By the way, Nancy Lyall does not work for the multicultural office in PWCS anymore. She has not been employed in that position for more than two years.

Multicultural education is a threat to the preservation of American ideals and the belief in a common American civic culture. It also threatens to replace solid historical scholarship with sham stories of ethnic fairy tales, romanticized tales of Marxist heroes, and usually condemnations of the Founding Fathers as evil slaveholders with no redeeming values. For an interesting read on this, check out “The Disuniting of America,” by Arthur Schlesinger Jr. He was no red state radical right-winger but a true believer in the Great Society. Even HE thought this scourge was truly bad for our country’s future. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n9_v44/ai_12122328/pg_1.

My condolences for the passing of your mother. I don’t guess we ever really get over it.

I believe you hit the nail on the head. We don’t have much common ground. My mother would have placed her dogs and her horse over many human beings she encountered in her life. A cat she would have drowned in a New York minute. A snake would have met the business end of a shovel even faster.

She was a native Virginian, which probably explains the above. Her grandfather spanked her and all her cousins if they said Abraham Lincoln. The name was considered a cuss word when they were growing up.

She wasn’t much for any organized religion but was very devout in her own way. Interestingly enough, up until close to the end of her life, she would not sign a living will. She said ‘my children will know what to do.’ I looked at her when I heard that and said oh geez, thanks (as sarcastically as I could). Yet she signed herself into hospice care at age 85.

I just believe people have a right to die as humanely as possible, when that is the what is going to happen anyway and it is their choice. I sure hope my beliefs would not ever be some sort of litmus test as a condition of employment for Prince William County.

Dolph

God bless you.

Most assuredly.

She was a fine southern lady who is no longer alive.

Sadly, she was ready to die. She was ill, in pain, and I wish it could have been quicker for her. That would have been her wish.

Oregon is the only civilized state in the Union on this issue.

However, this is off topic and I am almost sorry I used Susie Q as an example. The issue is just a little too close still.

Back to the topic at hand.

Dolph

The right to die issues will become less absolute as the baby boomers age. Right to die has absolutely nothing to do with abortion in reality. Try sitting with a dying mother who was not going to get well, and you will understand. We are kinder to our animals than our human loved ones.

Dolph

I want to know who decides what activities Prince William County employees can participate in.

I clearly recall during the RvW case, that pro-lifers warned that it would lead to euthanasia. Of course, they were discredited; what a leap!

(Socialism isn’t working in Latin America, so the underclass escape to the US and bring the problems here, where socialists work within our system for their rights to be the socialists they escaped. And the masses they represent remain an exploited underclass.)

Yes, I believe the ideology that drives a person affects their work ethic.

All things are not equal; advocacy for special privileges for illegal aliens is not the same as advocacy for the common good. *Diversity* actually divides, rather than unites.

MY question was, who decides who is subversive. The question remains unanswered. Until we decide upon who gets to decide, then I cannot answer your question.

If you get to decide, then everyone who doesn’t goose step in line with the arch conservative thinking you seem dedicated to is in serious trouble and if I understand you correctly, should not work for any government agency or institution.

Now, I believe that you have the right to think as you want to think. I even think you should be allowed to work for Prince William County, as long as you do not try to endoctrinate those who are a captive audience. As much as I do not espouse Ms. Lyall’s current vocation, I would not have called for her ousting when she worked for Prince William County Schools, unless she tried to endoctrinate. I just do not think that signing a contract with the county immediately takes away your first amendment rights. They don’t own you.

As for Susie Q…..I guess I am speechless. Are you seriously saying that because a person advocates for euthanasia for terminally ill patients when the patient has clearly made his/her wishes known, that person is unfit to work for the county? I do believe that advocating for change and snuffing people are 2 different things.

Dolph

My issue here is NOT whether Ms. Lyall is correct in her beliefs, but whether or not a county employee loses their first amendment rights because he/she works for the county.

As I read what you both have written, I am now questioning the idea of the thought police. Our country was founded by subversives. I hardly think King George III sanctioned the actions of the Boston Tea Party or the signing of the Declaration of Independence. People do have the right to protest those ideas which they believe to be wrong, even if those ideas support things currently illegal. Signing a contract with the county does not automatically disable the employee’s right to free speech, regardless of how ridiculous the speech becomes.

What I clearly see are a few people who want to control others: what they think and what they do because they are …shudder….taxpayers. That kind of self-aggrandizement is all BS and bluster.

BTW, I hate having to defend things I find repugnant…

Dolph

In yet another stunning demonstration of the fact that Mexico is inhabited and governed by third-world banditos incapable of reasoned thought, Mexican officials threatened to take the United States to the United Nations. In other words, this corrupt bunch of third-world idiots is under the misguided notion that America has no sovereign rights or borders, and that our great nation should be open to every Mexican peasant that decides unilaterally to squat in America.
* Did the United States violate the sovereignty and borders of Mexico by encouraging 20 million illiterate American peasants to cross the border illegally?
* Did American illegal aliens feed at the public trough for health care, education, food, housing and other vital services to which they were not entitled, and which cost Mexican taxpayers hundreds of billions of pesos each year?
* Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexican hospitals, medical clinics, and emergency rooms and refuse to pay for medical services received?
* Did the impact of serving American illegal aliens force scores of medical facilities into bankruptcy, resulting in the loss of vital medical services for Mexican citizens?
* Did American illegal aliens who refused to pay for medical services manage to send $30 billion a year back to the United States?
* Did American illegal aliens refuse to learn Spanish, and demand that Mexico provide services in English at considerable cost to Mexican citizens?
* Did the children of American illegal aliens slow down and otherwise impede the education of Mexican children because of language and cultural issues?
* Did American illegal aliens demand driver’s licenses despite being in Mexico illegally? Did they demand that driver instruction and testing materials be in English?
* Did American illegal aliens demand the same reduced tuition rates offered to Mexican students there legally?
* Did American illegal aliens vote in Mexican elections and alter election results?
* Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexico’s penal system, making it impossible to deal with the citizen inmate population?
* Did the largest state in Mexico contract with another Mexican state for the housing and care of 15,000 inmates because of the impact of American illegal aliens?
* Did American illegal aliens engage in wholesale forgery of vital public documents and commit identity theft in order to secure employment, education, credit, and access to public services?
* Did American illegal aliens in Mexico in 1986 receive amnesty in an attempt by the Mexican government to end illegal migrations once and for all?
* Did the Mexican government refuse to enforce the provisions of the amnesty, thereby causing the American illegal alien problem to grow seven times greater in the span of 20 years?
* Did millions of American illegal aliens take to the streets to protest pending legislation in the Mexican congress that would tighten border security and enforce the nation’s immigration laws?
* Did American illegal aliens wave Old Glory and scream “Yes we can!” and “We are Mexico!” in English as they marched to protest the rule of law in Mexico?
* Did American illegal aliens cry “Racism” every time they were criticized for being in Mexico illegally or challenged to learn Spanish and assimilate into Mexican society?
None of the above is correct, although each and every one would provide more than adequate justification for diplomatic, and perhaps military, action by the offended nation against the offender nation.
In fact, however, Mexican officials threatened to take the United States to the UN over the border fence legislation that was signed into law by President Bush this week. Go here: http://theconservativevoice.com/article/19034.html

I don’t know if I would classify a Congressional Act, endorsed and favored by the president a subversive. I would probably call it a very bad law when the surface is scratched.

I would say that Ms. Lyall has very little impact on Prince William County Schools whereas NCLB governs and rules what is taught, when something is taught, and pretty much how something is taught. I also do not believe Ms. Lyall still works for Prince William. Therefore, I believe it is a matter of priorities.

Here is the problem. Who gets to decide who is a subversive? Let’s take a real inflammatory subject: Abortion protest. Abortion is legal. Are those dedicated pro-lifers protesting the abolition of abortion at local clinics subversives? They are demonstrating against what has been determined, rightly or wrongly, to be a legal action in this country. Should a county employee be fired for participating in anti-abortion protest? I think most of us would probably say no.

Here is an excerpt from a recent Rasmussen Report on why the Senate immigration bill failed. You can read the entire report at: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/why_the_senate_immigration_bill_failed

“… The immigration bill failed because a broad cross-section of the American people are opposed to it. Republicans, Democrats, and unaffiliated voters are opposed. Men are opposed. So are women. The young don’t like it; neither do the no-longer-young. White Americans are opposed. Americans of color are opposed …

“The last Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll found that just 23% of Americans supported the legislation …

“In the minds of most Americans, immigration reform means reducing illegal immigration and enforcing the border. Only 16% believed the Senate bill would accomplish that goal.

“… From the beginning, the Senate approached the issue with top priority of addressing the legal status of the illegal aliens. They addressed concerns about guest-worker programs and questions about whether family or skill level should be more important when determining who could enter the country.

“All of those are important questions, but they are not the most important question. Rasmussen Reports polling found that 72% of Americans believe its Very Important to reduce illegal immigration and enforce the borders. Just 29% said it was Very Important to legalize the status of those illegally living in the country today.

“… We live in a world where most Americans believe that most Members of Congress will sell their vote for cash or a campaign contribution. Only 16% believe the legislators’ votes are not for sale. By a nearly 5-to-1 margin, voters believe that Members of Congress are more interested in their own careers and agenda rather than the public good.

“In that environment, the only way for political leaders to prove they are serious about enforcing the border and reducing illegal immigration will be to do it. That’s the next logical step in the immigration debate.

“… The United States is a nation of immigrants. It is also a nation of laws. Voters want to honor both aspects of the national heritage. And, like good parents trying to instill values in their children, voters want their elected representatives to do the same.”

So you see, I am not alone in my viewpoint. Secure our borders and enforce the laws that are already on the books to reduce illegal immigration — and reduce it to the point that it is virtually halted for good. Do that first. Then, and only then, will I and my fellow Americans are willing to hear your proposals for legalization process of illegals (some of them, not all). Then, and only then, will I and my fellow Americans be willing to hear your proposals for a limited guest worker program that does not threaten American wages and jobs that Americans most certainly WILL do.

I don’t think politics belong in the classroom either. Kids are a captive audience and should not be subjected to any instructor’s dogma. Any political materials should be presented in an unbiased way, if that subject is part of the curriculum.

Patty, no, I do not think government knows best. That is why I am so opposed to NCLB. I think the federal government has taken away a lot of decision-making from local jurisdictions. I do believe that professional educators often, not always, have better skills to teach academic curriculum in their content area. As I parent, I would be hard pressed to teach French to my child. The worst French teacher could do a better job than I could.

COM, yes, the multicultural office sponsors workshops. The workshops have themes most people would call diversity. Over 50% of the students are non-white in Prince Willliam County. In light of these statistics, I am not sure this is a bad thing.

Patriot, I am totally unfamiliar with the group you directed me to. I don’t know where it fits into this discussion. I referred to NCLB, the No Child Left Behind Act that is totally dictating what and how your children are being taught. I srrongly urge those of you who are concerned about the impact of immigration on your families to familiarize yourself with what this act is really doing to schools. This act is up for renewal in the very near future. I have not heard so much as a whimper from the community on this important issue.

I don’t care what people are being told, or what window dressing is put on NCLB, your schools are being evaluated by how well economically deprived students, special ed students, English as a second language students, and minority students score on the state SOL tests. If you hear your child’s school is on probation because it did not make AYP, you had better start asking some questions. It means that students in one of the above mentioned sub-groups did not make the annual yearly progress as deemed acceptable by the feds.

I would be far more concerned over the impact of NCLB than some loud-mouth in a rather insignificant department of Prince William County. NCLB is the engine driving the proverbial train and is totally directing what and how your children are taught.

Dolph