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Stirrup’s Resolution On Illegal Aliens

By Greg L | 27 June 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 115 Comments

Although there’s a lot of talk about Supervisor Stirrup’s proposed resolution on illegal aliens that is before the Prince William County Board of Supervisors, so far I haven’t seen anyone actually post what the resolution actually is. For the edification of our readers, here is what it looks like when a legislator listens to his constituents and actually does something to address the problem:

WHEREAS, the Virginia State Code, Section 15-2-1700, states that any locality may provide for the protection of its inhabitants and property and for the preservation of peace and good order therein;

WHEREAS, the Prince William County Board of Supervisors has determined that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this County and that illegal immigration may be encouraged by public agencies within the county by failing to verify immigration status as a condition of providing public services.

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Prince William County Board of County Supervisors does hereby amend the Prince William County Code as follows:

A.All officials, agencies, and personnel of the County shall fully comply with and, to the full extent permitted by law, support the enforcement of federal law prohibiting the entry into, presence or residence in the United States of aliens in violation of federal immigration law.

B.County Police Officers shall inquire into the citizenship or immigration status of any person detained for a violation of a state law or municipal ordinance, regardless of the person’s national origin, ethnicity, or race where such inquiry does not expand the duration of the detention. In all such cases where a person indicates that he or she is not a citizen or national of the United States, the Police Department shall verify whether of not the person is lawfully present in the United States, pursuant to United States Code Title 8, subsection 1373( c ). If the person is verified to be unlawfully present in the United States, the Police Department shall cooperate with any request by federal immigration authorities to detain the alien or transfer the alien to the custody of the federal government.

C.Pursuant to United States Code Title 8, sections 1373 and 1644, no official, personnel or agent of the County, including officers and personnel of the Police Department, may be prohibited or in any way restricted from sending, receiving, or maintaining, information regarding the immigration status, lawful or unlawful, of any individual, or exchanging such information with any other federal, state or local government entity for the following official purposes:

1.Determination of eligibility for any federal, state or local public benefit, service or license which is restricted, in whole or in part, to persons who are not United States Citizens or non-qualified aliens, pursuant to Virginia Code Ann. 32.1-325.03; Virginia Code Ann. 63.2 – 503.1; and United States Code Title 8, Section 1621;

2.Verification of any claim of legal domicile within the County by a person who asserts that he or she is not a citizen, national or legal resident alien of the United States; where legal domicile is required by law or contract;

D.The Police Department of the County shall as quickly as practicable enter into a cooperative agreement with the United States Department of Homeland Security, pursuant to United States Code Title 8, subsection 1357 (g), to designate specific County law enforcement officers qualified to exercise the enforcement powers of federal immigration officers in the United States; and to establish a protocol for the expedited transfer of verified illegal aliens into federal custody. The Police Department may negotiate the cooperative agreement or participate in its implementation in partnership with other state or local law enforcement agencies.

E. The provisions of this section shall allow for a private right of action by any natural or legal person lawfully domiciled in this County to file for a writ of mandamus to compel any non-cooperating agency to comply with such reporting laws.

Voters should be hounding their supervisors to vote in favor of this. Here they are:

Corey Stewart, Chairman
Marty Nohe, Coles, Vice-Chairman
John Stirrup, Gainesville (tell him thank you!)
Wally Covington, Brentsville
Mike May, Occoquan
Maureen Caddigan, Dumfries
John Jenkins, Neabsco
Hilda Barg, Woodbridge

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  1. Maureen Wood said on 27 Jun 2007 at 3:12 pm:
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    I spoke with Supervisor Stirrup this morning and he said he has had nothing but positive responses from people.

    Hilda Barg and John Jenkins are the ones that are going to fight this resolution.

    MAKE THOSE CALLS! Better yet, go to their offices!

  2. Riley, Not O'Reilly said on 27 Jun 2007 at 4:03 pm:
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    Don’t even bother with Barg. She couldn’t even understand a simple email I sent her the other day about changes in precinct boundaries. She tried to slam me during yesterday’s BOCS meeting, but only made herself look silly as the other 7 supervisors also had received the same email and weren’t confused.

  3. Lafayette said on 27 Jun 2007 at 6:22 pm:
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    I’d called all Supervisors by noon today, I will continue to write and fax them. I urge all to do the same. Make the Supervisors’s office get overloaded like the Senate. Also, write to the MJM. Hilda’s completely out of touch with reality. I don’t like the fact I’ve taken time off work, to only find her cat nap during Citizen’s, you can’t see this on Channel 23, but you can in the BOS’s Chambers.

  4. The Patriot said on 27 Jun 2007 at 6:36 pm:
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    I just sent an e-mail to all of them.

  5. Scott said on 27 Jun 2007 at 6:43 pm:
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    I just saw it on NBC 4 at 6. Hilda Barg was giving her spiel that she did not even know if it is legal. There is a poll on their web site that says:

    “Should proof of immigration status be required in order to receive government services?”

    Currently it is 96% yes, 4% no. I think that says a lot.

    John Stirrup said “We want you to know that if you are not a legal resident you need to leave Prince William County”. That took a lot of guts.

  6. anon said on 27 Jun 2007 at 7:14 pm:
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    Where is the poll? Can you provide a link? I can’t see one on NBC 4’s site and I don’t see one with the story.


  7. Scott said on 27 Jun 2007 at 8:53 pm:
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    They unfortunately don;t have the story on their website, but will probably have it on at 11 P.M. The poll is halfway down the homepage on the right hand side.

  8. Scott said on 27 Jun 2007 at 8:56 pm:
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    Here is their short piece on the story:


    The story on the news was about 45 seconds long.

  9. Trent A. Barton said on 27 Jun 2007 at 10:25 pm:
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    I want to commend Supervisor Stirrup for taking action and helping us solve part of the overwhelming issue of illegal immigration. The Chief’s policy was out of step with the citizens of PWC and disconnected from his sworn duty to enforce all the laws. It is the Chief responsibility to enforce the laws not only the laws he wants to enforce!! I would call upon Stirrup and the rest of the Supervisors to reevaluate Chief Dean’s ability to keep his trusted position of authority and chief law enforcement officer for Prince William County. This certainly blemishes his record and it might be a career ending error if he doesn’t correct his course. As for the ineffective, out of touch, illegal sanctuary policy supporter Hilda Barg– we only have 130 days until a responsive representative Chris Royse, that understands we need a new direction in Woodbridge on this issue and many others, gets elected and removes her from office in 193 days. If Chief Deans doesn’t change his position maybe we can have a joint retirement celebration for them both.

    Just my Thoughts-

  10. NoVA Scout said on 27 Jun 2007 at 10:47 pm:
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    The study supporting the second “whereas” clause is a very important document that has received far too little attention nationally and locally. I assume it is extremely detailed and well-documented to support the conclusion. They shouldn’t be hiding this under a bushel. I didn’t even realize that it had been undertaken, let alone completed. There is a lot of controversy about the economic impacts and effect on public order of illegal immigration, with a number of studies indicating that the effects are benign, neutral or positive. In Prince William, the Supervisors have these data indicating the contrary and they should get them out into the national debate. I assume they referred to this extensively at the meeting. A thorough, well-documented study of these impacts, even if limited to PW, could influence the national debate now in the US Senate. It would certainly help focus my thinking. You might want to link to it, Greg. Maybe it’s on the County website.

  11. Anti-Illegals said on 27 Jun 2007 at 11:07 pm:
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    I watched the tape of you speaking at citizen’s time and want to commend you on your very articulate and reasoned comments. Tactically I wouldn’t have made the threat about recruiting plaintiffs and contacting Homeland Security this early. That kind of thing can anger and unify a Board otherwise split by party, ideology, or personal self-interest, into opposing what we are trying to do here. Other than that possible tactical difference, however, I think you did an excellent job.

    Individuals like Lafayette (out of politeness I won’t cite her real name) hurt our cause, though. I watched her comments before the BOCS also, and while we might be on the same team, she really did demonstrate the borderline stereotypical bigotry for which old, white, Democratic-controlled Viriginia used to be famous. Unlike in your comments she didn’t really do anything to differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants and ended up sounding like she really just doesn’t like having Hispanics in her neighborhood. Her mentioning of the rats and, in particular, that open storm doors are a way that “their culture” shows a room is available for rent was ridiculous. It may, in fact, mean such things in the Hispanic community, but just because people do that doesn’t mean they’re illegal aliens. This is also a community of people whose social values are generally aligned with ours, so it is important for the long term that we do not leave anyone with the impression that we are anti-Hispanic. Really, she may be a nice person, but her ignorance and barely concealed prejudice is an embarrasment to our cause. Similarly, the Patriot’s earlier postings here were sometimes irrational and over the top.

    Obviously, you can’t keep these individuals from speaking their mind, but you’re an excellent spokesperson for HSM and to the extent you can maintain yourself as the public face and minimize their appearances I think it helps our cause. Individuals like Lafayette and the Patriot undermine the good work you are doing.

  12. Greg L said on 28 Jun 2007 at 1:07 am:
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    I actually think it’s important that regular citizens, who might lack a little polish sometimes, but are really speaking about their understandable concerns, get a chance to express themselves in their own way. We are a citizens group after all, and while folks like this aren’t speaking for Help Save Manassas, it’s important to show what the broad range of concerns are. They’re real people, with real concerns, and even if they’re not acting like professional lobbyists or something, what they have to say is important.

    I’m sure with more experience, many of our members will gain some skills in how to present a political argument in a manner that won’t violate political correctness concerns. Part of what we do is educate our members, and I suppose this is part of it. I’m sure all our members are going to improve their public speaking skills, and that will be a good thing.

    It’s a little raw sometimes, but it’s honest. That counts with elected officials, who understand these aren’t professionals, but just regular constituents with real problems affecting their neighborhoods and families, and need help.

    Unfortunately Help Save Manassas doesn’t have a budget for professional lobbyists, but perhaps in the long run it’s better that regular citizens do the talking.

  13. Maureen Wood said on 28 Jun 2007 at 1:47 am:
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    Okay All,

    This is off topic somewhat, but I just read that Webb might be leaning toward a no vote on cloture. Lets give the last push this morning with the email, faxes and phone calls! Let’s make SURE he votes no.

  14. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 5:02 am:
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    Anti Illegal/Greg L/All
    You won’t see me around here anymore, or any other place, on the web, I’ll get my 3 minutes at Supervisors’ Meeting.. I’ve lots energy for this battle, I’ll use it elsewhere. Good luck, I’m sorry I’m not a professional lobbyists, I hope you all get what you want without emotion. Emotion is needed for this cause, excuse my passion, and I’ll take mine elsewhere(put it to better use than this).

  15. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 7:02 am:
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    Anti Illegal
    One last thing, I said “illegal alien culture”(about storm doors).
    The storm door thing is a fact, it does mean room(s), for rent. Greg L, even spoke of this at last night HSM meeting. Out of politeness I won’t cite her name, hurt our cause, why be polite about that when you basically called me a bigot, which I am not. I’m not against all Hispanics by any means. I’ve said on another thread earlier this week, one of best neighbors, was from Guatamala, she’s here legally and a US Citizen, and she moved out 28 past Linton Hall, because she didn’t like how the neighborhood had changed(meaning illegal aliens). I told, her I certainly understood, I was sick about our neighborhood. By the way I stand by passion, opinions and voice. I will say my name, since you were so polite not to. I am Chris Pannell. I have no problem with stating my real name, so you go ahead, hide under Anti Illegal. I’ll tell you, the same thing I told PWCBOS, I’ll be back. I hope you stay tuned to Channel 23 so you can see and hear me!!!! If you’d like to continue quoting me, I suggest you get the quotes right. SLANDER IS NOT A PRETTY THING.!!!!

  16. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 7:31 am:
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    Anti, I find it funny how you would consider my statements irrational. I quoted T. Roosevelt and produced a video link with its own factual information. My statements regarding 3rd world slum conditions on Sudley Manor are accurate. Have you ever been to a 3rd World country Anti? I have been to quite a few and there is no difference from what I see with my own eyes. Your comments are out of line and not justified by any means. You sound like a pomous academic as well (all fluff, no facts).

  17. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 7:32 am:
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    Why don’t you review that video and the commentary too. Seems like you have some research to do.

  18. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 7:40 am:
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    Greg, I think that is the problem. Political correctness. That is what got us all in this mess to begin with. No one is willing to say what is really on their minds. Therefore, the decision makers never get the real facts (they are sugar coated fluff). Why don’t you take a look at Tancredo’s take on political correctness and you will know what I mean. How dare anyone say that “non-professional lobbyists” aren’t as credible as professional lobbyists. We have just as much right as anyone else to express our views. Additionally, we are the majority.

    Tancredo’s take on political correctness:
    “But political correctness has poisoned the climate for dealing with difficult issues and has returned us to the days when a sufficient counter-argument was that an idea was contrary to doctrine. A democracy that cannot tolerate debate on controversial issues cannot function.”

  19. park'd said on 28 Jun 2007 at 7:52 am:
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    Lafayette: Don’t listen to this guy. You have become a small hero of mine in the past few weeks for your fired up attitude and your no-nonsense approach to this issue that plagues us all. The first resort of the ignorant is to call someone who is against illegal immigration a racist or bigot . Immediately they are disqualified from any serious discussion at this point when I see this type of behavior. In fact I won’t even talk to them at all and will just ignore them. Please don’t leave us because some Mr. smarty pants PC know-it-all insinuated that you are a racist. People are going to think you are a racist regardless of what you do when it comes to this issue because they know that Americans are fearful of being labeled a racist and are slaves to PC. Well I say no longer to that. PC will destroy this country if we let it. Mark my words…

  20. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:01 am:
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    Park’d has it right. And it coincides with what Tancredo says. “Professional politicians, so-called experts, etc.” have ruined this country. Enough with the pc nonsense. Oh…I thought I would share a comment I received from a friend regarding this whole illegal alien issue. These are his words:
    “I was at Wal-Mart a couple months ago and there was a 25-28′ish year old mexican gal, about 8 months pregnant, she had 4 childen with her, all under the age of what I guess was about 6, NONE of them spoke english as she could not communicate with the check out clerk, she had a HUGE cart of groceries. She used food stamps to pay for the food and then wheeled out, in the meantime, I am on soc sec disability–can’t qualify for food stamps or any other help, I make about $200 too much in disability income, I had my SMALL amount of food that I could afford, watching every penny, less than $25 worth, and I put it in my little cart to wheel it to the bus since I can’t afford a car on disability, well, I went out of the store just in time to see her finish loading her groceries in a BRAND NEW, temp license in the back window so new, mini-van!! Now, she paid for her food with food stamps yet drove away in at least a $20K brand new car, while I had to walk a block with my little cart full of groceries to take the bus home!”
    Yes folks…I have seen this too in our own local grocery stores. People using foodstamps and then loading up into a nice big Eddie Bauer Expedition. Something is wrong with this picture.

  21. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:12 am:
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    For the record…race has absolutely nothing to do with this illegal alien issue. Anyone that comes here illegally (no matter where they are from or what their ethnic background is) is a law breaker and needs to be dealt with. It just so happens, however, that the largest group participating in this illegal activity are the Hispanics. Additionally, they have one of the largest groups helping them…the National Council of La Raza (NCLR). I have many friends who are LEGAL Hispanics and they are against all of this as well. So you can throw out your race card argument because it holds no water. Those that use the race card argument typically have no solid basis for their long-winded diatribes (no facts, all fluff).

  22. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:17 am:
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    I’ve been fired up on this for a couple of hours now. You are exactly right. He’s the first person strike against me. I have heard nothing but positive things from people. Last night at HSM, the lady sitting behind me tapped on the shoulder said”I’ve love watching you and then she told her neighbor, that’s the lady I’ve been telling you about.”. I was told by someone in PWC’s official office, “you’re a star around here”.
    PC has practically destroyed this county. I’ve lived here 38 years, I bet this loud mouth know all has lived half that, heck maybe not even a third of the years I have. I do feel being life long resident of Lafayette, is pretty powerful. When there are what consider to be “newcomers”, spouting off like they’ve lived here for decades, I’d like point out I was taught PW County history, our book was as thick as the book they taught VA history out of. With all these different groups get their National Heritage Months, I think it is time that PW history is brought back. I loved how Mr. Politeness (AI), didn’t mention my name, it looks to me like, he’s not using his real name anymore, I think he’s hiding under Anti-Illegal. His opinion is just one of many and he’s entitled to that and so am I. I think my compliments are all that’s important, and I am proud of the compliment from PWC. I’m NOT going away in fact much to ole AI’s displeasure, he’ll being seeing and hearing my true heart felt passion alive and well. I’ve wasted enough of my time on this guy. Thanks again park’d.

  23. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:23 am:
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    loud mouth know it all has not lived in the county…

  24. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:25 am:
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    correction: has NOT lived here half….

  25. redawn said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:29 am:
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    “keep on rockin’ in the free world”….everyone has opinions and that is the OPINION of ” Anti-illegals. I know your passion and I AM PROUD OF YOU! R.E.S.E.C.T….. Thank you for taking your VACATION TIME to help out our community :) PEACE~

  26. Mando said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:47 am:
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    To Lafayette - Emotion is great but you must have a thick skin if you want to get into public debate. The opposition to what we’re trying to accomplish is strong and polished. Their weapon of choice is labels. If they can label you “racist” they can shoot down your entire argument. I believe what AI is saying is we shouldn’t be providing them with any ammunition. I don’t think AI is part of the opposition. I do think we are making headway and we have to tread lightly (but loudly!) to avoid being labeled racist. That label can destroy everything we are working for. Steel is tempered with heat to make it stronger and more resilient. Our determination can be tempered with critisisms for the very same reasons. To be victorious we all must understand the opposition and the weapons they use. Keep fighting the good fight and never surrender!!!

  27. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:53 am:
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    Yes. Lafayette….we must hear more from you. Do NOT ever let someone tell you that you cannot speak (particularly the so-called and self-proclaimed political “experts”). They are the ones that do NOT help the cause. All fluff…no facts.

  28. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:56 am:
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    HSM…should be ashamed of itself if it’s policy is to allow only the “so-called political experts” to speak and have a voice on a very important issue that impacts our entire community. That is outrageous and demonstrates a high degree of arrogance! What kind of membership is that!?!

  29. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:59 am:
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    That is no different from our arrogant elected officials ignoring us because they think “they know what’s best for us” (because they think that they are smarter than anyone else)! Nonsense!

  30. Gurduloo said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:17 am:
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    “the Prince William County Board of Supervisors has determined that illegal immigration is causing economic hardship and lawlessness in this County and that illegal immigration may be encouraged by public agencies within the county by failing to verify immigration status as a condition of providing public services.”

    Has Prince William actually conducted a study a to determine this? I’d like to see a link to this.

  31. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:31 am:
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    Don’t worry my skin has gotten thick as leather this morning. This is so outrageous, that I’m having to defend myself, for speaking my mind, it is my right as it everyone’s. I never been accused of being a racist, until now. You seem friendly, how did I come off as a racist? It’s like others have said PC, is what got us this whole mess. I’ve never called anyone a racist name, I’ve used “illegal alien”. Well we all know there know there’s no way of knowing who’s illegal and legal, because PWCPD, can’t ask unless it’s certain type of crime. THIS POLICY AND ATTITUDE MUST GO. Thanks Mando, redawn & Patriot.

  32. Ted said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:39 am:
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    Don’t forget to call you country supervisor and ask them to support Supervisor Stirrup’s proposed ordinance on changing the PWCPD policy on asking about immigration status.

  33. Concerned said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:43 am:
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    In the channel four interview John said, “If you’re illegal, you either better get legal or get out of Prince William County.” I’ve already emailed to thank him for his actions, as should everyone else. However, enacting the immigration bill will take the teeth out of John’s PWC resolution. Major, but less publicized, parts of the immigration bill are the provisions to confer legal status on illegals through “z” visas and other such shenanigans embedded in the bill. Upon signing by George “Benedict Arnold” Bush illegals will immediately gain legal status to remain here, work and receive public benefits even without the much ballyhooed “path to citizenship.” All of the illegals will then be able just to scoff at the police and the rest of us, continue to degrade our quality of life, and demand we pay for services for them.

    Give John his due thanks and contact Warner and Webb to let them know we’ll vote for “anybody but” if they participate in getting this bill, or some similar version, approved in the Senate.

  34. mom said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:53 am:
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    Greg, err Patriot, both AI and Mando are correct on several fronts. Given that the intent of Stirrup’s resolution is correct, the focus must remain on the issue at hand which is “illegal” immigration.

    That being said, your veiled threat to the BOCS regarding litigation was probably ill-advised. Such threats are generally counter-productive and do little more than engender stiffer opposition and provide motivation/ammunition for opposition groups. Further, ultimately who ends up paying for any such litigation, you, I and the other “legal” residents of PWC. In the future, if you’re inclined to posit such threats, you would probably be better served to make them offline where they are less likely to appear in the public record.

    Similarly, the problem is not political correctness but being able to effectively lobby for the resolution and policy implementation without providing the opposition talking points or losing a sector of potential supporters. A modicum of xenophobic commentary is expected and likely can not be avoided, but the focus must remain on issues regarding “legality” and judicious enforcement.

    Some recent comments may be construed by some (left and right) as well over the top. For example, in a post which appears to have been deleted, “Patriot” asserted that the immediate family of those detained should also be immediately investigated, ostensibly to send a message to those who harbor illegal aliens and provide a disincentive to future illegal border crossings. While in theory there may be some small merit to that, what is the next step? It is that next step that is the dangerous one. A cursory review of modern history, and I believe history has a cyclical nature, would suggest that next step has frequently been one that is later univerally condemned, see cattle cars to eastern poland or ethnic cleansing. Thus, AI’s concerns are very real, unless of course you would support for purpose of identification, having all “legal” immigrants or those citizens that fit a particular profile wear a star bearing the colors of their country of origin or ancestry.

    Similary, from a historic perspective, the type of assimilation called for in recent comments runs counter to the history of this nation. One need look no further than the ethnic enclaves in many urban areas be they long standing “Italian”, “Irish” or “Polish” neighborhoods or more recent “Asian” enclaves in cities as disparate as Seattle and Milwaukee. The cultural aspects (to include language) of those neighborhoods are part of the fabric of this country. To argue for a homogenized population could by extension mean the elimination of such cultures as the Amish or Cajun. That having been said, I wouldn’t be opposed to a requirement for absolute assimilation by those of French orgin or ancestry in order to preclude the onset of “Surrender Monkey” syndrome.

    In short, in order to be effective, the focus needs to remain on the “legal” issues at hand and commentary that provides ammunition to the opposition or disaffection of a sector of the base needs to avoided. It’s not an issue of political correctness, merely sound strategy.

  35. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:58 am:
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    I called them all yesterday, today it’s email. *FOR ALL* www.pwgov.org, has all their info, click BOS it’s left side. I had copies of all this info printed out last HSM. One gentleman, in front of me at HSM meeting, asked where he could find this info, I had the info in his hands just as he was finishing asking. Last night at 7-11, after HSM meeting, I was talking to people and gave them applications and a flier. They were both life long residents, there are a lot of us around here, and we’re visiting old classmates’ houses, spreading the word.I personally feel this just as good as knocking on strangers doors and think they are sign up on the spot. I’ve talked to a lot of people about HSM, some are initially concerned that it might be about hate, I explain it’s not about hate and all and then tell them about all the good things HSM is doing. Boy, I sure hope these acts of community service don’t hurt the cause. If they did, I’m sure someone will be sure and let me know.

  36. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 10:15 am:
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    Mom, take it up with Teddy Roosevelt!

  37. Ted said on 28 Jun 2007 at 10:21 am:
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    Not to be too picky, but the idea that as soon as Bush signs a bill all 12 - 20 million illegals suddenly acquire legal status is not correct IMHO.

    Assuming that the Z visa provisions in the bill now under consideration are the same as they were a month ago, illegals would have to apply for the visa, undergo the infamous 24 hour background check, and pay fines before receiving the visa/probationary legal status. Until they do, they are still considered illegal.

    I believe that many illegals will apply for it immediately but many will hold off applying for it because they are worried it’s merely an attempt to nab people and then deport them.

    Details on the Z visa (as of 23 May) and worth your time if you want to understand all the intricacies of the process/loopholes:


  38. Maureen Wood said on 28 Jun 2007 at 10:58 am:
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    Ted- “undergo the infamous 24 hour background check, and pay fines before receiving the visa/probationary legal status.”

    You forgot to tell people that these illegals have 8 years to pay that $5,000 fine. And you are wrong that they would still be illegal! Once they have that Z visa in their hands they have a legal right to be in the U.S. They will also be eligable for all of the social services that legal residents may partake of. If you all think the County and City budgets are bad now, wait until we have to legally support illegals.

  39. Patty said on 28 Jun 2007 at 11:04 am:
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    Please don’t listen to Anti Illegal’s political correctness. That is what has this country in trouble today. I hate it when someone pulls the race card in order to commit crimes. They do it so that people who think being politically correct is important will leave them alone so that they can continue their illegal activities. The Board needs to hear the truth and I think you have been doing a fine job. Honesty doesn’t come from polish. It comes from telling the truth.

    By the way Anti Illegal, everyone knows that when a storm door is tied open it is advertisment for rooms for rent. Even the Wash. Post did an article about it several weeks ago. It might do you well to go to the library and look it up. Please don’t discourage people with being honest. Being polished looks phony and it is. Nobody likes phony.

  40. redawn said on 28 Jun 2007 at 11:07 am:
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    I too saw the story on news channel 4 and I thought it was important to thank news channel 4 for covering the story as well

  41. redawn said on 28 Jun 2007 at 11:15 am:
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    Patty, your comment: “Please don’t discourage people with being honest. Being polished looks phony and it is. Nobody likes phony.” I could not AGREE with you more, after all we a concerned legal citizens, NOT POLITCIANS~ PEACE EVERYONE :)

  42. Ted said on 28 Jun 2007 at 11:15 am:
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    “Once they have that Z visa in their hands they have a legal right to be in the U.S.”

    They key word is “once”. Granted that the requirements to get the Z visa are not particularly onerous, as far as I can tell that until/unless a person jumps through the hoops and receives it they are still considered illegal.

    My point is that saying that as soon as such a bill is signed it is a blanket/immediate amnesty is stretching it a bit (but not by much).

  43. Advocator said on 28 Jun 2007 at 12:28 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dear Anit-Illegals:

    “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” –Barry Goldwater

    Keep it up, Lafayette.

  44. AWCheney said on 28 Jun 2007 at 1:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    Lafayette, I just saw this portion of the thread with regard to the perceived attack against you by Anti-Illegal. I must agree with Mando…thick skin is a prerequisite in the political arena, PARTICULARLY if you are passionate about an issue. Relatively speaking, AI’s criticism was mild…you should see some of the things I’VE been called.

    You’ve been doing a magnificent job with this issue and it would be a shame if you got run off by your first critic. Don’t let it bother you but, should you decide to stop commenting and providing us with the excellent information you have been, it will be a great loss to us all.

  45. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 2:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    Thank you very much. I will keep it up. I couldn’t agree with you and Mando more on the thick skin, it was the first time this happened to me and yes I see how it gets out there. I’ve time to really think about it and cool down some. This is the first and last time this will bother me.

  46. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 2:36 pm:
    Flag comment

    correction I’ve HAD time to…

  47. redawn said on 28 Jun 2007 at 2:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    Think about HOW MUCH TIME was spent over ONE person’s OPINION…lesson learned for me too…my mom always said ” why let it take up space in your head for free” so, “drop it like it’s hot”…lol :)and I finally had the chance to listen to the evening meeting…really do not see where you were targeted to be a racist , bigot, or anything of the sorts. You spoke truth and I back you up…eyes are open to the storm doors, which need to be address!

  48. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 5:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    People just need to present facts (and leave political correctness out of things). Say what you have to say and back it up. And please, self-proclaimed “political experts”, keep your self glorifying statements to yourselves.
    Oh…and just today….we saw two houses next to each other with the storm doors propped open in the Sudley Manor area. Hmmmmm………coincidence? I think not.

  49. Patty said on 28 Jun 2007 at 5:09 pm:
    Flag comment


    Please don’t quit giving your opinions on this blog. I really like to hear what you are saying. You are telling the truth. It’s great and I thank you for having the courage to do it.

  50. The Patriot said on 28 Jun 2007 at 5:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    I agree with Patty.

  51. REDAWN said on 28 Jun 2007 at 6:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    I took the 30 mins. of my time in my HOT, UNAIRCONDITIONED VEHICLE, in the normal rush hour and Jimmy Buffet concert traffic this evening, to take note of the PROPPED OPEN STORM DOORS,without impeding traffic to account for a total of 18. I will be taking a different route on the way to work tomorrow am & pm and will be collecting data. I will be forwarding this on to Help Save Manassas and I suggest the same of everyone. Let’s see what we come up with.

  52. REDAWN said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    REDAWN said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:06 pm:
    redawn said on 23 Jun 2007 at 7:23 pm:
    I would like ask Help Save Manassas to open a link on the website as mentioned above and call it OPERATION SLAM…..one door @ a time.
    Everytime I drive in the neighborhood and see a STORM DOOR open, I have to fight off being compelled to SLAM IT SHUT.

    Just as one door opens another closes…Help Save Manassas is opening the door for us LEGAL citizens to SLAM SHUT those who are not~

    redawn said on 23 Jun 2007 at 8:00 pm:

    Those were my comments on another thread ” SECRET SANCTUARY POLICY UPDATE”
    It leads me to beleive that (AI’s) attack on you was NOT for our cause ( MY OPINION) otherwise, he / she would have attacked me first.

    We, being life long residents and PROUD to call you my friend ,have seen 1st hand the historical changes in our community.

    Did WE attack other comments on different threads about how the area has been know(opinions) for white trash, rednecks, hicks, etc…..????????????? NO, beacuse we know that our community HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE UNDER DOG and that is how other’s view our community , sad, but true.

    We started the stir-up , on THIS website about STORM DOORS, people, life long or new to the area AND not in our area ARE and HAVE been talking about it AND CONFIRMED IT.
    Looking @ the “good” in something “bad”…..EYES AND EARS ARE OPEN….”LET’S GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT”
    hmmmm, would it be a redneck statement to say” GET R DONE”?

  53. anon said on 28 Jun 2007 at 8:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    May I ask…

    How do you KNOW that a propped open screen door means rooms for rent?

    Is it just houses with the regular door shut and the screen door open?

  54. Patty said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    My neighbor had problems with her screen door. When the kids went out the door it stayed open. Guess who showed up at her door thinking it was a place to stay for the night. Yea, you got it right. It was an illegal alien. If you don’t believe me leave your screen door open and see what happens. This is an experiment that you can do yourself!!! That’s if you got the guts to do it.

  55. Patty said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’ll repeat. The Washington Post did an article on this. Screen doors are indeed tied open to advertise a room. The article appeared a few weeks ago when these sub prime loans were hitting the news. So if you do a search look for forclosures and immigrants because I forget the exact title of the article.

  56. Lafayette said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    My friend is from Guatamala, I asked her one day what’s the the storm doors, open she that means that they have a room/s for rent and you see can look at these three houses with 5 or more cars, notice it’s always different people staying there everynight. She’s moved to Linton Hall area, she didn’t like how our community has changed. I hope this might help for proof.

  57. REDAWN said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:26 pm:
    Flag comment

    anon 8:43,

    I will let OTHERS who know too and speak of thier own research and experiences to help me out and explain, OPEN FORUM.

    My answer: I have kids that have become friends with self proclaimed illegal status. They were not bragging or any of the sort. They have become friends thru OUR SCHOOLS and OBVIOUSLY, neighborhood.

    Illegals, are HUMAN BEINGS and ARE NOT TO BE exempt from being loved or friends. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE OR DEBATE.
    In doing so, becoming close to my children and me, have confided in us this information.
    HEAR SAY? The argument would be, take anyone that is AWARE of breaking the law, if they are your friends, co-workers, family or neighbors, how do YOU come forward on the basis of…they told me (or in other law breaking instances, seen with your own eyes….. i.e drunk driving, drugs, battery, theft, etc) when knowingly (self confessed) they are BREAKING THE LAW and will deny it?
    I invite other’s to explain as well.

  58. REDAWN said on 28 Jun 2007 at 9:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    Rained out,Buffet? tell me you enjoyed PART of your VACATION! PEACE :)

  59. anon said on 29 Jun 2007 at 12:26 am:
    Flag comment

    I’ve searched the Washington Post with every combination of terms I could think of to find the article about screen doors being propped open. I can’t find it. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, just that I can’t find it.

    I would suggest that those of you who have seen this article track it down, get Greg to post excerpts of it (allowable by law) and get a copy of it to every supervisor.

    Without that, it’s really just your say-so that screen doors open = rooms for rent. It would be good to have verification of that as fact as one more weapon in the arsenal.

  60. Greg L said on 29 Jun 2007 at 12:30 am:
    Flag comment

    The Wasington Post mentioned it here:

    A quote:
    Since then, some community leaders said the problem has spread, spilling into affluent neighborhoods, where immigrants have increasingly bought homes. They said dozens of such houses have their screen doors propped open — even on cold winter nights — as a silent signal that rooms are available to rent to single workers.

  61. Patty said on 29 Jun 2007 at 9:15 am:
    Flag comment

    Thank you Greg for posting the quote from the Washington Post!!!! Now I hope for you that think this is a “cultural thing” this quote will put this to rest. It is a signal for rooms for rent. Like I said you can try this yourself. Tie open your screen door at night and see who comes.

  62. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 9:43 am:
    Flag comment

    Did andyone notice the article from the Post regarding storm doors, also mentioned foreclosures? Thank you Greg, for posting that article. I hope the helps the doubters of storm doors out.

  63. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 10:24 am:
    Flag comment

    Speaking of storm doors:
    I decided to take a drive today to see for myself if the propped open storm door issue was true. I concentrated on the Sudley Manor area and drove through the neighborhood and worked my way all the way up to Liberia. I found at least 15 plus houses that had their storm doors propped open. This is hardly a coincidence. I drove through the predominantly hispanic areas. In comparison, when I arrived in the predominantly non-hispanic areas, I couldn’t find one propped open storm door. Additionally, the main doors behind the propped open storm doors were closed. Therefore, one could conclude that the individuals were not trying to get “fresh air” into their homes.

  64. anon said on 29 Jun 2007 at 10:43 am:
    Flag comment

    Thanks for posting the article Greg. I do remember reading that when it came out.

    But for those who asked, NO that article does NOT solve the problem of screen-door-doubters.

    I am not exactly a screen-door-doubter. It may well be true. Heck, I think there’s a 90% chance it IS true.

    But that article ONLY refers to “community leaders” saying that this is true. Manassas community leaders.

    Where did the LEADERS learn of it? That’s critical thinking. I don’t accept something just because “a leader” told me about it.

    I am daring enough to try the screen door thing - but there are two problems. 1. I don’t have a screen door. 2. I don’t live anywhere near where these folks could see it if I did and walk up.

    I agree that this could very well be a signal. And it certainly doesn’t make any sense to me to prop open a screen door and keep the main door closed. At the least it is trashy. It may well be something more “nefarious”.

    But if you all want people, and especially people in authority, to believe that propped open screen doors are a signal - and to do something about it, then you need some kind of evidence.

  65. Legal2 said on 29 Jun 2007 at 11:22 am:
    Flag comment

    OK, so should we report these flophouses which are being operated without a license? And to whom? Are there fines for operating a boarding house, or some way to have the premises inspected by the health dept. as uninhabitable/overcrowded, etc.?

  66. Had to Say said on 29 Jun 2007 at 11:32 am:
    Flag comment

    It seems a little fishy to me that the two neighbors that have a sreendoor and are Hispanic (I live in a very nice area) are the only ones propped open. I am keeping my eye open to see when new cars are parked out front and if the screendoor will then be closed.

  67. Greg L said on 29 Jun 2007 at 12:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    If you have legitimate reason to believe the houses are actually overcrowded, by all means contact zoning and file a complaint. Propping open a storm door is not unlawful, so for now just take note of the houses that are doing this.

    If in the future anti-harboring legislation is enacted at the state or local level, that list may be where enforcement actions would start. After the legislation is enacted we would have to determine what the criteria the police will use to evaluate complaints, and if this activity is within that criteria, we would be in a good position to help promote enforcement.

  68. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 12:40 pm:
    Flag comment

    I took another drive just now. I toured the Sudley Manor area (more in depth) and Liberia area. I took notes. I will perform this again in about a week to compare my data to see if any variables have changed. I did note that the predominantly hispanic areas held the center of gravity of propped open storm doors. When I toured outside of those areas, I couldn’t find any propped open storm doors. This says something. If it was normal to prop open storm doors, you would find them in all areas (not just the predominant hispanic area). This says alot. My count was around 30 doors propped open. I am plotting my route and I will continue to monitor it for patterns.

  69. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 12:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Property Code Enforcement was just on my block(visited 2houses), they are in Westgate right now, following up 18 cases(per the inspector). Looks like I’m not the only one calling. I hope others read this and take notice, action is happening as result of all of our calls. I hope this good citizenship spreads to every subdivision in the county with these Prince William County property and zonining code violations.

  70. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 12:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    You are exactly right, we did NOT attcack back when our communtiy was attacked. WE DID NOT AND WILL NOT ATTACK BACK, we were raised to be true American’s and to be civic-minded. I believe this is shing through today and will continue until the day we die.

  71. redawn said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:02 pm:
    Flag comment

    AMEN! Remenber the days when we residents used to drive around and wave to each other? I, as well as you, could go on and on. KEEP SHINING :) TRUTH ALWAYS COMES OUT, SOMETIMES IT HURTS~

  72. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:02 pm:
    Flag comment

    Lafayette, what are the property code rules? I know that there is a house near mine that has up to 3 families residing in it. It is a single family home.

  73. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:03 pm:
    Flag comment

    Keep it up. You speak of Sudley Manor area, I guess you live in Sudley, those 18 violations I spoke of some were also in Sudley. Keep you eyes open, you might see them too. They are taking pictures and knocking on doors to address these property code violations. I would like to let those who don’t know Sudley and Westgate back up to one another. Also, some streets continue into Sudley, from Westgate(my personal favorite being one of those streets).

  74. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    I am actually documenting the specific addresses and route. Each week I am going to following my route and monitor any changes with the doors. I will be doing this on a weekly basis. Probability would indicate that if the doors are merely being open “for fresh air” many of them should close over a period of time. If they are indicators of a safe harbor…many of them will likely remain open. That is what I will be tracking. Please note again….I do not see this phenomenon in the outside (non-hispanic) areas. I purposely drove around in other areas to compare so that I could see if there was a center of gravity based on demographics.

  75. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    Here’s the place to go with all the 411 on Property Codes, it falls under the Planning Office.http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=040035. I hope others see this, and put this to work for our community.

  76. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    I just want to say go to www.pwcgov.org, this site is wealth of information for county residents and other concerned parties. I encourage all to visit this website.

  77. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    Oh…one more thing…I don’t think we should make the propped open storm door thing public at this time. If it truly is an indicator…we want it to continue so that it can be monitored and eventually (if merited) enforcement can take place.

  78. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    Thanks for getting this storm door thing going. Patriot has followed your lead, I will get on this one too. Oh, here’s a start right now 3 open on block alone. I encourage others to take notice of doors like redawn and Patriot.

  79. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    open on MY block alone.

  80. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    Absolutely right, for now it’s independent study for ourselves. Don’t forget to chek out www.pwcgov.org, also, let all of us know if it answers some questions/concerns of you have.Thanks again.

  81. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    Occupancy and Overcrowding link: http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=040038000340003120

    Property Code Enforcement Complain Form (note…be sure to mark YES for “Furnished in Confidence”): http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=010095000550001825

  82. redawn said on 29 Jun 2007 at 1:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Thank you Patriot :) , see how it has gone UNNOTICED to some, for a long time? It’s quite clever. That’s what people need to do, be aware of your surroundings

  83. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 2:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    Redawn..absolutely. Let us keep this under wraps for now so that we can monitor and then report once we get enough data.
    Here is a nice reference for this type of activity (if it truly is an indicator of safe harbor):

    Summary of Federal Immigration and Nationality Act Section 8 USC 1324

    “Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”

    Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

    A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

    assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

    encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

    knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

    Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.
    [Source: http://www.reportillegals.com/law.html]

  84. redawn said on 29 Jun 2007 at 2:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    Just like the push cart vendors, people assumed they were legitimate vendors. It took the effort to research and in doing so uncovered the majority of them not to be, as well as HAVING TO point out to the police and educate the citizens. Be aware of your surrounding.

  85. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 2:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    I have been e-mailing our BOCS to start taking action. I have not mentioned the storm door thing…still want to keep that under wraps. However, we the citizens must take an active role in this if anything is going to get done. Politics only get you so far.

  86. Patty said on 29 Jun 2007 at 3:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    The propped open screen doors have occured for quite some time. I noticed them last year and guess what. They were open all winter. How about that!!!

    I think the person at 9700 King George was feeling a little guilty. When a police car happened to pull up in front of their house the other day, a hand reached out and closed that screen door faster than you can say boo. I watched it happen.

    By the way, these are the same people who had a fire in their house last spring. They tried to put it out themselves. When my neighbor called the fire dept. and they arrived at the scene many people were seen running (I said running) from the premises. I personally witnessed two that were hiding behind a tree in the back yard.

  87. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 3:26 pm:
    Flag comment

    I can’t wait to see what patterns I see once I start mapping them out over a period of time.

  88. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 3:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’m glad you got those specific links posted. I want to remind everyone, you must give your name to the county, from that point you remain anon. Patty, I remember that one. Well, while we’re at…let’s not forget the chemical spill, that shut my favorite block down all day. Several, seniors were very angry they couldn’t go to church. The cars, vans and box trucks at this house went from 15 down to 3!!!(overnight). Yeh, the owner let’s his workers stay there(per the owner he speaks to some us around here). Funny, a little earlier with 6 cars at that very same house, the door was not answered when Property Code Enforcement came knocking.Hmmmmmm…

  89. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 3:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’m 99.99999999999% sure you’ll see a pattern!!!!! I wish Vegas had line to place bets on the storm door thing. Thanks again for PWC links. I wish everyone would take a look, it’s informative!!!!!

  90. The Patriot said on 29 Jun 2007 at 4:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    I have some contacts in other states that are off marching to check into the storm door thing too. I figure our case will be much stronger if the same thing is happening in known hot spots in other locations.

  91. Maureen Wood said on 29 Jun 2007 at 6:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    One thing you also need to keep track of is City/ County stickers and out of state license plates. Note the date you first see the vehicle with-out the sticker or the out of state license. If the vehicle if still in the neighborhood after 30 days and doesn’t have a City or County sticker or a Virginia license plate they are in violation of City/ County ordinances.

    We need to use every tool at our disposal to make people conform to the law and this is just helping the police do their job when you report non-confromance.

  92. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 7:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    Thank you for that reminder. I started tracking this June 8th, so when July 8th rolls around the 30 days is up. PWCPD, tagged a box truck on June 11th, and June 20th it got towed away. This box truck had, Texas plates, VA inspection expired 7/05, and Manassas City 2004 personal property sticker. I think with PWCPD checking out the pushcarts they couldn’t help but notice this truck. We did have upto 5 carts at a time gathered on one corner and I haven’t heard any bells today, maybe it’s the weather, I don’t know.

  93. REDAWN said on 29 Jun 2007 at 7:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    Eyes are open, sounds like informal commitee’s have formed, ANYONE UP FOR SHOPPING CARTS??????????????

  94. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 7:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    The shopping carts are all over the place too. I saw 3 on Urbana alone and 2 on Portsmouth.

  95. REDAWN said on 29 Jun 2007 at 7:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    MY GUESS would be that we or someone would have better luck and quicker results beacuse, IT’S THEFT!

  96. REDAWN said on 29 Jun 2007 at 7:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    to clarify the comment above, on THAT INFORMAL COMMITEE :)

  97. REDAWN said on 29 Jun 2007 at 7:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    where is my spell check, sorry….multi tasker too….

  98. REDAWN said on 29 Jun 2007 at 7:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Anyone up to checking on the “roach coaches” slang of course, that seems to be everywhere and I mean everywhere, it used to be only in construction sites, now you see it is as MOBILE dinning experience , with chairs and tables too. Any other idea’s???????????

  99. Maureen Wood said on 29 Jun 2007 at 10:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    I planned on checking with the City to see if permits were issused for these trucks or not. If one of you guys can check with the County that would be great. Then we call the police if they aren’t licensed.

    Another thing, in the City the people that put advertising on your door on your mailbox or anywhere else, have to have a solicitors permit to do so. I save my little ad’s and plan on giving them to the city. They in turn will let these people know that they aren’t allowed to do this. This way, one business doesn’t have an advantage over another.

    I called about one business, I forgot the name, but it was a landscaping business, and they had no business license any where in NOVA. Although they had a Fairfax phone number.

  100. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 11:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    I posted this Peddlers info under the wrong place I thought I was here.
    Applicants are fingerprinted and photographed, undergo a background investigation and must show proof of Citizenship, Resident Alien Card or some other official document issued by ICE.

    [Ed note: links reformatted]

  101. Lafayette said on 29 Jun 2007 at 11:54 pm:
    Flag comment

    I hope the links work this time, as you can see I don’t know much about cutting and pasting.




  102. Legal2 said on 30 Jun 2007 at 9:52 am:
    Flag comment

    BTW - About 20 years ago when we lived in MD, there was a law (does anyone know if it was State or Fed law?) that required businesses to report anyone who paid over $10K cash for anything (like down payments on houses, cars, etc). It was a way to deal with the drug dealers. Do we have anything like that on the books in VA? We should. It might help a little to deter illegals from doing business here, especially since they do not generally like to deal with banks.

  103. Sals said on 30 Jun 2007 at 11:11 am:
    Flag comment

    Go to online services at www.manassascity.org and you can open a case to report tax evaders by submitting the plate number and state. You can give the location and other information, as well as your email so they can inform you of the resolution status.

  104. Lafayette said on 30 Jun 2007 at 1:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    Area Suburns See Rise in Foreclosures(today’s Post-front page)
    Manassas is mentioned a little, however it speaks of “ripple effect”, 3foot grass on New Braddock in Centreville.There’s a paragraph or two, about Manassas, 5 unrelated people living there(one house), in foreclosure and front door propped oen with rope to signify room for rent to anyone. Please, read this article. It’s speaks of many things I have addressed here and at the PWCBOS meetings. It didn’t mention if the house was in the City or PWC. I do research land records in PWC which covers the 2cities as well. I hope this might help those still in doubt.

  105. anonymous said on 1 Jul 2007 at 1:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    “BTW - About 20 years ago when we lived in MD, there was a law (does anyone know if it was State or Fed law?)”

    That is a Federal law.

  106. redawn said on 2 Jul 2007 at 9:16 am:
    Flag comment

    Thank you all for important info., links, etc. I ask everyone, if you see someone with a shopping cart off premises, call the police and store. I plan to ask the stores what action they are trying to take.
    I never thought I would see the day that shopping carts land where they do.

  107. Bryanna said on 5 Jul 2007 at 4:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    Gurdu wanted to know if anyone has conducted a study.

    YES, the county did a study based on a request of Supervisor Wally Covington. ealier in the year. Mr. Gerhart reported 3 million dollars being spent annually on services to illegal immigrants.

    When you all speak on Tuesday. Be sure to address Mr. Gerhart who sits in the seat next to Ms. Barg.

    Tell Mr. Gerhart that if the Board fails to cooperate in passing this resolution that you’re coming after him next!

  108. Bryanna said on 5 Jul 2007 at 4:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’ve heard you speak and it’s from the heart. Being an activist is an important job and very few are willing to do it.

    When activist like us fight for a cause, we encounter people who don’t want us meddling in their business, or messing up their plans. They will try to intimidate or scare you into going away. Don’t do let them drive you away.

    They are part of the problem, you’re part of the solution. You’re a community leader. You speak for those who don’t have the courage, time or understanding. You’re not doing this for political gain, or to make yourself look good. You’re no mystery, no smoke and mirrors, you care so much that you’re willing to sacrifice your time and energy to help make a difference.

    It is people like you that make people accountable for their actions. Activism is one of the many things that makes our Nation great. Don’t ever stop being you because we need more people like you. Encourage everyone you know to do something, send an email, write a letter to the editor, register to vote and vote out bad politicians that have failed us.


  109. Lafayette said on 5 Jul 2007 at 5:31 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ari Stotle,
    God bless you and my deepest thanks for your words. I’m not going away, if anything I’ll be more involved. See July 4th in Manassas, for my report on my calls to PWCBOS and visits. I have contacted my classmates to get and their families involved, if they still live here.

  110. redawn said on 6 Jul 2007 at 9:17 am:
    Flag comment

    Here is the article on peddlers in today’s MJM:

    “Manassas to reconsider peddler permits

    Friday, July 6, 2007

    What do you think?

    Ice cream is an extremely popular commodity in America.
    How it’s sold in Manassas in the future is apparently just as popular. On Thursday, the city’s Land Use Committee chose to recommend the revoking of all peddler’s licenses, which includes all push carts and moving vehicles that sell food.

    The recommendation will likely come to the council this month and then be voted on in August. If the recommendation holds up, those who have peddler’s licenses, issued annually, will be allowed to keep theirs until they expire with no possibility of renewal.

    Only those peddling at reasonable times of the week and at places such as the Farmer’s Market, festivals or on private property [seasonal sales] will be allowed permits. Those seasonal sales include the selling of fireworks for July 4, trees before Christmas and pumpkins before Thanksgiving.

    The impetus for the change came from a rash of recent resident complaints, as well as the desire of many council members to clean up the city’s image.

    Before Thursday’s meeting, there was a great deal of confusion on what peddlers are and what they are allowed to do in the city. The City Code section 82-1 states that it is unlawful to peddle or hawk goods, wares or merchandise on public streets or sidewalks. However, at the same time, the city had issued permits to 14 different peddlers, which includes five ice cream trucks and four fireworks stands.

    The reason for issuing the permits is based on Virginia State Code 58.1-3717 which defines a peddler and allows a local license tax to be imposed by the local government. The city currently charges $500 for a peddler’s permit. The same code provides the enabling legislation for the local government to designate, by ordinance, where licensed peddlers may sell merchandise.

    In the past, this wasn’t an issue as the majority of peddlers had set up either temporary or permanent locations on private property, such as shopping centers. The one street peddler was the seasonal ice cream truck, and that peddler was never stopped, according to police Chief John Skinner, because the department wasn’t aware what he was doing was a city code violation.

    And since resident complaints were never an issue in the past, the police never looked into citing the ice cream truck driver.

    Several of the council members, including Marc Aveni and Andrew Harrover, do not like the idea of both push cart peddlers and those peddlers that are stationary in neighborhoods such as Georgetown South. However, the issue of revoking the permit of the stationary peddler may be trickier, said Community Development Director Elizabeth Via, because they are technically considered retail sales and they have been granted a zoning permit to operate in a designated location.

    Currently, city police officers have the power to verify the permit status of a peddler on public property and then refer them to the Office for the Commissioner of the Revenue for an explanation of Code 82-1.

    However, it is up to the homeowners associations to notify police of any peddler activity. According to Skinner, police can’t cite or warn peddlers on private streets or sidewalks on their own.

    The peddlers issue had virtually everyone in the meeting voicing an opinion, from members of the public to City Manager Lawrence Hughes. He cited Nathan’s Hot Dogs as an example of a company that started as a street peddler outside a New York restaurant nearly 100 years ago and eventually expanded into an international company that boasts an annual hot dog eating contest.

    After Hughes cited the example, Aveni said, “Good for Nathan’s,” and then expressed doubt that the peddlers in Manassas would ever achieve that success.

    Vice Mayor Harry J. “Hal” Parrish expressed concern about the health risks of peddlers preparing foods such as tacos and bologna sandwiches, and wondered out loud the fate of the ice cream man.

    According to city attorney Robert Bendall, there was a public outcry when the town of Culpeper considered a similar measure a few years ago. If there isn’t one in Manassas, children won’t be hearing that familiar music in their neighborhoods ever again.”

  111. redawn said on 6 Jul 2007 at 10:39 am:
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    lListening live to WMAL re: Stippup’s resolution……heard your comments ,EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  112. redawn said on 6 Jul 2007 at 10:44 am:
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    Greg is speaking now……

    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  113. redawn said on 6 Jul 2007 at 10:45 am:
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    *Stirrup’s resolution…

  114. redawn said on 6 Jul 2007 at 1:26 pm:
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  115. Original American said on 11 Jul 2007 at 6:09 pm:
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    I have been watching with interest your endeavors to rid your district of those pesky, swarthy Latino “illegal aliens.” Bravo! But why stop there? Why not get rid of all illegal aliens while you’re at it? That would include all of you European, African, Asian, Jewish, and Middle-Eastern Americans. You see, my people were Native Americans from Virginia, and they certainly never gave any of your ancestors permission to settle onto our land. Your people simply “showed up” on our shores unannounced, and they immediately became “legal” (whatever that means), mostly by performing the simple task of filing through Ellis Island for processing. Now that you people feel that you have a strong foothold in our land after dubiously claiming it for yourselves, you suddenly want to make it very difficult for anyone else to come here. As a result, for those Latinos who “show up” at our borders unannounced (just as your ancestors did) you now want to deny them the same privileges that were courtiously extended to your grandparents, resulting in the unflattering label of “illegal alien” being tagged onto them. That is just about the biggest load of hypocritical, “holier-than-thou” bullcrap that I have ever heard.

    All of these people who are crying and whining about the “illegal alien problem” and calling for their immediate deportation need to pry open their ignorant, overly-privileged, ethnocentric minds and accept the FACT that anyone in “America” who is not of Native American descent (excluding most Latinos, ironically, who ARE of Native American descent) is here in this land on a flawed premise to begin with.

    I have dark, “Latino-looking” physical features (resulting from my Native American heritage) that lead many European Americans to believe that I may be “one of them illegal aliens,” resulting in my often being rudely questioned about my heritage. However, the next time that some of your racially-profiling, jack-booted thugs masquerading as law-inforcement officers pull me over for “weaving” or some other trumped-up charge — with the real intention of determining my citizenship status (an illegal act that I have already been subjected to several times) — I will gladly refuse to cooperate with them, allow them to arrest me, then contact the ACLU, in hopes of creating a landmark case to show you people just how absurd, disturbing, and even criminal your actions are becoming.

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