full difference in perspective that reminds me (with chilling clarity) of a past manager I had years ago; for the purpose of analogy I'll call him Tom.  Now Tom took over our department after a complete train wreck of a prior manager got fired (not criminal like Stoff, but a total screwup.) Tom's entire management philosophy was built on simply not screwing up like the guy before. He literally set out, with fanatical precision, to precisely hit the minimum level of expectation without fail on the logic that our department looked great if it never missed it's mark, never came up short, but in the process we never excelled either. Some folks loved Tom, mostly those who had been with the company for years and had become absolutely twitchy about having a departmental fiasco bite them in the tail. They said that Tom "kept his eye on the ball" and embraced reliable mediocrity in the wake of stunning ineptitude.

I couldn't support that view. The world is always moving ahead and if you are not moving with it, you are getting left behind. Those who felt that the department should "be all it could be" (rather than simply stay ahead of the worst it had ever been) looked at Tom as a guy who simply wanted to insure his own career. Take no chances and you never have egg on your face. Never come up with a new idea and you never get left holding a dumb idea. I understand it, I can even sympathize a bit, but at the end of the day that didn't work for me. Simply maintaining the status quo, no matter how splendidly done, no matter how dire the history of failure, was not my idea of leadership -- at best it was "maintenance" of the job, making sure that the gears just kept turning.

It was easier to see both sides after I left the company and got some distance. I could see how the pro-Tom side wanted nothing more than to get up and NOT have a turd dropped in their lap without warning (sorry, a vulgar reference, but it fits the time.) But I could not see the value in pure disaster-avoidance, I wanted to make a difference, to raise the bar even if it meant missing a mark now and then (my younger and more energetic days...)

I think Tom ran his department in good faith and to his credit he was a miracle worker given the act he followed. He was efficient, pragmatic, detailed... a whole lot of good things. But he was uninspired and lacked whatever spark it was that sees a challenge and rises to it. He was always reactive and never proactive, so we were always chasing fixes rather than planning ahead. To the company bureaucrats Tom was a hero and to the enterpreneurs he was a boat anchor. Both sides were equally passionate on their view.

I have no desire to take a side in this growing mudfest, the only reason I chimed in at all was that I thought a re-focus on the issues (and not the personalities) would be of more value to the rest of the average Joe's like me who have no real interest in the whole blog thing and just want to get some facts. That effort seems to have met with minimal success so I am bowing out with my takeaway from all this:

Hill took over after a flaming train wreck and largely by not committing felonies, by getting rid of those who did, and by focusing almost exclusively on the mechanics of keeping the train on the track and nothing more, is the hero to many. Maybe that is enough for a lot of people, as you say AW, that is all the "representation" you are looking for.

On the other hand are the people who want something more. A new kid safety program, a new way to use inexpensive technology to protect citizens from violent crime, whatever. To them "just getting there on time every day" is not leadership, it is just efficiency. These folks look for leadership in the form of creativity, positive change, and not just in avoiding the potholes. 

Nobody has cited some new program or initiative Hill has launched, in fact almost all of his supporters focus on his success in terms of rebuilding the fundamentals in Stoff's wake. Fine. I don't think it is a fatal indictment of Hill to say he hasn't come up with some smart new idea given the debacle he inherited when he walked into the office - maybe he just didn't have the bandwidth or maybe he just isn't the "new idea" kinda guy (not everybody is, and sometimes what we need is just a good mechanic to keep things running.) But Stoff and his mess is now the past. The question now is where do we go from here?   How long will "its better than Stoff did" be the measure? When do we say "Great job, last problem solved" and hand-off to someone  with a different skillset who can take on the next generation of challenges? If you are progressive minded, that seems a fair and logical question, not a slam against anybody.

Lost in all the tedious verbal swordplay is simply the choice between what is put forwardby their respective camps  as (and for pete's sake don't go on a flame war on this) "predictable/reliable" vs someone "more inventive/dynamic. " I don't think that either desire is inherently bad (badly argued maybe) -- just a matter of what each of us is looking for in PWC. 

I'm wrapped on this issue guys; thanks for the replies, weblinks, etc and for the courtesy shown to me. Best to all on the 12th.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>groan&#8230; the venom that suffuses this thread reminds me why I prefer to read quietly than participate. Sorry guys but it is neither constructive nor even very witty. At best it is tedious. I don&#8217;t appreciate being cast by either side as someone whom is owed an apology or something &#8212; I&#8217;m just an average guy with an open mind trying to look at both sides of an important question equally.</p>
<p>What I see here looks to me like a classic glass half-empty / half-full difference in perspective that reminds me (with chilling clarity) of a past manager I had years ago; for the purpose of analogy I&#8217;ll call him Tom.  Now Tom took over our department after a complete train wreck of a prior manager got fired (not criminal like Stoff, but a total screwup.) Tom&#8217;s entire management philosophy was built on simply not screwing up like the guy before. He literally set out, with fanatical precision, to precisely hit the minimum level of expectation without fail on the logic that our department looked great if it never missed it&#8217;s mark, never came up short, but in the process we never excelled either. Some folks loved Tom, mostly those who had been with the company for years and had become absolutely twitchy about having a departmental fiasco bite them in the tail. They said that Tom &#8220;kept his eye on the ball&#8221; and embraced reliable mediocrity in the wake of stunning ineptitude.</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t support that view. The world is always moving ahead and if you are not moving with it, you are getting left behind. Those who felt that the department should &#8220;be all it could be&#8221; (rather than simply stay ahead of the worst it had ever been) looked at Tom as a guy who simply wanted to insure his own career. Take no chances and you never have egg on your face. Never come up with a new idea and you never get left holding a dumb idea. I understand it, I can even sympathize a bit, but at the end of the day that didn&#8217;t work for me. Simply maintaining the status quo, no matter how splendidly done, no matter how dire the history of failure, was not my idea of leadership &#8212; at best it was &#8220;maintenance&#8221; of the job, making sure that the gears just kept turning.</p>
<p>It was easier to see both sides after I left the company and got some distance. I could see how the pro-Tom side wanted nothing more than to get up and NOT have a turd dropped in their lap without warning (sorry, a vulgar reference, but it fits the time.) But I could not see the value in pure disaster-avoidance, I wanted to make a difference, to raise the bar even if it meant missing a mark now and then (my younger and more energetic days&#8230;)</p>
<p>I think Tom ran his department in good faith and to his credit he was a miracle worker given the act he followed. He was efficient, pragmatic, detailed&#8230; a whole lot of good things. But he was uninspired and lacked whatever spark it was that sees a challenge and rises to it. He was always reactive and never proactive, so we were always chasing fixes rather than planning ahead. To the company bureaucrats Tom was a hero and to the enterpreneurs he was a boat anchor. Both sides were equally passionate on their view.</p>
<p>I have no desire to take a side in this growing mudfest, the only reason I chimed in at all was that I thought a re-focus on the issues (and not the personalities) would be of more value to the rest of the average Joe&#8217;s like me who have no real interest in the whole blog thing and just want to get some facts. That effort seems to have met with minimal success so I am bowing out with my takeaway from all this:</p>
<p>Hill took over after a flaming train wreck and largely by not committing felonies, by getting rid of those who did, and by focusing almost exclusively on the mechanics of keeping the train on the track and nothing more, is the hero to many. Maybe that is enough for a lot of people, as you say AW, that is all the &#8220;representation&#8221; you are looking for.</p>
<p>On the other hand are the people who want something more. A new kid safety program, a new way to use inexpensive technology to protect citizens from violent crime, whatever. To them &#8220;just getting there on time every day&#8221; is not leadership, it is just efficiency. These folks look for leadership in the form of creativity, positive change, and not just in avoiding the potholes. </p>
<p>Nobody has cited some new program or initiative Hill has launched, in fact almost all of his supporters focus on his success in terms of rebuilding the fundamentals in Stoff&#8217;s wake. Fine. I don&#8217;t think it is a fatal indictment of Hill to say he hasn&#8217;t come up with some smart new idea given the debacle he inherited when he walked into the office - maybe he just didn&#8217;t have the bandwidth or maybe he just isn&#8217;t the &#8220;new idea&#8221; kinda guy (not everybody is, and sometimes what we need is just a good mechanic to keep things running.) But Stoff and his mess is now the past. The question now is where do we go from here?   How long will &#8220;its better than Stoff did&#8221; be the measure? When do we say &#8220;Great job, last problem solved&#8221; and hand-off to someone  with a different skillset who can take on the next generation of challenges? If you are progressive minded, that seems a fair and logical question, not a slam against anybody.</p>
<p>Lost in all the tedious verbal swordplay is simply the choice between what is put forwardby their respective camps  as (and for pete&#8217;s sake don&#8217;t go on a flame war on this) &#8220;predictable/reliable&#8221; vs someone &#8220;more inventive/dynamic. &#8221; I don&#8217;t think that either desire is inherently bad (badly argued maybe) &#8212; just a matter of what each of us is looking for in PWC. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m wrapped on this issue guys; thanks for the replies, weblinks, etc and for the courtesy shown to me. Best to all on the 12th.</p>
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