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Secret Sanctuary Policy Update
By Greg L | 23 June 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 141 Comments
Back in May I talked about the policy of the Prince William County Police Department which prohibited police officers from asking suspected illegal aliens about their immigration status when they are not suspected of committing a felony. I, on behalf of Help Save Manassas, filed a FOIA request to obtain the policy, and the police department refused to provide it. Judicial Watch filed an appeal of that refusal on our behalf on June 12th and submitted a FOIA request for additional information, which by law they were required to respond to within five days. So far, there’s been no response to me, but we have heard that Chief Deane has indicated to members of the Prince William County Board of County Supervisors that he will finally release General Order 26.05, which establishes this policy, public. His response to the supervisors in June 16th (yes, it apparently took him 11 days to respond to a request from the Board of Supervisors about this policy) required a four page cover letter to explain a one page General Order, I am told.
One of the things I have been interested in is how this policy came to be. I filed an additional FOIA request asking for information on which third parties the department communicated with while drafting this policy, and the answer I received was that they didn’t consult any third parties — including the Board of Supervisors, but considered the policy in place in Fairfax and Arlington Counties.
Then I stumbled across this Washington Post article from sometime before this polcy was established, which talks about how Prince William County Police Officers arrested a number of loiterers in front of a 7-11 in Woodbridge, and turned over to immigration all of those who were illegal aliens. Here’s what “Mexicans Without Borders” director Ricardo Juarez had to say about this incident to the Washington Post:
“The arrests contradict the public promise made by local police chiefs in Virginia, who made a commitment not to apply that law . . . indiscriminately against immigrants who were innocent of criminal charges,” said Ricardo Juarez, coordinator of a local group called Mexicans Without Borders, which organized a small protest in Woodbridge yesterday.”
Fascinating. In 2004, there was apparently some agreement between illegal alien apologists and the Prince William County Police Department to not enforce the law. Sometime after this enforcement action, the Prince William County Police Department revisits it’s policy in regards to officer interactions with suspected illegal aliens and prohibits officers from doing precisely what was so effective in combating the presence of illegal aliens at the time of this incident. What are the chances that some third party, say Mexicans Without Borders, approached the police department about the department apparently breaking it’s pledge to them about how they would handle illegal aliens, and as a result of those discussions decided to revisit the department’s policy and take what was a verbal pledge and codify it within a General Order? Maybe about one hundred percent?
It sure looks to me that the Prince William County Police Department is not being truthful with the public about how they are establishing their policies, and they’re definitely trying to ensure that the public doesn’t know what their policies are.
This has got to change.
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Tell me when and where and I will be there to protest like the illegals do. I am tired of it, I am fed up, we need a strong voice to go against the officials who think it is their right to profit by breaking federal laws.
A few days ago I saw an illegal woman in front of me at Giant in Manassas (obvious) who spoke no English but was paying for a bunch of groceries with a combination of WIC checks and food stamps. She had two children with her and was at least seven months pregnant with another anchor child. When I went out she got into a newer Lincoln Navigator and drove away. How in the hell is this allowed to happen? Why am I paying for some illegal alien criminal to feed her illegal children with my tax money? Which officials ass can I stick my foot into? I am angry that our officials are selling out the middle class in this country so that they can have Pedro the gardener work cheaply and have a Spanish maid clip their poodles toenails. I don’t want to abandon the city to the foreign invader, but at this moment I am contemplating exactly that.
Greg L. There are so many versions of this circulating.
1. There is no written policy, it is being addressed in the jails and that is the best way.
2. There is a policy. Homeland Security paid $250,000 to counties or municipalities that implemented it.
3. It’s not a policy it’s a directive from the BOCS to Charlie Dean, he is just following orders. All he needs is a directive from the Chairman to reverse it.
4. Sanctuary is a Federal ruling that legitimizes the entrance of undocumented aliens who are seeking asylum from political persecution during times of war in their own country.
What is Stewart’s position on this? At the debate last year he said she couldn’t vote because she didn’t have her citizenship. Is he being soft on this?
Scott.
Was this the Giant at Westgate? I’ve seen this happen several times. We the legal Americans are buying their milk, cheese and other food. Only for them to whip a $100 bill to pay for a single candy bar. I get so upset by this. I could write on book on these types of incidents, at that Giant and another book on the single family homes of Westgate. Westgate still has many original owners and we have been invaded, as stated in my letter MJM yesterday.
Don’t abandon the city. You can’t go anywhere with out feeling like your visiting their country. I’ve lived on the same block, we are 3 generations strong on my street. We are legal American citizens, and it’s high time we are heard and the “sanctuary policy”(B.S.), is ABOLISHED ASAP. This policy does nothing to “protect and serve” the legal citizens, police or firefighters. I think as Chief, ole “Charlie”, should be at all PWC Board of Supervisors Meetings, and listen to citizen’s time. I’ve been to the last 2 meetings. Charlie, needs listed to the concerns of the citizens, because more people are speaking everyweek. I know I’ve brought the fact on 2 times “NO SANCTUARY POLICY”. Citizens are bringing up issues that the PWCPD, should here.
correction last word..hear
This whole situation has be so upset, I can’t even spell and makes me sick to my stomach.
Save Prince William
Go speak at the next PWCBOS Meeting 7:30, Tuesday, 6/26/207. I will be at each meeting from here on out and until action is taken. I’m going to ask Chairman Stewart, to abolish the policy and order a directive to do so and also ask that Charile Deane, be at Citizen’s time. We need to heard, call your Supervisor or Councilman, go to the PWCBOS Meeting or City Council meeting. LET’S BE HEARD, WE DESERVE AS AMERICANS. More citizens are coming out, we need to fill the PWCBOS Chambers.
Y’all should try visiting the Giant that is across the street from GTS.
IIRC, during the time of the illegal alien busts at the 7-11 in Woodbridge, the police did come to an agreement with the aclu and other pro-illegal immigration folks that basically amounted to a non intervention policy unless the illegals were committing some other crime other then loitering in front of the 7-11. In fact I believe the 7-11 said it would be OK for the illegals to loiter until a certain hour in the day(10:00AM is what I recall).
Either way the police blinked and the problem is much worse now then it was.
Speaking of 7-11 has anyone driven by the one that is located behind the pizza hut on 234? It may be worse then the one in Woodbridge. I drove by it one morning a few weeks back, and was amazed at the number of illegals I saw. There is no way I would ever stop there with 30+ people loitering in the parking lot.
Oh yeah, the 7-11 behind Pizza Hut on 234, has had bad things happening there since the 70’s, just not like this. I have pictures of various 7-11 and local loitering. I would like to pass on some good news….
The 7-11 on Old Centreville(next to the trailer park), has a new owner, I’ve spoken to him, he has installed many new high tech cameras. The owner has been working wtih the PWCPD, he’s also adding landscaping, as deterrent for day laborers, etc.. He also, showed me a very disturbing incident. It was 2am, a young hispanc male came into the store bleeding. He was making a purchase of $1.59, he only a $1, the clerk said he needed 59 cents, the guy then lifted his shirt, took out a knife and jumped over the counter, to attack the clerk. I saw the video tape of this, to my surprise, that place had 10 police cars there in about 5minutes. This new owner, really wants to turn that store around. I think he will have success. I was in there one afternoon and I was the only person inside or outside, and asked them “Are you open?”. The owner understood exactly what I meant, and then we spoke for sometime.
Greg,
I’d like to talk to you about the owner, he really wants to get involved with HSM, only thing is he lives in Warrenton.
We need more business owners to be like this gentleman.
Greg,
I also heard, that Chief D., was updating his policy, causing delay in getting the policy to the BOS. Have you heard anything like that? This policy must be made public and published in the local papers including Post and Times.
Charlie Deane stalling…gee now there is a suprize.NOT! This goes right back to what back to what that blogger from Gelnn Hill’s bloggin site was saying. I would like to hear more about what CD is really about.
Why is it that Law enforcement takes their directives from the ACLU and foreign nationals? Why can’t they enforce the law? Isn’t that their job description? If Chief Deane is not going to enforce the law and protect citizens why does he still have a job? Should we ask the Board for a new Police Chief?
I went to Giant at West Gate a few weeks ago. There was a white homeless man (older man) sitting on the bench just resting. Two PWC police officers pulled up and walked toward him. He proceeded to get up and walk away. He wasn’t bothering anybody. He was just resting. I was so upset because every time I go by the 7-11 at Pizza Hut there are hordes of illegal aliens making a nusiance and scaring the customers away. I asked one of the officers why they didn’t go over to that 7-11 and get rid of them. He just cracked a smile.
Seems like PWC police department is being paid off by foreign nationals doesn’t it? And probably with our tax dollars.
Should we give the Chief a deadline?
WE NEED MORE PEOPLE WITH PATTY’S ATTITUDE!!!!
GregL, what can we do about this?
I often wodered why 7-11 (managers / owners) would allow loitering in the first place, they have signs saying no loitering. Can’t they call the police on them ? Everyone you talk to HATES GOING TO 7-11 because of this, can they not see a profit loss?
We can do nothing or else we would have by now. Revolution is all we can do. First it starts with picketing the ACLU branches with thousands of people labeling them traitors to the country and effectively shutting them down, then it’s off to the police stations to do the same thing. Until we get thousands of citizens motivated to do this very thing then there will be no change. Get a few thousand angry civilians wanting blood outside these places and the BOCS might sit up and take notice. Until this day it is status quo and a wink wink from the powers that be.
No park’d, I know from experience that people can accomplish much within the system without behaving like an angry mob. It’s the apathy of voters that got us to this point…it can be the activism of those same people that digs us out of it.
Anon 10:20
Why couldn’t CD, ask the board to change this “sanctuary policy”? I don’t think he’s just following orders. I think, he’s happy,with just the way things are.
Here is an article from WTOP that talks about the number of people in America that do not have a bank account. Way back on page 4 of the article PW County is mentioned regarding the number of robberies committed against hispanics(most likely illegal too). This of course is a major focus of the PWPD which might explain why Deane is bending over backwards for illegals.
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=111&pid=0&sid=1173637&page=1
Every November, all citizens have the opportunity to make themselves heard at the “ballot box.” Before those elections we, as free citizens, have the opportunity to seek out and support candidates who will fight for our beliefs and, more importantly, get close to them and make sure they understand how important those beliefs are to us…and thus give us the influence to hold them to their promises. That’s the beauty of our political system…ANYBODY has that same opportunity. With a little hard work (getting down in the political trenches), some common sense and a determination to learn the process, any person can move up the political ranks and translate a passion to create change into that change.
We didn’t get where we are overnight, and we won’t create that change overnight…but we’ll NEVER get there if people don’t unite and get active in the political process NOW. It’s time to stop talking about it and do something, and I don’t mean behaving like those very people who have perverted our system to begin with. Marching on offices, or any form of violence, is not the answer…making the system work for us is.
I don’t know if anyone has seen other sites such as www.wehategringos.com (click on Read Me First) or www.wehirealiens.com but they too are fighting for the cause. It’s so depressing to watch western civ disappear with our own eyes.
anyone up to sending a message on the back window if our vehicles, chief deane, no sanctuary or something to the effect?
it’s time to get loud and make a noise. Just an idea.
Well, what’s everybody waiting for then. Look at Greg Letiecq…one man: He maintains this blog and continually shines the light (and gives others the same opportunity) upon what he sees that is wrong in our community; he started Help Save Manassas, that is already having an impact and whose membership, in a short time, numbers in the hundreds and is growing; he works tirelessly for political candidates in whom he believes; and he has a family and a day job. Can you imagine what just a few “Gregs” could accomplish? Can you imagine if enough people unite and do just part of what Greg does on a daily basis, what THEY could accomplish? “I don’t have time” or “What’s the use” doesn’t fly in the face of this…they are just excuses from people who have no passion in what they believe, or are just too lazy to even try to translate their rhetoric into action. It’s time to stop talking and start doing.
see article in the MJM police seek help finding abductor
I have seen in the past month 2 illegals right after they were attacked at the 7-11 across from the hospital. I came in about 11:30 one night when police had just gotten there, an illegal was jumped, beaten and stabbed. The inside floor was literally a blood bath and looked like a murder scene. Apparently he had been robbed of a few hundred dollars he was carrying. A week or so later another one was beaten and robbed at the same store. I never saw a single thing in the MJM about either incident. A few days ago I saw a Lincoln town car full of illegals running from police down Sudley . The police SUV chased them by the mall where I lost sight of them. Hell, I never heard anything about the shooting that took place in front of the used bookstore on Sudley about a month and a half ago. There is a lot that is going on around here that is never reported as has been mentioned before.
I was heading toward 28 last night and had a car with no lights on beside me. Two Manassas cops were sitting there talking to each other near the shopping center and did nothing even though they clearly saw him. The apathy shown by the police toward the illegal population is appalling, and the cover up by the local media when incidents happen is disturbing. I am originally from central North Carolina and when an illegal commits a crime you hear about it. You would think by the news coverage that the ones around here are perfect angels. I’ve lived in N.C., Michigan,north east Maryland and now here over the past 6 years, I have never seen anything like this.
I am supirsed that the article I mentioned in my comment above made it in the paper. If this SOB were caught, he could not be asked his legal status.
I am all for it to be a standard question asked to everyone and in doing so, that takes away ” the profling ” card.
I would also like to point out that this incident took place 6/9 and it just now made it to the paper?
2weeks late is not good at all, at least they’ve got something in the paper. I think hundreds of crimes are happening around here, not reported by the paper and/or not called in to police. We the legal citizens, must call proper authorities of laws being broken, this includes Zoning Enforcement. I just looked in the window of foreclosed property, the door open about an inch anybody or anything, could stroll right on in. This property has been vacant and unmaintained for about 4 months now. WE MUST ASK THE PWCBOS TO ABOLISH THIS “SANCTUARY POLICY”.
There is a written policy about not asking immigration status in PWC. The BOCS did not direct Chief Deane to implement it, he did so on his own.
I believe the public will hear about this issue at Tuesdays BOCS meeting. I’m also presuming that it will be at the 2:00 meeting so not many people will be there. I would love to go, but I have an appointment at 1:30. Hopefully someone will be there and report on this.
I might be wrong, I think there’s only one meeting this Tuesday, and it’s at @7:30. Does anybody know? I will be there, and if they meet @2 and &7:30, I’ll be at both. I’m pretty sure only 7:30, ther was no 7:30 meeting this past Tuesday. I’m going to each PWCBOS Meeting, that I can. I’m going show pictures of all the illegal activity, I’ve seen. I’m including pictures of the illegals @ Kmart shopping center in April, with neeedles, more than 10 trash bags/containers per house on trash night, the house with 2nasty toilets that sat in the front yard for at least 10days and many other things like this. I hope a picture is worth a 1,000 words. I’m going to keep saying it we all must get involved, call your local officials, go to Board and Council Meetings.
That’s what I’m talking about Lafayette! Being proactive is the only way to hold your elected official’s feet to the fire. Finding and getting the right people elected is another highly effective way of instituting change.
AWC
Thanks, I’m on vacation this week and I’m devoting it to the communtiy of Westgate. I’ve been out today, nothing has improved around here. I wish citizens would stop crying about this and sign up for HSM and get involved. What’s wrong with citizens we are entitled to our 3minutes, and we should all take advantage of this and get out and vote in November. I’ve had some luck this past week getting somethings taken care of around here. I got this help from Mr. Stirrup and his aide Gail. I hope this week to get someone out here to rid our street of rats. I have pictures of the trash heaps at houses with the screen door propped open…SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!!!
I think we need a site we can share to log crime , etc., information into. I checked to see if there was such a thing and had no luck.
We can also down load pictures, Lafayette. It may be a useful tool to show what goes on in our wonderful area.
What would be the street name behind Loudoun not towards Lafayette, the other way? I should have asked my friend ( will do but for now) He said he stood outside (back yard of his house on Loudoun St) about 8:30 this am and he said that 3 to 4 police cars came to the house directly behind him. They went to the front door and the rest of the officers went to the back. No one was home. He said that the house is occupied by a group of hispanics, any word?
Redawn
King George is the street, just Thusday morning, there were 4 cop cars on the 9700 block of Damascu(at a house), then they came on over to the next block my personal favorite and visited another house. The house they were at on Damascus, we’ve been watching closely…could be the next “MANASSAS MOONLIGHT BUNNY RANCH”, you know just like the house a couple of years ago on Lomond and Fairmont with the park bench out back for waiting customers. Does your friend live on the 9700 block of Loudoun, or the block on the otherside of Strasburg? I’d like to talk to your friend. You know the court with the I’ve spoke of with all the trash, is right next to Chase Ct., which I called to get the dozen chickens remove(mostly rooster), I don’t think they were there to be eaten.
Lafayette,
9700 block. What is your opinion of the site I was talking about? I would like to hear from others as well. A photo album of this nonsense.
redawn,
I thought it was the 9700 block, I haven’t made over to 9700 block of King George or Loundoun today. I will get on it, and report back. We need a site like that, it certainly seems we could have something with some of the “hate sites” out there.
I hate to add to Greg L’s pile…
TO ALL
What can we do about this?
Greg is quite expert at setting up websites…it doesn’t hurt to ask.
…or perhaps he could put it at the “Help Save Manassas” site?
redawn
Correction, behind Loudoun the other way is Copeland the first street of Sudley. Westgate ends there at Loudoun and Sudley begins on Copeland. SHAME ON ME!!
The police were at a Sudley house right?
AWCheney,
Thanks for your imput and I thought of that too. YES, I give Greg ALOT of credit abd RESPECT! After all, It is he, thru the MJM that lead me to HELP SAVE MANASSAS. He is given us a voice and a start to be proavtive! This sight has been very useful and keeps me motivated.
omg, me too Lafayette, spelling errors, etc. Sorry, everyone, I know this is annoying
Lafayette,
YES! That’s it!
Don’t worry about it redawn…there’s only one person that I know who comments here who demands perfection from everyone but himself, and he apparently (thank goodness) hasn’t found this thread yet.
Funny, and even being new to this, I ALREADY KNOW WHO
Greg has gotten this whole thing going around here. He should be ‘Citizen of the year”. I’m motivated by all he does. So, where’s the rest of ya??
AWC/redawn
I would be called out all the time, if they were around. Too, bad, my emontions run way to high on this topic.(Our beloved Manassas). After all this isn’t English class. Are they still teaching English in our schools. I hear of more and more ESOL teachers coming in and good ones being let go. This very thing happened to my daughter this past fall, at SMS. ENOUGH!!!!!
Not to worry Lafayette, I do my bit albeit quietly…how do you think I know how effective political activism can be. I may not be as active as I used to be (I’ve been doing it since 1969) but, when properly motivated, I’m still a practitioner.
AWC
I think you do know how things go on around. I’m sure you were around, when all the fighting over the opening of OPHS. Well, I hope to see ya out there, if not I’ll be there speaking my mind, it’s oveloaded with illegal alien activity.
I’ve lived in PWC for over 45 years Lafayette…I remember it well. Actually, you bring up an interesting point. They’ve always had trouble filling up OPHS and threatened to bus students from all over the County there, in order to relieve overcrowding at the more logically located high schools. Perhaps they should turn OPHS into a special, or magnate, school for ESOL students and bus THEM there. That would really help focus the problems and enormously relieve the situation at other schools around the county.
I love this idea, SJHS, is under 100% capacity, BDHS, is going to be at 140%(not sure exactly, too damn much though). Why should the English speaking student’s have their education disturbed by these children(of illegals)? Where do we start?With Lucy out of there this fall, there will be changes of some sort, I’m just not sure what if any.
There are School Board elections this year, Lafayette…some open seats, some up for re-election. Think about it.
I would like ask Help Save Manassas to open a link on the website as mentioned above and call it OPERATION SLAM…..one door @ a time.
Everytime I drive in the neighborhood and see a STORM DOOR open, I have to fight off being compelled to SLAM IT SHUT.
Just as one door opens another closes…Help Save Manassas is opening the door for us LEGAL citizens to SLAM SHUT those who are not~
BETTER YET….UNCLE SLAM….INSTEAD OD OPERATION SLAM~
Lafayette -
I just checked PWC’s website and they do have a 2:00 meeting on Tuesday.
I have two neighbors that have recently propped their storm doors open. Can’t wait to see how many new cars are parked in the neighborhood.
Maureen,
It is in every neighborhood and one more opens on a daily basis. How do you feel about “UNCLE SLAM” as we wait for our elected officials to do what we need them to do?
redawn
I just came down your road, get started about 3houses up on otherside of street towards the main road.
How about “OPERATION HEAVY METAL”. Blast our radios with AC/DC, Judas Priest, Aerosmith, Sabbath, Metalica, Godsmack, Rob Zombie etc., as we go along and slam the doors shut. Nobody seems to mind all the mariachi(sorry, no hable espanol) music being blasted around here.
What is this about the open storm door? We do that very thing from time to time.
Maureen,
I will be there and report back to all.Thanks, for the info.
citizenofmanassas
True we open our doors from time to time to bring things in our homes, not as advertisement of room for rent.
Lafayette & citizenofmanassas,
Drive around, ANY neighborhood and take note of STORM doors propped open all day / night long, week after week. It is know to advertise a SAFE harbor for ILLEGALS. I am glad you asked because there are alot of people that are unaware of this.
Lafayette,
SOUNDS LIKE FUN……….WHY NOT HAVE FUN…ROCK ON AS ALWAYS….a song comes to mind…”BORN IN THE USA”
redawn
You know, I get around all of PWC and see all of this.
I could write a book.
Lafayette,
better yet…”KEEP ON ROCKING IN THE FREE WORLD” and thanks for pointing out the house…believe me, I AM AWARE~
Another song, “RESPECT”…..FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS TO ME……
I worked for the PWCPD for 12 years. I can tell you this. Straight from the mouth of Charlie Deane. “You have to consider how decisions will be received from the public when creating policy.” This is how Charlie Deane runs his department. If he were to get heat from citizens for any policy he would change it. He has never been a law and order guy. His internal handling of issues is dependant on the potential fall out from the public, and newspaper headlines his decisions might create.
I remember when homeless people were panhandling at an intersection in Woodbridge. An officer confronted the man who was standing in the intersection and advised him to stop. After pointing out to him that he was committing an ordinance violation the homeless panhandler moved on without incident. But a citizen complained after observing this event. It appeared the homeless were being harrassed by the police. Well……immediately after the Chief’s Office received the complaint, patrol officers were instructed to stop future contact with individuals unless a citizen generated complaint required our response to handle the problem. The very next day the policy changed after the Chief’s Office received a complaint that officers were observed driving past panhandlers refusing to enforce the law.
I could type about Charlie Deane endlessly. But simply put………I feel sorry for the people of Prince William COunty with him as your police chief.
Good Time Charlie,
POWERFUL INPUT. THANK YOU!
EVERYBODY,
SING WITH ME…R.E.S.P.E.C.T……FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS TO ME, R.E.S.P.E.C.T…….
This is a entry I made on Glen Hill’s background blog. There are 2 other entries related to Charlie Deane’s leadership you can read but I forwarded this one because it mentions an incident with Andrew Cornell. He was a patrol officer who was jumped by a group of illegal aliens a few years ago at a party in Dale City. He was dispatched to a loud party and was required to use deadly force during the incident. I spoke to him about the incident and he stated that Deane put him on administrative leave as required to investigate an incident of deadly force. He later extended the leave and advised Cornell to deal with the extension because he had damaged relations with the hispanic community. Cornell wanted to be reinstated since the investigation had to that point not produced charges against him. Charlie Deane responded by asking for his resignation because the “backlash” from the hispanic community was becoming too great and he would be forced to terminate him after suspending him and finding fault for his actions during the shooting. After finding himself in a no win situation, Officer Cornell resigned and attempted to obtain a law enforcement job in a neighboring jurisdiction and was black balled by the administration. His last known whereabouts involves him serving in the military. He was attempting to obtain a commission and fight overseas. I guess not the type of individual Charlie Deane wants in PWC. Plain and simple. Andrew Cornell was a law and order guy. Aggressive, somewhat fearless, and smart. Not part of what Charlie Deane endorses or promotes in his department.
A few comments from experience……
I would like to compare the retention rates of the PWCPD compared to neighboring law enforcement agencies. When I speak to officers who are retired or close to leaving the department, the information I receive is that morale is so bad that trainees are leaving the department immediately upon academy graduation due to the stories they are hearing from sworn officers regarding the Charlie Deane administration. I think there is a story behind the length of stay for new hires. I witnessed so many morale issues while wearing a badge for Charlie Deane I am surprised his officers would want to risk being fired by getting out of their police vehicle to initiate contact through proactive police work.
There is other data I think would expose how effective Charlie Deane is as a leader. Arrests numbers through self-initiated contact. When he became C.O.P. the PWCPD was a great place to work, and few sworn members turned in their badge. Street officers used to pride themselves in finding criminals in the act of committing crimes. Slowly I watched Deane change the street mentality of enforcement measures. He immediately changed the direction of internal issues by having the Internal investigations Unit report directly to him instead of being independent from administration influence. More power and influence was achieved by this move. He could now direct and influence the outcome of any investigation. Over time, several great public servants have had investigations work against them for what appears to be a simple lack of regard Deane had for them. But it appears his personal campaigns against his officers has caught up to him. After observing several “good cops” get insanely disciplined for acts which should have produced positive recognition or valor awards (Andrew Cornell fighting for his life while immigrants attacked), it appears street officers have gone into employment survival mode by staying in their cars.
My understanding of this incident from reliable sources was that his first back-up remained with his police car waiting for additional help while Cornell was getting beaten by numerous hispanic subjects. The unwillingness of the initial back-up to get involved was a major factor in the need to use deadly force. While defending himself during the investigation, Cornell demanded that charges of cowardice be placed against the back-up officer. But investigators refused, deciding instead to place procedural charges against Cornell. The fall out from this incident. Andrew Cornell who was an outstanding cop, became disgusted with the manner this was handled and quit. Another head scatching incident brought to you from the desk of Charlie Deane.
But many cases of “Good Time Charlie” investigating off duty personal and/or marital issues have left several officers looking for another department or another line or work (both voluntarily or by firing). When I worked for Deane the department’s citizen/officer ratio was well below both recommended F.O.P. staffing levels and ratios of surrounding jurisdictions. I bet those ratios haven’t changed much.
While at a briefing, I witnessed Deane engaged in a topic involving police retention. I heard Deane remark, “police officers no longer have loyalty.” I immediately realized that someone needed to clue this man into the actual problem………….loyalty is a two way street. When your reputation as a leader suggests that you are finding ways to fire your officers for minor incidents on or off-duty, department members will desert you for no other reason but self preservation. But the great looking women and “yes” men he has surrounded himself with would not risk their career by informing him that he might be the problem.
But things look great from the outside. I’m sure he will get support from the PWCPD Police association. And why not? He has promoted almost all association presidents for their cooperation and support of his internal policies. Another smart power play. The truth surrounding the leadership of the association (which I was a member) is that if you stay out of the way, vote on the Chief’s personnel decisions he presents to you, and not worry about representing department members, you will be rewarded. A message to all promotion oriented newer officers. If you want those sergeant strips, get on the sergeant’s list and become an elected position with the police association and just do as Deane tells you.
I could continue to expose “the puzzle palace” with numerous incidents involving this man. But the citizens of PWC need to embrace this thought. Charlie Deane is a very powerful man. He sits on the jail board, has undue influence in the Sheriff’s Office with the election of Glen Hill, and doesn’t forget those who question policy within his police department. If you feel safer in PWC than you did 20 years ago, then Deane is your man. But I drive the streets of the county frequently and only see a police car when it is rushing to a call. My opinion based on inside observations, as long as Deane remains the C.O.P. you need additional law enforcement. That will not happen with Glen Hill. I suggest if a candidate for Sheriff presents you with a platform that includes additional street presence and enforcement, you should consider it a vote for your safety. Don’t fall for the “duplication of services” garbage that Deane will feed you when he supports Hill in the upcoming election. His support is simple……..he is “protecting his turf.”
“SOUNDS LIKE FUN……….WHY NOT HAVE FUN…ROCK ON AS ALWAYS….a song comes to mind…”BORN IN THE USA””
Redawn, I should like to point out that I was not “born in the USA.” I am a Naturalized Citizen, although I have been in the USA all but two years of my life. This is not, nor should it be, an issue of immigration…but an issue of ILLEGAL Immigration. It is even the suggestion that immigrants as a whole are part of the problem that gives the illegal aliens and their supporters the ammunition to suggest that the issue is rascist or xenophobic when that couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Check out the site www.wehategringos.com that Legal2 recommended earlier in this thread and you will see that these illegal aliens will do, and twist, ANYTHING to further their cause and drive a wedge between the LEGAL Immigrants and American-born citizens…who should be natural allies in this cause. Those immigrants who have gone through the arduous process of coming here legally did so seeking the American dream, and willing to earn it, whereas the greatest majority of illegal aliens come here seeking something else altogether…they are seeking to STEAL the American dream and, in the process, turn OUR country into the very country they left behind. This should be totally unacceptable to anyone who loves this country and calls it home…LEGALLY!
And Good Time Charlie, as was pointed out in that previous thread to which you refer, this is TOTALLY an issue which should be directed at Chief Dean and not a reflection on Glen Hill. Glen has been doing precisely the job for which he was elected…and doing it well. Sadly, you seem to have left our county without “fighting the good fight” in the arena where it belonged. Our County Board of Supervisors have considerable sway over Dean’s job…THEY’RE the ones you should be going after.
Lafayette…
You can’t prove that the police officer blogger is legitimate. Could it be that someone mislead you and everybody else? I admire what you’re doing but I think you’re going after the wrong person. It’s likely to be part of an alliance lead by a handful of Ideologue Republican’s that we have elected to lead in a variety of organizations throughout the county.
You’re making a very strong accusation about a man who serves honorably as our Chief of Police. For all you know Charlie Dean feels the same way about this subject as we do. PWCPD feels the drain on their resources like the rest of us do.
We need to keep the BOCS accountable by attending weekly meetings, just as you said. Let me know if you confirm the date that the Sanctuary Policy went in to effect.
La–you’re all over this, would you consider setting up a private group @ Google, Yahoo and coordinating efforts on this so we can be thorough with our effort. The anti-Santuary effort must grow until every seat at the Board Chamber is filled on Tuesday’s at 2:00 p.m.
Does anyone have evidence of Faisal Gill stating publicly that he supports Sanctuary? Is this another back door deal?
AWC
I have 2 neighbors, that weren’t born in USA, they too were born in Germany. I like to say both of them don’t like what’s going on. They both came to this country,with sons about 7 years old, who went to schools, here in PWC, they had to sit in class with English speakers. PWC, was trying to get 4star/5diamond rating, theat they are working on these days.I don’t mind anyone being here that has come here legally.
correction, PWC was NOT trying to get 4star…
Actually Lafayette, I spoke better English than my classmates (and could already read, write, add, and subtract) by the time I started school…and my 6th birthday was after school started (there was also no kindergarten in those days). I was bi-lingual by the time I was 3. You know all that had to start at home with my immigrant parents.
Of course, I was a precocious child with a big mouth.
If you see a crime in Manassas/Manassas Park, the MJM contact is Elisha Glushefski. eglushefski@potomacnews.com
A citizen web-database would be awesome. Something to report the crime observed, date, date it was reported to the paper, and date the paper reported it. Anyone know if something like this exists? I’d be game to start one if I had some web skills. I think this would be a powerful tool to get some change implemented and to hold public servants accountable.
If more of these crimes were reported then citizens are more likely to take action.
Just to add a teeny-tiny diversity of opinion here, I’d be pretty durned aggravated if the Fairfax County police started enforcing federal immigration law. The force is not created or designed to take that responsibility, it would be financially catastrophic for them to do so, violent crime would probably soar if the police force got sucked into this, it would be impossible for the police to do their legitimate job within the immigrant (legal and illegal) communities if they were perceived to be the border patrol, and finally and importantly, it takes the heat off the feds to do their job and to address the issues that are caused by failure of current immigration law and policy. Any Chief of Police who says he’s not going to use the local force for these purposes has a very legitimate brace of reasons for that position, and the taxpayors ought to at least respect those reasons. If they disagree and want to build a new kind of local constabulary to enforce federal law (assuming the Constitutional issues can be ironed out), they ought to create a separate force and had better be ready for huge new expenditures and tax requirements. It is not an irresponsible policy for local police to focus on their core functions. If a violent criminal turns out to be in the country illegally, his status can be part of the disposition of his case. But the fiscally and politically conservative approach to this with regard to the local police is to keep them out of it except where there is a coincidence between illegal immigration status and the commission of violent crime.
BTW, for similar reasons, I favor requiring all drivers, regardless of immigration status, to have licenses and insurance. If you exclude drivers from this based on immigration status, the roads are made immeasurably more hazardous, and several of you have provided anecdotes indicating that that is indeed happening.
Do you think for a second that illegals would stick around once they know their legal status can be questioned? NO! They’d run to a more accommodating locale.
I consider it more of a deterrent.
I believe we’d see a DRASTIC reduction in illegals within weeks of an announcement proclaiming PWC has dropped their sanctuary policy.
I also believe that jurisdictions with sanctuary policies would see a drastic increase. Like demolishing a rat infested building. They infest the next closest building.
Wow, I had no clue having the storm door open was a sign the house was an illegal safe house. I will have to pay attention to that as I drive around. The usual signs I see our a run down home, unkept yard, many cars in the drive way, and in at least one case, a table in the garage where it obviously is used by the folks to eat on.
citizenofmanassas
i’m glad you now know what the storm door open means. I bet with a quick to trip to the store you’ll see plenty of open doors.
ALL
OPEN STORM DOOR MEANS THERE IS A ROOM(S)FOR RENT!!!
SavePrinceWilliam
I haven’t said a word about “goodtimecharlie”, I don’t if they are legitimate, or anyone else for that matter. I think both the BOS/COP, are at fault for the mess this place is in. I hear what your saying, my husband’s telling me the samething. I will keep going, going,going…to the BOS Meetings. Why don’t you come join me or have you been there the last two meetings also? *TO ALL*
I’m not computer savy, we need a place to post pictures of the conditions around here. Anyone, have any ideas, or direction we can go with this. MJM, doesn’t care about reporting these. Do they even have a reporter for the Western end of the county?
Prince William County’s Footprint as a haven for illegal immigration is already and motion and cannot be stopped. At this point it doesn’t matter what Charlie Deane does. He has an understaffed police department that can’t get a handle on the rising crime rate, and the housing situation invites families to purchase homes in PWC and brint illegal family members to the county.
Lower income middle class housing subdivisions built throughout the county that cannot be found anywhere else in the immediate area act as a magnet for illegal migration. Add the massive number of recent bank forclosures and banks beginning to provide loans to illegals………Prince William is the only logical choice for settlement and home ownership for illegals. Don’t expect your property values to rise anytime soon.
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you…….LaRaza and MS13 gang members.
NOVA,
What a cop out(no pun intended). So, I guess what you are saying is there is real crime and there is fake crime? Or, are you saying the police should only pick on those that are clearly non immigrant looking?
What if new criminal laws are passed? Should the police protest those laws? Should they not attempt to discourage law breaking?
Yes, the Feds need to do a better job but that is unlikely to happen anytime soon. So, we need to use whatever means we have in order to make our lives better. If that pisses off the illegals so be it. Should I not help out law enforcement because it appears they might be picking on my ethnic group?
NoVA, I believe that you are missing what most of these folks are attempting to accomplish: the ability of the police to inquire into, and make note of, legal status IN THE INVESTIGATION OF A CRIME. There’s no profiling here, there are no illegal alien raids being suggested (in other words, no additional level of law enforcement) but, when these people commit a crime, their status SHOULD be cofirmed and passed on to the federal authorities. As it is, particularly with “sanctuary” policy, this is not happening until they actually kill someone, and sometimes not even then.
They are, however, suggesting that it be taken a step further and authorities be called in to investigate health hazards, violation of ordinances, and generally complaints which the police have always been called in to investigate when the situation gets out of control and administrative authority can not be motivated to address. Again, they should also have the ability to address the legal status of the individuals breaking these laws and regulations…and, again, this is not an additional level of law enforcement. Look at as similar to the secondary traffice regulations that the police can only enforce if a primary law has been broken.
NoVa
AWC made a great point to you above. Think about it.
Do live in PW OR FX ?
Wow….eliminating all of my comments regarding law enforcement and illegal immigration. Not really a website that welcomes experienced rational opinions. That’s disappointing.
GTC
I don’t think your comments were/are eliminated. This website does welcome experienced rational opions and all other opinions.Take look prior to Primary, Interested Party was all over the place with their comments and doesn’t even live in PWC or the 2cities. I think most of on this live and/or work(ed)here.
We must come forward and assist HSM, or we could become like the suburb of LA - Cudahy, California. Google: The Town the Law Forgot to see where things could be headed. Also, someone needs to inform readers through letters to the editor about the “open door/room for rent” policy. It was news to me, but maybe I missed something in the MJM about it? This is a great site for sharing info. Thanks, Greg.
It doesn’t matter if PWC is a sanctuary or not. A surplus of low income housing and federal laws that allow open national borders will continue to lure illegal immigration to Woodbridge and Manassas spells serious problems for future education, crime, and social services.
Years ago I worked as a desk officer on rotating basis with the rest of my squad and attempted to have an illegal immigrant detained by I.N.S. when he was arrested and processed to be detained. I contacted the law enforcement number we had for I.N.S. and advised the duty agent of the detainee’s status.
His response was to laugh at me and tell me, “You want me to drop what I’m doing and have someone come out to pick up one illegal. I’ve got 90,000 alone in Miami, you want me to get them too.”
After that serious lack of caring to support local law enforcement, I quickly learned that I.N.S. could care less about illegal aliens committing crimes or being deported for it. Charlie Deane knows this. And although I think he is a terrible Police Chief I couldn’t blame him if sanctuary is part of his official position. Although I wouldn’t publically admit it. Without federal assistance he is almost powerless to do anything about it. If it upsets you then your energy should be focused on federal legislation and those politicians who are weak on border security and immigration policy.
4 entries I posted over the last 24 hrs are gone
Legal2
I will get someone to write to MJM, about the open doors. I don’t think alot people know, so pass this info on, in the meantime.They won’t publish another letter from me, for 27 days. I’m sure I can find someone to do this. Does anybody want to write this letter, help me out here. How about redawn, AWC, Ari, Maureen, Patty…???
Lafayette, I was as unaware of the “open door” significance as citizenofmanassas was, so I’m not the one to write the letter. One of you who has noticed and is most aware of the practice should go ahead and do it.
redawn
You need to write to MJM about open doors. Have you closed that door yet? We’ve talking about this for months now.
AWC AND ALL
I doubt they’d publish this expose.
LaFayette: I live in Fairfax, although my view would be the same anywhere with regard to use of local constabulary to address federal immigration law issues. I realize that the impacts of illegal immigration may be worse in some pockets than others. That doesn’t affect my policy view. I live very near an area that seems to be heavily impacted by recent immigration (Unlike some of the commenters here, I can’t tell by looking at them who’s legal and who isn’t, but my guess is that a fair number of folks I see around here do not have tourist visas or green cards). So I have some awareness of the problems others have raised here. The questions are whether these problems can be dealt with through traditional local law enforcement and, if not, will they effectively be diminished at a reasonable cost (monetary and otherwise) by injecting local police activity into immigration status inquiry.
CoM: My point is: use local police to enforce local ordinances. I am not advocating that only U.S. citizens be prosecuted for such violations. If a lawful or unlawful alien doesn’t take care of his trash or robs a bank, I would not advocate ignoring it in favor of looking for a citizen who doesn’t take care of his trash or robs a bank. Go after both aggressively.
AWC makes good points (as always), but my sense of it is that the better policy is to address a car theft as a car theft, a red-light violation as a red-light violation, a maximum occupancy breach as a maximum occupancy breach, a murder as a murder. All of these are violations of state statutes or local ordinances and can be effectively dealt with as such, regardless of the national status of the perpetrator. And, frankly, I would rather have a violent criminal locked in our system than have him/her deported or remanded to some system that might not be as secure as our own. I would want to know a lot more about the federal policies with regard to persons whose status is being reported by locals before I could conclude that it is in the interests of the local police or local citizens to have their community law enforcement getting very much involved in that end of the business (including investigating the particulars of their immigration status). Frankly, I don’t have great confidence that my local police are any better positioned to do this than they are to enforce federal securities laws or check on my IRS status when they pull me over for a rolling stop.
The lines between federal and local law enforcement are fairly important in this Republic. No question that the federal immigration policy is busted and needs a thorough fixing, but I’m not as convinced as others here that throwing the local police into the fray is a good idea. I can see some definite downsides re crime prevention, peace-keeping, financial load on local taxpayors and immigration policy reform.
As you can see Good Time Charlie, if you stay on topic and don’t attempt to hijack the thread in another direction, your comments are welcome and remain.
This has become an exellent thread with people brainstorming this very real problem and, perhaps, coming up with recommendations for some possible solutions, and certainly avenues to explore. It would be a shame if it got sidetracked in a totally different direction.
NoVA, as I understand it, when an illegal alien is arrested for a crime and the federal authorities are notified of his status, the feds do not take custody until the crime itself is adjudicated and the criminal has served his time, or whatever punishment…THEN the Feds take custody and he/she is deported (goes through deportation proceedings). The idea is…they get away with nothing!
Must be sunspots or planets aligning as for second time in a week, I find myself in full agreement with NoVA Scout.
Nova,
Do you think local police should enforce Federal drug laws?
NoVA Scout, I think you might be missing the point on how most legislators(who are willing to address this issue) want to use local law enforcement for immigration enforcements efforts.
I.C.E. training for local police would not have the local police asking every hispanic or foreign born person they see for a greencard. The local police would only be able to deport illegal aliens who are first arrested for a local or state criminal code. Most of the agreements between the local police who participate with the Department of Homeland Security (those local govts that have decided to participate in the 287g program) only include felonies and some class1 misdemeanors. They rarely include any traffic offense including D.U.I.
As I understand, Homeland Security even pays the locality for the cost of jailing the illigal alien for the time between when his local jail sentence is over to when he is picked up for deportation by the feds.
This is a great win-win situation. It has the local police leaving alone the otherwise “law-abiding illegal alien” ( YES everyone, I know, I know, they already broke the law just being illegal) and helping the feds to deport the ones who are criminally minded.
In the short and long run I think this Idea will actually save taxpayer money by getting rid of the criminals, who cost society untold amounts of $$$.
AWCheney,
All of my entries have involved immigration issues on this thread. You just didn’t agree with my points of view. I don’t understand how anyone complaining about immigration and the problems it has brought to PWC wouldn’t want as much street enforcement as possible. Like mentioned on an earlier post that was erased………I steadily watched the D.W.I./hit& run/no operators license/no insurance incidents raise steadily while working the streets of Prince William. I can only imagine how out of control it is now. But people only perceive it as a problem when it happens to them.
Illegal immigration is a major factor for this type of incident in PWC. Although not a statistic you will find in a crime report, I saw it with my own eyes. Our streets just need more enforcement…….and illegal immigration is one of many causes for needing additional badges on the street with arrest powers.
My bet is that you have this entry also vanish.
Doubtful GTC…you were on-topic, which is no doubt why it survived moderation.
AWCheney, I apologize if I offended and was not my intention about the song ” Born in the USA”…off the top of my head during that time. I have friends and a family memeber were not born in the USA, but have legal status and I love them
thanks for pointing that out. ( moment of lip with out thinking)
Layfayette,
We will get together re: storm doors. I am already working on a letter to the MJM in reguards to how my kids are being influenced by illegals who are CO SCHOOL MATES and neighbors.
You didn’t offend me Redawn…I just used that comment to point out to anyone who might be following this thread that in no way is this an issue about anything but ILLEGAL aliens. I should actually thank you for the opportunity.
NOVA-
Have you done any rerearch on crime illegals commit, especially DUI’s? It is estimated that criminal illegals have committed 4 to 6 crimes before they are ever deported. Most of them are serious crimes. Would you change your mind about having sanctuary policies if your family is a victim of an illegal who is driving while intoxicated? Go to this site and see some of the stats.
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=93408&ran=120909&tref=po
There is no reason that this happens, except our government and some police departments are willing to turn a blind eye on how illegal aliens are negatively affecting thousands of Americans lives, by breaking OUR laws.
When there are no consequences for illegal aliens, when you make it easy to be here, they will come. Let’s start making it harder on them. DEPORTATION through ATTRITION!
AWCheney,
I always look for the “good” in something “bad” and that was my “bad”. Words are powerful and I share your views. As you know, I have stated before, I am new to this whole thing.
I would also like to point out that yes, I was born in the USA, right here in Manassas, as well as my husband and our children.. I did NOTHING but that. I was ” lucky” that I was born here.
People that were not BORN here and have gone thru the proper channels to become US citizens, have in my opinion, a better understanding, and more of a voice than I that, have simply been born in the USA. I would also like to say I have so much respect for those that have done so and are FIGHTING for OUR rights.
I would also like to share with you , that my family would be very disappointed in me, that because of THIER hardships, convictions, I WAS BORN HERE and have done nothing. ( Honestly, I never really knew how to go about it, sounded to complicated and who would listen to me)
My family has paved the way for me to be here and go figure, they were political.
I speak of my family who came over on ” the Mayflower”, had the first Thanksgiving that we celebrate each year in America. ( funny..not really but how you take things for granted)
I am the 8th generation of the pilgrims, Gov. John bradford, Pricilla Mullins and George Soule. If they were here today @ least I can say it is never too late to get involved and yes, I HAVE PROOF~
I would just like to quickly say that I agree with everything written on here that we should do. But please be careful making statements that certain people are illegal. I wonder how you are so sure that someone being chased by the police is illegal just because he is hispanic or just because he is loitering at the 7-11. I want to fix just like everyone else and agressively as possible including deporting any illegal including their children who were born here, although that will never happen. Just please don’t spoil what little progress we mak by accussing someone of being illegal just because he is of hispanic descent.
Maureen Wood said on 24 Jun 2007 at 7:05 pm:
“There is no reason that this happens, except our government and some police departments are willing to turn a blind eye on how illegal aliens are negatively affecting thousands of Americans lives, by breaking OUR laws.”
287g is very complex. I am a bit familiar with this program and can tell you that the police departments are not turning a blind eye. It is not that simple! There is alot of red tape to this program. It is NOT a local program. It is federally funded and in high demand, not just here. If anything is going to change in our area, it will only be with the federal powers to be..again locals don’t run this program.
Think about it…if it were that simple and the police could request for any illegal to be deported, would we be having this problem? No…
Fortunately, we have this program to potentially tap into…take a look at Miami and how out of control that area is without having this type of program available to them years ago…although I think it is critical that we the citizens stay on top of this, we are pointing fingers at the wrong people.
One more thing…as mentioned in previous posts…Deane and Hill are both on the Jail Board….and if memory serves me correct the Jail has been directed to start the 287g program.
Maureen: I’ve reviewed a lot of data on immigrant crime, and while some of this is murky, the prevailing view is that crime rates among the illegal immigrant population is below that of the general population. The best way to deal with traffic offenses is to make sure these people have an easy path to licensing and mandatory insurance requirements. The harder one makes it for them to get into the testing program (rudimentary though it is) the more incompetent drivers we have on the road. But to address your inquiry directly, I fully support treating DUI as aggressively for illegal aliens as for citizens. I see no reason why there should be any distinction based on national status. I would be equally irate if any of my family were killed or maimed by any drunken driver - citizen, non-citizen, or illegal. Their immigration status would be fairly far down on the list of my emotional distress at that point.
Citizen Sam,
Very good point. Charlie Dean should follow your advice, as he thinks the only folks in this Country that are illegal are hispanic. Hence his reservation of having an aggressive program to target illegals since in his words he does not want to alienate the hispanic population.
Funny how some people(not saying you) who do support illegal aliens only want to point out that those against it seem to think only hispanics can be illegal. When in fact they are the ones who pushing the notion that all illegals are hispanic.
Nova scout,
If an illegal commits only a single crime while in the Country it is one too many crimes being committed since they should not have been here in the first place. Furthermore it weakens the argument used by those that do support illegals that they have only come here to do “jobs that Americans do not want to do.”
To argue they have a lower crime rate(when in reality, they are already criminals because they have entered the Nation illegally to start with) is a pretty weak point.
So you solution to the problem is to just give them driver licenses? Well gee since they are here, lets provide them with even more tax supported benefits. Yup, that sure does make sense.
Of course you do realize by giving them a driver license, you also make it possible for them to register to vote, to enter Federal buildings, and to fly. Are you still fine with that?
I, too, am sick and tired of losing my community to the aliens. Manassas will be Tijuana before long. I started writing letters 2 years ago to MJM about the lack of assimilation. Nothing is being done. Yes, County and City police try but their hands get tied sometimes. One of the other bigger problems I see are THE COURTS!!! Someone gets arrested and THE MAGISTRATE lets him go with a “promise to appear”. How many really appear? If the perp does make it to Court, the judge slaps them on the wrist and lets them go. If there is a sentence handed down, it is either suspended or cut in half. I don’t care if the jail is full, let them sleep on the floor. Do you think we’d get the same consideration if we were in a Mexican jail? Sure, come to America, come to Virginia, commit any crime you want and get away with it if you are Latino. They don’t want to assimilate, they want to be separate. There is even a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce being started. There are Hispanic business networking groups being started. Do we need to band together and march on City Hall to get something done? Sadly enough, and I hope I am wrong, but I feel there is going to be some sort of Civil/Latino uprising/riots coming in Manassas. How dare they come here in make demands. I think I’d better to take a blood pressure pill.
I, too, and tired of the illegals taking over and making demands. How dare they!!Unfortunately, our leadership is giving into them. If our government would stop handing out welfare checks and WIC coupons to those who can work, we’d have the Americans to do all the jobs. I started writing to MJM 2 years ago that Latinos did not want to assimilate and now there is going to be a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce and Hispanic business networking groups. Manassas will be Tijuana soon and it makes me sick to see all of this. We are all taking a beating. The police try, they make arrests and THE MAGISTRATE will let the perp go “on promise to appear”. How many appear? Those that do get a slap on the wrist. I don’t care if the jails are full, let them sleep on the floor. The COURTS need to do something too. Do we need to band together and march on City Hall?Yes, if police could ask legal status and act on that, I do believe we would see a decrease in Latino population. Sadly enough, and I hope I am wrong, I foresee some sort of civil uprising/riot. I get frustrated because I don’t think those in power are paying any attention. I think I’ll go take a blood pressure pill. We need to do something and SOON.
anon said on 24 Jun 2007 at 8:33 pm:
I am very aware of the 287g program and how it works. It’s a great tool to use to help combat illegals in our country. I still find it hard to swallow the fact that Chief Deane took it upon himself to institute a policy that adversely affects the majority of residents in this area. To say his officers aren’t allowed to ask immigration status does hurt the community at large. It means even if an illegal commits a felony, ICE would never be called.
As for the 287G at the detention center, the officers have gone to training for that already. I haven’t heard an update on this though.
I have no idea what NovaScout’s personal experience is with illegals, but my experience paints a vastly different picture than what the illegal alien apologist talking points that he is promoting. In the ADC, my understanding is that out of a population of about 400, 80 are known to be illegal aliens although there hasn’t been screening conducted under the 287(g) program yet. Either there is a huge population of illegals in the county we don’t know about, or they are offending at a rate far higher than any other identifiable group.
I spent a good portion of yesterday on Cabbel Drive in Manassas Park talking to residents, and their experience is utterly harrowing. What was previously a stable and unremarkable neighborhood seems to have about 30% of the homes overcrowded by up to 20 people, there are regular police raids, crime on that street has gone through the roof and the residents feel like they’re under assault. If anyone thinks these illegals are such good neighbors, they ought to go talk to the folks who are subjected to their antics.
These folks want the illegal aliens gone, not handed some free pass to continue destroying these communities. They are justifiably concerned for their safety and the safety of their children, sick of the noise, trash, rats, parking problems, gang-bangers, vacant houses, degradation of the appearance of their community and it’s general transformation into something that looks more like the third world than Virginia.
Come with me some weekend and see for yourself what illegal aliens actually cause. Those goofy statistics won’t mean squat to you afterwards, I guarantee you.
In regards to the Section 287(g) program being “complex”, it’s only complex because groups that oppose it try to confuse people about what it is.
The program allows police officers or jail personnel to act as ICE agents under ICE supervision to screen detainees suspected of serious felonies or misdemeanors for being illegal aliens and process those persons identified for deportation, which would be done after they have completed their sentences. It’s actually a very straightforward program. The effect is instead of releasing criminal illegal aliens back into society at the completion of their sentence, they are deported.
It doesn’t empower police officers to raid houses looking for illegals, set up traffic stops to catch illegals, or do workplace enforcement. All it does is say that if you catch a criminal who has committed a serious crime, and he’s an illegal, he gets deported instead of set free when he’s served his sentence.
How “complex” is that? About the only complex thing about this is the extensive training given to officers under the 287(g) program in protecting the civil rights of those they interact with, which amounts to a significant portion of the training they receive.
Greg’s right, it’s not complex. I’ve been thinking about this for sometime now. We really have no way of knowing how crimes are being committed by illegals, because they are only asked if it’s a felony. If suspected illegals were asked of their status no matter what the crime, this place wouldn’t be so inviting. Why are we letting these people back on the streets to commit more crimes, more than likely the next crime would be more serious.
correction
no way of knowing how MANY crimes are
Read my two previous duplicate comments that made it in late tonight at 10:44 and 11:14. Since the police cannot ask legal status, if the perps do make it in front of the Judges, why can’t the Judges ask them if they are illegal? At that point, the Judge could make the decision to hold them over, no matter what crime they’ve been accused of, be it misdeameanor or felony. Being here illegally is a CRIME and since they are already in front of the Judge, let them get held over. They are supposed to be “sworn in” - so lets see how many of them lie their way out of it. The Courts are swamped with these people - go make a visit over there one day. Problem solved - and the police do not have to make the determination. Lets hold the Courts accountable, too. The Courts have to provide a deterrent to the crime going on instead of letting them go free with suspended sentences and slaps on the wrists.
Anon 12:10
I go to the PW Courthouse, everday for about an hour to work. I always look at the docket, I see the names(Latinos), and I would like to know just how many actually show up, and if they don’t appear, is there a capias issued for them? The docket is growing all the time. I could go to PW Courthouse, and never have to worry about where I would park. I have to drive around to several parking lots before I can find a space. The courts are crowded and the Health Dept is equally if not more crowded the courts. Television stations used to be a rare sighting at PW Courthouse now they are there on a regular basis. Manassas is no longer the quaint, peaceful or safe place it was just a few years ago. It breaks my heart to see what has become of my hometown.
1. Do not give any benefits to non-U.S. Citizens (this includes: welfare, WIC, foodstamps, subsidized housing, insurance, free medical, free education, loans/credit cards, business licenses, social security, etc.).
Resulting Effects:
A. Internal incentives are removed that allow illegals to operate comfortably inside of our country.
B. Incentives are removed which attract illegals.
C. Legal U.S. Citizen Taxpayer dollars are freed up and our deficit is lowered.
D. Legal U.S. Citizens have a higher quality of life (lower payments, less taxes, better service levels due to less crowding particularly in medical facilities, and of course retirement with social security, etc.)
2. Do not grant citizenship to any child born to parents who are non-U.S. Citizens. Both parents must be U.S. Citizens in order for the child to become a U.S. Citizen.
Resulting Effects:
A. Eliminates the Anchor Baby crisis.
B. Enables deportations without legal getting in the way.
C. Frees up all the social benefits that are given out to the families of anchor babies and anchor babies themselves (see item 1 above).
3. Build the Fence, certify that it is secure, and place our military (not the national guard) along the entire border.
Resulting Effects:
A. Significantly reduces the amount of people that come across our borders illegally.
B. Sends a message to other countries that we take our border security seriously.
4. Conduct extensive background checks on many of our elected officials to see if they have ever had affiliations with groups like Mecha, Mexica Movement, Islam, etc.. If any of this is found…they will not be allowed in office and/or they will be removed from office. These individuals would also be investigated by the FBI for possible prosecution. Additionally, remove all special interest groups like National Council of La Raza, Islam, etc. from having a political influence.
Resulting Effects:
A. Prevents political take-over from within.
B. Protects equality for the legal U.S. Citizens (of all races).
C. Removes a huge part of the Aztlan agenda.
5. Shut down businesses that hire illegal aliens.
Resulting Effects:
A. Sends a message to businesses that they will be dealt with rigorously if they hire illegals.
B. Removes the attraction of work for illegals.
6. Remove all bi-lingual initiatives, make English the official language of the U.S., certify that individuals that wish to become U.S. Citizens assimilate as U.S. Citizens loyal only to the U.S. and can speak English with some proficiency, shut down businesses that cater to bi-lingual initiatives.
Resulting Effects:
A. Unites our country via a common language (English).
B. Ensures that U.S. Citizens are loyal to our country.
C. Prevents the balkanization of our country based on social/cultural/ethnic lines.
I sent the following to my Senators and Rep. Feel free to use as a boilerplate:
I would like you to take a look at this video to see that some of our “elected officials” in office, NCLR, and groups like Mecha are tied together. These groups have an agenda contrary to what the United States is all about!
Analysis of the The Aztec Al-Qaeda video. Shows ties between NCLR, Mayor of Los Angeles Antonio Villaraigosa, and Mecha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1XAQc8hS8&mode=related&search
Time: 0:06 – 0:12 States that Marcos Aguilar is the Principal and founder of the Academia Semillas del Pueblo charter school.
Time: 0:12 – 0:17 States that the Mayor of Los Angeles Antonio Villaraigosa and Marcos Aguilar were members of the UCLA chapter of Mecha.
Time: 0:18 – 0:26 States that Mecha was founded for the sole purpose of “radicalizing young Latino students for the hatred of America and to promote Chicano pride and separatism”
Time: 0:33 – 0:38 States that Mecha “seeks nothing less than control of the United States through the ballot box or by armed revolution”
Time: 0:40 – 0:44 States that Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa was President of UCLA chapter of Mecha.
Time: 1:00 – 1:04 States that Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa demanded Communist inclusion within the UCLA Chicanos study center.
Time: 1:30 – 1:55 Marcos Aguilar discusses that it is a bad thing for Mexican children to become “Americanized” (which would mean that it is a bad thing for Mexican children to assimilate into the common American Identity which is what all true Americans have done to keep this nation together and united).
Time: 1:55 – 2:24 States that the Academia Semillas del Pueblo charter school that is run by Marcos Aguilar caters to grades K through 8, is funded by State tax-payers and the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), that most of the students are children of illegal aliens, and that these children are taught a language now used by the Mexican Mafia.
Time: 2:24 – 2:37 Marcos Aguilar states “nowhere in the Constitution of the United States or the Declaration of Independence does it say that because you come here you have to now become an American. English, math, and American history take a backseat to Danza Azteca”
Time: 2:54 – 3:28 Clearly shows the violence of Chicano radicals and La Raza against legal American citizens.
Time: 4:04 – 6:28 Shows Marcos Aguilar’s affiliation with Juan Alvarez (who was a member of the Mecha club) who was involved in derailing a passenger train that killed 11 people and injuring approximately 200 people in 2005 in Glendale, CA.
Time: 6:30 – 7:18 States that KABC Reporter Sandy Wells was attacked after trying to interview Marcos Aguilar at the Academia Semillas del Pueblo charter school that he runs, and that when news of the event was made known to the public, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa stated that he supported the school and its teaching philosophy.
Time: 7:18 – 7:23 Quote from Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (while serving as the President of UCLA chapter of Mecha) “For those of the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing.”
Time: 7:32 – 7:36 The National Council of La Raza opened 50 new charter schools in 2005.
We the legal American citizens demand that people associated with groups like Mecha NEVER get into public office! Additionally, our government allows groups like NCLR (having known ties to groups like Mecha) to influence our country’s decision makers behind closed doors! How is this possible? Who conducted the background checks? I demand an answer!
This video is from this weekend’s rally in Los Angeles. I think we can see these same things here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bYYwVPaSis
CoM: I don’t view licensing requirements for drivers as a “tax-supported benefit.” I view it as an essential protection for the public (I know, a lot of incompetent drivers seem to pass DMV’s fairly low standards, but the general public safety point that licensing of drivers is better than not licensing drivers still has some policy validity, I think). An effective licensing program also provides a means of requiring some type of insurance protection for the public. If you’ve got 12+ million illegal immigrants in the country, the last thing I want is for a bunch of them to be driving around without having established minimum competency, having some kind of insurance, and, worst of all, being completely untraceable in the event of an accident.
My comment came up when someone asked about DUI issues. My response was that DUI is a serious offense whether committed by a citizen or non-citizen, legal or illegal and should be aggressively enforced against.
Drivers’ licenses should never be substitutes for proof of citizenship for voting or security purposes. I work with a lot of legal immigrants in my business. They should be able to drive, they shouldn’t be able to vote. If I’m posted overseas for a couple of years, I should be able to “get legal” to drive over there. If there’s a problem with using drivers’ licenses to falsely register to vote or to gain access to facilities where only citizens should be permitted entrance (flying commercially is not one of these situations), the problem is not with my concern that there should be controls on drivers, but with our security procedures.
Good stuff, TP! I had heard 20 years ago that our public schools on the border were teaching latino children the reconquista viewpoint. I guess they are now old enough to vote, and join in the antics you describe above. Our tax dollars at work!
Nova,
Well, the truth comes out… You have a vested interest in seeing illegals gain Citizenship.
Keep making excuses. If someone(kids excluded of course) does not pay State income tax, they are getting services they should not receive. Do you really think the cost of a driver license really covers the entire funding of the DMV? Of course not, that is why I said illegals are getting another tax supported
benefit.
I guess you have not paid attention to the real ID act that was passed by Congress. It was put into place after the September 11 terrorist attacks.
Besides just having a license does not do a thing to prevent any type of crime other then driving without a license. All it does is give illegals another incentative to stay here.
Must see video on NAU. This is part of the bigger plan (which must be stopped): http://youtube.com/watch?v=cxzs46Nxohk
Nova,
I still hold to my previous point. I suppose Charles Moose and the Montgomery County police should have sat back and let the FBI find John Allen Mohammed and Lee Malvo.
All governments local, state and federal have the basic responsiblity to protect its citizens. You must of skipped government class in high school.
Patty, Nova may well have attended government class - from what I can tell, civics classes over the last few decades have pretty much disintegrated which is why the population is uninformed and easily fooled by elected officials who seem to ignore or twist the Constitution to form a more perfect agenda. People need to watch the video as suggested by The Patriot at 8:32.
Please review all of the videos that I posted. The one on the NAU and the one dealing with NCLR, Mecha, and the Mayor of L.A. We can see all of this actually happening with our own eyes. It is not a “myth” like some people say. It is reality. The reason why the government is hesitant to do anything about border security, attrition, etc. is due to the NAU and SPP.
“the prevailing view is that crime rates among the illegal immigrant population is below that of the general population.”
What a crock of slaw! How about this: THe crime rate among illegal ALIENS is 100%. Every single one of them committed a crime to get here, and is part of an on-going conspiracy to a crime, as long as they remain here. Furthermore, no one really knows how many are in this country. The most realistic estimates put it somehwere aroung 20 million. However, if the Fed can’t even agree on the number, or is intentionally low-balling it, how can you quote statistics? Garbage in…garbage out
As far as all of Nova Scout’s argument regarding local police enforcing immigration law, because it will drive up taxes, come on. Give me a break. Illegals are driving up taxes by over-populating our schools. Illegals are driving up the cost of health care, since they aren’t paying for the care they get in the hospitals, and the hospitals charge those of us who can pay, more to cover the difference. Children of Illegals, who are the product of a crime, are driving up the cost of all public assistance programs.
We are already getting socked. Our property values are crashing, and this is especially true when the Illegals move into a neigborhood. Trash on the streets, overcrowded homes.
You and mom need to wake the hell up, NoVa Scout, and quit waiting for the Fed to bail you out. If you do, you’ll end up like those poor saps in New Orleans. Citizens must take action, demand change, and hold their electeds accountable. Groups like HSM can focus citizen efforts to pressure those who make the laws, to enforce them.
Cit-o’-Man: How did I suddenly acquire a “vested interest” in letting illegals gain citizenship? Not sure I follow. What I was trying to say is that I have the same vested interest you do in not getting killed or injured by unlicensed, uninsured drivers. Beyond that, I have no idea what you’re referring to. Maybe you’re saying that both you and I have a vested interest in reducing illegal immigration. I have to agree with that and assume your vested interest is no different than mine. Our differences appear to be only on the policy level about how to best do that. We probably have no disagreement on the necessity of controlling the borders.
Re Patty’s Muhammed/Malvo question: Killing people in cold blood is a fairly serious criminal offense in every localities that I’m aware of. I have no problem with local police going after it. Not sure why you would think otherwise. That’s what the local police are there for. When it crosses state lines (as was clearly happening during the sniper murders), I have no problem with the feds pitching in.
re those who say the crime rate is high or even 100% among the illegal immigrant population because they came here illegally, if that’s how you define crime, you can’t lose that argument. But those folks are “criminals” the same way any of you who has driven while intoxicated (even a tiny bit) or gone significantly over the speed limit are criminals (I know, you didn’t get caught, but they didn’t either). I suspect that, by your definition, the crime rate generally is close to 100%.
I thought the discussion here was whether the incidence of violent crime, the kind of crime that preys on and threatens the lives, safety and peace of the community, is higher among the illegal immigrant community. Maureen asked me if I was aware of data on this, specifically DUI data. Good question. I told her I didn’t know anything about DUIs in particular, but that the data I’ve looked at show that the crime rate in immigrant communities nationwide is lower than in the general population. That’s all. I don’t believe this shows any greater pre-disposition to moral rectitude than the rest of the population, but instead probably reflects the idea that if you’re someplace you have no legal right to be, you keep your head down. Just assume the situation was reversed and the US economy was totally down the toilet, Honduras was booming, and a lot of us decided we had no choice but to brave the Sonoran desert and the jungles of the Yucatan to get to some menial jobs in Tegucigalpa. I suspect we would be fairly careful about how we conducted ourselves once there. (BTW, if any of you ever find yourselves in that situation, and take those risks for the sake of the survival of yourselves or your families, I will be the first to say that you violated some laws to get to Honduras. I might also say you are causing significant social problems, making the locals nervous as hell and threatening traditional Honduran ways of going about things. But I would never call you a “criminal.” I hope you would extend me the same consideration. Let’s hope we are never in that situation.)
I always like a good policy discussion and thought it might help to inject a little different perspective here. But I’m getting the feeling that it’s more fun at this party without me so I’ll confine my comments in the future to other subjects. Greg does a great job with this site and has taken on many issues that are well worth addressing. This is one of them. But it’s not as easy as just telling us how angry you get everytime you see “illegals” (still don’t know how you spot them on sight) or how radically your neighborhood is changing. Data are as important as anecdotes. Many of you have legitimate concerns. I share some of them. My pitch would be to think through thoroughly some of the policy ramifications, both for the local community (e.g., police functions) and for the Nation (e.g., economic and security interests). I’ll take my finger out of the socket now.
Nova,
You mentioned you work with a number of legal immigrants. Maybe I took it the wrong way, but in many cases I see of people defending illegal immigration is they have a vested interest, i.e., they make a living that is connected to legal immigration.
Well, of course every illegal immigrant is a criminal. The difference between them and us, though is that while we may get caught speeding, we pay the fine, but that does not mean we are are free to speed anytime after that and not have to worry about getting caught again. Illegals will continue to benefit from breaking the law, which is to say they will be able to stay in the Country.
If we do not have security, we can forget about our economy.
Did someone in this thread just equate illegal immigration with speeding?
Yes I did to show how differently the two are handled. I could have picked any crime to reference the difference.
What you did isn’t equating the two. What Nova Scout did, is.
Greg,
My post indicating that the 287g program is complex… is the totality of it all to include the training. And by the way you may want to double check on the fact that every one that receives an ICE detainer is deported that is not the case as I understand it. As a matter of fact they go to Federal Court and it is there determined whether or not they are actually deported…alot won’t be and alot will be only to return to the US in a very short amount of time…imagine the statistics on that one…How many illegals return to the US after being deported????
Anon(5:40)
OK. Come to think of it President Bush did the same.
I said I’d butt out, and I will. But just to tidy up: C-o-M, I don’t make a living through legal immigration other than that my businesses and investments, like yours, prosper when the US economy is strong. Sound immigration policy adds to that prosperity. My comment about “working with” legal immigrants simply means that a number of the executives and managers in other companies that I do business with are here on visas from European nations. In the example I gave, I said that they should be permitted to drive on licenses issued here, but not permitted to vote. I would think that would be uncontroversial even in this neighborhood.
Anon 1740: I did not equate entering without authorization and traffic violations (including DUI). these are obviously very different sorts of misdemeanors or violations. I said that if one classifies all unauthorized entries as being perpetrated by “criminals” in order to establish the crime rate among illegal immigrants is high, then one has to compare this to all misdemeanor/felony violations that are at large in the population as a whole. This sweeps in everyone who has ever driven over 0.8 (or whatever the limit is these days), anyone who has cut corners on a tax return, etc. By that standard, the “criminal” population among us is very high indeed, perhaps universal. But I think the better measure is to try to pin down the violent crime rate among immigrants to determine whether their presence in our midst is causing a threat to health and safety that would not exist in their absence.
The economy will be just fine without lllegal immigration. In fact if you look at the numbers the only area where illegals seem to be a majority is in the fruit picking business. Yet illegals make up only around 5% of the total work force, so I sort of laugh when I see people use the economy as a reason to support illegal immigration.
People use that excuse(economy) because they can’t just come out and say they support law breakers, so they attempt to distort the debate and scare people into believing without illegals are Nation just would not survive.
I’m sure you’ve heard that heads of lettuce will start costing $10 if illegals are deported.
A statement borne of total ignorance of economics, by illegal alien apologists.
By the way, traffic violations are an infraction.
Entering the country illegally the first time is a misdemeanor.
Forging false documenation for ID (pretty much required if one is going to operate in this country as an illegal alien) is typically a felony.
redawn said on 23 Jun 2007 at 7:23 pm:
I would like ask Help Save Manassas to open a link on the website as mentioned above and call it OPERATION SLAM…..one door @ a time.
Everytime I drive in the neighborhood and see a STORM DOOR open, I have to fight off being compelled to SLAM IT SHUT.
Just as one door opens another closes…Help Save Manassas is opening the door for us LEGAL citizens to SLAM SHUT those who are not~
redawn said on 23 Jun 2007 at 8:00 pm:
BETTER YET….UNCLE SLAM….INSTEAD OD OPERATION SLAM~
Those were my comments on another thread ” SECRET SANCTUARY POLICY UPDATE”
Layfayette,
It leads me to beleive that (AI’s) attack on you was NOT for our cause ( MY OPINION) otherwise, he / she would have attacked me first.
We, being life long residents and PROUD to call you my friend ,have seen 1st hand the historical changes in our community.
Did WE attack other comments on different threads about how the area has been know(opinions) for white trash, rednecks, hicks, etc…..????????????? NO, beacuse we know that our community HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE UNDER DOG and that is how other’s view our community , sad, but true.
We started the stir-up , on THIS website about STORM DOORS, people, life long or new to the area AND not in our area ARE and HAVE been talking about it AND CONFIRMED IT.
Looking @ the “good” in something “bad”…..EYES AND EARS ARE OPEN….”LET’S GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT”
hmmmm, would it be a redneck statement to say” GET R DONE”?
“STIRRUPS RESOLUTION TO ILLEGAL ALIENS”…..THIS IS WHERE I MEANT TO POST COMMENT ABOVE AND WILL CORRECT……
[…] of them to ICE for deportation, Mexicanos Sin Fronteras leader Ricardo Juarez complained that an informal agreement had been violated, and a few months later Chief Deane responds with General Order 26-05, which prohibited police […]