Latino Clergy Threatens Lawsuit
By Greg L | 21 August 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 58 Comments
Now the National Coalition of Latino Clergy has announced it’s intention to sue Prince William County over the resolution regarding illegal aliens adopted on July 10th. We heard this same tripe before from PRLDEF, which failed to live up to it’s threats, probably because no one could demonstrate that they’ve been harmed by the resolution, and they lacked standing to bring suit. After County Chairman Corey Stewart accurately observed that PRLDEF was “blowing smoke“, these folks, using whatever legal education they received in seminary, and in direct contravention to Romans 13:1-3, have decided it’s their turn to look like idiots.
Bring it on, I say. If anyone thinks they can successfully file suit because in their crystal ball, they see some unlawful activity which hasn’t yet actually occurred, I would really like to see that. It sounds kinda science fiction-like.
Haven’t these folks got some souls to save somewhere?
For more on this, the Washington Post had an article last Sunday. Nice to see the MJM on the ball here with the news.
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Good article. Thanks Greg.
Any update on All Saints intentions / position?
All non-profits /churches should be checked for mis use of funds. Our congress need to represent us ,however it is not following through so groups like FAIR
Who is the National Coalition of Latino Clergy? Never heard of them and the website is less than informative. The main home page is in Spanish. You can also click to have the message in Spanish. Go figure. You have a choice: Spanish or Spanish.
The Virginia contact seems to be some consulting firm. Am I missing something here? If they have enough money to waste on a frivilous lawsuit, perhaps they should redirect some of that cash into improving their website.
If Jesus were alive today and living in Prince William county, would he favor deporting illegal aliens? Would he support this movement?
WWJD,
Why dont you ask Him? You apparently are the one manning that hotline. I anxiously await the answer.
I’m asking all of you…
WWJD,
Jesus would forgive them for their sins but then tell them to go home and come back legally (because that would be the right thing to do). He would not want them to continue breaking the law.
LOL, OK “Patriot”, that was a good one. I needed a good laugh. The only sad thing is that you actually believe your answer. Have a nice day.
Hey, WWJD, you might want to take a look at Romans 13, if you really want to be the expert on understanding the Bible.
It wouldn’t be that easy to find someone who understands the Bible better than Patriot. I know this guy. I’d recommend you listen to what he has to say.
WWJD,
Why don’t you read what Jesus said to the adulteress. Then you will see why I said what I said.
According to the IRS, “[a]n organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.” The Latino Clergy group wouldn’t happen to be tax-exempt, would it?
I am sorry, as a born and bred Catholic, I would like to tell Mr. WWJD that the catholic church’s stand in protecting illegal aliens is only due to the fact that their membership and attendance are in the toilet due to the sexual abuse scandals and their inability to modernize. They need each and every legal and illegal alien comiing here just to be able to pay back the money they are losing to their scandals and the insurance bills they are now having to pay. This is a shameful reality. Please let’s not even try to bring religion into this.
WWJD,
I am generally polite to people here, or attempt to be, but in your case, the white gloves are off.
You have no frigging idea what Jesus would do. Your smug, self-serving, self-righteous, arrogant attitude was obviously transparent the minute I saw your post. I despise anyone who uses religion, any religion, to advance their political purposes.
Religion is a matter of faith, not knowledge. If the Patriot wants to believe what he wrote, how dare you mimic him?
I guess the hotline didn’t answer when you called, did it? I sure never saw the response. Or…perhaps you were told something you didn’t want to share…..
http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_6643461
Speaking of the IRS…this is ridiculous!
Dolph, we know how Jesus would handle the situation…read how he dealt with the adulteress.
The Bible tells us everything we need to know. Sins will be forgiven, however, you must actively turn away from your sinful lifestyle. Therefore, in the case of illegals, they would be forgiven, however, they would need to turn from that behavior. How would they do this? They would go home and come back legally.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp
This is a must read. It was a speech from Richard Lamm former Colorado Governor on multi-culturalism. Read the whole thing!
Patriot
I have a book for you that may give you good insight on the effects of unregulated immigration in Europe
The title is Eurabia. The author is Bat Ye’or
I think the speech from Lamm says everything. We can definitely see these things happening.
The coalition also has a lawsuit pending against the township of Riverside, N.J., and is considering suing Oklahoma over sweeping anti-illegal alien legislation signed into law there in the spring. All this from an organization that claims it is against illegal immigration. What would it do if it supported illegal immigration?
Fed up, in America, the Catholic Church’s deep involvement in the organized sanctuary movement vis a vis Latinos predates the wave of sexual scandals in the church by *decades,* as in the very beginning of the 1980s. I know you said you came from Italy right, perhaps you were not here yet so were not aware of this fact.
PS: I don’t presume to know what the world’s most famous first- century Palestinian Jew would do about the immigration issue. But if I had to venture a guess, I would guess that he would not send illegal aliens back to poverty since he repeatedly broke the law himself for what he considered the greater good.
Leila, what laws were broken? You opened the can of worms so you must deliver the facts to support your claim.
FYI, the illegal woman(Elvira Arellano, http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/518336,CST-NWS-IMMIG21.article) who was seeking sanctuary at Adalberto United Methodist Church was deported back to Mexico.
As far as “What would Jesus do?” Well, Jesus was NOT some pacifistic person who when approached by a sinner sat down and sang “kum by ya”. If you remember, when He walked into the church and saw the money changers, He proceeded to kick butt by tossing their tables all over the place and kicking them out of the church.
That being said, The Patriot and Dolph are RIGHT ON with their comments concerning religion, and you coming in here on this Blog and making the comment you did reminds me of another verse in the Bible (Luke 4:8) “Get thee behind me, Satan” when he was tempted by the Devil.
Patriot, I’m surprised at you. Jesus broke Jewish law by healing on the Sabbath, among other things. I would assume it was also against Jewish law to interfere with an execution. Those were the laws of his own community. He presumably broke Roman law as well as the governing imperial power. And yes, religious law in ancient Judiasm was LAW.
Do you need some chapter and verse on the healing on the Sabbath law?
Leila,
As for your saying Christ repeatedly borke the law, this is simply not the case. Read the part in your Bible where Christ appeared before Pilate “Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.” John 3:38
In other words, Pilate found that Christ had broken NO laws!
JM,
EXCELLENT
JM, I specified first that he broke Jewish law. Jesus was a temple-going, circumcized Jew. He healed on the Sabbath, which was against the law. Just because the Jews were under imperial rule does not mean they didn’t have their own laws. Americans had their own laws when they were under imperial rule as well. And just because we approve of what he did, also doesn’t mean he didn’t break the prevailing law.
As for Pilate, I know what he said. I also know what he did. He kept him under arrest and ultimately allowed him to be executed. Considering how intensely legalistic and organized the Romans were, I would imagine that in history that act would be justified as law.
Think of it as civil disobedience if you like, which is also breaking the law. Jesus broke laws, freedom riders in the South broke laws, Gandhi broke laws, etc. etc.
Of course all of you on this list and me as well are likely lawbreakers too, although perhaps not for reasons of conscience, since there are countless laws most of us have broken.
Leila
First of all I came through Italy, but I am not Italian. Second, I came in 1979 and became a citizen in 1984.
Third. leave the Vatican nit picking to those who truly know about 1800 years of catholic history. And by the way: the catholic’s involvement in the latin community was always there, to try and convert and in some cases kills indios. Their involvement began when the Conquistadores breached through the resolve of the indigenous people. Is that the kind of involvement you are talking about? And furthermore, the church’s involvement prior to the incredible meddling they find themselves in now did not produce or try to produce a political outcome. The last time the catholic church had a real impact in politics, Hitler was allowed to become what he became.
Leila,
He did not break Jewish law at all! When the faith says no work on the Sabbath, it does not mean a day for sloth! It means that the Sabbath should be set aside for the Lord and His work. Healing IS the Lord’s work. Christ was not in error, the Pharisees were. In every instance, Christ upheld both church and secular law. he did stand up against abuse and erroneus interpretation of laws, but he never, ever borke them.
JM, I am not saying he was in error. But the Pharisees were the authority of his time and their interpretation was the law since they were the judges. Do you suppose your explanation for how Jesus didn’t break the law would work for an individual in our society claiming to have his own interpretation in the face of judges?
Nobody said the Sabbath was a day for sloth. But work has been interpreted different ways and to the authorities of his time, he broke the law. And God bless him for it!
Far be it from me to get involved in discussions of religion.
However, would someone please remind me where this discussion is going? I lost everyone’s point a long time ago.
Patriot at 12:05. Thanks for the link. I think there may be misinformation in it - someone needs to check it out. Terrence Jeffrey has done articles on this subject, I believe.
Also, here is a link showing Tancredo encouraging Newark’s victim families to sue the “sanctuary city”. This is the kind of case that should be pursued all over the country.
Sorry - here is the link: http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070821/NEWS03/708210307/1007
Leila,
John 7
“21Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. 22Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. 23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? 24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”
Remember Leila, Jesus = God, therefore Jesus established HIS law and HE is perfect and knows all. Therefore any law breaking is purely being done by the pharisees. Furthermore, remember that the Sabbath was created by God for man (not by man for God).
Leila
Jesus was not a Palestinian Jew. First of all “palestine” was not called thus at that time. It was the Kingdom of Israel, Judea and Samaria.
In addition, I think you have managed to piss of both Jews and Muslims, since a Jew would never call himself a palestinian and a palestinian would not usually call himself a Jew. I think you need to stick with Holy Land, just so you don’t put your foot in your mouth.
I have to post an email I received. It is lengthy but it needs to out there for the public to see.
August 21, 2007
Latino Faith Based Initiative - Ephesians 6:10-20
Hello,
As most of you may know by now, Elvira Arellano has been deported to Tijuana, Mexico by Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE). She was arrested as she left church in Los Angeles after speaking to a rally. I find it significant that ICE waited until she had left the church before making the arrest. It serves as a signal that the government will not move against anyone who is protected by the Church. The Church is indeed a place of sanctuary. After one year of seeking sanctuary at Adalberto United Methodist Church in Chicago, Elvira left on a journey of peace hoping to bring her plight before the United States Congress on September 12.
Instead of being able to bring more attention to her situation and that of her son Saul, 8 years old, before the United States Congress, she now has brought even greater light on the situation of separation of families by deportation. Elvira has now brought greater awareness to the injustice committed by ICE against families of undocumented families. It is a disgraceful and stunning arrest by ICE to commit especially since the woman is not a terrorist or is in anyway a threat to our nation’s security. By giving greater light to her year long struggle in Chicago, Elvira now commits to fight for families from Mexico. Elvira has become a greater national symbol of resistance and plight of separated families.
In fact, as much as many of us are against the action of taken by ICE, we can now look to a greater opportunity and fight against the injustice carried by the thousands of families like Elvira’s who have been separated and in many cases, left destitute by deportation.
If this country has used any two disgraceful actions of record to destroy and separate families, it has been the use of raids and deportations. It brings back memories of World War II as the German army and SS moved against Jews and used the trains to relocate families that often were separated and sent to concentration camps. Some people find the comparison to this action as unequal in scope, however, it was the same rational used - both groups of people were unacceptable to the government. Both groups were treated with disrespect, indignity, and in an unrighteous regard for their being human beings and families.
All across the country, vigils, prayer meetings, and fasts are being conducted to show our solidarity with Elvira and her son Saul. Saul is a a United States citizen and can not be deported by ICE. The fact is that Elvira has been separated from her son - her family by this cowardly act of deportation.
I ask that you please join with us in declaring to our government that the raids must stop and that the separation of families stop. It is imperative that we not join with Elvira in her struggle for justice. We can no longer just sit on the sidelines and watch our government destroy family after family. La Familia is one of our greatest contributions and values. To watch families being destroyed is something we must not allow to take place.
Please join with us in prayer for safety and security for Elvira and her son, Saul. We must remember that prayer is a powerful tool in the hands of righteous people. Let us ask God that He intervene and bring justice and peace to this family and the many other families that have been affected by raids, detentions, and deportations.
_______________________
Matthew 6:9-13 (NRSV)
“Pray then in this way:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And do not bring us to the time of trial,
but rescue us from the evil one.
_________________________
We do not know how to pray as we ought, but . . . [the] Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words.
- Romans 8:26 (NRSV)
_________________________
God bless you as we continue our fight for sanctuary and justice.
as long as she doesn’t do it on Sunday…THAT would be too much like work - lol
There will be no separation of families if all the family members are deported! No one says that specific family members must stay behind.
Maureen
I think the Jews were never allowed the luxury of leaving the country or seek shelter in a church, and their children were never given the chance to live comfortably with their relatives.
They were incinerated.
This is blasphemy.
And by the way, the deportee has the choice of whether to take their children with them back to their country. The only reason they leave them here is to “anchor” themselves to the US.
And who else thinks Elvira will be back in a month, probably with a Mexican issued Visa so she can fight the government without being deported?
Disgusted,
Probably in less than a month.
The liberals’ and illegal alien apologists’ hypocrisy and selective application of the laws of democratic societies never cease to amaze and infuriate me.
When a conservative uses any theological reference (especially a Christian one) to support a secular position, their response is always either something to do with violations of the separation between church and state, or criticism of how we’re trying to impose our values on them. They see no problem using theological references to support their own secular positions.
They justify any behavior by illegals because, even though the illegals are technically breaking laws, they are hard-working, non-violent and just seeking a better life for themselves and their families. The same could be said of the corporate criminals convicted in the Enron, WorldCom, etc. scandals. They are in prison, as they should be, but the liberal-illegal alien apologist complex takes glee in their receiving their comeuppance rather than rising to their defense.
The only differences between non-violent illegals (we’re not even considering the murderers, rapists and child-abusers among the illegal population here) and corporate criminals are the magnitude of the individual crimes and race. Each of the corporate scandals involved much more money than any individual illegal alien case. However, the aggregate cost to society of providing public services to illegals and the lowering of wages for American citizens and legal residents the illegals cause far outweighs any financial damage caused by the Enron and WorldCom crooks
Who has any doubt that racism plays a huge role here? The corporate criminals were white. Even though their crimes were of exactly the same nature as those of the non-violent, non-white illegals (breaking the law for personal economic gain), no liberals or illegal alien apologists cry for them (I don’t either, by the way). I would venture to say that if any non-white had become embroiled in that mess, the liberals and illegal alien apologists would have taken up their cause under the pretence of some sort of “victim” argument. The consistent position, to which those who want to get control of illegal migration adhere, is that a crime is a crime regardless of the race of the perpetrator.
The Bible says that if you break any part of the law (without specifying how minor or substantial) you’ve broken the entire law. It makes no distinction among income levels, classes or race. The liberal-illegal alien apologist complex needs to get their act together, drop their hypocrisy and racism, and be consistent in their positions. But I forgot; that would make them conservatives and our problems with them would be over.
P.S. Elvira’s crimes were not limited to crossing the border without documentation. She bought and used a fraudulent Social Security number (ID theft anyone?) The argument about separating families is nonsense. Her son can join her in Mexico any time the family chooses. Anointing this criminal as anyone’s hero is repugnant.
JTF - great points. BTW, why isn’t Elvira in jail for fraudulently using the SSN?
This illegal was indicted 2 weeks ago, but looking to serve 10 years for each charge and then be deported - WAY TO GO, ICE! If the pro-”immigrants” have their way, the police wouldn’t be able to check his status - or they’d just give him amnesty.
The source is http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=129943&ran=1659
Here’s a question for those with more legal expertise than I have. Is it possible to submit a FOIA request, or something similar, for criminal records (for example, to discover the SSN that Elvira was using)? If the fraudulent Social Security numbers that Elvira and her peers use were known they could be traced to their legitimate owners or the families of the legitimate owners if they are deceased. That should certainly subject the illegals using them to some sort of civil action. Moreover, attorneys would then have something better, and more lucrative, to do regarding illegals than help them fight deportation. Just a thought.
le - I’m sure the reasons Elvira is not in prison for using the fraudulent SNN stem from hypocrisy and racism.
If you read this it may just make you PUKE!
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/story/153645.html
Fed Up, the name Palestine for that particular region as a whole is very ancient. Herodotus, the Greek historian, used it in the fifth century BC and it predates him. It is true that the Romans renamed Judaea as Palestine (English version) after the Second Jewish Revolt, but the term was in use before then. In any event, my apologies if I offended you by using the term.
From the Columbia Encyclopedia:
“Palestine at the time of Jesus was ruled by puppet kings of the Romans, the Herods (see Herod).”
http://www.bartleby.com/65/pa/Palestin.html
You appear to think all Palestinians are Muslim. That would definitely surprise the important segment of the Palestinian population who are Christian and whose roots are in the first Christian communities to ever exist. I am sure you realize there are indigenous Christian populations all over the Arab world. As for whether a Jew might ever call himself or herself a Palestinian, I dare say it would be rare today for political reasons, but it happens. In the past, for example, the centuries of Ottoman rule, Palestinian Jew was simply the correct term since the people of Palestine historically have been Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Druze.
Leila
Nice try. But no
Dear Leila
Here is a little help for you.
By the way, the last time I was in Jerusalem, there were only 13 Christian families left and they were leaving. You need to update yourself.
By the way, many encyclopediae, including Columbia, render homage to the British definition of Palestine. Since what are is Palestine has never been totally clarified i will attach a little something for your to chew on:
Different geographic definitions of Palestine have been used over the millennia, and these definitions themselves are politically contentious. In recent times, the broadest definition of Palestine has been that adopted by the British Mandate, and the narrowest is that used in contemporary politics today, called the Palestinian territories, which are the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Other English names for this region include: Canaan, Land of Israel, and Holy Land.
Ancient Egyptian texts called the entire Levantine coastal area along the Mediterranean Sea between modern Egypt and Turkey R-t-n-u (conventionally Retjenu). Retjenu was subdivided into three regions and the southern region, Djahy, shared approximately the same boundaries as Canaan, or modern-day Israel and the Palestinian territories.
During the Iron Age, the Kingdom of Israel of the United Monarchy may have reigned from Jerusalem over an area approximating modern-day Israel and the Palestinian territories, extending farther westward and northward to cover much (but not all) of the greater Land of Israel, although archaeological evidence for this period is very rare and disputed.[1][2]
The term “Palestine” derives from the word Philistine,[3] the word in Hebrew is _____________ Pelishtim, this word is derived from the word __________ Pelisha, meaning invasion or incursion.
The name was given to the non-Semitic ethnic group, originating from Southern Greece, closely related to early Mycenaean civilization.[4] Inhabiting a smaller area on the southern coast called Philistia, whose borders approximate the modern Gaza Strip, Philistia comprised a confederation of five city states: Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod on the coast and Ekron, and Gath inland.[5]
Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu, record a people called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset), one of the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III’s reign. This is considered very likely to be a reference to the Philistines. The Hebrew name Peleshet (Hebrew: _____ P_léshseth), usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible to denote their southern coastal region.
The Assyrian emperor Sargon II called the region the Palashtu in his Annals. By the time of Assyrian rule in 722 BCE, the Philistines had become “part and parcel of the local population,”[6] [7] and prospered under Assyrian rule during the seventh century despite occasional rebellions against their overlords.[5] In 604 BCE, when Chaldean troops commanded by the Babylonian empire carried off significant numbers of the population into slavery, the distinctly Philistine character of the coastal cities ceased to exist,[6][8] and the history of the Philistine people effectively ended.[5]
In the 5th century BCE, Herodotus wrote in Greek of a “district of Syria, called Palaistinêi” (whence Latin: Palaestina, whence English: Palestine)[9][10][11]. The boundaries of the area he referred to were not explicitly stated, but Josephus used the name only for the smaller coastal area, Philistia. Ptolemy also used the term. In Latin, Pliny mentions a region of Syria that was “formerly called Palaestina” among the areas of the Eastern Mediterranean.
During the Roman period, the Iudaea Province (including Samaria) covered most of Israel and the Palestinian territories. But following the Bar Kokhba rebellion in the 2nd century, as part of a dual program of cooptation and forced migration, the Romans tried to erase the Jewish connection to the land of Judea, renaming it Syria Palaestina (Latin: Syria Palaestina) (including Judea) and Samaria.[12]
During the Byzantine Period, this entire region (including Syria Palestine, Samaria, and Galilee) was renamed Palaestina and then subdivided into Diocese I and II. The Byzantines also renamed an area of land including the Negev, Sinai, and the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula as Palaestina Salutoris, sometimes called Palaestina III. Since the Byzantine Period, the Byzantine borders of Palaestina (I and II) have served as a name for the geographic area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
The Hebrew Bible calls the region Canaan (Hebrew: ______) when referring to the pre-Israelite period and thereafter Israel (Yisrael). The name “Land of the Hebrews” (Hebrew: ___ _______, Eretz Ha-Ivrim) is also found, as well as several poetical names: “land flowing with milk and honey”, “land that [God] swore to your fathers to assign to you”, “Holy Land”, “Land of the Lord”, and the “Promised Land”.
The Land of Canaan is given a precise description in (Numbers 34:1) as including all of Lebanon, as well (Joshua 13:5). The wide area appears to have been the home of several small nations such as the Canaanites, Hebrews, Hittites, Amorrhites, Pherezites, Hevites and Jebusites.
According to Hebrew tradition, the land of Canaan is part of the land given to the descendants of Abraham, which extends from the Nile to the Euphrates River (Genesis 15:18). This land is said to include an area called Aram Naharaim, which includes Ur Kasdim in modern Turkey, where Abraham’s father was born.
In Exodus 13:17, “And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt.”
The events of the Four Gospels of the Christian Bible take place entirely in the Holy Land.
In the Qur’an, the term (”Holy Land”, Al-Ard Al-Muqaddasah) [13] is mentioned at least seven times, once when Moses proclaims to the Children of Israel: “O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.” (Surah 5:21)
As you can see from ancient times, the Jewry has always distinguished itself from the Philistines, or inhabitant of that part which could be called Palestine.
Now if jews wouldn’t mind calling themselves Palestinians, why would they call it the land of Israel?
Leila
Here is a paragraph from the Catholic Encyclopaedia:
Pontius Pilate
After the deposition of the eldest son of Herod, Archelaus (who had succeeded his father as ethnarch), Judea was placed under the rule of a Roman procurator. Pilate, who was the fifth, succeeding Valerius Gratus in A.D. 26, had greater authority than most procurators under the empire, for in addition to the ordinary duty of financial administration, he had supreme power judicially. His unusually long period of office (A.D. 26-36) covers the whole of the active ministry both of St. John the Baptist and of Jesus Christ.
As procurator Pilate was necessarily of equestrian rank, but beyond that we know little of his family or origin. Some have thought that he was only a freedman, deriving his name from pileus (the cap of freed slaves) but for this there seems to be no adequate evidence, and it is unlikely that a freedman would attain to a post of such importance. The Pontii were a Samnite gens. Pilate owed his appointment to the influence of Sejanus. The official residence of the procurators was the palace of Herod at Cæsarea; where there was a military force of about 3,000 soldiers. These soldiers came up to Jerusalem at the time of the feasts, when the city was full of strangers, and there was greater danger of disturbances, hence it was that Pilate had come to Jerusalem at the time of the Crucifixion. His name will be forever covered with infamy because of the part which he took in this matter, though at the time it appeared to him of small importance.
Fed Up, you truly must be kidding. There are far more than 13 Palestinian Christian families (I am assuming you mean individual families, and not clans of hundreds or thousands of people) in Jerusalem and there are certainly still many Palestinian Christian families in other towns like Ramallah and Bethlehem on the West Bank, Nazareth in green line Israel, etc. I could go on and on. I have no idea why you focus on Jerusalem since other cities, like Ramallah, have been far more linked with the Christian community. There are even Palestinian Christians in the overwhelmingly Muslim Gaza Strip.
It is you who need to update yourself I fear. Unless your view of Christian doesn’t include those of the indigenous churches, particularly Orthodox churches. I would invite you to attend a service at St. George Antiochian Orthodox Church in the District.
Because of the troubles and later, the political rise of Hamas, there has been a huge amount of emigration by Palestinian Christians, but there is still a significant presence in what is the historical territory of Palestine.
Here is from a study reported by a Lutheran group in an online article dated 2/07:
“A recent study reported 162,000 Palestinian Christians live in the Holy Land, Younan said, adding that 120,000 live in Israel (within 1949 borders), 40,000 live in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and 2,000 live in Gaza. Before 1948, Christians made up about 15 percent of the population in historic Palestine. Today Christians are less than 2 percent of the population in the West Bank and one-quarter of 1 percent in Gaza, he said.”
http://www.elca.org/ScriptLib/CO/ELCA_News/encArticleList.asp?article=3517
The numbers above are indeed distressing. Emigration has been devastating. But in any case, if a Palestinian Christian ends up in America or another Western country, he/she does not cease being a Palestinian Christian, so your presumption of Palestinians being Muslim only still does not apply. Most people of Arab descent in the United States are Christian.
May I ask when you were last in Jerusalem? I guess it must have been last week or something since everyone apparently left.
Leila, Leila
errare humanum est, perseverare est diabolicum.
You seem not to want to accept the fact that you can call Israel and the palestinian territories what you want, but you cannot call Jesus a palestinian Jew. It is not what we call the land now, it was what they called it then. Leila I thought better of you.
It is alright to make a mistake, it is not alright not to accept to have made a mistake. There are many Christians in the west bank, in Lebanon, in the gaza strip, etc. I sais Jerusalem.
I warmly advise you not to consider a diplomatic career.
Fed Up,
I have no interest in being a diplomat, but I would advise you not to be a demographer. You haven’t given a shred of evidence that there are only 13 families of Palestinian Christians left in Jerusalem or that they are all leaving. Assuming you mean families in the ordinary sense of the term not clans of many hundreds or thousands, then you are claiming that the sum total of Palestinian Christians in Jerusalem is a couple of hundred people. Is that what you mean? 13 individual nuclear or even limited extended families?
Please give some data that would, for example, refute the following information:
…in 2005, the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, put the number of Christians in Jerusalem at slightly over 12,000 (with over 2,000 non-Arab Christians).”
This paragraph is from the Jerusalem Fund report on Easter in the Holy Land in 2007. They are claiming, as of 2005, 10,000 Arab Christians in Jerusalem. Are these your 13 families? Are you saying that since 2005, the 10,000 have dwindled to 13 families comprising a few hundred people and they have all left? Also, I am curious why you won’t say when you were last in Jerusalem? From your claims, you don’t exactly appear to have any ties to the Middle East.
Leila
Instead of becoming verklempt, here are some points to the rescue:
1. There is no census of the citadel or of Jerusalem proper available on the internet.
2. The only census there is of the Jerusalem quarter, a much much larger area, was last done in 2005.
3. Every year about 30% of christians emigrate out of the quarter and only 24-25% immigrate to the quarter, with a net loss of 5-7%
4. Because of their permanent status much of the clergy, priest, prelates, father, friors, monks, are all counted in the census. Since some of them are in rotation, such as monks and priests, the numbers are even more uncertain.
5. The Office of the Mayor of Jerusalem could give you better numbers.
6. Demographics are available at the Isreali government site.
7. No one really knows how many christians are in the citadel at any one time.
Now. It is really worth getting your gulliver in a froth?
So I guess these clowns advocate the breaking of US Laws all to accomodate the illegals. Let them follow through but I will stand behind our PWC Supervisors and this great resolution they came up with.
Illegal mean Illegal!