Driving liberals, dhimmis and illegal alien apologists absolutely insane since 2005...

The Aftermath

By Greg L | 23 July 2007 | Blogs, Prince William County | 376 Comments

I’ve been checking in from time to time to see the reaction from the Washington Post article, and it’s been somewhat surreal.  The website got about ten times the normal weekday traffic on Sunday, and the previous post which mentioned that I was getting some coverage recorded a record number of comments, many from folks who I would never imagine coming to visit.  I’m kind of flooded with emails, one of which was from the producer of the Anderson Cooper 360 show on CNN which I’ll probably connect with when I get back from vacation.  Please be patient if you’re one of those folks looking for a response, as I’m still on vacation this week and am trying not to be in front of a keyboard the whole time.

By the way, has anyone seen Fox News recently?  I thought the issue of illegal aliens was something they were talking about from time to time.  So far I’ve been on the local television affiliates, the regional newspapers, and MSNBC and perhaps CNN.  The interest I’m seeing on the illegal alien issue so far has entirely been coming from those whom I would not have expected to pay all that much attention to grass-roots efforts in this area, and those who I would expect would want to do coverage on this have been surprisingly quiet on what’s been happening in Prince William County lately.  Chris Plante on WMAL is the only conservative I’ve talked to.


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  1. Jeff said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:41 am:
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    Mickey Kaus’ blog Kausfiles wrote about Fox News not covering the immigration battle last month. He believes that Fox News is very supportive of President Bush. The Bush administration favored comprehensive immigration legislation, so Fox News underplayed coverage of the immigration controversy. Kaus was strongly against the comprehensive immigration bill.

  2. OPDitch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:57 am:
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    Greg, I was driving to MD yesterday, listinging to WTOP news and low and behold, they covered “Greg Letiecq and the illegal immigration issue.” They were picking it up from the WashPo article. You’re right, it is strange that FoxNews is not picking it up, Kaus might be on to something.

  3. Anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 7:59 am:
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    Greg ~ As a mom and a wife to someone who works way too much, I can appreciate how torn you are trying to put this aside for a week and concentrate on your family and the beach. This isn’t going anywhere. Try to clear your mind and enjoy your family vacation. Step away from the laptop…go build some sandcastles. Keep your wife happy. It will serve you well when you return to real life.

    Thanks for all you’re doing for PWC. I appreciate your efforts.

  4. William Fitzgibbon said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:03 am:
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    The illegal alien problem has been building for some time now. Our government has let it get out of hand, by doing nothing. The currently elected government is aware of the illegal alien problem. Now is the time for these elected officials to stand up and do something or be voted out of office.

    I’ve been writing the PWC Board to let them know that I support the resolution to limit PWC services to illegal aliens. I’ve also written the Lt. Governor with the same message. My next step is to work on the Virginia congressmen and representatives. I’m doing this because the problem needs attention on all three levels. Local government (e.g. city and county) can cut off services for illegal aliens without state or federal approval. This can be done now – going through a legal process. State government can cut off services to illegal aliens and work with local and federal governments to send the illegal aliens back to their country of origin. The state government changes may lag behind local government changes due to the need to coordinate with more citizens. The federal government can cut off services to illegal aliens. This will move more slowly due to national politics, special interest, etc. (big government).

    Local government service cut off would include, checking the status of all who apply and if the people seeking city/county services are illegal alien, the service is denied. Further if the information on the application for service were stored in a database and shared with the state it would assist the state government to act in a similar manner. Local services in clued, and not limited to, registrations of cars for county stickers, registration for schools, registration for health services, registration for unemployment, etc. By the way, governments need to declare English as the official business language and stop printing forms/information in other languages. PWC employees need to be trained in this new approach in doing business to ensure that business is conducted in a consistent manner for all people. Failure to conduct business in this manner must have accountability and consequences.

    State government service cut off would include, checking the status of all who apply and if the people seeking state services are illegal alien, the service is denied. Further if the information on the application for service were stored in a database and shared with local governments it would assist the local governments to act in a similar manner. State services in clued, and not limited to, state registration of cars, getting a VA driver’s license, registration for state colleges/universities, registration for health services, registration for unemployment, etc. Virginia employees need to be trained in this new approach in doing business to ensure that business is conducted in a consistent manner for all people. Failure to conduct business in this manner must have accountability and consequences.

    Federal government service cut off would include, checking the status of all who apply and if the people seeking federal services are illegal alien, the service is denied. This would include, and not limited to, social security, student assistance, passports, assistance to buy homes, etc. Federal employees need to be trained in this new approach in doing business to ensure that business is conducted in a consistent manner for all people. Failure to conduct business in this manner must have accountability and consequences.
    Please understand that by doing business in this manner is not a violation of our laws or founding principles. It does not focus on potential legal immigrants from any country or people of any color or religious grouping. The data collected on each of these processes could be used to assist all levels and document repeat offenders.

    This country was founded by immigrants – legal immigrants. Legal immigrants are always welcome. Illegal aliens (commonly and inappropriately referred to as illegal immigrants) are not welcome. They are here in violation of United States laws; they have no rights and not right to receive services provided by our government (local, state or federal).

    Please know I totally support you on this. It is good to know that we have such outstanding citizens in Prince William County. As things move forward, let me know how I can make the best use of my time to support this effort. Thank you for all you do. Together, we can do this – together we can do anything.

  5. Advocator said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:10 am:
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    The MSM serves a coupla purposes of the liberal agenda. First, it’s an intelligence gathering asset. You revealed to them your home, family, business, etc. Now the opposition knows that information. Conservative meda has no interest in finding that stuff out, because it’s not a lackey for the those who deal in character assasination and worse.

    Next, the effort of MSM will be to discredit you personally and professionally. W/P already started that effort with the first paragraph of its “story.” Conservative media has no interest in doing that to you, consequently you have not yet hit its radar screen.

    I would advise being very circumspect in dealing with MSM. Their job is to serve the interest of the Liberal agenda, not report news. The liberals right now are feeling warm piss run down their legs and into their tassled loafers. They’re scared to death of a real grass roots bus that’s warming up and they know that once you let the clutch out they might get run over. So their press is gearing up to destroy you.

    Good luck, enjoy the beach. Watch out for sharks in and out of the H2O.

  6. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:11 am:
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    Greg, Enjoy your vacation and I am so proud to be a member of Help Save Manassas. YOU ROCK!

  7. Legal2 said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:25 am:
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    WF: I wholeheartedly agree. BTW, what about limiting “citizens” time to actual citizens. Can the sheriff clear people before they sign up to speak? Also, re outside advocacy groups (some pro-illegal people spoke at the BOCS who were from other counties or outside the Commonwealth) - Is it too much to expect that local citizens determine local policy?

  8. sandy said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:33 am:
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    Where do these immigration orginzations receive their money.for example [ Nancy Lyall time away from work] “La Raza”.” Mexico without Borders?”

  9. Harry said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:53 am:
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    As Chief Deane noted there will be unintended consequences to the cut off of county services, here’s another one: Illegals won’t be able to use the land fill so they’ll just dump tthe garbage and construction waste along the side of the road. This immigration thing has many issues like this that need to be well thought out. Unfortunately the BOCS rarely think anything out, just look for sound bites and what do I need to say to ensure reelection and sucking at the public trough.

  10. anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 9:06 am:
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    “they’ll just dump tthe garbage and construction waste along the side of the road.”

    That isn’t happening now?

  11. OPDitch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 9:50 am:
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    Right, I think a lot of stupid legals do it alredy, so don’t waste any time on the “nits” BOCS should go for the jugular!

  12. OPDitch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 9:50 am:
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  13. James Young said on 23 Jul 2007 at 10:03 am:
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    You’ve been tagged.


  14. R.Schmidt said on 23 Jul 2007 at 10:06 am:
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    From the land of Qz.

    Greg, just found your site and have read a little on your efforts.
    Good work! It is strange that people do not know what an illegal alien is! They sneak into your house, want to be fed, given service and treated as family. There is a front door. As a earlier comment noted…there are bad people out there….and as I told my brother while he was in Afghanistan, “Stay safe and keep your head down”.

    Enjoy the beach and family.

  15. Mark W. Weaver said on 23 Jul 2007 at 11:07 am:
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    I echo the sentiments of Anonymous who encouraged you to truly enjoy your vacation. We all love reading your blog, but we can suffer through a few days without it.

    Your family really needs you. We will survive, and everything will still be here when you get back.

    Enjoy your time. Go love on your wife and kids.


  16. anon said on 23 Jul 2007 at 11:11 am:
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    Be careful, the majority of the liberal press is owned by the conservative right. Both want to make money, regardless of what they “believe”. Don’t become their newest revenue stream.

    You are on track, avoid labels, generalities or seeking “party” endorsement and you will suceed with a strong following of people identified simply as Americans.

    This is not a partisan issue — you are blowing all sides away on this one becuase there are no sides. There is only what is right.

  17. Terry M said on 23 Jul 2007 at 11:19 am:
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    Well, now I finally know what you look like for sure. Explains a lot of your anti-gay positions… ;-) You’d be hot if you weren’t so ugly on the inside.

    I’m surprised you allowed them to publish a picture of your daughter, especially after all the concern and accusations about family risk thrown around last year. Aren’t you a little concerned about becoming such a public and now visible target??

    PS: That picture of the two of you reminded me a lot of the ones Jeff Dion had of him and his kids. Hmmmmmm.

  18. Loudoun Insider said on 23 Jul 2007 at 11:31 am:
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    That’s pretty foul, Terry.

  19. Dee R said on 23 Jul 2007 at 11:54 am:
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    Be careful what you wish for Loudoun County! (and the rest of Northern Virginia) Before you know it the rich b—— will be raising their own kids and cleaning their own 5 bedroom 4 ½ bathroom homes! Who will do their weekly manicures and pedicures? Loudoun men, horror of horrors, you will be forced to give up your tee times to care for your lawns! We may all starve when the restaurant kitchen help gets booted back to Central America!
    Delgaudio’s comments are very amusing. If Loudoun County (the wealthiest in the US) can’t afford services for illegals then who the hell can? The reason they are here is precisely because Loudon County (and Norhern Virginia) is so wealthy. Go to western PA or eastern Ohio or any other place in the “rust belt” and see how many illegal aliens are around. You can actually speak to Native Born Americans working at McDonalds there! They think foreigners are 2nd generation Italians and Polish!
    Isn’t it ironic that the developer-owned politicians are suddenly brave enough to rid the county of illegal immigrants just when the housing market is depressed and all that cheap illegal construction labor is no longer needed (for now).

    There is a price to be paid for our regional wealth and our indulgent lifestyles. Unfortunately, working class Americans pay a much higher price when their neighborhoods are destroyed and their wages are deflated. If the illegal immigrants are not forced to go home, then let’s pass luxury taxes on the rich and the developers to pay for the costs of all the cheap labor they benefit from.

  20. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 11:58 am:
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    Dee, everything will be just fine. Afterall, people are more than welcome to come back….LEGALLY.

  21. Onan the Barbarian said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:02 pm:
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    Maybe one of you can help me out. My neighbor across the street has a lot of people living in his house. It’s him and his wife, and at least one adult kid, who lives there with his kids too. And then there’s another adult with kids who comes and goes. They have vehicles parked all over–two in the driveway, a couple more in the street, one old one packed into a garage that’s mostly filled with crap. All day long there’s kids running around all over the place making noise, and this guy hardly has time for yardwork. Place looks like crap.

    Here’s my conundrum. He’s white. So is it OK to complain about him, or am I just supposed to care if it’s brown people who talk funny doing the same thing?

  22. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:21 pm:
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    Onan, if he is breaking county ordinances…by all means report him!

  23. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:22 pm:
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    Maybe he is illegal too!

  24. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:24 pm:
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    Illegals come in all colors. The Australian that was recently deported was here illegally! He was and should have been deported. So quit making a race issue out of all this.

  25. Dee R said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:33 pm:
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    Patriot, I agree with you that illegals should return home and come back legally. However, you may have missed my point. This area demands cheap labor for the low-skilled work around here, and the reason we get this labor cheap is BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL!! The price will be paid one way or another. If low-skilled workers are here legally (whether they come from El Salvador or Arkansas) more will be paid for restaurant meals, lawn services, housecleaning and construction help. This is just an economic fact of life.

  26. Lafayette said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:38 pm:
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    If you are for real, you would call on the violations. I do not discriminate, I call on ALL Zoning and Property Code issues. Breaking the law is breaking the law!!!!
    Greg L
    Enjoy your vacation, it’s a must for you, and your family!!!

  27. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:43 pm:
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    Dee, you are correct. The stirrup resolution will hopefully start cracking down on the benefits and businesses which draw illegals here.

  28. pundit-106 said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:46 pm:
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    I wonder how we ever made it without all of the services you say these illegals so graciously provide us with. The truth is that we were doing just fine before and will be fine once and if we ever reselve this crisis. I will take the hit on the lawn service and housecleaning. Just pay your taxes and follow the laws.

  29. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:49 pm:
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    It will force businesses to quit “inflating” their profits and get back to reality and start paying livable wages.

  30. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:04 pm:
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    Dee R said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:33 pm: “The price will be paid one way or another.”
    I do hear what you are saying and we are paying the price right now! I am mad as hell as I sit here at work (break of course :) ) and have to pay taxes for people that break the law and abuse OUR tax money. I don’t make enough to be totally secure,relaxed and it upsets me that @ one point in my life I COULD HAVE used and qualified for temporary benefits and chose NOT TOO! I would and DID everything in my power not too and it just irritates me to no end, when I see / hear about illegals abusing our system and in OUR SCHOOLS TOO? I REALLY don’t understand that one.



  31. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:07 pm:
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    Additionally, those that come here legally should demonstrate that they will put more into the system than they will take out. Therefore, people should be encouraged to get as much education in their homelands etc. prior to coming here so that they can do this. We should not become a “welfare” country.

  32. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:08 pm:
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    I believe this is what Canada does.

  33. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:10 pm:
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    To support my position read this: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1523.cfm
    Costs of low skilled immigration.

  34. Anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:10 pm:
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    Hey Jim Young…YOU have been tagged too (http://www.tranzas.ne.jp/~uck503/)

  35. Dee R said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:11 pm:
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    Pundit-06…As one who cleans her own house and raises her own child (although I do enjoy the occasional restaurant meal), I agree with you. My point is that too many of us in NOVA are spoiled by our wealthy lifestyles and reliance on cheap illegal labor. I’m not sure that many among us are willing to “go back” to the way things were, and are caught up in the trappings of wealth.
    Patriot…..I hope you are right about businesses starting to pay livable wages to legal workers. Most Amercians don’t expect to live 15 or 20 to a house and leave their families behind to work. With the price of housing hereabouts, that “living wage” will have to be much higher than businesses are used to paying to attract legal wokers.

  36. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:13 pm:
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    ONE more thing, there are ALOT of AMERICANS licing beyond their means, trying to keep up with the next and IT IS TIME TO GET REAL!

  37. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:13 pm:
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  38. Alexandrian said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:15 pm:
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    12 million to be deported…. this is Bushes plan

    35 concentration camps( on closed military bases) to be constucted by march 2008.

    Thats 300,000 folks per camp.

    There they will exist while 15000 busses are purchased , each to to 20 rtrips to Mexico.

    Meanwhile, and babies born in the camps are going to be excluded from the usa too.

    This solves the problem,( Final solution???)

  39. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:16 pm:
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    Dee, it would not be hard for them to pay a “livable wage”. Heck…I just saw houses that were $500K one month drop to $400K the next month. That should say something regarding the mark up. If the businesses want to stay in business, they will have to deflate their marked up prices and get back to reality. If they are unwilling to do this…I guess they will have to close their doors if they raise their prices and people don’t buy their products. I don’t consider myself an overconsumer by any means…therefore…it won’t have a big impact on me.

  40. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:19 pm:
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    There are a hundred companies that produce “like” products. Therefore, supply and demand will control the prices of things.

  41. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:24 pm:
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    One other thing to consider (for those that want Amnesty). If amnesty occurred, the “low wage” workers would become legal. Once that happened, they would demand “higer wages”. What would happen then? The companies would send them packing and try to recruit more “low wage” workers (who would most likely be illegals). This would result in a massive group of previously employed workers who are now on welfare, foodstamps, WIC, etc. Additionally, we would have an influx of even more illegal aliens. So how would this benefit anything….it wouldn’t. The best course of action is to shut businesses down that hire illegal aliens, send the current illegal aliens home, cut the benefits from illegal aliens (so that they will self deport). If people wish to come here legally, they can go through the proper process and enjoy the benefits of doing so (as a productive member of society…not a taker of benefits).

  42. Dee R said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:25 pm:
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    Patriot…I wished I believed in the capitalist free market as much as you do. The fact is, we are all expendable to the private sector if cheaper sources of labor can be found here or overseas for almost any of our jobs. That is capitalism at work without any government restraint on trade, labor and immigration law.

  43. 3rd Gen said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:28 pm:
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    wow you guys really don’t understand this issue. you ask how we made it without the services the illegals provide, but the answer is that we never have. we have always had sources of cheap labor. the reason why the cheap labor is illegal now is that the laws don’t allow enough people to legally enter the country, the laws prevent people from being legally paid less than a minimum wage, and the demand for cheap labor is higher than ever.

    and lafayette, give me a break, don’t hide behind strict adherence to the law. i’d bet a thousand dollars that you have gone over the speed limit before, but i doubt you turned yourself in to the cops for it. according to you though, breaking the law is breaking the law.

    also, don’t even talk about how this country was founded by “legal” immigrants. when the first WHITE EUROPEAN people arrived here they were illegal aliens. they just had guns and more money than the BROWN legal residents. most of the “illegal aliens” from mexico probably have more native american blood in them than any of the people on here do.

  44. anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:34 pm:
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    “when the first WHITE EUROPEAN people arrived here they were illegal aliens”

    The indians didn’t have any laws against that, so no they weren’t.

  45. 3rd Gen said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:37 pm:
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    no no, we didn’t understand the indians’ languages…..so its pretty tough to say anything about the laws they did or didn’t have, cause the people who wrote history didn’t care

  46. AWCheney said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:37 pm:
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    “With the price of housing hereabouts, that “living wage” will have to be much higher than businesses are used to paying to attract legal workers.”

    Patriot is correct, Dee R…the hugely inflated price of housing is not necessarily a consequence of costs, but of hugely inflated profits. As someone who, after the death of our father, took their turn managing the masonry construction company he founded, I know something of what I speak. We had NO illegal aliens, the wages offered by the industry in Virginia rivaled Union wages without the dues, and our masons were craftsmen. When we had heated competition for a bid it was our profit margin that suffered, not the wages of the men on the jobs, both craftsmen and support crews. But that’s the thinking of small, family-owned business…provide a quality job for a fair price. Big companies don’t operate that way. It would be nice if they had to learn.

  47. Italian said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:46 pm:
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    Is it not politically correct to say Patriot that you have already a massive group of African Americans going trough welfare?
    I mean this is not new. Why are you complaining now?
    I guess that Middle Class America is expendable too.
    Lou Dobbs sells you that utopia that once you get rid of illegal aliens, things will get better. Dream while Dobbs enjoys his huge farm in NJ and eating tacos prepared by his Mexican wife.
    The market doesn’t care about anybody and you didn’t get the skills the market demanded when it was time to do it.
    Skilled labor doesn’t require any learning if an uneducated person from El Salvador takes your job. It is not that he/she is depressing the wages, the problem is that you never saw it coming. The”skills” I have are not that important anymore. People with access to the best education in the world (in theory) don’t get to learn anything to compete with China or India.
    How many americans don’t even get real skills from a community college? You think you can compete in a globalized environment without real skills?
    We need to do it better and start blaming people. Pointing fingers won’t change the reality of the already lost Middle Class America.
    I don’t think we will loose this country because of balkanization. We will loose it because we have become as dumb as the Romans eating bread with lead. There is no creativity anymore. Whya are most of the people getting college degrees (PhDs)foreigners? Are they stealing those jobs too?

  48. dolphin_Moon said on 23 Jul 2007 at 1:46 pm:
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    Part of the problem in Central American countries and Mexico is limited education. If you come from some of the rural areas, education is sketchy at best. The chance for education just is not an option for many.

    As for putting more into society than you take out….how would you propose a potential legal immigrant do this? Do you mean in terms of contributions to society or monetary input into the various US tax systems? I simply don’t grasp how this demand could be demonstrated.


  49. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:00 pm:
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    Dolphin…go look at how Canada does it. One must demonstrate that they will not be a “burden” to the system (consume more benefits than they pay into the system). Look at the article I posted and you will see what I am talking about. Additionally, whether or not the education system is in shambles in other parts of the world must be addressed by the people and governments of those countries. They are sovereign are they not? Italian…our welfare system as a whole is not administered correctly. Anyone (regardless of their race…which you seem to be dwelling on) that is consistently on welfare and foodstamps should be removed from those benefits after a certain period of time. No one should be allowed to live off welfare and foodstamps for their entire lives. That just demonstrates that those people don’t want to be productive. Furthermore…Italian…you obviously don’t understand how skillsets are used to properly resource jobs now do you.

  50. BL said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:01 pm:
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    It does not matter what color they are, what race, or what religion if they are they are illegally they need to be deported!

  51. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:02 pm:
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    Here is the article again.

  52. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:02 pm:
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    BL…you got it!

  53. Lafayette said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:05 pm:
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    3rd Gen
    I only spoke of Zoning and Property Code laws.
    btw, I went from the age of 18 to 35 without a speeding ticket.
    I do obey the laws.
    Are you a 3rd Gen, illegal alien?

  54. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:12 pm:
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    One note concerning Lou Dobbs….the liberals dislike Lou because he actually tells the truth. He even brings on the illegal alien supporters so that they can have their say (even though they cannot back their stuff up with facts). The truth hurts.

  55. Dee R said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:13 pm:
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    3rd Gen. You may have a point about the US always needing sources of cheap labor. When the legal immigration floodgates were open in earlier centuries, European immigrants from Italy, Ireland, Poland, Russia, etc. provided that cheap labor, and before that African slaves were forcibly brought here to perform those tasks..

    Other than the criminal element of the mafia and Irish gangs, most of the European immigrants were law-abiding and made an effort to learn English and assimilate. They had too. Their weren’t as many social services to take advantage of, or ESL programs in public schools. The way many (but not all) recent uneducated immigrants from the Americas trash up the neighborhoods they live in with garbage and cars parked everywhere, and the gang warfare seems to really be what is pissing people off around here.

    Maybe LaRaza and other of these pro-immigrant groups should spend their time with outreach programs to teach people how to speak English and behave in ways that our culture considers to be neighborly and civilized. Perhaps then the backlash against them would be greatly reduced.

  56. Lafayette said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:16 pm:
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    I’m curious, is your block looking any different since July 10th?
    Mine is looking less crowded. I know you like to keep our findings anonymous. Thought you might care to comment on this.
    btw, I was glad to see you posted the “gumball immigration” youtube. I posted it sometime back on another thread. I think this is one of the best commentaries on immigration. All citizens should look at it. It’s worth all 9 minutes and 36 seconds. Thanks for posting it here. There’s a few on here that could learn a thing or two, if they took they time to watch it. I sent it to some PWCBOS, I think it enlightened them.

  57. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:16 pm:
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    What NCLR should do is to help clean up problems south of the border. If the new wave want to stay loyal to their countries of origin (and not assimilate into the American melting pot culture)…they need to stay home and fix their own problems at home. However, if they want to become an American and assimilate into our melting pot culture…they are more than welcome to do so legally.

  58. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:18 pm:
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    Lafayette, I have not really seen any major difference trash on the ground wise…however…I have seen quite a few for sale signs (possibly foreclosures?).

  59. Onan the Barbarian said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:18 pm:
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    Lou Dobbs tells the truth? LOL. Whatever. Like his assertion of 7,000 leprosy cases over the past three years? A trivially disproved statistic. (It’s 7,000 over 30 years, and has little to do with immigrants.)

    Dobbs is like Bill O’Reilly: overopinionated and grossly underinformed.

    But by all means, you just go on believing whatever makes you happy. Close your eyes and jam your fists in your ears and pray real hard and maybe you can wish the bad brown people away.

  60. freedom said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:20 pm:
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    William Fitzgibbon said….

    “By the way, governments need to declare English as the official business language and stop printing forms/information in other languages. PWC employees need to be trained in this new approach in doing business to ensure that business is conducted in a consistent manner for all people. Failure to conduct business in this manner must have accountability and consequences.”

    Not only that, William, PWC needs to stop paying a salary premium for new hires that are English/Spanish bilingual, stop paying tuition for current employees to learn Spanish, and stop the library truck that visits local Latino hang-outs and provides library materials with no “late charge” if materials are returned late…and I presume no charge if materials are not returned at all.

  61. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:20 pm:
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    Lafayette, yes the video concerning the population boom is a must see (particularly for those that advocate open borders). There is a reason why we have limits on how many people come in legally.

  62. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:21 pm:
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    Onan…you are mistaken. There are plenty of “health cases” (tb, leprosy, etc.) being reported around the country. Why don’t you do your research.

  63. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:25 pm:
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    Onan…here is a good article on the health problems: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters64bf
    Where is your research?

  64. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:28 pm:
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    Have the illegals and the people that support them thought what America would be without our existing laws, etc? It would not be the America that they want / have run too.

  65. Onan the Barbarian said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:28 pm:
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    Patriot: I did my research. The peak year for leprosy cases was 1983 (456 cases). It’s fallen since then. It was 137 last year. Using “Dobbsian” logic, this implies that immigrants lower the rate.

    Dobbs is wrong. And an idiot.

    You need a new strawman to whack away at.

  66. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:31 pm:
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    Onan…another one…you will not win this argument.http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003712055_tuberculosis18m.html
    Please read.

  67. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:32 pm:
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  68. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:33 pm:
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    Onan…another story.

  69. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:36 pm:
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    Another one Onan…read the MD’s comments.

  70. Mando said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:39 pm:
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    I’m so sick and tired of hearing all the “our founding fathers were illegal aliens” tripe. Last I checked, the first settlers were all dead and buried by the time the Declaration of Independence was signed so without getting into the historical events of how America became to be should we just eliminate all immigration policies and let anyone and everyone become an American???? Do you realize what a disaster that would be????

    So why should we reward those who came here illegally with legal status? Why should we spit in the face of those who actually went through the LEGAL process? And most ominously, this is the precedent we set in the 80’s which we are now reaping the reward of. Amnesty again will lead to greater and greater illegal immigration in the future. I don’t want to pass along the effects of another mistake to my children. If people faught then what we’re fighting now we wouldn’t be in the predicament we’re in.

  71. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:42 pm:
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    Mando said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:39 pm,

    “should we just eliminate all immigration policies and let anyone and everyone become an American???? Do you realize what a disaster that would be???”
    THANK YOU! That is what I was trying to say above

  72. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:43 pm:
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    Bottom line on the health issue. Illegal aliens = not screened medically for contagious diseases (that a lawful citizen would be potentially quarantined for). Period. That is a problem.

  73. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:44 pm:
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    Mando…you are correct.

  74. Onan the Barbarian said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:45 pm:
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    Patriot: LOL. That’s the best you can do? A news article that says 145 people in Seattle have TB? That’s a public health crisis? In 2003, King County had 7.5 motor vehicle deaths per 100,000 people. The population of King County is about 1.9 million. So there’s about the same number of people killed in motor vehicle accidents there as have TB. And only 2 of those TB cases were drug-resistant (like that white douchey lawyer from Colorado).

    Hardly a public health crisis! Also note that the article doesn’t show transmission to the nonimmigrant population. (It doesn’t really discuss it). Basically you have the disease confined within the immigrant population.

    This kind of scaremongering has been going on for ages. Fear the Other. They are disease-ridden.

    There’s lot of arguments to be made against illegal immigrants. Why latch on to the retarded ones?

  75. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:46 pm:
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    Onan…what did you not understand about my post above?

  76. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:47 pm:
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    Bottom line on the health issue. Illegal aliens = not screened medically for contagious diseases (that a lawful citizen would be potentially quarantined for). Period. That is a problem.
    Here it is again.

  77. Lafayette said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:48 pm:
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    I’m still doing a couple of foreclosure title searches per day. I’d bet about half of the for sale signs are foreclosures. I don’t folks like to hear it, but it’s a FACT!
    I saw about 10 Yard Sales signs still hanging off of street signs. Most, street signs, have the code on the back of the sign, that it’s illegal to post signs on the street sign. There used to be a 5day a week yard sale on Damscus, last year. Early this spring that place of business was foreclosed on. Are you surprised by that fact?

  78. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:49 pm:
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    Onan…where are your statistics that show up to 30 million people haven’t brought anything contagious over. After all…that data would not exist. What we do know is what MDs are reporting from hospitals and that 3rd World countries have alot of disease that has not been eradicated. Your logic is ridiculous.

  79. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:50 pm:
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    Lafayette, not surprised at all.

  80. Onan the Barbarian said on 23 Jul 2007 at 2:57 pm:
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    >where are your statistics that show up to 30 million people haven’t brought anything contagious over.

    Uh….let’s see, where are my statistics. Hmmm…where could they be? Must be around here somewhere….Let me look….Oh, here they are:


    The fact that we DON’T see statistically significant increases in leprosy for example, and the fact that all we have are anecdotal evidence of some guy (reported in WorldNetDaily, nonetheless!) who sees some foreigners with diseases, is what proves my argument.

    It’s called “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.” The idea that 30 million people are rife with infectious diseases is ludicrous. It’s up to you to prove that they do, not to me that they don’t. Are you really that dense, or are you just trolling?

  81. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:16 pm:
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    Onan…I guess you know nothing about tb then? You don’t feel it…see it. Many people who have it may not even know they have it. Get a grip. Error on the side of caution and public safety. No screening = possible problems. Why do you suppose they screen people when they enter legally? Why?

  82. Lafayette said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:16 pm:
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    Sick people are here in PWC, with something. There’s a “free clinic” at the Health Dept.(next to the courthouse), on Thursdays, services are available at 6pm. Starting at 11am, folks start lining up for services that aren’t even available for up to 7 hours. Oh yes, they bring all their “anchor babies”, average 3per female. I bet there are some illegal aliens in that line. The line is there no matter what the weather is, snow, sleet, ice or 110degrees. How damn sick can you be if you’re able to stand out in the elements all those hours?
    I only post facts, and what I have seen and more than likely have pictures of. Drive by some Thursday, if you don’t believe me. I bet others on this blog have seen the same thing!!!!!

  83. Lafayette said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:19 pm:
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    One more thing, there’s a lady in Westgate, that home-schools her daughter, and the doctor told her to have the child tested for TB, simply because of where they lived. Trust me, there are plenty of storm doors opened around here. I think most of us know what that means. Is your storm door open?

  84. Mando said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:24 pm:
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    Leprosy is not an epidemic here in the US. Point taken. However, exotic diseases that were all but eliminated decades ago in the US are now popping up. That’s a cause for concern. This is one issue to be weighed with many that illegal immigration fascilitates.

  85. Anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:24 pm:
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    Hey Greg, if you wind up doing Anderson Cooper’s show, can you see if you can get him to come out finally? I know for a fact that Perez Hilton, another notable blogger, would love, love, love to date him.

  86. Pickett's charge said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:26 pm:
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    To quote the poet Naomi Shihab Nye:


    “Before you know what kindness really is
    you must lose things,
    feel the future dissolve in a moment
    like salt in a weakened broth.
    What you held in your hand,
    what you counted and carefully saved,
    all this must go so you know
    how desolute the landscape can be
    between the regions of kindness . . .”

    May you never meet yourselves if these things happen to you.

  87. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:26 pm:
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    Do you know how easy it is to become exposed to tb Onan? All one has to do is talk to someone that has it an they can become exposed (this was told to me by an MD). Therefore, if someone does not know they have it, yet go around town where there are loads of people, malls, schools, sit on busses, airplanes, etc. Think how many people can become exposed by just one person. Now…take the 30 million people that are undocumented (illegal) that have not been medically screened coming from areas with known tb problems (let alone all sorts of other problems) and we have some serious issues. Use your brain Onan.

  88. redawn said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:27 pm:
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  89. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:32 pm:
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    I agree Mando. Let us not just concentrate on one item. There are many potential items. Tb is a real big deal due to how easy it is to get exposed.

  90. Mando said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:41 pm:
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    @ Pickett’s charge

    I would be the first person I would seek out if I found I was down on my luck and needed some kindness and charity. At the point where that kindness is exploited and taken advantage of I would have to rethink my relationship with my “down and out” self.

  91. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 3:48 pm:
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    “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime”—Author unknown
    We need to teach people to follow the law and to educate themselves so that they can be productive…not takers.

  92. BL said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:01 pm:
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    Illegal Aliens are killing more Americans every year than the Terrorist have killed in the last 10 years combined while Raping, Robbing and Assaulting 10,s of thousands of American Citizens and we are suppose to feel sorry for them. An Uneducated, Educating Hating, Welfare Loving, Criminally inclined Aliens that have a school drop out rate over 50 percent and that breed like Rabbits on Viagra to Populate the Gangs and Welfare rolls! With over 50,000 Illegal Aliens gang Members in LA County alone. They come here illegally, protest and demand their rights instead of Protesting and demanding their Rights in their own Countries. Apparently their rights include the right to turn this country into a Lawless Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Drugs, Poverty, Cruelty, and Misery like they have built in Mexico and Latin American, just as long as it results in either Money or Votes for our Politicians!

  93. Greg L said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:05 pm:
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    Couldn’t it be that your perception of the goals of the conservative movement might be a little faulty, perhaps? Or is it just more convenient to avoid discussion about the so-called positive impacts of huge numbers of illegal aliens flooding our communities?

    It is so much easier to brand me as a racist, or something similar. Saves all the trouble of having to actually argue the relative merits of different policy positions and their impacts, doesn’t it?

  94. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:18 pm:
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    Howie, I suppose you are an MD then (because that information on how easy it is to get exposed was not from an article…it was an MD actually talking to me in person)? Did you follow up with each passenger on the airplane to check his/her status? What about the people overseas that he was around. Did you talk to each one of them too? That is AMAZING!

  95. Howie Feltersnatch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:24 pm:
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    It’s easy to brand Republicans as racist because, in general, they are. You’d all be a lot happier if you just admit you hate blacks and latinos. We all know it’s true, why bother pretending?

    You all know damn well if these were white, English speakers coming into the country, you wouldn’t have a single problem with them. But all we hear are, “Whine! They won’t assimilate into our culture! Oh noes! They don’t speak English!”

    Quit speaking in code. When Reagan complained about “welfare queens” we all know what he meant (dark-skinned folks). And now, you use words like “multiple working families in the same dwelling” to mean Latinos. You adopt the odd Uncle Tom like Clarence Thomas, or Aunt Jemima like Condoleezza to shuck and jive and toe your party line, and you laugh and say, “See, we’re not racist,” and then behind the scenes you complain about That Element. Those people. Them. They’re coming into our schools. They don’t speak the way we do. They don’t worship like we do.

    I’ll take a hundred Mexicans over one racist, white-trash, republican numbskull anyday.

  96. Mando said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:25 pm:
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    “They’re super-religious, they pop out kids without thought of contraceptive or abortion, they work tiny wages and don’t mind being repressed, and they come from a country with no welfare, no social safety nets, no environmental regulations, no wage controls–everyone makes it on their own or dies.”

    LOL! And you’re calling GregL racist! Sorry but I don’t hold the same steriotypical view as you. I see most of the Latinos I come in cantact with as hard working family orientated people. I don’t know if they’re legal or not. Frankly, I don’t care. All I do “noes” is that unrestricted immigration is a bad thing for us as a society. It’s unfortunate that some hard working individuals have to be deported due to not using legal channels for immigrating but the alternative isn’t sustainable.

  97. Howie Feltersnatch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:26 pm:
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    What the hell, Patriot? Do you not read any news? Nobody on the plane tested positive? How stupid are you? Please tell me you don’t vote. Do you understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and science? How can you call yourself a patriot when you’re that culturally, intellectually, and scientifically illiterate.

  98. Mando said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:36 pm:
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    “I’ll take a hundred Mexicans over one RACIST, white-trash, republican numbskull anyday.”

    LOL! You did it again!

  99. park'd said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:42 pm:
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    Just stop responding to this clown. He probably forgot to take his meds down in his room in his parents’ basement and happened upon this forum by accident. He’s already proven himself to be a stereotyping, bigoted racist. /ignore.

  100. Howie Feltersnatch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:46 pm:
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    I’m the racist? And yet you’re the ones crying about Mexicans taking over. You people are funny. Please don’t breed.

  101. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 4:54 pm:
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    Howie, you are ridiculous. You did not address my actual questions…typical of a liberal! Where is YOUR evidence? Additionally, I have plenty of “non-white” friends that would disagree with your position and are on our side of the argument. Why? Illegal is illegal! Your views promote chaos and lawlessness! Howie, why don’t you contact the “You Don’t Speak for Me” organization (they are LEGAL hispanics that are against illegal immigration). I support their views. Please report your findings! For some reason…I have a feeling you won’t do that! You sound like a typical college student that was fed the “socialist” line from his/her professor and left their brain at the door. Anyone of any color is welcome to come here provided they assimilate into the American melting pot culture and do it legally. What part of that do you not understand smarty pants?

  102. Mando said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:00 pm:
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    Your comments are very racist. You don’t know me or anyone else here from Adam yet you assume we’re white trash. Last I checked, white trash is a very racist term and using that term while calling us racists is contradictory and kinda shoots your whole diatribe down. If you’re here to flame and troll - leave and do something more productive because most here will eventually just ignore you. Otherwise, maybe we can have some good debate.

  103. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:06 pm:
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    Howie, just because people on the plane did not get it doesn’t mean others can’t. You are ridiculous!

  104. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:09 pm:
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    Howie, here you go: http://www.dontspeakforme.org/
    Please report back once you express your views to them!

  105. manassascityresident said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:12 pm:
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    Who’s the racist??????
    Howie, you are an amazingly brainless knucklehead……boy, do I feel sorry for you. The only racists I’ve come across are the illegals, because it is very apparent they hate US citizens. They have no regard for the American culture and they certainly don’t even attempt to learn the English language. You would be the second type of racist, afraid to deal with the truth and throwing around the race card because you have nothing else to say and are not intelligent enough to discuss the facts.
    You whip out YOUR wallet and pay for all of these illegals because I’m done. I bet you don’t even live around here.
    God help us if you ever breed (hopefully, you haven’t)…..

  106. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:13 pm:
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    Howie, since you are so educated (self-proclaimed anyway), why don’t you read this: http://migrationdebate.org/2007/02/13/hispanics-against-immigration/
    Please contact Rosanna Pulido and see what she has to say about your view. Please report your findings!

  107. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:15 pm:
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    Howie, should we get rid of our American melting pot concept? If so, why? What do you suppose the result would be? Unification or balkanization?

  108. Howie Feltersnatch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:29 pm:
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    Melting pot doesn’t have to mean assimilation. There’s such a thing as diversity. Look at Canada, Switzerland, China, Japan. All function just fine with multiple languages and cultures in use. Having Mexicans move in next door to you is not the end of the world. Fifty years ago you’d be publicly decrying Negroes wanting to live in your neighborhood and marry your daughter. Same thing. They’re here whether you like it or not. It’s time to get used to it and accept it.

  109. park'd said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:31 pm:
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    This howie clown is not educated and is most likely a pimple faced 300 pound 40 year old dufus who hasn’t seen the sun in a decade and is blogging from the packard bell 486 in his parents’ basement in suburban Rockville (land of the liberal). Any time someone like him jumps on and immediately starts with the racist accusations (all the while flinging a myriad of his own racist remarks) we just laugh at him and call him a silly troll. Go away you sad, little, silly troll.

  110. park'd said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:34 pm:
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    And with a name like how(he) felt(her)(snatch)….nice try troll.

    You haven’t been anywhere near a snatch in a lifetime and a half. Of this I can guarantee. Now beat it.

  111. Howie Feltersnatch said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:45 pm:
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    When I list the things I don’t want coming out of my wallet, it includes spending on an illegal, pointless, counterproductive war in Iraq; corporate welfare; foreign aid to countries that don’t need it.

    The fact that Paco and Veronica get a few dollars in welfare now and then ain’t exactly weighing heavily on my soul. I’m more concerned about corporations not paying taxes than some lemon-picker earning $5/hour under the table.

    And I live in Prince William. Nice suburban neighborhood. Got some Mexican immigrant families living in the neighborhood too. I don’t know if they’re legal or not (a lot don’t speak any English). They tend to be quiet, not let their kids run all over, keep their lawns neat. It’s the white people (and I myself am squarely in the rhythmless honkey category)–especially the NASCAR-watching, Bush-loving, country-music-loving rednecks–that are annoying. They give their kids those idiot pocket motorcycles, let them run around all hours, don’t keep their lawns up because they’re too busy making payments on their pollutionmobile SUVs.

  112. anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 5:53 pm:
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    “corporate welfare”

    Just what do you suppose illegal aliens really are? Subsidized labor. Sounds like “corporate welfare” to me. Especially since the taxpayer gets to pick up the tab–the difference between what the illegal aliens cost and what their unscrupulous employers pay them.

  113. The Patriot said on 23 Jul 2007 at 6:04 pm:
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    Howie, please contact those people and get back to us with your answers. There is a reason for the melting pot. By the way, a melting pot does not mean that one cannot enjoy their heritage. What it does mean is that people are loyal to this country and its customs and the language of English (for public and government activity). Additionally, you said “now and then” for welfare…are you kidding me? The reports show that many low skilled individuals will take more via benefits during their lifetime than they put into our system.

  114. Dee R said on 23 Jul 2007 at 6:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    About 90 percent of everyone who lives in this metro area makes their living by sucking the government tit in one way or another.

  115. at-the-water-cooler.com » Blog Archive » Black Velvet Bruce Li said on 23 Jul 2007 at 6:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    […] A blog that covers Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics, and posts stories about how immigration is effecting local life in Virginia. Has been getting credit in the press for effecting local politics. He has been swamped by traffic […]

  116. anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 6:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    Do you remember how empty I66 was back in 1996 when they had that government shutdown because they didn’t sign the new budget?

  117. Wayne said on 23 Jul 2007 at 6:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    Keep doing what you are doing, nobody in the media seems to want to do the job. http://at-the-water-cooler.com/blog/

  118. park'd said on 23 Jul 2007 at 7:02 pm:
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    That’s funny, all the little mini motorcycle riders and out of control kids running around in my neighborhood are of the Hispanic variety. My neighbor and I are just about to get into it if he doesn’t keep his brats off my lawn. There are always 100 people coming and going in his house and the adults all have arms full of kids. I am always out there picking up their juice boxes and other assorted trash off my grass. Guess the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree…

  119. Anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 7:06 pm:
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    Howie - If you are using Japan as an example of how cultures coexist happily, especially in regards to illegal immigration, you are sorely mistaken.


  120. BL said on 23 Jul 2007 at 7:41 pm:
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    The most serious problem American Faces is not Terrorism but the Mass Invasion from Mexico. The Largest Invasion in World History is destroying our Schools, Medical Systems, Judicial System, and the Rule of Law, while Slaughtering, Raping & Robbing Americans by the 10,s of thousands. They are destroying our Social cohesion & turning us into a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Benefiting the Rich paid for by the poor & Middle Class! If this Amnesty is passed it will lead in time to Riots, Fires & Civil unrest on a scale greater than the 60,s and possibly Civil war!

    Both Democratic and Republican administrations have ignored Article IV Section IV of our Constitution & our Laws that is supposed to protect this Country from Invasion! They have ignored our Constitution, Failed to enforce our Laws, and dishonored their Oath of Office

    President Bush has not only ignored our Constitution & Laws he has Aided, Abided, Encouraged and Collaborated with a foreign government to Subvert our Constitution! To ignore our Constitution is grounds for Impeachment, to engage in Subverting our Constitution is Treason!

    This Policy continues today even after the Wake-Up call of 9/11!

    When you have Senators that are swore to Defend the Constitution & Uphold our Laws encourage Criminals to break them then you have Criminals for Politicians! When our Politicians that think our Constitution is just a damn piece of Paper & Laws are meant to be broken then we are headed down the Slippery Slope of Anarchy!

    Illegal Aliens start by breaking the Law by Arriving Illegally using Forged Document and engaging in a wide range of Illegal Activities that would get an American Citizens Fined and in Jail.

    If an American Citizen is caught driving without driver licenses or insurance they face heavy fines & possible lost of driving Privileges. Illegal Aliens on the other hand are usually released with no punishment! The same is true for identify thief and benefits using false SS cards & for a host of other Crimes that American Citizens would feel the full weight of the Law!

    Our Politicians answer to these crimes is not to punish them, but to reward them!

    Only someone that is Brain-dead would believe rewarding Criminals results in less Criminals or Crime!

    People that start out by breaking the Laws & are Rewarded for doing so, have little respect or regard for any Laws & see this Nation and American Citizens as ripe for Plunder!

    They take full advantage of every benefit they can get Legal or Illegally!

    Illegal Aliens have an informal but highly effective net work to inform other Illegal Aliens where to get bogus documents & any new scams to get benefits illegally! Most Illegal Aliens works off the books & pays no taxes but still somehow gets an Earned Income tax credit ranging form 1500.00 to 3200.00 returned to them every year from American taxpayers!

    Illegal Aliens arrive in this Country from Counties where rampant Crime and Corruption has been a way of life for Centuries, is it any wonder they bring those same Family Values across the Border with them and are busy creating the same type of environment in the USA!

    They retain loyally to the Native Countries & Exploit the Compassion of Americans & the Corruption of our Politicians by using us & having nothing but contempt for a people & Nation that does not have the Political Will or Integrity in its Politicians to enforce our Laws & our Constitution against Invasion.

    To put it bluntly & without being Politically Correct, Illegal Aliens & Many of our Politicians are Parasites & Criminals feasting on the backs of American Citizens!

    Illegal Aliens seek not to build this Nation, but to use the fruits of Labor of Legal American Citizens that immigrated to this country legally & have in 230 years of Blood, Sweat, Tears, and Sacrifice built this Nation!

    While the Illegal Invaders have built nothing but a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty & Misery in their own Counties for the masses, but a Elite class of very Rich, and Corrupt for the few.

    Could this be what many of our Politicians are hoping to Achieve here in the USA?

    You hear our Politicians like Bush, Kennedy, Hillary, McCain, Reid, Spector, Brownback, and Martinez, that’s wants to give them Amnesty, only they are so dishonest they refuse to call it Amnesty! They talk about the Rule of Law & Amnesty in the same sentence. This is an Oxymoron of the first order!

    We hear the same Politicians speaking of seeking Bipartisan support for a Comprehensive solution to Illegal Aliens which are code words for Amnesty without any means or intend to enforce the Laws or our Constitution & close our Borders, just like they did with the 1986 Amnesty!

    They further obscure & confuse the issue with Political Spin & Lies by saying it is only 7 or 8 million when the best independent estimates of the Illegal population was 20 million years ago & we have 5 to 10 thousand more pouring across our borders every day since then.

    They conveniently forget to inform American Citizens that each Illegal Alien granted citizenship has the option to bringing in 5 family members in a never ending chain, so at the very least we are talking about 60 million or so in the next 15 to 20 years, a more realistic number is probably 150 million or more.

    This Nation will be inundated with 10,s of Millions of Prolific breeders. Citizens with an average of 6 grade education and a 50 percent school drop out rate to populate the gangs & welfare rolls.

    This is the same thing that happens with the last Amnesty, only this time it is on a scale large enough to destroy this Nation and turn the USA into another Mexico!

    What we really have is a club of Millionaires in the Senate & the Democrat party seeking to deceive American Citizens again & pass a Law to reward other Millionaires with an unlimited supply of 21 First Century slaves.

    While they reward their selves with the votes from Latinos and money they receive from Corporations for destroying this Nation!

    The intent is to exploit both the Illegal Aliens for their Cheap Labor and the Poor & Middle class American Citizens as victims of the Illegal Alien’s crime, deteriorating standard of living and the 100,s of billions in welfare costs!

    While the users of the Illegal Aliens Labor laugh all the way to the bank with their obscene profits! They get richer while the rest sink into Poverty! In Bush’s term in office 5.4 million more American Citizens have slipped into poverty l & if they succeed in this Amnesty, American will become a Nation of Poverty with the Rich, Elite and Corrupt ruling and the rest is slaving for pennies like the Peons in Mexico!

    If this Amnesty is passed is anything like the Senate version as currently written, it will result in harm to this Nation almost beyond ones imagination!

    The last Amnesty resulted in the largest increase in Crime and Welfare of any bill ever passed & compared to this Amnesty it was minuscule.

    Illegal Aliens as percentage of population & the ones given Citizenship by the last Amnesty contribute more too both Crime & Welfare, than any other group in the USA!

    So you be the judge of what the results of next Amnesty will be & the harm it will do!
    The press is as guilty as the Politicians in trying to foster off this massive Amnesty bill on the American Public. They continue to refer to the Mass Invasion of Illegal Aliens as Immigrants which could not be further from the truth.

    They fail to point out the harmful impact of the last Amnesty in 1986.

    None report what the detrimental affects will be to our Population, Standard of living, Crime, Environment, Welfare or a host of other problems with the Senate bill!

    Many Nations have tried to build a great Nation on the Back of Slaves, all have failed. If this were not so Mexico & other third world Nations would be rich instead of poor!

    For anyone that has never lived in an third country & experienced the horrible conditions & do not understand what will happen to this Country if the Senate Amnesty is passed go visit the interior of Mexico, there you will see the future of this Nation!

    We, as American Citizens owe & have the duty to prior generations that built this country at great personal sacrifice & to future generations, to rise up in protest from coast to coast and tell our Corrupt Politicians, No Not Again!

  121. manassascityresident said on 23 Jul 2007 at 7:49 pm:
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    You said it all and you wrote it well!
    Thank you!

  122. White Trash said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:01 pm:
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    I am white trash. At least that’s what people used to call me and my friends when we were growing up in Fairfax County. And that’s what the Richmond preppies called me behind my back when I went through UVA. I guess it was living on Rt 1 or wearing a Led Zepplin tee shirt instead of a LaCoste alligator shirt that bothered them. Who knows? After I made my first $10M nobody seemed to think I was white trash anymore. Funny how that works.

    Personally, I think all the noise about illegal immigration is overblown. Basically, I agree with most of your logic. However, my reasons are less emotional than yours. Here is what I think:

    1. Northern Virginia presently has a very low unemployment rate. The illegals who are here are working and helping our economy.

    2. When the local economy cools the illegals will leave. They provide a flexible workforce. This is good for the local economy.

    3. While illegals may get paid too little by unscrupulous employers, they are economically better off than they were in their native countries. That’s why they can send money back home.

    4. I have seen no evidence to indicate that illegal immigrants are any less law abiding then other people at the same socio-economic level. If this evidence exists I might change my mind on this issue.

    5. The issue of language is real. The inability to learn English or assimilate (over time) into American culture will create a permanent underclass for those failing to assimilate. However, historically, many waves of immigration to the US involved people who did not speak English. The people already in the US (almost all of whom were decended from immigrants themselves) complained about the “strange” languages, “odd” habits, etc. Then the children of the immigrants learned English and assimilated and became the people who decried the next wave of immigration. Today, there is too much tolerance for languages other than English (especially Spanish). This supposedly liberal tolerance is, in fact, bad for the US and bad for the immigrants it is supposed to protect.

    6. The immigrants may play loud salsa music. My kids play loud Red Hot Chilli Peppers. I play loud Led Zepplin. If loud music is the biggest problem that a group presents - it’s a pretty benign group.

    Howie - your heart may be in the right place but your mind is a bit lost. De-evolving this debate to racism accomplishes nothing. Keeping the debate on an economic footing accomplishes much.

  123. dolphin_Moon said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:25 pm:
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    You all are too much.

    I don’t feel sorry for Howie. He is a very gifted writer. I am green with envy and I wish I had his talent. Perhaps the pen IS mightier than the sword.

    You know, I have never thought of the term ‘white trash’ as a racist expression. ‘Trash’ comes in all races. You can stick whatever color you want in front of it.

    I sort of grew up with the term. You weren’t to act like ‘Poor White Trash.’ Big admonition for a kid. At worst it is a culturally elitist term. Granted, it isn’t polite. But I would have to disagree that it is racist. Perhaps there is just an angle I haven’t thought of regarding the term.

  124. park'd said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:38 pm:
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    “Gifted writer”? You really need to start reading more often…

    I agree that if the amnesty bill is pushed, that it will result in civil unrest the likes of which this country has not seen. The 60’s will pale in comparison. When Americans see 20+ million illegal aliens jumping for joy in the streets after they have pulled off the crime of the century and been given a free pass for it, there will be many, many angry Americans that will want justice. Don’t say I didn’t warn you. I am a bit of a Harry Seldonist for any of you Asimov Foundation buffs out there and the logic of an outcome for each specific action is clear.

  125. BL said on 23 Jul 2007 at 8:58 pm:
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    White trash as pertaining to crime from everything I have been able to find Latinos rank # number of all ethic groups both in Crime, Welfare & School drop out rates.

    INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
    2006 (First Quarter)
    95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
    83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
    86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
    75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
    24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
    40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
    48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
    29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually
    53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
    50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
    71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport coyotes”.
    47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.
    63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens
    66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.
    380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens and, under our laws, entitled to invite the rest of their family to join them.
    97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.
    66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

  126. BL said on 23 Jul 2007 at 9:07 pm:
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    A recent study sheds a little more light on Illegal Aliens!

    A recent study by the Pew Hispanic Center reveals the following:

    (1) Hispanics are 3 times more likely than non-Hispanics to receive welfare

    (2) Hispanics account for 3/4 of the increase in poverty in the USA

    (3) 45% of Hispanic children are born out of wedlock

    (4) Hispanic women are 2.54 times more likely to than white women to have abortions

    (5) Hispanic men are 9 times more likely than white men to beat their partners

    (6) Hispanics are 3 times more likely than whites to die of AIDS

    (7) They are 4 times more likely to die of tuberculosis

    ( Hispanics are 2 times more likely to be incarcerated than non-Hispanics

    (9) They are 3.8 times more likely to be in prison for murder than non-Hispanics

    (10) Hispanic youth are 19 times more likely to be in gangs

    (11) Hispanics are 3 times more likely than non-Hispanics to drop out of high school

    (12) 55% of Mexican-Americans consider themselves to be Mexican first

    How could such statistics be overlooked by the liberal media? Intentionally. They are inconvenient. They contradict the myth that liberals and neoconservatives wish to propagate: the “proposition nation.”

    Since the liberal Enlightenment, liberals and (more recently) neoconservatives have championed the idea of a “proposition nation,” which is a radical break from Western Civilization. What is the proposition nation? It is an abstraction with no real place in culture, time or history. It is the view that by merely believing in a few abstractions (e.g. the American flag is good) one can achieve national identity. If Sanchez believes in X, Y, Z, then, By God, he can be a citizen too!

  127. Fred Fishbuster said on 23 Jul 2007 at 9:15 pm:
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    Prince William County is doing what the Congress and Bush Administration should be doing. Illegal immigration is a federal matter but the local governments must step in when necessary and pass laws for the public good. It has long been necessary for our government, whether local, state of federal, to take action and enforce our immigration laws. They should enforce the current laws before they try to change them. The Prince William resolution attempts to enforce our current laws. The reason why the current laws are racists and don’t work is that the government won’t enforce them equally to all illegal immigrants. If the Illegals ( ALL illegal immigrants) don’t obey the current laws, what makes us think they will obey any new ones?

    This view is not racists. As a Vietnam Era U. S. Army veteran, I was willing to fight and die for the USA which is the best country the world has ever seen. The USA isn’t perfect but the freedoms we have, especially freedom of speech, is worth my dying for. The federal government (Feds) always enforce the laws against illegal immigrants like the Haitians and send them back to Hattie where they belong. Even if they reach the shores of the US and their government is denying them political freedoms like in Cuba, the Feds round them up and send them back. When the Haitian boat people tried to invade the USA, Clinton asked no questions and took no prisoners. He not only sent them back but had Colin Powel invade Hattie to keep them there. No questions asked.
    YET the Bush Administration and current Democratic Congress gives the Hispanics a pass. Why? Could it be because the Republicans favor American businesses and want to exploit them as a cheap labor work force and the Democrats expect them to vote democratic if they grant them amnesty and make them citizens?

    The solution is simple. If the Bush Administration would lock ALL Illegals up, the Illegals would go back home on their own. One night in jail on the first time caught. Let them out and give them 30 days to leave the country. One week in jail the second time, a month the third time, two months, three, four, ya-da, ya-da, ya-da, etc. Nobody wants to stay in jail. Like Chicken George said in the movie Roots, “Don’t nothing beat freedom. Nothing!” The Illegals would gladly go back to their own country the same way they got here.

    Here’s another simple Federal action. All the Feds have to do is to lock up the employers of illegal aliens as well under the same plan starting with just one night. This would cut off the money flow and the motivation for coming to the USA. If they can’t get jobs there is no reason to come to America. Lockup their landlords if they don’t check their immigration status. The banks must not let them send money back to their country unless they can prove they are here legally. Lock up the Feds in the Social Security Administration who accept multiple payments on social security numbers without sending a notice to the employers that they are being defrauded.

    And most of all, stop the racists enforcement of our immigration laws. Treat all Illegals like Haitians. Why doesn’t anybody want to make the racist enforcement of immigration laws the real issue. We all know why it is the way it is. That’s just the way America is about enforcement of laws and that point must not be ignored. It ain’t fair and the problem ain’t gonna be fixed unless all Illegals are treated like the Haitian boat people and not like the Cubans or Vietnamese boat people. Vietnam was our alley in war and we left them high and dry. We owe the people who support us asylum in any country we invade. Since the Bush administration isn’t going to invade Mexico to keep them there, the least they should do is to send them back.
    If they meet the requirements, the Feds could invite the Illegals of military age to join the military and earn their citizenship. I volunteered after I finished college and proudly served our country during the Vietnam War era. It made a better man out of me and is a fair path to citizenship for any Illegal man or woman.
    Here’s a point to ponder: One estimate is that the average Illegal pays $10,000 in taxes and get $30,000 in benefits. With the Baby Boomers retiring, our Social Security, Medicade and Medicare programs are in serious trouble financially and we can’t afford to make 20 million illegal immigrants citizens. The only solution is for them to go back and return legally or earn their citizenship by joining the military and fighting terrorism. Freedom just isn’t free.
    Another point: Who profits from this disparity of the application of immigration laws? American businesses give American jobs away to Illegals and make more profit while they send even more jobs overseas. Who did the jobs the illegal immigrants did before the Feds stopped enforcing the laws? Americans did it for a fair minimum wage after the American labor movement in the 1920s and 30s.
    If the American businesses stop paying their CEOs millions of dollars a year plus millions in bonuses and return to paying the American workers a fair wage, they could find people to do the jobs the Illegals do. The Washington Post stated that in the 1970s the average CEO made 40 times the average worker of his corporation. Now, the average CEO makes 500 times the average worker. They send jobs overseas and pay Illegals below minimum wage to make those countless millions while cutting health care and job security for American workers.

    Who suffers? The American middle class do by paying higher taxes for welfare, education and health insurance for Illegals who just make CEOs rich.

    The point is simple and the American people must support their local politicians and encourage them to do exactly what Prince William County is trying to do. All Illegals MUST go back to their country or serve in the military in this time of need and earn their citizenship or wait their turn to immigrate legally in order to solve this problem. SEND THEM ALL BACK - JUST LIKE THE HAITIANS. God Bless America!

    Freddie Fishbuster from Fort Washington, MD

  128. Anonymous said on 23 Jul 2007 at 10:13 pm:
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    “That’s funny, all the little mini motorcycle riders and out of control kids running around in my neighborhood are of the Hispanic variety.”

    They are white here… and I am not in Blooms. Ugly takes many colors around here in MP.

  129. TheWatchdog said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:38 am:
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    I just learned about your site from the newspaper article.

    I’m an anti-illegal immigration activist in Los Angeles, otherwise known as Aztlan to the Reconquistas. I post lots of videos on the invasion at my site.

    I’m sure glad there are more groups forming across the country.

  130. The Ayatolla of Rack'n'Rolla! said on 24 Jul 2007 at 3:16 am:
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    Hey Park’d,

    Do you think BVBL might be the Mule?

  131. Legal2 said on 24 Jul 2007 at 6:58 am:
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    How about if the Feds pull out of the border they keep promising to protect, and the border state governments run that job. Maybe the fences would get built and the agents would be allowed to do their jobs.

  132. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:37 am:
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    Now we must keep this momentum.

  133. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:41 am:
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    Good article on attrition: http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2098&mode=thread&order=1&thold=0
    Happy reading!

  134. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:52 am:
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    Interesting read: http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty278.htm
    Happy reading!

  135. park'd said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:06 am:
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    I fear there will be no mule in this scenario. A mule is badly needed to veer us off the course that we are currently on. Tancredo is the only person that comes close to being a mule but his chances of ever winning an election are slim to none. We are screwed.

  136. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:09 am:
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    Tancredo is actually doing quite well in the Iowa straw poll activities. More and more people are getting to know who he is. We must continue to educate everyone about him. It will take a grassroots candidate like Tancredo to get things back on track. http://www.teamtancredo.com/
    Plenty of good information at the link above.

  137. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:13 am:
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    This is why we need Tancredo (someone who doesn’t pander to the NCLR): http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070723/NATION/107230063/1001
    Go Tancredo!

  138. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:15 am:
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    This is how powerful the NCLR is: http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070722/NATION/107220053/1001
    Happy Reading!

  139. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:25 am:
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    How our elections could be impacted!

  140. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:27 am:
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    Our ERs!

  141. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:07 am:
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  142. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:14 am:
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    Screwing things up - leave it to the liberals in CT!

  143. White Trash said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:21 am:
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    I have read the web sites you have posted. Interesting. However, I’d ask you to look over the following wen site:


    It is an interesting site overall. Here is a section that I find quite interesting:

    “We must first ask if the 19th century American environment contained enough fear or hatred of the Irish community to support the existence of the NINA sentiment? Did the Irish-American community constitute an “Other” that was reviled and discriminated against? Did more modern Americans recoil in disgust at the premodern Irish immigrants? The evidence suggests that all the criticism of the Irish was connected to one of three factors, their “premodern” behavior, their Catholicism, and their political relationship to the ideals of republicanism. If the Irish had enemies they never tried to restrict the flow of Irish immigration. 6 Much louder was the complaint that the Irish were responsible for public disorder and poverty, and above all the fears that the Irish were undermining republicanism. These fears indeed stimulated efforts to insert long delays into the citizenship process, as attempted by the Federalists in 1798 and the Know Nothings in the 1850s. Those efforts failed. As proof of their citizenship the Irish largely supported the Civil War in its critical first year. 7 Furthermore they took the lead in the 1860s in bringing into citizenship thousands of new immigrants even before the technicalities of residence requirements had been met. 8 The Irish claimed to be better republicans than the Yankees because they had fled into exile from aristocratic oppression and because they hated the British so much. 9

    The use of systematic violence to achieve Irish communal goals might be considered a “premodern” trait; it angered many people and three bloody episodes proved it would not work in conflict with American republicanism. In 1863 the Irish rioted against the draft in New York City; Lincoln moved in combat troops who used cannon to regain control of the streets and resume the draft. In 1871 the Irish Catholics demanded the Protestant Irish not be allowed an Orange parade in New York City, but the Democratic governor sent five armed regiments of state militia to support the 700 city police protecting the one hundred marchers. The Catholics attacked anyway, and were shot down by the hundreds. In the 1860s and 1870s the Molly Maguires used midnight assassination squads to terrorize the anthracite mining camps in Pennsylvania. The railroad brought in Pinkertons to infiltrate the Mollys, twenty of whom were hung. In every instance Irish Catholics law enforcement officials played a major role in upholding the modern forms of republicanism that emphasized constitutional political processes rather than clandestine courts or mob action. In each instance the Irish leaders of the Catholic Church supported modern republicanism. 10 After the [End Page 406] 1870s the Irish achieved a modern voice through legitimate means, especially through politics and law enforcement. Further enhancing their status as full citizens making a valuable contribution to the community, the Catholics built monumental churches (which were immediately and widely praised), as well as a massive network of schools, colleges, hospitals, orphanages and other charitable institutions.”.

    Didn’t the discussion of Irish immigrants in the 1800s sound a lot like the discussion of Hispanic immigrants now? And … does anybody really think that the US would be better off today without the Irish immigrants of the 1800s?

    I am looking into the statistics regarding criminal behavior by illegal aliens. Those stats (as reported on this site) are pretty freightening.

    Finally, I sometimes think that the Hispanic immigrants (legal and illegal) made one big mistake - they settled in the suburbs rather than the cities. I am guessing that the Hispanics in Prince William County (and Fairfax County) are the only really poor people that the people in those counties know. I honestly think that the economic disparity is causing the culture shock more than anything specific to the immigrants’ Hispanic backgrounds. Growing up relatively poor in relatively rich Fairfax County was eye opening for me. Fortunately for me, I have light skin, brown hair and blue eyes. So, I could buy a suit, try to iron out most of the southern accent and avoid words like “ain’t”. Then, I could “pass” for something other than poor white trash. I feel genuinely sorry for those living in Northern Virginia who will always be seen as “illegal” or “criminal” or “bad for America” based on their physical appearance or Spanish accent.

  144. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:22 am:
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    From one of Patriot’s xenophobic articles “…they methodically take over American neighborhoods and create their own enclaves filled with more of their own.”

    In a country where property is, you know, *owned* with deeds and stuff, how exactly are they “taking over”? You don’t like people of other ethnicities living next to you, so you make the decision to move away. That’s not “taking over”; it’s “I can’t stand the Others.” We’ve heard this junk before:

    In the mid-1800s: “Those negroes are creating their own enclaves and daring to mix with white folks.”

    In the late 1800s on the West Coast: “Those Celestials [Chinese] are leaving the mining camps and creating their own enclaves in our cities! What will become of us?”

    In the late 1800s on the East Coast: “Those damned Micks/Eyeties/Pollocks/Squareheads are moving in to our neighborhoods and taking them over.”

    Then in the mid-1900s you get the negro thing again when those silly black folks think they should be allowed to vote and have other basic human rights. Imagine!

    In the late 1900s it was: “The gays! The gays are moving in! They want to make all our kids gay too! The horror!”

    This is just more racist, xenophobic BS. It’s a lot easier to distract all you dimwits with the bread and circuses of immigration–to yell “Booga booga! The spics are coming and soon you’ll all be worshipping Che Guevara and eating tacos and speaking Spanish and driving cars with dingle-balls in the back window and then gang members will climb in your windows and RAPE YOU AND GIVE YOU LEPROSY HAHAHAHA!!!” and you all eat that stuff up, and meanwhile completely ignore the fact that your government is curtailing your rights, monitoring you, seizing your property, sending your kids off to die pointlessly in a pointless war, ruining your environment, wasting resources, fixing elections, racing headlong toward disaster and ruin, but you go right ahead and get all worked up that the family next to you is browner and talks funny. But god forbid you should actually go next door and talk with them and get to know them and trade recipes with them and expand your horizons–no, it’s a lot better to cry like a little titty-baby to your local legislature to enact a bunch of racist policies and to sit home tattling to the local Gestapo every time you think there’s too many people living in one home.

  145. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:40 am:
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    Onan…why do you keep bringing race into the argument. Why don’t you contact “You Don’t Speak for Me” and see what you find out. They are legal hispanics against illegal immigration. I agree with their position.

  146. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:41 am:
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    Onan…furthermore…anyone (regardless of race) is more than welcome to come here legally. What are your comments to this?

  147. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:42 am:
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    1. Do you support people coming here illegally and residing here illegally?
    2. Do you condone identity theft?
    3. Do you condone stealing benefits that are for legal residents?
    Please answer these specific questions.

  148. Legal2 said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:43 am:
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    redawn - they are creating a database for us to use when we get the deportation ball rolling! (They are also harboring, aiding & abetting which is a felony.) They need to be sued for that.

  149. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:44 am:
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    Onan…one more question since you like to dwell on race…which group of people do you think have abused our immigration laws the most? Please be honest.

  150. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:53 am:
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    Onan…a simple yes or no answer will suffice.

  151. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:54 am:
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    For the questions 1-3. And a simple answer for the “group” question.

  152. White Trash said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:07 am:
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    In fairness to Onan some of the commentary (not necessarily yours) clouds the difference between legally immigrated Hispanics and illegals. There is sometimes (repeat: sometimes) an overtone of paranoia that the Latinos are/will take over without distinguishing legal vs. illegal immigration.


    What’s with all the hostile rhetoric? It is certainly a fair question to ask whether the existing immigration laws should be enforced. Personally, I think all laws should be either enforced or changed. In the case of immigration I am apparently one of the few people who thinks Bush was on the right track with his failed amnesty program. However, I also believe that any amnesty program needs to be “one time” and must be accompanied by a nearly religious closing of our borders to illegal immigration in the future. I also firmly believe that English should be the official language of the United States and there should be a constitutional amendment in support of that belief.

    I struggle with a systematic program to deport the people who are already here - legally or not. Many of the illegals have been here a long time, they work hard and fill positions that would be unfilled - at least in Northern Virginia.

    Now, for those who commit felonies - good bye. Long jail terms for citizens and deportation for illegals.

    It seems to me that Waukeegan has a better plan than Prince William because Waukeegan focuses on getting rid of the criminal element.

  153. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:19 am:
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    There is one flaw in your argument…..illegal aliens are criminals!
    1. Entered unlawfully.
    2. Reside here unlawfully.
    3. Steal benefits that belong to legal residents.
    4. Commit identity theft and document forgery.
    5. Aid and abet other illegal aliens.

  154. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:30 am:
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    “However, I also believe that any amnesty program needs to be “one time” and must be accompanied by a nearly religious closing of our borders to illegal immigration in the future.”

    History provides a valuable lesson that this isn’t going to happen. Case in point: The 1986 amnesty.

    I’d be far less skeptical of their claims if they closed the borders FIRST.

    By not doing so and making noise about an amnesty increases the number of illegal border crossings, which I suspect was their goal all along.

  155. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:32 am:
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    “In a country where property is, you know, *owned* with deeds and stuff”

    Stop paying your property taxes and see how long you still “own” that property.

  156. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:34 am:
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    “I am guessing that the Hispanics in Prince William County (and Fairfax County) are the only really poor people that the people in those counties know.”

    That’s a fairly good guess, as the only way you can make it in those counties if you’re poor is to live 12 to a house.

    Everyone else (who doesn’t want to live that way) moved away..to Fredericksburg and other cheaper outlying suburbs.

  157. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:42 am:
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    1. No, I don’t support it. I don’t support breaking the law in general, but of course I do. I speed when I shouldn’t. I sneak more than 3.2 oz or whatever it is of liquids on airplanes. I’ve kept my pocket knife on me when I go places where weapons are forbidden. I’ve gone a few days over the limit on getting my car inspected. I blaspheme (technically a crime in VA–look it up!) I break the law because those were “victimless” crimes (especially blasphemy).

    Like Mr. Feltersnatch said above, illegal immigration, stacked against all the other sins of society, is not really worth getting upset over. It’s not quite victimless (The government doesn’t get tax money from those being paid under the table. On the other hand, I know four fellow true-blooded Americans who also shelter income that way. And, to make matters worse, some illegals do pay into social security using phony SSNs, which means they pay in but don’t recover. And it allows businesses to pay lower wages which is good for me in the short-term pragmatic sense insofar as I get lower prices. You need to be a freaking economist to untangle the actual economic effect.), but it’s not seriously “victimful” in my opinion. I’m way more upset about Halliburton scoring a multi-billion dollar contract outside the legal procurement process than I am some illegal getting $20/day in food stamps to eat whatever crap food you can buy on $20/day. [Note, Mr. Barbarian does not know if it’s really $20; he merely surmises and guesses it’s the right order of magnitude.]

    So I’m technically against it, but in a pragmatic sense I fail to see what the big deal is. I fail to see how I’m MORE affected by illegal immigration than I am by, say, the neo-fascist cabal that’s currently intent on treating the Constitution the same way a john treats a Tijuana hooker.

    2. I do not condone identity theft. Not all illegals perform identity theft. Not all who practice identity theft are illegals. It’s like the leprosy argument. SOME illegals COULD POTENTIALLY spread leprosy. In practice, that doesn’t happen so much. SOME illegals are engaging in identity theft. So are some suburban white teenagers. Should we round them up too? (Oh, how I wish we could, though.)

    3. Do I condone “stealing” benefits? The illegals are coming here whether we want them to or not. There is a demand from them. (When’s the last time you saw a white guy roofing a house or trimming a hedge or shucking a crab or picking a strawberry?) That’s a fact. Until you build a ginormous freaking fence all the way around the country (coasts and that part bordering Canada–not just the hot dry sandy part), and only let Americans in who have been properly branded with the new Microsoft IdentityChiperoo (TM), they’re going to be there. Does it not profit me to have them cared for? Should their children not be educated? Seen to by doctors? Be given proper nutrition? Fercryinoutloud, I’m an atheist and I apparently know more about Christian charity than most right-wing-nuts who publicly proclaim their faith on one hand, then deny the teachings of their invisible friend to help the less fortunate. You cry that these illegals don’t speak English and have diseases. Well, how about teaching their kids and getting them some base level of medical care? Because I really can’t think of a country that’s done well when it develops a large enough underclass that’s ignored by any semblance of social services (ancient Rome, late 18th century France, buncha African nations).

    I see “stealing” these services as a pragmatic necessity. The illegals are here. Might as well see to them. Again, the amount of my tax money that goes to give them a hot meal or doctor’s visit is pretty miniscule compared to what it takes to continue to bomb democracy into other countries.

    As for the group question, I’ve no idea what group has abused immigration laws the most. What do you mean? For all time? Do we scale it by the country’s population for that time period? Now? If it’s “now” I’d imagine it would be Mexicans. We have two borders. The folks to the north of us live a pretty good life and don’t need to sneak in. The folks to the south have crappy lives and can just walk up here. What’s your point.

    And now a question for you, and all of you who say, “Oh it’s got nothing to with race. I just want them to come here legally. I oppose the fact that they’re here illegally. They should follow the laws.”

    My question(s) is this: Without looking it up, do you know, off the top of your head what the process is for “coming here legally,” how much it costs, how long it takes, to how many people this privilege is afforded, how that number compares to the number of illegals already here? This is the thing Republicans typically do–come up with a naive, disingenuous solution to a problem, and then consider the matter dispensed with. E.g., “We don’t need welfare. Everyone should just work real hard and earn a lot of money.” “Traffic is terrible on 95, so we’ll institute HOT lanes. Now you’ll always be able to move as long as you can pay.” Same thing with the illegal immigrant question. “I just want them to follow the law” is just an excuse to cover up for your racism against latinos. What the hell does it matter if they’re here legally or illegally? They’re still going to be scrubbing crappers and picking lemons, living with multiple families in one home, speaking spanish, flying their own flags on their ethnic holidays, listening to salsa, being poor and sponging off social services on occasion. “Legally” is just a disingenuous argument. You don’t give a rat’s potoot about their legal status. It’s just a convenient way to get rid of a minority group you don’t want to have to come in contact with because they look and sound different than you.

    Really, if we plunked the magic twanger and these folks all attained the instant status of “legal” how would your life be different? Would there be fewer of them on social services? You think they still wouldn’t find ways to get paid under the table and avoid taxes here and there?

  158. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:43 am:
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    How peaceful!

  159. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:45 am:
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  160. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:49 am:
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    More Ridiculous!

  161. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:52 am:
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    And here’s a shocker for you all. I was once illegal myself. Don’t get your panties in a bunch, I’m American and can trace my roots back to the Mayflower. I’m as white as they come. But I worked for a while in Switzerland–an academic job. Technically, I was there illegally. Why? Because according to the letter of the law, it was technically impossible for me to come there and work for the time that I did. The sheer amount of bureaucracy involved was ludicrous, and at times contradictory. “Do step A before step B or you fail,” said one rule, “Do step B before step A or you fail” said another.

    And you know what else? I lived with four other dudes in a small apartment. I didn’t learn the language. I flew the US flag on Independence day. I made fun of the Swiss behind their uptight, cheese-eating backs. I got a cheap bus pass meant for citizens.

    There is, to be sure, a world of difference between my brief academic life amongst the Alps, and the sins of a peripatetic lemon picker sneaking into this country and popping out kids on our dime. First world to first world is different than third world to first world (but if you’ve been to Switzerland, you might doubt its First World status). But this is what gives me some amount of sympathy for these folks. Sometimes, to get ahead in life, infiltrating another country is what it takes. Switzerland provided me opportunities I didn’t have in the country. The US provides Mexicans some opportunities they don’t have. I might not have followed all the rules, but I think I provided the Swiss with some value. I’m sorry I didn’t learn French and annoyed people in shops by insisting on English. They got over it. I see parallels in the US/Mexico world.

  162. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:53 am:
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  163. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:55 am:
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    Onan…you are no better than the illegals coming here!

  164. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:55 am:
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    Onan…plenty of people come here LEGALLY! There is no excuse!

  165. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:56 am:
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    The Swiss should have deported you!

  166. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:00 pm:
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    ”And here’s a shocker for you all. I was once illegal myself. Don’t get your panties in a bunch, I’m American and can trace my roots back to the Mayflower.”

    It still doesn’t make it right. That’s like smoking a “little” crack.

  167. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:05 pm:
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    “Onan…plenty of people come here LEGALLY! There is no excuse!”

    Ah, disingenuousness at its best! This rich dude over here didn’t have any problem immigrating to this country, therefore problem solved! Just sweep the fact that poor Jesus (that’s Hay-soos, not the magical zombie of Christian fame) can’t even scrape up enough money for the internet cafe to download the documents that tell him how much it’ll cost to immigrate legally under the rug.

    “The Swiss should have deported you!”

    Excellent point! Let’s examine it. I came to Switzerland to do a job that no Swiss wanted (really, were qualified for). I got that job done. They got some tax money out of me. I spent money I made while there in local stores, restaurants, and on rent. I benefitted professionally.

    Now suppose I were deported. I wouldn’t have benefited, they wouldn’t have gotten that tax money, the stores and barkeeps and landlords wouldn’t have gotten my money, and the job wouldn’t have been done.

    Deportion ==> everybody loses
    I stick around on the sly ==> everybody wins

    So why should they have deported me?

  168. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:06 pm:
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    Like his idol, he didn’t inhale.

  169. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:07 pm:
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    Wow, it’s great to be in a thread with people who have never broken any law anywhere. Good to know such fine, sinless people. You must be the ones driving exactly the speed limit or a bit under it in the left hand lane. God bless y’all.

  170. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:08 pm:
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    I am also a direct 8th gen Mayflower decendant. I am related to gov. Bradford, Pricilla Mullen, John Alden, George Soule and Mercy Alden Soule and I think they would have kicked you off the boat at that time.

  171. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:12 pm:
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    Of course they’d have kicked me off the boat. These were a people so religiously uptight the British–the freaking British!!!–kicked them out of their country. You think they’d have put up with a scientifically minded, liberal atheist for one minute?

    By the way all you “They’re illegal! They should follow the law!!” folks, answer me this. How many of you have bought stuff online and then filled out the Virginia Use Tax forms and sent them the tax for that stuff? [sound of crickets] Nobody? Really? Uh-oh. Looks like we need to deport you all or throw you in jail, you degenerate law-breakers you!

  172. Had to Say said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:13 pm:
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    White Trash-”However, I also believe that any amnesty program needs to be “one time” and must be accompanied by a nearly religious closing of our borders to illegal immigration in the future.”

    Are you not aware of the “one time” amnesty given to illegals in 1986? All the same things were promised to the American public as what was proposed recently in the Senate.

    Why would the American citizens expect the Federal government to keep it’s promises now? For years they have done NOTHING about the border or the illegal alien problem.

  173. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:18 pm:
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    Onan….quit trying to make excuses because that is what they are. Illegal aliens operate at the expense of many others on the dimes of others. There is a difference in the character of those that come here legally and illegally. If the process was “too difficult” (as you say) I suppose we wouldn’t have the volumes of LEGAL immigrants that we do would we? I think NOT!

  174. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:22 pm:
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    Patriot, I was kind enough to answer (in detail) each of your questions. Will you not favor me with a reply as to whether or not you are intimately familiar with the process of “legally” coming here, the costs that might be entailed, and the quotas? Oh, and do you pay your use tax, or is that just too difficult for you?

    We don’t follow all laws, to the letter, 100% of the time.

  175. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:24 pm:
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    …And can you explain what magical quality instantly affixes to a legal person, vice an illegal one? Do the lemons he picks taste sweeter? Are his welfare checks smaller? Is his English better? Is his skin whiter?

  176. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:30 pm:
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    Onan…your excuses are ridiculous. Under your logic if a person needs money they should go steal is that about right? Ask the individuals who have used the process legally. They will tell you that the reward was worth it!

  177. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:31 pm:
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    So are you saying that there should not be ANY laws,guidelines, etc? Is this your answer? ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING GOES?

  178. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:32 pm:
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    Onan…have you presented your “case” to the “You Don’t Speak for Me” organization yet? Please report your findings!

  179. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:36 pm:
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    Perhaps Onan will understand this….

    I bought a bird feeder.
    I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed.
    Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.

    But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue.
    Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table…everywhere.

    Then some of the birds turned mean: They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket.
    And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.

    After a while, I couldn’t even sit on my own back porch anymore. I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone.

    I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.
    Soon, the back yard was like it used to be…quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

    Now lets see…our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be a automatic citizen.
    Then the illegals came by the tens of thousands.

    Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families: you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor: your child’s 2nd grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn’t speak English:
    Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press “one” to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than “Old Glory” are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.

    Maybe it’s time for the government to take down the bird feeder.

  180. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:38 pm:
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    Just to be helpful, because I want folks like redawn and The Patriot to be fully in compliance with the law, here


    is the Consumer Use Tax form. Remember, if you buy something via catalog, or internet, or phone, or just in an outlet store outside of Virginia, state law says you have to pay a special tax on it to Virginia.

    I know how you hate law breaking so much, so I know you’ll want to rush right out and take care of this. Better do it for the past three years, too. I mean, it’s the law. We have to obey the law, right? RIGHT? Otherwise, you’d just a be a dirty, hypocritical illegal.

  181. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:49 pm:
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    ManAss AsCityResident–

    Or it’s like this. The other day I bought a completely pointless analogy. I brought it home and said it was like one thing, but it really didn’t have anything to do with it at all.

    So where do the birds in your analogy go? Out of your yard, so it’s not your problem anymore, right? See the problem with that? Did you consider a happy medium solution? Why is it just a binary choice: feeder or no feeder?

    Have your taxes gone up to pay for services? Mine haven’t. My property tax bill went down $20 this year. I don’t recall my federal tax rate changing, and I don’t remember sales tax going up. Where are these phantom rises?

    What emergency rooms are you going to? I’ve been on rare occasions (for others, fortunately) and haven’t seen these waits. Maybe it’s because I have health insurance. Illegals don’t and tend to get crappy care (i.e., waiting for six hours). And what kind of incompetent teacher just flounders around going, “Derrr….these kids don’t speak no English, so I can’t teach any of them…derrrr…” Sounds like a problem with the quality of the teacher.

    But the greatest part of your post was the part where you light up the giant neon sign that says “I’m a big stupid racist.”

    “Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to press “one” to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than “Old Glory” are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.”

    OH MY GOD! The horror! You have to see Spanish on your cornflakes. How do the Canadians cope??? Sweet zombie Jesus, you have to push another button on your phone (here’s a hint, nitwit, IT’S ALWAYS FREAKING ONE FOR ENGLISH. PUSH IT RIGHT AWAY. DON’T WAIT. HAVE YOU NO LEARNING CURVE?”)??? How awful for you! And people waving different flags in the street, as though other countries exist??? OH NOES!!!!!!!!! How do you survive? How do you manage with the thought that there are people out there who don’t live like you do? It must be dreadful.

    You, sir, are a racist. You cloak your racism in silly analogies, but that doesn’t excuse the fact. I pity you.

  182. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:54 pm:
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    Onan…there you go! Typical of a liberal screaming about nonsense avoiding the actual facts.

  183. Anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:54 pm:
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    Onan writes: “My question(s) is this: Without looking it up, do you know, off the top of your head what the process is for “coming here legally,” how much it costs, how long it takes, to how many people this privilege is afforded, how that number compares to the number of illegals already here?”

    Ok, I KNOW it is difficult and guess what, NOTHING worthwhile comes easy - kind of like FREEDOM!!! My GRANDPARENTS did it LEGALLY, just like many on this blog have ancestors who came legally.

    “No white person will do the work” - here’s an idea, try it. IF what you say is true, let the PRISONER’S do the work. Oh, I just had my deck done and guess what…non Hispanic - go figure.

    Ok, you break the speed limit and equate that to sneaking over the border. I drive over the limit because if I don’t, my car will be rear-ended by the jerk screaming up behind me - it’s called SURVIVAL and even the police will give you a 5-10mph buffer.

    So you went to Switzerland, realized that you were not good enough to be with them (oh yeah, you were there illegally as well) so you feel that if you are against illegals here, you are a hypocrite. Dude, YOU are the reason Americans have a bad rap overseas. It’s too bad they did not bust your sorry ass and throw you in jail. But then again, you don’t deserve jail in Switzerland…Mexico, maybe…

  184. Concerned said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:55 pm:
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    I guess “Howie” and the other open-minded liberals who have been posting to this site recently would consider me “white trash” also. I grew up in the South and strongly oppose allowing illegal aliens to remain in our country, bilk the taxpayers, and demand that we conform to their culture rather than that they assimilate into American culture.

    However, I resent Howie’s stereotypical generalizations about Hispanic immigrants. My next-door neighbors are a family of legal immigrants from Mexico who are nothing like his description of Hispanic immigrants. Moreover, they share our concerns about the illegals setting up boarding houses in our neighborhood and the anonymous criminals living there. We’re good friends and our kids play together all the time (by the way, these legal Mexican immigrants prefer for their kids to play with my “white trash” kids rather than hang out around the illegal boarding houses).

    I also forgot about how all of us “white trash” hate blacks. Maybe Howie can explain that to the legal Haitian immigrant family who has been residing in a rental townhouse I own in Fairfax County for several years; who have taken care of the property wonderfully and always paid their rent on time. I guess I’m just not pulling my part of the “white trash” load to hate anyone different than myself and deny housing opportunities to non-white (legal) immigrants.

    Of everyone posting on BVBL the past couple of days the most rascist and bigoted have been these “liberals.” Moreover, American culture is not Anglo or Germanic, or any other specific culture. It is a blend of everyone from all over the world into a unique “American” way of life and bound together by English as the common language. I’ve travelled a lot and even worked a couple of times in Europe. The United States is not a “European” culture. My ancesters are mostly from Wales but I’m American rather than Welsh. The true rascists and bigots are those who would dispense with American culture and replace it with purely Hispanic or any other single culture.

  185. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:55 pm:
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    Onan…again…let us know what you find out from our friends “You Don’t Speak for Me”.

  186. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 12:58 pm:
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    Concerned, that bit about the “melting pot” is what we have been saying over and over again! You are correct! The liberals dodge those items. Anyone is welcome here as long as you come here legally and assimilate into the Amercian “melting pot” common culture.

  187. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:00 pm:
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    Onan…why don’t you research NCLR. You will find their position very one-sided.

  188. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:01 pm:
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    You haven’t anwered my question. So are you saying any/ everything goes?
    Where do YOU draw the line? Would you have me arrested I infringed upon your rights or properties?

  189. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:07 pm:
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    Onan -
    I guess you can’t take the truth….so you ridicule and make fun of and completely go off the point of every post here : legal vs. illegal. You are an ignorant fool and a racist to boot. I’m pretty darn sure you are not who you say you are. Dodge every question posted to you - you coward!

  190. Anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:10 pm:
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    Onan the Barbarian: Your comments spew of hate. It’s not that we “press 1″ that makes us angry, it’s that we “have” to because there is a segment in our population that REFUSES to learn English and people like you will ALWAYS keep that segment on the lower rungs of the success ladder. In the city of LA, there are some 100+ languages spoken at one time - why isn’t there representation of each language there? Because the VAST majority of immigrants know that in order to success in this country, learning English, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CULTURE HAS DONE WHO CAME HERE is the path to success.

    Because of YOUR racism, you defend the multi-languages that are being spoken (you brought up Canada, ok, buddy, go there and see how THEY are handling things). I say “racism” because it is your underlying belief that those of Central/South American origin CANNOT learn English so let’s just give up on them. Ok, “Onan” let’s go there. When you go to Florida to lay on the beach dreaming about how you wish you were sunning yourself in Cuba and your wallet is stolen, let’s see (if things are left unchecked) how far you get when you try and ask someone for the police and NO ONE speaks English, then, when you finally do find one…he speaks Portugese - oops, not QUITE the Spanish you failed at so miserably in the public school system. You ask for someone who speaks English and the closest person you get is a Jamican who has had just one too many tokes on his fatty.

  191. Concerned said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:17 pm:
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    What is the problem that “Onan” and the other liberals and pro-illegal advocates have with legitimate immigration laws passed by democratically-elected governments? He acknowledges having violated Switzerland’s immigration laws when it suited him and doesn’t care when others violate our laws.

    I’m a conservative “white trash” with academic credentials that would shut up Onan’s arrogance. I just don’t advertise my resume in these blogs to try to make myself appear smarter as the liberals apparently feel is necessary for themselves.

    I taught at a university in Canada previously but applied for and received the appropriate visa, and went through customs at the Toronto airport for people coming there to work.

    Maybe there really is a difference between the attitudes of conservatives and liberals toward the functioning of a democratic society. Conservatives obey the law whether they like them or not, and try to change what they don’t like. Liberals just ignore the laws they don’t like and call the rest of us rascists and bigots for disagreeing with them.

  192. Just saying... said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:21 pm:
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    This whole thread has, on the whole, been particularly amusing.

    Manassascityresident… Your bird analogy was priceless, though you have the wrong group putting up the bird feeder. It’s not the government. The actual number of illegals sucking on the public teet is pretty small as a percentage of public assistance recipients. The actual owner of the bird feeder are the businesses that rely on cheap labor to keep their products competitive in a global market. Without the jobs available for illegal aliens, the “problem” would go away over night. Of course, we’d see a quick burst of inflation and probably see a recession, but, heck, that’s worth it to get these brown-skinned, non-English speakers out of our country, right?

    Look, the incentive to come to the US legally or illegally is not the government’s public support system. If that were the case, Virginia would not be the state of choice (Virginia does not provide as many social welfare dollars per capita as other states). States that seem to be labeled as states with illegal alien “problems” tend to fall into a couple of categories: they are either high-growth states or they are heavily agricultural. What does that tell us? Illegal aliens are coming for the jobs. In high-growth states , the jobs are in home construction. In agricultural states, the jobs are in harvesting and working the fields. There is higher correlation between the unemployment rate (low in the states with illegal alien problems) and the number of illegal aliens than there is between social welfare programs and illegal aliens.

    Finally, I find is incredibly amusing to see so many blast the “left-wing” MSM when the stories are about illegal aliens contributing to the overall economy, etc., yet are very willing to quote from those very same papers the anecdotal evidence of the rapist who was an illegal alien or the murderer that was an illegal alien or the child molester that was an illegal alien. Yes, in all of those cases, the crime would not have happened if the alien had not been allowed in, but when you look at a macro level, the statistics paint a different picture. The level of crime committed by illegal aliens (apart from the original crime of entering the country illegally) is on par with or LOWER than the level of crime in the general population. So, just like people legally here have a few bad apples, people here illegally have about the same incidence of bad apples.

    Oh, and The Patriot, how about putting think about your posts and trying to consolidate them into single posts rather than these quick hit one-liners as you complete your Google searches. Your floods of several posts spaced just minutes or even seconds apart adds to the air that you’re an emotional blow-hard, not a reasonable party to a conversation or debate.

  193. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:23 pm:
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    Perfectly stated.
    Maybe Onan left because he can’t answer any of the questions posed to him…..we can only hope…..or maybe he’s frantically looking for the answers he has thus far avoided answering….I still say he’s a coward and won’t be back because he has no argument.

  194. Mando said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:24 pm:
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    Onan - I hear what you’re saying. The immagration tap probably needs to be opened more to suit economic needs. However, there will always be a market for illegals as long as it can be gotten away with. Illegals are like economic cocaine.

    Most of my neighbors are Latino and, like I’ve said before, I don’t know if they’re illegal or not. I don’t have any problems with them. I don’t mind their culture and will admit that I love their food (a bit too much). Their music annoys me (sounds like circus music) but so does other types of music. Given that, I’m certain I can live harmoneously with my Spanish neighbors as long as ordinances are followed and everyone is respectful.

    However, being illegal is an entirely different ballgame. Sure, one or two or even ten thousand illegals that overstay their visas or are here temporarily as professionals has a total negative effect of zero. But… when we’re talking 10’s of millions the negative effects will be felt - ESPECIALLY in the public sector like school and healthcare. Legal Americans pay into the system to receive benefits while illegals do not yet receive that same benefit. That $20/day adds up when you’re talking 10’s of millions of individuals (and yes, I do know not all of them are receiving assistance - but my point is still valid). ESOL is EXTREMELY expensive and from personal experience (I have loved ones in the school system) I know most of the ESOL students do not have legal parents.

    Amnesty cannot be the answer as that will lead to even more illegal immigration and possibly the collapse of the public sector (20+ million new legals competeting with millions of new illegals filling the vaccuum).

    It’s a complicated issue but I have to go with logic rather than feelings on this. Illegal immagrition at the current rate is not sustainable and Amnesty cannot be the answer.

  195. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:28 pm:
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    “Good to know such fine, sinless people. You must be the ones driving exactly the speed limit or a bit under it in the left hand lane.”

    That, actually, IS illegal in Virginia.

  196. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:36 pm:
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    Just saying….you obviously haven’t been reading my other posts. I post articles I find relevant to the arguments at hand. People can do whatever they want with them. I have asked specific questions and (as usual) liberals use the classic dodge technique. You are mistaken about the public assistance. Why don’t you go back a little bit in the thread and see who consumes the most. Better yet…why don’t you do some more research on your own. Your statements are just that…statements without research to back them up. I suppose when Senator Jeff Sessions discussed the costs of public benefits for illegal aliens and their families (which excluded enforcement costs - which could amount to trillions)…you must have missed that episode! Additionally, I use my eyes and can see who is using the public assistance in my own town on a daily basis….foodstamps are easy to see at the check out (yet…for some reason…those same people that are using the foodstamps and have 5 kids drive around in an Eddie Bauer luxury Expedition and still have plenty to send back home south of the border). Hmmm….

  197. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:36 pm:
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    redawn, the world isn’t black or white. I know this comes as a great shock to you, but that’s just the way it is. (Understanding this concept is crucial to so many debates.)

    Of course “everything goes” isn’t true. We have laws against killing people (generally; it’s OK in self defense, or as part of a military operation, or over long time scales via poisoning the environment, or as part of the duty of a law enforcement officer if the situation warrants), stealing (possession is nine tenths of the law as they say, although some say levying taxes is stealing), sexual abuse (unless it’s hot female teachers and underage male students, in which case it’s usually just winked at), and a host of others that are pretty much, apart from the exceptions noted, good laws that everyone should obey and are usually punished.

    But what about traffic laws? You ever pushed a red light? You ever go over the speed limit? Dodge into an illegal lane to avoid a broken car? Leave your headlamps off when it sprinkled? Sound your horn when unnecessary? Fail to signal? Roll through a deserted stop? You must have broken some of those laws. Are you a criminal? Did you turn yourself in? Of course not. You rolled that stop at 3 am, because there was nobody around; it was a clear intersection. It was slightly imprudent, but there was no victim. If a cop had been there you would have stopped–not so much out of concern for obeying the law but from avoiding punishment.

    You pay your CU tax? (Even if you don’t live in VA, many other states have these. MD at one time had one that you were supposed to pay if you bought something in another state, and paid less than their sales tax. Bastards.) You ever “round up” your charity donation amount on your 1040A?

    My point is, there’s lots of laws that get broken that we’re not going to get too bent out of shape about. Ever tell anyone, jokingly, that you’d kick their ass? Technically assault (it’s battery if you carry through). Do you want every single law rigorously enforced?

    I think the examples I’ve given are more petty than flouting immigration laws. I’ll certainly admit that breaking a nation’s immigration laws is a far different thing than driving 5-over the posted limit. Nevertheless, both are illegal.

    Should illegals come here illegally? Ideally, no. There’s a demand for cheap labor. I don’t see Americans wanting to pick lemons and whack at shrubs for day-laborer wages. I once wanted some help clearing a tree that had fallen on my land. I called a bunch of legit landscaping companies, and none could be bothered except one who gave a completely ludicrous fee that was meant in lieu of a turndown. I could have gone down to the 7/11 and hired some guys who would have been happy to help me out for cheap, and I almost did, until a neighbor suggested he and his teenage son (who apparently needed a beating to get himself away from video games) could help. I gave the dad some beer in return and the kid $10 (oops, that was illegal too! Child labor laws and witholding laws violated! I’m a bad man.)

    But they are here. They come because apparently they’re needed. They’re illegal because they didn’t complete some random bureaucratic process involving the generation of much paperwork. Now if that paperwork had been generated, what changes??? Nobody can answer me that. You’re really asserting that your interest in the illegal debate lies solely in someone going through the motions to acquire a particular designation?

    I’m not being facetious! I’m not one of those retards who thinks a person changing their viewpoint makes them a flip-flopper. This is your chance to win me to your side. Convince me that if we make illegals legal that Things Will Be Different. Won’t they still have bad jobs? Won’t they still hang out in the emergency room instead of having health insurance (lemon picking and shrub whacking not being traditional bastions of health insurance)? Won’t there still be kids on welfare? Or do you want to reduce the number of These People? In that case, who is going to do the lemon picking and shrub whacking? Because if it’s Americans, I don’t think anyone is going to want to pay for lemons picked by the worker who demands $15/hour, vacations, health insurance, etc. And then there’s nobody picking lemons, and no lemons to be had, and if you think I’m going to sit on the porch in the hot Virginia sun in my seersucker suit with an ice tea with no goddamn lemons in it, you sir are sorely mistaken.

    Um, so anyway what I’m getting at is that it’s hard to draw the line. People who speed are a problem. People who are illegal are a problem (I guess, I mean you tell me they are). People who lie to get us into pointless wars, people who poison the environment, people who dish out classified information, those people are a problem, and to me they’re the worst problem. Immigration, illegal and otherwise, has always been an issue. It’s been a minor issue, and rightly so (cheap lemons versus everyone following the law). But now there’s a lot of stuff going on that the powers that be would like to distract you from. Immigration is an easy distraction, because it plays to people’s innate racism and distrust of strangers.

    I think you’re using legality status as a poor excuse to enact racist policies. I mean, look at the guy above who is scared by Spanish on his cornflakes. That’s bespeaks serious mental problems. The only way he can justify his hate of hearing “Para espanol, markey el numero dos” (Onan hablo espanol muy badly) on his voice jail system is to come up with some bizarre justification involving appeals to economics (which I argue nobody understands well) or argue points of law.

    I’m really sorry so many of you want to have only white, English speaking, flag waving, NASCAR watching, country music (not the Dixie Chicks!), Jebus loving people around you. Alas, the world is more diverse than that, and we must often experience in this life other people who do not look, act, or talk as we do. Get to know them. They’re pretty much like you–want to raise kids, have a warm roof, full belly, watch the funny monkey on TV.

  198. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:38 pm:
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    “Manassascityresident… Your bird analogy was priceless”
    I agree that was good, I had a good giggle :)

  199. White Trash said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:41 pm:
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    Sometimes when you make a mistake you have to deal with the consequences.

    We went to Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction and there weren’t any. Now there’s a full blown insurrection (maybe civil war) and we can’t just leave. It doesn’t matter why we went in the first place. We just can’t leave the catastrophe that we (in large measure) created.

    We let the illegal immigrants into the country. We didn’t enforce the immigration laws. The immigrants came for the jobs and provide a meaningful contribution to the economy. They also consume social services, commit crimes (although I am still unsire as to the relative level of these crimes) and cost the government money. However, deporting every illegal alien seems to me like just walking out of Iraq. We created these messes (Iraq and illegal immigration), now we need to clean them up.

    The question of the 1986 amnesty is a good one. That was supposed to be a one time deal and it obviously was not. However, I wonder if the threat of terrorism is enough to get the government to really crack down on illegal immigration. The government now has a couple of reasons to do what they said they’d do in 1986. Maybe this time it’s enough.

  200. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:41 pm:
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    There is a legal process for a reason. It prevent too large of an influx of people that could cause an infrastructure collapse. It is that simple! Many people have gone through the process legally and enjoy the benefits that it brings. There is no excuse. Our system is NOT broken it is just NOT enforced which is why everything else is breaking!

  201. cw said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:42 pm:
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    Please Onan just share your own house, your own food, your own money with illegal aliens and leave the rest of us alone. When you have put one of them through college come back and let us know.

  202. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:45 pm:
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    The illegal alien problem is what I like to call an “engineered crisis”. I know the rule is “never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence” but I’m leaning towards malice on this particular issue. Both political parties are into it up to their eyeballs.

  203. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:45 pm:
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    I agree with cw.

  204. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:47 pm:
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    The previous amnesty that was passed in the 80’s is a lessons learned on “what not to do”! This country has been there done that and now look at the problems it has caused.

  205. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:50 pm:
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    Concerned: You’re educated, but you lack the self-awareness to see that there’s a world of difference between an academic with enough money to fly to another country and purchase a visa, and the illiterate Mexican guy who just wants to come over here and lay bricks. This is yet another example of disingenuousness. “I can do it, so everyone can!” Because every single person in Mexico has the time and resources to jump through all the arbitrary hoops we’ve set up.

    And to all those griping (incorrectly) that I’m not answering your questions, I note you’ve answered none of mine. Don’t forget to submit those CU forms….

  206. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:50 pm:
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    Onan…what would you do if you found out that an illegal alien was using your identity and social security number to operate (which is what they do)? What would you do if their activities screwed up your credit and you were not able to get a critical loan because of it? I suppose this is all okay with you since after all they are just trying to work hard and feed their families correct?

  207. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:53 pm:
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    Onan…what if illegal aliens decided that they wanted to take over your house because they needed somewhere to stay. Is this okay too? After all….they just want a better life.

  208. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:55 pm:
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    cw, That’s called a “non sequitur”. It means “doesn’t follow.” Why should I share my house with illegals and put one through college? The point of social services is that we spread those responsibilities over lots of people, so we each individually end up spending very little money on them.

    It’s kind of like if I said, if Patriot wants all the illegals gone, then we should kill everyone we catch speeding. Also, every night, we should allow the police to come search our houses to make sure we don’t have any bombs or anything. Because you don’t have anything to worry about if you have nothing to hide. Those are drastic, silly arguments. Like yours.

    Of course, Patriot agreed with you, because it was easier to bang out a four word response than to think for himself and find the flaws in your arguments.

  209. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:55 pm:
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    Onan…what about those bricklayers that have come here legally? What about them?

  210. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:57 pm:
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    Onan…answer the questions I just posed. Your response to cw is ridiculous to say the least. You are trying to compare unlike things.

  211. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:57 pm:
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    Patriot, what if elephants escaped from the zoo and stomped on my car? We should get rid of all the elephants! What if parents accidentally leave their kids unattended in cars? We should not allow cars to have windows! What if some movies make people sad? We should make all movies have happy endings!

    What are you, eight? That’s a pretty child-like view of the world.

  212. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:59 pm:
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    Again…onan…comparing unlike things (classic liberal dodge). What about the identity theft situation I asked about?

  213. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:01 pm:
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    Actually onan…a child would have the view that you have…they don’t understand how one thing may have a huge impact on many people.

  214. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:01 pm:
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    “The point of social services is that we spread those responsibilities over lots of people, so we each individually end up spending very little money on them.”

    What happens when you have more takers than givers?

  215. Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:01 pm:
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    Patriot, are you ever going to answer any of my questions? No, of course not. You have no clue what it takes to come here legally. You have no idea what would be different in a world where all those people had magically become legal, because that isn’t your goal. Your xenophobic goal (that comes from Greek, by the way, and it means “fear of that which is different”; Greece was an ancient civilization that you can learn more about when you make it eighth-grade social studies) is just to wish away all the bad, brown spanish speakers, as far as I can tell.

    Answering my questions would entail more research than dredging up the latest talking point from whatever wing-nut writer your most currently fascinated with and providing a link to some dopey special interest group’s website. I understand how hard that can be. Go have some ice cream, and tell mommy to pat you on your head and tell you what a special snowflake you are.

    Onan has left the building.

  216. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:02 pm:
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    Ignore Onan -
    He’s just dragging all of you into everything but the real issue. You are wasting your time. He’ll eventually go away.
    BTW Onan, I’m a SHE, not a HE.

  217. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:06 pm:
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    Onan…is just a socialist liberal of some sort. What is even more funny is the classic racist remarks. What part of “anyone is welcome here provided they come here legally and assimilate into the common American melting pot culture” does he/she not understand? As usual….they avoid this very statement because it exposes that their racist argument is invalid.

  218. Mando said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:25 pm:
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    The economics of hiring illegal aliens is very simple. Business is profit motivated (as they should be). Unscrupulous business is profit motivated no matter what the cost. They hire illegals becuase they are cheaper (no taxes/healthcare/need for human resources/etc.) As long as the benefit (cheap labor) outweigh the costs (potential penalties/loss of business license) then they are going to continue hiring illegals.

    Giving the illegals amnesty would would make them cost more because they now have to pay taxes and provide benefits. So 20 million illegals were just given amnesty. The unscrupulous business is still going to hire illegals as long as the benefit outweighs the cost. So you have 20 million newly minted Americans and millions more illegals coming into the country to fill the vacuum the newly minted Americans just left. We just amplified the problem (like in the 80’s).

  219. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:28 pm:
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    “Onan has left the building.”

    Don’t let the screen door hitcha where the good lord splitcha.

  220. Mando said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:28 pm:
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    Forgot to mention, you also have 20 million newly minted Americans now unemployed.

  221. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:30 pm:
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    Mando is correct. Not only unemployed, but also on welfare, foodstamps, WIC, etc.

  222. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:36 pm:
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    But they can vote. And if the Democrats pass an amnesty, they’ll get those w******s voting for them for the next 200 years.

    (To paraphrase Lyndon Baines Johnson).

  223. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 2:38 pm:
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    “Onan has left the building”

    The donkey - excuse me - the ASS has left the building and it smells better already…..no more liberal stink and turning discussion on real issues into sarcasm and nonsense!

  224. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 3:02 pm:
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    I just got done listening to a song on the radio, ” Coming to America” by Neil Diamond.Maybe we should ask him( or the songwriter) what he thinks, I didn’t hear him singing crawling over, under our borders coming to STEAL the American dream.

  225. Concerned said on 24 Jul 2007 at 3:29 pm:
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    Onan - there you go again proving exactly what I wrote. Your response was:

    “Concerned: You’re educated, but you lack the self-awareness to see that there’s a world of difference between an academic with enough money to fly to another country and purchase a visa, and the illiterate Mexican guy who just wants to come over here and lay bricks. This is yet another example of disingenuousness. “I can do it, so everyone can!” Because every single person in Mexico has the time and resources to jump through all the arbitrary hoops we’ve set up.”

    In other words, if you find legitimate laws enacted by democratically-elected governments inconvenient, just ignore them. You describe our laws as “arbitrary hoops we’ve set up.” Who are you to make that judgment? If you don’t like a law, work to change it! If you can persuade enough others through cogent debate and the democratic process that you are correct, you’ll get your way. Don’t violate the law or abet others (i.e., illegal aliens) in violating it.

    Don’t give us the standard boilerplate about everyone violating the speed limit. Anyone who violates the speed limit or other traffic laws and gets caught pays the penalty through fines and higher insurance rates. Those fines are about to get much higher in Virginia. An illegal alien violating our laws gets a multitude of free services and more protection in many jurisdictions than citizens and legal residents.

    What about the American bricklayer who needs to earn a living to support his/her family? You would probably be first in line to complain about the problem of “living wages” or minimum wages that are too low in the US. However, if illegal aliens sneak in here and take away jobs by working for less than minimum wage with no withholding or workers comp taxes, and displace the American workers, you applaud them. The big developers and other corporations are sitting back rubbing their hands gleefully while “useful idiots” like you (to borrow a Marxist-Leninist phrase) use human rights arguments to keep their supply of cheap labor flowing.

    By the way, the temporary work visa to Canada was free, and I came back home when my teaching assignment was finished and my visa expired.

  226. Mando said on 24 Jul 2007 at 3:31 pm:
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    Barring the personal attacks, Onan actually seemed reasonable in his views. Something I’ve learned when debating someone with different viewpoints is it’s better to just agree to disagree rather than name calling. When they/we resort to name calling debate just ends and nothing is accomplished.

    I can understand that most illegals are here to feed their families and given the same circumstances I’d probably do the same but instead of running from their problems 20+million discontented Mexicans could certainly accomplish alot as far as changing THEIR govt.

  227. Ben Franlklin said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:16 pm:
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    Thanks so much for your time and effort in to the problem of illegal immigration. I am consistently mind boggled how our communities continue to get sucked dry by these bloodsuckers. What is left for all of our children? Are they getting the maximum they deserve when assets are diverted to illegals? No. How about our brave veterans? Do they get in-state tuition? No.
    The system stinks to high heaven and the politicians who enable this garbage need to be fired. No benefits to illegals.

  228. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:19 pm:
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    Onan, LOL at your stuff. Great arguments. Nothing demonstrates better the racism of these folks than manassaswhatsherface’s complaint about Spanish on cereal boxes, in her telephone, and people waving flags of other countries outdoors. It proves that it’s got nothing to do with how legal or illegal the people are. They just don’t like Mexicans. Listen to their language! They’re overrunning us, they’re taking over.

    Yup, dress it up any way you want, and it still boils down to this. You guys are racists. It really would be nice to see them admit it. You should be honest in your beliefs. I’d have more respect for someone who says, “Look, Mexicans just make me feel icky. I don’t like hearing Spanish, I think brown skin is yucky, and I hate salsa music.” I can understand that. I don’t condone it, but then I hate white trash (and admit it), so I understand on a base level where these folks are coming from. But they have to go through so many loop-de-loops trying to pretend they aren’t racist that it’s gets funny after a while. Just admit it. Be happy. Accept your inner racist.

    Onan’s right. They’re clueless when it comes to defining why legality is so important. Oh, and by the way: I’ve never paid consumer use tax, and I never will. And I bet none of them have either.

  229. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:21 pm:
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    I hate rainbow trash, myself.

  230. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:24 pm:
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    LOL @ BennieFranks. Check out http://www.dvs.virginia.gov/statebenefits.htm#Education

    See the “Virginia Military Survivors and Dependents Education Program”? By the way, if you join the military there’s all kinds of Federal level programs anyway to take care of your education, so what’s the problem? How are we being sucked dry? Cause it looks to me like kids are doing just fine in our schools.

  231. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:29 pm:
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    Anonymous, trash comes in all colors, that’s for sure. White, black, yellow, brown, even pasty-white Eurotrash. I’m down on white trash, because that’s what I’ve had the most trouble with. Maybe I don’t move in the same circles you do, but where I live, if there’s someone acting trashy, it’s usually a cracker. Cars up on blocks in the front yard, kids racing around on noisy scooters, junk in the yard, house not kept up, lawn not mowed, dogs barking at all hours, usually there’s a redneck behind everyone of them.

  232. Gabe said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:38 pm:
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    I’m so glad to hear about this webpage dedicated to fighting illegal immigration. I live in Fairfax County, and the police do NOTHING about the loitering and immigration problems here. There are literally 400+ “day laborers” hanging around the Safeway to the 7-11 on the Little River Turnpike in Annandale on any given day.

    Fairfax County citizens need to unite and start battling this sanctuary status. 53% of our property taxes go to the school system, of which a large portion is dedicated to expensive ESL and special education classes for children of illegals.

  233. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:39 pm:
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    Good point on this issue. A lot of the things we see out there that we call not American are just the results of lack of education

  234. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:40 pm:
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    Howie and Onan are one in the same person, just different pen names. I couldn’t bear to think that there could be two of them in this world, thinking and talking the same trash.

    They are both racists, and THEY fall into the category of CLUELESS. The more they spew their trash, the more I realize that they just “don’t get it” and they never will…..

    They try to sound so intelligent, yet they just can’t quite grasp the meaning of illegal. They probably live in gated communities and don’t live with the illegal issue day in and day out like most of us do. So they just talk and talk….like they know what they’re talking about. Typical “demon”crats!
    Amnistia, no! Deportacion, Si!

  235. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:46 pm:
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    I agree that we need to stop the name calling but I also think that we need to start referring to illegal aliens as Mexicans. Here the majority you see are from Central America. In Chicago mostly Polish Irish in some places). Not all brown people come from Mexico. In fact some are as white as many americans.

  236. Mando said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:47 pm:
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    As webster defines, being a racist would mean I’m intolerant of another race or feel mine is superior. I’m kind of a mix-mash of races so it would be kind of hard for me to be a racist. My skin color is kind of white, but I’m mostly Hungarian and us gypsies are generally darker skinned. Maybe the Irish or Norwegian in me lightened it up. Being a mut, I’m not prone to feel superior to anybody based soley on my muttness.

    I suppose in Mr. Feltersnatche’s world it’s so much easier to label me as a racist rather than discuss the issues.

    Although it’s a good step in admitting your own racism.

  237. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:47 pm:
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    What do you think about rednecks doing the same thing that illegal immigrants do? or Blacks? or that is not politically correct? Or as long as you are american you can do whatevre you want with this country?

  238. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:48 pm:
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    We must run in different circles. I see very little what could be described as “white trash” here anymore. They’ve been priced right out, replaced with people who will happily cram 20 to a house to afford a $350k mortgage note.

    One thing I’ll give “white trash”: At least when you tell them to stop doing something that’s annoying you, they don’t pull the “no speak no english” BS.

  239. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:51 pm:
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    I hear a lot the fact that illegal aliens get a lot of services for free. I am really interested in finding out a decent source. I hear it a lot but without sources. Anecdotes that you saw something is just that, a story.

  240. Mando said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:52 pm:
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    “I agree that we need to stop the name calling but I also think that we need to start referring to illegal aliens as Mexicans.”

    I assume you mean STOP referring to them as Mexicans.

  241. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:52 pm:
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    Is the policy of overcrowding a house wroking in Herndon?

  242. redawn said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:54 pm:
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    Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 4:46 pm:
    I agree that we need to stop the name calling but I also think that we need to start referring to illegal aliens as Mexicans”

    HAH! Tell that to people from El Salvador, etc….THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

  243. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:01 pm:
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    Italian -
    Absolutely not - I had to live with “white trash” across the street from me for several years. I called the HOA and the police on him several times. I called the owners more times than I can count….and finally he left. Now I have a house on my street that has their screen door open (I assume you know what that means) and five to six trucks PLUS cars crammed onto the street, so much so, that two cars cannot pass at the same time. It’s ridiculous. We look like a used car lot.
    So NO, I do not just “pick on” illegal ALIENS, I will report anyone I see breaking the law, and that includes LEGAL American citizens.

  244. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:01 pm:
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    So we call all of them Mexicans. We should start referring to Spanish as Mexican too. ” I speak Mexican”. Salvadorans in general don’t like Mexicans but that doesn’t mean that we should call all illegal aliean mexicans. Or makes sense to you to call the Polish immigrant who doesn’t speak English Mexican? That makes sense.
    What do I need to tell Salvadorans? Or should I call them Irish?

  245. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:02 pm:
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    Do you call the HOA or police to report this issue and they don’t come?

  246. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:04 pm:
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    What is causing that white trash left Mannassas and now you have illegal aliens around?
    Are ther more jobs in that area? Who is hiring them? Do you go and protest in front of the places that hire illegal aliens? I don’t hear a lot about the people responsible for the mess. When you hire illegal aliens you are breaking the law too, but nothing gets done.

  247. ateacher said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:11 pm:
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    I wanted to comment on something that Fred said about gaining citizenship thru service in the military. During WW II this was how my gfather from Hungary gained his US citizenship. Currently the US military does recruit soldiers without US citizenship. These are called “green card soldiers” and there are approx. 44,000 of them in the US military. I can’t remember where I read the article about these soldiers, but I’m very sure it was around Memorial Day and either in the MJM or the Post. I asked my brother who is currently serving his second tour in Iraq if he knew of any soldiers who were not US citizens and he said “tons of them”. Most of these soldiers were brought to the US as minors by their parents. They grew up here in the US, went to school in the US, and speak english. When recruited by the military, these men and women are given green cards if they have a foreign birth certificate. There has been a push to expedite these soldiers’ citizenship process, but if they should die in battle, they receive citizenship upon their deaths.

  248. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:13 pm:
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    Cost information (for Italian):http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
    Happy reading!

  249. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:18 pm:
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    Italian: some more cost information: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersffec
    Happy reading!

  250. The Patriot said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:30 pm:
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    One more cost item: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1523.cfm

  251. Lafayette said on 24 Jul 2007 at 5:51 pm:
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    You are right call on ALL VIOLATIONS, I said earlier, and looks like you don’t discriminate either. BREAKING THE LAW IS …
    I wish others would just understand this is not about race. It’s legal vs. illegal.
    Our community has changed so much, and I must say not for the better by the looks of my neighborhood, and most established neighborhoods in the area(PWC, AND THE TWO CITIES).
    The “red carpet” rolled out for the illegal aliens must be rolled up, and then burned.
    The illegal invasion is a dustructive cancer, that no doctor or treatment can cure. The time has come that our government must take action based on the will of the legal citizens(who obey the laws of our land).
    Can anyone put a price tag on the loss of quality of life around here?….I sure as heck can’t, and can’t imagine many if any others could.

  252. Had to Say said on 24 Jul 2007 at 6:11 pm:
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    “However, I wonder if the threat of terrorism is enough to get the government to really crack down on illegal immigration.”

    Tell me you are not that naive? The government has had six years to do something about the border and illegal’s coming into our country if they wanted to. Do people not believe that terrorists are crossing the border? WOW, this kind of thinking is really scary!

  253. Nono said on 24 Jul 2007 at 6:21 pm:
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    If the Govement could not take out the folks from Luisina when Katrina hit and those people wanted to get out.
    Do you think that the government can take out 12 million?
    In the mean time many more new naturalize citizens are applying with the
    n-400 form. 800,000 in less than a year. The wait is 10 months.

  254. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 6:50 pm:
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    manassascityresident, LOL I’m not Onan the Barbarian. Onan’s a much better writer than me. His fantasy about sipping iced tea in his seersucker suit with no lemons is brilliant writing. Nice job. His ideas itrigue me and I’d like to subscribe to his news letter. I like where you say “The illegal invasion is a dustructive cancer”. Wow. Do you burn crosses on black people’s front lawns too?

    Go on, keep dehumanizing these people. See where it gets you. And what do you care if there’s six cars parked on the street. In my neighborhood there’s cars all over becaus every family thinks mom and dad and junior and sis each need their own SUV plus a camper and a boat, and their garage already is filled with exercise equipment so all that stuff is on the street. Don’t hear me crying about it. You only care because they’re hispanic. Racist.

  255. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 6:57 pm:
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    Now, Now, Howie - let’s not get your underwear all twisted in a knot.

    Breathe slowing, and place the race card back into your pocket.

    Now, breathe slowing again, and try to think of something different to say, that doesn’t include the word race, racist, or bigot.

    Now, I understand that this may be difficult for you - but let’s stick to the subject of illegal aliens and how they are changing the quality of life in our area and throughout our great nation.
    Not hispanic illegal aliens, but ALL illegal aliens. That includes radical muslims, who would rather see all of us dead….it includes ALL illegals.

    Don’t fret, I will completely understand if I don’t hear back from you.

  256. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 6:57 pm:
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    Rest assured that when I complained to my HOA about people parking diagonally across two spaces, neither they nor I cared about who was doing it or why.

    The tow truck drivers don’t care either. They just take the car and collect their $100.

    And then the people whose car was towed predictably complained to the HOA, “But you never towed cars before”. And the HOA’s response was, “Be glad you got away with it for as long as you did, because it’s being enforced now”.

    I wonder, though, should the HOA have had a parking amnesty? Like if you’ve parked like a jerk for, say, the last 5 years, you don’t have to worry about getting your car towed and can continue to park like a jerk?

  257. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:07 pm:
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    I would like to see a city/county policy go into effect that requires all cars be off the street by 11:00 pm, and that includes the families with 5 SUV’s and their kid’s SUVs. But then they would probably start parking on the lawn.

    At the time, my HOA was worthless - we’ve since gotten a new property management co., so I’m hoping they are better. I called the police (non-emergency) and got more response from them then I did from my HOA.

  258. Italian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:11 pm:
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    Anyone from Herndon? THey have been doing a lot to penalized people through tickets. Is it working?

  259. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:19 pm:
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    OK, I’ll avoid those three words.Try this: Given your irrational, hysterical reaction to seeing different languages and flags, and given the fact that you refer to them “hating the US”, “a cancer”, comparing them to a flock of mindless identical birds, it’s pretty clear that you have a low tolerance for those different from you. You are trying to dehumanize and demonize them. Your problems are vague. They leave the door open. They park cars on the street. They use food stamps. So? So do white people. And black people.

    You only have a problem with them because they are Mexicans. You rationalize this by making up phony reasons.

    Normal people don’t feel threatened by bilingual cereal boxes. Normal people don’t complain because their bank asks them if they’d like to hear options in Spanish. Why would a bank want to serve more customers? That fact that you hold these views indicate that there is some abnormal functionality in your brain.

    If I said, “It really bugs me when dumb broads like manassascityresident sit there running their fat ignorant mouths instead of getting their butts in the kitchen and making me a sandwich. I can’t believe chicks actually think they should have opinions” would it be any less ignorant and insulting than what you said?

  260. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:24 pm:
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    There should be laws about parking your cars on the public streets! Government should regulate how many people live in a private residence! Voice mail shouldn’t be in Spanish! Cornflakes should be English only! Only American flags should fly!

    When did Republicans become such pussies? You guys used to be all about getting rid of regulations. Now, you haven’t found a way of dictating personal behavior or telling people what they can’t do that you don’t like. What’s with all the HOA worship here? That’s what I want, a bunch of busybodies with no lives running around telling me how tall my grass should be and what color I can paint the house…not!

  261. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:26 pm:
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    “I would like to see a city/county policy go into effect that requires all cars be off the street by 11:00 pm”

    Other jurisdictions have those types of parking restrictions. In at least one case I recall, the rationale is that this allows the city to sweep the streets.

    In other cities, overnight parking requires a permit from the city. As I recall you get the permit for a set amount of time. Mainly it would be used if you had someone visiting for a short period of time who would be parking on the street.

  262. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:29 pm:
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    I beg to differ - MANY people are unhappy that there is even an option to push 1 for English. There should be no option. Many people are unhappy about a lot of things that have been going on in this country for far too many years. You act like I’m the only person in the entire nation that has ever been enraged that my kid’s school has to be “DUMBED DOWN” to accomodate those who don’t speak the English language.

    Now is the time, Howie, that we “agree to disagree” because we will NEVER agree on this one.
    Nice chatting with you !

  263. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:30 pm:
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    Anonymous -
    I think it’s something that should be pursued……

  264. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:32 pm:
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    Such a gentleman you are, Howie - nice language.

  265. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:34 pm:
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    “What’s with all the HOA worship here? That’s what I want, a bunch of busybodies with no lives running around telling me how tall my grass should be and what color I can paint the house…not!”

    I don’t see a problem with it. When you buy the house, you know up front that there is an HOA. Don’t like it? Don’t buy it. Move somewhere else. You have that choice, and so long as you do, your complaints about HOAs are invalid. Now when the government starts forcing people to buy houses with HOAs, that will be a different story. Is that taking place? No. People are exercising the power of the free market when they decide to buy or not buy a house because of the HOA or lack thereof.

    I look at the crap that goes on across 28 in Manassas Park and I’m glad there’s an HOA to prevent that sort of stuff here.

    By the way, my HOA sent out a nice little diagram showing how one is supposed to park, and as usual, it was ignored. So the complainers have only themselves to blame. They gave plenty of notice as to what was going to happen and people still complained anyway when they found out that the car they’d parked across two spots is gone.

    My dealings with HOAs have shown me that the vast majority are quite reasonable.

  266. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:37 pm:
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    I totally agree with your assessments but I would like to see these neighborhoods without illegal immigrants to see who is next.
    A school district from Virginia was one of those selected for Brown vs Board of Education. It is really hard fopr me to beleive that this people sudenly changed and they are but racist anymore. Let’s not call them racist because when you do it, they don’t respond to your questions.
    There were sonme places in Virgina that they closed the schools rather than integrate. You will tell me that the generated that supported all those situations have suddenly chnaged their ways of thinking.
    I doubt it.
    Whenever something is mentioned about blacks, people don’t respond in this blog. You have to be politically correct with americans but you can call the illegal aliens “Cancer”
    I dare you to try the same language with blacks and then say I am not racists. “Nappy headed hos” was nothing compared to what some of you say about illegal immigrants. I know you are frustrated but it is weird how you try to deal with this issue without being realistic.
    Send them all back and then we will see how you deal with a system that is broken. Don’t go far away just try DC

  267. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:38 pm:
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    “I think it’s something that should be pursued……”

    I do too. It’s on my to-do list to research parking regulations for other jurisdictions across the country. From what I have seen, most suburbs in northern states (Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, to name a couple that I’ve looked at) do have parking restrictions like these, but I am not aware of any jurisdiction in Virginia that does.

  268. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:39 pm:
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    I think the law shoud be enforced. It would be great to hear from people who live in Herndon to see if that is changing the environment. The only thing that I hate is that suddenly you have a police state. Almost half of the copmplaints about overcrowding in Herndon (june 07) were false. This is just based on reports, i don’t know what people see out there.

  269. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:43 pm:
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    “you know up front that there is an HOA. Don’t like it? Don’t buy it.”

    This has to be one of the dumbest arguments, especially around here. When we bought our house three years ago, there was a pretty confined area of affordability, and they all had HOAs. Sometimes HOAs are unavoidable. Ooops, guess I should just go back in time and take a different educational path that didn’t lead to me needing to get a job in NoVA.

  270. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:44 pm:
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    There is a big, big difference between the blacks whose ancestors were brought here against their will and the illegal aliens who sneak across the border and demand their “civil rights”.

    They spend more time demanding things from the US government than they ever do from the government where they came from. I suspect that things would be better all around if they spent that time cleaning up the places they came from instead of finding greener pastures to strip like locusts.

  271. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:47 pm:
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    I don’t think that pushing for English only will solve the problems. It has never worked. It took a couple of generations to have English only at home. I don ‘t speak any English at home because I want my daughter to be bilingual.
    It hasn’t affected her performance at school at all. She is in fourth grade and she just finish reading Animal Farm.
    If you really want to read something about assimilation try Portes. He is an Cuban American who has conducted several studies about this issue.
    We should not rely on ficticious studies ny the CIS. That is not real science

  272. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:48 pm:
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    anonymous ,
    As long as you don’t demand anything or being brought by force you have the right to treat them like sh….t

  273. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:51 pm:
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    How do you send them back?
    The Eisenhower falacy that Patriot promotes in every blog?
    Eisenhower was able to round half a million of illegal aliens and not 4 millions as reported.
    Attrition by enforcement? I don’t think they are leaving Herndon.
    It costs according to ICE numbers $10000 to deport an illegal alien. It doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be done but we need to be realistic about it.

  274. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:54 pm:
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    Why are the illegal aliens around this area?
    It is not only constructions. I see them in the day care centers watching your kids. Taking care of your elderly too. again, it doesn’t mean that they did not commit a crime but what do you do when they are gone?
    It just the way we build this twisted and not realistic economy.

  275. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 7:56 pm:
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    “This has to be one of the dumbest arguments, especially around here. When we bought our house three years ago, there was a pretty confined area of affordability, and they all had HOAs.”

    Where did you look? Large parts of Dale City have no HOA. Ditto for the old part of Manassas Park. Didn’t want to move there? Could you tell me why?

    “Ooops, guess I should just go back in time and take a different educational path that didn’t lead to me needing to get a job in NoVA.”

    It really doesn’t make sense to me that someone would take an educational path that would restrict their job opportunities to one metropolitan area. Was it the money?

  276. Maureen Wood said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:01 pm:
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    Good luck with the parking retrictions, if you can find a way to do it, all of us will be behind you 100%.

    The Dillon Rule that the State uses to regulate what localities can and can’t do, has effectively tied the hands of the communities that are suffering from an influx of illegal aliens. Remember when you are researching other county’s in the U.S. you also need to see if they are bound by the Dillon Rule.

    Maybe it’s time to pressure our State Delegates and Senator’s to rescind the Dillon Rule.

  277. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:01 pm:
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    well it is not that you took a specific path on purpose but now you get to live with illiterate people who have skills that buy them a house in your neighborhood.
    I mean I took a different path that allows me to have a decent place to live without dealing with illegal immigrants.
    Pretty much I can choose where i want to live based on my eatrly decisions in life

  278. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:03 pm:
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    TH -

    Who do you think took care of the children in our community and the elderly before this mess (the invasion)? And still do?

    Are you insinuating that we would “fall apart” without the illegal population? I certainly hope not.

    I wash my car, clean my house, my husband cuts the lawn.
    I hate to be the one to inform you, but we have been living here just fine without the “extra” help.

    You sound like our ecomony would fall apart without “them”….

    Not so, TH, not so.

  279. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:06 pm:
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    I can do my job from wherever there’s a broadband internet connection and a place to plug my laptop in. I could move out of MP but I really don’t want to, I’d like to try to do what I can to make it a better place to live. I’ve seen too many people just cut and run out of this place when they could have stayed and made a difference. One of them even got elected to city council and moved a couple months later.

  280. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:09 pm:
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    No I don’t think that the economy will fall apart but you will have to choose how to spend your money. Some people in previous postings said that they were willing to pay $12 for lettuce. That is dumb! they way the globalized economy works is that those things will be outsourced. There are already some experiments of americans going to Mexico to grow food there. I commend you for doing all these things for you and your family but you won’;t deny me that in general amaricans don’t treat their elderly with respect. They would rather pay someone a couple of bucks a month (illegal alien) than taking care of your own. It is what it is or am I wrong?

  281. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:10 pm:
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    Don’t worry–the economy is already starting to fall apart. The dollar is losing value like crazy, and the foreclosures are ramping up. I expect that as the economy slows and we end up in a recession perhaps the discussion about illegal aliens will shift–who needs an amnesty when you’ve got a slowing economy?

    At most the presence of these illegal aliens prolonged the inevitable–we are going to have a recession.

  282. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:11 pm:
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    “Some people in previous postings said that they were willing to pay $12 for lettuce. That is dumb!”

    Hell, I’d grow it in my backyard and sell it for $11.50 a head.

    Well, assuming that $11.50 at that future date is still worth what $11.50 is now. Wouldn’t bother if $11.50 at that future date is worth what 70 cents is today.

  283. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:12 pm:
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    There are places that I love but I will never live there. It is good that you keep fighting. Sometimes you tend to think that one person cannot do a lot but Greg with this blog proves the opposite. Right or wrong we wouldn’t be here without this forum

  284. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:15 pm:
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    I would get myself a rooster too!! I see that it is a big issue now too. Don’t get me wrong, I know it is not tough but you have to come up with enforcing every single thing that affects the piece of your community. Sending all illegal aliens back won’t fix the situation.

  285. manassascityresident said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:26 pm:
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    Yes, our economy is already starting to fall apart - which is exactly why we don’t need to be spending a trillion here, and a billion there, to support individuals who don’t belong here.

    TH - I must agree with you that some people don’t respect the elderly as much as they should and it’s a shame. But we’re not all bad children to our parents. There are many citizens in this country who need jobs too, and who would fill those positions. I would encourage my teenager (when he’s of age) to work at a Burger King or McDonalds or any restaurant in this area. We shouldn’t all be lumped into the category of “too good to do that kind of work”…..

  286. AWCheney said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:27 pm:
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    Foreclosures being way up was predictable, given the artificial real estate market explosion fueled by the many forms of “creative financing” snapped up by people who either believed it when someone told them you can get something for nothing or they figured they could just cut and run when the bill came due. Well, the bills are coming due, which is why you are seeing all those foreclosures and abandoned homes.

  287. Had to Say said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:28 pm:
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    “I would get myself a rooster too!!”

    And why do any of us have to put up with that? Once again they are breaking the law!!!!!!

  288. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:32 pm:
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    anonymous, We bought in 2004 when homes were on the market for hours, not days or week. I had four constraints: under $400k (that actually bought something decent in 2004), certain quality/size, detached single-family dwelling, and no more than a 30 minute commute. The commute constrains the outer radius of the area you can look at, and price constrains the inner radius. Spent a couple weeks, hours per day, being show homes by the real estate agent. Of the few that we liked that met the constraints we attempted to put under contract. After a few tries we finally closed a deal on one. All the acceptable homes were in HOAs.

    You want a decent home around here, chances are it’s in a HOA. (At least it was then).

  289. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:38 pm:
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    “You want a decent home around here, chances are it’s in a HOA.”

    Think about that for a minute.

  290. Howie Feltersnatch said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:52 pm:
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    anonymous, correlation does not imply causality. There are plenty of places in the country with good homes not in HOAs.

  291. dolphin_Moon said on 24 Jul 2007 at 8:58 pm:
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    If all the rednecks have left Manassas, then I must be having bad flashbacks from drinking too much Manassas water. I think it is safe to assume that we still have our fair share here.

    TH, Brown vs Education arose out of a school in Topeka, Kansas. You are right though, that some schools in some localities did close in the late 50’s/early 60’s because of integration issues. The city where I was raised was one of those localities.

    The schools were closed because state funding had been cut off as a result of the Virginia’s Massive Resistance Laws. Classes were held in people’s basements and in churches for a year and then the schools reopened because of a state supreme court decision.

    I find it interesting that this topic would come up now, in this thread. If the point is that Virginia has a long history of racial bigotry, then I must defend my state somewhat. Virginia was certainly not alone in the resistance and I believe the matter was settled much more peaceably than in other areas of the south. If your point is that Virginians broke the law, I suppose the question would be, whose laws? State laws? Federal laws? I guess they broke laws, I am just not certain whose.

    Most of the people who were part of massive resistance are dead and gone.
    I am not sure dredging all that up relates at all to the topic at hand. I have lived outside of this state about 5 years of my life. I am glad those five years were during this terrible time. By the time I moved back to Virginia, it was a done deal.


  292. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:05 pm:
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    Yes, there are plenty of places in this country with good homes not in HOAs.

    So why do you suppose that, in this particular region, all of the “good homes” are in communities with HOAs?

    Maybe there’s something about this area that requires a community have an HOA to be a good place to live?

    I couldn’t tell you what, if anything, it is. All I know is that I look at that stuff across 28 in MP and I’m glad my community has an HOA. The two things that are most obvious which take place there:

    Cars parked in yards — prohibited by most HOAs

    Remodeling of houses into large monstrosities totally out of character with the neighborhood and with little to no concern for aesthetics: Again, prohibited by most HOAs.

    On the other hand, the presence of an HOA is no guarantee of anything, either, as a drive through Irongate or Georgetown South will show. Sometimes I wonder if these communities still have an active HOA, or if it fell to the wayside due to lack of involvement.

  293. AWCheney said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:07 pm:
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    There was not a lot of resistance in Prince William County, as I recall. The high school designated for black students was temporarily closed and later reopened as a middle school (Jennie Dean). All students were required to go to their designated school according to school district. VOILA, desegregation overnight with hardly a ripple and, more importantly, absolutely no need for busing.

  294. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:10 pm:
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    Dolphin_ Moon.
    The case of Brown v. Board of Education as heard before the Supreme Court combined five cases: Brown itself, Briggs v. Elliott (filed in South Carolina), Davis v. County School Board of Prince Edward County (filed in Virginia), Gebhart v. Belton (filed in Delaware), and Bolling v. Sharpe (filed in Washington D.C.).

    History is the first class that I took when I came to this country.

  295. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:14 pm:
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    It wasn’t just a year. It was about five years. See:
    “The ruling was extremely unpopular in Virginia, and white Virginians attempted to resist integration through every means possible, during a period known as Massive Resistance. Schools remained segregated for several years. By 1959, James Lindsay Almond had become Governor of Virginia, and faced with continuing losses in the courts, he dismantled the system of segregated schools in that state. Nevertheless, the Board of Supervisors for Prince Edward County refused to appropriate any funds for the County School Board at all, effectively closing all public schools rather than integrate them. White students often attended “segregation academies”, which were all-white private schools that were formed. Black students had to go to school elsewhere or forgo their education altogether. Prince Edward County schools remained closed for five years”.

    Wikipedia. Not that reliable but it can be checked out

  296. dolphin_Moon said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:22 pm:
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    AWC, I think just Charlottesville, Warren County, Arlington County and Norfolk were the localities singled out by the federal courts and ordered to integrate. Other areas became involved after that.

    I have used the word ‘think’ a lot because I was pretty young when all this was going on and of course, history rewrites itself about such issues. I moved back to Virginia after all the action had taken place and was far too shallow and interested in kid stuff to learn much about it.

    I don’t think Prince William County was even in their radar. When I moved here in the 60’s, it certainly was not an issue.


  297. dolphin_Moon said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:36 pm:
    Flag comment


    I was speaking of the locality where I grew up, not Prince Edward County. Prince Edward County chose to shut down their own schools rather than integrate.

    Several jurisdictions, including my home town, were shut down by the state of Virginia because of the massive resistance laws. The schools ordered to integrate were not funded by the state. One of the schools was the one I attended before I moved away. When my family returned, it was all over. The schools in this area were only closed for one school year. I don’t much care what Wikipedia says.

    For the record, I am neither defending nor criticizing what happened. It falls in the category of JUST IS. (or JUST WAS in this case)

    By the way, what is your point in discussing this issue? I am trying to make the connection here.


  298. TH said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:52 pm:
    Flag comment

    My point is that accepting differences doesn’t come easy in places with a history such as the one you lived in Virginia. I don’t want to put people into categories. I don’t think that everybody was a racist then but there were some people who reacted to this whole thing in a very radical way. That generation is still alive. Many people grew up in that environment and now it is easy to blame the illegal aliens for a lot of the things that part of this economy. I know that there a lot of things that they do that are just wrong here or San Salvador. What I hate is that people doesn’t thinkl about education, just get rid of them.
    I would be more worried about living next to Lindsay Lohan than some immigrants. When we talk about stars we tend to identify the issue as a dicease and not a crime. For some people illegal aliens will be criminals forever, no chance to pay your debt to society. You did something wrong and you have no rights.
    Sure they are not citizens so they cannot ask for anything but don’t start deshumanizing them. They have been called zapatistas for marching on May 1.
    The lack of respect for the country for waiving a flag. It just a damn flag like the one we use to support my basketball team for March Madness. I guess next March I will use an american flag to show my patriotism.

  299. Lafayette said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    The foreclosures are increasing day by day. Here’s another problem with all of the foreclosures, the occupants are not vacating the property after the Trustee’s sale. There has to be another court proceeding to order these folks to vacate the property. I know of one property the house was sold in front of the courthouse two months ago, and the squatters are still there. I guess the Sheriff’s office will be by soon with papers to post on the front door.
    Before, any of the opposition starts screaming racist or bigot…
    I’m a title examiner for one of, if not the busiest title companies in PWC, and I do know what I’m talking about.

  300. park'd said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:18 pm:
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    Well anyone on this blog who does not live in Manassas or Manassas Park or at the very least PWC can sod off. You speak of things you know nothing about. Anyone sitting in their nice, cushy home in Fairfax with nary a sign of an illegal has no business telling me what their opinion is. Come live in the trenches here in the park with me for a year and then we will see what kind of tune you little birdies sing then. Until then you can zip your trap and take a hike.

  301. dolphin_Moon said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:19 pm:
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    Thank you for clarifying your position. I wasn’t sure where you were going with the reference in earlier posts.

    Actually, most of the people who were decision makers during massive resistance are dead and buried….either that or too old to give a damn now. As for those who came of age during that time, I don’t really know how much it shaped their thinking. I can honestly say, it has very little if anything to do with how I feel about undocumented workers or immigration in general.

    I would be willing to bet money that I am the only contributor to this blog who ever attended a ‘foundation school.’ If I am incorrect, I am sure someone will let me know.

    I don’t get the feeling that the immigration issues being discussed here are southern or Virginia generated. I could be wrong but I don’t feel there is a correlation between what people are saying here and the trials and tribulations of Virginia integrating its schools some 50 years ago.


  302. park'd said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:24 pm:
    Flag comment

    And NO TH, it is not JUST a flag. It represents 231 years of struggle, commitment and respect for the rule of law that many a thousand soldiers have died to protect. The mindset that, “it’s just a flag” is what separates you and the illegals from a true American. Pathetic. God help us all.

  303. anonymous said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:32 pm:
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    “Anyone sitting in their nice, cushy home in Fairfax with nary a sign of an illegal”

    You know as well as I do that they do have illegals in their communities. Who do you suppose does the landscaping for them? Why do you suppose they have that opinion about what kinds of jobs “Americans won’t do”?

    They, of course, don’t see what goes on after that nice complaint low-wage hard worker gets home–that’s for someone else to deal with. Just as long as they got the cheap labor they’re entitled to, what else matters?

  304. Lafayette said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:42 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’m so sick of the questions about who’s going to nails, landscape your lawn, etc…
    The hard working people of PWC, MC & MP are going to continue to their own work. The folks of FX are the ones getting the illegals to do their work for them.
    I bet those who had the guts to come out here to the trenches of the “illegal invasion” would last a month, there’s NO WAY they would last a year before the went back to Fairfax County, or better yet go to Wheaton, MD. They’ve all kinds of illegal activity there.
    You got it right about the flag. The “it’s just a flag” attitude is also feeding to the problem.

  305. Lafayette said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    corr: going to DO YOUR nails? Oh, I forgot my personal favorite..CLEAN YOUR HOUSE?!! I think you all know the kind of nonsense I’m talking about.

  306. dolphin_Moon said on 24 Jul 2007 at 10:53 pm:
    Flag comment


    I believe TH was speaking of foreign flags being waved…..not Old Glory.

    I am beginning to think some of the people on here need a private blog space where they can all preach to the choir, repeat themselves, and never read someone else’s opinion.

    God forbid anyone should read and ponder a different idea.

    That would be Un-American, liberal, Democrat-like and all the other epithets one can think of to villify others.

    Free speech, a foundation of our democracy, is not welcome and those who disagree with the main content of this blog are told to go away.


  307. Lafayette said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    I hate seeing the the Mexican flag flown in my neighborhood!!!
    This is the United States of America after all. I bet the Mexican flag wouldn’t bother you, if it were flying a several houses where you live?

  308. Publius said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:14 pm:
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    Greg, I just finished watching the final game of the American cup. You would not believe who has been sponsoring the month long soccer tournament mostly watched by illegals living in the U.S. The Marines? Yes Greg our USMC, also Comcast, Bud Light, Ford, Visa, Lowe’s, Home Depot, McDonald’s, Wendy’s and All State. Those “Bad” American corporations catering to Illegals? They have betrayed our constituents Greg. We ought to stop investing in them. Let’s save them Greg! Welcome to the 21st Century! Ever heard of the Global Economy or Globalization? I’m sure you have heard it of at GW. The U.S. is leading it! Isn’t capitalism GRAND Greg?

  309. Mary said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:19 pm:
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    Totally blown away here by the “tolerance” and “humanity” displayed by our moral superiors from WaPo.

  310. Bryanna said on 24 Jul 2007 at 11:38 pm:
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    Please read the book Infiltration by Paul Sperry.

    There is a religious war happening in America, and we American Citizen’s need to get our heads out of the sand FAST and begin working together. A house divided will fall and this is part of the Muslim Plan, to weaken this country in preparation for their take over.

    We’ve been invaded by a Muslim Mafia that has no respect for the laws of this country. They are here working their Islamic 20 Year Plan to dominate America by the year 2020. Faisal Gill is Allah’s golden child. In the eyes of his people he is the son of Allah, to us he represents evil.

    Ask Michelle Malkin, author of the Faisal Gill Affair, she’ll agree. There are U.S. Senators who would agree. Gill is an enabler of terror. He is supported by Prince William County Republican Committee who will do ANYTHING to get Gill elected. It’s the temptation of money, power and winning elections.

    The Muslim’s are united and pool their votes to win an election for any candidate that will support their Plan, they guaranteed delivery of enough votes to win any R or D an election. For you Dem’s who think this is a joke, they claim to have won the state of FL for GW and thus they won him his presidency. Perhaps Al Gore did have his presidency stolen from him?

    Muslim extremist and supporters are buying our politicians, pooling their votes as a bargaining chip to win elections and buy off politicians, all the way to the White House. Now Muslims are directly attempting to integrate into the political fiber of American politics.

    You should fear that your children will live in a world without religious freedom. Faisal Gill’s friends think Jew’s are monkeys, pigs and animals. Now who are the bigots and racists?

  311. dolphin_Moon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 12:03 am:
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    It was…I can’t recall if it was the Mexican flag or the El Salvador flag. I believe it was during the World Cup last year. I think that is reasonable. It irritated the living hell out of my husband until I reminded him of his UMD flags draped all over his truck. I am certainly in no position to berate someone for rooting for their team.

    The issue to which I responded, however, was about not honoring the American flag.

    I find a several people here thinking they know how I feel about things. I have fairly eclectic political beliefs…so don’t go betting the ranch.


    …It is not best that we should all think alike; it is a difference of opinion that makes horse races. …Mark Twain

  312. Lafayette said on 25 Jul 2007 at 12:13 am:
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    Fair enough.
    Don’t worry I’m just a Westgate white girl, I don’t have a ranch to bet. However, there’s been a couple of chicken ranches right here in my neck of the woods.

  313. PWC Native said on 25 Jul 2007 at 12:17 am:
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    ?(upside down isn’t on my English computer) Qien es la racista?

  314. dolphin_Moon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 12:29 am:
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    We are fairly close to being neighbors. Sudley here.

    If you have the chickens, then I probably have an axe….do you smell dinner cooking?

    Chickens are farm animals and have no place in suburbia.

    I wish one would fly in my yard. That would take care of the problem. I am sure that ‘the Great Possom Killer’ would not mind switching over to chickens. ho ho ho….or perhaps I should say, arf arf arf.


  315. Lafayette said on 25 Jul 2007 at 12:37 am:
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    I hate to tell you, I heard a rooster in Sudley this morning. My daughter and friend thought they were coming from some townhouses. Really, the chickens are here in West Gate and Sudley. Please, call Zoning intake at 703-792-4029, if you see or hear them. I was very concerned about the number of roosters on Chase Ct., I really have to wonder were they for cock fighting. We really can’t tolerate these foul birds in our community.

  316. Legal2 said on 25 Jul 2007 at 6:24 am:
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    Mary, even in the 1940’s, the WaPo was known as the “Pravda on the Potomac.”

  317. kt said on 25 Jul 2007 at 6:48 am:
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    No More - Immediately after 9/11, Faisal Gill hosted a Manassas outreach gathering (with another 2 muslims) to relieve our fear about islam. Did anyone else attend? I actually came away from that meeting with more questions and the distinct feeling that we could not trust anything the muslims would say. I’m inclined to agree with Mr. Sperry; you can’t take them at their word. There is an agenda.
    In the same way, the pro-illegal advocacy groups want to take advantage of our system to install sympathetic politicians to overthrow the government. Start with a look into the marxist/socialist mayor of Los Angeles, CA. Don’t think the local groups here aren’t trying to undermine the local policies of enforcing law by replacing leadership in the name of “representation”.

  318. Lafayette said on 25 Jul 2007 at 6:51 am:
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    Corr: Zoning phone # 703-792-7018.

  319. park'd said on 25 Jul 2007 at 7:05 am:
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    Dolphin: I reread the original flag post and my comment stands. Since TH says that he/she doesn’t know why everybody is getting so worked up over a Mexican flag, that says to me that he/she also feels that way about the US flag. A bunch of illegals waving their own flag INSTEAD of Old Glory while demanding more rights and services from Joe Taxpayer apparently means nothing. This to me translates that he/she could care less about what the US flag means to a real American. Nice try on being TH’s spokesperson for what you ‘think’ he/she meant, but my comment stands. TH may not have directly said that Old Glory is JUST a flag, but his/her inflection definitely insinuated it.

  320. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 7:54 am:
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    God help us all. I just see more & more everyday, how we are drawing closer to a one world rule, id chips ( mark of the beast , my belief, wow, what am I stirring up now)

    Onan the Barbarian said on 24 Jul 2007 at 1:36 pm:

    redawn, the world isn’t black or white. I know this comes as a great shock to you, but that’s just the way it is. (Understanding this concept is crucial to so many debates.)

    Onan, My world is NOT black and white, it’s right and wrong. Nobody is perfect, after all we were born of a sinful nature and that is why Jesus paid the price on the cross. That doesn’t mean we will never sin again.

  321. dolphin_Moon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 8:09 am:
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    I certainly will call if I see or hear one. If it comes in the backyard though, it is a goner. The possom killer will kill it for sure. I have seen him leap up and catch birds. Hopefully I have better luck than I have had getting mosquito control down here.

    You might be correct about the cockfighting. There was one of those up in the yard at Sudley Manor House about a year and a half ago, so they are in the neighborhood. I didn’t see it but Teresa, the manager, did see it and finally figured out what it was. Very exotic looking chicken.


  322. dolphin_Moon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 8:51 am:
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    I am re-reading TH’s words. You sure read a lot in to what people say or don’t say. I suppose that is poetic license of sorts. Good grief, don’t people say enough explicitly to piss you off without reading something in to what someone says?

    You know, I don’t particularly like seeing the protests and other flags waving, but I do understand what is happening and why it is happening. I just don’t happen to agree with it. I also don’t assume everyone out there doing it is an illegal. I think that is a dangerous leap to make. I also think it is presumptuous to assert that you know how TH or anyone else feels about the American flag.

    What continues to bother me reading some of these posts is the reality check. There is no way massive deportations are going to take place. It isn’t possible nor feasible. Simple mathematics tell me this.

    So what are our biggest concerns? Can we prioritize those concerns? Better border security would be at the top of my list. Obviously getting rid of those commiting crimes would be up towards the top, and I don’t mean the crime of being here. I mean crimes that are not race specific. We obviously need to tweak zoning laws and zoning enforcement. This is something that can be done.

    After those things have been taken care of, then I can worry about who is getting a free lunch and I sure don’t limit that concern to latinos.

    In my perfect world, I would be laying about me with a 2 x 4 if you didn’t take advantage of getting an education. Didn’t do your homework? Wack!! Deadbeat mom or dad not paying child support? Wack. Smoking dope rather than feeding the kids you shouldn’t have had in the first place because they are all going to end up in special classes because of chromosome damage? Double wack!!!

    My fantasy laundry list of people to dislike and reform probably just isn’t the same as yours.


  323. OpenStormDoor said on 25 Jul 2007 at 9:20 am:
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    Flag Flying

    My paternal grandfather is a German immigrant. Came through Ellis Island as a young boy of 10 years, around 1926 if I remember correctly. My paternal grandmother is of Norwegian descent, though born here in the USA. They’re both still alive and living healthy, active lifes.

    My grandfather flies the flags of Germany and Norway, each on their own pole, to honor their home countries, and families that struggled through the hardships of trying times. Between these two flagpoles is an even taller flagpole. On this flagpole, he proudly flies the flag of the United States of America.

    I wouldn’t mind so much seeing flags of other countries, if they also paid homage to the USA. My grandfather hasn’t forgotten where he’s from, but he’s proud of where he is!

  324. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 9:40 am:
    Flag comment

    I am here to tell you what I think about flags. Flags should be respected and treated as what they represent. In other countries you will get to jail for burning your flag, here it is accepted as free speech.
    Do you think that Stallone showed respect for the flag by using it to cover his butt (Apollo did before Rocky though).
    My point was that having flags around doesn’t mean that you don’t respect this country. A previous post shows that some people have their country’s flag and the US flag side-by-side.
    I hope you understand now my point. Now I have to go out with my Brazilian jersey(I am not Brazilian and by the way I am a guy so you don’t have to use she/he)

  325. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:37 am:
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    I think it speaks volumes….who is racist? I aslo like how you get comments of “why are my comments not posting” - stategic bull.

    PROUD MEXICAN LIVING IN AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL!! said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:15 am:
    why were my comments removed?? truth hurts ??bloody english go back to england and praise that old fart lady who is your queen,damn slaves….!!
    prepare for the retakevolution…what goes around comes around what mexico once was will be again!! dumbasses… go check the mail to see if youall got your dissability check for headaches,lazy whiggers…work just like we like to work not cry about illegals!!!

    PROUD MEXICAN LIVING IN AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL!! said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:21 am:
    oh, dumbasses by the way the leader of this stupid blog is french-canadian
    just like all you whiggers go back to europe …. manassas park is run by whiggers with tax money from mexicans who build bigger houses compared to trailer trash sheds whiggers had!!! face it we will prevail, sooner or later we will run this country!!! lol lol lol …

  326. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:50 am:
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    PROUD MEXICAN LIVING IN AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL!! said on 22 Jul 2007 at 9:27 pm:

    AWCheney said on 23 Jul 2007 at 12:41 am:
    This guy is scary…and precisely one of the reasons that the illegal alien issue is reaching a crescendo.

    PMLIATB, you don’t seem to understand that the illegal alien issue

  327. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:52 am:
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    Please see the rest of AWCheney’s comments, I did not mean to cut it off

  328. BL said on 25 Jul 2007 at 11:22 am:
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    Insecure Borders: Let’s Give Blame Where Blame Is Due

    By Peter Gadiel

    For five years, members of 9/11 Families for a Secure America have lobbied in Washington and in many state capitols for immigration law enforcement and secure borders. The opponents of our goals are many throughout Congress and elsewhere, but during this period the most powerful of them has been that individual with the sole authority to require the federal government to enforce these laws and who, by his refusal to do so, has made that government a co-conspirator in undermining the security of this Nation. That person is of course, George Bush.

    As chief of the Executive Branch he has under the Constitution not only the sole power but the duty to enforce the laws of our country, a duty he refuses to honor. He thumbs his nose at the obligations imposed on him by the Constitution, which, in the name of the God he claims to worship, he has sworn to uphold. Since the people of the United States have no recourse through the court system to make him enforce the law, he alone has the power to decide that illegal aliens will be permitted to prey on Americans, and he has made that decision.

    The harm that George Bush has done to this country is seen by many but felt most severely by those who have been the victims of crimes committed by illegal alien criminals, many of whom, after all, are in the United States due to Bush’s refusal to enforce federal laws already on the books.

    The president’s efforts to undermine the collective security of the Nation and the individual security of citizens have caused many to ask: “Why does Bush allow illegal aliens, every one a law breaker, to enter the United States freely? Why does he refuse to enforce existing law and to allow terrorists, violent felons and drug smugglers full access to their intended American victims? Why does he continuously ignore the Constitution and the oath he swore to uphold it? Why doesn’t he care about Americans suffering as a result of depressed wages and working conditions, or about the Americans who have been the victims of crimes committed by illegal aliens?”

    I have been meeting such victims and families for almost six years. As time passes I’ve grown more disturbed by what the Bush malfeasance indicates about his character. In part this is so because I meet ever more victims and see the list of victims grow longer. But there is another list that is also growing and this too affects my view of the man: the number of elected officials I have spoken with who, because of their positions in the government, have had one-on-one conversations with the president and who insist he is fully aware of the crimes inflicted by his illegal alien friends. There was a time when I gave Mr. Bush the benefit of the doubt; I believed he was insulated from the facts…that he didn’t know what was happening in the states. But now I grasp the truth: He does know. He doesn’t care: What kind of man must this be?

    But as to George Bush (and many other elected officials and bureaucrats) I have come to realize my original appraisal was wrong. His actions since 9/11 have, for me, established that he lacks concern for the lives of individual Americans. Three thousand people died on 9/11, but since that day far more than three thousand have been killed, individually or in small groups, by illegal aliens. And still he refuses to enforce the laws that would end the killing. Thousands of Americans have been killed in intentional murders, or as ‘by-products’ of robberies, rapes, beatings or auto accidents caused by drunken illegals driving automobiles. Thousands more lives have not been ended but have nevertheless been shattered by acts of violence short of murder, such as child molestation. (The Bush Administration makes a proper accounting of these crimes impossible by virtue of its refusal to require local police to inquire into the illegal status of those arrested.)

    That George Bush’s refusal to enforce the laws of this Nation has been the direct cause of these Americans’ death and suffering is simply beyond dispute. He and the Tony Snows and Michael Chertoffs he hires can protest all they want about the “impossibility” of securing our borders. He and they can pretend to be merely incompetent for only so long before Americans wake up and realize they’re not just incompetent, they are misrepresenting the truth.

    To the many who wonder why Bush is doing what he’s doing, I offer some advice. For a long time I wondered too. Finally, I realized the futility of spending another moment on this imponderable. The reason why doesn’t matter. The fact that it is so is all that matters. But for those who need to have an answer as to the ‘why’ of the Bush actions I suggest you look at the motives of others who have betrayed our country: ideology, revenge, greed.

    One or more of these pretexts must be what Bush employs in his own mind to justify his tolerance of violence and death. In that sense he is undoubtedly conventional, typical of his breed. But in one respect Mr. Bush has carved out a place that is unique among corrupt politicians. In his obsession to pass his amnesty, a major tool in the permanent elimination of our borders, he offered what amounted to a bribe, in public, to members of the US Senate, telling them that if they would vote for his amnesty bill he would provide 4.5 billion dollars to build the border fence that a 2005 federal law he signed required to be built. In those two years Mr. Bush has managed to get only a few miles of that fence built, but suddenly he saw that enforcement of this federal law could be used as a payoff to be offered to Senators to vote for his amnesty. Presto, he promises to come up with four and a half billion to build it.

    Of course Mr. Bush is far from the first politician to engage in illegal or immoral behavior. But it is customary for politicians to try and keep their corruption a secret. For example, Boss Tweed of New York; Sen. Tom Dodd (father of the current Sen. Dodd) of Connecticut, Ted Kennedy. These bribe takers, philanderers, drunk drivers and lady killers at least tried to keep their crimes hidden from the public. As reprehensible as they were or are, they at least comprehended that their actions deviated from the norm and felt sufficient concern for public opinion that they didn’t want their crimes exposed. Mr. Bush appears to be unique in this regard, for either he lacks awareness that his behavior is wrong, or his contempt for the people of the United States is so absolute that he is doesn’t care that we see him offering bribes.

    Naturally, when corrupt politicians are discussed Bill and Hillary Clinton cannot be ignored: Whitewater; cattle futures; Travelgate; Vince Foster; pardons for Susan McDougal, Puerto Rican terrorists, and Marc Rich; questioning the meaning of the word “is.” We also cannot forget that for eight years prior to September 11, while Moslem terrorists escalated their attacks against the United States these co-Presidents successfully schemed to avoid dealing with terrorism by sweeping it under the rug for their successor. These are the two who paved the way for September 11 by their refusal to respond with sufficient force to the numerous terrorist acts that occurred during their presidency: the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center, the embassy bombings, the Mogadishu atrocities, the bombing of the USS Cole, etc. By their inaction they encouraged and permitted the growth of the power of binLadin. Ultimately, the greatest responsibility for September 11 lies not with Bush but with the Clintons.

    Yet it is George Bush who has been in office for six years after the murders of 3000 on 9/11. It is he who has been president since then as crimes by illegals have killed thousands more. It is possible to excuse the inaction of the Clintons as opportunistic passing of the buck to their successor in the White House. But George Bush cannot claim that excuse. The resulting damage was obvious for all to see. He cannot claim ignorance. He cannot avoid his guilt. Yet, he marches on, completely dismissing the blood that is spilled and the pain that results from his refusal to act.

    It is useless to speculate about “why” he permits these crimes. So to those who continue to wonder, my advice is: don’t waste another moment of thought on the matter. Use your energy to contact your members of Congress, your governor, state legislators. Then contact them again, and then again. Educate your friends and enlist them in the cause of immigration reform.

    Elected officials do respond to pressure from constituents. You have power, but only if you use it by communicating repeatedly with them. The richly funded campaigns of LaRaza, Chamber of Commerce, Ford Foundation, bankers, lawyers, et al., to open our borders succeed precisely because they make themselves heard while others remain silent. Your silence in the face of their campaigns is as powerful an ally of the open borders lobby as the open borders lobbyists themselves. So, make yourselves heard. You have a voice. Use it.

  329. anon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 11:22 am:
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    “manassas park is run by whiggers with tax money from mexicans who build bigger houses compared to trailer trash sheds whiggers had!!!”

    So tell me how much money they’ll collect when those mini-motels go on the auction block because they’re foreclosed

  330. dolphin_Moon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 12:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    I just made a concerted effort to read through Proud Mexican’s rage. It was not an easy task because he is very angry and resorted to name calling and threats. Name calling and threats weaken any argument.

    If you can push aside his insults, he makes several very good points and I wish he had made those same points in civilized dialogue. More people would listen.

    One point he makes also bothers me a great deal when reading the postings here. People use the term Mexican when they mean Latino. People use the term illegal when they mean Latino. If you don’t want to be perceived as racist, don’t make racist statements. Calling all Latinos ‘Mexicans’ is just inflammatory and at best, racially insensitive. People have national pride. Nothing wrong with that.

    I was visiting out west several years ago and my host introduced me to his friends and said I was from West Virginia. Talk about bristling! My best friend is from West Virginia, but I still bristled. I am a Virginian!

    I am not ready for the National Guard to be called out in Prince William County to quell the violence. Let’s all tone it down a notch and try to establish productive, bi-partisan, dialogue. All of life is a compromise of sorts.


    …The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug…Mark Twain

  331. 4kidzanadog said on 25 Jul 2007 at 12:48 pm:
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    There has been a lot of name calling in this blog. This is not a liberal vs conservative, black vs white, red neck vs non red neck, HOA vs non- HOA problem. It is LEGAL vs Illegal issue. HSM is not affiiated with any one group it welcomes all that are concerned about the impact illegals are having on our community.

  332. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 2:05 pm:
    Flag comment

    PROUD MEXICAN LIVING IN AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL is just an ignorant guy. He doesn’t even represent the most liberal supporter of legal immigration. Do you think that Mexico will take back land? That is idiotic! It was theirs, it is true and we took it (it wasn’t given away as the history books claim) but so many things have changed that it is not going to happen.
    You will start to see more hispanic politicians at the national level in about 20 years. Thewre no Hispanic Al Sharptons or Jesse Jacksons but soon they will be out there. I am not saying that those two guys are something great. I mean that there will be voices out there (positive or negative) resenting the Hispanic thoughts. La Raza or Mexican Without Borders is just a beginning.
    I don’t think that it is bad. The more engaged is a community in a political process the more assimilated they are. Their kids will be as involved as you are in bringing good things for their communities.
    It takes time guys! The nonsensical comments of these people like Proud Mexican should be taken as when you see the post of White Supremacists in this blog.

    [Ed note: please let me know if you see nutballs like that commenting here. I don’t always have the time to police these threads, and can use your help in knocking those down as soon as I can.]

  333. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 2:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    I don’t think is legal vs illegal. It is American culture vs Foreign values. In places where you see a lot of illegal europeans this is a non issue. They speak the language and come from developed nations. They don’t have a rooster at home or invite 10 relatives to live with them.

  334. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 2:13 pm:
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    Good point Dolph. I hate political correctness but using illegal aliens and Mexicans as the same thing you are getting pretty close to making a racist comment. I don’t think that people who do that are racist but they are ignorant. There are some people out there who call a latino friend Carlos, just because that was the only latino name that came to his mind. Another one was asking a group of asian guys what kind of chinese are you?
    Proud Mexican is ignorant and he doesn’t contribute to the dialogue by presenting his radical ideas. There is free speech though

  335. AWCheney said on 25 Jul 2007 at 3:05 pm:
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    No TH…IT IS LEGAL VS. ILLEGAL. There is no issue at all with legal immigrants…the issue is with ILLEGAL aliens, regardless from whence they have come. Those who make this anything else are the ones who are racist, or at least trying to make this a racial issue rather than what it is, and the very ones trying to stir up the pot and bring it to a boil rather than allow reasonable dialogue.

  336. 4kidzanadog said on 25 Jul 2007 at 3:06 pm:
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    TH it is legal vs illegal. It doesn’t matter what country the person came from, how many people live in the house or if they speak English. That being said, it would be wrong and ignorant to interchange Mexican with illegal alien. There are plenty of legal Mexicans living here in the US and illegal aliens come from all over the world.

    Anyhow, this was not the intent of my comment. I was mearly trying to point out that the issue at hand is not a white conservative issue it is every legal citizens issue. People contributing to the site should be careful not to exclude or put off individuals who may, in fact, share their same views. By insinuating that all liberals support illegals is as wrong as saying all Mexicans are illegal.

  337. anon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 4:29 pm:
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    Actually, yes, it does matter how many people live in the house. There are limits based on building codes.

  338. The Patriot said on 25 Jul 2007 at 4:30 pm:
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    “You Don’t Speak for Me” is a group of LEGAL hispanics against illegal immigration. They are on our side. Would those individuals be “racist”? I think not. It has nothing to do with race. Any person (of any race) is welcome to come here legally to join our American melting pot culture.

  339. 4kidzanadog said on 25 Jul 2007 at 5:50 pm:
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    anon, I guess I wasn’t clear in my comment. Of course, over crowded homes are unsafe and unfair to surrounding neighbors (I have an over crowded home behind me and three down the street). My property value and quality of life are at an all time low due to this situation. I was reposnding to TH who commented that it is more of a culture issue (chickens, 10 people in a house). I don’t care where you come from if you are illegal you should not be in this country. The living habits of certian alien groups only compound the problem.

  340. park'd said on 25 Jul 2007 at 7:04 pm:
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    Well according to our real estate tax assessments our home values SURE aren’t dropping. I better see at least a 15% drop in value on my assessment in January because at this point I couldn’t sell my house in this dumpy town for 15% under its assessed value. No way, no how I will pay these tax rates come January and I will start a petition for everyone here that lives in the Park and my neighbors to refute the assessment. I refuse to keep paying the highest real estate taxes in the state of Virginia to keep these illegals in tacos, formula and diapers. ‘Aint happening any more *cough* Manassas Park Council members that read these blogs *cough*. Since you ‘aint scratching my back, then I’m gonna make it as hard as I can possibly make it for us to scratch yours.

  341. dolphin_Moon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 7:22 pm:
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    Say what you want about legal vs illegal but I still say you do not know who is legal and who is illegal. For an argument that is only over the abstraction of legal vs illegal, I have sure heard a bunch of bitching going on about flags of other nations, chicken in the yard, 10 families to a house, unlicensed drivers, 15 cars per house, cars on the lawn, zoning violations of every type, and people living off the dole.

    I think it is about more than legal vs illegal. I think we have a right to expect those who move into our neighborhoods to abide by community standards and our laws, regardless of ethnicity.

    Those who have to tolerate violations of community standards have every right to moan and groan about it. But those violations really don’t necessarily have to do with legal or illegal.

    I am fortunate. My hispanic neighbors put me to shame. Their homes and yards look like a million dollars.


    Laws are sand, customs are rock. Laws can be evaded and punishment escaped but an openly transgressed custom brings sure punishment….Mark Twain

  342. park'd said on 25 Jul 2007 at 9:24 pm:
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    And some of you people wonder why we want to crack down on these dregs…

    I know not ALL of them are bad, but they bring in a terrible element with them that would never have been here had we enforced our existing laws and protected our borders. George Bush is the biggest failure of a leader that this country has ever had and imo ever will have. It will take us decades to get over this man’s incompetence on every possible level, assuming we are even able to recover.

  343. truthseeker said on 25 Jul 2007 at 9:27 pm:
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    For your blog and your activism!

    Traitors have taken over our government and are dismantling our Republic while many Americans have been lulled asleep.

    Finally the great sleeping giant is awakewning.

    The invasion has been aided and abetted by all three branches of government. Time to clean house.

  344. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 9:37 pm:
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    Yes, you are correct about the real estate taxes / assesments not reflecting the current and daily changes of our neighborhoods. The real estate tax assesments come out on an annual basis ( broken up into 2 payments per year, due in July and December). I know because, I am a real estate title examiner and I have to call on this information as part of the process of a title report.
    I will also say that you will not know on January 1, 2008. I have to do titles everyday and at the time period of a new year, I still have to hear ” we have not yet calculated the tax assesments”, even up thru march~ Never thought about this process and the question of, why?( will look into)

    I am glad to see that you took time to look in to the website ” You don’t speak for me”… thank you…you see where I am coming from.
    I understand and RESPECT the time you take to read between the lines of comments and you are correct in saying that we don’t know if they are legal and illegal based on chickens, overcrowding homes of 10 familes to a house, etc….BUT THESE ARE ISSUES, which, I hear you agreeing with.

    Everyone has valid points that have commented.

    I have even thrown in my religous beliefs as comments, PART OF THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND RELIGON AND BLESSED TO BE IN AMERICA.

    I could go on & on, as so many, what do we do? I look @ this as trying to educate my children, how can we solve this? Everyone has stories and opinions, but, I ask where did we loose the truth or what America ( that would be north) was based on?

  345. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 9:55 pm:
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    What is about cultural differences that makes feel people uncomfortable? The issues are that the people who come here do not respect your way of living and you don’t like that. That is not racist! I know many people from different countries who are here legally and still they have not adpated to comply with unique standards that each culture demands.
    Why is it that every time that a clash of cultures is addressed people fear that you are calling them racists. I don’t think it is about selling the old country values. It is about respect of those new values. That you can get it with education and not with a green card.

  346. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:01 pm:
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    I am familiar with the group you don’t speak for me. The difference between that group and other hispanic groups is that these people respect your values. They are not racists for believing on that and you are not racist for defending Manassas but you have to identify if what bothers you is the lack of respect for american values or the fact that this people committed a crime when they crossed the border.

  347. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:07 pm:
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    I have to correct you. The MS-13 was not brought from San Salvador, it started in LA. This guys don’t even speak Spanish. It is organized crime as bad as any other gang in this country. Just because Al Capone was a ganster, it didn’t mean that all Italians in Cicero were criminals.
    I am not defendingb the MS-13, but it is like saying that because you oppose to illegal immigration you are a white supremacist

  348. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:10 pm:
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    What if I tell you that I am a naturalized US Citizen who likes to have roosters, park on the lawn, Cumbia music all night long? I am pretty sure that you would feel the same. Don’t associate ignorance with crime. Some of them committed a crime and are not assimilating, sure but it is not correlated.

  349. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:10 pm:
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    One more thing, The comment made by:

    PROUD MEXICAN LIVING IN AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL!! said on 24 Jul 2007 at 9:21 am:
    oh, dumbasses by the way the leader of this stupid blog is french-canadian
    just like all you whiggers go back to europe …. manassas park is run by whiggers with tax money from mexicans who build bigger houses compared to trailer trash sheds whiggers had!!! face it we will prevail, sooner or later we will run this country!!! lol lol lol …

    I am a life long resident and have family and friends that live in and around Manassas Park. Manassas Park was established in 1957 and it was meant to be a first community and as starter homes, not meant for more than one family in it’s design.
    I also purchased the home that I grew up in (not in MP) and it has a big yard, small house. This was considered “the country” back then. It was the “drive “, people wanted to escape to on the weekends, such as Front Royal, Luray, etc ( as they are building too) Sudley Rd ( rt. 234 was a 2 lane highway and rt. 28 a single highway) People have lived here generation after gerneration and have EXCEPTED THE CHANGES, but there is something happening ( ALL ARCOSS AMCERICA).
    The houses our parents / grandparents bought, were surfice to raise a SINGLE FAMILY. We used to even WAVE TO OUR NIEGHBORS OR PEOPLE IN PASSING, PITCH IN @ A TIME OF NEED, NO MATTER WHO YOU WHERE, IT WAS CALLED RESPECT! (by the way, for the record, I still do)

    Things have changed and they have that fancy word “X” something, I am not going to try to pretend I can spell it, without looking it up. (I just heard of it for the first time, recently..hmmm would that make me a redneck, if? :))
    My point is, these were NOT SHEDS that we were building, look at the last 15yrs, EVERYTHING HAS GOTTEN BIGGER, FROM THE HOUSES TO THE VEHICLES people drive.
    It’s CRAZY, maybe that’s why other’s view that we are spoiled and ask who is going to do THE “JOBS” THAT AMERICAN’S DONT WANT TO DO.

    I don’t agree with that arguement, but I DO believe that MANY PEOPLE ARE LIVING BEYOND THEIR MEANS and are sending out this message. Thanks, but I do clip my own nails.

  350. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:18 pm:
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    How do you know that the individual who lives in an overcrowded house is here illegally?
    I guess it is because they show behavioral patterns that you clearly identify as foreign.
    What would you feel if all the people in your neighborhood comply with the law, speak english, have the american flag, etc but all of them are here illegally?
    It is not only illegal vs legal. Again It is not racism either. I lived in Costa Rica for almost a year and you have a constant problem between the Costa Ricans and the Nicaraguans. Bothe are brown people or very close. The Nicaraguans were not assimilating and Costa Ricans didn’t like that. Costa Rica protected them when they needed it during that Sandinista regime and they expected some respect.
    There is no way to have a machine to detect who is legal or not but lack of respect for our values raises a big red flag.

  351. TH said on 25 Jul 2007 at 10:20 pm:
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    PROUD MEXICAN LIVING IN AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL is just an ignorant and radical guy. He is not willing to listen or to prove his arguments. He just want to amke people angry

  352. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 11:16 pm:
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    Anyone agree that this is ALSO a war on MIDDLE CLASS, the ones that make to much for benefits and the ones that don’t make enough to survive?

  353. redawn said on 25 Jul 2007 at 11:19 pm:
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    *too much for benefits….(I have to ASK, because at one time I qualified for benefits (and really needed them, but decided not too and STILL PREVAILED)

  354. anon said on 25 Jul 2007 at 11:28 pm:
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    I have to add to your comments on MS-13. Although you are correct that the gang comes from California, it was started in 1972 by Salvadoran immigrants. MS-13 have over 100,000 members that are Salvadoran, Honduran and now Hispanic…Fortunately a large portion of the MS-13 gang cell in California have been deported in part due to a MS-13 gang task force that was formed to deal with this violent, criminal hostile gang. And yes these gang members do in fact speak Spanish. They have ties to human trafficking and Al-Qaeda. Nice people…the kicker is my 1st grader got to hear all about the MS-13 gang during her entire school year from one of her classmates who happened to be a proud family member of MS 13 gang members…guess what…the family members are here illegally, the classmate is an anchor baby and my daughter got to listen to most of this crap in Spanish…since the majority (90%) of her classmates speak Spanish not English!

  355. NY harbor arrival '51 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 12:29 am:
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    First: Peter Gadiel has diarrea of the mouth. Second: I’ve never understood this crowing about having ancestors going back to the Mayflower landing in 1620 - must have been one heck of a large boat - and what’s so special anyway? The Vikings were here much earlier; Juan Ponce de Leon landed in 1513 at a lush shore he named Florida; in 1540, Francisco Vazquez de Coronado led 2,000 Spaniards and Mexican Indians across today’s Arizona-Mexico border. Next: From 1819 to 1848 the U.S. and its army increased the nation’s area by roughly a third at Spanish and Mexican expense, including three of tody’s four most populous states: California, Texas and Florida. Hispanics became the first American citizens in the newly acquired Souhwest territory.

    America has always been a fast-changing land, home of overlapping cultures and languages, an homage to our history, not betrayal of it, to welcome the latecoming rivals, just as the Indians did the tardy and uninvited Pilgrims who arrived in Plymouth not so long ago.

  356. dolphin_Moon said on 26 Jul 2007 at 1:18 am:
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    I had shut down and I kept thinking about Anon’s comments about his daughter. I had to log back on. Anon, don’t allow that to happen. Don’t put up with that crap. Complain to the teacher first, as a courtesy. She/he probably doesn’t hear it or understand it. When it continues, and it will, take it to the principal of your child’s school. Go in armed with the right resources. Go through the Code of Behavior with a highlighter. Gang activities and gang promotion are forbidden in Prince William County Schools. Insist that the child promoting this crap be disciplined. Point out the violation in writing. You can get the Code of Behavior online if you don’t have a copy.

    If that doesn’t take care of the problem, call the area superintendent of your child’s school. Use the words bullying and point out the violation in the Code of Behavior. (page number and paragraph) Insist of anonymity for your child during this entire process.

    You might be told there is no gang activity at your child’s school. Don’t believe it for one minute. Notice the kids getting off the bus. You will notice the predominance of one color of garments. (it varies from neighborhood to neighborhood) This is a dead giveaway. Usually it is a tee shirt.

    Prince William County has pretty decent gang resource specialists. Ask the principal to have a parent night and invite one of these specialists in. The ones I have heard pretty much tell it like it is. They will tell you that there is no such thing as a gang wannabe….a wannabe is a gang member.

    I am not saying these kids are MS-13, but gang activity is gang activity. Insist that this behavior be dealt with at your child’s school. I assume your child goes to Prince William County Schools. If I am incorrect, do the same thing in either of the city schools. Substitute the word area superintendent for principal’s boss. The local police departments all have gang specialists.

    If Prince William County, if all of these measures do not bring about desired change, call Rae Darlington who is the Deputy Super. She is a big promoter of anti-bullying. Make sure you have gone up through the chain of command. It will get bounced right back down the old ladder if you haven’t. Document names and dates when you spoke going up the ladder.

    In fairness, the behavior is not the fault of the school. Nevertheless, if the behavior is not dealt with, it will be their fault.

    I hope this helps. What you described is totally unacceptable.


    …Mark Twain has nothing to say…..

  357. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:02 am:
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    How do you know that the individual who lives in an overcrowded house is here illegally?”

    TH, you want to tell me where I said that and why you are putting words in my mouth, so to speak? However, since you drag me into that particular debate, I ask YOU, how do you know they aren’t?? If you are unable to debate or dialogue with someone on the merit of their own words, then make something up, right?

  358. Anonymous said on 26 Jul 2007 at 7:26 am:
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    What would Ron do


  359. Legal2 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 7:56 am:
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    I don’t think Ron “envisioned” having to deal with the invasion of uninvited millions, bankrupt hospitals, and 9/11 terrorists crossing our borders as “the last best hope for mankind.”

  360. TH said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:09 am:
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    You said that it is an issue of illegal vs legal and that if you do this issue something else that person is racist.
    So why question was how do you identify them? I am not putiing words in your mouth. Tell me how do you do it? When do you decide that I am here illegally? When you hear that person speaking Spanish? When you see the color of the skin? When you check their papers?
    My point was that just by looking at people’s behavio you caanot detrmine if that person is here legally or not. Then How do you know that your neighbors are here illegally? Because of the rooster?
    That is what I am adding to the discussion.

  361. TH said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:13 am:
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    9/11 terrorist came here with a student visa. Why do you have to tie that attack with illegal immigration? Should I assume that after the Oklahoma bombing all whites are racist and potential terrorrists?

  362. Legal2 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:01 am:
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    TH - so the invasion and bankrupt hospitals are ok then?

  363. TH said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:48 am:
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    Do you have information about your local hospital?
    A breakdown by insurance or no insurance? I see old people, brown people, black people, everything there.
    Yesterday i was helping a mother in a local hospital in DC. She didn’t speak any English, she was brown, but you know what she had insurance.
    So how do you tell that your hospital was bankrupted by what illegal immigrant do.

  364. TH said on 26 Jul 2007 at 1:04 pm:
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    Pribn Williams tried in January to come up with a study about the effects of ilegal immigration and the results were not conclusive.

  365. TH said on 26 Jul 2007 at 1:04 pm:
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    I meant Prince William County …. sorry.

  366. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 6:18 pm:
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    Excuse me TH, but you are still dragging me into aspects of this debate which I have not, heretofore, entered. I happen to believe that people should be required to prove their citizenship when registering to vote and their legal status or citizenship when applying for public assistance (taxpayer funded) of ANY kind. I happen to believe that ANY individual who violates the law should be asked for proof of their legal status and, if it is unavailable, should be detained until it can be confirmed, even if they are a citizen arrogant enough to believe that they, too, are above the law. These are the aspects of the debate which I have addressed and I’m getting a little sick of you continually intimating that I have said things which I have not!

    And BTW, when you are supposedly quoting me (”AWCheney,
    You said that it is an issue of illegal vs legal and that if you do this issue something else that person is racist.”), I suggest you do it accurately. My grammar may not always be perfect, but it’s a heck of a lot better than your version of it.

  367. 4kidzanadog said on 26 Jul 2007 at 6:22 pm:
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    TH, where did you get the idea that I was associating ignorance with crime. If you are illegal you broke the law. I never mentioned roosters or loud music in any of my comments. If you want to drag those issues into the conversation so be it. My answer to you is: Any legal resident or illegal alien owning livestock in a residential neighborhood or regularly plays loud music after a certain hour should be reported to the police department.

    As for the PW study - any study or attempted study is a joke. How could any study on aliens be conclusive? We have no idea who is legal and who is not. If you can’t come up with a head count how can you come up with a cost or an effect? At best, you can come up with an “assumption” but you can’t take an “assumption” to court. This is why the PWC will never be able to bill the Fed’s for the cost of illegals. Unless we require documention for all services including education and factor in that some of this documentation is falsified.

  368. Anonymous said on 26 Jul 2007 at 6:50 pm:
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    How about a study of how much money “good americans” have made off illegals. They may not pay taxes but when you get paid dirt what is the difference.

  369. anon said on 26 Jul 2007 at 7:57 pm:
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    I appreciate the advice…however I live in the City, not that that should make a difference, but the Principal was made aware. I know that this child’s behavior was addressed but I do not know the outcome. My daughter spoke Spanish all year long…she had no idea what she was saying but she certainly had the rolling r’s down to a science. That is what she heard all year long sitting in her classroom and knew no better….as a matter of fact…for lunch she ate hamburgeisas not hamburgers…she is confused as hell! I haven’t heard her spanish speaking all summer….can’t wait till school starts!

  370. TH said on 26 Jul 2007 at 8:30 pm:
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    Once I learn to write properly your issues with illegal immigrants will be solved. I like that. I will take some lessons AWCheney and then all your problems will dissapear.
    THe solution you are proposing is not realistic because there is n o way to verify that the documentation presented by illegal aliens is real or fake. Do you see them voting? When they ask for assistance they ask help for their american kids.
    People insist that your system is Bankrupt but one of your local hospitals just started the construction of a new facility to assist more people coming to your county. I guess they are loosing money.

  371. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 8:39 pm:
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    “THe solution you are proposing is not realistic because there is n o way to verify that the documentation presented by illegal aliens is real or fake.”

    Actually there is TH, which confirms your ignorance of the actual facts of the issue. It has been cited by several commenters here and is available to public authorities…if they choose to use it.

  372. Anonymous said on 26 Jul 2007 at 9:42 pm:
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    I don’t know anything about city schools. I can only address how to navigate the county complaint chain of command. I did leave out one thing, there is a hotline/tip number listed in the code of behavior. Those calls get lots of action, even if they are not legitimate. Perhaps the information will help others.

    That gang talk is unacceptable though and it should be addressed by school admin. I guess you are just going to have to insistand be a real pain in the butt over it. The squeaking wheel does get oiled in most school systems.

    I probably wouldn’t be upset if my kid learned Spanish. I wish mine were a lot better than it is. I think being bilingual makes life a lot easier and for the next generation, I expect it will almost be a requirement in many jobs. That is not to say that I support instruction in Spanish or any other foreign language, unless it is a foreign language course. I also think that every person living in the United States should learn English. It is the language of economic empowerment.


  373. redawn said on 27 Jul 2007 at 9:18 am:
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    NY harbor arrival ‘51 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 12:29 am

    “I’ve never understood this crowing about having ancestors going back to the Mayflower landing in 1620 - must have been one heck of a large boat - and what’s so special anyway?”

    I will say you are correct, that so many people claim to have heritage of The Mayflower and it is not the case. However, I do have proof and the reason it is special to me, is that it is my family history and I am fortunate that we have been able to trace it. There are alot out there that cannot even link their past. That’s all.

  374. mark said on 28 Jul 2007 at 7:15 pm:
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    Great website/blog. Yea! for Greg L. telling the UNFASHIONABLE truth. I’m an independent voter and I hate “spin”. It’s refreshing to read this site and the comments on it. THANKS

  375. Bryanna said on 30 Jul 2007 at 9:52 pm:
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    Everyone keeps talking about countries like Mexico, El Salvador. You’re all clueless. You better start worrying about the Islamic Terrorist who come here on Visa’s and never leave. You think over crowding in neighhoods and open screen doors is a problem, let me tell ya, you aint seen nothin yet.

    The Muslims are planning a Holy War. It’s time for a revolution because our federal government has hired and trained people like Faisal Gill as JAG Officers, and they intent to use our own tactics against us on our own soil. They mascarade as our neighbors, they stay under the radar, operate businesses, and use the money we give them for cab fare, in restaurants, convenience stores, gasoline to fund terrorism.

    9-11 was like playing with bb guns, they’ve got the oozy loaded this time.
    We must advocate profiling, its a matter of life or death. You choose.

  376. manassascityresident said on 30 Jul 2007 at 11:53 pm:
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    NoMorePC -
    I agree 1,000 percent!
    Profiling is the only way this country will survive.
    Actually, I had mentioned in a previous post that we need to stop immigration completely, until we get this mess cleaned up! Give it 5 to 10 years, and maybe, just maybe, if you do it legally, we’ll let you in.
    PC has brought this country to its knees. Time to stand up AMERICA!

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