Illegal mean Illegal!

1. There is no census of the citadel or of Jerusalem proper available on the internet.
2. The only census there is of the Jerusalem quarter, a much much larger area, was last done in 2005.
3. Every year about 30% of christians emigrate out of the quarter and only 24-25% immigrate to the quarter, with a net loss of 5-7%
4. Because of their permanent status much of the clergy, priest, prelates, father, friors, monks, are all counted in the census. Since some of them are in rotation, such as monks and priests, the numbers are even more uncertain.
5. The Office of the Mayor of Jerusalem could give you better numbers.
6. Demographics are available at the Isreali government site.
7. No one really knows how many christians are in the citadel at any one time.

Now. It is really worth getting your gulliver in a froth?

I have no interest in being a diplomat, but I would advise you not to be a demographer. You haven’t given a shred of evidence that there are only 13 families of Palestinian Christians left in Jerusalem or that they are all leaving. Assuming you mean families in the ordinary sense of the term not clans of many hundreds or thousands, then you are claiming that the sum total of Palestinian Christians in Jerusalem is a couple of hundred people. Is that what you mean? 13 individual nuclear or even limited extended families?

Please give some data that would, for example, refute the following information:

…in 2005, the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, put the number of Christians in Jerusalem at slightly over 12,000 (with over 2,000 non-Arab Christians).”

This paragraph is from the Jerusalem Fund report on Easter in the Holy Land in 2007. They are claiming, as of 2005, 10,000 Arab Christians in Jerusalem. Are these your 13 families? Are you saying that since 2005, the 10,000 have dwindled to 13 families comprising a few hundred people and they have all left? Also, I am curious why you won’t say when you were last in Jerusalem? From your claims, you don’t exactly appear to have any ties to the Middle East.

errare humanum est, perseverare est diabolicum.

You seem not to want to accept the fact that you can call Israel and the palestinian territories what you want, but you cannot call Jesus a palestinian Jew. It is not what we call the land now, it was what they called it then. Leila I thought better of you.

It is alright to make a mistake, it is not alright not to accept to have made a mistake. There are many Christians in the west bank, in Lebanon, in the gaza strip, etc. I sais Jerusalem.

I warmly advise you not to consider a diplomatic career.

It is you who need to update yourself I fear. Unless your view of Christian doesn’t include those of the indigenous churches, particularly Orthodox churches. I would invite you to attend a service at St. George Antiochian Orthodox Church in the District.

Because of the troubles and later, the political rise of Hamas, there has been a huge amount of emigration by Palestinian Christians, but there is still a significant presence in what is the historical territory of Palestine.

Here is from a study reported by a Lutheran group in an online article dated 2/07:

“A recent study reported 162,000 Palestinian Christians live in the Holy Land, Younan said, adding that 120,000 live in Israel (within 1949 borders), 40,000 live in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and 2,000 live in Gaza. Before 1948, Christians made up about 15 percent of the population in historic Palestine. Today Christians are less than 2 percent of the population in the West Bank and one-quarter of 1 percent in Gaza, he said.”

http://www.elca.org/ScriptLib/CO/ELCA_News/encArticleList.asp?article=3517

The numbers above are indeed distressing. Emigration has been devastating. But in any case, if a Palestinian Christian ends up in America or another Western country, he/she does not cease being a Palestinian Christian, so your presumption of Palestinians being Muslim only still does not apply. Most people of Arab descent in the United States are Christian.

May I ask when you were last in Jerusalem? I guess it must have been last week or something since everyone apparently left.

Here is a paragraph from the Catholic Encyclopaedia:

Pontius Pilate

After the deposition of the eldest son of Herod, Archelaus (who had succeeded his father as ethnarch), Judea was placed under the rule of a Roman procurator. Pilate, who was the fifth, succeeding Valerius Gratus in A.D. 26, had greater authority than most procurators under the empire, for in addition to the ordinary duty of financial administration, he had supreme power judicially. His unusually long period of office (A.D. 26-36) covers the whole of the active ministry both of St. John the Baptist and of Jesus Christ.

As procurator Pilate was necessarily of equestrian rank, but beyond that we know little of his family or origin. Some have thought that he was only a freedman, deriving his name from pileus (the cap of freed slaves) but for this there seems to be no adequate evidence, and it is unlikely that a freedman would attain to a post of such importance. The Pontii were a Samnite gens. Pilate owed his appointment to the influence of Sejanus. The official residence of the procurators was the palace of Herod at Cæsarea; where there was a military force of about 3,000 soldiers. These soldiers came up to Jerusalem at the time of the feasts, when the city was full of strangers, and there was greater danger of disturbances, hence it was that Pilate had come to Jerusalem at the time of the Crucifixion. His name will be forever covered with infamy because of the part which he took in this matter, though at the time it appeared to him of small importance.

By the way, the last time I was in Jerusalem, there were only 13 Christian families left and they were leaving. You need to update yourself.

By the way, many encyclopediae, including Columbia, render homage to the British definition of Palestine. Since what are is Palestine has never been totally clarified i will attach a little something for your to chew on:

Different geographic definitions of Palestine have been used over the millennia, and these definitions themselves are politically contentious. In recent times, the broadest definition of Palestine has been that adopted by the British Mandate, and the narrowest is that used in contemporary politics today, called the Palestinian territories, which are the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Other English names for this region include: Canaan, Land of Israel, and Holy Land.
Ancient Egyptian texts called the entire Levantine coastal area along the Mediterranean Sea between modern Egypt and Turkey R-t-n-u (conventionally Retjenu). Retjenu was subdivided into three regions and the southern region, Djahy, shared approximately the same boundaries as Canaan, or modern-day Israel and the Palestinian territories.
During the Iron Age, the Kingdom of Israel of the United Monarchy may have reigned from Jerusalem over an area approximating modern-day Israel and the Palestinian territories, extending farther westward and northward to cover much (but not all) of the greater Land of Israel, although archaeological evidence for this period is very rare and disputed.[1][2]
The term “Palestine” derives from the word Philistine,[3] the word in Hebrew is _____________ Pelishtim, this word is derived from the word __________ Pelisha, meaning invasion or incursion.
The name was given to the non-Semitic ethnic group, originating from Southern Greece, closely related to early Mycenaean civilization.[4] Inhabiting a smaller area on the southern coast called Philistia, whose borders approximate the modern Gaza Strip, Philistia comprised a confederation of five city states: Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod on the coast and Ekron, and Gath inland.[5]
Egyptian texts of the temple at Medinet Habu, record a people called the P-r-s-t (conventionally Peleset), one of the Sea Peoples who invaded Egypt in Ramesses III’s reign. This is considered very likely to be a reference to the Philistines. The Hebrew name Peleshet (Hebrew: _____ P_léshseth), usually translated as Philistia in English, is used in the Bible to denote their southern coastal region.
The Assyrian emperor Sargon II called the region the Palashtu in his Annals. By the time of Assyrian rule in 722 BCE, the Philistines had become “part and parcel of the local population,”[6] [7] and prospered under Assyrian rule during the seventh century despite occasional rebellions against their overlords.[5] In 604 BCE, when Chaldean troops commanded by the Babylonian empire carried off significant numbers of the population into slavery, the distinctly Philistine character of the coastal cities ceased to exist,[6][8] and the history of the Philistine people effectively ended.[5]
In the 5th century BCE, Herodotus wrote in Greek of a “district of Syria, called Palaistinêi” (whence Latin: Palaestina, whence English: Palestine)[9][10][11]. The boundaries of the area he referred to were not explicitly stated, but Josephus used the name only for the smaller coastal area, Philistia. Ptolemy also used the term. In Latin, Pliny mentions a region of Syria that was “formerly called Palaestina” among the areas of the Eastern Mediterranean.
During the Roman period, the Iudaea Province (including Samaria) covered most of Israel and the Palestinian territories. But following the Bar Kokhba rebellion in the 2nd century, as part of a dual program of cooptation and forced migration, the Romans tried to erase the Jewish connection to the land of Judea, renaming it Syria Palaestina (Latin: Syria Palaestina) (including Judea) and Samaria.[12]
During the Byzantine Period, this entire region (including Syria Palestine, Samaria, and Galilee) was renamed Palaestina and then subdivided into Diocese I and II. The Byzantines also renamed an area of land including the Negev, Sinai, and the west coast of the Arabian Peninsula as Palaestina Salutoris, sometimes called Palaestina III. Since the Byzantine Period, the Byzantine borders of Palaestina (I and II) have served as a name for the geographic area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
The Hebrew Bible calls the region Canaan (Hebrew: ______) when referring to the pre-Israelite period and thereafter Israel (Yisrael). The name “Land of the Hebrews” (Hebrew: ___ _______, Eretz Ha-Ivrim) is also found, as well as several poetical names: “land flowing with milk and honey”, “land that [God] swore to your fathers to assign to you”, “Holy Land”, “Land of the Lord”, and the “Promised Land”.
The Land of Canaan is given a precise description in (Numbers 34:1) as including all of Lebanon, as well (Joshua 13:5). The wide area appears to have been the home of several small nations such as the Canaanites, Hebrews, Hittites, Amorrhites, Pherezites, Hevites and Jebusites.
According to Hebrew tradition, the land of Canaan is part of the land given to the descendants of Abraham, which extends from the Nile to the Euphrates River (Genesis 15:18). This land is said to include an area called Aram Naharaim, which includes Ur Kasdim in modern Turkey, where Abraham’s father was born.
In Exodus 13:17, “And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt.”
The events of the Four Gospels of the Christian Bible take place entirely in the Holy Land.
In the Qur’an, the term (”Holy Land”, Al-Ard Al-Muqaddasah) [13] is mentioned at least seven times, once when Moses proclaims to the Children of Israel: “O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.” (Surah 5:21)

As you can see from ancient times, the Jewry has always distinguished itself from the Philistines, or inhabitant of that part which could be called Palestine.

Now if jews wouldn’t mind calling themselves Palestinians, why would they call it the land of Israel?

Nice try. But no

From the Columbia Encyclopedia:

“Palestine at the time of Jesus was ruled by puppet kings of the Romans, the Herods (see Herod).”

http://www.bartleby.com/65/pa/Palestin.html

You appear to think all Palestinians are Muslim. That would definitely surprise the important segment of the Palestinian population who are Christian and whose roots are in the first Christian communities to ever exist. I am sure you realize there are indigenous Christian populations all over the Arab world. As for whether a Jew might ever call himself or herself a Palestinian, I dare say it would be rare today for political reasons, but it happens. In the past, for example, the centuries of Ottoman rule, Palestinian Jew was simply the correct term since the people of Palestine historically have been Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Druze.

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/story/153645.html

le - I’m sure the reasons Elvira is not in prison for using the fraudulent SNN stem from hypocrisy and racism.

When a conservative uses any theological reference (especially a Christian one) to support a secular position, their response is always either something to do with violations of the separation between church and state, or criticism of how we’re trying to impose our values on them. They see no problem using theological references to support their own secular positions.

They justify any behavior by illegals because, even though the illegals are technically breaking laws, they are hard-working, non-violent and just seeking a better life for themselves and their families. The same could be said of the corporate criminals convicted in the Enron, WorldCom, etc. scandals. They are in prison, as they should be, but the liberal-illegal alien apologist complex takes glee in their receiving their comeuppance rather than rising to their defense.

The only differences between non-violent illegals (we’re not even considering the murderers, rapists and child-abusers among the illegal population here) and corporate criminals are the magnitude of the individual crimes and race. Each of the corporate scandals involved much more money than any individual illegal alien case. However, the aggregate cost to society of providing public services to illegals and the lowering of wages for American citizens and legal residents the illegals cause far outweighs any financial damage caused by the Enron and WorldCom crooks

Who has any doubt that racism plays a huge role here? The corporate criminals were white. Even though their crimes were of exactly the same nature as those of the non-violent, non-white illegals (breaking the law for personal economic gain), no liberals or illegal alien apologists cry for them (I don’t either, by the way). I would venture to say that if any non-white had become embroiled in that mess, the liberals and illegal alien apologists would have taken up their cause under the pretence of some sort of “victim” argument. The consistent position, to which those who want to get control of illegal migration adhere, is that a crime is a crime regardless of the race of the perpetrator.

The Bible says that if you break any part of the law (without specifying how minor or substantial) you’ve broken the entire law. It makes no distinction among income levels, classes or race. The liberal-illegal alien apologist complex needs to get their act together, drop their hypocrisy and racism, and be consistent in their positions. But I forgot; that would make them conservatives and our problems with them would be over.

P.S. Elvira’s crimes were not limited to crossing the border without documentation. She bought and used a fraudulent Social Security number (ID theft anyone?) The argument about separating families is nonsense. Her son can join her in Mexico any time the family chooses. Anointing this criminal as anyone’s hero is repugnant.

Probably in less than a month.

I think the Jews were never allowed the luxury of leaving the country or seek shelter in a church, and their children were never given the chance to live comfortably with their relatives.

They were incinerated.

This is blasphemy.

And by the way, the deportee has the choice of whether to take their children with them back to their country. The only reason they leave them here is to “anchor” themselves to the US.