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Stirrup Battles A Nutjob
By Greg L | 19 July 2007 | Zapatistas, Prince William County | 64 Comments
Gainesville Supervisor John Stirrup will face off against Nancy Lyall of the Woodbridge Workers Committee at 4PM and 11PM on News Channel 8. This should be very interesting.
Nancy Lyall is the “legal coordinator” for the Woodbridge Worker’s Committee, although in her day job she is the “Administrative Coordinator for Multicultural Education” for the Prince William County Public Schools, and is not an attorney. She’s participated in conferences which teach Zapatista organizing principles to some far-left groups, helping to insure that the Communist-inspired principles of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation are firmly promoted in Prince William County. On the subject of whether we should deport criminal illegal aliens or not, she had this to say:
“The MOU [memorandum of understanding] has become a quick fix to the reactionary and hateful voices here in Prince William County that prefer to exclude people of color rather than invest in the work of building a community that honors and respects its diversity.”
This is a world-class nutjob. Supervisor Stewart is going to bury her. After that, then we can talk about whether these people should be in charge of developing the curriculum for the Prince William County Schools.
UPDATE: I’ve been told that Nancy Lyall no longer works for Prince William County Schools. Amen to that.
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Your last talking point is the one that we should all be most concerned with. Scary.
Why is this woman employed in Prince William County? I get sick to my stomach that any of my tax dollars goes to pay her salary.
By the way, my husband is a legal immigrant. He will be the first to tell anyone that this isn’t racism. It is about following our laws. If you don’t follow the laws, you hate this country and you hate its citizens and that is Anti-American ( could that be called racism? )
Nancy Lyall, you make me glad that I homeschool my daughter. I’m so glad she is not subjected to your propaganda. Nancy Lyall, you need to resign your position or a lot of parents are going to ask the school board to terminate you. You’ve just called the parents of school kids racist.
Shame on you Nancy Lyall.
Looks like others think this “nut job” is unethical.
http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/list/lyall.html
Texas and Arizona are making their kids learn Spanish in their classrooms (even going as far as learning our beloved pledge of allegiance in Spanish!!!). When will this madness end? Homeschooling is the only option!
WOW!!
“Lyall and Jacinto begin by describing illegals as “new immigrants who may lack official residency paperwork.”"
Folks, it is time to call the School Board and ask why this person is employed with PWC schools. Do you think it is right for her to call the parents of children who attend PWC schools, racist? She said it right on News Channel 8.
Nancy Lyall, you need to resign.
The school system is run by the NEA since many if not most teachers belong to the NEA. It is not surprising to see such a person employed by the school system. The NEA recently came out with their opinion on illegal aliens, and this is a shock, but they support them. In fact, they do not even like the term “illegal” because it criminalizes aliens.
The only reason the NEA supports illegal aliens is because they get more money. More kids need education, thus more teachers are needed, so NEA gets to suck up union dues. They don’t want to see their cash cows leave.
Here is a link to a Washington Times article about the NEA and their support of illegal aliens.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070705/NATION/107050060/-1/RSS_NATION_POLITICS
OP…
What is official residency paper work anyway? I guess a bank robber is a person who lacks official withdraw paper work.
But they are criminals (lets see…identity theft, entering our country unlawfully, residing here unlawfully, stealing benefits that belong to legal residents, etc.). They are “illegal aliens” because they are criminals and should be deported!
Yes, we need to make demands on our Public School System. The word needs to get out there that Nancy Lyall,Gonzales,Bell and a few more teachers that still are in our class rooms,go out and participate in the boycote meetings that the day laborers do. The group that went from Potomac H. S. to Totos Market on Rt. One led students from the school up Rt. One to this spot. One of the high Department Heads, with some of those previously mentioned were leading the charge.
I wonder if Prince William deducted pay from these County Employees?
Woodbridge is now having a man run for Supervisor,that carried a banner in the protest with the day labores at Rt. One.The wife is already on the school board.Will we see further deteriation of our Laws and Way of life.?
It has to stop now.
If one wants to live here and be accepted,one has to respect what our forefathers passed on to us.We are The United States of America.
I agree with Fed Up. This is America….we speak English here (not Spanish). We also learn and appreciate what our forefathers did for us. Our kids should not be learning Mexican history, etc. They should be learning about our heritage as a country. Our kids should not be forced to be in schools with kids that cannot speak English. We must stop all of this madness now! It is time for everyone to step up to the plate and demand action. Multiculturalism has devastated our American heritage…we must get it back! There is a reason why we have immigration laws…it allows only enough people in so that our infrastructure does not collapse, people are screened medically, and allows ample time for the people to assimilate (into our culture…not us adapting to theirs). The critical word is assimilate! We do not see assimilation happening now due to this emphasis on multiculturalism and bi-lingual education. Tom Tancredo explains it best…so please read his views on this and take action.
Fed Up-
Why didn’t you mention these people by name?
Here’s another “nutjob” I am getting so sick of these people I WANT TO PUKE!!!!!!!!
http://www.hardbeatnews.com/editor/RTE/my_documents/my_files/details.asp?newsid=13201&title=Top%20Stories
What these people are saying is that they should not be held responsible for committing felonies because it seperates them from their families. So, can we not assume from this that it would only be fair that citizens who have the right to be in this country and commit felonies should also not be held responsible as they may separated from their families. LET’S HEAR IT FOR ANARCHY! (just in case…sarcasm alert)
Yep, breaking the law tends to separate families - just ask the inmates in our jails.
I see the Potnews is reaching out all the way to the left coast (Sacremento Bee) to inform illegals on how to avoid detention. See today’s story on page A7.
I note that the ICE quote says:
“”The bottom line is that any noncitizen who is in the United States is required to have proof of a legal right to be in the United States with them at all time.”
I’m surprised that the Potnews highlighted that quote.
I couldn’t find the story online on Pot News, but here it is from SacBee:
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/280658-p2.html
I wonder if this link will let you get it without logging in:
http://www.sacbee.com/101/v-print/story/280658.html
It’s VERY well known (and has been for years) that the teacher’s, public education system, etc. is far to the Left. That being said, her quote which Greg put above is in lock step with most organizations (both Federal and local level) that have an office of “Administrative Coordinator for Multicultural Education” or ANYTHING that has “Multicultural” or the word “Diverse/Diversity” in it.
We definitely need to hold these people accountable - thank you, Greg, for doing just that. They are going after our children because they know that sooo many parents leave the raising of children to the school system and the TV sets.
THIS is a wake-up call (actually, we have had so many I think we, as parents, have been hitting the “snooze button”) to stop letting this happen to our children. It is NOT racist to believe in English first. The law applies to ALL people in this land but is written in ENGLISH.
NOTE: Please note that I believe there are MANY good teachers, principals, etc in PWC as well as many parents who DO play an active role in their children’s lives. But, there are also many who I just have to wonder about.
“A vocal, angry minority in their locality has manipulated the system … to convince the political leaders to enact a very punitive, anti-immigrant resolution,” he said. “We now see in Prince William County an example of government-sanctioned xenophobia. If anger and divisiveness is what they intended to achieve, they have succeeded.”
Walter Tejada, Vice Chairman, Arlington County Board of Supervisors
Washington Times, July 13, 2007
Contact Walter at:
countyboard@arlingtonva.us
Speaking of nutjobs. This guy may take top prize. I like to hear some of his solutions to fixing the problem. I guess he does not think HSM has any members from the City of Manassas.
http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173352061062&path=!opinion
Walter Tejada has a long history of that sort of thing. He’s probably the main reason that Arlington County is a sanctuary.
Someone ought to investigate what connections he has with the Zapatistas.
“Texas and Arizona are making their kids learn Spanish in their classrooms”
Interesting tidbit — School principals in Texas are now required to speak Spanish.
citizenofmanassas-”Speaking of nutjobs. This guy may take top prize.”
Some people just don’t get it………….and never will!
citizenofmanassas said on 20 Jul 2007 at 9:20 am,
Layfayette and I were discussing this on the thread “What’s in a Word”
check it out.
You know what is hilarious? We wouldn’t have the quantity of one particular group of people had they came here the LEGAL way! Our demographics have changed due to the large influx of illegal aliens (all around our country) which has gone unchecked! There is a reason for legal immigration…it allows assimilation to occur and it enables an infrastructure to be able to deal with the flow. We have become overburdened by one particular group of people (they know and we know who they are…just use your eyes and ears). Now with this large influx come the “demands” that we cater to their culture vice them adapting to ours. This must stop now!
“We wouldn’t have the quantity of one particular group of people had they came here the LEGAL way!”
I read somewhere that Mexico has used up it’s immigration quota in the USA for something like the next 4000 years.
here is another ” nut job”
http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173351653731&path=
John Light is absolutely right on the schools!!
I think “Loco(a) Lyall”, is a much better suited name.
As much as I dislike Nancy Lyll’s politics, I will defend her right of free speech. Prince William County does not own its employees and they may voice whatever political viewpoint they so desire, even if the viewpoint is repugnant to the readers here and to me. She does not speak for Prince William County.
Additionally, the multicultural office does very little to set academic curriculum. They are a resource. Schools, regardless of location, must play the hand they are dealt. Public schools must take the children of the geographical location they serve. It is the current law. That isn’t liberalism, that is reality.
I actually came away from several of the letters in this section rather enraged. There are a lot of people here shooting off their mouths over issues they know little about. First off, the NEA does not control Prince William County or any other jurisdiction in Virginia. They certainly do not set policy. I simply do not know where this idea comes from.
Virginia is a right to work state. In Virginia, NEA and its state and local affiliates have no powers of collective bargaining. Non-binding arbitration is about as good as it gets. The local Meet and Confer sessions between PWEA and the School Board establish teacher pay and working conditions. That is about it.
NEA can say any thing it wants to say….it doesn’t make it so and it doesn’t translate into policy in Virginia. So lets direct the focus elsewhere. Disagree with Nancy Lyll. I certainly do. But to call for her ousting from her ‘day job’ simply because of her political viewpoint is rather un-American. If her politics interfer with her competency at her day job, then by all means, go at it. However, nothing I have read here documents that this is the case.
Actually, dolphin, I have to disagree with you a couple of points. She can EASILY influence policy either thru the connections she makes BECAUSE of her job (which normally she would not have access to) or by the shear fact that she works in that office the newspapers quote her and reference her work for the county government. Whether or not what she says to the media is accurate, to the average person she IS representative of the school system.
The other point is the influence of the NEA. Yes, Virginia IS a Right to Work state but to say that they do NOT influence teachers as a whole is a dangerous statment to make. I can remember back not too long ago when the meals tax was going to be voted on for the 3rd time, teachers at Dale City Elementary were passing out fliers to the children to take home that were IN FAVOR of the tax!!!! Mind you time has moved on since that incident and my children there DID have many excellent teachers, but THAT was DEFINITELY over the line.
PWC ALSO has an excellent school board, one that for the VAST majority of the time gets it right (oh, by the way, the vast majority ARE of “the Right”). That being said, the National School Board Association tends to be TO THE LEFT. For THIS reason the “perception” is that ALL School Boards are Left wing, when that just is not the case. Just another example of “the mother” organization not having any control over what the local organization says or does yet STILL has influence.
Should we “oust” Lyll? I don’t have the answer to that. Maybe what we should do is review her contract and see if there is anything in there to PROHIBIT her activities in anything “UnAmerican” or “joining organizations which have or may attempt to overthrow or negatively influence the government.”
anon: I have heard of WalMarts in some of the border states giving change in Peso’s and if you want the change in U.S. dollars, you have to ask first. Heard this on either G. Gordon Liddy or Rush Limbaugh a few years back.
John, I believe the only legitimate restriction in a contract with the school board is ‘moral turpitude,’ other than the usual stuff like drug use, stealing, etc. I do not think there is anything about Un-American organizations. I hate defending things I do not like. But I think in fairness, Nancy Lyll can belong to whatever organizations she choses, even if it were some skinhead organization or the KKK, as long as her activities were not illegal. Then the old ambiguous ‘moral turpitude’ could kick in. I worked for the county for many many years and never quite figured out what moral turpitude really was, other than if they wanted you gone, you would be.
As for the meals tax issue, I believe that there was something sent home stating what the meals tax would do for the school system. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that. If that happened as I stated, then it would have been authorized by the School Board or by Dr. Kelly. It would have had nothing to do with NEA or PWEA. I am not real sure it is appropriate to send home any political materials with students. If I were king, it wouldn’t have happened.
As for NEA influence….I was a member for years. They sure didn’t influence me or anyone else I know. I would say, just off the top of my head, that the average reader here is probably much more influenced by Rush Limbaugh or G. Gordon Liddy far more than the average teacher is influenced by the NEA. And I guess my feeling would also be, so what if they are influenced. All I know is that NEA has almost no influence on policy in Prince William County. the local organization, PWEA, deals with working conditions and salary, certainly nothing that anyone would consider seditious.
I haven’t heard Nancy Lyll speak in a number of years, other than blurbs in the paper. If she is as far out as I am reading in here, then she can easily be attacked on her ideas, rather than her vocation. Truthfully, I wondered if she still even worked for the county. I guess she does.
I feel that we have very serious, complex immigration issues here in the Manassas area. When I start hearing the main issues diffused by other bones to pick, then I get concerned.
Members of this group seem to have gotten a great deal accomplished. I respect that. However, when firebrands start gouging at liberals, democrats, and other such repugnant beasts, I feel the group as a whole loses its effectiveness. The Manassas problem is bi-partisan. I believe our local Powers that Be, the supervisors, voted unanimously on the Stirrup Resolution. We need to look at what we have in common rather than finger point at those we THINK are not like us. And yes, I am an independent moderate. Real dog meat, for sure.
Dolph
“I can remember back not too long ago when the meals tax was going to be voted on for the 3rd time, teachers at Dale City Elementary were passing out fliers to the children to take home that were IN FAVOR of the tax!!!!”
It didn’t only happen there John. My kids were in Nokesville Elementary at the time and, as soon as I found out about it, I DEMANDED that the flyers be pulled (fortunately, before they had been fully distributed) and looked into their origin. The Principal had been told that they came from the School Board, which they had not. The Superintendent at the time (Kelly) also knew nothing of them. There was only possible source…I’ll leave that to your imagination.
Correction: “only ONE possible source”
Oh boy we have a genuine NEA defender. No, they have no influence whatsoever. Nether does nutjob Nancy. Tell me defender of the liberal group NEA, what exactly goes on during those “multicultural” day workshops?
The fact your dander is up about the attack on the NEA tells me we have hit a pretty decent sized nerve. You can write all your want in order to down play the NEA, and go on about right to work bla bla bla. That of course is just an attempt on your part to shift the topic. The NEA is nothing but a liberal punk group that does not allow any freedom of expression or politics within their organization to disagree with their liberal brainwashing agenda.
I have a number of friends and family members who are teachers and I hear a constant theme from them regarding the NEA. It is not pretty. Then couple that with their stupid stance on illegal aliens and what you end up with is a bunch of nutjobs.
dolphin,
Nancy called the citizens of PWC racist on News Channel 8. I saw it. I think she is at odds with the parents of the children that she is resposible for. Yes, curriculum does influence children and she gets her input no doubt. I knew a teacher who worked for Fairfax County and she told me things that would anger anyone. Its not reading or writing or arithmetic anymore. It is overt social engineering of young vulnerable children and they know it. She knows it. If citizens can vote for school boards then I think they also should voice their concerns over an employee of the school system who is hostile to them.
COM, I have not defended the NEA. I said the NEA has little or no influence over policy in Prince William County Schools. I don’t give a rat’s rear end about the NEA one way or another. I have not defended Nancy Lyll’s politics, nor will I.
I am not even sure I can explain my outrage to someone who obviously thinks that a person should be fired from their vocation because of their avocation. Perhaps I read this wrong, but I think what I am hearing is that Nancy Lyll should be fired because her political viewpoint and her political activity is ‘wrong.’ I find that almost as offensive as I find Nancy Lyll’s politics. In a free society, people may think what they want to think, regardless of how misguided that thinking really is.
There is some inuendo here that because we don’t like Nancy Lyll’s politics, we can make her pay by causing her problems with her employer. I just think that is dirty pool.
Patty, of course curriculum influences children. However, I am not aware of any multicultural curriculum being taught in Prince William County schools. Point me in the right direction. There are multicultural resources available. As for workshops, COM, I have no clue. I believe they are optional. Fill me in on what does go on. I have never attended one.
Probably 30% of the school population in Pr. Wm County is hispanic. NCLB mandates that all children achieve. Particular attention is paid to those who are non-English speaking and who are minorities. If a certain percent of these students do not make satisfactory progress, major ding…your school makes headlines. People lose jobs.
The above is an oversimplification of the process, but it hits the highlights. Is it political? You had better believe it. No where have I seen anyone howling over this outrage. All I see is schools being attacked. It sounds like a lose-lose situation for schools.
Dolph
Well, Dolph, for starters, I think PWC should restrict county jobs to individuals who will uphold law and order. If they are advocating something else, then they should leave county-paid positions and work someplace else. And calling people who want the law enforced and who are getting active to restore law and order racist, shows intolerance. That’s when avocation is detrimental to her vocation/career.
Well said Legal 2
I think parents need to know what kind of people are hired that can influence their children. Of course there are some who think parents do not have the right to direct the education of their children. Am I right Dolphin? I’ll bet you come from the camp that says government knows better how to educate children than parents.
Dolphin,
The workshop is attended by both teachers and students they cover multicultural issues and that is where the influence comes in from Patty. I expect someone in her position to have influence over her department. I think it would be pretty ignorant to not think that.
The fact she voices her opinion on the airways as she did also is bad for the County. How do we know she is able to “separate” her own personal feelings from her official duties as a County employee? We can’t, which is why she should be more careful in airing her views in public.
Well, in the private sector, an employee who goes out and publicly espouses a position detrimental to the employer probably wouldn’t be employed very long…or at least not in the same position.
Dolphin,
Take a look at some of the schools being set up by the NCLR? Don’t you think that if things continue the way they are (with the people that would hold to the values in this video) there would be a negative impact on our kids? Of course they would! Get a grip! Politics DO NOT belong in our schools. Watch and learn from this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1XAQc8hS8&mode=related&search
A person that actively supports illegal aliens and their agenda should NOT be teaching our impressionable kids! Any person can certainly think what they want….however….if it is politically motivated and it manages to have an impact on our kids….that is out of order!
Nothing like defending the first amendment to rattle people’s cages. I am not even sure Ms. Lyll still works for the county. You might want to check that out. Her job was also not classroom instruction.
I don’t think politics belong in the classroom either. Kids are a captive audience and should not be subjected to any instructor’s dogma. Any political materials should be presented in an unbiased way, if that subject is part of the curriculum.
Patty, no, I do not think government knows best. That is why I am so opposed to NCLB. I think the federal government has taken away a lot of decision-making from local jurisdictions. I do believe that professional educators often, not always, have better skills to teach academic curriculum in their content area. As I parent, I would be hard pressed to teach French to my child. The worst French teacher could do a better job than I could.
COM, yes, the multicultural office sponsors workshops. The workshops have themes most people would call diversity. Over 50% of the students are non-white in Prince Willliam County. In light of these statistics, I am not sure this is a bad thing.
Patriot, I am totally unfamiliar with the group you directed me to. I don’t know where it fits into this discussion. I referred to NCLB, the No Child Left Behind Act that is totally dictating what and how your children are being taught. I srrongly urge those of you who are concerned about the impact of immigration on your families to familiarize yourself with what this act is really doing to schools. This act is up for renewal in the very near future. I have not heard so much as a whimper from the community on this important issue.
I don’t care what people are being told, or what window dressing is put on NCLB, your schools are being evaluated by how well economically deprived students, special ed students, English as a second language students, and minority students score on the state SOL tests. If you hear your child’s school is on probation because it did not make AYP, you had better start asking some questions. It means that students in one of the above mentioned sub-groups did not make the annual yearly progress as deemed acceptable by the feds.
I would be far more concerned over the impact of NCLB than some loud-mouth in a rather insignificant department of Prince William County. NCLB is the engine driving the proverbial train and is totally directing what and how your children are taught.
Dolph
Dolph. Are we to pick and choose which subversives we allow to be tax-funded while they destroy American institutions?
INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
2006 (First Quarter)
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually
53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport coyotes”.
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.
BIRTH STATISTICS
380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens and, under our laws, entitled to invite the rest of their family to join them.
97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.
66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
There are a lot of us racist Americans that still believe in our Constitution Article IV Section IV against invasion & the rule of law as this Rasmussen report shows that was taken after the Amnesty bill was defeated!
Here is an excerpt from a recent Rasmussen Report on why the Senate immigration bill failed. You can read the entire report at: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/why_the_senate_immigration_bill_failed
“… The immigration bill failed because a broad cross-section of the American people are opposed to it. Republicans, Democrats, and unaffiliated voters are opposed. Men are opposed. So are women. The young don’t like it; neither do the no-longer-young. White Americans are opposed. Americans of color are opposed …
“The last Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll found that just 23% of Americans supported the legislation …
“In the minds of most Americans, immigration reform means reducing illegal immigration and enforcing the border. Only 16% believed the Senate bill would accomplish that goal.
“… From the beginning, the Senate approached the issue with top priority of addressing the legal status of the illegal aliens. They addressed concerns about guest-worker programs and questions about whether family or skill level should be more important when determining who could enter the country.
“All of those are important questions, but they are not the most important question. Rasmussen Reports polling found that 72% of Americans believe its Very Important to reduce illegal immigration and enforce the borders. Just 29% said it was Very Important to legalize the status of those illegally living in the country today.
“… We live in a world where most Americans believe that most Members of Congress will sell their vote for cash or a campaign contribution. Only 16% believe the legislators’ votes are not for sale. By a nearly 5-to-1 margin, voters believe that Members of Congress are more interested in their own careers and agenda rather than the public good.
“In that environment, the only way for political leaders to prove they are serious about enforcing the border and reducing illegal immigration will be to do it. That’s the next logical step in the immigration debate.
“… The United States is a nation of immigrants. It is also a nation of laws. Voters want to honor both aspects of the national heritage. And, like good parents trying to instill values in their children, voters want their elected representatives to do the same.”
So you see, I am not alone in my viewpoint. Secure our borders and enforce the laws that are already on the books to reduce illegal immigration — and reduce it to the point that it is virtually halted for good. Do that first. Then, and only then, will I and my fellow Americans are willing to hear your proposals for legalization process of illegals (some of them, not all). Then, and only then, will I and my fellow Americans be willing to hear your proposals for a limited guest worker program that does not threaten American wages and jobs that Americans most certainly WILL do.
Legal2,
I don’t know if I would classify a Congressional Act, endorsed and favored by the president a subversive. I would probably call it a very bad law when the surface is scratched.
I would say that Ms. Lyall has very little impact on Prince William County Schools whereas NCLB governs and rules what is taught, when something is taught, and pretty much how something is taught. I also do not believe Ms. Lyall still works for Prince William. Therefore, I believe it is a matter of priorities.
Here is the problem. Who gets to decide who is a subversive? Let’s take a real inflammatory subject: Abortion protest. Abortion is legal. Are those dedicated pro-lifers protesting the abolition of abortion at local clinics subversives? They are demonstrating against what has been determined, rightly or wrongly, to be a legal action in this country. Should a county employee be fired for participating in anti-abortion protest? I think most of us would probably say no.
Dolphin…you just answered the question at hand with:
“Here is the problem. Who gets to decide who is a subversive? Let’s take a real inflammatory subject: Abortion protest. Abortion is legal. Are those dedicated pro-lifers protesting the abolition of abortion at local clinics subversives? They are demonstrating against what has been determined, rightly or wrongly, to be a legal action in this country. Should a county employee be fired for participating in anti-abortion protest? I think most of us would probably say no.”
This however, is not what is happening. The people like Ms. Lyall are supporting things that are ILLEGAL! Illegals entered our country illegally, reside here illegally, steal benefits that are only supposed to be for LEGAL U.S. citizens, steal identities to operate illegally, etc. People that support these illegals are breaking the law by aiding and abetting. Do you see it clear now?
Patriot,
I don’t think Dolphin will see clearly. I agree, these illegal supporters are also violating the laws. They too must be delt with. All that support the “illegal invasion” are as guilty as the illegal aliens themselves.
If we did this to Mexico they would take action but not our PC corrupt politicians!
In yet another stunning demonstration of the fact that Mexico is inhabited and governed by third-world banditos incapable of reasoned thought, Mexican officials threatened to take the United States to the United Nations. In other words, this corrupt bunch of third-world idiots is under the misguided notion that America has no sovereign rights or borders, and that our great nation should be open to every Mexican peasant that decides unilaterally to squat in America.
* Did the United States violate the sovereignty and borders of Mexico by encouraging 20 million illiterate American peasants to cross the border illegally?
* Did American illegal aliens feed at the public trough for health care, education, food, housing and other vital services to which they were not entitled, and which cost Mexican taxpayers hundreds of billions of pesos each year?
* Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexican hospitals, medical clinics, and emergency rooms and refuse to pay for medical services received?
* Did the impact of serving American illegal aliens force scores of medical facilities into bankruptcy, resulting in the loss of vital medical services for Mexican citizens?
* Did American illegal aliens who refused to pay for medical services manage to send $30 billion a year back to the United States?
* Did American illegal aliens refuse to learn Spanish, and demand that Mexico provide services in English at considerable cost to Mexican citizens?
* Did the children of American illegal aliens slow down and otherwise impede the education of Mexican children because of language and cultural issues?
* Did American illegal aliens demand driver’s licenses despite being in Mexico illegally? Did they demand that driver instruction and testing materials be in English?
* Did American illegal aliens demand the same reduced tuition rates offered to Mexican students there legally?
* Did American illegal aliens vote in Mexican elections and alter election results?
* Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexico’s penal system, making it impossible to deal with the citizen inmate population?
* Did the largest state in Mexico contract with another Mexican state for the housing and care of 15,000 inmates because of the impact of American illegal aliens?
* Did American illegal aliens engage in wholesale forgery of vital public documents and commit identity theft in order to secure employment, education, credit, and access to public services?
* Did American illegal aliens in Mexico in 1986 receive amnesty in an attempt by the Mexican government to end illegal migrations once and for all?
* Did the Mexican government refuse to enforce the provisions of the amnesty, thereby causing the American illegal alien problem to grow seven times greater in the span of 20 years?
* Did millions of American illegal aliens take to the streets to protest pending legislation in the Mexican congress that would tighten border security and enforce the nation’s immigration laws?
* Did American illegal aliens wave Old Glory and scream “Yes we can!” and “We are Mexico!” in English as they marched to protest the rule of law in Mexico?
* Did American illegal aliens cry “Racism” every time they were criticized for being in Mexico illegally or challenged to learn Spanish and assimilate into Mexican society?
None of the above is correct, although each and every one would provide more than adequate justification for diplomatic, and perhaps military, action by the offended nation against the offender nation.
In fact, however, Mexican officials threatened to take the United States to the UN over the border fence legislation that was signed into law by President Bush this week. Go here: http://theconservativevoice.com/article/19034.html
Patriot and Lafayette, You both missed my point. Who decides was the question. Let’s move the example of the question out of the neighborhood….lets take another, somewhat less controversial issue, assisted suicide for terminally ill patients. What if Susie Q protested in favor of legalizing assisted suicide which is illegal now, in Virginia. Would Susie be subject to termination because she is a county employee?
My issue here is NOT whether Ms. Lyall is correct in her beliefs, but whether or not a county employee loses their first amendment rights because he/she works for the county.
As I read what you both have written, I am now questioning the idea of the thought police. Our country was founded by subversives. I hardly think King George III sanctioned the actions of the Boston Tea Party or the signing of the Declaration of Independence. People do have the right to protest those ideas which they believe to be wrong, even if those ideas support things currently illegal. Signing a contract with the county does not automatically disable the employee’s right to free speech, regardless of how ridiculous the speech becomes.
What I clearly see are a few people who want to control others: what they think and what they do because they are …shudder….taxpayers. That kind of self-aggrandizement is all BS and bluster.
BTW, I hate having to defend things I find repugnant…
Dolph
Dolph, my question was NOT “who decides”; it is: Are we to pick and choose WHICH subversives we allow to be tax-funded while they destroy American institutions? I don’t know of any pro-life group that is federally funded, but sure know of lots of pro-abort groups that are: Planned Parenthood, for one. I would not want pro-death Susie Q to have any job tending to my health and well-being: day care, hospital, assisted living, nursing home, or political office. She could iron shirts and I wouldn’t be concerned about her opinions.
Legal2,
MY question was, who decides who is subversive. The question remains unanswered. Until we decide upon who gets to decide, then I cannot answer your question.
If you get to decide, then everyone who doesn’t goose step in line with the arch conservative thinking you seem dedicated to is in serious trouble and if I understand you correctly, should not work for any government agency or institution.
Now, I believe that you have the right to think as you want to think. I even think you should be allowed to work for Prince William County, as long as you do not try to endoctrinate those who are a captive audience. As much as I do not espouse Ms. Lyall’s current vocation, I would not have called for her ousting when she worked for Prince William County Schools, unless she tried to endoctrinate. I just do not think that signing a contract with the county immediately takes away your first amendment rights. They don’t own you.
As for Susie Q…..I guess I am speechless. Are you seriously saying that because a person advocates for euthanasia for terminally ill patients when the patient has clearly made his/her wishes known, that person is unfit to work for the county? I do believe that advocating for change and snuffing people are 2 different things.
Dolph
The Constitution decides who is subversive. Are marxist/socialist groups inimical to our established gov’t a threat? Should change agents involved with these groups that undermine our Constitution be paid with our taxes? The useful idiots who determined Roe v Wade (a case based on lies) actually subverted the Constitution by establishing law, rather than performing its function by interpreting the law. Democracy works as long as its gov’t remains moral, not corrupt. This country has been in serious trouble for a few decades.
I clearly recall during the RvW case, that pro-lifers warned that it would lead to euthanasia. Of course, they were discredited; what a leap!
(Socialism isn’t working in Latin America, so the underclass escape to the US and bring the problems here, where socialists work within our system for their rights to be the socialists they escaped. And the masses they represent remain an exploited underclass.)
Yes, I believe the ideology that drives a person affects their work ethic.
All things are not equal; advocacy for special privileges for illegal aliens is not the same as advocacy for the common good. *Diversity* actually divides, rather than unites.
The Constitution cannot decide anything. It is an inanimate document. I also think you are dodging my question.
I want to know who decides what activities Prince William County employees can participate in.
Legal2,
The right to die issues will become less absolute as the baby boomers age. Right to die has absolutely nothing to do with abortion in reality. Try sitting with a dying mother who was not going to get well, and you will understand. We are kinder to our animals than our human loved ones.
Dolph
I’m glad I’m not your mother - I’m sure you will agree.
Legal2,
Most assuredly.
She was a fine southern lady who is no longer alive.
Sadly, she was ready to die. She was ill, in pain, and I wish it could have been quicker for her. That would have been her wish.
Oregon is the only civilized state in the Union on this issue.
However, this is off topic and I am almost sorry I used Susie Q as an example. The issue is just a little too close still.
Back to the topic at hand.
Dolph
I am sorry about your mother. I lost my mother about 5 years ago under similar circumstances. But she was a lady of deep faith who greatly respected life and believed human beings were above mere animals, human suffering having purpose. I suppose you and I don’t have common ground.
God bless you.
Legal2,
My condolences for the passing of your mother. I don’t guess we ever really get over it.
I believe you hit the nail on the head. We don’t have much common ground. My mother would have placed her dogs and her horse over many human beings she encountered in her life. A cat she would have drowned in a New York minute. A snake would have met the business end of a shovel even faster.
She was a native Virginian, which probably explains the above. Her grandfather spanked her and all her cousins if they said Abraham Lincoln. The name was considered a cuss word when they were growing up.
She wasn’t much for any organized religion but was very devout in her own way. Interestingly enough, up until close to the end of her life, she would not sign a living will. She said ‘my children will know what to do.’ I looked at her when I heard that and said oh geez, thanks (as sarcastically as I could). Yet she signed herself into hospice care at age 85.
I just believe people have a right to die as humanely as possible, when that is the what is going to happen anyway and it is their choice. I sure hope my beliefs would not ever be some sort of litmus test as a condition of employment for Prince William County.
Dolph
The issue is not whether or not said “nut job” has 1st amendment rights. The issue, as I see it, is that the school system has something called a “multicultural office.” The fact that there is such a thing is a disgrace. Ask around- no other school system in the area has such an office (not even the People’s Republic of Arlington). You should see the list of guest speakers that office brings in each Spring for their “MULTICULTURAL INSTITUTE.” Most school systems do just fine with a human resource office/EEOC (don’t get me started), or a history department- where they stand some chance of getting MULTIple PERSPECTIVES on historic events- without the ideological twisting that MULTICULTURALISM produces.
By the way, Nancy Lyall does not work for the multicultural office in PWCS anymore. She has not been employed in that position for more than two years.
Multicultural education is a threat to the preservation of American ideals and the belief in a common American civic culture. It also threatens to replace solid historical scholarship with sham stories of ethnic fairy tales, romanticized tales of Marxist heroes, and usually condemnations of the Founding Fathers as evil slaveholders with no redeeming values. For an interesting read on this, check out “The Disuniting of America,” by Arthur Schlesinger Jr. He was no red state radical right-winger but a true believer in the Great Society. Even HE thought this scourge was truly bad for our country’s future. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n9_v44/ai_12122328/pg_1.