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Help Save Manassas To Draw Protesters

By Greg L | 26 July 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Manassas City | 96 Comments

I’ve gotten word that the illegal aliens apologists are planning to protest tonight’s Help Save Manassas meeting.  This should be interesting.

On one side will be local citizens who are concerned about what the large number of illegal aliens who have chosen Prince William County, Manassas Park and Manassas are doing to the community and are pursuing legislative action to, as much as possible, reduce the number of illegal aliens in the area.  On the other side is a collection of bleeding heart liberals and the illegal aliens they support who are determined to encourage as many illegal aliens as possible to reside in the area, and think that protesting and making lots of noise is the way to accomplish this goal.

Although there are certainly better things to do on a Thursday evening,  Manassas City residents might well benefit from showing up in force to discourage this sort of outrageous behavior in the future.  If Mexicanos Sin Fronteras (Mexicans Without Borders) think that they can show up in force and by doing so scare residents into accommodating their demands, there’s going to be a lot more of this in the future.  Once they were successful, at a time when there wasn’t a single organization representing the local citizens to counter them, which has emboldened them.  Now the landscape has entirely changed, and the sooner this can be demonstrated to Mexicans Sin Fronteras, the sooner they’ll stop thinking they can push around the City of Manassas.



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96 Comments

  1. redawn said on 26 Jul 2007 at 9:44 am:
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    It will be nice, nice baby, if ICE shows up:)

  2. park'd said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:00 am:
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    Yeah right….hold your breath.

  3. Big Dog said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:03 am:
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    My guess is that many of the illegals
    themselves might be experienced in “changing the
    landscape” — mowing, trimming, planting, mulching,etc.

  4. YankeePhilip said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:11 am:
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    KEEP UP THE FIGHT ! ! !
    TAG- U R IT
    http://yankeephilip.blogspot.com/2007/07/tag-your-it.html

  5. Scott said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:16 am:
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    I haven’t been to one before, but I will make sure I am there tonight.

  6. Barbara Cummings said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:33 am:
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    I am really disappointed that Chris and I can’t make it tonight. We are rehearsing for a musical that we’re in and it’s in Reston (at St. John Neumann). We had to miss the last meeting for the same reason. We stopped by when we got back to Manassas to see if anyone was still there (it was probably around 9:40) but y’all were long gone.

    Here’s an interesting thing that happened connected with Help Save and the show we’re in . . . At rehearsal last night I was wearing one of my few remaining Help Save Manassas stickers (as I like to do sometimes - it’s a great conversation starter and GREG I NEED MORE STICKERS!), well I didn’t expect anyone to comment on it because we were up in Reston, etc., I was wearing the sticker leftover from the opening of the new Harris Teeter store (I keep the stickers in my purse and when the situation arises I can put one on- On this occasion, there were hundreds of my neighbors listening to Marty Nohe speak about how the new store came to be), anyway, at rehearsal last night I didn’t expect anyone to comment on it, but as it turned out, one of the actors approached me and Chris and told us that his son is the Mayor of Herndon (who was elected because of his stand against illegal aliens). Another actor is from Gaithersburg and she commented on it, saying that they have a big problem in Gaithersburg too.

    *sigh* wish we could be there tonight. Get yourselves some stickers if you can and wear them proud! We’ll probably stop by on our way home but it will likely be 11 pm.

  7. Barbara Cummings said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:36 am:
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    By the way . . . that is quite a posed photo with the big cheese standing in the middle with the raised fist! Powerful … captions anyone?

  8. Anonymous said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:48 am:
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    Barbara, thats John Stienbach (spelling?). One of Jeanette Rishells greatest supporters. He lives in Yorkshire and is a substitute teacher in our public school system (god help us).

    I wonder if he is upset that Rishell now wants to “get tough on illegal immigration”

    Jackson Millers legislative aide, Grant Garcia (who happens to be a Mexican American) told me a story about this guy coming into Millers office in Richmond. Miller was in session so this guy starts screaming at the top of his lungs at Grant about how Miller is a racist and will be going down in defeat in November.

    This guy is about as communist revolutionary as it gets.

  9. park'd said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:58 am:
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    My guess is that he lives in a nice, clean neighborhood far from the effects of what is going on in the park and PWC. It’s so easy to be on the side of these people and their self-created plight if you don’t have to live within the squalor.

  10. manassascityresident said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:02 am:
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    All -
    Steinbach is a substitute teacher at Metz Middle school, where my son happens to attend. I have a draft letter to Mrs. Melissa Saunders (principle) telling her that I don’t want him teaching my child. I do not want him spewing his lies to the children there. And I don’t want him condoning illegal behavior and telling them that coming to our country illegally is perfectly ok.
    Wouldn’t it be nice if we could get his big heini fired!? Have no idea if that is possible. You can access his email at the Grace E. Metz Middle School web site, as well as Mrs. Saunder’s.

  11. manassascityresident said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:04 am:
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    correction - “principal”…..

  12. Legal2 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:11 am:
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    Maybe someone can wear a plain jacket to the meeting with N I C E spelled on the back.

  13. Lafayette said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:25 am:
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    There’s John, where Nancy Lyall?? I guess she demonstrating somewhere else that day.

  14. Had to Say said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:38 am:
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    All, I have heard somewhere that John Stienbach might actually be getting a teaching job at Metz. I don’t know if this is true or not.

  15. BornHere said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:52 am:
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    Greg, I’m curious about something. I always see the Barack Obama ad on your site. Is that who you are endorsing for President? Or they are just paying to be featured?

  16. Barbara Cummings said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:58 am:
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    BornHere, It’s an “ad by Google” — click on where it says “ads by google” at the bottom, and it’ll tell you all about it. Furthermore, if you click on the ad itself, BVBL will earn $$$!!

    There are more “ads by google” along the side underneath the polls section! So quick! Go click on all those ads!!

  17. Lafayette said on 26 Jul 2007 at 12:01 pm:
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    Had to Say
    What could this man possible teach children? ESOL, perhaps.
    He sure runs with a bunch of “illegal loving idiots”. I live in the county and we have Nancy Lyall. I sure hope this doesn’t happen.

  18. BornHere said on 26 Jul 2007 at 12:04 pm:
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    Thanks Barbara, silly me. I should have realized it. I seem to hit that ad every time so I was curious.

  19. Legal2 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 12:39 pm:
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    Where are you, Batson; we need some comic relief!

  20. Just saying... said on 26 Jul 2007 at 1:00 pm:
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    You discredit your cause when you boil this down to a conservative versus liberal fight. Some of those opposed to the actions of groups like HSM are conservative entrepreneurs and business leaders who see illegal aliens as a cheap source of labor that gets them around all those pesky rules about minimum wage, safe working conditions, benefits, taxes, social security, etc. When this is framed as a conservative vs. liberal argument, you alienate a group of liberal-leaning folks who may share your passion for controlling immigration and enforcing the law.

  21. cw said on 26 Jul 2007 at 1:17 pm:
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    I will be working tonight and will not be able to come by for the meeting. My wife and I send out our best to the patriots who are keeping watch for the rest of us.

  22. redawn said on 26 Jul 2007 at 1:54 pm:
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    http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173352139854&path=!news

    “People who attended the meetings, which drew a total of about 800 people, were also encouraged to register to vote or apply for citizenship when eligible.”
    How many of the 800 have legal citizenship?

  23. Mando said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:20 pm:
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    It’s probably to our benefit if the pro-illegal crowd has chosen that crackpot to lead their charge. From what I’ve heard about him, he’s like Laurel and Hardy combined with a splash of Howard Dean.

    There’s a quote from him in today’s MJM:

    “This resolution is wrong and it must be rescinded.”

    I’d bet dollars to donuts that he hasn’t even read the resolution.

    This is probably his 15 minutes of fame so he’s going to milk it for all it’s worth. Watch out for confrontation. I’m sure he’d love to take a punch to become a poster boy.

  24. Bob Sentz said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:33 pm:
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    If anyone would like to know what the Mexicans Without Borders is all about follow this link to a website called ‘Socialism and Liberation.’ Here you can read all about there purpose…and it’s somthing I’m interested in seeing here in America! http://socialismandliberation.org/mag/index.php?aid=356&pf=on

  25. Bob Sentz said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:34 pm:
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    CORRECTION:
    …and it’s something I’m NOT, repeat NOT interested in seeing here in America!!!

  26. Bob Sentz said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:37 pm:
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    For those of you that would like to know what the group ‘Mexicans Without Borders’ is all about follow this link: http://socialismandliberation.org/mag/index.php?aid=356&pf=on. This is really disturbing to me!

  27. Anonymous said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:58 pm:
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    Park’d - “My guess is that he lives in a nice, clean neighborhood far from the effects of what is going on in the park and PWC. It’s so easy to be on the side of these people and their self-created plight if you don’t have to live within the squalor.”

    Read the post directly above yours… if you read, you would see that he lives in Yorkshire, an area that has just as many Latinos as Manassas Park. Far from a nice, clean neighborhood…

  28. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 2:58 pm:
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    Interesting that he should pick the night that Greg won’t be around for his protest. Since the meeting is being held in the City Council Chambers and on City property, is that protest even legal? I wonder if Marc Aveni and Andy Harrover are going to be there?

  29. manassascityresident said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:26 pm:
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    I wonder if they even applied for a permit to protest. I will check.

  30. Maureen Wood said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:28 pm:
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    Andy Harrover will be there and if Marc Aveni is able I’m sure he will be too.

  31. Dan Arnold said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:37 pm:
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    Their meeting down the street has been scheduled for weeks…it has nothing to do with Greg being on vacation. The Help Save Manassas Exec committee has been in contact with Manassas PD and we are ready for whatever comes our way.

    While protestors outside are permitted, disruptions of our meeting are not and will not be tolerated. Just come to the meeting as always and we will conduct our business. They may have a small group or it may be large. Either way, the legal citizens of this community will gather and enjoy another productive meeting.

  32. Bob Sentz said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:37 pm:
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    I have 100 American flags to hand out at tonight’s meeting. I’m sick and tired of seeing the mexican flag. Thanks to J.E. Rice!!!

  33. manassascityresident said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:39 pm:
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    Dan -
    Understand. I will tell them to “nevermind” when they return my call. See you at the meeting!

    Bob Sentz - save one for me!

  34. redawn said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:41 pm:
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    Yes, Thanks J.E. Rice!

  35. manassascityresident said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:43 pm:
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    Dan -
    Just an fyi - just got a call back and the PD and Chief said that no request had been made for a permit to protest this evening. I didn’t know that protesters were allowed outside. Learn somthing new every day!

  36. Bob Sentz said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:49 pm:
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    Well, do they or don’t they need a permit? And, if they do need a permit will the Police be there to enforce that or do we need ICE training?

  37. citizenofmanassas said on 26 Jul 2007 at 3:53 pm:
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    It does not matter what illegals or their supporters do or say, the press for the most part will turn a blind eye to it. On the other hand if a single person who is a member of HSM does anything negative or has the appearance of being negative the Press will stereotype it and make it seem like every person in HSM is the same way.

    If y’all have not read the article in the MJM today regarding the illegal supporters, you should. The article goes out of the way to defend and attempts to push the idea illegals do not have a higher crime rate than Native Americans. Of course, when the MJM does not consider breaking immigration laws, working illegally in the Country, identity theft, buying documents on the black market criminal acts, I can see why they think that way.

  38. manassascityresident said on 26 Jul 2007 at 4:01 pm:
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    Exactly. You are right.

  39. redawn said on 26 Jul 2007 at 4:31 pm:
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    Legal2 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:11 am:
    “Maybe someone can wear a plain jacket to the meeting with N I C E spelled on the back.”

    That was funny :)

  40. Maureen Wood said on 26 Jul 2007 at 4:35 pm:
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    The INS/FBI 2006 statistical report on “undcumented immigrants” tells a far different story than the MJM does. Google it and see some of the stats.

  41. park'd said on 26 Jul 2007 at 4:49 pm:
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    Anon 2:58: I stand corrected.

    Yorkshire is still a far cry from the park though because their houses sit on much larger plots, but yes they still are inundated with illegals. Thanks for pointing out what I missed and incorrectly ASSumed :)

  42. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 4:53 pm:
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    As much as Steve and I would like to come tonight, I don’t know that we should. My son brought a friend home from school this past weekend, and the friend brought “plague” with him. I’m just getting over it, and Steve is just getting started…it’s a nasty bug. If we came, it wouldn’t be a good idea for us to come into the meeting…staying outside with the protest as we cough our lungs out, on the other hand…….

  43. Batson D. Belfrey said on 26 Jul 2007 at 5:24 pm:
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    staying outside with the protest as we cough our lungs out, on the other hand…….

    The protesters would find a way to accuse HSM of practicing “Biological Warfare”! When you cough on them, make sure to “remind” them that PWC will deny them access to free medical care.

  44. G Man said on 26 Jul 2007 at 5:37 pm:
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    Yeah, we’ll get blamed for the 188% increase in TB cases in PWC.

  45. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 5:44 pm:
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    LOL

  46. Barbara Cummings said on 26 Jul 2007 at 6:16 pm:
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    By the way, as I said, I can’t get to the meeting tonight, but I DO have two (2) pending memberships that we can add to the total.

    Thanks!

  47. TING said on 26 Jul 2007 at 6:20 pm:
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    OK, If the Federal Courts say local laws won’t work, and the Feds aren’t going to do anything and throw this back onto the locals, then we need to get our local law enforcement up to speed on Fed Immigration and have them deputized, there is a way to do this and the end game would be let the local law enforcement pick them up within the Feds parameters and swamp the Feds with paperwork, repeatedly if necessary on the same people they turn them back into the gen pop. We CAN make the Feds do their job.

    Fairfax considered sending officers for the training but cited budget problems and did not do so.

    So lets grassroots with local law enforcement, find out what they need, raise the money and send them to ICE school and start picking these people up and processing them.

  48. DLC said on 26 Jul 2007 at 7:13 pm:
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    Wanted to share this with everyone.

    Help ***MAY*** be on the way in the form of a nationwide crackdown on employers who hire illegal aliens.

    The expectation is that “the Department of Homeland Security will soon complete a regulation that puts more teeth in the employer sanction law — which can lead to fines of up to $10,000 per employee against companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. The rule as currently designed would basically change the definition of “knowingly” and would put much more of the onus on employers to rectify discrepancies that arise over Social Security numbers, experts say.”

    As of Tuesday, July 24, 2007, massive firings had begun at Pilgrim’s Pride in East Texas, and many believe the firings are in anticipation of this rule.

    “Tip of the iceberg doesn’t even get it,” said Tamar Jacoby, an immigration expert at the Manhattan Institute in Washington, a conservative think tank. “It’s like if a plague were coming and (Pilgrim’s) is the first person coughing. This is going to be really bad.”

    She said millions of workers nationwide could be impacted if the beefed-up federal enforcement is carried out as some anticipate.

    Pat Reilly, a spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Washington, confirmed that the rule, known as ICEB-2006-0004, is awaiting final action. She had no timetable for its final adoption and publication in the Federal Register.

    Article source: http://www.star-telegram.com/state_news/v-print/story/179711.html
    Proposed rule: http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/01jan20061800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/2006/E6-9303.htm

  49. Nono said on 26 Jul 2007 at 9:31 pm:
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    The best way to save manassas is to assist legal immigrants to become US NATURALIZE citizens. Then in the future they can Vote!

  50. NY harbor '51 said on 26 Jul 2007 at 10:35 pm:
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    AWCheney - don’t tell me your son has been consorting with Latinos to come down with “plague”. Be happy it wasn’t anything worse like polio or leprosy or deng fever or malaria or whatever dread decease these wretched people bring in to your healthy community. Hope you and your fellow antis stay well.

  51. Joseph Heinzinger said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:03 pm:
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    CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF FAMILY MEMBER and the mess will go away. What works in southside does not apply here. If they are in southside , they are probally hidden from view on a large tract of land. We dont want to spoil the buiseness of southside and the valley with the chicken farms. They do not have to live with the abuse of the Virginia definition of family as we do in Northen VA.
    What is the legal definition of family or household member?

    According to Section 16.1-228 of the Code of Virginia, “Family or household member” means (i) the person’s spouse, whether or not he or she resides in the same home with the person, (ii) the person’s former spouse, whether or not he or she resides in the same home with the person, (iii) the person’s parents, stepparents, children, stepchildren, brothers, sisters, half-brothers, half-sisters, grandparents and grandchildren, regardless of whether such persons reside in the same home with the person, (iv) the person’s mother-in-law, father-in-law, sons-in-law, daughters-in-law, brothers-in-law and sisters-in-law who reside in the same home with the person, (v) any individual who has a child in common with the person, whether or not the person and that individual have been married or have resided together at any time, or (vi) any individual who cohabits or who, within the previous 12 months, cohabited with the person, and any children of either of them then residing in the same home with the person.

  52. AWCheney said on 26 Jul 2007 at 11:42 pm:
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    As the level of discourse goes down, I must remember to always include a “sarcasm alert.” Subtleties are just too much for some people…they might fracture their brains with the exertion.

  53. Ted said on 27 Jul 2007 at 9:51 am:
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    So how did last night’s meeting go?

  54. TH said on 27 Jul 2007 at 7:55 pm:
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    My latino son met a white student and suddenly he is smarter. I am just kidding…
    I don’t even have a son. How come that only Latinos bring negative things to your country?( Or illegal Latinos. The legal ones are safe. The way to reconigze them is that the legal ones are purple) Give me numbers? Not just stories about TB and Leprosy( it has been debunked already by the SPLC)

  55. AWCheney said on 28 Jul 2007 at 1:13 am:
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    And when, TH, did the SPLC become medical experts rather than a law center? How about YOU providing a link so that we can take a look at their research.

  56. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:59 am:
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    Here’s an article on the dispute over Dobbs and leprosy that provides links, including to the National Hansen’s Disease Program statistics that prove Dobbs wrong.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200705110004

    This one is handy because it has links to many aspects of the controversy, but there is obviously a huge amount of material out there.

    But of course you may favor Dobbs’s approach.

    “When Stahl asked Dobbs about the inconsistency, Dobbs responded: “Well, I can tell you this. If we reported it, it’s a fact.”

    So modest, such a “journalist,” so psychotic.

  57. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 12:56 pm:
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    Media Matters? Please.

  58. Vento said on 28 Jul 2007 at 2:31 pm:
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    Those that attend Catholic Churches/Catholic Charities, or any churches, that support this illegal behavior need to pull their financial support.

  59. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 3:16 pm:
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    Vento,

    I was a regular donator to Catholic Charities but have given it up. Too bad, the cause I supported (literacy and GED classes for the undereducated) was certainly worthy. I will donate the money instead to Tom Tancredo or Numbers USA.

  60. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 6:32 pm:
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    # Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 12:56 pm:

    Media Matters? Please.

    Um, Mary, I stated that at the start that I was offering this URL because of links it had to other sites, specifically the National Hansen’s Disease Program whose job it is to document cases of leprosy. Now are you saying, I mean is it your understanding of the Internet, that if you follow a link from a partisan group, that somehow that link to a national organization, newspaper article, TV transcript, etc. gets magically tarnished by where you started your journey? Is that what you are really saying? How quaint. I should remember that considering how much I follow links from places I don’t agree with.

    I guess you believe in some kind of magical discrediting process that occurs if someone follows a link from a site they don’t agree with. By that logic, for example, if Media Matters linked to this blog, this blog would somehow cease to have viable information because it would have some sort of magical transformation en route.

    Just amazing. If you don’t wish to see how Dobbs was full of hooey on the issue of leprosy, don’t look. But to use the *source* of follow up links a problem, well that is just incredible.

  61. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 8:01 pm:
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    Born Here,

    How is it that you have so many pro-illegal alien “facts”, figures, statistics and talking points at your fingertips? How is it that you have so much time to spend typing your carefully parsed, verbose posts onto this blog’s comments field?

    I smell a professional. I wonder if you would share with us who you are working for?

    LULAC? Raza? The White House? Soros?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  62. Anon said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:14 pm:
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    My guess is that BornHere either employs illegals or otherwise somehow benefits from their presence here. She is no better than than those who import this slave labor into our country. Their sole purpose is not for the benefit of the poor illegal as they would have us believe but for their own personal gain.

  63. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:43 pm:
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    Mary, I answered your above question, worded almost identically on another thread. I trust you can find it. You still haven’t explained your magical mystical interpretation of following links from disagreeable sites and having information tarnished in the process. But it really seems very New Agey….ah……I forgot.

    Anon, first, you are a coward. Second, I don’t employ anyone for anything, I am a working stiff who is employed. And I don’t benefit from illegal aliens any more than you do every single time you buy meat, produce, or many other products, or eat at a restaurant, or note that the wastebasket of your place of employment was emptied the night before. Given that breadth, please can you tell me who on this blog does not benefit from illegal labor because it would be virtually impossible unless you produce all your own food. I don’t have a nanny, a maid, or a yard for yardwork. I do live next to a lot of immigrants in my apartment complex, and I am fairly certain some if not all are illegal, but they are my neighbors, not my employees, and I am sympathetic to them because they are poor, work incredibly hard, and are hated by people like you. You are the rich person here as you have told us.

  64. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:52 pm:
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    Anon,

    Naw, she works for a “pro-immigrant” group, the painful earnestness and abject cluelessness of the Kumbaya-singing-set is quite evident.

    Given that breadth, please can you tell me who on this blog does not benefit from illegal labor because it would be virtually impossible unless you produce all your own food.

    My country means more to me than cheap lettuce. If I had to pay extra for food picked by legals, I would. We eat too much (an dwaste too much) food in this country anyways. Besides, I’m a big advocate of mechanical harvesting — which has been retarded by the pro-open borders advocate. We were progressing quite nicely on the mechanical harvesting front in the late 70s until the sainted Cesar Chavez successfully sued the California ag colleges to stop federal research into mechanization.

    35 years ago most ag work in CA was down by lower income white people. I should know — my family were among them.

  65. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:07 pm:
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    Mary, dream on and while you’re at it, dream some reading skills and logic. The statement I responded to was an allegation that I employ illegal labor or benefit somehow from it. The answer was, yes I do, just like you all do. Unless you are a Unabomber style woodsman knawing at your garden for every single one of your nutritional needs. Hum, maybe you are, then you benefit too. There is nothing either of us can do about that fact at the present moment. And dream on as well if you think it is limited to lettuce, produce, or any other agricultural commodity. Since you are so mystical about internet links, maybe you are a committed vegetarian, but there are also huge numbers of illegal workers in the Midwest’s meatpacking industry as well as other forms of food processing far from any field.

    I TOO, just like your little dreamy mystical self, would prefer not benefit from illegal labor in this way, but short of not eating, I cannot accomplish that. I don’t even have the possibility of a garden. What you want to do about this problem is mass deportation of 20 million people. What I want to do is see the workers legalized with a path toward citizenship or an extensive legal guest worker program and greatly speed and open up the process for all those who are already patiently waiting in line for conventional immigration status. I think both would strengthen our country’s economy and its working class. But you can’t sit there in your lotus position worrying about tarnished Internet links and tell me that I am any different from you in the degree to which I benefit from illegal labor. Hell, you may benefit more since I know nothing about you out there on the West Coast. I live in a small tiny apartment house built in the middle of the last century, likely by legal labor. You may be living in something newer and in that and many other ways benefitting even more than me.

    I’m not born again, but I do know what it famously says in Matthew 7:3

  66. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:12 pm:
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    PS: Actually with your mysticism, it appears you would enjoy singing Kumbaya. Me, I hate that touchy feely stuff. Give me a Wobblie over a flower child, ‘m kay?

  67. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:43 pm:
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    Mary, dream on and while you’re at it, dream some reading skills and logic.

    More insults and rude behavior. You really think a lot of your intellectual skills don’t you? At any rate the pretense of pleading for “tolerance” and “civility” has been completely dropped. As I knew it would be.

    What you want to do about this problem is mass deportation of 20 million people.

    Attrition through enforcement. How many times do we have to repeat it?

    What I want to do is see the workers legalized with a path toward citizenship or an extensive legal guest worker program and greatly speed and open up the process for all those who are already patiently waiting in line for conventional immigration status.

    More legalized voters for la raza means more open borders, official Spanish and more massive unsustainable immigration. No thanks.

    But you can’t sit there in your lotus position worrying about tarnished Internet links and tell me that I am any different from you in the degree to which I benefit from illegal labor.

    I don’t benefit in any way from illegal labor, except from the standpoint of where I am FORCED to benefit from it i.e. food production. And I’d rather pay more, and would even contribute to any farmer or rancher who takes up a collection to buy a mechanical harvester.

    At any rate, the 20K in state income taxes my hubby and I pay to Sacramento every year more than covers any “benefits” the illegal aliens provide to me.

    You may be living in something newer and in that and many other ways benefitting even more than me.

    I live in a 50s ranch house that was probably built by unionized native-born white people. Up until 10 years ago, construction was a well paid job for native-born people in California.

    PS: Actually with your mysticism, it appears you would enjoy singing Kumbaya. Me, I hate that touchy feely stuff. Give me a Wobblie over a flower child, ‘m kay?

    Oh Jeez, a Marxist. O-ka-ayy.

  68. Mr. Hall said on 29 Jul 2007 at 1:58 pm:
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    Umm, can we please bring the discussion back to the issues we have in Manassas? One ****hole at a time, please.

    [Ed note: comment edited.]

  69. citizenofmanassas said on 29 Jul 2007 at 2:18 pm:
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    Here we go again. Bornhere… How often do you depend on legal labor? How often do you relay on Native American labor? What do you think would happen if all of the law abiding Citizens left? Where would that leave you?

    Illegals are bad for the economy and bad for the community. Contrary to their supporters, they are not just here doing work that Native Americans do not want to do.

    Do you support all criminals? Or just illegals?

  70. TH said on 29 Jul 2007 at 8:08 pm:
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    citizenofmanassas,
    Citizens on welfare are just the same thing, right? Why don’t you say anything about it?
    Illegal aliens are bad for the economy because this economy has been built on a system that always put someone down. The fact that you are living next to poor illegal aliens tells me that once they are gone you will be next going to the bottom of the system.
    How come that I don’t have to deal with illegal aliens next to me in my neighborhood? Simple, I have the skills that send me to the top of the system. Is it unfair? You bet. The problem is that we are focusing on th wrong issue for this country

  71. Mary said on 29 Jul 2007 at 8:22 pm:
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    Citizens on welfare are just the same thing, right? Why don’t you say anything about it?

    Citizens on welfare we can’t do much about — but any illegal stealing money from our welfare state is unncessary because it wouldn’t happen if our government enforced its own laws. So no, it’s not the same thing at all. In addition the number of citizens on welfare is somewhat finite but the number of illegals coming here to take advantage of our “free” social services appears to be infinite.

    How come that I don’t have to deal with illegal aliens next to me in my neighborhood? Simple, I have the skills that send me to the top of the system. Is it unfair? You bet.

    Arrogant, much, are we?

  72. TH said on 29 Jul 2007 at 8:39 pm:
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    You cannot do anything because you are politically correct to say anything against blacks. You live in Mexifornia and know that they not your best citizens. That is racist, no that is a fact.
    A lot of them are not law-abiding citizens. I mean you have to see the TV shows of people in jaul and you see a lot of blacks. For them it is OK that you have a finite number and that you are paying money for them. Thne kids of illegal aliens who were bron in this country have the same rights that blacks but i guess the trick to identify criminals is to see their brown skin.
    Arrogant, call it whatever you want. So what? I proved my point right? You can say whatever you want about illegal aliens and you feel bad because I am talking about a reality in this country. There are poor and rich people. Depending on the end you are, you have to deal with different aspects of the problem. I mean the only Maria that Paris Hilton see is the lady keeping thye little Chihuaha happy but you have to share a space with Maria de los angeles that has four kids, doesn’t have insurance, and doesn’t pay taxes. You didn’t answer why? You just call me arrogant but you could have called me rich

  73. Dolph said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:28 pm:
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    How about another solution? Let’s do away with welfare all together except for those who are physically or mentally unable to work. I seriously resent any person who is able to work being on welfare regardless of their ethnicity.

    I am all for job training., workfare etc….whatever it takes to encourage people to take care of themselves. I also support free birth control to those on the dole.

  74. TH said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:45 pm:
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    I will go for that too Dolph

  75. citizenofmanassas said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:54 pm:
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    Th,

    This thread is about illegal aliens, not people on welfare. That is why I did not mention people on welfare. And, if I do live next to a house full of illegals, it is not because I am not successful, it is because two or more families of illegals live in the house, not a single family of illegals.

  76. Dolph said on 29 Jul 2007 at 11:10 pm:
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    COM,

    Serious question here. How do you know the families living next door to you are illegal?

    Dolph

  77. Greg L said on 29 Jul 2007 at 11:52 pm:
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    Although you didn’t pose that question to me, I’ll take it up in generic form.

    Let’s say you have an overcrowded house next to you, with lots of vehicles that are licensed out of state for months on end, where the residents are clearly not American citizens and don’t speak english. Although there may well be instances where these are legal residents, such instances are exceedingly rare in my experience.

    There are legal immigrants in my neighborhood, and their behavior is starkly different. Although there is always a possibility that residents might be mis-identified, the behavior patterns seem to be pretty consistent to many of us who are faced with this on a consistent basis.

  78. Dolph said on 30 Jul 2007 at 12:27 am:
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    Thank you, Greg. If I understand you correctly, you don’t KNOW per se but you are surmising from the indicators you described?

    You and I are neighbors but not real close neighbors. I simply cannot tell but I also have not had any serious problems in my end of the ‘hood, at least not problems I am aware of. In fact, we have been very fortunate. The newer families have more than conformed to community standards. Like you, I assume these folks are not flying under the radar. I did a neighborhood drive by this morning, after taking my daughter to the airport. It was early and most people were still asleep, so I do know exactly what you are talking about with the cars.

    I am also no stranger to the hispanic community….occupationally speaking. I cannot tell there either, unless I am told. I can surmise….from things said but I dont know. It has been several years since I have been outright told.

    The one bit of knowledge I have acquired (keeping my ear to the ground) is that often families are blended. One spouse is documented, one is not. Usually it is the male who is documented. Naturally the kids are blended, depending on age.

  79. Legal2 said on 30 Jul 2007 at 8:06 am:
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    Blended, schmended. ALL illegals must return to the homelands, even if that means taking their legal child/spouse/parent with them. They can keep crying foul, that their families will be split up, but that is entirely up to them. It is their own personal responsibility. If they made stupid decisions resulting in those consequences, too bad.

  80. Dolph said on 30 Jul 2007 at 9:19 am:
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    Legal2,

    You have to ask yourself the question, was it a stupid decision on their part? The United States has all but sent out engraved invitations to come here, regardless of route. Once you get here, you can send your kids to school, get them free breakfast and lunch, provide them with free tutoring, tap into medical care, for free. If you aren’t making it, you can get public assistance. You can pool your resources with others from your culture to make ends meet…the list goes on.

    I blame the government for issuing the invitation and the accommodations rather than the people who come here. Now, if those said people have an attitude, then naturally, I blame them. That is another issue.

    I may not like the end result of the decision but I sure see why the decision was made. Looking at the big picture, it makes me ask, who was stupid? Our system or them?

  81. citizenofmanassas said on 30 Jul 2007 at 10:42 am:
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    Dolph,

    I said IF I “DO” have illegals living next to me….. The word IF makes a big difference in a sentence.

  82. Dolph said on 30 Jul 2007 at 1:36 pm:
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    COM,

    ?????? I am not saying you do or you don’t. I asked how you tell if they are legal or not. It was a serious question, not a criticism of you. The question has been answered already anyway…..you can’t know for sure but you have good indicators. I thought perhaps someone knew a sure fired way and would share it with me.

  83. TH said on 30 Jul 2007 at 1:47 pm:
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    COM,
    “This thread is about illegal aliens, not people on welfare. That is why I did not mention people on welfare”
    But people on welfare affect your pocket too and you don’t seem to care or you are just politically correct.

  84. TH said on 30 Jul 2007 at 1:48 pm:
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    COM,
    How do I know that you are a successful individual and not just the “loser” in this economy?
    I live in the Maryland suburbs and I don’t see overcrowding because it is not allowed (not only that illegal aliens cannot afford to come here).

  85. citizenofmanassas said on 30 Jul 2007 at 5:23 pm:
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    Dolph,

    I was responding to a specfic question from TH. I am lucky that I do not live next to illegals. I’m sure there are a few in my neighborhood, since there are 250K(as estimated by the hispanic Pew resource center) in Va.

  86. citizenofmanassas said on 30 Jul 2007 at 5:27 pm:
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    TH,

    For the same reason other criminals are not being discussed in this thread. If there is a thread about welfare cheats, then I will post about it. I do not see an issue with talking about welfare cheats where it is appropriate, but this is a thread about illegal aliens.

    Overcrowding is not really allowed here either, but it still happens. I find it hard to believe there are not overcrowded homes in your area. Montgomery and PG counties put the welcome mat out for illegals.

  87. Dolph said on 30 Jul 2007 at 7:35 pm:
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    COM,

    And I was responding to the comment made by you at 1042 over IF.

    I and not participating in the discussion between you and TH.

  88. Mr. Hall said on 30 Jul 2007 at 8:01 pm:
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    I repeat my earlier question… Are any of you willing to spend any money (in the form of public/civic improvements) to make Manassas more attractive to people other than the poor or selfish. The City of Manassas is rock-bottom in spending (per capita) on virtually every measure of quality of life investment. You guys need to put your money where your mouths are and make Manassas more attractive to professionals and aspirational citizens in general. The primary reason people choose to live in Manassas now is because of the cheap (read, “crummy”) housing stock and low (lowest of the low) real estate taxes. With all of the illegal aliens choosing Manassas as their Northern Virginia mecca, we are only reaping what we have sown. Can’t even one of you say anything about how we make Manassas more attractive to a desirable demographic. I mean, are we going to lift a finger, or spend a dollar, to make this place better…. or are we just going to keep advertising to the World what a dump Manassas has become, thanks to the “no new taxes” live-cheap-then-die-crowd.

  89. Dolph said on 30 Jul 2007 at 8:37 pm:
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    Mr. Hall,

    Where did you ask that question? I am not a city resident but I think you are being extremely harsh.

    What improvements, specifically, would you make in Manassas that reflects quality of life investment?

    In fairness to the city, it is surrounded by Prince William County and there is no potential for expansion. I suggest if the housing is inadequate in Manassas City, move out to the Gainesville/Haymarket area. You can pay three quarters of a million on up for your house and if you look in the right area, get a decent sized lot.

    Most of us in the general area consider the city our ‘home city’ even if we don’t actually live in the jurisdiction. It is quaint, cute, and historic.

    Perhaps a little pride would make up for the fact that your taxes aren’t higher. Get involved in a beautify Manassas organization. I am sure some of the old guard over on Grant Avenue and in the Pill Hill area would welcome the additional help.

    Dolph

  90. citizenofmanassas said on 30 Jul 2007 at 9:49 pm:
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    Dolp,

    Then why did you ask me the question? I was responding to another post, and you took one of my sentences out of context, and attempted to twist the meaning of it.

  91. Dolph said on 30 Jul 2007 at 10:59 pm:
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    COM,

    OMG, why is this issue taking on a life of its own? I asked the question because I wanted to know the answer. Nothing nefarious here. Greg answered the question after I asked it, and completely to my satisfaction.

    I took nothing out of context nor did I twist it. I asked a freaking question. I got an answer. End of story.

  92. citizenofmanassas said on 31 Jul 2007 at 1:18 pm:
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    You did take it out of context. You said how did I know I had illegals living next to me, if you look at my response, it does not say I do, it says IF I DO… it is because there are multiple families living in the house…… Yet, you zeroed in on the fact somehow I could tell I had illegals living next to me, and ignored everything else in the post.

  93. Dolph said on 31 Jul 2007 at 5:49 pm:
    Flag comment

    COM, I only have so much patience…..This question is not all about you. I wanted to know how to tell if a person, a neighbor, is illegal. The question has been answered.

    I truly do not know how to make you understand that I wasn’t attacking you, questioning your credibility, or whatever you chose to read into my question. I have given it my best shot. Now I simply don’t give a rat’s rear end if you think it was an all out assault with a nuclear weapon. You have taken a 1 and turned it into a 10.

    Now it is time to take your meds. I dont have the temperament for these silly, attention-seeking games over something so unimportant. I repeat: I got the answer to my question. I now know what to look for. Please do not bring this up to me again.

  94. citizenofmanassas said on 31 Jul 2007 at 9:53 pm:
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    Fine, but don’t try to turn this into my issue. It was yours to start with…… I don’t know whatelse to say but to repost your post…

    Dolph said on 29 Jul 2007 at 11:10 pm:
    COM,

    Serious question here. How do you know the families living next door to you are illegal?

    Dolph

  95. Dolph said on 31 Jul 2007 at 11:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Would you feel better if I removed the you and said one?

    How does one know the families living next door are illegal? That is all I wanted to know. The you wasn’t YOU per say….

    Perhaps if you understood a little about my experiences you would understand better why I asked.

    My own work background involves huge numbers of hispanics where illegal vs legal is a non issue. Don’t ask dont tell environment. My mental categorizing is totally different than most folks on here. Not better, not worse, just different.

    I also have not had neighborhood issues. Up until very recently I have lived between either Mormon families or a family that has lived in their house since Hurricane Agnes. I now have a new neighbor. I am not really sure who lives over there. They dont bother me and their yard looks a lot better than mine at the moment. No chickens, loud parties or anti social behavior at all.

    So I wanted to know how ONE tells if one is legal or illegal. Perhaps there was something out there I didn’t know because I hadn’t inivestigated it at all.

    One of those things I have not needed to know…so I asked.

  96. citizenofmanassas said on 1 Aug 2007 at 1:52 pm:
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    OK. You right, you can’t tell just by looking if one is illegal or not. But, overcrowding is pretty good indication something is not right. The fact, you see many out of state tags on the cars parked at the overcrowded house is a good indication too. Many states such as Maryland, North Carolina, and Tennessee are known to hand out driver licenses to anyone who can pass their drivers test. If you see people in the ER for non ER issues, it is a pretty good chance they might be illegal.

    What makes it harder is the ease of buying “legal” documents on the black market, so even if one does have a SS card, or a Naturalization card or even a green card, does not mean they are legal.

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