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MS-13 And Immigration Policy

By Greg L | 27 July 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics, Crime | 79 Comments

The Washington Times has an interesting article regarding the growth of MS-13, which is increasingly visible in Northern Virginia. At the end of the article, there’s a quote from one of our elected officials who clearly understands the linkage between illegal aliens and dangerous street gangs such as MS-13.

“At my level of government, what frustrates me the most is that so many people stand in the way of tough policies against illegal immigration,” [Senator Ken Cuccinelli] said. “They either ignore it or don’t understand the connection to public safety, security and the community’s well-being.”

As I’ve walked around different neighborhoods in the Manassas area, I’ve come across several houses that neighbors believe are local safe houses for MS-13 gang members. One vacant property in Manassas Park was identified to me a house that MS-13 broke into and used for several weeks before an incident I reported involving the rape of a woman on Cabbel Street and the assault of a good samaritan who came to this victim’s aid. MS-13 activity in the area is so common, that when I speak with many area high-school students, they consistently tell me that they know of multiple locations where MS-13 is currently active, but are concerned about their safety if they reveal specifics.

Right now Governor Kaine has the authority to enroll the Commonwealth in the Section 287(g) Program which would ensure that criminal illegal aliens, such as MS-13 gang members, are deported at the end of their detention by the State Department of Corrections instead of being released back into the community where they can continue to prey on the law-abiding residents of Virginia. Governor Kaine has refused to do this, and Democratic House Caucus Leader Brian Moran has refused to call on the Governor to do so. This is but one of the things that Ken Cuccinelli is talking about here, and I share his frustration.

When the problem is so clearly evident, why are some elected officials in Virginia so dedicated to stonewalling our participation in federal programs that will help remove from our country illegal aliens who are worthy of being incarcerated in our state prison system? Is there some sort of multi-cultural benefit we are supposed to receive by having illegal alien felons in our midst, and if so what is this supposed to be?

Maybe Sharon Pandak, who is running against Corey Stewart (who helped drive the Section 287(g) Program in Prince William County) can tell us. She’s one of those putative leaders who whines about this being a federal problem, but apparently won’t support these state and local programs, as does Moran and Kaine. Just what do you intend to do with MS-13 members who are released from our prisons, Ms. Pandak, Mr. Moran, and Mr. Kaine? Enroll them in midnight basketball leagues?



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79 Comments

  1. ddpdrinker said on 27 Jul 2007 at 11:13 pm:
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    I think that until these elected officials, or a member of their families, are victims of a crime committed by an illegal, they’ll keep their heads in the sand and hope the problem just “goes away”.

  2. BornHere said on 27 Jul 2007 at 11:30 pm:
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    I’m so confused. The state senator you quote so approvingly is apparently ultra-aligned with Faisal Gill, who I thought was your nemesis. I guess anti-immigration politics makes strange bedfellows.

    The Va. political blogger in question is a fan of HSM though….or maybe the plug for your meeting was satire with the wrestler and all.

    http://goodbyeken.com/Cuccinelli/blog

  3. Greg L said on 27 Jul 2007 at 11:37 pm:
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    I support Ken Cucinelli’s stand on immigration issues, and he clearly deserves support in that regard. I’m not going to endlessly trash him just because he supported a candidate I didn’t particularly care for.

    I don’t have a nemesis to the best of my knowledge, unless you can dig up someone who has declared himself as such. Ricardo Juarez might qualify, though.

  4. BornHere said on 27 Jul 2007 at 11:54 pm:
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    My error then. I was drawing on the Post’s characterization of your interactions with Gill.

    …”has also waged a withering offensive against Faisal Gill, a Republican naval officer and former Homeland Security official of Pakistani descent who is the first Muslim nominee to the Virginia General Assembly.”

    but perhaps their characterization is in error. Wouldn’t be the first time.

  5. Jeff said on 28 Jul 2007 at 12:43 am:
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    William J. Howell is a Republican who is the Speaker of the Virginia House of Delegates. Brian Moran is not “Democratic House Speaker”. He is chairman of House Democratic Caucus in the Virginia House of Delegates. Ward Armstrong is the Democratic minority leader of the Virginia House of Delegates. Currently the Republicans hold 57 seats, and the Democrats have 40 seats in the House of Delegates. There are 3 Independents, also. The legislative elections this fall may change those numbers. Thanks.

  6. Jonathan Mark said on 28 Jul 2007 at 2:10 am:
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    I posted the notice about Help Save Manassas because I wanted to go and talk to the people there about Faisal Gill.

    If Cuccinelli is not willing to oppose Gill and Gallinger’s efforts to file asylum requests under U.N. law and other bogus, dilatory filings for illegal aliens then Cuccinelli shouldn’t even bother to pretend to care about this issue.

    Don’t believe that Cuccinelli’s convention endorsee Faisal Gill is filing asylum requests for illegal aliens based upon UN (not US!) law? Check out what Gill and Gallinger’s own webpage says about it:

    “”"We can also help you apply for Withholding of Removal (allowing you stay in the U.S. when otherwise eligible for deportation) and gaining protection based on the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

    Deportation/RemovalEven if you or your loved one is already in the process of being removed from the U.S., Gill & Gallinger may be able to help. We can help you qualify for protection from deportation based on Cancellation of Removal, Waiver of Deportation, Asylum, or other methods. Time is extremely important in situations dealing with possible removal, so
    contact the Gill & Gallinger today for a free consultation.”"”

    http://gillgallinger.com/practice_immigration.asp

  7. Greg L said on 28 Jul 2007 at 8:41 am:
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    Jeff, thanks for the clarification. The post has been updated to correctly identify Brian Moran’s leadership position.

  8. Ted said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:07 am:
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    Two articles in the post regarding the illegal immigration problem:

    Latinos Unite to Turn Fear Into Activism
    Pr. William Policy on Illegal Immigrants Prompts Call for Boycott, Other Actions

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072702423.html?hpid=artslot

    What struck me about this article is the apparent fear on the part of people who are here LEGALLY that somehow their children won’t be able to go to school, they’re going to be driven from their homes etc. The illegal mantra of “hate and racism” is having it’s effect.

    Also:
    Man, 18, Is Sentenced to Three Life Terms for Sexual Assault

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/27/AR2007072702215.html

    You find out in the 4th paragraph he was an illegal from El Slvador.

  9. Advocator said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:34 am:
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    Greg:

    There’s a fairly simple response to your question, “When the problem is so clearly evident, why are some elected officials in Virginia so dedicated to stonewalling our participation in federal programs that will help remove from our country illegal aliens who are worthy of being incarcerated in our state prison system?” VOTES. Prior to the [US] Senate’s refusal to bring the amnesty law to a vote, all politicians, especially Democrats and RINO’s like Tom Davis, just assumed that illegals would get citizenship, sooner or later, so they played along with the illegals. They were afraid of alienating the 20+ million putative citizens who would vote as a block, along with millions of others who would be encouraged to stream across our unprotected borders. Now that’s it’s pretty clear they’re not going to be granted an easy path to citizenship, the pols are cozying up to the anti-illegal crowd (e.g. Bob Fitz Simmonds). The Democrats and RINO’s will probably maintain their pro-illegal positions, just to molify the Hispanic (excluding the Cubans, God bless them) block vote which the Democrats have counted on since Operation Wetback, when Ike drove out millions of illegals. We need to continue to take advantage of this pendulum swing by electing Conservatives and getting laws passed that address, no matter how tangentially, the illegal problem. We need to continue to prompt our federal representatives, like Wolf, to simplify the deportation process under 8 USC 1101 et seq. A few simple tweaks and the bottleneck could be widened.

    One way or another, we’re going to take this country back.
    I’m off to the big gun show in Chantilly.

  10. Good Time Charlie said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:40 am:
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    Maybe Chief of Police Charlie Deane will help protect us from gang violence………….just kidding. He has to believe that gange exist in PWC before that could occur.

  11. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:44 am:
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    Advocator, could you advise as to how Ike drove out “millions of illegals”? I only ask since accounts of that operation are that the operation was successful in driving out only hundreds of thousands, or who knows, just over a million.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

    So I am curious where you got the Ike drove out “millions” data. It’s a pertinent question since many are advocating rounding up 12 to 20 million today and Ike never got shed of a total illegal population of considerably less, around 3 million, at a time with more resources for such things.

    Enjoy the gun show.

  12. Advocator said on 28 Jul 2007 at 1:38 pm:
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    Back from the gun show. I recommend it.

    Regarding Operation Wetback, the historical accounts I have read indicate that actual deportations numbered around 300,000, but that “millions” more left the US in order to avoid the operation and the deportation process. I consider the total effect of the operation to be tantamount to “driving out.” Regardless of the numbers, similar results would occur today, if the federal government simply started enforcing its law. Would all illegals be “driven out?” Absolutely not. But ridding ourselves of a large portion of the estimated 12-20 million illegals would not be as hard as some liberals would have you believe. Those remaining would have to assimilate and would probably become fine contributing Americans and part of the social fabric, at which point amnesty would be a much more palatable concept.

    My point is, and I think most on this blog would agree, that lack of enforcement by the federal government of its own laws, and failure to protect our borders, are the causes of the unsavory situation we little people are experiencing in our schools and neighborhoods. Some simple enforcement and redirection of federal resources would cure the problem fairly quickly. The Frank Wolf’s, Tom Davis’, John Warners, George Allens, and all the rest of the congressmen and senators who profess to believe in the rule of law are responsible for allowing the situation to develop. We should not forget nor forgive them for it. They were betting on amnesty. They lost. They owe us.

  13. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 2:21 pm:
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    Thanks Advocator, but I am still wondering where you get your figures. The article I posted, by someone writing approvingly of the Eisenhower era operation, gives a lower figure of those actually rounded up, a higher figure of those who left on their own accord, and no figure that both together could remotely add up to millions.

    How many millions of illegal immigrants targeted by the operation were here at the time to start with?

    The pro-operation article I posted says up to 3 million and gives the other numbers I mentioned. That accords with other reference sources on the web I have found. Would you mind supply a URL or two with other numbers that would conform with your statement:

    “millions” more left the US in order to avoid the operation and the deportation process.

    Or some specific historians by name?

  14. A teen who cares said on 28 Jul 2007 at 2:26 pm:
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    MS-13=JOKE. They bring their crimes, their ‘pride’ and yet their country is full of s***. If it’s so ‘awesome’ then leave this hard-working country of the brave alone. God. This makes me sick. At least two articles a day on the newspaper are about illegals doing something to this country…

    [Ed note: comment edited.]

  15. Carlos said on 28 Jul 2007 at 4:14 pm:
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    BornHere said: The pro-operation article I posted says up to 3 million and gives the other numbers I mentioned. That accords with other reference sources on the web I have found. Would you mind supply a URL or two with other numbers that would conform with your statement

    Isn’t 3 millon ‘millions?’

  16. BL said on 28 Jul 2007 at 4:28 pm:
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    Illegal Aliens are killing more Americans every year than the Terrorist have killed in the last 10 years combined while Raping, Robbing and Assaulting 10,s of thousands of American Citizens and we are suppose to feel sorry for them. An Uneducated, Educating Hating, Welfare Loving, Criminally inclined Aliens that have a school drop out rate over 50 percent and that breed like Rabbits on Viagra to Populate the Gangs and Welfare rolls! With over 50,000 Illegal Aliens gang Members in LA County alone. They come here illegally, protest and demand their rights instead of Protesting and demanding their Rights in their own Countries. Apparently their rights include the right to turn this country into a Lawless Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Drugs, Poverty, Cruelty, and Misery like they have built in Mexico and Latin American, just as long as it results in either Money or Votes for our Politicians!

  17. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 4:50 pm:
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    Carlos, the figure I have above of “up to 3 million” is the *total* number of illegal migrants/immigrants/whatever you wish to call them targeted by the famous Eisenhower operation according to this article and other sources.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

    Ie. I was referring to the total here when the operation began. Advocator said “millions” were driven out. However the article and other sources that I have give a much lower number out of that “up to 3 million” who were actually driven out (ie. were rounded up and deported or who left of their own accord in light of the threat). What those sources say is either the high hundred thousands or just over a million. So if that is true, then millions were not driven out.

    So I was asking Advocator first if he has a reference citation for the figure of the total number here at the time to be “driven out” and any source for his claim that “millions” were driven out, including what he described as some 300,000 actively deported and “millions” more leaving of their own accord. Cleared up?

  18. Anon said on 28 Jul 2007 at 5:07 pm:
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    http://cronicas.stanford.edu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=38&Itemid=53

    The number listed is 3,800,000 total which left the country either voluntarily or by deportation which jives with the numbers given in the book “Operation Wetback: The Mass Deportation of Mexican Undocumented Workers in 1954″ by Juan Ramon García. I would suggest those of you who actually want to learn from more than just a web site article to actually read it. It is slanted in the workers view but gives a good idea on what actually happened that year.

  19. Advocator said on 28 Jul 2007 at 5:31 pm:
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    Thanx, anon, but really, the numbers don’t matter. It’s the concept. Start enforcing the laws and, like most other crimes, the problem diminishes. Don’t believe the liberals and Zapatistas who claim there’s no way we could deport 20 million illegals. We just have to start making an effort.

    Is it BornHere or BornYesterday?

  20. Anon said on 28 Jul 2007 at 6:10 pm:
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    Advocator: I know that numbers don’t matter, but some people nitpick (you know who you are) because their other arguments are incredibly weak.

  21. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 6:11 pm:
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    Anon, thank you for the citation. What we have now are two different numbers and one comes from a Chicano Studies source (or at least a sentence on a chart) that you have said is slanted toward the workers so I guess there is a possibility they are exaggerating the numbers affected by what they would see as a horrible atrocity of mass deportation. But I certainly won’t dismiss it. We have a disputed number.

    In any case, I am grateful for an actual citation. I have a lot of mainstream reference books and when I have some time, I will try to find a reference from the period itself footnoted as to the number.

    Advocator, You say the United States could “deport” 20 plus million illegal immigrants on the basis of the Eisenhower Administration’s success in a different era with different resources and a great deal less respect for civil liberties.

    Assuming you found the money, personnel, and trucks, planes, and ships needed (since huge numbers would be crossing the Atlantic and Pacific) could you give some indication of how you would go about identifying who should be deported and most importantly, to me anyway, how you would uphold the Constitution of the United States so as to not take civil liberties away from all of those who are here legally but resemble who you think might be illegal? Would there be some way to identify someone who had already confirmed he or she were not illegally here so that he or she could avoid being stopped by the police or by vigilantes over and over? Would you guarantee some sort of legal redress for people who were illegally detained or harassed by the system you set up for the deportations? I am just trying to unpack the “We’re America, we can do anything we set our minds to,” statement and get some practical idea of what you intend. I guess you have a lot of faith in government planning, despite Katrina, occupied Iraq, etc. etc. Or do you intend these deportations to be extra-legal by militias?

  22. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 6:12 pm:
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    Ah, the Anon from the other thread. With all the talk about roosters, perhaps there should be talk about chicken instead.

  23. dolphin_Moon said on 28 Jul 2007 at 7:47 pm:
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    Advocator, I am who said it would be nearly impossible to deport 12 million illegal immigrants, much less 20 million. I hardly consider myself a liberal. Do the math. 12 million is a lot of people and would require a lot of resources. If someone can come up with a logic, realistic scheme to accomplish this task, I would be interested in hearing it.

    I dont think we have the resources or the huzpah to accomplish this.

    Dolph

  24. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 8:20 pm:
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    If you enforce it they will leave. They are already leaving Georgia and Colorado in the wake of some mildly anti-illegal legislation that passed recently.

    At any rate, we probably won’t ever know if enforcement works, until we try. But unfortunately dolphin moon, we may never know that, because your lot keeps trying to do everything they can to block or emasculate enforcement.

  25. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 8:22 pm:
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    Advocator, You say the United States could “deport” 20 plus million illegal immigrants on the basis of the Eisenhower Administration’s success in a different era with different resources and a great deal less respect for civil liberties.

    No worries about “civil liberties” honey — if corrupt, drug-gang controlled Mexico continues its here-to-fore stunningly successful colonization of the US, there won’t be any civil liberties left to worry your pretty little head about.

  26. Advocator said on 28 Jul 2007 at 8:38 pm:
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    Mary gets it, I’m sure BornYesterday and Dull Fin Moon could if they tried hard enough. Start enforcing the law, and many illegals would leave here the same way they came, or they would drive their SUV’s, just to avoid the apprehension and deportation process. I’d like to meet them at the border to pass out AK-47’s so they could get their own countries straight. Unfortunately, I don’t think they’ve got the huevos for that kind of action. They’d rather prey on us.

    We’ve got the resources, easily. The Chutzpah? I know I do, but I can only speak for myself. Do you?

  27. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 8:49 pm:
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    OT but related:

    Looks like about 350-400 pro-sovereignty folks rallied today in Morristown NJ in support of 287(g).

    http://www.amny.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj–immigrationrally0728jul28,0,3708148.story?coll=am-moviereview-headlines

    If this rally had been in Mexifornia the pro-sovereignty protesters would have been physically attacked and brutally beaten by the “tolerant” pro-illegal aliens.

    Press account doesn’t say, but it sounds like the pro-illegals tried to storm the stage to shut up the pro-sovs.

    (If it were pro-sovs who had transgressed like that the MSM account would surely have mentioned it, so we know it was pro-illegals.)

  28. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 8:49 pm:
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    Advocator they are being DIRECTED by their government to invade us, so no we can’t expect them to hold their government accountable for their misery.

  29. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:07 pm:
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    Mary gets it, I’m sure BornYesterday and Dull Fin Moon could if they tried hard enough.

    I suspect that Born Here is a professional — seen enough of ‘em in my time. I’ve been active in the pro-sov movement for about a year.

  30. Anonymous said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:13 pm:
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    Advocator, we have the resources easily? From where? ICE doesn’t have the resources now to do even a tiny fraction of what you describe. The military? They are busy. If there are 20 million illegal immigrants here, that means at least a couple of million who are not from countries in the Americas and would have to be deported by sea or plane across both oceans, unless you wish the American government not to follow international law regarding deportation. So I ask again, is this to be a legal procedure as the Eisenhower-era operation was, or an extra-legal one?

    It would be nice if you could avoid the childishness of mangling names and be civil with people who disagree with you, but I guess that is too much to ask , or maybe I am mistaken in thinking you are an adult.

  31. manassascityresident said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:14 pm:
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    Advocator -
    I’ll be right by your side because I do have the Chutzpah! And I bet we could recruit Mary!

    Attn Virginians - If you want a dose of reality and a glimpse what we’re in for, you need to read Mary’s comments on the “REVOLUTION” thread. It’s a real eye opener for many who still “don’t get it”….

    Mary - I agree, BornHere is a professional.

  32. BornHere said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:14 pm:
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    Oops, my mistake. That should not have been Anon. I didn’t realize the boxes were blanks. Above is BornHere.

  33. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:21 pm:
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    Advocator, we have the resources easily? From where? ICE doesn’t have the resources now to do even a tiny fraction of what you describe.

    Professional, we can always hire more ICE agents. If your lot would allow us to do that, which of course, you have no intention of doing.

    Cute trick isn’t it? Do everything you can to thwart enforcement politically, and then moan “but it’s logistically impossible!”

    Ain’t falling for it.

  34. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:31 pm:
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    Above is BornHere.
    No problem, we recognized the rude, condescending verbosity right off.

  35. manassascityresident said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:37 pm:
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    EXACTLY…
    That didn’t sound like Anon - but it DID sound like BornHere….

  36. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 9:38 pm:
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    Ah, here ’s another account of the events in Morristown NJ today. As I suspected, all of the people who were arrested for attempts at physical intimidation were pro-illegals:

    http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070728/UPDATES01/707280350

    They’re so PEACEFUL and TOLERANT ya know.

    Notice how the pro-illegals can’t even stomach 287(g) which is only applicable to checking the immigration status of people arrested for serious crimes. They’d rather see our children raped and murdered than see one precious member of la raza deported.

    How’s that for the pro-illegals’ “loyalty” to the US?

  37. dolphin_Moon said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:20 pm:
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    Mary, what exactly do you mean by my ‘lot?’ Realists? People who can do math? People who have watched our government neglect their responsibilities regarding immigration?

    I have yet to hear via our lawmakers, people on this blog, etc how we are going to detain 12-20 million people much less return them to their country of origin.

    It is easier for you and your buddies to call names and assume you know what a person’s stance is than to face the reality of the math. I am all ears…tell me how you are going to do this?

    If you can fit 300 people on a plane leaving Dulles, how many planes can you fly out a day? Where are you going detain these people? Will they have a hearing? How are you going to change the current policy of do-nothingness in this country?

    Until you come up with real solutions to these questions, all I hear is BS and bluster. Are you truly afraid of adult discussion?

    Dolph

  38. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:27 pm:
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    Until you come up with real solutions to these questions, all I hear is BS and bluster. Are you truly afraid of adult discussion?

    Look, we’ve explained it again and again and again. Are you cognitively impaired?

    1.) Enforce the law. Penalize employers. Raids on employers. Increased usage of 287(g) across the country so we can at least get rid of the criminal ones. They will leave when the jobs start drying up.

    2.) End “free” benefits to illegals that attracts them and allows them to continue working here at cut-rate wages. (And which also is a form of corporate welfare.) They will leave when the “free” benefits start drying up. See Colorado and Georgia.

    3.) Close the borders. If it takes military engagement to do it, I have no problem with that. The Mexican government sends its military into our territory all the time to protect its illegal alien smugglers and drug smugglers.

    Should put a dent in the problem. I’m not looking for all-or-nothing solutions like you obviously are. Just want to get rid of enough of them so that it feels like we have our own country again.

  39. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:28 pm:
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    How are you going to change the current policy of do-nothingness in this country?

    We’re trying, but people like you keep trying to stop us whatever we try. See Hazleton PA.

  40. manassascityresident said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:36 pm:
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    Mary - PRECISELY !

    D_M - you are so negative. Mary has reasonable solutions, they won’t instantly end the problem, but they are a start. It beats doing nothing. You on the other hand, slap everything down as an impossibility.

    Do you have any suggestions on how to combat the current problem?

  41. dolphin_Moon said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:43 pm:
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    Mary,

    What time is it? Orange.

    The question I asked is how to implement deportation of all the illegal immigrants who are in this country. Moving from locality to locality is not deportation.

    I am going to ask you to multi-task and explain to me about my ‘lot’ and how I have tried to stop anyone from enforcing immigration laws.

    Dolph

  42. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:46 pm:
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    The question I asked is how to implement deportation of all the illegal immigrants who are in this country. Moving from locality to locality is not deportation.

    And I said, that is not my goal, my goal is a good start on the problem. How many times do I have to repeat myself?

    I am going to ask you to multi-task and explain to me about my ‘lot’ and how I have tried to stop anyone from enforcing immigration laws.

    You seem to be a guy who is against any form of enforcement of our immigration laws. If I’ve mischaracterized you, and you do indeed support enforcement measures, my abject apologies.

  43. NoVA Scout said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:48 pm:
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    It’s entertaining to see guys like Cucinelli and Bolling trying to elbow their way to the front of this throng now that they think it’s going in a direction that gets votes. It sure changes the subject from the joke of the once bally-hooed transportation bill, doesn’t it?

  44. Greg L said on 28 Jul 2007 at 10:51 pm:
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    One answer to the question of how to remove millions of illegal aliens that has been interesting is called the “attrition strategy”. The gist of this is to reduce the number of available jobs for illegals and do better on law enforcement, and many of the illegals will, over time, voluntarily repatriate themselves back to their home countries. It’s not about removing 20 million illegals in one fell swoop, but increasing the pressure on illegal activity, forcibly removing some, and encouraging the remainder to do it themselves.

    For more information on this, see http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back605.html

  45. Dolph said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:02 pm:
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    Mary,

    I am a female and I am not against enforcement of current immigration laws. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

    I do challenge the reality of promoting deportation for all illegal immigrants. I simply do not think it is possible to do. Deporting criminals who commit violent crimes, theft, etc is another matter. I would probably opt for using closed military bases rather than deportation though because of the revolving door syndrome. Capture/recapture seems like a tremendous waste of time.

    What guy would even consider a nome de plume like dolphin_moon. Sorry, I couldn’t resist that.

    Dolph

  46. Dolph said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:05 pm:
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    Greg L,

    Thanks for a direct answer. That is much more realistic than a massive round up for sure.

    Dolph

  47. Mary said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:14 pm:
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    I do challenge the reality of promoting deportation for all illegal immigrants. I simply do not think it is possible to do.

    Well, I think we can deport at least few million which will at least provide some tax relief to the middle class as well as make a point to the drug-gang controlled, corrupt oligarchy that passes for a “government” in Mexico. And I do believe that many others will go home on their own if we enforce our laws and stop subisidizing their “cheap” labor. But we’ll never know unless we try right?

    I would probably opt for using closed military bases rather than deportation though because of the revolving door syndrome. Capture/recapture seems like a tremendous waste of time.

    If we had a militarized border then revolving door wouldn’t be as much of a problem.

    What guy would even consider a nome de plume like dolphin_moon. Sorry, I couldn’t resist that.

    Heh. I’m a Californian. Doesn’t seem unlikely to me at all. :)

  48. Dolph said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:27 pm:
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    I have no problem with militarizing the borders as long as we dont court martial the first soldier who shoots a drug smuggler in the butt.

    Dolph

  49. Jonathan Mark said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:34 pm:
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    Why is the focus so much on Hispanic illegal immigrants? A large percentage of illegal immigrants are from Europe, Asia or Africa.

    I have a feeling that Gill and Gallinger’s illegal alien and deportee clients are not from this hemisphere. Focusing only on Hispanic illegals permits Gill and Gill’s 3/31/07 endorsers and podium speakers Bolling, Cuccinelli, McQuigg, Stewart and Lingamfelter to turn a blind eye to what Gill and Gallinger are doing.

    You can read Gill and Gallinger’s advertising directed at illegal immigrants and deportees here:

    http://gillgallinger.com/practice_immigration.asp

    “Time is extremely important in situations dealing with possible removal, so contact the Gill & Gallinger [sic] today for a free consultation.”

    “Free consultation” on how Gill and Gallinger can help you remain in the USA despite being here illegally, that is.

    We should continue to question the commitment of those such as Cuccinelli, et al who claim to be opposed to illegal immigration yet seek to place an immigration law firm partner, Faisal Gill, in Richmond.

  50. Greg L said on 28 Jul 2007 at 11:39 pm:
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    If we finally got an effective response from the federal government which instead of continuing to improve control over our borders is now reducing military support of ICE at the border and not making headway at all on interior enforcement, and then gave localities the tools to more effectively participate in this, over time we could reduce the numbers of illegal aliens and make this problem manageable.

    One key in this is that everything has to be gradual so as to not cause additional problems on top of the ones we have. Although it might seem at first preferable to have every illegal alien removed from our community tomorrow, the execution of that plan would likely not be humane and would probably result in some shocks to the local economy. Fortunately government moves at a pace only slightly more rapid than the movement of pond water, so chances of a dramatic shift are terribly remote.

    This is a problem that has developed over decades, and unfortunately it might take years to fix this. In the end, that timeframe may work to our benefit. Regardless, citizens need to see that progress is being made, and certainly demand that the problem doesn’t continue to worsen.

  51. Scott said on 29 Jul 2007 at 12:16 am:
    Flag comment

    I found this interesting:

    http://www.jbs.org/node/4840

    Apparently Hispanics are considered “white” in many parts of the country as far as crime statistics go.

  52. Advocator said on 29 Jul 2007 at 12:17 am:
    Flag comment

    The only solution
    may be armed revolution.

    I’m ready.

  53. Greg L said on 29 Jul 2007 at 12:31 am:
    Flag comment

    Scott: you might want to take a look at the sex offender registry. If you think that’s bad, wait till you see what you discover there.

    Advocator: although I’m sure I have at least the material resources to resist a revolution that you do, that is absolutely the last thing I would ever hope for. I’ve worn a uniform long enough to understand just how horrible that concept really can be. Let’s hope the political process works, and invest in it’s success. I’ll never be ready for it’s failure.

  54. Mary said on 29 Jul 2007 at 1:55 am:
    Flag comment

    Greg L,

    Our “government” has severely broken the social contract with its citizenry. Let us count the ways the government has broken the social contract with us:

    –It lays a tax buden on us that we cannot redress through our representatives (i.e. court-mandated, tax-payer funded entitlements for illegals) — in other words taxation without representation.

    –It refuses to protect our citizenship rights, and therefore, our property rights. Our nation is the property of its citizenry. By not protecting our citizenship rights, they are violating our property rights.

    –It has established a two-tiered justice system: one system of law for the native-born and legal immigrants, another, more lenient system of law for the illegals (basically, NO laws for them)

    –At least some members of our “government” have colluded with a foreign power against the democratic will of the sovereign citizenry (see Prop. 187 in California and how the Mexican government in collusion with California state officials, colluded to overturn the results of a democratic referendum on providing “free” benefits to illegals)

    –It allows “sanctuary” cities to pass pro-illegal-alien laws then screams that immigration is a federal issue when cities try to pass anti-illegal-alien laws. This is selective enforcement of the law.

    At the very least, and I believe this is constitutionally mandated, we have the right to petition Congress for return of our tax monies in light of the fact that they are not performing essential services, as we have the right to expect them to perform.

  55. Mary said on 29 Jul 2007 at 3:36 am:
    Flag comment

    YOU ALL ARE RACIST

  56. Legal2 said on 29 Jul 2007 at 7:30 am:
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    Mary at 1:55 am: Let’s not forget the $7 million recently given to the anarchist Zapatista indoctrination schools in CA. Here is info to start you off:

    http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:-2m0QaI5NZQJ:wizbangblog.com/content/2006/06/02/la-razas-public-charter-school-1.php+video+la+raza+schools,+ca&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

    Thank you, Mary, for all the info you have provided. I hope the pro-ills will learn something and, if not convinced, move on. They are a broken record that does not add to our efforts.

  57. Legal2 said on 29 Jul 2007 at 7:35 am:
    Flag comment

    Then try: http://michellemalkin.com/2006/06/02/aztlan-101/
    Kind of confirms that Joe McCarthy was right; which is why the libs still scream “mcarthyism”.

  58. Patty said on 29 Jul 2007 at 8:18 am:
    Flag comment

    Mary,

    Do I need to read to you the definition of racist from the McGraw-Hill Children’s Dictionary. I’m sorry, I have to laugh everytime I hear someone use the word racist. When they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, they holler racist as if throwing a temper tantrum will eventually work in their favor. I believe that the citizens of this county know how to handle temper tantrums. Go ahead use the “racist card”. It only reveals your level of intelligence.

  59. Legal2 said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:29 am:
    Flag comment

    Patty, I believe Mary was being facetious, anticipating a lefty reply.

  60. Legal2 said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:35 am:
    Flag comment

    Another good video to show the poor, law-abiding (sarcasm) revolutionaries:

    http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?page_id=810

  61. Legal2 said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:40 am:
    Flag comment

    more evidence: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8063999731982990236

  62. manassascityresident said on 29 Jul 2007 at 10:31 am:
    Flag comment

    Thanks, Legal2 -
    I recommend everyone watch these videos, and send them to all you know. WAKE UP AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!!!

  63. ChicanaFeliz said on 29 Jul 2007 at 11:18 am:
    Flag comment

    I am from California and the Mara Salvatrucha, not MS-13 is basically a very violent gang and functions much like any other normal cholos in Los Angeles. Think of them as teenage kids who do not consider themselves to be American, feel the rejection from White Americans who are self-entitled to this land and treat the Mara as people that do not belong to this country. Now, when I say la mara, I mean gang. Another thing is that you guys are dumb, in order to eradicate gangs you have to get inside the head of gang members and understand why they feel rejected. All gang members are just suffering an identity crisis. In order to stop gang members from assaulting people #1 you have to stop fearing them enough and knock on their door and meet the families. Meet the mothers, fathers, uncles and grandmothers that don’t even have a clue that their child could be a gang member. I know that back in LA some of my mexican aunts or uncles were so Mexican by culture that they didn’t even realize that their kids were using guns or buying clothes that was part of cholo culture. If you really want to get rid of gangs you need to educate, NOT THE KIDS, but the parents what is a gang member. What are the “signs to notice” if your kid is in a gang. You’re not going to get rid of gang culture by throwing them in jail. That’s where they get trained by the real MS-13 and makes them stronger. The gangs are controlled by people in Jail. I can tell that Virginian’s are new to gangs, and don’t know how to eradicate them by all of your stupid ignorant comments on this blog. You guys seriously have no idea what you’re dealing with. You use the word illegal as a blanket statement and don’t even realize or know that the “status” of immigration will always be different for everyone. Not every latino you see on the street is illegal, most of all, I know that not every white person on a NYC subway is American. How do we know if the white people among us here are canadians. Did you know that over 50% of illegal aliens in the US are not of latino descent? They are these Graduate and Undergraduate international students that come in here with a traveling or student visa and allow them to expire. They stay here and get married to an american college girl of whatever color and race just to get the blue passport. So when you look @ a mexican or a member of the Mara Salvatrucha, you’re only looking @ half of the problem. Why don’t you racists look @ the illegal alien white people also, so called, draining the economy. Oh and #1 illegal aliens don’t tend to collect on their taxes because they think that submitting paperwork to the IRS will get them busted by the INS (DHS). So actually, every undocumented worker ( i don’t use the word illegal) pays Social Security or else their employer would get busted.
    You really want to solve the immigration issue, bust the white men picking up the undocumented workers not the worker. With no jobs the workers would go home.

  64. Mary said on 29 Jul 2007 at 11:20 am:
    Flag comment

    Legal 2:

    Someone immature is impersonating me. I did not make the last few posts entitled ‘Mary’.

    I appeal to the moderator to remove those posts that are not mine. You can tell which are which by the email address supplied.

    Thanks!

  65. Mary said on 29 Jul 2007 at 11:36 am:
    Flag comment

    I am from California and the Mara Salvatrucha, not MS-13 is basically a very violent gang and functions much like any other normal cholos in Los Angeles. Think of them as teenage kids who do not consider themselves to be American, feel the rejection from White Americans who are self-entitled to this land and treat the Mara as people that do not belong to this country.

    Oh please, it’s gotta be whitey’s fault no matter what? That excuse isn’t even worthy of the pixel space you used up to write it. As for the mara-13, if they’re here illegally, then they DON’T belong in this country. End of story.

    If you really want to get rid of gangs you need to educate, NOT THE KIDS, but the parents what is a gang member. What are the “signs to notice” if your kid is in a gang. You’re not going to get rid of gang culture by throwing them in jail.

    Best thing to do about gangs is to stop them from coming in the first place, by sealing the border and enforcing our immigration laws. As for “gnag education programs,” we are not interested. We native-born Californians already pay through the nose at it is for all the “free” things we provide to illegals and anchor babies.

    You really want to solve the immigration issue, bust the white men picking up the undocumented workers not the worker. With no jobs the workers would go home.

    Good idea. The Minutemen in SoCal show up at day labor sites and actually try to stop the people who hire illegals (not all of them are white — a good number are brown). But the pro-illegals try to stop the Minutemen from doing this so I would question how serious the pro-illegals are in going after employers.

  66. Mary said on 29 Jul 2007 at 11:41 am:
    Flag comment

    If anyone’s interested, here is a report on how the Mexican drug cartels are taking over whole SoCal towns, getting their corrupt puppets on city councils, etc.:

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/7/prweb541672.htm

  67. Dolph said on 29 Jul 2007 at 12:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mara Salvatrucha is MS-13. Many gang members are not undocumented.

    All parents need to become aware of the local gang activities in their communities, regardless of their ethnicity. It is a safety issue if nothing else.

    Don’t knock community resources here in Virginia. We aren’t quite as savvy as Californians about such matters. Parents can do more to curtail gang activity than any other single source. A well-armed parent is an educated parent.

  68. Mary said on 29 Jul 2007 at 1:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    Many gang members are not undocumented.

    I/2 of the gang members in LA are illegal aliens. LA could literally cut its gang problem in half if it deported them, but it is a “sanctuary” city so there’s nothing the police can do about it. “Sanctuary” cities are magnets for gang criminals. All “Sanctuary” cities and the one “sanctuary” county in California are severely infested with gangs.

    Instead the “mayor” of LA prefers to beg Washington for 1 billion dollars in taxpayer funds to “fight gangs.”

    We let ‘em in, then we pay through the nose to “fight” them.

    Makes a lot of sense doesn’t it?

  69. Scott said on 29 Jul 2007 at 3:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    ChicanaFeliz: I worked in a maximum security prison with many gang members including MS 13, so spare me the “you don’t know what you are talking about” line. I personally could not care less the personal problems of these scum bags or what leads them to be in a gang. If their family members are not aware of what their own kids are doing then the problem lies there, not with the “bad white people who are oppressing them”. Clowns like you continue to pull the race card, it has nothing to do with race but everything to do with the fact that these people are not here legally, are committing crimes against our citizens and have been linked with helping Al Qaeda terrorist sleeper cells come into the country. We are a country of laws, when that system breaks down as it is starting to do now chaos results. I’ve personally dealt with more than one white alien who was deported after committing a crime, so don’t talk like you are the only one who knows a damn thing and act like the rest of us are ignorant.

  70. Advocator said on 29 Jul 2007 at 4:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mary:

    Our politicians, not us, have let them in for their own selfish reasons (see my post above to Greg). As always, it’s we, the people, who suffer for our leaders’ sins. Those who have allowed it, starting with Jorge Bush, already have their names knitted into a list of infamy.

    Greg:

    I too have known, participated in, and equally loathe the horror of war and combat close and personal. But I would rather risk participation in that horror again, even though my sight isn’t as keen, my reflexes aren’t as quick, and my muscles aren’t quite as taut, than surrender this country to an alien invasion. I will continue to participate in the political process, but I am using this rainy afternoon to clean and oil my guns. I highly recommend readiness. It gives much-needed substance to the otherwise spicy and watery stew known as rhetoric.

  71. park'd said on 29 Jul 2007 at 7:18 pm:
    Flag comment

    I went out this weekend myself and shot off 100 rounds or so through my 9mm at our family farm in WVa. Amazing how bad my aim has gotten…

    It’s been a while since I’ve been out there and I forgot how nice it is to go to a town where there aren’t 10000000000 illegals (that one is for you bornhere since I know how much you love it when I refer to them as a noun) cramming the roads and stores. Then I had to drive back here and get back to real life. I feel like the lady on the commercial: Calgon man take me away….

  72. TH said on 29 Jul 2007 at 7:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    “Although it might seem at first preferable to have every illegal alien removed from our community tomorrow, the execution of that plan would likely not be humane and would probably result in some shocks to the local economy”
    Greg L,
    I thought I had to comment on your post because I don’t hear people saying anything about it.
    Why do you think sending all the illegal aliens back to their countries affect the conomy? I don’t hear that from other people int his blog. It seems that most people think that everything will be fine. You are the leader in this group and it would be great to hear your opinion (maybe another post has clarified this issue already).

  73. Liz said on 29 Jul 2007 at 7:33 pm:
    Flag comment

    Hi,

    I would like to tell all the federales who have become best friends of the illegal immigrants that in their country of origin, members of MS 13 are hunted down by a posse that goes by the name of Mano Nigra (the black hand). When these fellows are repatriated, their biggest fear is to be found by these people, who are usually law enforcement members or ex law enforcement trying to get rid of the most violent, useless band of criminals ever to cross the earth. These vigilantes prawl the streets at night to find and hunt down these criminals. Their aim is not to rehabilitate, not to incarcerate, but only to eliminate.

    I would like to know why we should be hospitable to these criminals when their own people want to get rid of them. I think that extradition is the only policy for gang members. They represent the biggest, most expensive challenge to our society. Sending them to prison, however only results in more members being created through their recruitment within the prison walls. They must be isolated and then extradited. I am for reinstitution of penal colonies. Nothing wrong with isolating people who want to destroy the fabric of our society.

    The punishment for belonging to gangs should be commensurate to the danger they pose. By all means isolate them, incarcerate them and extradite them.

  74. TH said on 29 Jul 2007 at 7:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    Mano Negra doesn’t exist in El Salvador anymore. The only people killing MS-13 in El Salvador or Honduras is the Mara 18. They are killing among each other.

  75. Good Time Charlie said on 29 Jul 2007 at 9:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    What does a liberal say when they have lost a debate related to social policy and integration?

    Answer: You are a racist.

    I love to watch minority citizens & legal hispanic residents argue with liberals against illegal immigration.

    It isn’t easy being a white guy.

  76. Dolph said on 29 Jul 2007 at 10:07 pm:
    Flag comment

    We are not alone. The United Kingdom has horrible immigration problems. Assylum seems to be one of their biggest issues.

    A friend sent me the following url several years ago. It isn’t heavy reading.

    http://www.hsite.co.uk/edy/docs/asylum.swf

  77. Dolph said on 29 Jul 2007 at 10:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    Any non-citizen who is convicted of a violent act should be deported when they are released from prison. We have enough of our own thugs to contend with.

  78. Moore4SaferUS said on 10 Aug 2007 at 10:28 am:
    Flag comment

    The fact is there is a LARGE concentration of MS13 in Northern Virginia. Prince William county leads the way in numbers, with Fairfax close behind.
    Manassas is #1 in PWC as far as membership - this is directly connected to the number of illegals. Not saying all illegals are MS, but most MSers are illegal.
    What we need are tougher laws and sentencing for the gang bangers, with deportation inclued as a guarantee.

  79. Moore4SaferUS said on 10 Aug 2007 at 3:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Dolph,
    It is US Policy to deport convicted criminals (that are illegal aliens) to their country of origin AFTER they serve their prison term. So, we’re still paying to house and feed them. I am a little confused though because I found instances where illegals were sent back before they ever went to trial, much less served time. I am trying to get to the bottom of it.

    Some may call me liberal, but I’m closer to the center. I do not like the far left and certainly not the Extreme right. I am mostly liberal in my views, but this topic is an exception. This administration (or the previous) should have tackled this issue long ago. Each day, the problem grows (literally).
    I’d really like someone to explain to me how New Haven, CT is getting away with issuing I.D. cards to illegal immigrants. Why aren’t they slapping the cuffs on them when they approach the counter to apply for the I.D.?
    I must not understand the definition of ‘illegal immigrant’—hmmm the first word seems clear enough. I feel bad for the people in NewHaven, ahem the legal citizens.
    Truly, I don’t see how this is Legal- can anyone clear it up for me?

    The bottom line is we need to enforce and enhance our laws. Give police the right to question citizenship. Get someone in the White House with the kohonas to do something about it, instead of wanting to throw up a white flag- “Amnesty, get your amnesty here.” W stands for WUSS

    doh I didn’t mean to open a can of worms- please disregard my last comment on the W

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