Driving liberals, dhimmis and illegal alien apologists absolutely insane since 2005...

I Get Some Press

By Greg L | 22 July 2007 | Blogs | 310 Comments

The Washington Post has an article in today’s edition about me that deserves a little clarification.

Although I used the title The Terrorist vs. The Homosexual to headline a post in March of this year about a possible Faisal Gill campaign against Jeff Dion for the 51st House of Delegates seat, I’ve never said that Faisal Gill is actually a terrorist, not do I believe he is one.  At the time this moniker was widely used by insiders in both Republican and Democrat circles, which seemed to generate a fair amount of amusement by insiders, and it was worth repeating it as the title of the post at the time.

Other than that, about the only complaint I might have is that of all the pictures that they shot, the only one that appears in the online version doesn’t include my oldest daughter.  She was awfully happy about the prospect of seeing her picture in the paper, and I don’t relish the idea of telling her tomorrow that she didn’t make it.  Perhaps the printed edition includes her.

I hate disappointing little girls, especially my own.



The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.

BVBL is not a charity and your support is not tax-deductible.

You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed.

310 Comments

  1. Anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:08 am:
    Flag comment

    How can you tell you are in a French Canadian town in Maine? By the maple syrup taps on the telephone poles

    au revoir

  2. Legal2 said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:37 am:
    Flag comment

    It’s great to get confirmation that the above TOLERANT people are anything but self-absorbed, hate-mongering, venemous individuals, who throw tantrems when something happens that they don’t like. They cannot reason and have no experience with issues, so they resort to ad hominum attacks. They need to go back to their sofas and sip their lattes, and continue to let real men with real ideas deal with the real world in a meaningful way.

    [Ed note: comments referred to above have been deleted]

  3. $12lettuce said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:28 am:
    Flag comment

    So you like $12 lettuce and $6 tomatoes? Ok, let’s deport undocumented workers…

    Dumb ass…

    Thank God the Democrats are going to control both houses of congress and the white house in a ‘09.

  4. Anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:31 am:
    Flag comment

    Your daughter made the print edition.

  5. Miguel Cervantes said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:34 am:
    Flag comment

    Can you please help me understand how a PERSON can be illegal. Also please explain what a border actually is, as well as who put them there. It would also be helpful to post an analysis as to WHY undocumented workers come to this country (ie: Civil War fomented in their countries with the help of U$ tax dollars (read: DID YOU SUPPORT REGAN BUSH in the 80’s)? If your family is starving and your village is on the verge of being massacared and your women on the verge of being raped… and you must escape.. will you be waiting out the time to get a visa? Do you have the 1000$ to pay for a visa? So in actuality you created your own “problem” by supporting this profit hungry system and those who govern it. People dont come here because they want to leave their families, culture and homes behind.. they come her because they have to. The working class has no borders. Asian latin black and white… workers of the world unite!

  6. OPDitch said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:38 am:
    Flag comment

    puke! Greg, please come home soon.

  7. Harry said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:41 am:
    Flag comment

    Gill is no more of terrorost than say Al Moudi or any of the other real terrorists that Gill hangs with, this is just guilt by association, just because Gill’s apparent best buddies are convicted and jailed terrorists doesn’t mean he is really a terrorist.

  8. Joe American said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:46 am:
    Flag comment

    http://legis.state.va.us/
    Write your state delegate, tell them yow you feel, remind them they are up for election

  9. Always On Watch said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:55 am:
    Flag comment

    Greg,
    Congratulations on getting noticed!

  10. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:13 am:
    Flag comment

    Miguel - So you don’t like illegal. Ok, how about CRIMINAL aliens? Better? More descriptive?

    The working class have borders, just like everyone else, you socialist pig.

    It sounds like you have made an apt description of a nation of cowards. Fleeing here to escape what they don’t have the courage to face at home. Not enough courage to sacrifice and attempt to fix what is home. No wonder our immigration policies are just too much for them to deal with. Run, run, run. And when it gets tough - go the criminal route.

    You people are not an asset to your home countries and you are not an asset to ours.

    We have these people too. Every time things don’t go their way here, they threaten to go to Canada and France. Thank God, some actually do.

    Maybe your criminal friends could hook up with our malcontents and ALL go to Canada.

    Better yet, maybe your criminal friends could link up, follow America’s example and actually sacrifice something in an effort to fix your own country. Bu that would be harder than sneaking across the border, working illegally and becoming a parasite on our social system.

    We didn’t need you criminals to build the greatest country on earth, and we don’t need them to keep it.

    Obey our laws or go somewhere else.

  11. Riley, Not O'Reilly said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:25 am:
    Flag comment

    Wow, I see the WashPo has driven a number of foul-mouthed, illiterates to the comments section here. Now we know who reads that paper.

  12. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:42 am:
    Flag comment

    Well, riley your post concerned me, I thought I might be on a bad tempered hate site which panders to sub human Americans. I looked through the comments and saw NO profanity. So I guess what you consider foul mouthed and illiterate is any opposition to your opinion.

    Why did you leave out racist and bigot? Maybe homophobes? Never miss an opportunity, riley.

  13. Golem said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:44 am:
    Flag comment

    Whoever this guy “Miguel Cervantes” is, he’s got to be a shill for Greg. If he’s for real, I can’t think of any better reason for savouring Greg’s success than “Cervantes’” out-of-date claptrap posted above. Nothing will provide more support for Greg’s anti-illegal immigration (not anti-immigration) fight than that ancient, discredited, mindless crap. Keep it up “Miguel,” keep it up.

  14. Sancho Panza said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:53 am:
    Flag comment

    For Miguel Cervantes - Listen carefully Miguel, I’ll try to speak very slowly so even you can understand. People become criminals when they break the law. People are not illegal, they put themselves into a class called illegal immigrants when they sneak into this country, against the law. We, and your leftist cronies, use the term illegals as shorthand. That’s the same as when we describe people who are incapable of thinking logically as Liberals.

    It is tiresome to hear the same worn out socialist tripe. I suspect it is provided to those who can’t think for themselves on a printed sheet in large type. The standard ploy of the leftist is to blame the United States for everything. Of course the corrupt politicians in Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, et al are not to blame, nor are the people who continually elect them. The culture of corruption, violence, and indolence is a creation of Ronald Reagan and George Bush. One note on your diatribe - those people don’t leave their cultures behind. If they did so and assimilated into the culture of the United States, as have millions of other immigrants over the centuries, perhaps they would more tolerated. instead, they refuse to learn the language and they bring their culture of violence and corruption with them. Borders are there for a purpose. It is to keep out those who are not wanted or who pose a threat to our way of life. As hard as it is for you to understand, why don’t you go to Mexico and walk across their border. They put it there. Then you can spout your discredited Marxist rhetoric and try to have the “workers of the world unite”. The Mexican reaction should be eye opening.

    Hasta la vista Miguel.

  15. Steve said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:03 am:
    Flag comment

    Responding to Miguel Cervantes. I agree with one thing you wrote - the force for migration is the economic imbalance between US and countries where workers come from. Now let’s talk how to and attitude. There are avenues to work legally. Green cards, workers visa’s and LEGAL declared identity and all that goes with it - taxes, drivers licenses etc. If charity begins at home, how I am supposed to feel compassionate towards your circumstance while quality of life here is being deminished. Many illegals are consciously eroding the fabric of the way we morally and ethically do life here. Coming here comes with a consequence. If you are not here legally you are living on borrowed time. Better live in Rome as Roman’s do. While here, follow our law to include moral law, learn to speak English, follow our zoning codes.. in essence you have to go the extra mile to avoid attack. Instead, we here see arrogant flags of other countries on cars, massive overcrowding in residential neighborhoods, demands for rights that citizen’s have, our own kids education suffer while funds go to teaching english, homes and residences in disrepair… hardly any signs of assimilation into the essence of the United States.

    And if you dont think you know what I am talking about I have 9 single men, 2 unmarried women, 2 kids and 2 grandparents living right next to me. No-one speaks English. 5 to 9 ratty cars on the street, house in shambles, yard unkempt, basement subdivided into closets. PWC zoning is 1 family and up to 2 unrelated guests. There is a law to follow. The house maintenance is violating homeowners code. Don’t expect the world from us when this is what I personally get in return.

  16. Ten said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:04 am:
    Flag comment

    I wish all you knuckle dragging KKK white supremacist ***holes would get the hell out of my country. Go Home Honkeys. This land was stolen from the 100 million indians who lived here prior. You are all illegals, unless you have got a tribal ID card. Dear illegal white people, GO HOME!!

    [Ed note: comment edited.]

  17. freedom said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:31 am:
    Flag comment

    All I can say is, “We shall see….”

  18. eve said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:33 am:
    Flag comment

    Your blog reminds me how far as a civilization we need to go. God save your soul and all those who read this - because I’m sure a good number of you consider yourselves to be God fearing Christians.

    ‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. - Leviticus 19:18

    Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs. – Proverbs 10:12

  19. Sinner said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:36 am:
    Flag comment

    Eve - I didnt think church got out till 11:30.. skipping this morning ?

  20. park'd said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:37 am:
    Flag comment

    Wow, I wake up on a Sunday morning only to find out that a ton of jackasses have flooded the posts with foul mouthed banter and propaganda. First off Miguel Cervantes: I don’t know any villages in Mexico where people are being massacred and women being raped and the only option left to them is to come to the USA. Do you? I do however see a ton of Mexicans come here to work, steal American jobs, dirty up our communities, and disobey our laws so that they can send 3/4 of that money back home.

    Ten and the others: The first and only resort of an uneducated jackass is to hand out the moniker ‘racist’ or ‘xenophobe’ when discussing this topic. Americans quickly grow tired of political correctness and jackasses that sling it like mud when they have no grasp of facts and reality. Call us racists since it is obvious you have no grasp of facts but it won’t change the fact that these people are here illegally, consuming our resources and burning through our tax base. They are criminals and are breaking the law. The time has come where the MAJORITY of Americans have had enough of these free loaders and action is imminent. Better get your affairs in order.

  21. eve said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:40 am:
    Flag comment

    sinner - my service starts at 230 - i guess yours ends at 1130, you must be skipping yours.

    thanks for your concern.

  22. park'd said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:42 am:
    Flag comment

    And to Eve: Give us a break please.

    - Ye shall not steal, and ye shall not deal falsely, and ye shall not lie one to another.

    - Thou shalt not oppress thy neighbour, neither rob him.

    Do you pary for their souls too Eve? *rolls eyes*

  23. park'd said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:50 am:
    Flag comment

    We are all guilty of violating Biblical passages on this matter and only God can say who has the moral high ground here. Please don’t ever assume you can come on here and twist Biblical passage to suit your own personal beliefs in this matter because there are just as many that we can twist to suit our own beliefs. The only thing that matters here is that these people are criminals who came here under false pretenses to basically rob and plunder this country. I’ll tell you what though Eve; if you are so concerned about their welfare and their future ability to maintain their plundering status, then you can pay my share of taxes to support them. That’s fair right?

  24. BL said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:51 am:
    Flag comment

    In yet another stunning demonstration of the fact that Mexico is inhabited and governed by third-world banditos incapable of reasoned thought, Mexican officials threatened to take the United States to the United Nations. In other words, this corrupt bunch of third-world idiots is under the misguided notion that America has no sovereign rights or borders, and that our great nation should be open to every Mexican peasant that decides unilaterally to squat in America.

    * Did the United States violate the sovereignty and borders of Mexico by encouraging 20 million illiterate American peasants to cross the border illegally?

    * Did American illegal aliens feed at the public trough for health care, education, food, housing and other vital services to which they were not entitled, and which cost Mexican taxpayers hundreds of billions of pesos each year?

    * Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexican hospitals, medical clinics, and emergency rooms and refuse to pay for medical services received?

    * Did the impact of serving American illegal aliens force scores of medical facilities into bankruptcy, resulting in the loss of vital medical services for Mexican citizens?

    * Did American illegal aliens who refused to pay for medical services manage to send $30 billion a year back to the United States?

    * Did American illegal aliens refuse to learn Spanish, and demand that Mexico provide services in English at considerable cost to Mexican citizens?

    * Did the children of American illegal aliens slow down and otherwise impede the education of Mexican children because of language and cultural issues?

    * Did American illegal aliens demand driver’s licenses despite being in Mexico illegally? Did they demand that driver instruction and testing materials be in English?

    * Did American illegal aliens demand the same reduced tuition rates offered to Mexican students there legally?

    * Did American illegal aliens vote in Mexican elections and alter election results?

    * Did American illegal aliens overwhelm Mexico’s penal system, making it impossible to deal with the citizen inmate population?

    * Did the largest state in Mexico contract with another Mexican state for the housing and care of 15,000 inmates because of the impact of American illegal aliens?

    * Did American illegal aliens engage in wholesale forgery of vital public documents and commit identity theft in order to secure employment, education, credit, and access to public services?

    * Did American illegal aliens in Mexico in 1986 receive amnesty in an attempt by the Mexican government to end illegal migrations once and for all?

    * Did the Mexican government refuse to enforce the provisions of the amnesty, thereby causing the American illegal alien problem to grow seven times greater in the span of 20 years?

    * Did millions of American illegal aliens take to the streets to protest pending legislation in the Mexican congress that would tighten border security and enforce the nation’s immigration laws?

    * Did American illegal aliens wave Old Glory and scream “Yes we can!” and “We are Mexico!” in English as they marched to protest the rule of law in Mexico?

    * Did American illegal aliens cry “Racism” every time they were criticized for being in Mexico illegally or challenged to learn Spanish and assimilate into Mexican society?

    None of the above is correct, although each and every one would provide more than adequate justification for diplomatic, and perhaps military action by the offended nation against the offender nation.

  25. Lynne said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:53 am:
    Flag comment

    It’s truly sad that so many uneducated/uninformed people read this blog.

    Too bad that they don’t spend their time informing themselves on the issues and legalities of life in the US.

    The HATE speech is so unnecessary and unwarranted. All it does is show their lack of values. It does not add to any conversation.

    Congratulations on positive recognition by The Washington Post, Greg! And thanks for all your hard work in helping to recapture our nation from assisted lawlessness.

  26. eve said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:56 am:
    Flag comment

    park’d - i pray for their souls as well, i don’t necessarily agree with how they do what they do and i’m not advocating illegal measures. but, they are not fostering hate. most do what they do in search of a better life and to fulfill simple human needs.

    as a community and as a society, we should find the right answer and not stir up hate, because it is not the people but the system that is flawed. what we should concern ourselves with is helping our border countries get on their feet so they can provide for their people and mitigate the need for people to illegally hop the border in search of a better life.

    but I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

  27. anon said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:07 am:
    Flag comment

    Goodness! First of all, why didn’t you interview with the Washington Times? If you hate the Post why give them an interview? Once might think you wanted the negative attention more that is spewing than you want to fix problems? Why do people who hate the Post buy the Post??? I have more friends who complain chronically about the Post and then have it delivered to their home.

    Second, I agree with just about everything that the efforts of the website are attempting to fix. If you don’t have the problem next door, it’s really easy to comment. If you didn’t know that 42% of the children in PWC ESL are SECOND generation, it’s really easy to comment

    Third, BVBL, I am a Democrat. I would appreciate it if you would just target people and issues instead of Fasil and the Democrats, we’re not all non-church going rabid dopes. Just like Republicans are not all smug judgemental racists who go to church.

    Fourth, stick with the issues, stick to the folks in the way regardless of affiliation (Head of Commerce Committee in State Legislature, a nice white Republican killed every bill related to Immigration this year).

    Fifth, try to remember, it’s not what you do it’s how you do it. Less judgemental, less emotional (that is hard, I know), less frantic and more factual and more focused.

    You are right, you have influence use it fairly and with care.

  28. eve said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:11 am:
    Flag comment

    park’d - i agree, we can sling bible verses all day long, i guess i’ll interpret my bible the way i see fit and you can interpret yours.

    but - can you explain to me how they are taking all of your tax dollars? are you sidewalks cracked and unwalkable? your streets unpaved? public libraries shut down? your children have no more public education to benefit from?

    last i checked - the iraq war, which a majority of americans disagree with has cost taxpayers over a trillion dollars… quite frankly, i’m more concerned about THAT when it comes to my tax money - especially when its costing us so dearly in lives. so, i’ll take you up on your offer to fund your share of illegals that are taking your tax dollars if you fund my share of the iraq war.

  29. park'd said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:14 am:
    Flag comment

    Eve, I praise you for your strong beliefs and wish you could have been a little better in your previous posts at explaining yourself on this issue like you did above. I also agree with your statements above but I have taken issue with your interpretation. Instead of ravaging this country, I feel that they should stand as a people and demand change in their own. Mexico is not a dustbowl as some might think. It is a very beautiful and lush country in many places that is capable of providing adequately for its own people. The problem is that their people are cowards who do not have the will to form a new government and overturn the corrupt institution that they are now saddled with. It is just easier for them to flock here in droves because they know people like you will support them. I agree, like you, that we should be doing more to assist them with making governmental changes in Mexico, but due to political ramifications this will never happen.

    I too am in search of a better life in my own country! My community has been overrun by illegals. My taxes are sky high, my neighborhood trashed, my culture converted. What does the Bible say again about a person that comes in under false pretenses and robs his neighbors? There is only so long that the providing neighbor will turn the other cheek. I’d say that we as Americans have been ‘turning the right cheek’ now for about as long as humanly possible. As I said before: they had better get their affairs in order because the gravy days are JUST about over.

  30. eve said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:21 am:
    Flag comment

    park’d - its amazing when people can start to have an meaningful dialogue instead of alternating from attack and defense that you realize two people on opposite ends of the spectrum have more in common than originally perceived. i totally agree with you mexico and unfortunately there is no correct answer.

    i understand your concerns and i have the same ones as well, but i suppose i view it from a different perspective than you do. hopefully one day this will no longer be a problem and you and i can find something else to disagree (or agree) on.

  31. park'd said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:24 am:
    Flag comment

    I, like you, don’t feel nor did I ever feel that we should be in Iraq. I saw it for what it was then and still see it as a corrupt President who took us there to make billions of dollars for his corrupt Vice President and numerous large corporations all funded by the taxpayers. Some may chastise me for this belief, but you know what; I could care less because I know it in my heart to be true. Therefor, I will not take on your burden of the Iraq war because I never supported it to begin with. You however DO support illegal immigration so I will still let you pay my share of the tax burden that this issue creates.

    As far as showing you how illegal aliens steal from Americans and drive up our tax costs, you need look no further than four posts up to BL’s post. His description of this burden on US taxpayers is but an overview of the most serious crimes and expenses that illegal aliens perpetrate on US tax payers, but you get the point I assume.

  32. Joe Budzinski said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:32 am:
    Flag comment

    Congrats, Greg. The effort you’ve put into this project has paid off both in recognition and public influence. Being edgy makes you a target, as this little cadre of unhappy campers today demonstrates, but it is also part of what made the blog take off - in addition to the excellent research and reporting.

  33. onevoice said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:37 am:
    Flag comment

    Park’d I absolutely agree with you regarding the President’s motivation for being in Iraq. I am glad to see someone else feel as strongly about the President’s agenda as I do.

    Most of us are impacted directly by Iraq in some form or another, however, lot’s of people are not directly impacted by illegal immigrants. Where I live, it’s not an issue - YET.

    Sadly, most humans have to be personally impacted by a situation before they understand it. Until I drove through Westgate last week and saw it for myself, I was a little standoffish about the whole issue. I think that’s why the caustic approach keeps people from understanding the issue. They understand the attack part clearly. So they attack back and the issue is lost.

  34. nedlawme said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:59 am:
    Flag comment

    I am a former Virginian, Washington-born but NoVA raised. I read the article in the Post this morning, as I am on vacation from Ft. Campbell, TN (home of the 101st). I respect Mr. Letiecq’s “grass roots” political and social movements to change the face of local politics. His efforts are what the American Democratic system is all about!
    Mr. Letiecq in the article, you stated, “People who make bad choices shouldn’t be our representatives.” I immediately thought of the “respresentatives” who have decided to send my husband, a Captain in the Army, to Iraq for a third year-long deployment since 2003. I can’t help but wonder, why a site with such local popularity and strength to help shape local politics can’t be used to voice legitimate concerns regarding the stress caused by OIF.
    At Ft. Campbell, I have watched the divorce rate sky rocket. I have watched the destruction of wholesome American families. I have seen the devastation that the death of a husband causes my friends and fellow Army wives. And, yet all I (because I won’t arrogantly speak for the other wives) hear when I’m outside of an Army-town is how the American people, “Support the Troops.” Well, my Army friends want to come home. My husband doesn’t want to be away from his children for another 15months. The soldiers won’t express this publically because they are dutiful, they are honorable, they know that this is their job. But, when is enough enough?
    Your Blog is visited by thousands of vocal Americans and yet, no one speaks up for our troops. No one speaks up for their spouses. No one speaks up for their children. Yet, we “Support the Troops.” I, as a wife, who sees the hurt laden in the eyes of my husband as he proudly places his ACU jacket on to head out for a third 15-month deployment, ask SOMEONE speak for him. Support the Troops by rallying for them to start coming home to be the fathers and husband, mothers and wives that many of them have been unable to be as a result of this War.

  35. Big Dog said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    Greg,
    Time out for a moment - everytime I’ve seen you,
    you have rushed out after a meeting to light up a cancer
    stick - stop - stop now. Do it for Lillian and Marian -
    they need a healthy Dad for at least the next twenty years.
    Smoking isn’t liberal or conservative - it is early death.
    Take a moment and focus on what you value
    most - the feel good of that next puff or your wife and
    children.
    ” We shouldn’t pull our punches.”

    Time back in.

  36. querty said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    What would Jesus do about illegal immigration?

  37. Publicus said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    Congratulations, BVBL.

    Blogs are what they are — wide open expresssion. Sometimes that can be bad thing, as in the case of blogs that promulgate false information.

    However, it has been my experience with your blog that the infomration you post is accurate and your willingness to cover tough topics courageous.

    Keep speaking truth to power.

    Cheers.

    Publicus

  38. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    querty - and I quote: Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceasar’s, render unto God that which is God’s

    In other word’s obey the law.

    Any other questions?

  39. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:22 pm:
    Flag comment

    Well, as one of the “little cadre of unhappy campers” brought by the WaPo story, let me try to contribute to some of the impressively rational debate going on in the comments.

    First, kudos for building a political portal to local politics. Our usually-impoverished political discourse needs more of these, both on the Left and the Right.

    However, I would take issue with two interconnected themes I’ve seen from reading through the posts and comments (admittedly rather quickly.) The first is that there’s a lot of uncomfortably “edgy” references to, as Park’d puts it, “American culture” is being “converted” by illegal immigration. This is really disturbing because I’m fairly sure that it’s coded racism (the earlier comment–not by Park’d–about “beaners” notwithstanding.) Do I need, for the millionth time, to point up how there is no such thing as “American culture,” and what passes for it is actually a bricolage of different (originally mainly European, but increasingly cosmopolitan) cultures? The melting pot, and all that, after all.

    (One might also ask posters worried about “culture” whether they would make the same comments about Italians, or Greeks, or Irish, or Polish, immigrants. The same comments WERE made, after all, throughout the 19th and well into the 20th century. And for people worried about Mexican flags at immigration rallies, remember the Godfather scenes in Little Italy? [Oh yes, and the HIGHLY “ethnic” movie is incidentally usually considered one of the most important AMERICAN epics ever.] Or, have they been to Chicago on polish independence day?)

    The second theme that I’d like to discuss is the bedrock that the anti-immigration school seems to rest on: the argument “We just want to enforce the law.” (Further evidence: the number of times that the pejorative “illegal/illegals” gets thrown around here.) The argument seems disingenuous, since after all nobody really thinks that the law is an impartial arbiter of justice, right? First of all, somebody made the good point that immigration statutes favor the rich over the poor, seeing as how visa fees are out of the financial reach of most Mexican “peasants.” (Wow, incidentally. Throwing around “peasant” as a pejorative; and inaccurately to boot! How would you feel if they called you “peon”; and inaccurately to boot!) Silly little arguments about “sovereignty” and such simply mask a kind of fortress mentality defined by keeping “them” out. Depressing, and I would think that a little honest appraisal ought to make the authors embarrassed. Second of all, it seems weirdly paradoxical to make the argument, on the one hand, that Mexican immigrants are essentially incompetent, “illiterate” folk, and that, on the other hand, they ought to overthrow the Mexican government and install a streamlined, neoliberal utopia south of the border. Actually seems like a fairly incoherent, unpragmatic hope to me. (And what’s up with calling Mexico “lush”? You make it sound like this problem can be solved by forty-acres-and-a-mule.)

    Look, I’m the first one to say that the immigration system in this country is broken. A very good point made here is the strain put on local taxes and the health care system. But wouldn’t an equally good solution–instead of sending “them” back where “they” came from–be to legalize people who are already here, so they pay taxes and contribute fairly to the commonweal? After all, to recapitulate a liberal saw that will doubtless be torn apart, most illegal immigrants are here to do jobs that we clean, upstanding white folk don’t want to. (That last sentence was sarcastic, so please don’t quote “clean, upstanding white folk” out of context. I am white, but not upstanding, and I haven’t showered in days.)

    I guess I’ll end this little diatribe with a call for compassion. These political debates tend to get really charged and encourage people to draw hard-and-fast distinctions between “us” and “them.” It definitely makes political mobilization easier! (And the left does the same thing; it’s important that you guys realize that the Mexican flags and sloganeering at pro-immigrant rallies are, in a sense, just the political mirror of your discourse….) Sure, it’s easy to paint illegal Mexican immigrants as illiterate drains on the local tax base who “refuse to learn English!”–and, judging by the hysteria about the issue on the site, people who raise chickens (the horror!) But isn’t the more moral, if much harder, thing to try to find the compassion to see the myriad ways that the people living next door, or down the street, are actually really similar to you? And if not you, I’m guessing, then your ancestors? (And yes, note how I’ve had to make reference, in my closing, positive remarks, to an abstract universal imperative just as groundless as legality. Oh well.)

    The problem, I think, is that without such a dose of compassion the tone of your argument can be summarized as follows: “I got mine.”

  40. Charles said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:32 pm:
    Flag comment

    And to think I was actually considering to buy that big old house on Bennett off Grant St in Manassas, I must have been out of my mind! Nice house too. Oh well… No way now. YOUR TOWN IS NUTS. This MANASSAS area sounds like an absolute mess of an area.

    BTW, while I agree that illegal immigration is a HUGE issue and must be addressed and enforced (we do have laws but unfortunately no one uses them anymore), I don’t think your site’s arguments and tactics help bring an educated discussion to the topic. In reality, all I see after visiting your site is fanaticism and hysteria which in itself actually worsens the conditions. Instead of venomous tactics and yellow journalism, why not put your local efforts into bridging the Hispanic Community and “everyone else” into a series of
    town meetings, etc.? HAS ANYONE OUT THERE CREATED ANY WORK SESSIONS BRINGING GROUPS TOGETHER? What I find amusing though is if , for example, all the Hispanics mowed their lawns, parked their cars nicely, lowered the volume on their music and were more discreet about how many lived in a dwelling, most of you wouldn’t be bitching and clearly would look the other way. What is My point? You care more about their ACTIONS impacting you (NIMBY) than the SPIRIT of the law and immigration. That is, by the way, WHY this country has created this awful problem. TOO MUCH NIMBY attitude and not enough educated, solution-oriented WORK to fix it.

    Perhaps, we need to use diplomacy with Mexico and solutions that BUILD rather than destroy. The proposed solution by Congress however was poor as it reduced our Citizenship to a worth of $6000 or so…so typical of our gutless leaders in both parties today..just throw some money at the problem! UGH!

    What WE NEED is for firm, tough leaders to say “OK..you are here illegally. You must become legal and you WILL have a tract and timeframe to become so OR you will be sent back, stripped of all your wealth and possessions…this isn’t a cake walk”. Education, enforcement of employers, local community mentors and community leaders from both sides of the cultural community must take ownership….and DO IT VOLUNTARILY as part of a nationwide effort to BUILD AMERICA. Something so many today can’t even understand as they are part of the ME ME ME GENERATION.

    Forget the fines that Congress proposed. Make them do the classes, understand our laws, take the Oath of Allegiance, learn English and do community service that benefits ALL to EARN YOUR CITIZENSHIP. FOR EXAMPLE: I haven’t seen ONE LEADER propose (instead of a fine) a MANDATED 4 YEAR LENGTH OF COMMUNITY OR MILITARY / NATIONAL GUARD service as a possible ticket into this county. So simple too…a great place to LEARN, become disciplined, understand customs/law and become ASSIMIALATED into AMERCAN CULTURE. THOSE EFFORTS could be used to fix a lot of broken things around our towns/cities. And, we need new people to keep our tax structure afloat and create diverse new opportunities in a global competitive economy.

    Instead of bitching and creating a RAVENOUS orgy of hate, use your site to do something productive: offer a solution.

    Oh, enjoy your few minutes of fame. Your blog and all the others that go with it (YUCK>>>ANN COULTER) will all go the way of other propaganda…the trash. I sent your article to my Canadian friends in Quebec for their amusement. Ta ta.

    Signed.

    Proud Gay American (Yep, you read that right)

  41. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    illegal is not pejorative. It identifies behavior with an individual or class. No more than drug dealer, car thief or fraudulent welfare recipient is pejorative.

    The Italians, Poles, Irish, Norweigans, Germans - fill in the blank - did not sue to force their language or culture upon America. They came here to BECOME Americans. They were also successful.

    The racist mexicans and central Americans - along with their socialist enablers - will not be successful in changing America.

    We who “got ours,” did it legally.

    Big difference - hope you can comprehend the difference.

  42. Downeaster said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:40 pm:
    Flag comment

    Tons of Frenchies came to Maine and Massachusettes illegally to work in the mills because they were starving in Quebec. There are French Churches that only have services in French, resturants, bars. They did learn to speak English so they wouldn’t get caught. But they did drive everyone nuts.

    Hmmmmmmm

  43. BT said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Congrat BVBL! Blogs like this one are the future particularly if the left succeeds at silencing talk radio via the Fairness Doctrine. With respect to illegal immigration, it’s not an issue I care much about other then we do need to control our borders. If that makes me a racist, so be it. I have hired numerous Hispanics to work around the house and to a man they have been hard working and have done excellent work. Nevertheless, the borders must be secure in light of the Islamic pukes seeking our destruction. Now I am against allowing Muslims into the country. In Western Europe they refuse to assimilate while striving to return our European cousins to the twelvth century. Keep them out!

  44. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Charles

    ‘I don’t think your site’s arguments and tactics help bring an educated discussion to the topic’

    - so, you are the only intelligent poster here, reading the rantings of the retards and gracing us with your wisdom?

    We don’t need focus groups, working groups or group hugs. Nor do we need diplomacy.

    We need law enforcement. We need politicians who demand law enforcement.

    After all - on what laws do Americans receive passes. Taxes? Zoning? Driver’s licenses?

    We need equal protection under the law.

    Notice that the GA just passed a draconian fine system for Virginia drivers. The illegals - among others - get passes. But Virginians get slammed.

  45. Mary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dear Proud Gay American:

    If you give the illegals here amnesty and the right to vote, as well as the right to bring in their relatives and give THEM the right to vote as well. they will simply vote for more open borders and more handing over our sovereignty to Mexico. We already have trouble with many legal Mexicans already here now trying to do everything they can to help their “brothers” thwart our laws and destroy our sovereignty — how is giving millions more the right of residence and the right to vote going to stop that process?

    Because of the huge numbers of potential “new citizens” involved, amnesty and sovereignty are two mutually exclusive concepts.

    Amnesty would simply deliver large parts of our country’s future to the corrupt, drug-gang controlled Third World “government” that runs Mexico (into the ground.)

  46. Loudoun Insider said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    As I’ve said many times before, BVBL kicks ass!

  47. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    BT what is the difference between Al Qaeda and La Raza?

    La Raza hasn’t committed terrorism here yet. Yet.

  48. Local blogger gets press at the WashPo « HoodaThunk? said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    […] mentioned on BVBL this morning, Greg has never actually called Faisal Gill a terrorist. You can read Greg’s clarification directly, and I suggest you go do […]

  49. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    What a terrible thing to say! Shame on you.

  50. dolphin_Moon said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mexico has almost no middle class, or middle class as we relate to it. It is a country of haves and have nots.

    The majority of hispanics in this immediate area are from El Salvador. Have we not given out many work visas because of earthquakes? By ‘we,’ I mean the federal government.

    Most of us have no idea who is legal and who is illegal. ‘Illegal’ has become the buzz word for ‘being overrun’ by people of hispanic origin.

    If I lived next door to chickens in the yard and multiple families with 10 cars parked outside like I see when I drive around the area, I would be howling much more loudly than I am now. My own street is now lined with work related vehicles of various types, but no chickens next door. I guess I lucked out. My street lined statement is also middle class snobbery and without apology. Mia culpa.

    Basically, the federal government has failed the communities of the United States. We have uncontrolled borders and uncontrolled immigration. The impact is felt in our communities especially in schools, medical services, and the court system. Our neighborhoods have changed drastically, and generally not to our liking.

    Of course people are going to be upset. However, if there are 12 million illegal immigrants in this country, how on earth are we going to ‘fix’ the problem? If 1000 were exported each day, with no recitivism, it would take 33 years to remove them all.

    I suppose I am looking for more solutions to deal with our problems here in the Manassas area and a lot less name calling, partisan politics and besmirching others.

    Legal2, I am sure hoping you meant ‘man’ in the general sense. Men are not the only ones with ideas. I would like to think I have come further than that in 2007.

    Dolph

  51. Kush said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    Here goes a selfish man who would do anything for some cheap publicity. Watch, lest you teach your kids to hate on the weaker people in society, on those who cannot defend themselves. Pick someone your own size, not fellow neigbhours trying to make do the best of what is on their plate.

  52. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 12:57 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick - La Raza has the take over of America as one of its clearly stated goals.

    When the media propaganda program fails and their friends in office are fired - do you think they are going to just go back to Mexico?

    This is a radical racist organization. I don’t think anything is beyond them.

    If I said what I said about a neo nazi group - would you chastise me?

  53. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:02 pm:
    Flag comment

    This is a quote from Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (while serving as the President of UCLA chapter of Mecha) “For those of the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing.” You decide what this means.

  54. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:03 pm:
    Flag comment

    i’f there are 12 million illegal immigrants in this country, how on earth are we going to ‘fix’ the problem?’

    We can start by imprisoning the employers - no matter how connected.

    Imprisonment and loss of business license for life for second offense. No possibility of changing the business name. Permanent banning.

    That is a start.

  55. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:05 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mecha was founded for the sole purpose of “radicalizing young Latino students for the hatred of America and to promote Chicano pride and separatism.”

    Solution: cut the social benefits (welfare, WIC, free medical, free education, subsidized housing, foodstamps, etc.).

  56. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    Analysis of the The Aztec Al-Qaeda video. Shows ties between NCLR, Mayor of Los Angeles Antonio Villaraigosa, and Mecha.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1XAQc8hS8&mode=related&search

  57. guadalupe-hidalgo, 1848 said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    Get used to it losers. Your children and their children will be speaking spanish to survive. We need new zoning laws to allow sheet metal construction for houses. In the future only dumb-asses will not be able to speak spanish.

  58. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    Watch, lest you teach your kids to hate on the weaker people in society, on those who cannot defend themselves. Pick someone your own size, not fellow neigbhours trying to make do the best of what is on their plate.

    We need to teach our children respect for law and order. By example.

    Show them that no one is above the law. Teach them that criminals, whether drug dealers or real estate developers - will be jailed for breaking the law.

    hating the weaker people… - what utter simplistic throw up.

  59. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    guadalupe - as opposed to now, where ONLY dumb-asses speak spanish?

    BTW, why do the noble original inhabitants of this country speak spanish? Are they too stupid to know that is the language of their original oppressors?

  60. dan said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    Elements of our society have learned nothing from Jesus yet call themselves Christian. Christian-hardly. Jesus took up the cause of the downtrodden, the poor, and the dispised by the society of the times.

    These people do just the opposite and call themselves “Christian.” True followers of the Saviour know the difference. These people hate the rest of us as evidenced by their foul name calling. They are destroying our Christian religion just like they always have with hate and venom. Fanatics and hate mongers alway have the loudest voices. We need to pray for them even though they prey ON us. God, forgive them for they know not what they say and do.

  61. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    First, your response was much more coherent than the facile joke you made. So let’s see:

    “La Raza has the take over of America as one of its clearly stated goals.”

    Well, a google search brings up the following (and fairly coherent-looking) rebuttal of your point: http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/

    I would love to see your counter-evidence.

    “When the media propaganda program fails and their friends in office are fired - do you think they are going to just go back to Mexico?”

    It’s very hard to respond to this kind of rhetorical question. Ummm, well, I don’t think “their friends in office” will be “fired” (someone else will be elected?) I will say that I doubt that everyone working for La Raza is an illegal immigrant. In fact, I doubt that many of them are are at all. I bet most are US Citizens. (In fact, the two leaders of La Raza–Janet Murguia and Monica Lozano–are the former vice chancellor of the University of Kansas and a current board member of the Disney corporation, respectively. [http://www.nclr.org/section/about/mission])

    “This is a radical racist organization. I don’t think anything is beyond them.”

    Really? I mean, in contrast to al Qaeda, they have a really nice website and seem fairly well-integrated into the American political scene–though perhaps advocating policies they don’t like. In fact, like other mainstream organizations like, say, the NAACP they seem committed to nonviolent policy change within a democratic, pluralistic framework. I haven’t really been able to find references to them advocating the violent overthrow of the US government. Though I haven’t looked hard, so please post some links; oh yes, and spurious associations to radical organizations don’t count, unless you want me to post links to the CCC and posse comitatus.

    “If I said what I said about a neo nazi group - would you chastise me?”

    Probably not, but I think the analogy fails, as outlined above. Neo Nazi groups, and many radical white supremacists, do want to violently overthrow the US government. (Though, of course, it’s hard to see Neo Nazi groups as using terrorism in the same way as Al Qaeda, so I think even that analogy’s a stretch; so I guess if you made that joke I’d just sigh, think for a second, and move on.) I guess I find your reasoning to be poor at best, and disingenuous at worst. Frankly, I think you made a bad joke, and got caught.

  62. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dan - Jesus, even though he was the Son of God, subjugated himself to the laws of the land.

    He took up the cause of sinners, with no illusions. They were sinners. He tried his best to get them to renounce their ways. Those that did- received redemption - those that didn’t, we will eventually find out.

    Render unto Ceaser, that which is Ceaser’s, render unto God that which is God’s.

    Obey the law. If you don’t like it - try to change it.

    But obey it.

    It is the linchpin of civilization. the lack of which the illegals are supposedly fleeing.

  63. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Hey great article in the Post. I respect your point of view. You can see how the nasty liberals, who are supposed to be “tolerant” spew venom against you here. The Left Wing Wackos will try to dilute the argument with anything but the point being discussed. Keep going, you have a new supporter.

  64. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    We are to preach the Gospel at the same time follow the rule of law. Therefore, we should preach the Good News to illegal aliens and at the same time let them know that they should do the right thing by self-deporting themselves back to their homelands (and if they so desire) to come back via the legal mechanism. Simple as that.

  65. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:32 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mr. Patriot,

    Yeah, this MECHA group looks pretty icky. But they also look like a radical 1960s holdover combined with sophomoric college radicalism. You seem to be basing your whole argument (including the quotes you muster) from the YouTube clip you cited. Care to show some contemporary quotations (from, for example, our esteemed LA Mayor?)

    This is not to say that the current MECHA group says/advocates things that I agree with; I think that we’re a great big ole’ melting pot, so their current rejection of “assimilation” sticks in my craw. (http://www.nationalmecha.org/about.html) But to generalize from what a left-wingnut group says to the immigration movement generally? That’s painting with an awfully broad brush. (Unless, again, you want me, say, connecting Trent Lott, with the CCC, which of course used to be the “Which Citizen’s Council,” or pointing out that Strom Thurmond used to have some…interesting…political positions.)

  66. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    The biggest racists are the Mexicans who have it written in their Constitution. Please read J. Micheal Waller’s article on the Mexican Constitution and comment on that you Left Wing moonbats! Greg, keep going buddy. Don’t let the Left Wing Intolerant nut jobs silence a word!

    Mexico’s glass house
    How the Mexican constitution treats foreign residents, workers and naturalized citizens
    By J. Michael Waller
    Posted: Thursday, April 6, 2006

    PAPERS & STUDIES
    Center for Security Policy
    Publication Date: April 6, 2006

    Introduction

    Every country has the right - and duty - to restrict the quality and quantity of foreign immigrants entering or living within its borders. If American policymakers are looking for legal models on which to base new laws restricting immigration and expelling foreign lawbreakers, they have a handy guide: the Mexican constitution.[1]

    Adopted in 1917, the constitution of the United Mexican States borrows heavily from American constitutional and legal principles. It combines those principles with a strong sense nationalism, cultural self-identity, paternalism, and state power. Mexico’s constitution contains many provisions to protect the country from foreigners, including foreigners legally resident in the country and even foreign-born people who have become naturalized Mexican citizens.

    The Mexican constitution segregates immigrants and naturalized citizens from native-born citizens by denying immigrants basic human rights that Mexican immigrants enjoy in the United States. By making increasing demands that the U.S. not enforce its immigration laws and, indeed, that it liberalize them, Mexico is throwing stones within its own glass house.

    This paper, the first of a short series on Mexican immigration double standards, examines the Mexican constitution’s protections against immigrants, and concludes with some questions about U.S. policy.

    Summary

    In brief, the Mexican Constitution states that:

    * Immigrants and foreign visitors are banned from public political discourse.
    * Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights.
    * Immigrants are denied equal employment rights.
    * Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.
    * Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.
    * Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.
    * Private citizens may make citizens arrests of lawbreakers (i.e., illegal immigrants) and hand them to the authorities.
    * Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason and without due process.

    The Mexican constitution: Unfriendly to immigrants

    Mexico’s constitution expressly forbids non-citizens to participate in the country’s political life. Non-citizens are forbidden to participate in demonstrations or express opinions in public about domestic politics. Article 9 states, “only citizens of the Republic may do so to take part in the political affairs of the country.” Article 33 is unambiguous: “Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.”

    The Mexican constitution denies fundamental property rights to foreigners. If foreigners wish to have certain property rights, they must renounce the protection of their own governments or risk confiscation. Foreigners are forbidden to own land in Mexico within 100 kilometers of land borders or within 50 kilometers of the coast. Article 27 states,

    “Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners, provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in matters relating thereunto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country.” (Emphasis added)

    The Mexican constitution denies equal employment rights to immigrants, even legal ones, in the public sector. Article 32: “Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces.”

    The Mexican constitution guarantees that immigrants will never be treated as real Mexican citizens, even if they are legally naturalized. Article 32 bans foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico from serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports:

    “In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia. It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of practique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic.”

    An immigrant who becomes a naturalized Mexican citizen can be stripped of his Mexican citizenship if he lives again in the country of his origin for more than five years, under Article 37. Mexican-born citizens risk no such loss.

    Foreign-born, naturalized Mexican citizens may not become federal lawmakers (Article 55), cabinet secretaries (Article 91) or supreme court justices (Article 95). The president of Mexico, like the president of the United States, constitutionally must be a citizen by birth, but Article 82 of the Mexican constitution mandates that the president’s parents also be Mexican-born citizens, thus according secondary status to Mexican-born citizens born of immigrants.

    The Mexican constitution forbids immigrants and naturalized citizens to become members of the clergy. Article 130 says, “To practice the ministry of any denomination in the United Mexican States it is necessary to be a Mexican by birth.”

    The Mexican constitution singles out “undesirable aliens.” Article 11 guarantees federal protection against “undesirable aliens resident in the country.”

    The Mexican constitution provides the right of private individuals to make citizen’s arrests. Article 16 states, “in cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities.” Therefore, the Mexican constitution appears to grant Mexican citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution.

    The Mexican constitution states that foreigners may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, “the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.”
    Notional policy options Mexico and the United States have much to learn from one another’s laws and practices on immigration and naturalization. A study of the immigration and citizenship portions of the Mexican constitution leads to a search for new policy options to find a fair and equitable solution to the immigration problem in the United States. Two contrary options would require reciprocity, while doing the utmost to harmonize U.S.-Mexican relations:

    1. Mexico should amend its constitution to guarantee immigrants to Mexico the same rights it demands the United States give to immigrants from Mexico; or

    2. The United States should impose the same restrictions on Mexican immigrants that Mexico imposes on American immigrants.

    These options are only notional, of course. They are intended only to help push the immigration debate in a more sensible direction. They simply illustrate the hypocrisy of the Mexican government’s current immigration demands on the United States - as well as the emptiness of most Democrat and Republican proposals for immigration reform.

    Mexico, like the United States, certainly has every right to control who enters its borders, and to expel foreigners who break its laws. The Mexican constitution is designed to give the strongest protections possible to the country’s national security. Mexico’s internal immigration policy is Mexico’s business.

    However, since Mexican political leaders from the ruling party and the opposition have been demanding that the United States ignore, alter or abolish its own immigration laws, they have opened their own internal affairs to American scrutiny. The time has come to examine Mexico’s own glass house.

  67. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, why don’t you take a look….L.A. is a sanctuary city. Did you not know this? The plan is being carried out. Get a grip on reality. Use your eyes and ears. Additionally, why don’t you take a look at all the other cities around our country. They are having the same problems. Do you not understand that the “plan” takes multiple generations to accomplish? You need to do some research!

  68. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, one other thing…recent times….Rep. Guiterrez was asked by Lou Dobbs a few weeks back why policy was not being made for “the good of all Americans”. Instead, it is being made in favor of socio-ethnic based groups like NCLR/Hispanic Caucus, etc….Guess what? Rep. Guiterrez dodged the question! I wonder why that is….Hmmmmm.

  69. Cunning Linguist said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:40 pm:
    Flag comment

    I just want to settle one issue that seems to come up here often. That is the issue of immigrants acquiring English when they come here. It is absolutely NOT true that foreigners don’t learn English when they come to this country. If any of you read scholarly work on the subject, this would be clear.
    For a couple examples, check out Veltman (1988:44):
    With respect to immigrant children, 70% of those 5 to 9 years of age, after a stay of about 9 months, speak English on a regular basis. After 4 years, nearly all speak English regularly, and about 30 percent prefer English to Spanish. After 9 years, 60 percent have shifted to English; after 14 years – as young adults – 70% have abandoned the use of Spanish as a daily language.

    Also check out Portes and Schauffler’s work in Miami (Dade Co.) and Broward (Ft. Lauderdale). They show that (1996:437):
    For the sample as a whole, 73 percent report that they are able to speak, understand, read, and write English ‘very well’ and an additional 26 percent ‘well.’ This leaves the sum total of those knowing little or no English at just 1 percent.

    The *appearance* that immigrants don’t learn English is due to the continuous influx of newcomers who are not native speakers, but on the whole those who stay in the country for any amount of time learn the language. By the second generation, their kids are almost always English monolinguals. Your ancestors didn’t learn English very quickly when they came here - often maintaining their home language into the 3rd, 4th, 5th, or even 6th generations. And yes, these people all still did just fine.

    In fact, the country’s fastest growing minority language is not Spanish, but rather Pennsylvania Dutch spoken by Old Order Amish, who are by the way ambilinguals of English and PA Dutch (for those of you who don’t know what an ambilingual is, it is a person equally competent in two languages).

    Please read the scholarly work on the issues before fueling the hatred against immigrants due to their linguistic abilities. Your family was once a family of immigrants too - don’t forget that!

  70. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot - Guiterrez does not act in a vacuum. Why doesn’t the rest of the congress follow this up?

    It would appear we will have the Black Congressional Caucus, the hispanic congressional caucus and a group of white congressmen who will split their time between being on their knees and sobbing in a corner. That is when they are not committing crimes….

    We need to elect some Americans for a change.

  71. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Cunning, then why is it that we need bi-lingual programs (Spanish in particular). Why is it that legal hispanics state that they know people who have resided here for many years and still do not (nor desire) to learn English. Why is it that we need signs, ads, store announcement in Spanish. Get real. Use your eyes and ears.

  72. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    “Jesus, even though he was the Son of God, subjugated himself to the laws of the land.”

    Ummm, no he didn’t; depending on your interpretation, he advocated civil disobedience! And, depending on your interpretation, he preached god’s love for everyone, including unrepentant sinners. But of course biblical interpretation is basically an exercise in finding precedent for preconceived notions–both of ours.

    “Obey the law. If you don’t like it - try to change it.

    But obey it.

    It is the linchpin of civilization…”

    Speaking of civil disobedience, what is your opinion on that? There are, after all, multiple ways of trying to change the law. (Of course, I don’t mean to imply that illegal immigrants are practicing high-minded virtue. I think they’re acting out of severe economic desperation and hope for a better life.) I guess this boils down to whether or not you think that there’s a higher principle than the law of the land, which, time and time again, has been shown to be flawed. Furthermore, I detected a note (as discussed in a previous post on La Raza) of considering attempts to change the law through the democratic process–or what passes for such round here–as “propoganda.” This seems like trying to have it both ways.

  73. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    Are we living in Bizarro world? For then non readers of Superman comics; Bizarro was has been a consistent enemy of Superman since his first appearance. The word Bizarro is used to as to describe anything that utilizes twisted logic or that is the opposite of something else. A rational that the nuts here are obviously employing.

    Don’t let these mental midgets change the argument into race, immigration, or any other off topic area other than illegal immigration. Maybe when Mexico gives the same rights to immigrants we can have a discussion. Wait, it will never happen, because their Constitution allows them to do what is needed to protect their culture, country, economy, and homeland:

    In brief, the Mexican Constitution states that:

    * Immigrants and foreign visitors are banned from public political discourse.
    * Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights.
    * Immigrants are denied equal employment rights.
    * Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.
    * Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.
    * Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.
    * Private citizens may make citizens arrests of lawbreakers (i.e., illegal immigrants) and hand them to the authorities.
    * Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason and without due process.

  74. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    George, you better believe it! We need people like Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter in office to get us back on track.

  75. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, do you not understand why we have rules and regulations and a legal process? We have them in place so that our society and infrastructure will not collapse! If we let everyone in to solve everyone’s problems…we would collapse into nothing and become a 3rd World country. How effective would that be?

  76. park'd said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:50 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ok all, let’s give the ol’ quoting of Biblical scripture a rest in here. I can quote as many scriptures that support the crack down of illegal immigration and its effects as you pro-illegal crowd can quote for supporting it. Biblical scripture is not what we follow as law in this country. If you want to live in a country where they live by religious scripture then I suggest that you pack up and move to a Muslim country. Here in the USA we live by the rule of law, or at least we are supposed to.

    There is nothing that a pro-illegal supporter can say that can justify the fact that these people come here illegally, usually with false papers, steal from Americans whether it be services that they take, jobs that they steal or a plethora of other violations that they rack up on a daily basis. The day that someone can justify to me why these things should be overlooked is the day that I may change my mind, but until then, they are criminals that sully the reputation of America as a country of law and order.

  77. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    Cunning linguist - according to the 2000 census, there were approx 180,000 Old Amish in America. Their population growth is fairly static and not subject to massive influxes of immigrants.

    There are somewhere between 12 and 30 million ILLEGAL immigrants in America. Most of these spanish speaking.

    I think your piece is carefully worded and predicated on the idea that spanish is no longer a minority language.

    Be that as it may - why am I not prompted at the check out, or on the telephone if I want Pennsylvanie Deutsch?

    No. I am constantly harangued over whether I want spanish or English. Must be just a convenience option thrown out there for the benefit of us all.

  78. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:52 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mr. The Patriot,

    Care to tell me what “the plan” is? Sounds a lot like you’re about to talk about racial/cultural death of us good-ole’ white folks. Please surprise me by telling me that this isn’t the case. Also: dontcha think that a big, bad multigenerational plan that involved the slow overtake of American urban centers by a coordinated illumati of left-wingnut moobat jobs (or whatever Malkin’s saying these days) is giving “them” a teense too much credit? I mean, we liberals can barely get our latte orders straight!

    Oh yes, and I do think I’m using my eyes and ears; I guess I am just a little more skeptical than you are. I’m happy to see evidence of “the plan”–evidence that is not circumstantial inference–if you care to present it (with appropriate, credible references and citations, of course.)

    “Rep. Guiterrez was asked by Lou Dobbs a few weeks back why policy was not being made for “the good of all Americans”.”

    Can you provide a reference so I can read the interview, please?

    (Okay, out to lunch; back later.)

  79. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Actually, Kohl’s (for their credit services) starts their message in Spanish.

  80. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, I will let you do your research on what the “plan” is. It will do you some good. Also, it was on the Lou Dobbs show a few weeks back when Amnesty was NOT passed. Why don’t you request the transcript from CNN.
    P.S…liberals such as yourself always like to shout “Conspiracy Theory”. The evidence is clear…there is no conspiracy…it is reality.

  81. Anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:58 pm:
    Flag comment

    Miguel:

    If Prince William County were a place where, “people are being massacred and women being raped and the only option left to them is to …” you can bet your ass that the hardware in my closet safe would be getting exercised and some lead pellets about 7.62 mm in diameter would be flying around the parkway at about 2200 feet per second. In other words, I (and many other real Americans) would not put up with that situation. Why do Mexicans (as well as El Sal’s, Hondos, Guats, and others) put up with it in their countries? Don’t you people have any huevos? If you go back to Mexico, I’ll go to the border there with you and provide a nice assault rifle and 1000 rounds. Let me know.

  82. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 1:58 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, why don’t you also take a look at “You Don’t Speak for Me”. This organization consists of LEGAL hispanics that are against the illegal alien agenda.

  83. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:00 pm:
    Flag comment

    “Jesus, even though he was the Son of God, subjugated himself to the laws of the land.”

    Ummm, no he didn’t; depending on your interpretation, he advocated civil disobedience! And, depending on your interpretation, he preached god’s love for everyone, including unrepentant sinners. But of course biblical interpretation is basically an exercise in finding precedent for preconceived notions–both of ours.

    My interpretation of the Bible is that of Greek Orthodox - with unbroken continuity to the Apostles. Not the result of a secular seminar.

    Speaking of civil disobedience, what is your opinion on that?

    Civil disobedience is a touchy feely way of legitimizing law breaking.

    There are, after all, multiple ways of trying to change the law.

    Yes, and as long as the means fall within existing statutes - they are certainly acceptable.

    (Of course, I don’t mean to imply that illegal immigrants are practicing high-minded virtue. I think they’re acting out of severe economic desperation and hope for a better life.)

    You are making excuses for criminals. If they were willing to act out of desperation, they could desperately attempt to make things better in their own county instead of running away and breaking the law here.

    Yes there are issues of higher principles. In my opinion, they don’t stoop to enabling petty crime.

  84. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    One must ask “would the behavior of illegal immigrants in this country be tolerated in their home country”? No. Mexican Border Guards shoot to kill illegal immigrants coming into Mexico from Guatemala.

    For the nut jobs who try to tie this argument of illegal immigration to racism, start with the popular printed racist cartoon character of Memín Pingüín. Pingüín has grossly distorted, monkey-like features, a bald head and big ears. His mother is a grotesquely fat, bandanna-wearing mammy. She routinely wears her bandanna around their house, a ramshackle affair in a poor barrio. The Mexican government’s sale of the racially offensive cartoon character Memín Pingüín as a commemorative stamp is a nice reality check for the liberals who try to distort the argument. As an American citizen/veteran, I respect all my fellow Americans. Do I really want a group of people that would celebrate such racism with a postal stamp for sale by the Mexican government in my America? Not in a million years.

  85. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    It has nothing to do with racism. That is what the liberals like to cry in our PC society because it riles people up. For those that think that an “invasion” is not underway….take a look at this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19127991/site/newsweek/
    Facts are facts!
    I would like you liberals on here to start using facts to back up your statements vice just your liberal opinions.

  86. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    Good point, Patriot. It is indeed one thing to throw excrement against the wall to see if it will stick - quite another to construct an intelligent argument.

    Most of the left prefers the former.

  87. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:18 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,

    Good job. I totally agree with you and your facts, they are facts that can’t be disputed. Liberals will attacks you and Bruce. They live in an unreal world. Liberals say they are tolerant, but that means as long as you agree with them. When you don’t the lies come out and the off-topic arguments. Illegal immigration is what is it - Illegal.

  88. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    One more big fact on why “we cannot save the world” Watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2RKBxR3BTI
    Watch the whole thing…particularly with the analogy he uses.

  89. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Now on the topic of “assimilation”. The liberals do not understand why this is so important…therefore…I will spell it out with a very clear and concise example and quiz:
    There are (2) teams.

    Team A:

    5 people
    All speak the same language (English)
    All follow the “common” playbook
    Team B

    5 people
    Decided that they will all speak different languages
    Decided they each want to follow different playbooks
    Questions:

    Which team is more united?

    Which team will most likely be more successful in coming together when crisis hits?

    Which team will most likely be more successful in meeting the team’s objective?

    Which team is truly a team vice being just a group of people thrown together?

    Which team is BALKANIZED?

  90. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    The Mexican government was busy increasing the deportation of Central Americans, especially Guatemalans. Cited by the Apro news service, figures from Guatemala’s national migration institute reveal that 43,685 Guatemalans were deported from Mexico during the first 4 months of 2006. Almost 100,000 Guatemalans were deported from Mexico during all of 2005. If they can do it, we can pack’em up and ship them back home. Absolutely disgusting double standard. Liberal comment please?

  91. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben - they were deported HERE.

    Marielitos anyone?

  92. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio on Friday launched a hotline for Valley residents to report information about undocumented immigrants.

    Details of exactly how the hotline will work and which tips will merit further investigation have not been ironed out. Officials say they aren’t sure how many and what types of calls will come in.

    Still, Arpaio said deputies would investigate people only if they had “probable cause.”

    “We want evidence,” Arpaio said. “We’re not going to go on a street corner and round up a group of people because they look like they’re from a foreign country.”

    Arizona also recently passed a law addressing employers -

    Virginia politicians, are you listening? Get the construction bribe money out of your ears. It CAN be done.

    Virginia law enforcement - are you listening? It really is OK to do your jobs. Spend less time picking up HOV cash and start enforcing the law.

  93. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    We should listen to the following:
    Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907:
    “In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American and nothing but an American. … There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. … We have room for but one language here and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
    Theodore Roosevelt 1907
    This would coincide with my assimilation quiz.

  94. BT said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Yes, name calling is what passes for serious debate when libs are involved. Oppose illegal immigration and you are a racist. Oppose the full embrace of homosexuality in the public schools and you’re a homophobe. Oppose racial preferences at our colleges and you are a bigot. Oppose welfare reform and, well, you get the picture. But two issues Americans need to hear more about were center stage in Washington last week. The first involved Democrats refusing to vote in favor of legislation that would protect airline passengers from lawsuits should they report suspicious behavior. Evidently, political correctness trumps airline safety as Democrats would rather take a hard line against profiling than protecting the American people from Islamic terrorists. The other vote involved efforts by Republicans to bury the Fairness Doctrine once and for all. Democrats voted against it and are drooling at the prospect of silencing talk radio should they control congress and the White House in ‘08. If in the process the First Amendment is trampled underfoot, so be it. It will be but a small price to pay for what the left has in store for us…………………

  95. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    More on the importance of assimilation:
    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0129hayworth0129.html
    Have I provided enough facts? Or shall I keep going?

  96. Kirk Marusak said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:42 pm:
    Flag comment

    Greg stated in the Washington Post article that “I am anti-sin.” The ninth commandment states “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” Does Greg and the Black Velvet Bruce Li website engage in bearing false witnesses against people in the Prince William County and Manassas communities? That is something that Greg will have to decide for himself. I believe Jesus Christ wanted all people and groups of people to work together and not fight one another. Jesus never encouraged people to gossip about one another or make innuendoes to get their goals accomplished. The truth must be spoken, but a person has to be certain about what he or she says before making comments that may harm others. Is that not what Jesus’ envisioned for the people of this world? I am not referring to any specific political issue or group of people when making these statements.

  97. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:42 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    I meant the Mexican governments double standard of crying about Washington, but being absolutely brutal with their immigration policies. The US can and must deport these law breakers.

  98. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, what “false witness” is being made against people in the PWC and Manassas communities? Please provide your facts.

  99. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, why don’t you take the assimilation quiz I posted above too (and read the article that I posted regarding this issue).

  100. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk,

    Come on man, we are talking about illegal immigration here. Get off it. Go dump your latte on your head and wake up.

  101. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, out of all the illegal immigrants in our communities (around our country)….what group would you say has abused our immigration laws the most? Please be honest.

  102. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:52 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben - I was trying to build on your point - it was a good one.

  103. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 2:57 pm:
    Flag comment

    Well, Kirk? Back up the innuendo insinuation.

    You talked the talk - walk the walk.

  104. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    I would really like to see a build up on this forum where we hold the politicians accountable for these illegal immigrants and the damage being done to our communities. We need to have these clowns fired from office. That is all the understand.

  105. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:05 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben - I would support that with everything I have. Its time to shine some sunlight on these cockroaches.

  106. Tupac Goldstein said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:05 pm:
    Flag comment

    Absolutely nothing wrong with $12 lettuce and $8 tomatoes. Deportation? Se si puede!

  107. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    The cost of goods argument is ridiculous! Where did you get those facts tupac? Logically, cheap labor would drive costs way way down! This is not what we see now is it? Who is benefitting from cheap labor…the consumer…or the owners of the businesses? The owners of the businesses! How do I know this? When you ask for an itemized labor cost breakout and you get charged $100 per labor hour (yet…the people these businesses hire are getting small wages)…where is the cost savings? There is none…it is all business profit.

  108. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    Also, how can we be cutting veterans benefits while giving these bloodsuckers entitlements. It is the politicians. They must be fired and ones hired who represent what is best fro America. That moonbat Ted Kennedy wants for H1B visas for high technical immigrants. Why doesn’t he sponsor a bill to give free education to our men and women in Walter Reed to go to any university to study engineering and computer science. It is good for them and America. They may not be able to continue to serve in the military, but America needs them again in a different way. It would give our wounded a new sense of service to the country and would be great for America. Yet, politicians like Ted Kennedy want to forget them and give a bloodsucker who has never done anything for our country a winning lottery ticket. DISGUSTING.

  109. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    The politicians would change their tune if they had to live in the trenches like we do. It is easy to make decisions when you are sheltered from the consequences of those decisions.

  110. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    What idiots like Tupac don’t realize is that we are paying in other ways that outweigh, culturally and financially, the benefits of a cheap tomato. If big business paid fair wages, Americans would do the job. But all of this is banter. Illegal immigration is illegal. No matter how you slice it.

  111. Kirk Marusak said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    I am not condemning anyone about having an honest discussion about illegal immigration. I believe that is healthy and productive for citizens to get active on political issues. What I am talking about is the Black Velvet Bruce Li website in general over all of the months I have viewed it. Greg has made a lot of negative statements about people. Many times he has been inaccurate in his assessments. Is Greg engaging in bearing false witnesses against thy neighbors? Some people lives have been truly damaged by Greg’s comments when the statements are later learned not to be true. I believe political discussion is one thing and gossiping is another. It certainly would be better if Greg brought the Prince William and Manassas communities together to help resolve the immigration issue and other issues that face us. Having all organizations in our area sit together and come up with solutions to our problems. Our community is very much divided on a lot of issues, and people are not working enough together to help resolve them. That leaves our area further polarized. Greg could do a lot to change that.

  112. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    A good start would be to publish the answers local pols give to illegal immigration questions.

    For example:

    Dear elected official,

    Why are you ignoring the law and doing nothing about illegal immigration?

    Why did a law banning contractors who hire illegals from obtaining Virginia State contracts fail and how did you vote?

    Did you vote for in state tuition for illegal aliens?

    Have you sponsored legislation to offer in state tuition to veterans?

  113. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben..you are correct. When the Senate was voting on the Amnesty legislation, Jeff Sessions (our Senate hero) stated that the cost of benefits alone (not including enforcement costs) could be in the trillions. It is simply unacceptable to place that burden on legal U.S. taxpayers.

  114. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, please provide specific examples. You remain vague…which does not help your argument. Also, answer my questions I posed earlier please.

  115. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, do you have specific examples or are you just making more unsubstantiated accusations?

    You know, the false witness bit you pander?

  116. citizenofmanassas said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:20 pm:
    Flag comment

    It figures as soon as the readers of the Washington COMPOST invade the blog it goes down hill.

    Again, for all those that talk about compassion, a favorite of Bush, who by the way does not have to live next to an overcrowded house, or does not have to worry about crime or his house value going down the drain, I have one question for you. Would you grant any criminal amnesty, or just those that broke immigration laws, and happen to have brown skin? If you answer no, then you are the racist ones.

    I recall last year driving down route 28 and seeing a huge group of people protesting waving foreign flags. Tell me again how loyal and American loving illegals and their supporters are?

    La Raza wants to pass down spanish to the grandkids(in today’s Washington Times) and do not want English as the official Language of the United States. They also want amnesty for illegals. Do you really think if the majority of illegals in this Country were not hispanic, La Raza would have such views? I guess that makes them racist to since they are only looking out for their kind.

  117. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:22 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, your post sounded like those that support Amnesty that tout…”Our System is broken and we need comprehensive immigration reform”. On the contrary, nothing is broken. We need to merely enforce our laws and hold people accountable.

  118. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Citizen - since you brought up Bush…

    After undergoing his recent colonoscopy, Now Bush knows how law abiding America feels.

  119. Anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dateline Fredricksburg, VA

    Woman comes home to find Illegal alien sitting on her toilet.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/13/america/NA-ODD-US-Toilet-Intruder.php

  120. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    Just listen to Janet from National Council of La Raza…she always says “the power of the Latino vote” this that and the other for Latinos. What I find fascinating is that we Americans should be voting for the good of all Americans…not just a particular group based one ethnicity. So wouldn’t you say that NCLR has an agenda to further one group of people at the expense of all others? I think so.

  121. Anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    More aricles on intruder

    http://www.nbc4.com/news/13671581/detail.html

    http://www.whsv.com/virginiaap/headlines/8492382.html

  122. Anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dateline Fredricksburg, VA

    Woman comes home to find Illegal alien sitting on her toilet.

    http://www.whsv.com/virginiaap/headlines/8492382.html

    http://www.nbc4.com/news/13671581/detail.html

  123. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    I think this issue generates a lot of passionate dioscussion. I think that in general, people find a lot of personal attacks in these blogs or anecdotes without real facts.
    I am starting to shoot a documentary in Nothern Virginia to document what really happens. I am not heere to take sides, just to “document” these events and people goes through when cultures crash.
    I think that Greg, regarding his views on the issue, put his image out there for people to criticize or support.
    I want to record your views on camera. I want yuo to show me your neighborhoods. Show me your support or condemn ation of illegal immigration with images. I hear a lot the story that “my neighbor has 9 people living in his house, the pee in the garden, they are just criminals…etc” or the opposite side telling us how illegal aliens bring something positive to our country.
    I don’t take sides, i don’t use names, I just want to see if we can come up with a document of this reality in Northern Virginia.
    I have the camera and all the equipment ready. Email me with your real name, email and phone number if you want to participate in creating something. I know it requires courage for those who have strong views about this issue but I think it is the time to start this dialogue with something more than just a nickname in the web. So I encourage to stand for you neighborhoods regardless of which side you support.
    Again, write to:
    idocumentary@yahoo.com
    My email is idocumentary@yahoo.com

  124. BT said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk:

    I also remember Jesus taking it to the money changers at the Temple and calling the Pharisees a brood of vipers and whited sepulchers - how does that mesh with the image you have of him as being a passive, tolerant to a fault, Morgan Freeman type Savior?

  125. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk,

    Your liberal banter of we must all hold hands and sing Kumbayah to find the answer to illegal immigration is very shortsighted, irresponsible, and quite frankly, delusional. The American people have spoken overwhelmingly that they don’t want illegal immigrants, we want enforcement of our immigration laws, and no amnesty.

    As for your comments on the Black Velvet Bruce Li website. I suggest going back and reading your anti-American books published in the former Soviet Union. Bruce has every right under the 1st Amendment to free speech. You liberals do not like that because it does not fit your agenda, but it is a Constitutional right. I suggest a one-way ticket to a North Korean gulag for you.

  126. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    Documentary, you don’t need anyone to show you. Why don’t you just drive around and use your camera. This situation is not isolated in just PWC…it is all around the country. Why don’t you do some research….that is what a good filmaker would do. Additionally, illegal aliens are criminals (entered our country illegally, reside here illegally, steal benefits that they are not entitled to, steal identities to include social security cards and numbers, forge documents, etc.). The facts are plain and simple.

  127. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:42 pm:
    Flag comment

    The Patriot,

    You got that right. Also, you don’t know who he is. I bet your personal data would lead to harassment by groups such as La Raza and other extremists. idocumentary - go to a town council meeting or a local 7-11 and speak to people. Nice try.

  128. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:42 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,
    I have done my research and I have enough tape of Nother Viriginia. Are you willing to be in front of the camera?

  129. Kirk Marusak said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Before anyone guesses my opinion on any issue, I just wanted to say that I have mixed opinions on the immigration issue. I am not necessarily for amnesty. I do support keeping our borders secured since that is the law. At the same time, I understand the feelings of some of the illegal or undocumented people who come here from Latin American countries. I would have to sit down with people and explain how I see the entire issue - “the big picture” since I feel it is quite complex.

    Regardless of my opinions on illegal immigration, it would be beneficial if Help Save Manassas, Mexicanos Sin Fronteros, Unity in the Community, area churches, and any other organizations in our area to sit down to understand one another. That “won’t move mountains,” but some people are not looking at all sides of this issue. I sometimes think I know everything about an issue when I later learn there are other factors involved that I was not aware of. I am not condemning anyone else’s position of this issue.

    When I am talking about bearing false witnesses is when Greg made statements and innuendoes about Faisal Gill, Jeff Dion, and others. It is better to be certain before making comments about another person. Most people do not like gossip. Otherwise, Black Velvet Bruce Li website feels more like an on-line version of the National Enquirer rather than a serious political discussion website for the Prince William/Manassas area. That does not benefit the community or Greg.

  130. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben Franklin,
    So you already put me in a category without even talking with me. Why would I harrass you? Why would people do that to you?
    Do you see that Greg will get harrassed? His kids?
    Is there anything wrong in what you are doing?

  131. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    idocumentary - Get lost. Go to another blog about film making. If you have enough film to make a tape about N. VA., your job is done and you have no other need. This suggests you are here for alternative motives. Bye.

  132. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Documentary, if you have done your research then you should already be able to come to your conclusions. Hang out at the local ERs too while you are at it. Additionally, feel free to use the information that I posted today in this thread (articles, videos, etc.).

  133. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    idocumentary - here are couple of suggestions. Go to the major construction sites in the area. Film the taco trucks that have replaced the lunch wagons. See how many Americans are working them. Go to the free (not free to the taxpayers) clinics and film who is using them. Go through Manassas around the mall area on Sunday.

    Go to every fast food restaurant in Manassas and take notes of the employees.

    Now, keep in mind how expensive and difficult it is to be here legally and ask yourself - is this possible that this many hispanics are here legally?

    Go through the neighborhoods on Sunday or late in the evening in Manassas Park.

    Then, offer your findings to Lingamfelter and ask how this can be. You will get a straight answer - which will lead you to Wolf, Davis, Warner and Webb.

  134. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    So Patriot,
    Can I see you in a council meeting? When? Just tell me. What is the fear about your own views. Don’t give yopur phone number. Just email me. Don’t even give me your real name. Let’s start there and see if we can have a dioalogue. That’s all. I don’t want 7-11 images. I want real people.

  135. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,
    To use yyoiur videos I need your consent in writing. Would you do that?

  136. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, illegal aliens are criminals…see a previous post for the list. Many people from poor countries have come in the LEGAL way. There is no excuse not to. Why don’t you ask them their opinion on whether it is right or wrong to come here illegally (regardless of the situation). Contact “You Don’t Speak for Me”. See what they say. They are legal hispanics against illegal immigration.

  137. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,
    You see, that is the easy part as you said. There are so amny people out there that it is not a problem to find someone here illegally. I want to see the other side. What is the fear then?

  138. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:50 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk,

    How is this issue complex? Someone breaks the law, it is illegal behavior. Just because many do it, does not make it right or give government the right to ignore it. Do you suggest we give such options to murders and drunk drivers? Many people commit those crimes, does that mean they should not be illegal. What I am saying is that illegal immigration is leading to a slippery slope in this country. How can one crime go unpunished while others do? How can a U.S. citizen be punished for a crime, while an illegal is not punished for a crime?

  139. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:52 pm:
    Flag comment

    Documentary, the videos I posted on this thread are not mine. They are from Youtube. I did not create them. I correspond with the Board of County Supervisors on a regular basis. Fear, what fear? I posted my comments here and I send them regularly to the BOCS. 7-11 images are real images…what are you talking about???? Those are real people. That is where many illegals hang out for day labor.

  140. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:54 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,

    Don’t waste your time and energy with this guy. I think there are other motives here. Considering the MS-13 problem in N. VA, idocumentary should start meeting some of them….

  141. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    Documentary…contact “You Don’t Speak for Me”. See what they say. They are legal hispanics against illegal immigration. I agree with them.

  142. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    So what is your name: Mel Gibson. Don’t get me wrong How do I find you hanging out there? All I know is your opinions but I don’t know who you are. The people committed to talk about these issues are not willing to show the every day conflicts they live. &-11 images you see them everywhere, I have those. I want to see you with your neighbors, those causing troubles or is it just what you hear that you repeat here.

  143. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:57 pm:
    Flag comment

    Documentary…again…we all live in the midst of this issue. Drive around and take a look with your eyes. What is it that you “don’t understand?”

  144. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:58 pm:
    Flag comment

    It is the MS 13 now…. If I were interested in that I would go to San Salvador. I am not trying to do that. I see that it is waste o time top deal with these issues face to face.

  145. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:58 pm:
    Flag comment

    idocumentary - My name is Michael Moore.

  146. Kirk Marusak said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    I am not disagreeing that illegal aliens have broken the law. I believe it is classified as a criminal offense to come into the U.S. without proper documentation. Why are people coming here illegally in the first place? They get better paid in the U.S. than in their original countries. Maybe raising the standard of living in the Latin America countries with higher wages will discourage people from coming across our border. People are coming from Africa and Turkey to the European Union countries since their wages are higher there. Some Nicaraguans are going into Costa Rica since the standard of living in Costa Rica is higher. I support building a wall across our southern border since that seems the only way to keep the border secure. However, I also believe the wage issue south of our border should be addressed. We need to talk about low living standards or poverty outside our borders.

  147. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 3:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    For starters…why don’t you drive in the Sudley Manor area, liberia area, and lomond drive areas. Report your findings!

  148. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:02 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk, watch the video I posted concerning the population boom earlier today in this thread. There is an analogy regarding what you are saying. It is up to the people and their governments in their own countries to make things better there.

  149. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    Well, when I read the newspapers from 1910 and 1920 I find the same things. The Italian won’t assimilate, the kids don’t learn English, they send their money back home, etc.
    In 1924 alone, 170,000 peopole entered this country illegally.
    Is it the same thing now? I don’t think that people against illegal immigration are racist. there is a conflict of cultures.

  150. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    Michael Moore? So your stories are not supported with facts then. I knew it….
    Seriously, why do you think that a person should be attacked? Why do you think you need to ridicule me?

  151. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    idocumentary- Let me remind you of the case of Brenda Paz, she was found murdered on the banks of the Shenandoah River. She had been stabbed repeatedly and her throat had been slit. And the autopsy revealed something else: she was four months pregnant. For a short lesson on geography the Shenandoah River is in Virginia, not San Salvador.

    I think this qualifies a one of the “every day conflicts they live”.

  152. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    What is the findings contradict your points? Would you be willing to talk about what you stand for? I mean a real person in front of a camera.

  153. Becky D. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    Greg, you certainly have renewed the spark in an ongoing conversation about illegal immigration that people within the community are having. Interesting that one of the conversations on this thread has been going on for almost two hours on a day when the weather couldn’t be more beautiful and inviting to go outside. BVBL has hit home with some folks it certainly appears. Keep up the good work.

  154. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk - again you are making excuses for criminal behavior. Personally I don’t care about the motives behind the crime. I care about the crime.

    I could care less about wages in Mexico - that is a Mexican problem.

    How the European countries have allowed the invasions of their countries should be a lesson - not an example.

    We have what we have in America that is such a magnet because of an incredible amount of work and sacrifice by Americans. It was not free and it was not easy. Yet that is what the illegals are clamoring for.

    Immigrants are welcome here. Always have been. Criminals are not welcome. That is a status of their own making. Not some shortcoming of ours.

    Our economy is losing billions of dollars through money transfers. Money made through illegal actions. Our social systems are overloaded by people who can’t afford to go the legal route to a work visa, and can’t pay their way here - yet the billions continues to flow south.

  155. idocumentary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    Now I don’t know geography. I guess I won’t waste my time with you. I don’t think you can even tell me with facts what happens in your neighbor, and not what you hear from Lou Dobbs. Do you have a specific address, not your lesson on geography.

  156. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    idocumentary- Your post - “Well, when I read the newspapers from 1910 and 1920 I find the same things. The Italian won’t assimilate, the kids don’t learn English, they send their money back home, etc.
    In 1924 alone, 170,000 peopole entered this country illegally.
    Is it the same thing now? I don’t think that people against illegal immigration are racist. there is a conflict of cultures”.

    Obviously you have a pro illegal immigration agenda. Your numbers above are false and lies. A conflict of cultures? No, it is called a refusla to assimilate.

  157. WAPOST MEETS BVBL « Citizen Tom said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    […] when HoodaThunk? mentioned BVBL clarification (here), I was curious. How was Mr. BVBL going to explain that he had never actually called Faisal Gill a […]

  158. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    idoc - which newspapers? Were these opinions from people across America? In 1924, was there a social system being overloaded by Italians? Did the Italians attempt to use legal terrorism to force Italian in our schools systems?

    I think you are comparing apples with oranges. Or pizza and tacos..

  159. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    Documentary…you are wrong….there is a difference between people coming here in the early 1900s and the new wave today. In the early 1900s to become an “American Citizen” was cherished. One could say it had a “prize” value that being a “Roman Citizen” had when the Roman Empire existed. Many of the new wave today no longer value becoming a citizen. Look at how many of them trample the American flag and carry ridiculous signs at recent protests. Multiculturalism has downgraded the value of what being an American is all about. Tom Tancredo explains it the best…go do some research on what he says. Read the article I posted today in this thread regarding assimilation. Also, read T. Roosevelts quote and put all the pieces together.

  160. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,
    A lot of people came to this country illegally in the 20s’. Al Capone ran a business from little Cicero. Not only alcohol was brought then. At the time these criminals didn’t have last names Diaz or Paz. It seems that they committed a crime and then assimilated. Is that possible? They sent millions at the time back to Italy but they built their future here.

  161. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:14 pm:
    Flag comment

    idocumentary - The woman was brutally murdered by members of MS-13 in Northern Virginia. The gang originated in El Salvador. Most are here illegally. There have been many machete attacks in N. VA by these gangs. Can you connect the dots? Stevie Wonder can see this. Forget making documentaries.

  162. Kirk Marusak said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    A lot of the countries in Latin America only look out for the businesses and are not concerned about whether the majority of their citizens raise their standard of living. If we leave it up to each government to resolve their own problems, the illegal immigration problem will probably continue to face us. If people read some information about the lives of people in Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador, they will learn about why people in those countries are not getting out of poverty.

    Before World War II, 2/3 of Americans were poor. After World War II, the G.I. bill encouraged the returning soldiers to go to college. We soon became a middle-class country in the fifties. Education is one part of decreasing poverty.

    The U.S. cannot solve all of the world’s problems by itself. However, the wealthier nations as a unit can come up with some solutions that can change the lives of those people. There is no reason why every person in this world should not be able to read in the 21st century. In some countries, 80% of the population cannot read or write.

  163. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,,
    immigration records contradict your points. If theye were valuing US citizenship, why do you think they were going back to their countries? OPnce they made money they went back to Italy.
    The immigrants from the 1900s had their own newspapers and had their flags out there. The first generation did not assimilate as fast as their kids. You will see a lot of salvadorans moms with kids who understand spanish but reply in english. Eventually tghey will assimilate

  164. Patty said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:18 pm:
    Flag comment

    Eve,

    “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil” Isaiah 5:40

    There you have it. God pronounces woe on those who call evil good.

    I’ll bet if you woke up one morning and there were no laws you wouldn’t survive the day.

    By the way read Romans 13:1 through 7.

  165. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben,
    To correct you a bout a little fact:m The MS 13 did originate in San Salvador. It started in LA in 1972. I don’t know if you have seen the National Geographic show on MS 13. They don’t even speak spanish.

  166. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian - Yes, you can make anecdotal comparisons. The number of bad Italians was miniscule and above all - they wished to be Americans.

    Too suggest that what happened in the 20’s is a guarantee for the future is not logical.

    Let me ask you this - and anyone else- just what is wrong with obeying our laws?

    Why can’t the people who send money home each week, save a little and return home, go to the consulate and apply for a visa?

    Why can’t those in Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala - the list goes on - go to the consulate first?

    Too difficult? A wait? SO WHAT! I can’t do all the things I want to do - RIGHT NOW. If I want to visit a country that requires a visa, I HAVE TO APPLY FOR THE VISA.

    Since they choose to break the law rather than obey the law - sucks to be them.

    THEY broke the law - not me. Don’t call me a bigot - call them a criminal.

  167. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    Why is multiculturalism bad? I think that a lot of our limited views on this issue start with our lack of understanding or interest in exploring other cultures.

  168. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Kirk

    ‘Before World War II, 2/3 of Americans were poor. After World War II, the G.I. bill encouraged the returning soldiers to go to college. We soon became a middle-class country in the fifties. Education is one part of decreasing poverty.’

    That is what America did for Americans. We owe zip to the countries which have been invading us except jail cells and deportation orders.

    I will go back to my original point - it is up to the inhabitants to fix their country, not us.

    It takes courage, dedication and sacrifice to build a country. Let them fix their own country and make something of it. Then they can visit as tourists.

    America should be an example - not a feeding trough.

  169. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    I didn’t call you a bigot. the immigration records for 1924 (when the quotas started) showed that about 210, 000 people cane to this country. Out of that total, half returned to their country. 170,000 came here illegally that year through Cuba.
    What is wrong about sending money to their countries? Italians sent and average of 270 million dollars a year in the 1900s’. They built houses back home.
    I don’t think you are bigot because you stand your ground. Give me facts and not names.
    It cost $10,000 to deport an illegal alien. They broke the law and your solution is not enforcable. You can do attrition by enforcement but then they are here for a reason. There are jobs in the area. I don’t hear anything about penalizing the employers because a lot of them don’t look like the owners of El Pollo Loco

  170. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian-

    Want to celebrate diversity? Travel.

    Want to live in America - become an American.

    Tell me about the diversity in Italy. No nationalism there - huh?

    I have traveled extensively through the middle east, Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean. What I found most charming was the fact that when I was in Egypt, it wasn’t Greece. Malta was not Sicily. Rome was not Sophia.

    It wasn’t just me that found it charming - The Egyptians, Greeks, Italians, Bulgarians - all found it charming.

    One of the biggest arguments against the EU was the fear of losing national identity.

    France is well on its way.

    America is a great nation, peopled by many different nations. When we stop becoming America, and lose our sovereignty, we are toast.

    What then liberals? How will the third world survive?

  171. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,
    I don’t think that anyone is demanding to fix other countries. How do you specifically and realistically fix this problem. Enforce the laws is not specific enough. Let say that it is possible, who is going to take those jobs? Give me specifics.
    I hear that people will take those jobs. You heard a lot about thos packing plants after the ICE raids and how the folloiwing day americans were in line waiting for a job. We don’t here that the americans taking those jobs didn’t last. A week later theye were gone. In fact the turn over ration is 44% now.

  172. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    I don’t hear anything about penalizing the employers because a lot of them don’t look like the owners of El Pollo Loco

    Italian - read my posts.

  173. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mr. The Patriot,

    *sigh* Well, having burned my mouth on a latte (they never get the foam right, do they?) I return to find that you’ve insulted my intelligence with the assertion that I should research the conspiracy you hinted at on my own-evading my challenge-and asking that I take a trite, condescending quiz. I may just have to have a glass of Chablis to unwind.

    Look: don’t insinuate that I should “research this on my own” while consistently drawing wild inferences from MSN maps (which show what everyone agrees on: that immigration is occurring, but do not “prove” that there is an “invasion” taking place.) You also cite an opinion piece by a US congressman that is a set of strung-together opinions from other people as a “fact.” These are the two “facts” you have cited so far, and they hint at being lazy. It reflects poorly on you.

    And here is why your sports metaphor is silly: there are lots of multinational players in our various sports leagues, many of whom have, shall we say, questionable command of English. But, of course, they tend to do quite well AS A TEAM. This seems to suggest to me that they derive their unity not from some a priori, stupid “allegiance” that is a code for saying “you need to start thinking, acting, and working the way we do.” Rather, they become one by working together towards a common (and commonly agreed upon) objective. So I think your metaphor, at best, can be read the opposite way. At worst, it is incoherent, since the kind of integration you’re talking about is nothing like playing on a sports team together.

    Oh yes, and finally, it’s vexing when we “liberals” (funny how everyone becomes a cartoon character in these debates, eh? I guess that’s blogging for you…) are, on the one hand, lectured about how everyone needs to have the same playbook and work to a common cause, while on the other hand told repeatedly that people who have different political and policy opinions than you hate America, you, or are dumb. I would humbly suggest that one thing that makes America really great is that people can disagree, and that a good solution to much of what bothers you about “those people” could be solved by showing them their stake in the system. True, you might have to learn Spanish to do so, but you might be surprised.

  174. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,
    In the United States (not America, because America is the whole continent) we cannot celebrate diversity? I agree that all those /americans nicknames should be abolished, but without diversity we wouldn’t be what we are as a nation. I guess that eating pizza (Chicago style) will make us loose our sovereignty

  175. Patty said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Eve,

    I hate it when God is used in order to practice lawlessness. It cheapens what Jesus did on the cross. Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness. It rejoices with the truth. Love must be tough. After all we discipline our children when they do something wrong so that they know there are consequences for their behavior. Try to imagine a world where children are not discplined. They grow up to do what comes natural, evil deeds. Do you wonder why God destroyed the earth in a flood?

    Look how much Jesus had to suffer to pay the penalty for sins. Grace is not a license to do evil. You only need to read Romans to find out about that. Also, in order to receive God’s forgiveness of sins one must repent. That is a recognition that we are seperated from God. We naturally sin becaue we are born into it. We need to turn from sin and receive God’s gift. We are dead in sins. God offers life.

    Be careful. Listen to Jesus’ warning: “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ Matthew 7:22-23.

  176. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick W.
    I appreciate your logic. I don’t think we hear a lot of facts around blogs. It is just the name calling that ends the dialogue. For some reason, the immigrants we have now, once they committed the crime they cannot do anything positive. they are criminals forever. I think we are going to face a lot of problems in the near future because of all people jaywalking in DC. The are committing a c rime so i guess that they are a problem for our society.

  177. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian - I don’t think that anyone is demanding to fix other countries.

    Read Kirk’s posts.

    Who will take the jobs? Americans will take the jobs. The biggest problem has been an artificially depressed wage market. Construction workers are making just about the same as they did 20 years ago because of the influx of cheap illegal labor.

    Americans won’t live in multifamily apartments, live in sub standard conditions - and shouldn’t have to. Just because of a greedy employer who presently can use slave labor.

    When realistic wages return and the illegals are banned from the job place - Americans will return to the job site.

    Who do you think built the houses 20 years ago? Go to Maine. Look around. You will see Americans building houses, working in fast food, working on the roads - you know, the jobs Americans won’t do.

    That has been the most vicious bit of propaganda leved against the American workers ever.

    If there is turn over, it is because the factory is still paying sub par pay - thinking this is short lived and soon the little brown slaves will be back.

    Given the horrendous job Homeland Security has done - they have good reason to think that.

  178. Concerned said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    I visited Ellis Island earlier this spring. It is a wonderfully inspiring tribute to the millions of legal immigrants who helped build this country. Ellis Island has recently added a circular monument that includes the names of everyone who entered the US there. It is huge! You can walk around it for hours and search for the names of your family and friends.

    Where are the names of the illegal aliens plaguing our nation now? America knew who its immigrants were at the time of Ellis Island, where they intended to go and what they sought to accomplish. Any anonymous criminal can now sneak into our nation and demand privileges beyond those afforded American citizens. People from all around the world who wish to immigrate here legally are put at the end of the line behind the scum who disregard our laws because it interferes with their own selfish agendas.

    In hundred years what will be the memorial to the immigration taking place today? If we don’t act and act quickly that memorial will be a disease-ridden, impoverished, third-world like USA living at the mercy of powerful nations who controlled their own destinies, such as China.

    At Ellis Island, an immigrant had to be free of disease before being allowed to enter the US population. In article on Holy Cross Hospital published on July 1, 2006, the “Washington Post” reported, “Elsewhere, from the emergency room to the primary medicine clinic, doctors and nurses confront conditions and diseases they did not see a decade ago — malaria, infectious diarrhea, parasites such as tapeworm. Even many common ailments can be more challenging, because they often require translation from a panoply of foreign tongues and cultures.

    “Serving the underserved is integral to Holy Cross’s mission, and the Silver Spring hospital has long shouldered much of the care for poor, uninsured residents of Montgomery County. But as that population has expanded rapidly with the continued arrival of immigrants, legal and illegal, it has become a much more difficult and expensive proposition.”

    Everyone concerned about immigration, regardless of where they stand on the issue, should visit Ellis Island. Get a sense of our history, how our nation was built, and the strength we’ve gained from being a nation of law-abiding citizens. We’re losing that. We should always welcome immigrants from wherever they come. We should also remain a nation of laws, however, and not allow the corporations seeking cheap labor, and the anti-American, open-border crowd who delights at the prospect of the destruction of American culture, to destroy everything those who have gone before us have created.

  179. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    I think that God can grant amnesty. It work for Senator Vitter. He committed a crime when he hired someone to have sex with him. He asked for forgiveness and god granted it. He is no longer a criminal and he can continue talking against the criminals who cam to destroy his society. Not all crimes are equal and we allow some criminals to be our leaders.
    Many people talk about religion and the bible as you understand it and when it doesn’t contradicts your points.

  180. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian - sorry, but the United States IS America and vice versa.

    Globalism will die an ignominious fate.

    Nick - how do we treat Jaywalking? Do we look at the person’s origin and consider changing the law? Because that person doesn’t have jaywalking, we should be tolerant and abolish it?

    Nice try - but it is the ILLEGAL immigrants with which we have a problem.

    No name calling, just a factual description. What ends discussion is a deliberate attempt to falsely color the debate.

  181. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, your statements do not reflect reality. Look with your eyes. Listen with your ears. Look at statistics. And yes…you do need to research more. You obviously are having a hard time seeing the big picture.

  182. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    Concerned,
    I don’t see how this country didn’t destroy beforer when a lot of illegal immigrants were coming to thios country and even escaping from Ellis Island. there was a big business helping people to escape from the island when they feared that they could be deported. There were people coming illegally from Cuba and Canda and the country survived because they were coming to work.

  183. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    All ethnic groups are welcome provided they want to assimilate into the American melting pot culture and come here legally. If you disagree…take it up with Teddy Roosevelt.

  184. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian - now you speak for God? How do you know Vitter has been forgiven?

    As far as I am concerned, Vitter has zero credibility and should resign. He has abused his office and the trust of his constituents.

    He apparantly has used the services of a madam and that makes him a criminal.

    By definition and by action.

  185. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian,
    Well, thanks. I appreciate your discriminating taste. :)

    “For some reason, the immigrants we have now, once they committed the crime they cannot do anything positive. they are criminals forever. I think we are going to face a lot of problems in the near future because of all people jaywalking in DC. The are committing a c rime so i guess that they are a problem for our society.”

    This is actually an interesting point (I’m going to take it seriously, though it was meant facetiously.) If you want a good example of a horrible miscarriage of justice in the name of upholding “The Law,” take a look at the effect of a felony conviction–ANY felony conviction–on people’s job prospects after the fact.

    But I digress. You’re exactly right: people break the law all the time, but CERTAIN crimes (usually ones that profane perceived moral standards) are singled out as being “real” breaches of the law. So we should put it to our anti-immigration friends. Enforce the law? Sure. But which ones? After all, I’d love to meet the cop who has the whole statute book memorized…

  186. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Concerned,
    Are you worried about China owning one trillion dollars of our debt? You see get some little bones and tennis balls to keep ourselves entertained talking about the doom that Illegal immigration brings to this country. Our own expenditures supporting the wrong causes are the ones who will dictate our downfall. China owns us already and we don’t want to see it. We think that by starting trade wars we will solve this issue.

  187. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick…you keep referring to “anti-immigrant”. That is not what we advocate. Maybe you should pay attention to details. We advocate anti-illegal immigration. You use a classic liberal word twisting trick to take things out of context.

  188. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 4:58 pm:
    Flag comment

    Teddy Roosevelt made Jews and italians to fight and buy bonds during the World War I but what happened after that? Not support at all. Read the Lost Battalions if you want to see what happened to immigrants and black who fought for the Teddy Roosevelt ideals.

  189. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:00 pm:
    Flag comment

    No George. I don’t have the power granted to our politicians. I lost God direct line when I left the only church in the world (according to our beloved Pope Benedict).

  190. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    “Nick - how do we treat Jaywalking? Do we look at the person’s origin and consider changing the law? Because that person doesn’t have jaywalking, we should be tolerant and abolish it?”

    Thanks for the comment. No, I don’t think we do that. But I think that your metaphor is important, because it shows why calling something “illegal” doesn’t really make sense in this context. Yeah, crossing the border is illegal. But so is jaywalking. And you (and I) do that every day. There are lots of strange statutes that don’t make too much sense on the books, and hey, we all run stop signs every day.

    So the question is “why does it matter so much that this immigration is illegal?” I think it’s because this fits into moral understandings of ourselves that do make a big difference when we think about who we are. After all, we could grandfather every “illegal” person in the country, and they would no longer be illegal; they would pay the same taxes as you, have the same obligations, etc., etc.. But I don’t think this would placate you, since I’m pretty convinced that this is about a sense of being besieged by people who don’t think and act in exactly the same way as you (or I.) This is scary and frustrating, but the process of struggling to understand one another is what makes America really great!

  191. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick…your statements concerning my assimilation quiz are typical of a liberal. The quiz is very simple to answer. You “fluff” answers are just that…”fluff”. Everyone knows that non-assimilation will cause ultimate balkanization. Once that happens, we will no longer be a “united” country. Go back and review why Teddy Roosevelt’s quote makes sense. He knew that balkanization is a real danger.

  192. Concerned said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:03 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian - you are correct that there may have been some would-be immigrants sneaking out of Ellis Island, and even some entering through Cuba and Canada. No system was or ever will be perfect. Were there 20 or more million doing that at that time? Were the few illegal aliens at that time allowed to remain with the complicity and support of a Federal government who placed the interests of corporations seeking cheap labor above those of the citizens? Did those illegal aliens demand public services paid for by taxpayers as now (here’s a hint - those services did not exist then for the most part). I don’t think so. While your comments contain some historical accuracy, the relative magnitudes of the illegal alien problems then and now are not comparable.

  193. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:03 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian…do you think that we should get rid of the melting pot concept?

  194. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian…what happened to the Roman Empire? I believe they balkanized which contributed to their demise. Where is the Roman Empire now?

  195. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mr. The Patriot,

    “Nick…you keep referring to “anti-immigrant”. That is not what we advocate. Maybe you should pay attention to details. We advocate anti-illegal immigration. You use a classic liberal word twisting trick to take things out of context.”

    Here are the two contexts in which I used “anti-immigration.”:

    “The second theme that I’d like to discuss is the bedrock that the anti-immigration school seems to rest on: the argument “We just want to enforce the law.””

    AND

    “So we should put it to our anti-immigration friends. Enforce the law? Sure. But which ones? After all, I’d love to meet the cop who has the whole statute book memorized…”

    Well, I’m truly sorry. (And I know in the world of blogging sincerity is a rare thing.) That was a short-hand on my part, perhaps betraying my own biases. I apologize, and will try to do better; thank you for pointing it out.

    However, I do find your suggestion that I’m using “classic liberal word twisting” disheartening. I would hope that by now it would be clear that I’m here today because I’m trying for the opposite: for all of us to cut through the chatter a bit and try to decode what we really mean.

    I would also plead with you, sir (and I hope I haven’t been forward in assuming your gender): would you mind cutting me a little slack–and not cattily suggesting that I “pay more attention to details”–and engage with the substance of my argument, rather than capitalizing on a hasty turn of phrase to dismiss it tout court? I would appreciate it. For example, both of the contexts where I use the ill-thought “anti-immigration” label ask the same question about selective application of the law. Care to weigh in?

  196. Concerned said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian - Regarding your second response to my post I am very concerned about the economic situation domestically and globally. I’m a life-long Republican but can not defend the irresponsible spending of the Bush administration and the Congress (regardless of which party controls it). Social Security is bankrupt. The dollar is tanking because of our trade policies (i.e., buying billions of dollars of junk from China and selling them our assets to pay the bill). Our government (Republican and Democrat) is selling us out. We need to sweep out all of them and return to the days of leaders like Reagan and Kennedy in both parties. Those leaders supported free markets and a healthy economy but not open borders to provide cheap labor, un-”fair” trade that opens our markets to the world but does not demand reciprocity, and outsourcing our jobs so Bill Gates can get cheaper, foreign software engineers. We are allowing the standard of living in our nation to be destroyed and that’s not the American I want to bequeath to my children and grandchildren.

  197. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    THey get balkanized because theye were not happy with justy having their own nation but as you well put it they created an empire. They brough people from abroad to do the same things that immigrat do for us.

  198. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:18 pm:
    Flag comment

    I like to hear your thoughts about these other issues

  199. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mr. The Patriot,

    “Nick…your statements concerning my assimilation quiz are typical of a liberal. The quiz is very simple to answer. You “fluff” answers are just that…”fluff”. Everyone knows that non-assimilation will cause ultimate balkanization. Once that happens, we will no longer be a “united” country. Go back and review why Teddy Roosevelt’s quote makes sense. He knew that balkanization is a real danger.”

    Well, I agree that the conclusion you intend us to draw from the quiz is very simple; that’s why I said that it was insulting and condescending. The Roosevelt quote is an impressive soundbite and rhetorically powerful, to be sure, but I’m not sure how it substantiates your argument, so much as repeats it. Okay, so Roosevelt “knew” that this was somehow true; what evidence did he (or do you) have? The decline of Rome? Hardly caused by cultural balkanization…

    “Nick, your statements do not reflect reality. Look with your eyes. Listen with your ears. Look at statistics. And yes…you do need to research more. You obviously are having a hard time seeing the big picture.”

    *Double Sigh* Well, that’s one of the first times someone has said THAT about me. I really am having a hard day: poor synoptic capability AND and inability to attend to detail…

  200. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:24 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian…the Roman Empire failed because they did just what you said, spread themselves too thin, people did not assimilate, and balkanization occurred. Balkanization was the deal breaker! We need to learn from history…is that not why we take history courses? Nick, you need to choose your words carefully….those “mistakes” that you made are real tricks that liberals use to change the context.

  201. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:26 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick…please go and review the Roman Empire and how its demise came about.

  202. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:26 pm:
    Flag comment

    Concerned,
    I think that I just used your comments to illustrate the fact that as a nation we have gone through this problem before and the country did not dissappear. There were no 20 million then ( This is the number that Lou Dobbs like and not 12 million) but proportionally, the number of people coming here legally was about the same in the year that I quoted.
    I hear that they are consuming our resources but I don’t see numbers. Let’s say that you are correct. You send all of them back, what is next?
    Let’s brainstorm here. You see in DC you won’t see, proportionally, a lot of immigrants. As of 2005, 57% were African Americans and 38% White. I don’t see their schools improving. I see a lot of poverty around it. No immigrant are taking their jobs but things don’t get fixed automatically. My point is that not all the issues we face now will suddelny fix a broken system

  203. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:28 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian…you want numbers….watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2RKBxR3BTI

  204. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    This has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with illegal immigration. Our anti-illegal immigration efforts are worked on by people of all races. People of all races are welcome provided they assimilate into the melting pot of America and come here legally. Very simple.

  205. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    Luke,
    I don’t think that when people question the problems that other cultures bring to a society you should be called racist. I mean it happens even in societies where there are some homogeneity. In Costa Rica you indentify the other as Nicaraguans for example.
    Your group however think that other just by the effects of melanine they cannot be with you. Can you pinpoint a specific achievemnt in humanity that can traced to one race?

  206. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Luke,
    WEhat would you do with African Americans after you get rid of all immigrants? Send then to Liberia?

  207. Concerned said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    Italian - some credible estimates of the number of illegal aliens in our country run as high as 30 or 40 million. That’s part of the problem - we don’t know. In any event, I would consider a number from Lou Dobbs more credible than the 12 million estimate, which comes from open-borders Bush and his corporate supporters who want the cheap labor. Do you actually still believe him? Remember, this is coming from a Republican.

  208. Luke said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dear Patriot and Italian, please spend some time at the site I posted. I assure you that every single one of your questions will be answered. The same goes for anyone else. I also suspect that you will be pleasantly surprised, as well as enlightened on the subject of race.

  209. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:42 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick - Jaywalking does not effect the sovereignty of America. The destruction of our borders most assuredly does.

    I think that is the crux of the issue. There are many to whom our borders are just a nuisance. Drug dealers, large corporations, George Bush to name a few.

    To the other 290 Million or so, the borders are worth fighting for.

    And we will.

  210. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:42 pm:
    Flag comment

    This is from a Denver Post article concerning Tom Tancredo’s stance on multiculturalism:
    “In one of two extensive interviews with The Denver Post about his life and career, Tancredo said that immigration - both legal and illegal - is just where the nation’s crisis starts. While some celebrate the country’s multitude of cultures, he sees it as dangerous.

    Immigrants who cling to their language, heritage and loyalties while living in the U.S. threaten to turn the nation into a “Tower of Babel,” he said.

    He rails against what he calls “the cult of multiculturalism,” or “people who are intent upon dividing America up into cultural enclaves, who are intent upon essentially minimizing the importance of Western civilization.”

    Combine that with “massive immigration,” he said, and “25 years from now it will not only determine what kind of a country we are, it will determine whether we are a country.”
    Tom’s position is clear….balkanization is a real danger.

  211. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mr. The Patriot,

    “Italian…the Roman Empire failed because they did just what you said, spread themselves too thin, people did not assimilate, and balkanization occurred. Balkanization was the deal breaker! We need to learn from history…is that not why we take history courses? Nick, you need to choose your words carefully….those “mistakes” that you made are real tricks that liberals use to change the context.”

    Okay, so let’s break this down: you have spent the last few hours sniping from the peanut gallery, writing short, insubstantial ripostes that repeat the irritating “Look with your eyes, listen with your ears” to some of the good substantive arguments lodged against you. Then you catch me, after several posts over a short period of time, making an off-hand and, dare I say, not very important mistake (certainly NOT one of the substance of my argument; am I wrong?) Then you use that as a means of patronizing me and dismissing the substance of my argument. I, as I said, don’t think that I have been using liberal jedi mind tricks or anything like that. This is disappointing, and I am no longer convinced that you are arguing in anything approaching good faith. I have been trying to actually engage with you. You have not extended me the same courtesy. So I guess there’s no more point in conversing, is there? I can anticipate your next post: “See? Liberals always run once you make a good point!” But, sir, you have merely made me tired.

    (You are also substantively wrong about the decline of the Roman Empire. Throughout its history Rome was actually very careful to divide the statutory status of citizenship-which people coveted-from anything approaching cultural “assimilation”, which they very carefully eschewed. They never, for example, mucked around with the status of local religion until well into the Christian period. So, instead of what you are erroneously arguing in order to substantiate your preconceived notions, Rome’s imperial strength-or its ability to maintain order-rested precisely on cultural “balkanization.” After all [and to return to the bible] it’s only AFTER Jesus disturbs local power structures that Pilate gets involved…

    (In fact, the decline of the Roman empire was caused by a complex set of transformations in agrarian relations after the Punic Wars, when, essentially, the Latifundia system was permanently established in the Po river valley after Hannibal had ravaged the small indepedent farmers. This permanently created the conditions that locked Rome into a cycle of imperial expansion to provide slave labor for agriculture and land for conscripts no longer able to get it on the Italian peninsula. As this land-based imperial system expanded away from the Mediterranean, the economy de-monetarized and communications became increasingly difficult. This is why Rome fractured; its mode of imperial control and its mode of imperial expansion were not compatible.

    (Too “big picture”? I would be happy to cite specific sources: Perry Anderson’s “Passages from Antiquity to Feudalism; Michael Mann’s relevant “Sources of Social Power”; Max Weber’s “Agrarian Sociology of Ancient Civilizations.”)

  212. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Luke, I am NOT interested in anything race specific. That is NOT the issue. I am interested in ant-illegal immigration (no matter who is involved).

  213. Italian said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    Luke,
    I don’t read propaganda just science. If I get a sample of your DNA now I can trace you back to Africa. How do you explain that?

  214. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick…when you boil the plight of the Roman Empire down….balkanization occurred. That cannot be denied.

  215. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    “Nick - Jaywalking does not effect the sovereignty of America. The destruction of our borders most assuredly does.”

    Excellent point. I agree that this is essentially the difference. I also strongly agree with your larger diagnosis: this is part of globalization and neoliberalism (a policy begun by Reagan and pursued by Bush, Clinton and Bush the Younger.) And I wholly agree with stronger protectionist measures, protecting labor, etc.

    Where I think we part ways is that I don’t think this is an issue of mexican immigrants (or whomever) invading the country. I think they are here for economic reasons, and perhaps also because they see America as a land of genuine economic opportunity–rightly or wrongly. So why send them back? I don’t think we should necessarily stop labor flows, just regulate them. Hey, instead of putting that local landscaping contractor in jail for hiring illegal immigrants, why not just make sure that he has to pay minimum wage to whoever he does hire, and give them health benefits? Everybody wins, no?

  216. Luke said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot, race is most definitely the issue at hand. Legal or illegal, the 3rd world outcome will be the same, together with the end of Whites.
    Italian, have an open mind and give it a shot. If it is science you want, then science you’ll get. Plus, how do you know it is propaganda since you obviously have never perused the site for any length of time, let alone at all?

  217. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, did you not follow what Senator Jeff Sessions presented during the Senate Amnesty hearings? The cost of illegal immigrants and their families for healthcare, school, foodstamps, WIC, subsidized housing, etc. etc. would could cost trillions of dollars (this does not include enforcement costs).

  218. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:57 pm:
    Flag comment

    Additionally, by not sending them back….a mockery of our rule of law is made and it only encourages more illegal aliens to flood into our country.

  219. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 5:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, I would like for you to say what you said to those that came here legally. I don’t think you would receive a warm response.

  220. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 6:00 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mr. The Patriot,

    “Nick…when you boil the plight of the Roman Empire down….balkanization occurred. That cannot be denied.”

    Jesus. Okay, you got a rise out of me. Do you know how to freaking read? I just posted about how CULTURAL balkanization, in the sense of religious similarity, demanding that everyone speak the same language, etc., is precisely what the Roman Empire DIDN’T do to maintain stability. It did the opposite; aside from people WORKING IN THE ADMINISTRATION and LOCAL ELITES, it was NOT necessary to learn latin, for example.

    What caused the decline of the roman empire “when you boil it down” was ECONOMIC balkanization.

    You might as well say that gingersnaps caused the fall of Rome.

    I mean seriously. The freaking stupid little snarky comments you make don’t mean a damn thing at the end of the day. What the hell is wrong with you? I guess you have just been playing to get a rise out of me. I give up. Game over. Jesus. What a waste of time.

  221. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 6:02 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, do you think the splintering of society actually keeps a society united?

  222. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 6:05 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick, do you disagree with the quote I posted from Tom Tancredo regarding multiculturalism? How can a society be “united” if we are separated into ethnic enclaves which is precisely what multiculturalism strives for?

  223. guadalupe-hidalgo, 1848 said on 22 Jul 2007 at 6:09 pm:
    Flag comment

    Whites will be the minority. The next official language will be Spanish. Viva La Raza. Suck it whitey.

  224. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 6:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick - on the invasion aspect - I guess we will agree to disagree and part as gentlemen.

    I think you may be missing the issue of the wrong that has been done to the American and the documented and legal worker. They have had depressed wages for some time now because of the flood of illegal labor and the unbridled hiring of the same.

    Why throw the landscaper in jail? Because he has been cheating the American taxpayer, keeping jobs away from legal workers and putting an unfair burden on our social system because of greed. Thats why.

    The landscaper - as a symbol - is the reason there are so many illegals here now. I honestly don’t blame the illegal alien as much as the employer.

    The employers who hire illegals are soulless, greedy bastards, no different than their predecessors who used slaves.

    They both use the same excuses and rationale.

  225. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 6:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    Good points, all. And I do think we’ll have to disagree about the imagery of “invasion.” I just don’t think so.

    But on the employers: I think that you’re right; it seems to me a pretty exploitative relationship, even if it represents an improvement from destitution in Mexico.

    But I guess I disagree that it would “send a message” to put people in jail over this, or “send them back” or reward illegal immigration somehow. I guess I’m convinced that if what you want to do is make the situation better, it makes the most sense to simply regulate what now is an ugly, underground labor relationship.

    I guess I’m sensitive to this issue as well because I live in a polyglot, economically, socially, and ethnically diverse part of the country. I’m obviously white, educated, and upper-middle class, but I live among lots of section 8 housing. I’ve also done landscaping for a summer in the Baltimore heat alongside people whom I can only assume were illegal immigrants-poorly educated hispanic men. Sure, it’s not always comfortable, but I simply can’t muster anger over this. I mostly just feel sorry for them and want them to have a better life here. For many, legal immigration is not an option, given their economic constraints and the way institutional immigration currently works.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that I don’t see jailing everyone who’s hired an illegal immigrant as solving the problem. Tighten the borders, sure! Jail the jerks who won’t regulate and pay minimum wage. We’ll have to deal with our food costing more, and our renovations being more expensive, but that’s life. That’ll also help keep illegal immigrants from the other horrible, horrible aspect of all this: the coyotes, who exploit them like hell and often consign them to illegal indentured servitude upon arrival.

  226. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 6:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick

    I am sensitive to the issue as well, having spent quite a while as a sub contractor. I have watched the job place degrade over the years and become little more than a clearing house for illegal labor and greedy contractors.

    I have watched the quality of homes slide and prices skyrocket. Had to deal with the reality of people relieving themselves in the basements - basements to be finished. People who, as we are all well aware, are coming from third world countries with no concept of hygiene or even cognizant of inoculations. These shouldn’t be called construction sites - they should be labeled bi-hazard, contaminated areas.

    I have been unable to really prosper because one cannot compete unless one hires illegals. You will get your balls cut off in the bidding process. So I work for myself and by myself.

    But its a victim less crime, right? Especially to the white collar workers and general contractors. What the hell, the American working stiff has it coming.

  227. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:00 pm:
    Flag comment

    George,

    I certainly appreciate your position, and the pain of the process you describe.

    This is certainly NOT a victimless crime. I think what’s so tragic about it is that it’s a crime where it’s really, really hard to identify the “real” perpetrator. Is it the immigrant, driven by economic imperatives? Is it the contractor, competing for razor-thin margins? Is it even the corporate investor, who will take their money to the most profitable company no matter what? Is it the consumer, who cares about the price tag, and not always craftsmanship? This is what frustrates the hell out of me: everyone loses, but who wins?

    So that’s what I meant when I said it’s hard for me to get angry about this.

  228. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    This discussion has demised into talk of irrelevant historical comparisons, the Roman Empire, and the 3rd world. Bottom line is we have had more than enough of illegals. They are here illegally, are arrogant, and refuse to assimilate. Some people may have had compassion if they marched peacefully, asking for understanding, speaking English, and carrying American flags. Yet the illegals marched during anarchist and socialist holiday, May Day, while our country was and is at war. They wanted to do economic damage. Real patriotism people! Then they chant in Spanish and say the have demands! Mind you, these rallies were always during the week and day hours. Children were pulled out of school to march with their parents, who obviously don’t have a day job and careless about their child’s education.
    Bottom line, it was a sick display of whining and entitlement for which the have no case.

  229. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    Good article on the costs involved: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1523.cfm
    One thing to keep in mind Nick…if people come here illegally…they are not “screened” for criminal background, medical conditions, etc.

  230. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    These two idiots will sell the soul of the country for votes. Check out the article with the link to the racist organization, La Raza at the end:

    Top Democrats woo key Hispanic voters

    By LAURA WIDES-MUNOZ, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

    As they competed Sunday to woo Hispanic voters, Hillary Clinton touted her personal connection to the community while Barack Obama emphasized the intertwined struggles of black and Hispanic Americans.

    Because their platforms are so similar — both support a path to legalization for illegal immigrants, improved border security and universal health care and preschool — the way Clinton and Obama approach Hispanic voters will probably be key in the primary season.

    The candidates spoke before roughly 2,000 Hispanic educators, activists and community and business leaders at the annual conference of the nation’s largest Hispanic civil rights organization, the National Council of La Raza, in Miami Beach.

    Both received strong ovations but were presented in very different settings.

    A relaxed Clinton sat in a turquoise silk jacket for an informal interview with Monica Lozano, publisher of the nation’s largest Spanish-language newspaper, during the event’s signature Latinas Brunch.

    “I told Monica we should talk like we’re two girlfriends, and you just can eavesdrop,” Clinton joked to the audience.

    Asked how her views of Hispanics have been shaped, the New York senator and former first lady recalled registering Hispanic voters in south Texas in 1972.

    And she highlighted her close relationships with prominent Hispanics, including Sen. Bob Mendendez, D-N.J.; her campaign manager, Patricia Solis Doyle; and Dolores Huerta, a longtime activist who helped Cesar Chavez organize farmworkers.

    “It’s not so much reading a briefing book or being handed a policy paper that says this is what you should say when you’re in front of an audience of Latinos,” Clinton said. “It’s who you are and what you believe in.”

    Clinton ended by bringing out a mariachi band and a cake to celebrate the birthday of one of her campaign chairs, former La Raza president Raul Yzaguirre.

    Obama was introduced with his campaign’s reggaeton theme song, a genre that blends Latin and hip hop beats. He cut a more formal presence, standing behind a podium in a dark suit and speaking directly to the crowd before taking questions.

    He linked the civil rights struggles of blacks and Hispanics by quoting a 1968 telegram the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sent Cesar Chavez during Chavez’s 25-day fast on behalf of farmworkers.

    “As brothers in the fight for equality,” Obama quoted, “our separate struggles are really one for freedom, dignity and humanity.”

    That sentiment remains true today, Obama said.

    “If there’s a child stuck in a crumbling school who graduates without ever learning to read, it doesn’t matter if that child is a Latino from Miami or an African-American from Chicago or a white girl from rural Kentucky, she’s still our child, and the struggle is our struggle,” he told the audience.

    The Illinois senator mentioned his work to improve public housing for low-income families in Chicago and his decision to march last year with Hispanic protesters against a stringent immigration bill.

    Both candidates promised to push for comprehensive immigration reform during their first year in office. Both stressed their support for legislation to help qualified high school graduates here illegally to attend college and eventually earn U.S. residency.

    Clinton said she believed both that bill and one to create a path to citizenship for farmworkers still had a chance to pass the current Congress.

    While Democrats are expected to receive the majority of the Hispanic vote, Republicans are not ready to cede the field. On Sunday, Republican hopeful Mitt Romney, who has taken a hard line on immigration, told a crowd of Republican Hispanics that they are “quintessentially American.”

    Romney, fellow Republican candidates Rudy Giuliani and John McCain, and Democratic candidates John Edwards and Bill Richardson were also invited to the four-day La Raza conference but did not attend.

    __

    On the Net:

    National Council of La Raza: http://www.nclr.org/

  231. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick - the bottom line - after listing all the affected parties - is that its against the law. Full stop.

    Developers are hardly up against razor thin margins. Have you noticed with material prices going up and labor pretty static, that they have been able to drop the prices of home hundreds of thousands of dollars now that the market has tanked? What was going for the high 600’s is now in the fours? Now I am all for making all the money you can - that is our system. When you break the law to do it - you are a thief.

    There is plenty of blame to go around.

  232. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick -its hard for me NOT to get angry about this.

  233. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    Obama nd Hillary will sell the soul of this country to get elected:

    Top Democrats woo key Hispanic voters

    By LAURA WIDES-MUNOZ, Associated Press Writer 7 minutes ago

    As they competed Sunday to woo Hispanic voters, Hillary Clinton touted her personal connection to the community while Barack Obama emphasized the intertwined struggles of black and Hispanic Americans.

    Because their platforms are so similar — both support a path to legalization for illegal immigrants, improved border security and universal health care and preschool — the way Clinton and Obama approach Hispanic voters will probably be key in the primary season.

    The candidates spoke before roughly 2,000 Hispanic educators, activists and community and business leaders at the annual conference of the nation’s largest Hispanic civil rights organization, the National Council of La Raza, in Miami Beach.

    Both received strong ovations but were presented in very different settings.

    A relaxed Clinton sat in a turquoise silk jacket for an informal interview with Monica Lozano, publisher of the nation’s largest Spanish-language newspaper, during the event’s signature Latinas Brunch.

    “I told Monica we should talk like we’re two girlfriends, and you just can eavesdrop,” Clinton joked to the audience.

    Asked how her views of Hispanics have been shaped, the New York senator and former first lady recalled registering Hispanic voters in south Texas in 1972.

    And she highlighted her close relationships with prominent Hispanics, including Sen. Bob Mendendez, D-N.J.; her campaign manager, Patricia Solis Doyle; and Dolores Huerta, a longtime activist who helped Cesar Chavez organize farmworkers.

    “It’s not so much reading a briefing book or being handed a policy paper that says this is what you should say when you’re in front of an audience of Latinos,” Clinton said. “It’s who you are and what you believe in.”

    Clinton ended by bringing out a mariachi band and a cake to celebrate the birthday of one of her campaign chairs, former La Raza president Raul Yzaguirre.

    Obama was introduced with his campaign’s reggaeton theme song, a genre that blends Latin and hip hop beats. He cut a more formal presence, standing behind a podium in a dark suit and speaking directly to the crowd before taking questions.

    He linked the civil rights struggles of blacks and Hispanics by quoting a 1968 telegram the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sent Cesar Chavez during Chavez’s 25-day fast on behalf of farmworkers.

    “As brothers in the fight for equality,” Obama quoted, “our separate struggles are really one for freedom, dignity and humanity.”

    That sentiment remains true today, Obama said.

    “If there’s a child stuck in a crumbling school who graduates without ever learning to read, it doesn’t matter if that child is a Latino from Miami or an African-American from Chicago or a white girl from rural Kentucky, she’s still our child, and the struggle is our struggle,” he told the audience.

    The Illinois senator mentioned his work to improve public housing for low-income families in Chicago and his decision to march last year with Hispanic protesters against a stringent immigration bill.

    Both candidates promised to push for comprehensive immigration reform during their first year in office. Both stressed their support for legislation to help qualified high school graduates here illegally to attend college and eventually earn U.S. residency.

    Clinton said she believed both that bill and one to create a path to citizenship for farmworkers still had a chance to pass the current Congress.

    While Democrats are expected to receive the majority of the Hispanic vote, Republicans are not ready to cede the field. On Sunday, Republican hopeful Mitt Romney, who has taken a hard line on immigration, told a crowd of Republican Hispanics that they are “quintessentially American.”

    Romney, fellow Republican candidates Rudy Giuliani and John McCain, and Democratic candidates John Edwards and Bill Richardson were also invited to the four-day La Raza conference but did not attend.

    __

    On the Net:

    National Council of La Raza: http://www.nclr.org/

  234. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    I don’t know whether they disgust me more or the link to the racist La Raza at the end of the article?

  235. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    When I am in the grocery store and see someone that pays for most (if not all) of their “full” cart of food with food stamps and then proceeds to load up their plush Eddie Bauer Expedition with their food and 5 kids….that angers me. Additionally, many of these people then proceed to send lots of money back to their homelands south of the border while living in subsidized housing. This fascinates me.

  236. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Many illegals who skulk across our borders have tuberculosis (TB). That disease had disappeared from America thanks to excellent hygiene and powerful modern drugs such as Isoniazid and Rifampin. TB’s swift, deadly return now is lethal for about 60% of those infected. The culprit is the new Multi-Drug Resistant Tuberculosis (MDR-TB).Until recently MDR-TB was endemic to Mexico.

  237. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben - with the exception of Tancredo and possibly Thompson, I am afraid all involved will sell America’s soul.

    The only thing the rest of the republican candidates would be good for is firing squad back stops.

  238. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:22 pm:
    Flag comment

    George…Thompson is a globalist. Tancredo or Hunter are our only hope.

  239. dolphin_Moon said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nick,

    I was beginning to think you were the most patient man in the world. Now I see you do have your limits. I particularly enjoyed the ‘can’t you freaking read remark.’

    Thank you for your thought-provoking contributions. I think that there are people here who know what they think and establishing meaningful dialog of any sort is just an exercise in futility. Sigh…yes, a cliche…probably I am now a ….echo chambers on…a LIBERAL.

    The immigration problem is a complex issue with no easy answers. I have found that it is real hard to keep up the diatribe when you look people in the face and get to know them. Somehow, the lines between illegal vs legal become very blurry.

    Manassas has some very serious problems. Sadly, I don’t think some of them are fixable. For starters, the average person is clueless as to who is illegal and who is not. If you aren’t an employer, there is simply no way to know. I guess that means everyone gets lumped together. We can howl and carry on about illegals, but it is merely an abstraction until there is a way to verify who is and who is not. I sure don’t see government officials going out of their way to make this determination.

    Dolph

  240. dolphin_Moon said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ben stated that Obama and Hillary would sell the soul of this country to get elected. Could be true. They ARE politicians. However, no mention was made of the fact that George Bush has already sold the soul of this country over this very issue.

    Where is the culpability here? Most of the drastic changes in this area have happened on his watch.

    Dolph

  241. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    Regardless of anything else, illegal aliens are here in violation of federal and state law. Arguments are made that they do jobs that Americans do not want. However, what they really do is potentially displace skilled and unskilled workers because they are willing to work for lower wages and less benefits than those established by the
    federal government.

  242. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dolph, a very simple solution exists. In order to receive social benefits (welfare, WIC, foodstamps, etc.) the adults applying for them must appear in person and provide their legal proof of residency. This information would be then go through a verification database. If the adults cannot provide the documentation their benefits get cut off and they get reported to ICE. Same goes with the ER….if people show up and cannot provide proof of legal residency, they get treated (if an emergency) then handed over to ICE.

  243. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dolph,

    You are exactly right. All these politicians must be fired from office. If they listen to the will of the people, they keep their job, when they don’t good bye. Sort of how this government was intended to work, started by some smart guys 231 years ago….

  244. Ben Franklin said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,

    You hit the nail on the head. The answer is simple and you stated it clearly.

    Thank you.

  245. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:40 pm:
    Flag comment

    Make no mistake…the solution is simple. Cut the gravy train (which is a huge incentive). Once illegal aliens know that they cannot be hired or receive benefits…they will most likely self deport. They are more than welcome to come here legally.

  246. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dolph - consider this, Why do we have laws? Is it to maintain safety and stability so people can live amongst one another?

    Laws are crafted and applicable penalties imposed to enhance the greater good of society. This process is generally done in a sober contemplative manner, with many if not all sides having iput - hence very few instances where capitol punishment is applied.

    Laws are the fabric of a civilized society, since none of us can generally be trusted to do whats best for all.

    When these laws are ignored and flaunted, the fabric begins to rend. Equal protection seems a farce.

    Here is an example, what moral right does a member of law enforcement have giving me a ticket for speeding in a partially constructed sub division, when the construction crews, in plain sight, are undoubtedly illegal? The cop doesn’t know I am speeding unless he monitors me. He also doesn’t know if the workers are illegal - especially if somebody is blocking the monitoring.

    Both infractions are covered by Virginia code. The law enforcement officer is oath bound to enforce Virginia law.

    So what gives?

  247. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    What about the immigrants that DID COME HERE LEGALLY? What about them? Many of them are furious over the illegal alien situation.

  248. dolphin_Moon said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,

    The laws must change for that to happen. It is a good starting point. I do not disagree with you.

    ICE needs to be willing and ready to take lots and lots of people into custody. Do you really think that will happen under the current administration and congress? Does ICE have the resources, the detention centers, and the political clout to really accomplish this? If they do, why haven’t they done it?

    I don’t like supporting myself and about 30 others any better than the next guy. In fact, I will go so far as to say I don’t want to support immigrants of any status. I don’t even want to support non-immigrants who are able to work, pretty much for the same reason I won’t keep lending my brother in law money. I am an equal-opportunity tight-wad, I suppose.

    Dolph

  249. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    Until Bush is removed from office and a competent replacement installed - it will be more of the same.

    The spit bubble blowing head of ICE, Julie Meyers does not have a clue. I would almost be willing to support impeachment if it positively meant getting rid of the appointees.

  250. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dolph, the simple solution is cut the benefits. Once the benefits offices start requiring proof of legal status….how many illegals will show up to collect a check knowing that if they cannot provide the documentation they will be reported to ICE. If they don’t show up….the benefits are cut off. Now as far as actual enforcement….there needs to be “a will” to enforce the laws. Special interest groups and big business have been blocking this. I feel that the elected officials received a wake up call during the Amnesty sessions in the Senate. We must continue to pressure Federal, State, and Local elected officials to start doing their jobs or they will be out during the next vote.

  251. The Patriot said on 22 Jul 2007 at 7:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    It is going to take a Tancredo or Duncan Hunter as President to really shake things up for the better.

  252. guadalupe-hidalgo, 1848 said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    America has become a better place with the 12 to 20 million latinos. In the bad old days Americans felt they were entitled to jobs, they had an entirely too large self opinion. Now that workers have come that can do a better job for cheaper, the typical joe sixpack is forced to prove their worth. That is why they are angry. The common gene pool is being cleaned by these superior brown races.

    It is all for the best, those that have a problem with it are lazy and afraid they will be bested by our more intelligent and physically superior brothers from south of the border.

  253. The Ayatolla of Rack'n'Rolla! said on 22 Jul 2007 at 8:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    Guadalupe,

    Wow. You make the issue quite clear. The United States is being strategically invaded. Know this…You will only go as far as we let you. This country has a long history of surprising those who would do her harm.

  254. jesseS said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    I have read your the Washington Post article as I am sure many others have, and I am quite disturbed.

    It seems you basque in this exposure yet if you are unaware, perhaps the article has portrayed a darker side of you or the real you which is most likely and even more disturbing. However, I am sure there are some biases within the article yet is seemed pretty nuetral to me. It is very unsettling that a simple blogger has convinced many and has only poured fuel on the fire in the anti-immigration debate. It seems you have recently used your influence to destroy opponents’ campaigns and have even shape local public policy. As you crusade against illegal immigrants have you not considered that like you and me they are human and are ONLY here to help provide for their family. If you have not taken notice most illegal immigrants are dealing and struggling with poverty both in the states and in their home countries. I am sure you do not see this insight as you are most likely quite privelaged, yet put yourself in your situation if your family was in need of food, money, and shelter would you not do all you could to help them? Even if it meant the sacrifice of leaving your home, and family and friends to help them. I am sure you would as it is the right thing to do. These immigrants are surely not here for leisure they are working their butts off. Furthermore their jobs benefit everyone in Northern Virginia, who cleans buildings and our houses? serves you at fast food restaurants? who does your landscaping? and lastly who builds our houses? Surely you have not had ANY of this services completed by illegal immigrants, many complain about the housing prices, but sadly many of us would never work for that low of a wage, meaning that for you to pass strict anti immigration laws our house prices would only rise, and many other surface may suffer a price inflation. However, I understand that this is an issue an BIG issue, would it not be more prudent to help these immigrants become LEGAL citizens by passing legislation that made it easier to become as US citizen. Along with this if all of our illegal immigrants were kicked out of the country or prevented from working the US economy would be destroyed prices in all areas would only inflate and there would be a multitude of vacant jobs, jobs that greatly affect the public and our daily lives. Many of us would not be willing to take these hard and laborious jobs as we are to proud to as many would say “stoop down to that level”. In Loudoun County I have become aware of a new attempt to crackdown on illegal residents that involves law inforcement stopping individuals to question them and sadly most of these people will probaly be Hispanic. Let us ask ourselves whether this is right to stop someone for merely being there, even though they may be illegal. What about everyone else the innocent ones, is it right. It seems to me this is a waste of public money and the law enforcement’s time. Should we not be more concerned with more pressing issues.

    Yet, after all I am sure you are not a Native American therefore you are an Immigrant also as am I, most likely I am a much more recent immigrant and I am proud of my families heritage (LATINO). You can deduce whether I am LEGAL or ILLEGAL yet it is neither here nor their as I am a PERSON with a voice and an opinion that matters as does everyones

    I feel this sight is not productive and only harmful to the public yet sadly it seems you have extended your influence upon others and have been able to dictate public law.

    I will be emailing you with concerns and I hope you read this personally and send me a reply I am interested in your response and your thoughts on the issues I brought up.

    Lastly you might delete this and hopefully you do because it will only show how biased you are towards those disagreeing with you.

    I hope the people reading this sight come across this comment and the many other thought provoking ones and condsider this issue and take a stand to save peoples lives and their families.

    We are all human whether we are illegal, a different race or religion, everyone deserves the same treatment and rights, yet in this supposedly “free land” of America it seems this has never been true from Slaves to racism towards African Americans to the Japanese and most recently Illegal Immigrants and Arabics. Now it is time to take a stand against this and protect a persons basic and deserved rights! We will only hurt ourselves.

    Yours truly,
    Jesse S.

  255. onevoice said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    Does anyone know for sure if the children that are illegal are allowed in the schools without proper immunizations? I just heard that it might be true; they can’t be denied education but they don’t have to meet the immunization standards. This should be checked out.

  256. guadalupe-hidalgo, 1848 said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Great comment Jesse S., however I’m afraid that trying to reason with these pathetic creatures is quite useless. It would be like going to Germany in the 1930’s and telling everyone that Jews are people too.

  257. George said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    So guadalupe - why do the noble little brown people speak the language of their oppressors?

    To stupid to know better? To ignorant to learn the language of their ancestors? Or was that just grunting and pointing before the European Spaniards showed up?

    You know, the people who introduced them to the toilets they clean…

  258. anon said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    Looks like the real battle has begun. The gloves are off. I am glad to see we are making real progress. Just a few years ago Delgaudio came out against certain anti illegal groups and their commercials linking illegal aliens and traffic jams in Northern Virginia.

    Now he is fighting illegal aliens.

    Most of the illegals will find the welcome wagon in Fairfax County and Arlington County. These sanctuary cities offer massive free benefits and plenty of housing.

  259. anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:54 pm:
    Flag comment

    By the way, produce will never become as expensive as “$8 tomatoes” (at least for any other reason than massive inflation). Why? If it ever happened that I could get $8 for a tomato (and it weren’t due to inflation) rest assured I’d be growing as many of them as I can..and so would everyone else. Supply meets demand. The price would go down.

    In actuality, of the price you pay for produce, about 10% is labor costs. That means, if my math isn’t off, a ten-fold increase in labor costs would only result in the price of produce doubling.

    I think about the only way you’d ever get an $8 tomato is to have a lawyer pick it.

  260. park'd said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    Again with the comparison of the holocaust with cracking down on illegal aliens. You should be ASHAMED of yourself for even thinking that, yet alone muttering it on an open forum. In Germany you would be arrested for this, and it is also seen as traitorous in the US to compare benign types of things like enforcing laws to the horror of the holocaust. You cheapen your entire belief on this matter when you do that and anyone smart would not want you on their side during a debate if you were to sink to this level. I would have a field day in an open forum with you if you tried to compare the enforcement of US laws that have been on the books for many, many decades to what happened to the Jews during the holocaust. Go ahead and try that crap in public and see what happens. I dare you. You’re billy badass now on a web forum, but in real life I bet you would shred like a dandelion, especially when you saw me coming.

    Sorry all for this type of banter, but I have had enough of these sick SOB’s comparing the holocaust/nazi/hitler to law abiding citizens of the USA trying to enforce immigration laws, stop the escalating crime statistics and clean up trashed out and overcrowded neighborhoods.

  261. anonymous said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    AZTLAN LEADER QUOTES

    “While I am saying this half serious and half joking, I think we are practicing la reconquista in California.”
    ~ Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General, Feb 2002.

    “I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important - a very important - part of this.”
    ~ Ernesto Zedillo, Former President of Mexico, speaking in Chicago, July 23, 1997.

    “Mexico extends beyond its borders.”
    ~ Vicente Fox, Current President of Mexico, speaking to a gathering in Milwaukee in July of 2001

    “California is going to be a Hispanic State and anyone who doesn’t like it should leave. They should go back to Europe.”
    ~ Mario Obledo, President of the Californian Coalition of Hispanic Organisations, June 1998

    “Our devil has pale skin and blue eyes…” “To the gringos in the audience, I have one final message to convey, ‘Up yours, baby. You’ve had it, from now on.’ ”
    ~ Jose Angel Gutierrez, professor, University of Texas.

    “We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population… I love it. They are sh!tting in their pants with fear. I love it…. We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him.”
    ~ Jose Angel Gutierrez, professor, University of Texas.

    “Remember 187 (proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non citizens) was the last gasp of white America in California.”
    ~ Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party in front of 400 cheering Latinos at U.C. Riverside on January 14, 1995.

    “We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos… non-Latinos aren’t watching, they aren’t raising questions”
    ~ Fernando Guerra, professor, Loyola Marymount

    “Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die. .. Through love of having children, we are going to take over.”
    ~ Augustin Cebeda, of the ‘Brown Berets’, a militant Aztlan group at a violent rally in Los Angeles on July 4, 2000.

    “Fair housing agencies report a surge in discrimination by immigrant landlords from many nations who refuse to rent outside their ethnic group.”
    ~ Reported in Los Angeles Times, Nov. 21 2001.

    “In an extraordinary political move, President Vicente Fox has announced the formation of a cabinet level agency to govern, protect and provide services to over 20 million Mexicans now living in Aztlan, a territory encompassing most of the southwest part of the USA. President Fox declared yesterday that he will personally lead the new agency he named “Consejo Nacional para las Comunidades Mexicanas en el Exterior” (National Council for Mexican Communities Abroad). The “Council” will consist of the president, most of the cabinet secretaries and a, as of yet unnamed, representative from Aztlan. This is a bold move that essentially extends the arm of the Mexican government into the territories it previously lost during the Mexican-American War of 1848.”
    ~ Reported in “La Voz de Aztlan”, August 7, 2002.

    “We have Nicaragua, soon we will have El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Mexico. One day, tomorrow or five years or fifteen years from now, we’re going to take 5 to 10 million Mexicans and they are going into Dallas, into El Paso, into Houston, into New Mexico, into San Diego, and each one will have embedded in his mind the idea of killing ten Americans.”
    ~Thomas Borge, Nicaragua Interior Minister as quoted in the Washington Times, March 27, 1985

  262. Nancy Pratt said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    You know reading all these comments with people who think this is anti-Hispanic and others who find it a racist issue. I am concerned that our country is creating an underclass with people with no real rights and yes so many of you think that allowing illegals in is being openminded. I think that even considering allowing this kind of thing to continue is so wrong. Those who want illegal immigration to continue, really feel that allowing a people to come here to be exploited is the way to go. I think they are supporting clandestine slavery. I refuse to be labeled a racist because I oppose this. It is wrong for our country and it is wrong for these people. I think that arguing about urinating on the lawn and things like that are awful but so far below the point that we get lost in a morass of pointing out how horrible these people are. As soon as we do that, then we miss the real point of the dehumanization of the people. they need to go back to there country and stand up for themselves. I am getting frustrated with the Iraqi’s because they are not standing up. I don’t think it is our countries requirement to stand up the dead. We need to support our own people and make sure our poor are taken care of before taking on another countries problems and bringing them here. I am not against the war, but I admit I am getting tired of hearing that the Iraqi’s want to go on vacation while our soldiers are fighting to keep them safe. Just some of my thoughts

  263. guadalupe-hidalgo, 1848 said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    The illegals are here to stay. None of them will be illegal after the next amnesty. White america has become a giant Jerry Springer show. The future of America is brown and prefers tortillas. Suck it Whitey.

  264. Mary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nancy Pratt, the minute you say “I’m not a racist” you’ve lost the argument. You’re letting the open borders proponents control the debate with their favorite tactic. Don’t even go there.

    You need to put THEM on the defensive. For example:

    –Did you know that Mexico is the 13th richest country in the world but only spends 10 percent of its GDP on public social services because its rich ruling class doesn’t pay any taxes? How come you want struggling middle-class Americans to assume a tax burden that rightfully belongs to Mexican citizens like Carlos Slim Helou, now the richest man in the entire world?

    etc. etc.

  265. Mary said on 22 Jul 2007 at 10:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    Guadalupe, your naked racial hatred is pathetic. It’s funny how none of the “tolerant, open-minded” people who came here from the WaPo are commenting on guadalupe’s pathetic and blatant racism.

  266. Advocator said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:00 pm:
    Flag comment

    Since the July 10 resolution, a lot of illegals no longer seem to be living in the flop houses in my neighborhood. Parking spaces are actually available for legal residents. Hopefully, they’ve found folks more tolerant of lawlessness in the Peoples’ Republics of Arlington, Fairfax, and Montgomery.

    Yaul ain’t seen nothin’ yet. I promise you.

  267. dolphin_Moon said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:18 pm:
    Flag comment

    Jesse,

    Thank you for sharing your opinion. I can tell you put a great deal of thought into what you wanted the readers and contributors on this blog to hear.

    I also thank you for your courteousness and civility in discussing what must be an emotional topic. It is good to read another point of view.

    Dolph

  268. Nick W. said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mary,

    “Guadalupe, your naked racial hatred is pathetic. It’s funny how none of the “tolerant, open-minded” people who came here from the WaPo are commenting on guadalupe’s pathetic and blatant racism.”

    Sorry, I was off doing other things. Guadalupe, your rhetoric is sick. But c’mon Mary. This guy’s a clown, and I suspect he’s here in that role. Now care to disclaim the joker from the right here today, i.e., Mr. The Patriot?

    “Did you know that Mexico is the 13th richest country in the world but only spends 10 percent of its GDP on public social services because its rich ruling class doesn’t pay any taxes? How come you want struggling middle-class Americans to assume a tax burden that rightfully belongs to Mexican citizens like Carlos Slim Helou, now the richest man in the entire world?”

    I think that this is shifting the debate. First, the middle class doesn’t universally bear the burden of the poor. You, after all, do benefit from the same social services your taxes pay for. Second, I think that pretty much all of the advocates on the left favor legalizing and naturalizing people who are already here. Which means that they would have to pay the same taxes you do (and would be afforded the same legal protections; something they hardly have now.)

    Oh, and another neat statistic: did you know that the US’ Gini coefficient is only ten percent lower than Mexico’s? (The Gini is a standard measure of income inequality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality. Not really germane, but neat.)

  269. Nancy Pratt said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mary, you make good points, I am still thinking all of this through. There are many threads of things through all of this that as of now, I am trying to prioritize what is going on in my head. I heard today that the illegals are so scared they are going to be leaving in droves and our rental and real estate market will crash. As if that was a good reason to keep them. I am not sure what is the most serious aspect of this. A legal white person could urinate in public also, so I can’t see that as a viable reason for me, unless of course I lived next door to something like that. I just can’t handle these people being exploited by the people who claim to support them. The hypocrisy of that drives me crazy. I have no opposition to Hispanic people coming here and if there is a greater need for their working skills, then open up the legal immigration rolls or maybe companies could register a need list, so they could come here and work, but we would know who they are. I cannot condone making someone who came here illegally gain legal status when there are so many trying to get here legally. That is patently unfair and will ultimately lead to a loss of respect for our laws on all sides. I can’t buy the argument about $8 tomatoes as if that would justify making illegal aliens legal. Also we need to improve our tracking of those who came legally and overstayed their visa’s. The Islamofascists came in that way and how do we track them?

  270. TH said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    Go ahead and don’t get services for illegal aliens, the kids will get them. Either you like it or not the kids are americans. They have the same rights and get the same benfits that your blacks and poor people get.
    How come that all thos skilled workers are fighting for a job with illiterate people? Have you asked yourself that? Blacks wake up because you are next. Some of these people are not racist. I give them that, but they are not used to see different people among thems. I think that is cultural but it is fact. Yesterday I was in a Applebee’s and a white guy with a miserable t-shirt was mad because a well dressed black was talking too loud for him to enjoy his dinner.
    I am a legal immigrant and I am not mad. Of course I am salvadoran. You know what people say when they see me with a tie and a suit? Are you from India? Of course, I cannot be educated of course. if I say that I am educated in the forums, people reply: well a Devry degree doesn’t count. Everything is about namecalling when you don’t get to know a person.
    You know, the first class that I took in this country was American History. You might say that I have assimilated. Sure, I love 24, American Idol, the Sopranos, etc. I think I have a decent command of your language and yes it took me years to get here legally. Am i treated differently? Not. People don’t get used to see someone who is supposed to down, to be above them economically or academically. I will always be brown.
    I don’t agree with Guadalupe saying that we will own this country. That will never happen. You will start to see us competing with Tancredo and Vitter. Maybe not against them but in 30 years or so, you will see our kids getting there. We don’t need to take back the south. Then what are you going to do with your rednecks and black. Do you think that they are trying as hard as the first generation of educated hispanics? I don’t think so.
    We need to start know and stop being politically correct. Again race is not an issue, but cultural diffreneces are. Regardless of what I accomplish here I still like my pupusas and not I don’t plan to go back to El Salvador. My daughter is getting to an ivy League school because here in this country everything is possible. That is why I think is sad that you take you frustrations against the wrong people. At the end you can get rid of all im migrants and you will continue finding multiculturalism.

  271. dolphin_Moon said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:07 am:
    Flag comment

    George and Anonymous,

    Enough! Why would you stoop to that level? Some comments are just best ignored. But oh no, you had to take the bait.

    Do you really think insulting remarks that include all Latino people solves anything? I sure don’t and you certainly do not speak for me. I can’t operate on the principles of hate.

    Dolph

  272. jonny 5 said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:10 am:
    Flag comment

    lol nothing like a lawsuit to straighten out the reactionaries

    i

  273. Had to Say said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:33 am:
    Flag comment

    Why do the Hispanic’s get to have the privilege of being the ones that get to come to America? There are far more people in other county’s that are worse off than the Mexican and South American people, but they seem to think it is their right to be here. People in Darfur are starving and being MURDERED everyday, but since they can not walk over a border they can not come here.

    Let’s talk about diversity. Where is it? When America has to absorb 20 million people of one ethnicity there is no diversity. Diversity is created when many different ethnic groups come together, not just one.

    I’m also tired of hearing the special interest groups call illegal’s, immigrants. Immigrants are people that came to the U.S. LEGALLY. To group the two together is just wrong.

  274. jesseS said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:48 am:
    Flag comment

    dolphin thank you for your comment and guadalupe i thank you for your support. However, I disagree with your analogy as Hitler’s attempt at a so called “ethnic cleansing” was and will always be far worse than the present issue at hand. I also am positive nobody against illegal immigrants is that ruthless. Lastly, I feel that that would do a dishonor to the Jewish people to compare the two events.

    I apologize for that comment even though it was not made by me.

    Alas, another topic I would like to touch base upon is an interest that I have and hopefully many others have in holding some sort of civilized debate on this issue. As it is always beneficial to hear different points of view from both sides of the issue. Perhaps if we get enough people interested GregL would be able to facilitate something like this.

    Lastly, my responses will stay civilized, I am aware that we are all passionate about this issue but it does not help your cause or opinion by attempting to use personal attacks in your diction as I am sure we are all adults or near adults. Personal attacks should be left out as it only hinders your case and is not very nice especially when it deals with race. I am sure everyone of us comes from a different background, yet we all have something important to say.

    Thank you for your opinions and thoughts I hope for more comments

    Yours Truly,
    JesseS

  275. Had to Say said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:01 am:
    Flag comment

    -”hopefully many others have in holding some sort of civilized debate on this issue.”

    The debate has been occuring in different forums over the past several years. Most of it is talk. You think you’re getting somewhere and then the forums stop.

    The bottom line is, the American people are not willing to absorb up to 20 million people who came to our country illegally.

    Go Home! Do it the right way LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

  276. jesseS said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:09 am:
    Flag comment

    Had to say,

    Are you aware of the status of my citzenship? perhaps I am already at home, this is something to consider yet as I said earlier it is neither here nor there. Either way my opinion and anyone else’s would be just as important. Perhaps it is all talk but eventually the issue will be dealt with

    Yours Truly,
    JesseS

  277. AWCheney said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:11 am:
    Flag comment

    TH, you are falling into the trap that has been set by the illegal alien apologists…that this is an anti-immigration issue, when that couldn’t be farther from the truth. NO ONE that I have seen or heard on this issue is against our legal immigrants. On the contrary, there have been numerous overtures by Help Save Manassas for the local LEGAL immigrants to come see what it is really all about and join, if they are so inclined. I, myself, am a naturalized citizen and a member.

    This is absolutely not about race or diversity. The majority of blacks are on the same page with the whites on this issue. Insofar as diversity is concerned, this country has a history of celebrating it, which is as it should be. This is about MILLIONS of people coming into our country illegally, believing themselves to be above the law and demanding that the rights of those who are here legally are subservient to theirs. You will note that it has taken this long for the issue to become as volatile as it is…there comes a time when patience is strained to the breaking point. The incredible arrogance that has grown with their numbers (that this country somehow owes them something and they are merely here to collect) has brought the citizenry, and much of the legal immigrant population, to the point of absolute frustration. There is nothing that can shorten MY fuse faster than frustration!

  278. George said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:17 am:
    Flag comment

    dolph, I never presumed to speak for you. I am speaking solely for myself - answering hate in kind.

    Where it goes from there - I really don’t care. I am a counter puncher and eye gouger - not a diplomat.

    Sorry if I offended any non illegals on this forum.

    For the illegals and guadalupe - screw you.

    Its quite simple.

  279. freedom said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:11 am:
    Flag comment

    Couldn’t agree with you more, AWC….and I believe that the illegal aliens/ apologists understand what you’re saying perfectly well…their only response is to make our position one of “anti-immigrant” (in general) and “racist.”

    I’m really getting a bit weary of those charges. :(

  280. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:31 am:
    Flag comment

    TH said on 22 Jul 2007 at 11:47 pm:

    “We need to start know and stop being politically correct. Again race is not an issue, but cultural diffreneces are.”

    Different races and culture, are not the issue.That’s part of the”American culture.”and makes America a beautiful place. How you enter America is here is the ISSUE, ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL and stealing is stealing.

  281. Restan said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:22 pm:
    Flag comment

    We are undergoing the largest unarmed invasion in history. our social services, schools, hospitals and infrastructure are under an increasingly heavy load. we are having a second language and a foreign culture forced upon us. most illegals are educationally unprepared for anything but day labor. they are unprepared and incapable of contributing to the increasingly technical demands of the global society. each person in this country produces 4.6 pounds of garbage every day. that includes the perhaps 3o million illegals and the hundreds pouring across the border each day. how does that affect global warming? we do not have infinite resources. we cannot feed the world.
    we cannot clothe, house or educate this landslide of humanity. this is true regardless of color or race. the legal immigrants already here will suffer the same fate as the native born population. these are facts.. they have nothing to do with national origin. our president cannot understand the depth or effects of this invasion and the Democrats want more poor and needy for
    votes to keep them in power, since their policies cannot. they are perfectly willing to RUIN the country as long as they can RUN the country. the fence
    will not stop the invasion, it will only slow it. Mexico is moving North and our politicians do not have the guts or foresight to stop it.

  282. John Light said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    The Left used to SCREAM that the organization “English First” was a racist organization against Hispanics. Then, they found out that the leader WAS an Hispanic!!! The Left will do everything in their power to try and change the debate - “this is against immigration”, “this is against diversity”, “THEY want to divide families!!!” NOTHING could be further than the truth.

    PLAIN AND SIMPLE. this debate is about illegals, NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY, entering our land of laws and not obeying. What is sad is that the VAST majority of the posts above were written by people who KNEW Greg was not around and took advantage of the situation by their horrific remarks, comments, and utterly foul language.

    nedlawme attempted to change the topic by going off on the War against Terrorism. All I have to say to her is, she needs to THANK GOD she was not a wife of a soldier during WW II. With millions dying in single battles with NO leave time and tours lasting over 3 years, I don’t think she could have made it. As a veteran, I salute your husband and the work he and his men are doing over there, but with comments like yours, you are doing LITTLE to help our cause.

    Greg…I think WE ALL look forward to your return home but PRAY that you get the rest that you need and deserve. BTW, topic idea - when in Woodbridge the other day (as I was getting cheap gas!!!) I saw a bumper sticker on the back of a car for the United States Army, only thing…it was written in SPANISH!!! Why not Cherokee??? lol. One more thing, the Vikings were actually here PRIOR to the “native American” and when they mapped the land they named it “Vineland.”

  283. Hokie Girl said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    Wow - - I’ve been gone for a while and both sides are pretty heated up. This lefty believes that if you are not here in the US legally…….pack your stuff and go back to your own country and then come back the legal way. Become a taxpayer, keep your money in the US and become a citizen. If you don’t want to do what every law abiding US citizen and legal immigrant does everyday of their lives…….then just stay in your own country. Here is why I’ve change my mind on the issue.

    I’m waiting to find out if I have breast cancer. I had to go to the hospital last week for some tests. I arrive at the hospital early to make sure my paperwork and insurance information was in order. I arrived at my destination 15 minutes early for my appointment.

    Just as they were about to take me back for my first test a Mexican woman comes into the room and says; “Sorry I’m late but you are going to take me now.” The nurse told her that she was late and that she would need to wait until they were finished with me. She started screaming and yelling in English and Spanish that if they did not take her now she would call Richmond and complain, sue the hospital and many other threats. A really big scene insued.

    The decision was made by the hospital administrators to allow this woman to go before me.

    So instead of spending two hours at the hospital I ended up spending over five hours. When I spoke to the hospital administrators to express my issues. I asked them was she a medicare patient. They would not answer based on the HIPPA laws. I told them……”Well at least you know one bill will be paid today.”

    People are concerned about the illegal immigrants being mistreated by the police, hospitals, jails, schools, etc……. What about us the law abiding, legal, hard working, bill paying, and taxpaying citizens of the Commonwealth of Virginia and the other 49 states of this country.

    We the citizens are mistreated when our additional tax dollars go to support illegal immigrants who do not pay taxes. Those additional tax dollars must go to our children’s education, supporting our vetrans, our elderly citizens, and maintaining and updating our state infrastructure.

  284. BL said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    The end of Slavery in the South and the end of Child Labor and the passing of Labor Laws in the North unlashed Innovation and Prosperity and made this Nation rich. The Prosperity of the Nation would never have occurred had we keep the White Slavery in the North and Black Slavery in the South! Currently Illegal Aliens are the 21 Century Slaves! They are being exploited by Business because it is cheaper to hire them and let the Tax payers pay for their benefits than invested in technology. They are being exploited by Democrats under the theory you can never have too many Welfare votes! But in the end the cost of Illegal Aliens is a cost that cannot be sustained. Because most Illegal Aliens are poorly educated they far exceed the amount they contribute society by their Welfare Cost! In addition, their crime rate, school drop rate, Births out of wed lock, percent on Welfare, is outrageous. More Americans Citizens are killed every year than the terrorist have killed in 10 years including 9/11 Plus our military deaths. In addition 10,s of thousands more are raped and robbed by Illegal Aliens each year!

    When we close our Borders and Illegal Aliens start returning to their home countries this Nation will make great improvements in every area!

    1. Our Federal & State Welfare cost will decrease by Billions & our tax Receipts will increase by billions
    2. Our crime & cost, both in money and human suffering will take a Hugh drop down
    3. Our schools will make a great improvement in the education of our children & cost decrease
    4. Innovation will increase
    5. Medical care will improve and cost will go down
    6. Insurance cost will decrease
    7. The increase in wages & the 60 billion currently going out of country now will create a large increase in demand for goods and services & new businesses and expanding business & our economy will soar
    8. Even business that think they must have Slave labor to survive will find they are more profitable & new revenues & sources for profits will increase. (As Henry Ford discovered if he wanted to sell cars he must pay a livable wage so people could afford his cars)
    9. Our standard of living will go up
    10. But maybe the most important benefit will be stopping the influx of Illegal Aliens with their loyally to other Nations & hate for all things American, that if left unchecked will tear our society apart!

  285. park'd said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    Hokie Girl: You will be in my prayers that the tests are negative. I’m also sorry that you had to be thrown to the back of the bus by this obviously racist, perhaps even illegal hispanic woman who thought that the rules didn’t apply to her. The reason these people are in this mess is because of this mindset that they should be given everything for free. The only thing free that I will give them is a ticket back to Mexico.

  286. BL said on 23 Jul 2007 at 9:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Celebrating prematurely the Amnesty & Open Borders Defeat! We won a Battle not the War!
    We must not slack off the recent defeat of that American Unconditional Surrender Bill was only one Battle in a long War for this Nations survival. The good news is Americans are finally waking up but the Hour is late and the Danger is Great!
    Politicians with a few exceptions like Ron Paul could care less about this Nation or its future or Americans Citizens that have played by the Rules, Paid out taxes, Obeyed the Laws, Fought our Wars and built this Nation! They will do or support anything or anyone they think will translate into Money or Votes for them and their Party! Their Lust for Power, Money and Votes transcends any and all loyally to this Nation and American Citizens! Look where all the Democrat Presidential Candidates, Democrat Senators and Many of the Republicans voted on the Amnesty Bill! The good news is Americans are finally waking up! A recent Rasmussen Report on why the Amnesty failed reviled that 84 Percent of Americans think that most of our Politicians will sell their Vote for campaign contributions. One can only wonder what planet the 16% came from that disagreed!
    Any American that makes the effort to study the issues on the Amnesty & Illegal Aliens as per Education level , School drop out rate, Crime rate, Gang rate, Incarnation rate, Births out of Wed-Lock rate, Welfare rate, Disrespect for Laws, Loyally to their home Nation & hate for America, La Raza manifesto, Environmental damage, Pollution, Congestion, Schools and Education, Water, Energy use, Medical care, Third world diseases, Taxes etc. can only reach one inescapable conclusion that the Amnesty bill with our open Borders would have turned this Nation into an Spanish speaking Third World Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Drugs, Poverty, Misery and Cruelly!
    In other words, the same type Society the Illegal Aliens have built in their Home Countries!
    The forces arrayed against the Citizens are formidable! We have the Chamber of Commerce, Business looking for a unlimited supply of cheap labor with costs paid by the tax payers, Many tax supported Spanish org. like La Raza the Racist Hate Org. that helped write the last Amnesty, Latino Governments, Catholic church, The National News Media, Nearly all of the Elected Democrats, Some labor unions, & in all probability the Mexican Drug Cartel. Those forces are supplying 100,s of Millions Dollars to buy Political votes. In addition, we have many Compassion American Citizens that feel the plight of poor people crossing our open Borders, as we all do. But turning this Nation into another Third World Cesspool in the end will hurt not only Americans but the millions of Citizens of the World that still have Immigrating to American legally as a dream that sustains them!
    Opposing them is only ordinary hard working Americans struggling to pay bills and care for their Families. They have watched with increasing alarm as our jobs are outsourced & Illegal Aliens have poured across the open borders to drive down wages in the remaining Jobs that cannot be outsourced. While destroying our Culture and Killing, Raping and Robbing American Citizens by the 10,s of thousands!
    What can we do? In spite of a Majority of American citizens opposed to Amnesty and open borders the defeat of the last bill was carried by a small number of Patriotic Citizens that donated time and money to Originations like numbersusa, fair and others, wrote letters, send faxes and called their Senators and Representatives.
    If we are going to secure the Future of this Nation for our Children and Grandchildren & for Citizens all over the world as a Beacon of Light and Freedom in an increasing dark and dangerous world, more is required!
    All Citizens that realize the Danger that this Nation Faces must get more involved and demand our borders are closed and Immigration laws enforced! For citizens that are uncertain or have mixed feelings need to Educate their selves on the on the issues. I am certain an objective, unbiased study will convince most that Open borders and Amnesty is not in the Best interest of this Nation or indeed the World!
    Make no mistake, the Dark Forces that support Globalization, Open Borders, and One World Order are already plotting behind closed doors how to push their agenda through the next time!

  287. Linda B. said on 23 Jul 2007 at 11:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    I will never understand how those of us who are opposed to illegal immigration are painted as the bigots while those who promote the exploitation Hispanics for cheap labor are viewed as the compassionate ones.

    Yes, $12 Lettuce, I’m talking to you. I’ll happily pay more for groceries, home repairs, lawn service, etc., to know that the people doing the work are being employed legally and are paid a living wage with benefits.

    Why do you think it’s OK to use the illegals? Because they are from the Third World? Because they are brown? Because they don’t know any better? Or is it simply that money is more important to you than people?

  288. Legal2 said on 24 Jul 2007 at 6:34 am:
    Flag comment

    We are painted as bigots because the pro-illegals have no reasonable argument for their defense - typical, but overplayed. So I think it’s a worn record that isn’t as useful to them as it was in the 60’s and is an attempt to shut their opposition up. Thank God, people are more immune to that now.

    BTW, I DO pay up to 3 times more for goods if I can get items made in America (or almost anywhere but Mexico and China). Sometimes I will just do without and move on. So I agree, Linda B, that I’d pay more for goods and services from legal residents (but not support more amnesty just to make them legal).

    Great questions which we need someone to answer:
    “Why do you think it’s OK to use the illegals? Because they are from the Third World? Because they are brown? Because they don’t know any better? Or is it simply that money is more important to you than people?”

  289. Mary said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:04 am:
    Flag comment

    Nick W. wrote: I think that this is shifting the debate.

    Mary replies: You mean like your open borders pals do when you continually throw the race card? You just don’t like being put on the defensive and having your favorite toy taken away from you, do you?

    Nick W. wrote: First, the middle class doesn’t universally bear the burden of the poor. You, after all, do benefit from the same social services your taxes pay for.

    Mary replies: We don’t, when our schools, healthcare, roads, etc. are being monopolized by the illegals. We get social services that are much, MUCH degraded from what they used to be. I am a Mexifornian, please don’t even bother to use that “argument” with me. Nice attempt to defend the fact that middle class Americans should be paying Carlos Slim Helou’s tax bill, though.

    Nick W. Second, I think that pretty much all of the advocates on the left favor legalizing and naturalizing people who are already here. Which means that they would have to pay the same taxes you do (and would be afforded the same legal protections; something they hardly have now.)

    Mary replies: Right, they are going to pay the same 35k a year that my husband and I currently pay just in state and federal income taxes, out of their dishwasher and lawncare jobs? And of course none of them will qualify for earned income tax payments of 5K per year either? Imagine the tax burden of 5k in earned income tax payments for 20 million dishwashers with five kids each. On top of all the “free” social services they would become eligible for if the get citizenship (and more “free” social services to come, once they discover the power of the ballot box, they will vote to help themselves to ever-more “free” services at the expense of native-born Americans). Got anymore cute excuses for forcing the middle class to assume Carlos Slim Helou’s tax burden?

    Nick W wrote: Oh, and another neat statistic: did you know that the US’ Gini coefficient is only ten percent lower than Mexico’s? (The Gini is a standard measure of income inequality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality. Not really germane, but neat.)

    Mary replies: Yup, importing massive poverty from a Third World country will definitely impact a nation’s GINI ratio, as importing 20 million poor people from Mexico and Central America has done to ours. Weird that you somehow seem to think this is the fault of pro-sovereignty conservatives instead of the fault of pro-open-borders liberals who want as many desperately poor people to come to the US as possible.

  290. Mary said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:33 am:
    Flag comment

    Hokie Girl

    I am sorry to tell you this but the globalists do not give a sh*t about us native-born Americans or our healthcare. We are cows to be milked for subsidies for their “cheap” labor and their “cheap” votes, that’s all. If one cow goes down they figure that there are plenty more out there to be milked.

  291. Big Dog said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:00 am:
    Flag comment

    Well Greg, over three hundred postings - no more
    flying under the radar - folks from all over (in every
    sense) now know who you are and where you are on the net.
    This should keep things interesting.

  292. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:36 am:
    Flag comment

    “the globalists do not give a sh*t about us native-born Americans or our healthcare”

    Democrats and neo-cons alike.

  293. cw said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    Looks like we’ll be seeing some comic relief on the board for awhile. Keep up the great work Greg.

  294. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 3:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Let’s say that we get rid of all illegal aliens. What do we plan to do with all those american struggling to pay their bills. They are struggling because they are not ready for this globalized economy. The market won’t get fixed. People will take their businesses abroad rather than paying for expensive labor here. It happens all around the world and the US hasn’t suffered a lot because of the strong economy in the past.
    Some nations learned quickly that you had to find your niche top be successful: sell rubber, start a banking industry, electronics, etc.
    I think that in the past we could afford to do everything but not anymore. We start a trade war with China and we might end up loosing because they own our debt.
    There are places with almost zero immigrants and still you see poverty and misery: Cincinnati and Saint Louis for example. There are delapidated neighborhoods next to houses with pools in Saint Louis. I bring the issue of African Americans but nobody seems to comment about it because it is easier to bash illegal immigrants. Have you read freakonomics? It is easier to get rid of the old fellows that black participants in TV shows because of political correctness.
    Ther are blacks in south Chicago that have never being in downtown Chicag
    We will have to deal with all those problems and I don’t see the market solving them. Or you think that the schools of DC will get fixed once you don’t see immigrants. How about prostituion in the country capital? There are some cities in the country without a lot of immigrants but you still find gangs?
    How about the folk, Luke, in this blog, proposing a country just for whites? I know that a lot of you oppose to these wackos but these are our issues: poverty and ignorance

  295. BL said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:02 pm:
    Flag comment

    Insecure Borders: Let’s Give Blame Where Blame Is Due

    By Peter Gadiel

    For five years, members of 9/11 Families for a Secure America have lobbied in Washington and in many state capitols for immigration law enforcement and secure borders. The opponents of our goals are many throughout Congress and elsewhere, but during this period the most powerful of them has been that individual with the sole authority to require the federal government to enforce these laws and who, by his refusal to do so, has made that government a co-conspirator in undermining the security of this Nation. That person is of course, George Bush.

    As chief of the Executive Branch he has under the Constitution not only the sole power but the duty to enforce the laws of our country, a duty he refuses to honor. He thumbs his nose at the obligations imposed on him by the Constitution, which, in the name of the God he claims to worship, he has sworn to uphold. Since the people of the United States have no recourse through the court system to make him enforce the law, he alone has the power to decide that illegal aliens will be permitted to prey on Americans, and he has made that decision.

    The harm that George Bush has done to this country is seen by many but felt most severely by those who have been the victims of crimes committed by illegal alien criminals, many of whom, after all, are in the United States due to Bush’s refusal to enforce federal laws already on the books.

    The president’s efforts to undermine the collective security of the Nation and the individual security of citizens have caused many to ask: “Why does Bush allow illegal aliens, every one a law breaker, to enter the United States freely? Why does he refuse to enforce existing law and to allow terrorists, violent felons and drug smugglers full access to their intended American victims? Why does he continuously ignore the Constitution and the oath he swore to uphold it? Why doesn’t he care about Americans suffering as a result of depressed wages and working conditions, or about the Americans who have been the victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens?”

    I have been meeting such victims and families for almost six years. As time passes I’ve grown more disturbed by what the Bush malfeasance indicates about his character. In part this is so because I meet ever more victims and see the list of victims grow longer. But there is another list that is also growing and this too affects my view of the man: the number of elected officials I have spoken with who, because of their positions in the government, have had one-on-one conversations with the president and who insist he is fully aware of the crimes inflicted by his illegal alien friends. There was a time when I gave Mr. Bush the benefit of the doubt; I believed he was insulated from the facts…that he didn’t know what was happening in the states. But now I grasp the truth: He does know. He doesn’t care: What kind of man must this be?

    But as to George Bush (and many other elected officials and bureaucrats) I have come to realize my original appraisal was wrong. His actions since 9/11 have, for me, established that he lacks concern for the lives of individual Americans. Three thousand people died on 9/11, but since that day far more than three thousand have been killed, individually or in small groups, by illegal aliens. And still he refuses to enforce the laws that would end the killing. Thousands of Americans have been killed in intentional murders, or as ‘by-products’ of robberies, rapes, beatings or auto accidents caused by drunken illegals driving automobiles. Thousands more lives have not been ended but have nevertheless been shattered by acts of violence short of murder, such as child molestation. (The Bush Administration makes a proper accounting of these crimes impossible by virtue of its refusal to require local police to inquire into the illegal status of those arrested.)

    That George Bush’s refusal to enforce the laws of this Nation has been the direct cause of these Americans’ death and suffering is simply beyond dispute. He and the Tony Snows and Michael Chertoffs he hires can protest all they want about the “impossibility” of securing our borders. He and they can pretend to be merely incompetent for only so long before Americans wake up and realize they’re not just incompetent, they are misrepresenting the truth.

    To the many who wonder why Bush is doing what he’s doing, I offer some advice. For a long time I wondered too. Finally, I realized the futility of spending another moment on this imponderable. The reason why doesn’t matter. The fact that it is so is all that matters. But for those who need to have an answer as to the ‘why’ of the Bush actions I suggest you look at the motives of others who have betrayed our country: ideology, revenge, greed.

    One or more of these pretexts must be what Bush employs in his own mind to justify his tolerance of violence and death. In that sense he is undoubtedly conventional, typical of his breed. But in one respect Mr. Bush has carved out a place that is unique among corrupt politicians. In his obsession to pass his amnesty, a major tool in the permanent elimination of our borders, he offered what amounted to a bribe, in public, to members of the US Senate, telling them that if they would vote for his amnesty bill he would provide 4.5 billion dollars to build the border fence that a 2005 federal law he signed required to be built. In those two years Mr. Bush has managed to get only a few miles of that fence built, but suddenly he saw that enforcement of this federal law could be used as a payoff to be offered to Senators to vote for his amnesty. Presto, he promises to come up with four and a half billion to build it.

    Of course Mr. Bush is far from the first politician to engage in illegal or immoral behavior. But it is customary for politicians to try and keep their corruption a secret. For example, Boss Tweed of New York; Sen. Tom Dodd (father of the current Sen. Dodd) of Connecticut, Ted Kennedy. These bribe takers, philanderers, drunk drivers and lady killers at least tried to keep their crimes hidden from the public. As reprehensible as they were or are, they at least comprehended that their actions deviated from the norm and felt sufficient concern for public opinion that they didn’t want their crimes exposed. Mr. Bush appears to be unique in this regard, for either he lacks awareness that his behavior is wrong, or his contempt for the people of the United States is so absolute that he is doesn’t care that we see him offering bribes.

    Naturally, when corrupt politicians are discussed Bill and Hillary Clinton cannot be ignored: Whitewater; cattle futures; Travelgate; Vince Foster; pardons for Susan McDougal, Puerto Rican terrorists, and Marc Rich; questioning the meaning of the word “is.” We also cannot forget that for eight years prior to September 11, while Moslem terrorists escalated their attacks against the United States these co-Presidents successfully schemed to avoid dealing with terrorism by sweeping it under the rug for their successor. These are the two who paved the way for September 11 by their refusal to respond with sufficient force to the numerous terrorist acts that occurred during their presidency: the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, the embassy bombings, the Mogadishu atrocities, the bombing of the USS Cole, etc. By their inaction they encouraged and permitted the growth of the power of binLadin. Ultimately, the greatest responsibility for September 11 lies not with Bush but with the Clintons.

    Yet it is George Bush who has been in office for six years after the murders of 3000 on 9/11. It is he who has been president since then as crimes by illegals have killed thousands more. It is possible to excuse the inaction of the Clintons as opportunistic passing of the buck to their successor in the White House. But George Bush cannot claim that excuse. The resulting damage was obvious for all to see. He cannot claim ignorance. He cannot avoid his guilt. Yet, he marches on, completely dismissing the blood that is spilled and the pain that results from his refusal to act.

    It is useless to speculate about “why” he permits these crimes. So to those who continue to wonder, my advice is: don’t waste another moment of thought on the matter. Use your energy to contact your members of Congress, your governor, state legislators. Then contact them again, and then again. Educate your friends and enlist them in the cause of immigration reform.

    Elected officials do respond to pressure from constituents. You have power, but only if you use it by communicating repeatedly with them. The richly funded campaigns of LaRaza, Chamber of Commerce, Ford Foundation, bankers, lawyers, et al., to open our borders succeed precisely because they make themselves heard while others remain silent. Your silence in the face of their campaigns is as powerful an ally of the open borders lobby as the open borders lobbyists themselves. So, make yourselves heard. You have a voice. Use it.

    # #

  296. Legal2 said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:22 pm:
    Flag comment

    BL - wonderful article! We MUST keep the momentum going, stay focused and heard. The threats of extortion of the pro-illegal aliens will no longer work for them. It’s old. It’s worn. We are moving on for restoration of the law and order which our Constitution provided for 200 years. Legal immigration, yes! Amnesty, no!

  297. Pissed Off White American said on 25 Jul 2007 at 8:47 am:
    Flag comment

    For the idiot that thinks lettuce will go to $12 a head without millions of mexzoid, illegal aliens destorying our country….Take an economics class, dolt.

    Besides, why in the hell do we need illegal aliens when we have 40 million negroes in this country that are sitting on their arses collecting welfare or committing crime. I say send the mexzoids back to Mexico and put chains back on the negroes. Two problems solved.

  298. Mary said on 25 Jul 2007 at 9:38 am:
    Flag comment

    A Moby troll, probably a WaPo liberal in disguise. Sorry, that tactic is old too.

  299. AWCheney said on 25 Jul 2007 at 3:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    What do you want to bet that the pro-illegal alien side will select the previous, obviously racist comment to quote rather than the multitude of reasoned, rational comments that exist on the subject? POWA is just as much a caricature as those such as “Proud Mexican Living In America The Beautiful” who threatens us with what he calls “THE MEXICAN RETAKEVOLUTION.”

  300. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    AWCheney,
    You expressed my concern as well. I will say, and live by, THE TRUTH ALWAYS COMES OUT~ No matter how may times you wash it. It may not be on what I consider “my time” but ” God’s time” and yes, that is a relgious statment (my belief, but has not failed me. :) PEACE :)

    GREG,
    If your like me, this has got to be driving you CRAZY, not being able to be right in the mix of what, now seems to be YOUR time and also trying to enjoy your family’s vacation, but again, what I just stated above, TRUTH COMES OUT, just like they say, timing is everything, what comes around goes around, things happen for a reason……ENJOY, ENJOY, your vacation, I think we have things covered here and you are smiling where you are at.

  301. NY harbor arrival '51 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 1:03 am:
    Flag comment

    It’s amazing. My comment written half an hour ago regarding the Spaniards and Mexicans coming to, and settling, parts of America before the Mayflower arrived showed up immediatedly, and now it’s gone. Curious, indeed!

  302. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:29 am:
    Flag comment

    Maybe NYha’51, it’s because you put it under “The Aftermath” thread instead of this one. You are looking in the wrong place.

  303. Mary said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:01 am:
    Flag comment

    AW Cheney,

    “Proud White American” is a Moby. A Moby is a left-winger who goes on conservative blogs and pretends to be a conservative and then spouts extremist rhetoric to make the conservative blog look bad. This was a tactic advocated by the rock star called “Moby” — that is why such people are called Moby.

    Mobys are very easy to spot, because they talk in caricatures of what they think “redneck” Americans talk like. They themselves do not know any “rednecks” or “crackers” or “white trash” and are hopeless at trying to immitate their speech patterns.

  304. Pissed Off White American said on 26 Jul 2007 at 6:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    If you were referring to me, I’m not a f***** “moby”. And I didn’t say I was a “Proud White American” I said I was a “PISSED OFF WHITE AMERICAN”.

    Lastly, I would like someone to explain to me why we need 20 million guest workers when we have more than enough lazy americans sitting on their collective arses collecting federal assistance subsidized by us hard working people.

    PS - Anyone that has a problem with this obvious truth can go **** themselves.

    [Ed note: comment edited.]

  305. Nono said on 26 Jul 2007 at 9:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    The way I see it, I’m fitting that mold of what our founding fathers wanted, which was for someone to come, have a new beginning and fight oppresion.

  306. TH said on 27 Jul 2007 at 10:21 am:
    Flag comment

    Pissed Off White American
    You have a point. I think the reason why the race issue is not discussed in this forum is to be politically correct. It is OK to demonize aliens who have not rights in this country rather than talking about all the individuals enjoying welfare.
    You are subsidizing that! You are allowing people to stay at home. I understand it when you are sick.
    People complain when the see the WAPO publishing a story on immigrants but how about that story of the Black Man.
    If you say something about that people react but when you criticize the same things about illegal immigrants you are protecting your country. Illegaly here but at least they work. You have a group of individuals in the shadows of your big cities. You see them when hurricanes or disasters affect you.
    I don’t think that is racist. Are you against the war on the middle class then stand up to whatever attacks you.

  307. Mary said on 27 Jul 2007 at 11:10 am:
    Flag comment

    Nono:

    If you are on the side of illegal aliens, YOU are the oppressor, not the one fighting it.

    –You are in favor of stealing citizenship rights from native-born Americans and legal immigrants. I have paid taxes to our federal “government” for 30 years to protect my citizenship rights — how do you justify stealing my citizenship rights from me when I have paid probably $200,000 or more for them over the course of my working life?

    –You are in favor of giving Mexico (a corrupt, drug-gang controlled, third world country with the sixth highest murder rate in the world) more say in the political affairs of our sovereign nation (they already have way too much influence over us as it is — amnesty for illegals will just give them more.)

    –You are in favor of putting the “rights” of foreigners ahead of the rights of American citizens who fought, bled and died for their nation’s sovereignty.

    Oppressor, not a fighter of oppression. And, as I am one of the native-born American people you are oppressing, don’t expect any sympathy from me.

    POWA:

    If you are not a Moby, why do you use racial slurs like you did in your first post? It doesn’t help your cause at all.

    I agree that there are plenty of native-born Americans and legal immigrants who can do the work of the illegals. We don’t need them at all, they are the ones who need US.

  308. Dennis Carr said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:20 am:
    Flag comment

    I can’t possibly read all comments, I don’t need to, I live in Carpentersville, Il and see all the problems on a daily basis. Ten year olds calling me Gringo! Their parents taught them this hate filled message and tomorrow they will be driving cars without insurance. Law means nothing to foriegners. Only the American citizen obeys laws and the illegal’s flaunt them.

  309. Bloodstone said on 30 Jul 2007 at 5:57 pm:
    Flag comment

    This is my first look at this BLOG and I am NOT impressed. I probably will not be a regular visitory. I see a lot of names like “Ben Franklin” and “Patriot” but when I read their entries, I don’t read the wisdom of Ben Franklin nor do I see Patriotism. Instead, I see hate venom, bigotry and rampant NATIONALISM.

    There really is a great difference between patriotism and nationalism. Patriots love their country and are willing to give their lives to defend the flag, the nation and the Constitution from all who would do them harm, both foreign and domestic. Nationalists, on the other hand believe that their country is the most powerful country in the world and the only one that matters. Nationalistic citizens believe they are the best, the toughest, the strongest, the most intelligent, the most favored by God, alway right no matter what they do or say or how many innocent people they harm, torture or kill.

    Patriots strive to do what is good not only for their nation but also for the world community of which they are a part. Nationalists on the other hand could care less about the rest of the world. They want to impose their views, beliefs, religion and way of living on the rest of the world usually by force and with guns and bayonets. They believe “Might Makes Right” and they have no room for compassion for those who live in other countries that lack the advantages and benefits of their own country or for people whose views differ from theirs.

    Nationalists are willing to invade other nations to steal their natural resources so that their own standard of living is not lowered. They see those who differ with them as enimical to what they want to do and are quick to call people who hold different views from their own “Traitors,” “Bleeding-heart liberals,” “leftists” and “scum.” They use pejorative terms to make ad hominem attacks on those with whom they disagree. They are happy to put a jack-boot on a weaker person’s head and to “keep them in their place.” Nationalists masquerade as patriots by displaying their nation’s flag, often in the same manner as sports pendants are displayed waving from both sides of their speeding pickup trucks, yellow ribbons proclaiming “Support Our Troops,” and T-shirts proclaiming “Kill Them All! Let God Sort Them Out.” The frequently have bumper stickers that say, “My Kid Can Kick Your Honor Student’s Ass!”

    Nationalists seldom volunteer for military duty but may join local militias where they can play soldier in the woods. When asked if they will join and go to Iraq, most have other priorities for their lives because for nationalists it is all about “ME.” Nationalists don’t seek to unite and are not willing to negotiate because that would be sign of “weakness.” They might claim to be “uniters” but they really like division because that causes strife which they enjoy sitting at their computers and adding fuel to for the conflagration they hope will come. Most of their comments are sophmoric and appeal to base emotions. Nationalists love war if they can run it and never see the blood, guts or enemy up close and never have to dodge bullets or risk their own lives. They enjoy seeing others fight and die in their place but they seldom are willing to risk it all. Nationalists are full of bravado and machismo but like most bullies they are basically all mouth and with little in the brain department.

    I sympathize with the wife of the Army Captain who has been sent for repeated tours to Iraq while all this BLOG does is try to cause strife in this country against a segment of society who mostly want to work, earn a living and improve the lives of their family members. Has anyone ever looked at the number of Hispanic surnames that are on the rolls of the Killed In Iraq War? Many of these people died without ever gaining US citizenship but unlike the Nationalists, they were willing to fight and die for America…That is PATRIOTISM.

  310. Mary said on 5 Aug 2007 at 1:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    You appear to be a confused individual, Bloodstone. Defending our country against a foreign invasion doesn’t have anything to do with the Iraq war or “forcing our ways on other countries. ”

    In this case we have one country in particular — Mexico — that is determined to force its ways on the US — and we have American people, i.e. patriots, who are fighting to restore our sovereignty and right of self-determination.

    That is the essence of the issue.

    Babbling on about the evils of “Nationalism” really isn’t germane to the discussion.

    PS — Mexico is one of the most nationalistic nations under the sun. You should try reading the lyrics of their national anthem sometime.

Comments are closed.


Views: 8734