"We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge" - Barack Obama (aka President Malaise)
Overwhelming Majorities Favor Improved Enforcement
By Greg L | 13 August 2007 | National Politics, Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics | 40 Comments
Via Virginia Virtucon we see that almost four out of five Americans believe that additional controls on illegal aliens are necessary in a Rasmussen Reports survey. Additionally, a strong majority of Americans continue to believe that current border enforcement efforts are insufficient and must be improved. From the report:
Sixty-eight percent (68%) of Americans believe it is Very Important to improve border enforcement and reduce illegal immigration. That view is held by 80% of Republicans, 62% of Democrats, and 64% of those not affiliated with either major political party. Those figures are little changed from earlier in the year.
This isn’t a Republican issue, as strong majorities of both Republicans and Democrats, as well as independents, are demanding that the federal government regain control over our borders, reduce the number of illegal aliens in our country, and restore the rule of law. For some bizarre reason however, some prominent Democrats are rejecting the calls not only from their constituents, but from significant majorities within their party to do these very things.
A case in point is House Democratic Caucus Leader Brian Moran, who will not join in calling on Virginia Governor Tim Kaine to enroll Virginia in the Section 287(g) program which would allow state police and corrections officers to process for deportation criminal illegal aliens who have been incarcerated in our state prison system. These illegal aliens who have been convicted of felonies and serious misdemeanors may otherwise be released back onto our streets unless agents of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency manage to process these individuals on their own, which doesn’t happen in a significant number of these cases. Democrats are wondering why their party leaders and highest elected official in the state are choosing not to deport criminal illegal aliens as the electorate begins to associate Democratic Party leadership with the open borders crowd.
Keep pandering to that portion of the 12% of Americans who believe the government is doing enough to control illegal aliens and secure our borders, and Republicans, which are responding better to this broad public sentiment that demands better enforcement, will have an opportunity to utterly steamroll state and national elections. This issue is a bus that elected officials can either get on and ride, or be thrown under.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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alot of them are on the short bus, mr. ted kennedy for one
Here is an excerpt from a recent Rasmussen Report on why the Senate immigration bill failed. You can read the entire report at: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/why_the_senate_immigration_bill_failed
“… The immigration bill failed because a broad cross-section of the American people are opposed to it. Republicans, Democrats, and unaffiliated voters are opposed. Men are opposed. So are women. The young don’t like it; neither do the no-longer-young. White Americans are opposed. Americans of color are opposed …
“The last Rasmussen Reports national telephone poll found that just 23% of Americans supported the legislation …
“In the minds of most Americans, immigration reform means reducing illegal immigration and enforcing the border. Only 16% believed the Senate bill would accomplish that goal.
“… From the beginning, the Senate approached the issue with top priority of addressing the legal status of the illegal aliens. They addressed concerns about guest-worker programs and questions about whether family or skill level should be more important when determining who could enter the country.
“All of those are important questions, but they are not the most important question. Rasmussen Reports polling found that 72% of Americans believe its Very Important to reduce illegal immigration and enforce the borders. Just 29% said it was Very Important to legalize the status of those illegally living in the country today.
“… We live in a world where most Americans believe that most Members of Congress will sell their vote for cash or a campaign contribution. Only 16% believe the legislators’ votes are not for sale. By a nearly 5-to-1 margin, voters believe that Members of Congress are more interested in their own careers and agenda rather than the public good.
“In that environment, the only way for political leaders to prove they are serious about enforcing the border and reducing illegal immigration will be to do it. That’s the next logical step in the immigration debate.
“… The United States is a nation of immigrants. It is also a nation of laws. Voters want to honor both aspects of the national heritage. And, like good parents trying to instill values in their children, voters want their elected representatives to do the same.”
So you see, I am not alone in my viewpoint. Secure our borders and enforce the laws that are already on the books to reduce illegal immigration — and reduce it to the point that it is virtually halted for good. Do that first. Then, and only then, will I and my fellow Americans are willing to hear your proposals for legalization process of illegals (some of them, not all). Then, and only then, will I and my fellow Americans be willing to hear your proposals for a limited guest worker program that does not threaten American wages and jobs that Americans most certainly WILL do.
Two articles from the Washington Times show that the rhetoric has increased in the political landscape for enforcing the law but is there any bite behind all that barking?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070812/NATION/108120043/1002
http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070811/NATION/108110049/1002
I like Feinstein’s response to cracking down on hiring illegal aliens:
***But Sen. Dianne Feinstein, California Democrat, described the reforms as “a Band-Aid that will not stop the looming crisis American agriculture will face this fall.” She said the crisis “is that crops will not be harvested.”
I suppose we’re all going to starve to death. I mean hell, we’re willing to spend $4/gallon for gas but a buck or two more for a pound of apples will force us to stop buying fruit?
With little enforcement you end up with situations like this:
THERMAL, Calif. — Life is harsh for the 4,000 migrant workers who live in the Desert Mobile Home Park, where hundreds of dilapidated dwellings sit along dirt streets. The 110-degree air is thick with large black flies and the stench of raw sewage. Wild dogs prowl the alleys.
But conditions could get even worse if the federal government follows through on its threat to close this site on a sun-baked Indian reservation because of rampant health and safety violations.
“Where are we going to go, where are they going to put us?” asked Angelina Cisneros, 59, who lives with her family of four in a crumbling sea-green trailer. “We don’t have any money.”
The fertile Coachella Valley is one of the nation’s richest farming regions and home to five-star tourist destinations such as Palm Springs. But the thousands of migrant workers who toil in the fields struggle to find housing. On annual wages of just $12,000, many families can afford only squalid homes.
Desert Mobile Home Park is unusual because it’s located on the Torres Martinez Indian Reservation - beyond the reach of state and local governments.
Thus far, the Bureau of Indian Affairs has not been able to provide any alternatives for residents, even as it prepares to ask a federal judge next month to order a phased closure of the park over four months.
The judge could agree or instead demand that the owner make repairs or put the park into federal receivership.
The bureau is working with county officials to find alternative housing - a daunting prospect in a region southeast of Los Angeles where demand quickly overwhelms the 200 or more affordable units that come on the market each year.
“There’s no easy answer, and I wish there was,” said James Fletcher, Southern California superintendent of the bureau. “Is it better for people to continue to live in those kinds of conditions? That’s the balance we have to strike.”
The migrant workers are essential to the farming economy, harvesting nearly $1 billion of table grapes, dates, chili peppers and other crops from the region’s heavily irrigated fields.
A number of agricultural areas across the country are facing similar problems. In Washington state, some migrants have lived in a tent camp for four years on commercial land near an airport. In North Carolina, the governor is considering a bill that would allow close monitoring of migrant housing conditions.
In California, farmworker advocates are appalled by the living conditions but caution that shutting down the trailer park will not help residents. They want the federal government to take over the site and make urgent repairs while working out a long-term closure plan.
“The focus should not be on closure but on rehabbing the park to address the most serious health and safety issues,” said Arturo Rodriguez, a staff attorney with California Rural Legal Assistance.
The conflict began in the late 1990s, when local officials began cracking down on illegal trailer parks hidden away on county land.
Harvey Duro, a member of the Torres Martinez Desert Cahuilla Indians, opened 40 acres of his land to the migrant workers who were being displaced.
With trailers in tow, the workers flocked to Duro’s land.
Conditions worsened until 2004. Federal officials ordered numerous repairs after the facility was cited by the Environmental Protection Agency and the Bureau of Indian Affairs for alleged clean-water violations, open sewage, illegal dumping and overcrowding.
Alan Singer, a spokesman for Duro, said the landlord has spent tens of thousands of dollars repairing the water system and eliminating hazardous conditions.
“If the park is shut down, it will be a total disaster,” Singer said. “They’ll live where they used to live, which is under trees and in cars because that’s the only place they have.”
Residents pay $275 a month to rent a space for a trailer. With utilities, they said, the monthly bill frequently tops $500, even though water and electricity service are often lost for days.
During peak season as many as 20 people live in some trailers at the park, located near a recently closed dump and an open-air wastewater treatment pond.
The latest federal inspection came last month, after a fire destroyed eight trailers. Fletcher, of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, said few improvements were found.
“You have to put in at least basic infrastructure - proper water, proper sewer, proper electrical - and he didn’t do any of those,” Fletcher said.
Singer said the Bureau of Indian Affairs has not shared the latest inspection report with Duro and accused the federal agency of trying to take over Indian lands in a “new-millenium land grab.”
Riverside County is considering several options for residents who could be displaced if the park is closed, including asking for temporary trailers from the Federal Emergency Management Agency and expanding a mobile home loan program that helps residents in unlawful camps secure replacement housing.
Still, local government would be overwhelmed if thousands of people became homeless during the next few months, said Denys Arcuri, a spokesman for county Supervisor Roy Wilson, whose district includes Coachella Valley.
“We just don’t happen to have 2,000 empty homes to put people in,” Arcuri said.
Re Anon’s post at 3:56 PM:
You can blame elected politicians from both parties for the situation described in your article. A sealed border and a guest worker program like other countries have would have avoided this problem. I was a guest worker in Saudi Arabia many years ago and my employer had to insure that I was housed and employed, and once my employment ended, had to insure my infidel ass was out of there sacred sand box. If those heathens can make a system work, so can we.
Sure. We could make it work in a hot minute if the President of the United States were not the duplicitous douchebag that he is.
Already we are hearing much anguish from agricultural producers about the new regulations preventing them from hiring the illegal immigrants needed to harvest crops.
You should know that ag producers NOW have access to unlimited foreign workers through the H-2A agricultural worker visa program. Ag producers have many complaints about this program and most do not use it. The biggest problem with the program is its requirements for certain wage levels, housing, transportation, etc. Nothing extreme. But using the legal H-2A program costs more than paying cash to illegal aliens so why use H-2A if you don’t have to.
Information about the H-2A program is on http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/taw.htm
If the agricultural workers living in the squalor described in the comment above were employed through H-2A, their employers would be required to provide better living conditions. The squalor is another result of our country not enforcing existing laws and regulations.
Another very interesting web site includes data on the Federal subsidies made every year to ag producers. (We’re talking billions here.)
http://farm.ewg.org/farm/
When an ag producer is quoted in the press with complaints about the immigration system and how hard the no-match regulations will be on him, go to this site for information on the amount of your tax dollars that the individual has received in farm subsidies over the years. (For fun, go to the site, click on the state of Virginia, and then search for payments going to producers in Prince William County.)
In the big agricultural states, many individuals on the list have received millions — with wives, brothers, cousins also receiving millions. Millions. Most eyepopping. One farming operation in Arizona has received a total of $11,299,928 over the past ten years. Another in California received $17,290,870. These guys must love their country when they receive those annual payments. They should support their country’s immigration laws. I have no sympathy.
Advocator
You are absolutely right. A sound guest worker program would be just fine. The problem is that in this country the guest worker program would become nothing more than an amnesty program masquerading as a guest worker program.
The enforcement of a guest worker program would necessitate a well organized immigration agency which could provide the needed structure for this plan. The problem is that Homeland Security has now slowed down even mildly efficient agencies like INS and has made even passport processing a failure. Who would we have at this point to enforce such a guest program?
Guest policy??
Most of the illegals here today entered with valid papers. Immigration legal or illegal is out of control. Check out NUMBERSUSA.com We are sinking.
This is everyone’s fault - Democrat and Repulican. The former with social policy and the latter with economic policy.
Time for a change - except who wants to be skewered by the liberal media which happens to be owned by the conservative right and offer up your family and friends to run for office?
We need a polarizing candidate from either party that will act independently and without a personal, financial or social agenda.
fed up,
Would you go for a program such as the one that the Salvadorans got?
They gey fingerprinted, pay taxes, and the government has to know where you are every time you renew your permit. The card is very secure and their records verified before they can get a driver’s license.
And why do Salvadorean have such an arrangement as opposed to all other countries? In addition, if this program was entirely successful, why do we have many Salvadoreans who come here illegally? The problem is not with the programs that work, it is with the laws that are not enforced. It seems quite unfair if one country has a worker program and another one does not.
HOwever, the problem that will remain with a guest worker program is that if the numbers are not limited to allow for proper growth and monitoring of the population and you still have huge numbers of illegals coming in, such a program is not a solution.
I can hear the answer: streamline the process, issue more worker visas etc. And what should we do with the 20 million that are already here? Does anyone really believe that they would go back to their country and get in line for a worker visa? And if the number is not limited, then how do we deal with the overpopulation?
Does the worker program address the issue of integration, learning English and generally allow the influx of “regulars” to be in harmony with American society?
The problem is that we are trying to close the gate when the cows have already left the farm. There are too many people who are here illegally and the consequences of this will be serious. An unlimited worker program will not solve the problem. A limited one will only encourage more people to break the law.
The truth is that employees should have quotas ahead of such worker programs so that Americans are not shut out of jobs. When the employee side of the equation is solved, the worker program can become a reality.
“In addition, if this program was entirely successful, why do we have many Salvadoreans who come here illegally?”
Because the program only benefited those who were here before 2001.
You are right about the issue legality doesn’t mean assimilation.
Anyone with ideas on how to address that issue?
It has never happened automatically with other immigrants.
Should we start with the second generation who are americans anyway?
TH
The problem is not about first generation vs second generation. The idea is that people who come here embrace the culture without reservations. At this point, if the hostility persists, there will be no incentive to assimilate. But how can you not be hostile to people who could threaten the wayour country is run, the very essence of it. People keep making reference to how earlier waves of immigrants have integrated. The thing that seems not to be factored in in this equation is the number of people that came then vs now. It is true that this is country of immigrants, but millions came during a very long period of time. What we are facing now is a demographic shift without precedent that has occurred in the blink of an eye. No country can support such an invasion, whether it is friendly or hostile.
But this is still the domain of people who should be here legally. Again, we are not dealing with just one problem, we are dealing with many problems. And only planning which takes into account what our society can and cannot support can solve at least the present problems. The solution is in numbers. Limit who can be hired, build appropriate housing, make employers pay part of their expenses and integrate their education. Let the burden be borne by those who benefit it and do it in a regulated, limited fashion which benefits the people who live here as well as those who do not.
But to be able to do all this we would have to turn back the clock, I’m afraid. We have already reached a critical point and the time for thinking about the welfare of those who are breaking the law cannot supersede the needs of those who are here legally. This is now not a question of wealth distribution and humane conditiions. The time now is for the restoration of a working order, of respect for the law that allows this country to regain control of its society before anger, division and resentment and lawlessness tear it completely apart.
It would all go away if we just started seriously punishing the employers…from the little guy who goes to the 7-11 to pic up some people to do some yard work…to the well heeled and politically well connected construction executives. Pierce the insulation surrounding the employers…focus your energies on bringing pain to their doorsteps…the illegals are just going to where the jobs are…
A pretty interesting poll. I guess they are other Americans besides those that live in Manassas that are fed up with illegals. Does that make them racist too?
COM
When people keep using the “You ar calling me racist” card then there is no discussion.
There are two good points made by fed up and CC, what do you think we need to do COM?
No one is calling racists anybody here.
The reason there are so many illegals is because there are so many criminal employers of illegals.
The reason there are so many criminal employers is because of their enablers in office.
Follow the money - arrest accordingly.
But that will take law enforcement not on the take.
Keep in mind - prohibition would have worked had it not been for corruption. We can never get laws enforced until the law enforcers start enforcing the law.
Notice how the tickets are being written, and the cases prosecuted with no problem to extract thousands from Virginia legal citizens over traffic violations - yet the illegal community gets a pass - again.
Its all about the money.
Much of the reasons el salvadorans are here and are allowed to be here is b/c our govt has been complicit in the civil wars in that country. Many come here to escape the civil wars in which the US has dirtied it’s hands in. There’s lots of amnesty avail for many of them provided by our govt. Who knows, 5 yrs from now the same may go for the Iraqis. Jordan is already screaming about the fact they are now being burdened by the refugees of the war the US created, and they want the US and Britian to step up and help them. Time will only tell at this point. Then of course we have to look at NAFTA and examine that debacle too. If people in Mexico and Central America could live well in their own countries they would have no need to immigrate here. I read in the Times this Sat. that the Bush admin is putting together a 500 million dollar package to aid Mexico with their fight against the drug cartels, especially now that they have infiltrated the city of Monterrey where many US companies have factories. 500 million and blackhawk helicopters??? We as country can afford this??? Face it we are the ATM of all countries…billions for a war in Iraq/Afganistan, millions for an aid package to Mexico, etc. You have to realize that many immigrants do not show up here b/c of employers but they do so because of our govt. and their policies. Then they are here, and then employers go…gee I can save a buck or two by employing Juan. Hell, even I’m guilty in the fact I’d rather pay Juan cash than do the job myself. Who am I to whine about food stamp fraud and education when I live in a country that can afford to send Mexico 500 million dollars?
One voice,
re: “Most of the illegals here today entered with valid papers.”
I am trying to understand your statement here. Will you please elaborate?
Thanks,
Dolph
ateacher
I know that Salvadoreans are being favored becuase of the contras. And that the Cubans are being favored because of the Bay of Pigs. That was a rethoridal question The problem is that we should not favor any one country and we should shart levying heavy fines against employers who hire illegals and who benefit solely from their presence. If we start making amends for all the countries where we have been, warred, interfered or overthrown, then half of the world should be here. We are not England. We have not profited from centuries of colonies whose populations we now must accept. Yes, we have made mistakes. This does not mean that we can allow so many people to run amok and lawless in our country.
This is a situation with a solution that no one wants to confront. The specter that the economy will be thrown into disarray if all the illegals are removed can be solved by assigning a limit to each industrial, manufacturing and agricultural sector which depends on immigration work, and to let those employees plan and provide for their stay. As far as the notion that we would pay more for food I can tell you that we will be paying much more for food becuase of the inflationary tendencies of the financial crisis currently under way than the replacement of illegals with legal workers. Did anyone notice a discount when illegal workers were hired? No. And the reason is simple: the employees have profited, handsomely from illegal workers and the present administration has profited handsomely from their lobbyist and special interest contributions during election and all the way along the political food chain. The people are not the beneficiaries. It’s the WalMart syndrome: Your admistration is telling you that illegal immigrants are keeping prices down, while the true cause of low pricing is low quality imports from China and other third world countries. The enormous cost of services used by illegal aliens far offsets the meager savings that we could have seen at the grocery store. In addition, most of our produce is now imported, thanks to Nafta and other agreements. So let’s get rid of the threats and confront the true villains in this equation: the employer.
I am attaching part of an article in today’s MJM, our favourite high end unbiased rag:
Local officials interviewed said ICE does not always respond in a timely fashion when jurisdictions report contact with illegal immigrants.
“We’ve picked up people and called ICE and told them that they were illegal, and they told us to turn them loose,” said Capt. Scott Moser of the Caroline County Sheriff’s Office.
Others have termed it “catch and release.”
In a recent presentation to Culpeper Town Council, Police Chief Scott Barlow said the federal resources are so limited that ICE typically responds only to illegal-immigration cases involving violent felons, what was described as the “worst of the worst.”
It was among the reasons the chief recommended that the town not partner with ICE to receive training, according to the Culpeper Star-Exponent.
I find the article interesting in that it exposes what this ICE partnership is all about. A trick and pony show. When I worked in drug enforcement, there was an expression that I like to remember: If you can pass the perp around long enough eventually someone is going to forget he is there. This is law enforcement by default. Let’s wait until the perp really screws up and then we’ll do something. For that and all good consideration, Newark is a case study.
At this point, it is really up to the individual townships to push for meaningful enforcement. To expect the federals to do their job would be blind folly. It has come down to what protest and action people can muster instead of any true effort from the agencies that are, by law, entrusted with enforcement.
Everything has a political implication when it comes to countries lobbying for their citizens in this country. The Salvadorans have troops in Iraq. They don’t fight but it helps with the image that we have a coalition against the war on terrorism. By the way the contras fought in Nicaragua and not in El Salvador but when the “Cold” war was fought in that area it was El salvador’s government who put the people to die there. I am not justifying the actual situation. I just think that countries have different ways of getting their debt paid.
Dolph,
“Most of the illegals here today entered with valid papers.”
About 40 to 50% of the illegal alien population in the US got here with a tourist visa and then it was easy to overstay.
I am very familiar with the situation in Central America and I know for a fact that they are trying to come to this country that way. You will see a change though in terms of the new wave of illegal immigrants. Because poor people cannot afford to get a regular visa and because of the increased security in the border, most of the new illegal immigrants are more educated. The middle class has almost dissapeared in Central America so most of those families are finding ways to come to work to this country.
I think that the famous wall in the border will deter poor people to come but othere will get here through legal means and then overstay.
I agree with fed up that we need to find the employer hiring the illegal aliens.
Good call CC
Illegals are here for one reason; money (to make it and take it). Thei result is a loss of GDP from the USA as illegals and others send it to their families at home. The Federal government passed laws in the 90s requiring employers to verify employees had a right to be here and to work here (I believe they are called I-9 forms). It is already a violation of Federal law to employ illegals, yet no-one is enforcing it.
I’m glad that HSM has sponsored a voluntary posting of businesses that only hire legal residents with a right to work, and plan on using this list as I do minor construction & mainetnance projects at home. I encourage otthers to do the same. We also need to fight to have our laws upheld. Put a few executives from landscaping, construction, food service and a few other businesses in jail for a week and I bet things change.
Thanks TH,
As I have often told you, I am really clueless about visas and what it actually takes to immigrate legally. Maybe I am the only one here who doesn’t know the details. Somehow I don’t think that is the case though.
It just seemed incongruous for illegals to have come here with valid papers. Thanks for explaining. Does that make one ’semi-illegal?’
Semi-boneless?…either it has a bone or it doesn’t!!
dolph,
if you had a valid visa to come in, would you have to jump the fence and walk 50 miles through the desert?
Considering the limited number of visas that are issued each year and the millions that cross the border, I think the legal visa overstay is a bogus theory. Only a limited number of people c ome in legally and overstay.
TH,
In general the supporters of illegals will call those that are against illegals racisits, bigots etc. They do that in order to shut down the debate over the issue because they realize how weak their position really is. That not only happens here on this blog but on National TV shows, talk radio and newpapers.
Fed up,
Perhaps One Voice will come back and elaborate.
I do not believe those from Central America gain entrance by crossing the desert. That would be one LONG walk.
One the other hand, I don’t believe it is difficult to get a tourist visa, regardless of what country you live in.
I was basically questioning how you could be considered illegal if you have valid papers. TH gave one explanaton. That seemed to make sense to me.
——————————————————————————–
My guess is that in the very near future we will all be bemoaning why so many Iraqis are being given humanitarian relief and assylum in the United States. History DOES repeat itself.
Fed Up,
Thye numbers that I quoted come for a study conducted by the Pew Center. Given that they might be biased, I checked the data from the State Department:
http://travel.state.gov/pdf/FY06AnnualReportTableXVIII.pdf
More than 5 million visas were granted in 2006 alone.
In 2006, for North America (which includes the Caribean, Central America and 5K visas for Canada) the total was 1,345,083 and for South America 867,913.
These numbers are pretty much average for each year so it doesn’t suprises me that people actually overstay after the six month granted with your tourist visa.
Just for Salvadoreans, the numbers for the las nine years are close to half a million.
The Migratiuon Policy Institute estimates that approximately 500,000 illegal aliens stay in the country. With more than 5 million visas granted a year, it is not a surprise that 40% is a good estimate for those illegal aliens who overstay their visas.
Dolph
Let me tell you a little story.
for twenty years Italians have been able to come to this country without a visa because of their country’s status and the EU formation. Since the last 12 months, every Italian has to obtain a visa. I can assure you that getting a tourist visa is not so easy.
I also have a friend from south american whose parents could not come although they are well to do. The reason for their coming was the birth of their grandson. They have not been able to obtain a visa for the last twelve months. Their son is an american citizen.
in addition, please refer to interception numbers from the Border Patrol and the El Paso combined drug task force estimates of the people that traverse the border each year and you will see that the majority of illegal immigrants are not coming here with tourist visas.
Although the number of tourist visas increases each year, most of those are for legitimate tourism. almost 28 million people visit the US each year for tourism and business. I think that you are incorrectly assuming that all tourist visas granted to the americas and the rest of the world are for people that stay illegally. Only a fraction of people who obtain those visas overstay their visas.
And Dolph, I hate to tell you, but yes, people all the way from South America do travel all the way up from Peru, Bolivia and then cross at the border. They don’t walk from Bolivia.
Also realize that even with your number of 800,000 visas granted to the americas, that does not come close to the total number of illegal aliens that have entered in the past 7 years.
Fed up,
Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that people who come from South America do not cross at the border. I also never said they walked from Bolivia. How did you possibly read that into what I said?
I really believe we are having a communication issue here.
I also never spit out any numbers. I asked a contributor to elaborate on a statement they made.
Fed up, The numbers make a little sense. 500,000 illegal aliens evry year. 2 million tourist visas a year from south america. If 10% of them stay, that is about 40% of the 500,000.
Dolph,
Don’t worry about fed up logic. She doesn’t seem to read the whole message, just react to a couple of lines or names. I have never called her racist but she plays that card with me often(You are calling me racist)
TH
I’m a “she” now. That must make everything I say illogical automatically. OOOOh. I am really worried now. Just get your numbers straight, and get them from official sources. In addition, please realize that reality and government numbers don’t always jive. Ask the patrol on the ground to tell you what the numbers are.
Keep ‘em coming, boys.
Fed up,
I linked my numbers to the State Department. What is official for you: The story of a south amnerican friend whose family couldn’t come to the country.
In your case you always fail to present facts:
Contras in El Salvador for Example.
I thought you were a She because you mentioned that your husband was not allowed to have dinner in a restaurant in Miami. My mistake then.
It’s alright TH. I just think that the fact I am a she makes it easier to dispute me in your mind. I rather enjoy that. You know what is official? reality.
I rely on data that I myself had to compile for three different government agencies, two american and one italian. It may be true that some of it may be outdated. I have not worked within that frame for a couple of years. In addition, I have been directly involved with drug enforcement in Miami for a number of years. I don’t think that there is any dispute as to who the current drug lords are and who brings the drugs in and where they come in from. Our apologists and humanists need to get off their cloud and join those who want the law enforced as it should, before the problems of illegal immigration overwhelm us. I must say, we are very close to that point already. It is very easy for those who have not been touched or victimized by illegal criminals to feel that they should be welcoming and compassionate. I must tell you that these criminals do not show an ounce of compassion to anyone.
I just don’t think that the numbers published reflect the truth. As far as the 10-12 million immigrants that have come in the last 10 years, you can multiply that by 5. Then you probably will be closer to what the reality is at this moment. Forget census numbers, they are outdated.
Only in your mind fed up!!! In that mind I am mysogonist, apologist, and someone who resorts to call people names such as racist to avoid responding to questions.
Your background in in law enforcement and that gives you some authority to create forecasts and complex statistical analyses that not even the experts can run?
Whre are your numbers then?
Give me the source I am will check that methodology. The difference between the two of us is that I do work with numbers. That is how I have eraned my living for many years.
I meant misogynist…so I cannot be called something else for the mistake
TH
If you were not thinking of me as a woman you would have simply called me by fed up. I don’t see you referring to other people as she or he
Good try though. Had to look that one up, uh? Misos Gyne, greek for female hater. I still think you got it wrong. You are not a misogynist, that would mean that you hate women. You mean chauvinist, one who thinks that females are inferior or whose intelligence is inferior.
As far as number crunching, who are you crunching them for? any federal agency we should know about?
I referred to you as she because of what I thought I have read, not because any hidden agenda or superiority complex. We disagree on a lot of issues but my statements are based on what people write and react. If I offended you, I am sorry. Many people have called me she and in fact I am a He.
I just do the Academic data crunching(which is worse I think because we see “objects” and we forget the people).