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Congress Better Start Listening
By Greg L | 8 August 2007 | National Politics, Illegal Aliens | 123 Comments
The citizens are outraged, and Congress is rightly being viewed as the problem. The bitter frustration over the federal government’s abject failure to defend our borders and protect the citizens from millions of border-jumpers isn’t just being expressed in generally conservative jurisdictions, but in generally more liberal ones as well. Nothing is bridging the partisan divide like the issue of illegal aliens.
From yesterday’s opinion page in the Fairfax County Times:
Americans don’t want citizenship to be mocked and given away to millions to serve a political agenda of ethno-centric groups, or a political party. Many senators were outraged at citizens expressing their constitutional rights by calling and e-mailing, but expressed no outrage at the mass demonstrations last year by illegal aliens and their supporters that called America names, raised the Mexican flag in place of the American flag in some places, and demanded rights as if they had the same Constitutional rights as citizens.
They did it with impunity because they know that our laws aren’t enforced. Americans are tired of this, and the effect it has on our communities; obviously where the senators do not live.
Americans are tired of excuses as to why our immigration laws aren’t enforced. All the outrage by certain senators was aimed at their constituents for “daring” to express their rights in democracy. No outrage was expressed at our culture being undermined by those who think it is unimportant to assimilate, to learn English, to respect housing code laws, and to pay taxes. No outrage at the death of citizens killed by criminal illegal aliens, or towards those who steal identities of citizens to collect service benefits or gain employment.
Congress better start listening, and stop calling those concerned about what illegal aliens are doing to our communities names. This outrageous behavior from Republicans and Democrats alike who are agitating for amnesty for illegal aliens is not going to be forgotten in the next Congressional elections.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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Here are some excerpts from today’s Wash. Times article.
Do you still think open borders and illegal immigration are harmless?
Terrorists teaming with drug cartels
August 8, 2007 Washington Times
By Sara A. Carter - Islamic extremists embedded in the United States — posing as Hispanic nationals — are partnering with violent Mexican drug gangs to finance terror networks in the Middle East, according to a Drug Enforcement Administration report.
“Hearings I held in Laredo [Texas] last year and this DEA report show that our southern border is a terrorist risk,” Mr. Royce said. “Law enforcement has warned that people from Arab countries have crossed the border and adopted Hispanic surnames. The drug cartels have highly sophisticated smuggling and money-laundering networks, which terrorists could access.”
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/07/ap3996480.html
We need to start seeing this kind of activity in our local area soon in order for our problems to start getting resolved.
http://www.laraza.com/news.php?nid=45631
Ridiculous!
http://capwiz.com/nclr/issues/?style=D
NCLR must be put on a watch list!
I am interested in finding out if the identity of the VDOT subcontractor employing the illegal alien Escobar brothers has been revealed? If so, has ICE sent the Escobar brothers on their summer vacation to visit relatives in Mexico?
For that matter, how does Homeland Security react to the idea of illegal aliens working on our state’s infrastructure, and in VDOT uniform?
Patriot,
What is ridiculous about what Illinois is doing?
I thought you were about dealing with legal vs illegal issues. I don’t see anything there that reflects those issues. in fact we see there a Latino woman who represents that first generation of immigrants who have assimilated (went to college, speaks English, involved in the political process, etc).
In illinois all the other groups are represented too so i don’t see a problem there. i lived in the Chicago area for almost four years and I can say that most latinos in that area have assimilated. Most of them have been there since the 1940s’.
Construction and landscaping companies should be first on the list in our local area for ICE. Imagine the potential numbers that could be deported from this alone! Then McDonalds, Wendy’s, and all the other restaurants.
One question for all of you. I haven’t seen any comments about Specter’s letter to senators on restarting the immigration debate. There was an open letter in the WAPO one of these days that he wrote. He says that there is support to pass a bill that will grant legal status to illegal immigrants btu not citizenship.
What do you think about that?
TH…it is ridiculous because there is NO need for ethno-centric departments! Are there departments for ALL of the other ethnic groups in America?
TH…furthermore…all of these “ethnic-centric” groups spout off about “diversity”. However, isn’t it interesting that their rhetoric, policies, and actions are for the furtherance of only their ethnic-centric group (not for the good of ALL Americans). How is that diverse? It isn’t!
You have a point. I think that all people should see themselves as americans but the politicak reality is that we still assign names to groups when it comes to election times.
I think that waht this lady was referring to has to do with the realities of the neighborhoods that she was talking about. Cicero, IL for example has a population of 85 % latinos but the services they received are very limited when compared to other neighborhoods. I worked there so I have seen that reality.
Then as the different ethnic groups get more power in the political arena, you will see that these types of offices start to get funded.
Again, I agree with you about this emphasis on diversity for the sake of it but this is not a new issue. You can find the same thing with Jew, Italians, Irish, and other immigrants in the past
TH…I don’t believe that those “other” groups had a powerful lobbying group like the NCLR.
TH…groups and businesses that pander to ethno-centric groups are doing a disservice. They are creating divisions in communities vice bringing all groups together.
I think you give too much credit to La Raza (which by the way although is means literally The Race, it is just an expression used in Mexico to refer the common people and not to show superiority among other races).
In places such as Chicago, you don’t hear a lot about NCLR because Latinos are clearly represented in most political stuctures. Race is not a major issue there.
Regarding your remark, I see other groups represented: The Rainbow Coalition is one example. You cannot deny that there are a lot of groupos representing Jewish interest out there too.
TH…please! Have you listened to Janet (CEO from NCLR)? I have and she dodges questions regarding this very thing. Here is another “diversity” article: http://www.timesfreepress.com/absolutenm/templates/content.aspx?articleid=18638&zoneid=83
I guess “diversity” exists when it is only Latino/Hispanic???
I know that people frame the Manassas issue as legal vs. illegal but many of you have been very clear to express the sentiment that most of the issues you face have to do with the lack of respect for american values that the illegal aliens show. That is a cultural problem and not something that you can limit to illegal aliens. I know a lot of legal aliens who have not assimilated after years of living in this country. The common factor has to do with lack of education.
Once you start the us vs them debate, you cannot bring a community together. I don’t think tha La Raza or MWB are the ones bringing the problems to your area. Everything started when the groups that arrived to your area did not assimilate by not sharing the good values that all of you see missing now.
TH…you gotta love this one: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003806319_immig26.html
“We’re training the children now to become activists,” said Mariano Espinoza, director of the Minnesota Immigrant Freedom Network.” They are going to take this movement to the next level.”
TH…NCLR is a MAJOR player in assisting illegals and non-assimilating individuals of hispanic/latino heritage. Go and read their materials. It is ALL Latino/Hispanic this and that. I could find nothing regarding how to “be an American” etc.
TH…why don’t you ask “You Don’t Speak for Me” about why the new wave of hispanics/latinos are not assimilating. This group consists of legal and assimilated latinos/hispanics. There is a reason why. Oh…and this organization is on our side.
Patriot,
Maybe you selected the wrong link because I don’t see any comment from the CEO here.
I don’t think that only when you have Latinos you can talk about diversity. That this groups see it that way doesn’t surprises me. The fact that other ethnocentric groups have done it in the past doesn’t make it right but it is not new. The only difference is that we are living in a time when the hispanic population is becoming the largest minority and some groups will lobby for representation everywhere. i think that is not right but it is expected. You see the influence now of Christian groups too. The only good population policy is the one that does not involve abortion ( I don’t support abortion, just one example on how groups tend to promote their own agenda).
TH…there is no link for a comment from Janet. I have seen her numerous times during interviews on tv. However, just browse around on the NCLR web site. Actually, what influence from Christian groups? What I have seen is the exact opposite (things that go against Christianity).
You Don’t Speak for Me doesn’t publish scientific information. As you have seen in my post, I agree with you whenever I am presented facts ( by the way you still owe me the source of the California warrants facts). Greg is particularly good at that.
The research that I read shows that the kids of the new generations are assimilating at a simmilar rate when compared to groups in the past. In Chicago you will see that.
Here the problem is that you see an influx of that new wave. It is way too early to measure how this group is assimilating. The problem is that you have to deal with them.
TH…actually times are different now. Seems that assimilation is deemed a “bad” thing in today’s liberal agenda. Multi-culturalism is the status quo. What the liberals don’t understand is multi-culturalism will balkanize our country and cause divisions.
TH…do you have eyes and ears? Where do you live? Maybe that is your problem. Facts can be witnessed using your eyes and ears.
TH…why don’t you contact You Don’t Speak for Me and then get back to us with your findings. Seems to me they would know a lot more than you would on this subject.
Actually, what influence from Christian groups?
One example, the Department of Justice recruiting mostly from Crhistian Law Schools. I want my perosecutors to be prepared to defend the law of the country. I am not concern about their views on homosexuality or abortion.
In fact many of the people who were sent to Iraq as administrators were asked before hiring them about their views on abortion. Isn’t that an effect of the ” Christhian” agenda on public affairs.
As far as I am concerned they have the right to do it. My point though is that there are as many groups out there as issues that people promote. La Raza is one of them.
I totally disagree with the idea of “educating” kids with just one ideology in mind (The Minessota case that you mentioned)
Hmmm…lets see
1. Spanish signs everywhere in our local area.
2. Hospitals need Spanish translators.
3. Local stores speak in Spanish over loud speakers.
4. Schools becoming bi-lingual (not in a language of a child’s choice, but Spanish).
Are these not facts TH?
TH…I would say La Raza is the biggest group as well as the Islamic groups coming around now. Christianity (if you haven’t noticed) has almost always been ridiculed by the liberals in the media. In fact, I cannot remember seeing a good article or a tv story covering Christianity.
Patriot.
Who do you think I am?
You are putting me in a category right away: that category of those who don’t know anything about this issue.
In fact part of the research that i conducted while living in Cicero had to do with the factors affecting assimilation. I participate in a lot of discussions regarding that issue. The findings of the most recent studies point out that successful assimilation is obtained when the new immigrants are exposed to values beyond their native group.
You don’t speak for Me publishes a set of principles that promote an ideal world with the right type of assimilation but my findings show (after visiting their website many times) that they have no clue on how to do it. The testimonials they have in their website are good anecdotes but that is not research.
Illegal immigration issues won’t be solved by talking about our experiences. A dialogue should be based on facts and not emotions.
Patriot, I am curious about You Don’t Speak for Me. I visited their several times and again today and from what I can tell, You Don’t Speak for Me, um, doesn’t speak for many. There is no indication of their group’s membership, they seem quite careful not to say, but everything hints at it being infinitesimal. If I had to bet I would say a few dozen would be an puffy overestimate, but of course I could be wrong. However, they have a Testimonials section with precisely three people, one of whom also doubles as an officer of the organization. That is the same number they had the first time I checked out their site, although the site has been updated in other ways. Their press releases about press conferences also suggest no groundswell of membership or numbers at all. Do you have any indication at all that the membership is beyond the low double digits? The high single digits?
PS: Above should read “I visited their SITE several times….”
Are these not facts TH?
Not facts about what we were talking about: the effects of ethnocentric groups.
You have a reality there that no research can deny. You are not proving that these groups have not existed in the past or that all the issues that you see in Manssas have a direct correlation with the efforts promoted by La Raza.
You need translators and signs in Spanish because of the influx of spanish-speaking people in your county and not because La Raza started a campaign to bring Spanish-Only to your area.
“TH…I would say La Raza is the biggest group as well as the Islamic groups coming around now”
I guess that all depends on where you live. I didn’t see the power of these groups in the Midwest. Here is where I have found a lot proselitism.
Anon…what do the numbers have to do with the argument? The fact is…we all are aware that assimilation is a major problem these days (and the unwillingness to assimilate is perpetuated by groups like NCLR, Mecha, as well as the Multiculturalism liberal crowds, etc.). Is this not the case? If you say it isn’t I will call the BS flag!
TH…your Chicago area has changed now hasn’t it? If you are referring to South Dakota, etc. yes…you will not find the liberal problems we face. Why you ask? Because they don’t tolerate liberal agendas. They don’t tolerate non-assimilation. They don’t tolerate anything that is un-American.
Anon,
I totally agree with you about this group. Anyone with a website is an expert in the issue they support.
Regions do make a huge difference. Lets look. In VA, inside of the beltway (aka Arlington, etc.) is heavy liberal. Therefore, they tolerate the illegal aliens and non-assimilation non-sense (we saw this the day that article came out in the paper about Greg). West of the beltway…you tend to find more conservative types that do not tolerate these things.
IMPORTANT MESSAGE: TO ANYONE WITH POLITICAL INFLUENCE. When are we going to “take back”, WHEATON, MD. (Amherst Ave.,UniversityBlvd, the entire Georgia Ave. area, from the Beltway (Wheaton exit) up to Connecticut Ave. In Wheaton itself: Fern Street, Wilkens Street, Aspen Hill, and the entire surrounding areas, avenues, and streets. Wheaton is a crime haven for illegals. The liquor store on University Blvd/Georgia Ave, caters to many unsavory and under age illegall aliens. Also, the Langley Park, Maryland, area which stretches from Prince Georges Countyto Colesville Road into Montgomery County, MD. via University Blvd.
Respectfully, Patriot, I would suggest that an organization that calls itself You Don’t Speak for Me, would be advised to demonstrate some sort of support beyond a dozen or two people (at most). Otherwise, they are clearly indicating that they don’t speak for much of anyone and, by extension, their opposition speaks for multitudes. In more than a year, they have amassed 3 testimonials, one of which is by a staff member. In any case, you have answered my question and I thank you. You have as little idea as I do if the organization exists beyond a couple of photos and computers.
“what do the numbers have to do with the argument?”
The fact that one group of Hispanics talk against immigration doesn’t mean that al, hispanics oppose this issue or favor it.
My daughter is thinking about a website about fossils but that doesn’t make it an expert.
TH…I have never stated that La Raza was the only reason for the problems we face in our local area. They certainly do not help eliminate the problem…they perpetuate it by assisting these people. Additionally, there are local groups like La Raza in our area that support the illegals. Greg has pointed them out in previous blogs. They are all tied together. Read their agendas and you will see that they promote the same things.
How do you plan to do it Lawrence?
It seems that you don’t have the power since you are asking for it and not organizing anything. I have to say that HSM organizes and work to do something. They don’s ask for political influence: they act because they see something wrong with their neighborhoods.
TH…are you telling me that a hispanic/latino that came here legally and assimilated isn’t an expert on this subject we are dealing with? They are of the same culture and can shed light on what the real truth is.
Sure MWB for excample. My point is that you don’t see these groups promoting Latino rights in places where Latinos have the political power (”My Chicago”).
Can you say that this type of agendas were not promoted in the past by Jews or Irish? (Again, see Chicago and the Irish Major Daley rings a bell?)
TH…who is lawrence and what are you talking about?
TH…you and I have gone in circles on this subject before. Do you agree that NCLR and multiculturalism do not help the situation? What about CASA in MD? Do they help the situation? These types of political powerhouses as well as the liberal agenda did not exist in the past. They are heavy hitters now days.
Well, I don’t see that you agree with R. Juarez? He is also a member of that community (one person) and know the culture.
The You don’t speak for Me is an expert but the other guy is just a communist.
Whre do you draw the line about who represents the community?
The La Raza people came here legally and disagree with you.
Alfred Rascon comes to my mind as one example of people who came here illegally but ended up winning the medal of honor. He is totally in favor of immigration and amnesty. He is one person who represents everything about assimilation but with a different view of what you believe.
Again, where do you draw the line?
TH…correction…the liberal agenda was not in the forefront of things like it is nowadays. It did exist in the past…just not mainstream like it is now.
“TH…who is lawrence and what are you talking about?”
I am referring to Lawrence Brescia who posted a message up there.
“IMPORTANT MESSAGE: TO ANYONE WITH POLITICAL INFLUENCE. When are we going to “take back”, WHEATON, MD. (Amherst Ave.,UniversityBlvd, the entire Georgia Ave. area, from the Beltway (Wheaton exit) up to Connecticut Ave. In Wheaton itself: Fern Street, Wilkens Street, Aspen Hill, and the entire surrounding areas, avenues, and streets. Wheaton is a crime haven for illegals. The liquor store on University Blvd/Georgia Ave, caters to many unsavory and under age illegall aliens. Also, the Langley Park, Maryland, area which stretches from Prince Georges Countyto Colesville Road into Montgomery County, MD. via University Blvd.”
I believe that illegal immigration is the biggest sleeper issue ever and will influence national, state, and local races in 2008. It’s only the politicians who don’t seem to get it.
Patriot, aren’t there a great many people of Latino heritage in the United States of first, second, and greater generations legally here who are sympathetic to illegal aliens? I am not talking about people who join activist organizations, I am talking about ordinary non-activist folk who are sympathetic because they have illegal aliens as friends and family members, or out of a sense of concern, however much you would feel that concern is unjustified. I am aware of the very long history of the Latino community in Chicago and environs that TH speaks of, do you really believe that most of that community, to take just one place, would embrace the views of You Don’t Speak For Me’s Colonel Rodriguez?
TH…what is your definition of assimilation?
Anon…why do you think we have a legal process for people to go through regarding immigration? Oh…you know there are legal citizens that aid and abet (which is illegal in and of itself).
Anon…if a large number of people (non-hispanic) went to say…Mexico and demanded that they change their culture (to include speaking English vice Spanish) to accomodate them….what do you think the response would be from the hispanic/latino citizenry?
“This outrageous behavior from Republicans and Democrats alike who are agitating for amnesty for illegal aliens is not going to be forgotten in the next Congressional elections.”
So who is going to run against do-nothing Frank Wolf in the 2009 Republican primary? I want to start donating to that person’s campaign now.
I think Patriot that we disagree about the origin of the problem and the way the illegal immigration issue should be solved. I truly believe that realistically you cannot get rid of all illegal aliens right away ( you still owe me a response about the facts about Esenhower too). I think that the immigration issue brings a lot of passion to the discussion table and that hot heads won’tsolve the problem (from either side).
Not even amnesty will solve the problem because this is an issue of assimilation anot just legal vs. illegal as it is framed.
There are no simplistic solutions to this problem.
The libral agenda have always existed if by that you mean supporting new immigrants (both legal and illegal).
@Lawrence Brescia
I feel for Marylanders fed up with illegal aliens. We all have an uphill battle, but your hill is more like a massive sand dune. Your state has pretty much rolled out a red carpet for them. A study of MD is a study of liberal politics gone crazy. I hate to say it, but I believe VA really benefits from having such a looney left neighbor. MD is like a criminal sponge.
@Maureen Wood
The most disburbing thing I saw in that article was the 20 middle easterners changing their arab names to latino names PER WEEK.
Patriot,
I define assimilation as the process of learning and understanding the values of a new culture. It means respect of those values and understanding of the factors that will bring you success in that new culture.
Assimilation is not the same thing as becoming a homogeneous group. It is about being able to function properly in that new society.
Here is a good quote from Ruben Rumbaut, a real expert on the topic of assimilation:
“If assimilation is a learning process, it involves learning good things and bad things,” said Ruben G. Rumbaut, a sociology professor at Michigan State University. “It doesn’t always lead to something better.”
There is nothinkg liberal or conservative about assimilation but depending on the way you do it the results could be positive or really bad.
Rumbaut says:
“At work, not only in Omaha but in immigrant communities across the country, is a process often referred to as “segmented” assimilation, in which immigrants follow different paths to incorporation in U.S. society. These range from the classic American ideal of blending into the vast middle class, to a “downward assimilation” into an adversarial underclass, to a buffered integration into “immigrant enclaves.” Sometimes, members of the same family end up taking sharply divergent paths, especially children and their parents. ”
I think that successful assimilation doesn’t come naturally and we will need to expand our discussion to come with the right solutions.
Patriot, I don’t see that the 300 million, give or take, English speakers in this country are facing demands that they change their culture or abandon English for Spanish. I see some government services offered in Spanish at times as an alternative, but not supplanting English. I see companies working to their own profit and benefit by including a Spanish option on their phone services or Spanish in their product instructions, etc. But maybe you have a different experience. So tell me, this week or last week, did you find yourself forced to speak Spanish instead of English and to start cooking molés, arroz pollo, tamales, etc. and listening to corridos by the eight men of Los Huracanes Del Norte or a similar band? If you did, my sympathies, or should I say, mis condolencias.
Many people on this blog bring up real problems such as unsafe, overcrowded housing, gang activity, etc. etc. The list is long. While they may at times exaggerate or mistate those problems in some way, the problems are real and need to be dealt with. But the notion that here, in Northern Virginia, there is a true threat of linguistic and cultural colonization so that English speakers will be forced to abandon their own culture seems to be as remote as Manassas is to Chiapas.
TH…I don’t owe you anything. There is plenty of information out there. As far as I see it:
1. The large influx of illegal aliens is due to lack of enforcing our existing laws and big businesses getting away with hiring them.
2. Assimilation is definitely a big problem (not only due to the large numbers of illegals that have gone unchecked, but also to the liberal driven multiculturalism movement that is underway and groups like NCLR, CASA, etc. that aid and abet.
3. Solution…enforce our existing laws, cut all benefits from illegals and anchor babies, and shut down businesses that hire illegal aliens. Attrition is the solution. Once work is gone benefits are gone…people will leave themselves.
“Anon…if a large number of people (non-hispanic) went to say…Mexico and demanded that they change their culture (to include speaking English vice Spanish) to accomodate them….what do you think the response would be from the hispanic/latino citizenry?”
Mexico is very clear about their views on foreigners: Mexico is for the Mexicans.
The fact that many Mexicans(Salvadorans, Guatemalans, Nicaraguans, Polish, Irish as well) are demanding rights here doesn’t change the reality you have.
They are here and not in Mexico. It is our problem now. What they think in Mexico does not justify or should guide our approach to solve this issue. Why? Because Presidents Calderon or Saca won’t come here to fix our problems.
TH…you and I both know…that is a cop out answer you gave!
TH…so let me get this straight…it is okay for the citizenry of Mexico to protect their culture but it is not okay for us to? RIDICULOUS AND YOU KNOW IT!
Anon…what part of VA do you live in?
“TH…I don’t owe you anything”
With all respect Patriot, you were the one who “demanded” everybody to stoip posting in one of our discussion until I had an answer to your question. I responded.
Despite the fact that we agree in certain issues, You don’t respond with facts when questioned and asked for real facts. You are the one who start the discussion about Eisenhower and then when you are prved wrong or asked more information, you leave the discussion.
You haven’t responded to anon yet about You don’t Speak for Me.
You responded with more questions.
I try to respond to your questions without calling you names. You have to agree that I don’t call you racist and that I agree with people providing facts. See my responses to Greg about things that I didn’t have enough information about.
Your solutions such as attrition by enforcement are unrealistic. How many times I have quoted what ICE said about catching illegal aliens: it cost $10,000. Do you want to go that way? It can be done but it will cost a lot of money.
You see you are giving americanm kids names:Anchor babies. You have already put some of your own into a category. It is a fact that you can only bring to this country your parents if you are 21-years old. Then if you have been here illegally you cannot do it unless you go back to your country for at least 12 years and then you start the process. So if an illegal alien decides to have baby here it will take 33 years until an application can be started.
Liberal agendas haven’t caused any of the assimilation problems. I would recommend you to read Portes to be more informed on this issue.
“TH…I don’t owe you anything. There is plenty of information out there. As far as I see it:
1. The large influx of illegal aliens is due to lack of enforcing our existing laws and big businesses getting away with hiring them.
2. Assimilation is definitely a big problem (not only due to the large numbers of illegals that have gone unchecked, but also to the liberal driven multiculturalism movement that is underway and groups like NCLR, CASA, etc. that aid and abet.
3. Solution…enforce our existing laws, cut all benefits from illegals and anchor babies, and shut down businesses that hire illegal aliens. Attrition is the solution. Once work is gone benefits are gone…people will leave themselves.”
This may start happening sooner rather than later:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/08/news/economy/illegal_immigrants.reut/index.htm?postversion=2007080812
We shall see whether it is a phase or a change in policy…
Mexico is actually a more diverse culture ethnically then one might imagine. Beyond the mestizo of indigenous, Spanish, and black from the colonial era, there have been substantial migrations from other places, like the Arab world. Unless you think Hayek, as in Salma Hayek, is a Spanish name. The Lebanese alone are a majority minority population.
PS. I meant major minority population. Not majority minority.
Ohh btw, Bornhere aka Anon. Welcome back!
“TH…so let me get this straight…it is okay for the citizenry of Mexico to protect their culture but it is not okay for us to? RIDICULOUS AND YOU KNOW IT!”
In fact if you read what I said I meant the opposite. The fact that Mexico opposes immigration doesn’t support your point at all.
I was trying to say that only americans can solve this problem and that you don’t need to resort to what other governments do to justify your position. Americans should stand to protect their culture
Here’s a good one! These illegal’s are on strike because, this is great, they are going to be fired if they can’t come up with PROPER documentation! Just when you think you have seen and heard everything, something new comes out that just boggles the mind!
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=30&ItemID=13474
I guess assimilation is really when all Americans celebrate St. Patricks Day.
I’ll drink to that.
http://www.englishfirst.org/elcenezo/elcenezoreuters81699.htm
Coming to towns across America!
Dolph…that is a holiday not everyday!
“that is a cop out answer you gave”
Patriot,
the next time you ask me for my point of view and I that perspective disagrees with what you think I will do the same thing you do: Ignore the question, call the other person a name, or just dissapear from the blog.
If I am not right about that how come that you haven’t suppiorted your claim that Eisenhower got rid of 3 million illegal aliens?
People showed you the facts that it was just a third of that. Rather than accepting the facts you just dissapeared. In this discussion you are calling me names or just saying that the onformation is out there.
I didn’t say that when you asked about immigration and what I believe about assimilation.
“I guess assimilation is really when all Americans celebrate St. Patricks Day.”
Or get drunk celebrating Cinco de Mayo with Coronas!
I am curious why nobody here today is chortling (thank you Carroll) over the planned SS # no-match crackdown reported just today.
Maybe I just missed the chortling.
TH…my point is supported! The hispanic/latinos seem to think it is perfectly fine for them not to have to accomodate us. However, if we chose not to change our ways (the American culture) to accomodate them that is a problem.
Surely TH, there is room for both Coronas and Guinness. Let’s be ecumenical here. One could alternate and maybe throw in a Stella Artois from time to time to celebrate Belgian bilingualism.
Anon…did you know that a German developed Coronas?
There is room for everyone to enjoy their culture. However, we all need to adopt the American culture and English (as the common denominator).
Furthermore, we must crack down on the illegals and those that aid and abet.
Your post proves my point Patriot, The issue you are facing is not just Legal vs. Illegal.
How do you define american culture?
No soccer just Super Bowl?
English only soap operas?
Ugly Betty rather than Betty la Fea?
To succeed in this country you need to know the culture but you won’t get that from illegal aliens unless you educate them or get rid of them. I think the first one is cheaper
“Anon…did you know that a German developed Coronas?”
and a Mexican Tacos?
TH…who will be paying for this bi-lingual “education”? Additionally, shall we make a mockery of our laws? Furthermore, more illegals will flood our country if we make it easy on them.
TH…if they want things like they are at “home”, why do they not fix up their home?
Patriot, no I didn’t know that about Coronas, but that just makes my point. Culltural diversity is tasty whether in Mexico or the US. And while English is the overwhelming language in this country, I would really like for you to point out what American culture is given the fact of the nation including every ethnicity on the planet. Or do you think we should ban St. Patrick’s Day and Knights of Columbus parades, processions through Little Italy, Portugal days in New Bedford, Polish polka parties at Blob’s Park, etc. etc. You still haven’t told me about your time tied down and forced to speak Spanish and cook molé. How did it come out?
Oops! TH, I am sorry. You are the one with the Corono info. My eyes are failing me. Still tasty.
Isnt a mockery of our laws that Nicole Ritchie just got 4 days in jail after DUI and driving in the wrong way of the hughway?
Paris enjoying a vacation in jail?
Scooter Libby pardoned?
Clinton not “having” with Monica?
Regardless of what you think about this incident, our laws are not in that sacred place that people don’t dare to touch.
And tell me how do you pay for getting rid of the immigrants? Education or enforcing the law will cost you something. If you can live with that, fine with me.
Anon aka BH: I already chortled on the SS # illegal crackdown in my 1:51 post.
TH,
Your 12:27 posting makes a lot of sense in general, especially as it relates to American values.
First generation immigrants rarely assimilate fully. Often they don’t learn the language. I don’t care which immigrant group you are speaking of. It is usually the kids who really become Americans. It takes time.
I think all of us would be much more receptive if immigration were more controlled. In the first place, there would be almost no discussion of legal vs illegal were the situation under control. Secondly, it is easier to accommodate the incoming population, regardless of where they come from, if there is a trickle rather than opening the Hoover Dam.
Anon, did you not see the article I posted about the Texas town? Hmmm….this seems to be a trend around the country. Assimilation into the common American culture and language (of English) is important for us to not become balkanized. It does not mean you cannot enjoy the foods, music, holidays, etc. Public business and government should be in English.
“TH…if they want things like they are at “home”, why do they not fix up their home?”
They don’t have those things at home. Otherwise they would have stayed there.
The fact is that they are here and we have to deal with it. I mean by that organizing the community to do something that your own values tell you to do. Nothing racists or unamerican about that i reaaly believe that but whatever you decide to do will bring positive and negative things to the country.
Dolph….you stated things nice and clear! We have a hoover dam situation right now and it is not helping things.
I think we should have a thread about the Arabs, Christian, Druze, Muslim, who, for generations since the 19th century, have immigrated all over Latin America, often to be called Turcos unfortunately but to be elected president on occasion (see Carlos Menem). It’s why you can get some really great humous from BA to Rio to Mexico City. More multicultural tastiness. Patriot, what is it that you eat anyway? I want to know this American culture you speak of in terms of food. Do you eat only corn and fry bread?
TH, when you say government should be in English. Do you mean no interpreters in courts as well?
Ok…enough. That was for Patriot. Back to work. I am clearly making too many mistakes.
TH…how do you suppose they can institute change in their country? By standing up to corruption. That’s how! Maybe they don’t want to? Maybe they know a good deal when they see one (benefits at the expense of others?).
Dolph,
I think the key issue about immigration has to do with ways to control it. The economy we have built promotes this thirt for cheap labor. I have to agree that some of the illegal aliens come here and abuse the system but also some of them came here because of the job opportunities.
We need to THINK how we want to address all these issues. One soultion won’t solve everything.
“Dolph….you stated things nice and clear! We have a hoover dam situation right now and it is not helping things.”
You see Patriot, we agree on something
Anon…you must live in Arlington???
TH…yes we have.
“TH, when you say government should be in English. Do you mean no interpreters in courts as well?”
We have a reality and we need to have those services. what I meant was that successful assimiliation implies that you learn the language of the new society. There are more opportunities for those who master the new country language. Even if you keep watching Telemundo at home, you have to speak English outside.
TH…the solution is easier than everyone makes it out to be.
1. Shut down the businesses that hire illegal aliens. What is so hard about this?
2. Cut the social benefits from illegal aliens and anchor babies (welfare, foodstamps, free medical, subsidized housing, etc.). To get these things, you must provide proof of legality. What is so hard about this?
3. Enforce the existing immigration laws.
TH…you are correct! However, if businesses and government continue to move to bi-lingual practices, there is no incentive to assimilate.
I agree that employers should be held accountable. More shopuld be done about that. in fact I think that should be the main focus of the battles against illegal immigration.
Tecnically there are no benefits for illegal aliens. We need to figure out a way address the problems of health insurance for all americans first. American babies regardless the status of their parents have the same rights that any other citizen. Not having those rights will create problems with assimilation.
The current immigration laws are a joke and we need to have a realistic approach to an economic reality (scientist shouldn’t have a hard time when applying for visas). What do you do with the illegal aliens here? I don’t think that people have though about the consequences of either sending them back or giving them amnesty
TH…anchor babies should have NO rights. If the parents are illegal so are they! What do you mean no benefits? The illegals use forged documentation and stolen social security numbers to get benefits!
TH…as far as sending them back…what is the problem? Our economy will be just fine. The businesses that cry are not passing the cost savings of so-called cheap labor to consumers! Funny thing is…I have seen the labor costs that construction companies wanted to charge and the numbers were ridiculous! $100 per hour? That is certainly not what they are paying the local help now are they?
See… this is why the MJM and the pro-illegal crowds INSIST on calling illegal aliens illegal immigrants. So the pro’s can draw the anti’s into assinine arguments about immagration. I’d be willing to bet the farm that nobody on this board is anti-immagration. So why the discussion about the pros and cons of immigration?
Assimilation takes DECADES/GENERATIONS and is a slow and tender process. That’s part of the reason why there’s immigration laws - so communities have time to absorb and assimilate. The MELTING pot was the perfect analogy. What’s going on now is a MASSIVE influx of illegal aliens. No longer a melting pot, but a pressure cooker. We, as a community, can’t handle it. It’s not good for racial or cultural relations. It’s too much too quick. Has nothing to do with racism or tolerance. It’s human nature. We all distrust what we are unfamiliar with. This applies to ALL races and cultures. In small bites, we can digest and adjust but in HUGE doses it’s too much to handle. In small bites, we can taste and pick things we enjoy and change our diet accordingly. THAT is assimilation.
“It’s human nature”
You said it and summarize it nicely Mando
Patriot,
You are for the law, so you have to recognize that these babies are americans. Would you go as far as denying rights to the kid of an Afrincan American crack addict? they are a burden to this society too. What the parents do shouldn’t affect the kids if they were born here. That is the law! We should stop the influx of illegal aliens though.
When I was in Cicero, IL, I worked for the local community college. 85% of the kids were second generation immigrants, mostly from Mexico. The majority didn’t apply for Financial aid because they though it was form of welfare. These are facts and not jus anecdotes.
I totally agree that some people use fake documentation to get things they are not entitled too but I haven’t seen a fact documenting that. Getting free services at a hospital, I have seen that and some of the numbers.
It’s time the Supreme Court revisited the birthright citizenship clause of the 14th amendment. In 1895, the case of Wong Ark was the last time the Supreme Court ruled on this clause - he was deemed a citizen only because his parents were legal residents not illegal aliens. Congress needs to be proactive and require the National Health Vital records agency to require birth certificates to state the Mother and Fathers citizenship status. In any case, it was never the intent of the 14th amendment to grant citizenship to illegal aliens.
No that was not the intent of the 14th amendment. It was to protect the rights of those who were born in this country. The legal warranty is known as jus soli and comes from the English Common Law. So it is a little older than what we thought.
One Congressman who appreciates the current climate of the electorate is Rep Paul Kanjorski (D-Pa) who recently declared that we’re not just living through a seemingly endless era when people lack confidence in the performance of the government. “No,” he said, “we’re on the brink of civil war. I’m in fear for the survival of the republic. People want to get their deer rifles out and go to the barricades. I haven’t seen any barricades lately, but maybe I’m just not looking hard enough.”
Frank Wolf should take note.
It is sad that a congressman is promoting to get your rifles out. I understand the passion the this issue bring but not using reason won’t take you that far. Defend your country is reasonable, but using guns to do it is not only an extremist solution but irresponsible.
I come to this blog not only to understand better this issue but also to promote the use of your brain to address the issue. Sure, this issue hits you firstin the gut but folks you are smarter than what this guy is proposing.
ANON said on 8 Aug 2007 at 1:40 pm….” I don’t see that the 300 million, give or take, English speakers in this country are facing demands that they change their culture or abandon English for Spanish.”
ANON- Where exactly do you live? When I go into a store in America I have a right to be understood. I have a right to have someone take my order without screwing it up, because they don’t understand. I think it is RUDE when employee’s are waiting on you and speaking to each other in a different language. This is America in case you didn’t know.
Had to Say, I think there is a difference between your experiencing frustration in some stores because someone doesn’t understand you, or you don’t understand them, or they are chatting to their co-workers in another language, and what Patriot described as all of us native English speakers being forced to abandon our language and culture. I don’t see that happening. I don’t see it even on the path to happening.
Many mornings I go to a store in downtown DC for a bagel before work. It’s owned by Koreans, and has Koreans and Latinos working there. Almost nobody’s English is 100%, but everyone is friendly and that helps in being understood, both ways, friendliness. The Koreans speak Korean with one another, the Latinos speak Spanish with one another, and then they use English with each other and with the customers. I sort of pick up on the Spanish, I haven’t a clue about the Korean, I don’t mind repeating something if it is necessarily, though it rarely is. None of this bothers me. It’s normal. I even like it. It wouldn’t have bothered me 100 years ago on New York’s Lower East Side either when you would have more Yiddish than English. We all have different things that bother us I guess. I do know “this is America” as you say, and for me, this IS America, in history and now.
People love anecdotes here. Well I have one from the other night. A bus full of Latinos just off work late at night from restaurants, bone tired, it’s hot. A very large white American man 45-50 enters with a cane. All the front area of the bus has the seats placed up. There must have been a wheelchair rider. As soon as he sees the man, a Latino guy, maybe 25 at the most, jumps up and starts lowering the priority seats so the guy can sit down. White man sits down. Not a single thank you.
It bothered me, but I won’t make a big deal about because rudeness has no color or language does it?
I do not see any were in the constitution that you must speak english. I am quit shure you do not have to speak at all. You just can’t get a job or have friends . That is your choice my friends. It is called liberty. As far as I can see there is no minister of culture in our goverment to defend a culture. What if ther were and you didn’t like not driving on sunday. How about the left hand handshake rule? As far as I am concerned people, I DO NOT HAVE TO ASSIMILATE with anyone that I don’t want to. My culture, the founding fathers culture, was rule of LAW, and finally, RESPECT for the constitution, i.e., the bill of rights. THAT my friends is american culture as it was intended. You can howl jesus all you want to on your accord, but do not debunk scientific fact with fork tung and mystisism at a public school or govement function. I am quit shure you do not want hindu theology shoved down your kids throat so dont shove your christian crap down my kids. Some christian, remember as your savior said “these are all my children” HYPOCRIT!!!!!
Mr. Heinzinger, reading your post, I feel you are very lucky that there is no place in the Constitution that requires you to speak or write English.
About your comment on CNN:
“It’s the folks who come in and try to maintain the culture of the country they came from,” Letiecq said. “They don’t seem to embrace the American culture, the English language, the social norms of American culture.”
You have a pretty narrow view of the american culture and social norms from your town in Virginia. There is no one true american culture because not all U.S. citizens are born to the culture you talk about. Some of the more prominent groups are:
Native Hawaiians
Native Americans
Puerto Ricans
Virgin Islanders
Just to name a few. I have no problem with you being against illegal immigration, but that comment was clearly racist and has nothing to do with illegal immigration.