Ever Wonder Why Are There So Many Illegal Aliens?
By Greg L | 26 August 2007 | National Politics, Illegal Aliens | 71 Comments
From On High poses a good question, although I think he’s underestimating the number of illegal aliens in the country by quite a bit:
Ever wonder how it is that we ended up with 12 million illegal aliens in our midst?
12,000,000.
Just ask the guy who’s supposed to be preventing them from entering the country:
Border Patrol chief rejects mission against aliens, drugs
By Sara A. Carter, The Washington Times“I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again,” Carlos X. Carrillo, Border Patrol chief of Laredo, Texas, told guests at a town-hall meeting Thursday. “The Border Patrol’s job is not to stop illegal immigrants. The Border Patrol’s job is not to stop narcotics. … The Border Patrol’s mission is not to stop criminals.
“The Border Patrol’s mission is to stop terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the country.” (link)
Given the huge problem we have with crimes committed being committed by illegal aliens (H/T Delmarva Dealings), ignoring the Border Patrol’s mission to help combat the entry of criminals into the United States certainly has contributed to the problems we’re facing:
Today, criminal aliens account for more than 29% of prisoners in these facilities, and are now the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population.
Over the last five years, an average of more than 72,000 illegal aliens have been arrested annually on just drug charges!
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NumbersUSA.com
Click on the “Introduce your firends and family to Numbers USA” it’s a maroon square.
Nearly Ten thousand American citizens are killed each year by Illegal Aliens! This number is greater than 9/11 & our troops killed combined since 9/11!
Tens of thousands more are assaulted, robbed, & raped!
By the government own figures there are over 250,000 Illegal Aliens sexual Criminals in the USA! Illegal aliens account for sixty-five percent of communicable diseases in the United States (2004 numbers). The FBI estimates that 50,000 of the 100,000 gang members in LA county in Calif. Are Illegal Aliens from South of the Border!
Million of Lives are Destroyed by the Estimated 128 Billion of Drugs pouring across our Borders from Mexico each year & thousands of Public Officials are Corrupted by the Vast sums of money Available from the Mexican Drug Cartel!
Each day up to another 10,000 Illegal Aliens are pouring across our Borders. Our Politicians and President have sold This Nation out to Big Business, the Mexican Drug Cartel & to the racist hate group La Raza!
62% of all “undocumented immigrants” in the United States are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens, working without a green card;
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens;
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens;
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens;
75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens;
No ethnic group in the U.S. is producing out-of-wedlock children at a higher rate than Hispanics.
More than 380,000 “anchor babies” were born in the United States in 2005 were to parents who are illegal aliens; making those 380,000 babies automatically U.S. citizens. 97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayer;
More than 66% of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers;
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally;
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally;
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally;
29% (6 30,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually;
More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens;
More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border;
More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens;
More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens;
58% of all Welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens; If you consider free medical care & the 7 to 10 thousand dollars required to Educate their Many Children each year then the Welfare number is near 100%.
Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties in the United States are illegal aliens;
More than 34% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens;
More than 24% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are non-English-speaking;
More than 39% of California students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens;
More than 42% of California students in grades 1-12 are non-English-speaking;
In Los Angeles County, 5.1 million people speak English; 3.9 million speak Spanish;
More than 71% of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by illegal aliens or transport “coyotes”;
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens;
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens;
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66%, 98% are illegal aliens;
Less than 2% of illegal aliens in the United States are picking crops, but 41% are on welfare;
Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration;
The estimated profit to U.S. corporations and businesses employing illegal aliens in 2005 was more than $2.36 TRILLION dollars;
The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University]; the cost is MANY TIMES GREATER now in 2006! In 2006 the average cost of each Illegal Alien here is 11,000.00 per year for American Taxpayers!
When Illegal Aliens are deported to their own countries:
1. Our Federal & State Welfare cost will decrease by Billions & State our tax Receipts will increase by billions
2. Our crime & cost, both in money and human suffering will take a Hugh drop down
3. Our schools will make a great improvement in the education of our children & cost decrease
4. Innovation will increase
5. Medical care will improve and cost will go down
6. Insurance cost will decrease
7. The increase in wages & the 60 billion currently going out of country now will create a large increase in demand for goods and services & new businesses and expanding business & our economy will soar
8. Even business that think they must have Slave labor to survive will find they are more profitable & new revenues & sources for profits will increase. (As Henry Ford discovered if he wanted to sell cars he must pay a livable wage so people could afford his cars)
9.. Our standard of living will go up
10.. But maybe the most important benefit will be stopping the influx of Illegal Aliens with their Loyally to other Nations & hate for all things American, that if left unchecked will tear our society apart!
Lovely. Selective enforcement filtered through the prism (prison?) of political correctness.
“The Border Patrol’s job is not to stop ILLEGAL immigrants…”
Who’s job is it then!?
“The Border Patrol’s mission is to stop terrorists and terrorist weapons from entering the country.”
Uh, Carrillo, you’re not even doing that!
Good. I’m glad he said it. This adds fuel to the fire; it’s pi$$ing people off. Google it.
Watch. They’ll start to back-pedal on this and/or say ‘oh, you took his comments out of context’.
Good grief.
B.L. Can you please give me your sources for your above statistics and percentages. I would love to show this to a few people and I know they will attempt to discredit it. If I could cite references, it would really shut them up.
Thanks!
FYI - Greg L revised the number killed from 10,000 to 2,158 in another thread. BL’s numbers seems to be mostly BS. I doubt that Anonymous will be able any data to back BL’s statistics.
BL - I forgot to ask: How many murders are there overall in the US yearly? And don’t forget to state the source of your info. Thanks!
Lovisa, I would agree. BL’s “statistics” appear to be a jumble of the same mystery numbers that migrate the net and never acknowledge parentage. The ones on warrants in particular are famous and famously undocumented. I really would like to see a actual source ending in .gov or similar.
BL?
Actually, the only statistic that BL provided with the number “10,000″ in it is as follows:
“Each day up to another 10,000 Illegal Aliens are pouring across our Borders.”
I believe this statistic actually understates the problem, as I know one Arizona property owner that reports that between one and four thousand illegal aliens cross through just her property every evening. I’ve seen a tremendous amount of evidence to support this, from pictures of “rape trees” on her property, to the “pocket trash” that litters her property every evening, and other evidence.
Leila, I believe you are misquoting BL, but if I’ve got it wrong, please show me where BL has made such a claim.
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/userletter/?id=158&letter_id=1354780601
2006 (First Quarter) INS/FBI Statistical Report on Undocumented Immigrants
Greg L. Where was I quoting BL? I want to answer your question, but I don’t know what you are asking about. Thanks.
I didn’t ask for sources to attempt to discredit BL. If anything, I’d like to be able to prove his numbers are accurate. Sadly, for the U.S. as it may be. I deal with many uninformed people daily who like to think I am overreacting when I share information I’ve learned here. I’d really like to be able to give them sources to shut them up.
Bridget, unfortunately that URL just takes us to a member of Congress’s webpage in which he reproduces the same list found in numerous anti-illegal alien sites and posts in a letter, but without a source. He uses the usual header of 2006 INS/FBI, but the INS no longer existed in 2006. If you put what Shelby is officially calling the name of the report in Google, it just leads back to Shelby and nowhere else. I would imagine a staffer grabbed the info off some movement site and just pasted it in, as per usual, with no checking or realization that there may be a problem. That’s the generous interpretation: an honest mistake.
In terms of numbers, I am speaking specifically of the warrants/crime section. I have read elsewhere on a conservative blog that while these figures are reproduced everywhere, nobody can find the numbers attached to an actual document from the alleged FBI and (in 2006) non-existent INS.
I would like to see sources for the statistics BL offered.
I hate to say it, but with a high number of Latio’s working the border it is no wonder they are allowing millions of their own in. It might sound a bit racist, but the numbers bear it out.
Greg L., it was Lovisa who made the comment on the bogus 10,000 and BL indeed uses that figure, modified by “nearly” in his very first line. He just doesn’t write it numerically.
Who cares about the source of BL’s statistics? I think he’s hit the CTRL-V command so many times that he does it out of habit, now, whether the statistics are germane to the thread or not. Disregard them and let’s get on with the effort.
Besides, we don’t need to analyze BL’s statistics to know how our neighborhoods, our schools, and our lives have been so adversely affected by illegal immigration. I don’t care where the stats came from, who developed them, what they are, or what BL intends to show by continually posting them on this blog. I do know that we need to continually raise the issue with our representatives, and maintain heat on appointed officials like Police Chief Charley Deane. He’s still concerned about relationships with the illegal community. What a crock of horse puckey! I think he’s scared of igniting an illegal uprising if he shows a little backbone. We need a police chief who will stand up to threats and intimidation from all groups, not an appeaser.
BTW, sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/VA287g/petition.html. E-mail it to everyone you know. Let the Governor know that we don’t want to wait for a Newark execution to happen here.
PS: Regarding murders of American citizens by illegal aliens of course, not people pouring across borders.
Advocator, “germane” wasn’t the question regarding BL’s macro’d stats, accuracy was. But I would agree with you, the stats are not that relevant to your local concerns. It would be nice if it were only BL who was so happy to paste them over and over without any backup whatsoever.
I cannot find the website where all these numbers are debunked. The website proves that most of the numbers that BL are posting are false. I am not defending the issue that it is OK to have illegal immigration but that source is not real.
“Million of Lives are Destroyed by the Estimated 128 Billion of Drugs pouring across our Borders from Mexico”
This one is new though. It might be right but one quick question: Who is buying these drugs?
The same illegal aliens?
Our teenagers? Whgre do they get the money. The same money that buys High School Musical to seven-year-olds?
We talk about drugs only referring to the sources and not the consumers. There is something wrong but we don’t say the same thing about alcohol. It semms that with alcohol, the addict is responsible but with drugs coming from the south is just the illegal aliens. What do you have to say about the demand?
I don’t want to sound about an illegal alien apologist, jus focus our discussion to explore some of our real problems.
We will get rid of the illegal aliens, protect the border, and still we will have alot of adicts.
I didn’t answer the question posed. It is very simple, we have these many illegal aliens because we have an economy created around a system that encourages cheap labor. We have illegal aliens to give all these business the hands they need and in return we get….practically nothing. Cheap products in some cases but mostly everything goes to the pockets of the business owners.
Is HSM doing anything against business owners supporting illegal aliens? before the boycott I didn’t hear anything butr I might be wrong. That is the source of the problem. Follow the money!
TH,
I don’t wan to sound “brass” but this blog is not an “official” Help Save Manassas forum.Yes, there are members & nonmembers. I know you said you are some kind of social behavior researcher or something to that effect. We are not an experiment. If you have any question or concerns about Help Save Manassas, come to a meeting or get in touch with one of the officials. They hold open meetings.
helpsavemanassas.org
Reply to Greg L’s 4:10 comment. - In the very first sentence of BL’s 3:00 pm comment he writes: “Nearly Ten thousand American citizens are killed each year by Illegal Aliens!”
Greg L wrote at 4:10: Actually the only statistic BL provided with the number “10,000″ in it is as follows: “Each day up to another 10,000 Illegal Aliens (why do you capitalize those two words anyway?) are pouring across our borders…..”
So BL didn’t use numerals, but Ten thousand is 10,000!
Sure, it is not the official HSM blog but please remove the HSM manassas refernce in my post and tell me: Are you doing anything to focus your efforts on going to the source of the problem?
You are not an experiment redawn but believeme, i enjoy reading this blog. I learned a lot (good things and bad things).
redawn,
There are post such as “Help Save Manassas Responds” in this blog and you don’t want to be brass with me. I don’t know where I got the idea that this is an official HSM blog (This is just another experiment to measure how you react).
Talking about experiments, i am downloading every post and running some data mining, vey intereting stuff you get out of it…. I am kidding. i have done with Lou Dobbs transcripts though and you get fascinating information out of it.
TH,
I too have learned a lot from this blog and believe me, I am working with others to get to the root of the problem. It takes a lot of time and dedication as well as education . The problem did not occur overnight. I am giving it all I can.
TH,
That’s all I am trying to do. Peace 
You got it, keep looking and learning. The truth always comes out.
redawn,
I know you do. Your posts show that. In the past I would have dismissed this group jus as many people do by calling you names. I think there is something valid on what you do. Sometimes the socrates in me will question people until that person figures out the answer. Belive me, I don’t see you as an experiment. I truly believe that there is a problem in your area. I think though that the more informed you are the better. That is why I hate to see some of the stats that get posted.
TH,
Thank you and please, if you can ,personal invite - come to one of the Help Save Manassas meetings if you get a chance, it IS NOT what a lot of people think.
I don’t really care exactly how many illegal aliens are in this country. One is too many. Let’s get to work.
Monticup,
I agree, too much time wasted on that. We must TCB
TH
If you come to the HSM meeting you will be sitting in the middle of the tour. Come, early so you can take that tour. Or have you been yet? Please, I’m just wondering, and not trying to start trouble. I think and hope you know that.
TH, because the business has been so effective in carving out protections for business, it’s very difficult to craft effective local solutions to employers hiring illegal aliens that will withstand legal challenge. The recent Hazleton ruling has been appealed, and I am optimistic that it’ll go in our favor. Of course this will probably have to be appealed up the chain for a while, but hopefully that process won’t take too long. When it’s finished, we have proposals ready to roll in multiple jurisdictions provided the rulings go in our favor.
Leila, I am well aware of the content of my post. As well as the fact that these “stats” have shot around the internet like wildefire.
Even, as my post indicated, to the point of having found their way to a congressional web page.
The INS 2006 reference is a dead giveaway given the fact that the INS was dismantled in 2003 to make way for the “new and improved” BICE under DHS authority. So take a look at what the INS was getting ready to set up shortly before it disappeared: http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2003/0127/web-sentel-01-28-03.asp
The funny thing is, the best way to in fact refute these stats would be to provide them from an official government report.
But here is the rub. Even the most rabid open-borders fan can’t provide them for the simple reason that they aren’t kept or are being hidden. So who can we write to under the Freedom of Information Act for the accurate stats? The DHS? DOJ? FBI?
Go to http://www.predatoryaliens.com/html/foi/foi.htm
http://www.cis.org
http://www.fairus.org/site/Pageserver
http://www.lapdonline.org/all_most_wanted
http://www.towncriernews.blogspot.com/
Leila,
Do you agree that even if one American was a victim of a crime committed by an illegal it would be one too many crimes committed by illegals?
I wonder if like our current AG, this border “chief” has friends and or family members who are illegal or were illegals aliens at one time?
Also, I wonder if his surname has any influence on his opinion? I for one am pissed at any illegal regardless of race or ethnicity, but it seems to me many pro-illegal alien folks are of a particular race.
Bridget, can you clarify? Are you saying you think the stats posted under 2006 FBI/INS are correct?
Can you indicate what you wish me to find on the five URLs below? I see four that are anti-illegal alien or anti-immigration more generally (CIS) websites, and then the LAPD most-wanted list, which for the ones I clicked on doesn’t give immigration status. I don’t see anything that substantiates the statistics.
If the statistics aren’t kept, as you suggest as a possibility, then how can the assertions be made in the first place? If they are hidden, again, where did the assertions come from? It appears to be based on Spanish surnames, if anything, and that surely isn’t an accurate guide to legality or illegality in LA County or places like Albuquerque or Phoenix, also always mentioned in the famous stats. If this is an official report of the FBI and (non-existent) INS from 2006, it presumably exists somewhere.
The figures are winding their way around the Net with no citations as usual. It doesn’t surprise me that a Shelby staffer grabbed them. By the way, do you happen to know why the Predatory Aliens person Xs out what he/she Xs out in this supposed public information correspondence? Also, wouldn’t it have been smart to scan in the actual alleged letters?. It, well, is a bit odd to have a situation, for example, where Predatory Aliens tells us something has the logo of the LAPD when they could have provided it by scanning. They should learn from the Smoking Gun how to properly display a document online. Instead, they display something that appears entirely retyped.
COM, I would guess most violent crimes committed by illegal aliens are committed against others in the same immigrant community legal and illegal, usually poor. So the answer is I don’t distinguish Americans as victims, no. Murder is murder, rape is rape, etc. The nationality or legal status of the victim in the United States should not matter.
As for the “one too many” argument, I assume the only reason you aren’t saying that any violent crime is “one too many” is that you view serious crimes committed by illegal aliens as preventable had the borders been enforced. That is true in an elementary sense, but there are problems with it.
1. First, a substantial portion of illegal aliens did not enter illegally but overstayed, so the borders are not to blame if some proportion of those end up being violent criminals. Others, like some of the Newark suspects, may have had their status regularized under TPS so may technically not be illegal. Malkin has written about that. We also don’t appear to really have a problem with allowing murderers and terrorists to enter or stay in the US if it fits our foreign policy goals.
2. More importantly however, making judgments about crime in relation to what could have been prevented is pretty much an open-ended proposition. Native-born Americans commit more violent crime, percentage wise, than illegal aliens. We could prevent vast amounts of that crime by various actions that we choose not to take as a society. So therefore the violent crimes that follow were preventable in a similar if not identical way.
All things being equal, a population of illegal aliens is safer in many ways, however much we would like to deny that. See the Harvard prof’s research cited in this article. I am referring to Robert J. Sampson. Yes it is from Salon, a liberal publication, but it quotes his work in the midst of reporting on a Geraldo/O’Reilly brouhaha.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/04/10/geraldo/index.html
Leila,
All things being equal a population of illegals is safer? I guess you use different definitions of crime when it suits your argument.
I asked about a crime, not if it was a violent crime or not. I did not state if the crime was committed by an illegal who came across the border or if they overstayed a visa. Both are illegal.
CoM: unlawful, but not crimes. I thought we had this pretty well established by now.
NOVA,
Maybe in your liberal World, but not in the real World.
I still want to know how and why cheating the system and benefiting from it is a conservative value.
It does perplex me that identity theft is regarded as a rather serious crime when committed by a citizen, yet illegal aliens are continually getting passes on it. Can you explain that NoVA?
NOVA: “unlawful, but not crimes” - ok, maybe it is because I am drinking water and not coffee this mornning, but can you explain how something can be against the law but NOT a crime???
AWChheney,
If you don’t mind I’d like to answer that.
It is easy, because those that support and or apologize for illegals are only to happen to make up excuses for illegals. “Well if we had a better immigration system, they would not have to resort to such actions just to support their families.” “Other then that, they are just hard working folks doing jobs that Americans refuse to do.” “So, what, we have our own criminals.”
In all seriousness, crimes by illegals are overlooked because they are not held accountable or expected to act normal. It is a case of a liberal low grade racism. The liberals do not believe illegals should be held to the same standards as the rest of us are.
Leila,
I know this is not the thread to put this in… But a couple of weeks ago you seemed to have defended the policies of Hugo Chavez by saying so far there seems to have not been any negative impact due to his socialist policies.
Well, what do you have to say about that now?
CASHING OUT
Venezuelans Chase Dollars Amid Worries Over Economy
Some See Ways to Profit From Chávez’s Controls; A Poker-Chip Maneuver
By JOHN LYONS
August 27, 2007; Page A1
CARACAS, Venezuela—Like many people they know in Caracas these days, Alfred and Norma Muñoz are bracing for what they believe is inevitable: a currency crash brought about by President Hugo Chávez’s policies.
The middle-class couple plan to borrow as much as they can from a local bank and buy an apartment outside the country. If Venezuela’s bolívar plunges against the dollar, they figure, the loan will be cheap to pay off in dollar terms, and the overseas apartment will hold its dollar value. “Plus, it gives you somewhere to flee if things really get bad,” says Mr. Muñoz, who runs a small business.
At the moment, with oil at near record prices, Venezuela’s economy is booming. The fourth-largest oil exporter to the U.S. has averaged 12.6% annual growth since 2004 — the fastest in Latin America. Three-month waits to buy new cars are standard at Caracas dealerships amid a boom in consumer financing. Unemployment has fallen to single-digit rates for the first time in more than a decade.
But there are signs of trouble. Oil production is falling as the state oil company loses top managers and invests less. Inflation is running at 19%, according to the Venezuelan government, though many private economists say the rate is more like 25%, given the increasing role of a black market in hard-to-obtain goods. Partly as a result, the bolívar, officially fixed at 2,150 per dollar, has lost more than half its value on the black market. Many locals fear that official devaluation and runaway inflation is inevitable.
The global credit squeeze caused by mortgage problems in the U.S. may give Venezuelans new reasons to worry. That’s because oil prices could fall if, as some economists fear, a world slowdown in lending leads to a broad economic slump. Declining oil prices would deprive Mr. Chávez of income for his vast social programs and accelerate pressure on the bolívar.
Exasperated Voters
In decades past, currency declines and hyperinflation have reared up across Latin America, destabilizing governments and spreading misery among ordinary people. Indeed, Mr. Chávez’s own rise to power was helped by a financial collapse and soaring inflation under the mid-1990s government of Rafael Caldera, which prompted exasperated voters to back Mr. Chávez in a 1998 election. If such problems emerge again in Venezuela, they could erode Mr. Chávez’s popularity at home, as well as curtail his influence in the region by forcing him to cut back on foreign aid.
While the bolívar is weakening, many other oil nations are watching their currencies get stronger. The explanation for the discrepancy lies, at least in part, in Mr. Chávez’s economic policies. His attempt to manage the economy for the benefit of the poor has produced unforeseen problems, which he has treated with unorthodox solutions that in turn have created new problems. With each policy turn, people like the Muñozes have become more convinced things will spin out of control.
Since 2003, Mr. Chávez has more than doubled government spending on free medical care, higher salaries, gasoline subsidies and other services. That created more demand for goods and services, which fueled inflation. In response, Mr. Chávez expanded price controls, which now cover meat, sugar, eggs, milk and other products. That led to food shortages as producers balked at selling their goods at the mandated prices. The shortages produced a black market, where prices have soared.
This mixture of food shortages, black markets and rising inflation is déjà vu for the Venezuelans who have lived through three financial meltdowns since the 1980s. In the most recent, a collapse of a big bank helped bring on a currency crash and inflation that topped 100% in 1996. To protect themselves from a repeat, Venezuelans are trying to get their hands on dollars, further weakening the bolívar.
“We all know what is coming, we just don’t know when,” says David Macedo, who drives a delivery truck that supplies small grocery stores. When he has a few bolívars saved, he says, he often goes to the Caracas airport to buy dollars from arriving tourists. He pays far more than the official rate of 2,150 bolívars per dollar, but less than the black-market rate, now about 4,800.
Wealthier Venezuelans have discovered they can use credit cards to exploit the difference between official and black-market currency rates. Some have flown to the nearby island of Aruba and bought $5,000 worth of gambling chips, the maximum overseas credit purchase allowed by the Venezuelan government, according to a person who arranges the trips. They cash in the chips for dollars, then, back at home, buy enough bolívars on the black market to pay off the credit-card debt, this person says. They pocket the rest — around $2,300 at current rates, more than enough to pay for the trip.
Once locals start expecting a crisis, it becomes harder for the government to avoid one. If shopkeepers expect inflation-fighting policies to fail, they will try to raise prices no matter what the government does. Such a phenomenon was recently seen in Argentina: In 2001, Argentines who lost confidence in their government’s ability to avoid debt default began withdrawing their bank deposits en masse, ultimately speeding the economic collapse and currency crash they feared.
In Venezuela, Mr. Chávez came to power promising to use the country’s oil wealth to benefit the poor. His economic problems started after a 2002 coup attempt and an oil workers’ strike. The ensuing economic turmoil prompted many Venezuelans to take money out of the country, which threatened to bring down the banking system. Mr. Chávez stopped the capital flight by banning overseas money transfers and dollar purchases.
When oil prices rose, Mr. Chávez sharply increased spending, which helped him win crucial votes in 2004 and 2006. But the capital controls trapped new spending inside Venezuela, more than quadrupling the amount of bolívars in circulation. The bloated money supply undermined the bolívar and fueled inflation.
The Chávez government realizes the dangers and vows to tamp down inflation before it gets out of control. In July, it required banks to pay customers higher interest on deposits, in hopes of making the bolívar more attractive and encouraging savings. But the new rate is only about half the inflation rate. Finance Minister Rodrigo Cabezas says the government will moderate spending for the first time in years and will keep the official exchange rate unchanged at least through 2009. “We have no plans for devaluation,” he says.
Few economists who follow Venezuela are forecasting deep financial trouble, at least while oil prices remain high. Latin American economies generally run aground when they can’t afford to pay their bills for imports and debt service. Venezuela currently does not face this problem.
But the longer-term prognosis is far from clear. Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, a Washington think tank, who is generally supportive of Mr. Chávez, says the government has time to boost economic growth by investing in industries outside the oil sector. Other economists are more skeptical. They contend that the government isn’t making enough long-term investments, such as building factories, and that it remains far too dependent on oil revenue.
“We don’t know when a crash will happen,” says Alberto Ramos, a senior Latin America economist at Goldman Sachs. “But Chávez is driving down the wrong side of the road.”
Many Venezuelans are preparing for the worst. Mr. Chávez’s control of the legislature, courts and military means it’s unlikely the government will alter its current economic course. In mid-August, Mr. Chávez proposed constitutional reforms that would end the autonomy of the country’s central bank and eliminate presidential term limits, a move critics say is his bid to become president for life. At the extreme, concerns about the future have prompted thousands of better-off Venezuelans to leave the country in recent years for Miami and such oil centers as Houston and Alberta, Canada.
Next year, Mr. Chávez plans to relaunch the bolívar, minus three zeros and with a new name: the “strong bolívar.” The plan includes the reintroduction of a 12.5 centavo coin, la locha, a historical throwback to the days of the South American military leader Simón Bolívar, Mr. Chávez’s hero. For months, the government insisted that the currency “reconversion” would solve many of the country’s ills, such as inflation. The plan was widely disparaged, and in July, a senior Chávez official acknowledged that it “will have no primary effect on the inflation phenomenon.”
While inflation always hurts the poor by eating into their purchasing power, some of Mr. Chávez’s policies to curtail it are helping bankers, securities brokers and other wealthy Venezuelans. With capital controls limiting the amount of bolívars that can be transferred abroad, bank deposits have risen sevenfold since 2002. Financial firms have done a brisk business helping Venezuelans get their money out of the country legally through debt swaps. Using bolívars, the customer buys a Venezuelan security that trades on a foreign exchange, then sells that security, taking payment in dollar-denominated debt such as Treasurys. The payment gets deposited in an offshore account.
A Chávez plan to bolster Venezuela’s currency by selling dollar-denominated government bonds has largely backfired. The government figured that asking Venezuelans to buy the bonds with bolívars would take the currency out of circulation, boosting its value. Shrewd buyers realized they could get the dollar bonds from the government at the official exchange rate, then resell them on the official Caracas exchange, where the bonds trade at prices much closer to the currency’s higher black-market rate.
The government tried to give small investors first dibs on the bonds by saying that orders by private individuals for less than $3,000 would be filled first. Brokerage firms paid maids, doormen and laborers about $50 each to sign over their rights to the bonds, says Pedro Torres, a middleman who is paid by brokerages to find working-class Venezuelans willing to turn over their rights to the bonds. He says he signed up 170 for the last bond sale, earlier this year.
Black-Market Rates
Savvy Venezuelans have also used the dollar bonds to speculate against the bolívar. Purchasing bonds with loans from local banks, they sold enough at black-market rates to pay off the loans, pocketing the difference. By exploiting the gap between the central bank’s rate and the market rate, investors have in effect taken free dollars at the expense of Venezuelan reserves.
The downward pressure on the currency doesn’t end there. Because the Chávez administration’s bank regulations have kept loans cheap, Venezuelans have an incentive to borrow not only to buy bonds but other goods as well. They take out loans to buy big-ticket items, such as dishwashers or expensive watches, that will keep their value. These loans, too, pump new cash into circulation, counteracting the government’s anti-inflationary goal.
“Chávez is the first president to publicize, organize and incite a run on his own currency,” said Alejandro Grisanti, an economist who opposes Mr. Chávez. He estimates that at least two-thirds of the government’s last dollar-bond issue was bought on credit, including the ones he bought for himself. Venezuela’s Finance Ministry declined a request for comment.
At a crowded Fiat dealership in Caracas’s posh Las Mercedes neighborhood, would-be buyers add their names to three-month waiting lists. They are so eager to purchase they don’t care what model or color they get, as long as they get it soon, says sales manager Beatríz Machado. Some used Fiats sell for more than new ones because they are available on the spot, she says.
Champagne and Whiskey
“They don’t want a car. They want a place to put their money,” says Ms. Machado, who wears a red blouse and earrings to show her support for Mr. Chávez, whom she credits with helping the poor. She, too, has doubts about the economy, and says she spends her bolívars quickly. Using a bolívar loan, she bought an apartment and a car. Recently, she says, she loaded up on imported champagne and whiskey.
The biggest losers may be the poor, many of whom are Mr. Chávez’s supporters. Antonio Buitrago, a 57-year-old cab driver, credits Mr. Chávez with helping his son to walk again. Last year, after the young man was badly injured in a car crash, the government paid for medical treatment, including a rehabilitation trip to Cuba. “I trust Chávez is going to take care of me,” Mr. Buitrago says.
But Mr. Buitrago says his life is getting more difficult these days. He is among what a local pollster estimates are the 45% of Venezuelans who’ve had trouble finding milk and chicken this year. He can’t afford black-market prices for scarce goods, so he stands in long lines at markets that sell subsidized foods. He deposits his savings in a bank, where it’s being eaten away by inflation, saying buying dollars on the black market would be unpatriotic.
At a recent “Expo Crédito” in Caracas, lines curled around the conference hall. Upper-middle-class Caracas residents waited alongside men in army and fire-rescue uniforms to sign up for credit cards. The conference slogan: “Credit for Everything.”
Denis Naranjo, an engineer, said he’s considering his options. He wants to take out a loan, but isn’t sure whether to buy real estate or cars. What he really needs, he says, is a bank account in the U.S. “In Venezuela, things are always changing,” he explains. “You need to have a plan, and you need to be flexible.”
AWC: You know why liberals are illegal alien apologists? Your basic liberal hates this country. Liberalism is the “ism” of the depressed, and in this country, the Democrat party is the party of the depressed. Liberals hate themselves, but need to blame it on everyone else, hence they strike out at the rest of the country. Anything that is bad for this country, Liberals like. Uncontrolled, unfettered immigration is bad for this country. Liberals love it. Crime is bad for the country. Hence the liberals’ love for criminals. Interference with commerce is bad for the country. Hence the liberals love for over-regulation.
When you view politics through a psychological prism, it all makes sense. Cure depression (really cure it, not just treat it with the drug du jour), and you’ll make liberalism go away. Increase depression with increased dependence on drugs (e.g. ritalin in elementary school), and you create more liberals.
Liberals= http://www.prosoundweb.com/fun/Photofun/76-head_up_ass.jpg
And I thought the Border Patrol’s job was to secure our borders? Silly me!
And how do they propose to filter out the illegal border jumpers from the terrorists? Ask them if they are terrorists, and if they say no, then just let them through?
Their job is to stop everyone who tries enter illegally. Rather than make a determination about who is or isn’t a threat, send them back so that they go through proper channels to migrate. That way, their immagration application will undergo a proper review, and the terrorists will (I hope) be filtered out through the application process. Now don’t jump on me for suggesting this will stop terrorists, because I know that some will still slip through. But having Border Control do their best to stop all illegal crossings so that migrants undergo an application does help weed out some terrorists. This seems like a much more reasonable approach than ignoring the border crossers.
Anon, I thought Advocator had reach the nadir, but you beat him. Can we get any lower?
Why does Carlos X. Carrillo still have a job?
Anonymous, sorry to only have seen your post from this morning. I don’t recall defending Chavez’s policies anywhere. You must be mistaking me for someone else.
COM, sorry for only seeing your post now. You originally wrote:
“Leila,
Do you agree that even if one American was a victim of a crime committed by an illegal it would be one too many crimes committed by illegals?”
This was directed to me after a long discussion of warrants in LA and other cities for murder. I didn’t realize you didn’t mean a violent crime or I wouldn’t have used the term “safer” since what I was referring to was the fact that illegal aliens commit a lower percentage of violent crimes than native-born Americans.
Now despite that lengthy context, you are now saying you were not asking about violent crime, but any kind of crime. Since I am fairly sure you break Virginia law, as almost all of us do, I am not quite sure how to answer a question about *any* sort of crime without specifying as to the seriousness. I guess I am not as concerned as you are, my fellow lawbreaker, about any form of “crime” whatsoever.
Lelia,
You assume I break the law, but not the illegals. Just exactly how do you think I break the law? You go out of your way to not insult illegals, but dump on legal Native Americans. Again, you have no shame, and are more self loathing then I first thought.
So, I suppose you would not mind if the KKK went around rounding up any and all minorities? Or, if women who obtained abortions were tossed into jail?
I always knew liberals were a bit funny in the brain, but you really amaze me….
Are you ignoring my other post directed at you?
COM, I assume you break the law in Virginia or other US jurisdictions, but I may of course be wrong. If you can say you have never done any of the following, then please accept my deepest apologies for calling you a fellow lawbreaker.
Neglected to formally declare and pay the mandated Va. state sales tax on every single Net or external purchase thereby denying the state money to which it is by LAW entitled; exceeded a posted speed limit; jaywalked; had a drink of alcohol before you were of legal age; had in your possession a cigarette before you were of legal age; cohabited with anyone you were not married; committed fornication, ie. had sex outside of marriage, before Virginia invalidated that law in 2005 or committed any other sex act against Virginia law before the reversals forced by Lawrence v. Texas, including heterosexual oral sex. I could go on, but these are the fairly normal everyday forms of law breaking that come quickly to mind.
Depraved wretch that I am, I cannot claim to be innocent of all the above. So, I’m afraid I cannot claim, as perhaps you can, not to be a lawbreaker.
If you could tell me where the other post is that you say you directed to me, I can take a look at it. I am sorry if I missed it.
Leila,
Sorry, your argument does not work. Illegals are breaking the law at all times and continue to break even more laws when working, when obtaining a driver license, etc, etc. To compare that to someone who might drive over the speed limit for a short period of time is not only stupid, but wrong.
I posted an article in this thread regarding Socialist Hugo Chavez. In another thread you said his policies were not hurting his Country. So, I guess there goes another one of your liberal POVs down the drain.
I forgot to add…. Why do you think it is OK for illegals to commit crimes against Americans and legal immigrants?
COM, you posted again at this late hour, but for some reason you neglected to mention whether or not you had broken any of those laws I listed. I trust you will do so soon.
To answer your *added* question, I don’t think it is ok for illegal aliens to commit crimes against American citizens, native or naturalized, or legal resident aliens. I also don’t think it is ok for those groups to commit crimes against illegal aliens, as also happens. But I think it is ludicrous to treat every example of lawbreaking by anyone as equivalent.
The issue of illegal immigration has caused problems for all three populations. I have never denied that. I just have different solutions than you do.
Leila,
It was not an added question.
If you think it is ludicrous to treat every example of lawbreaking by anyone as equivalent, why do you compare illegals to every day Americans?
I have been ticketed for speeding in the past, and I paid the penalty for it. However, as I pointed out, an illegal is in a state of constant law breaking, since they are here illegally.
What is your solution to the illegal alien issue?
Also, what about the article I posted?
COM is speeding the only law among on the list you have broken? You are remarkable indeed.
So you fill out the forms to declare and pay the required sales tax on Net and out of state purchases for example? I ask because taxes are a big issue here are they not? And aren’t you “constantly” in violation of the tax laws if you haven’t paid them? It is not like speeding. You don’t mitigate breaking the tax laws if you slow down. There is nothing temporary about it. You still owe them.
Under federal law, illegal entry into the United States is a misdemeanor. It can become a felony after repetition, but not even automatically. But you are right, the actions of illegal aliens make them constant lawbreakers. Some break far fewer laws than others. Not all get driver’s licenses, some are part of a cash underground economy just like many native-born Americans are, so aren’t using fake work papers. But others do violate all sorts of new laws after the initial misdemeanor, as do their employers. I don’t blame the workers more than the employers, I blame them far less. I would like to see a fair, humane solution that admits to the economic realities of all concerned.
I didn’t realize you were the Anonymous who posted the Chavez article. Exactly how I could have known that was you? Why were you posting under Anon anyway? In any case, I replied to the Anonymous above already. I guess you didn’t notice. I have never said Chavez’s socialist policies were not hurting his country. I wouldn’t say that because I haven’t formed any set opinions yet on him. Some things about him bother me very much, others do not. I do think policies aside, he is a buffoon, and the famous sulphur thing was just dumb.
So either you have mistaken me for someone else or you are misremembering something. It happens. I have already had such mistaken identity happen to me several times here.
I realize it may be hard to believe, but all of us commie pinko scum are not interchangeable.
Leila,
Sorry, my laptop has a virus protection program on it that runs automatically and sometimes it resets cookies, so I did not catch that my “name” was listed.
You claimed in another thread that we needed to sit back and watch what happens with Chavez. Well, I guess we did not have to wait long.
The few times I have purchased items over the internet, I have paid taxes on the purchase.
I like to blame both the illegal and the people who hire them. Both are breaking the law, and both realize what they are doing.
Why do you use Native-born Americans as opposed to Native Americans? Do you really think American Indians did not immigrate to America?
Correction— Immigrate to North America.
Awwww come on! Pre-historic immigration shouldn’t count. For the record, if I ever say Native Americans in a post, I mean Indians.
Dolph,
I realize there are folks who use the term Native American in place of American Indian, but I always wonder what is the difference between someone born here and a “Native American”?
Therefore, since we all know the American Indians immigrated here, and did not just spring up from the Earth, it is incorrect to use the term Native American in an attempt to suggest they somehow are the only ones who are “Native” to North America.
The Washington Times reports that sector chief Carlos X. Carillo has apologized for saying the agency’s mission is stopping terrorists, not illegal aliens or drug smugglers, a stance that outraged congressional lawmakers.
Tancredo isn’t buying it. He’s called for Carillo’s resignation. Story here:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070828/NATION/108280036/1001
COM, I use American Indians when referring to the contemporary descendants of the first peoples in North America. I don’t use Native American for them because it seems odd to me that in the interests of political correctness, people ignore that such politically important organizations as AIM chose the AI not the NA. I take my usage from AIM and from folks like the brilliant writer Sherman Alexie or the media outlet Indian Country.
http://www.indiancountry.com/
I wouldn’t call it immigration, but migration, in terms of what happened in the prehistoric era, presumably across an icy landbridge on the Bering Strait. But of course I think it happened. I am a bit confused as to why you think I wouldn’t think it happened. You make rather bizarre suppositions at times COM. Do I appear to be someone so unscientific as to think American Indians sprang up here in the Americas like Athena from the head of Zeus? Human origins are, as far as we know, in Africa, so everyone migrated and we are all relatives. I know Indian peoples have myths of local creation, but I don’t subscribe to them, anymore than I subscribe to the views of the many Republican presidential candidates who don’t believe in evolution.
Exactly when migration happened is still up to some scholarly debate since periodically a new PaleoIndian site is discovered that pushes the date backwards by thousands of years. I say migration because of the fact that the groups were likely wandering, not moving with intent to cross continents. Immigration is a more formal term and makes little sense in the prehistoric context.
I use native-born American at times on this blog or elsewhere because it is more specific. It also has a historical significance since nativism was a major political movement that for some people has been revived. There is, as I am sure you know, a mass movement that wants to drastically limit ALL immigration to the United States. The immigrants who were wholly legal in the Ellis Island era found themselves attacked with precisely the same kinds of charges launched against those illegal today (and sometimes against those who are legal aliens). Ie. they aren’t assimilating or learning English fast enough, they are taking jobs from native-born Americans, they are dirty, they have too many children, they are bringing too much of a particular religion (read non-Protestant) to these shores, they are political suspect, usually Red, they overcrowd their lodgings, etc. etc. It didn’t matter a bit that they were legal. I would say that can be true today as well, although the nativists of the past were often much more violent. They burned down Catholic churches etc, they lynched at will.
But mainly I just use native-born, on occasion, for specificity, or I say American citizens, born and naturalized. We have three groups present in the US currently in terms of legal status (excluding visitors of course). We have citizens, legal resident aliens, and illegal aliens. I don’t see a problem in moving around in terminology. I don’t use the term “illegals” as many of you do, because it isn’t proper or literate English. I don’t use the term “undocumented worker” here, because it is a euphemism basically.
I don’t think that I said in another thread that we should “sit back” and watch what happens in Venezuela. Again I think you have me confused with other commie pinko scum. It doesn’t sound like something I would write and it also differs from what you initially claimed I said, which was that Chavez’s policies are not hurting his country, which is a rather grand claim indeed and one I don’t feel I would have had the information to make. In any case, I believe I have answered what I think of Chavez.
I am indeed heartened that on your Va state tax forms you have declared and filled out the state sales tax owed for all Net purchases. You didn’t mention out of state purchases by other means, but I will assume that you did those on your tax forms as well. I note too that apparently you have done none of the other things on the list. You have only broken the law speeding.
You had no sex outside marriage before 2005 or in marriage during that period committed any sex act illegal in Va., which is many of them, you never drank alcohol underage, you never held a cigarette in your under-18 hands, etc. etc. It is quite impressive. Compared to you I am quite the debauched libertine.
I commend you. Your feminine virtue is indeed of another age, quite a far other age in fact. Truly remarkable.
Lelia,
If you don’t believe the Indians sprang from the Earth here in North America, why make the distinction between them and other Native Americans who were born here? Yet, you do. And, it should not take you three paragraphs to explain it. What is it with you liberals? Do you like wasting words as much as y’all like wasting public money?
I told you your argument does not work, and you admitted much in a previous post, so why are you still trying to compare an illegal alien to other people? Unless one is in the constant state of having sex, they are not breaking the law like an illegal. If, though they are caught breaking the law, they of course will have to pay the price for their law breaking. Yet, it seems you and others who support illegals want to excuse their law breaking and want to hold them to a different standard from the rest of us. Yet, in the same breath y’all say you want illegals to be treated just like everyone else. Please tell me how you want them to be treated.
Also, I seem to recall asking you to name what elected officials, civic leaders, etc, are openly supporting other law breakers.
Here is a part of a post of yours from another thread.
First, foreign policy, as I made clear, is not a primary reason for how I feel about illegal aliens, or the reason I think most illegal aliens come here. Not at all. That is why I used the words poetic justice. I didn’t suggest any causal relationship, I suggested instead a kind of compensation for the past. The language of “drives people” is yours not mine.
Second, I don’t see a lot of Venezuelans here in the US, do you? I do see a lot of Cubans, but they get to be legal no matter what basically, wet foot/dry foot, whatever foot. So I am not quite sure about the leftist gov leads to illegal alien issue. But feel free to elaborate.
COM, If I were to use the term native American to refer to anyone born here, it would not be capped the way you choose to write it. Standard usage only caps both Native and American to refer to American Indians. I am sorry I don’t wish to adopt your nonstandard coinage for native-born Americans, and there is no reason you should feel compelled to force someone to use the terms you prefer to use. I am not making any distinction between Indians being native-born and non-Indians being native-born, because I don’t use the term Native American at all.
I answered your question about politicians before. I referred to leaders who supported the Freedom Riders and others in the civil-rights movement who broke segregationist law and went to jail, as well as politicians and civic leaders who supported the antiwar movement in the 60s, which also involved breaking laws and going to jail. I guess you know none of their names. That is kind of shocking since the history of those decades is taught in public school. Can I ask where you attended school that you didn’t learn about the protest movements or about things like Kennedy brothers’ involvement in supporting the Freedom Riders, to take just one example. It is really too bad what goes on in our schools.
My phrase you quoted above with “So I am not quite sure about the leftist gov leads to illegal alien issue” does not resemble anything you attributed to me in this thread.
It does not suggest that we “sit back” and wait to see what happens in Venezuela, it does not say Chavez’s socialist policies haven’t hurt his country. Chavez’s policies could very well hurt his country without creating any new illegal aliens in the United States. It simply said that I was NOT SURE about the thesis that a leftist government leads to OUR illegal alien issue in the United States. The countries that supply most illegal aliens from Latin America are not leftist governments, not even close. None of what I wrote states or even implies that I approve of Chavez, or Castro for that matter. I am not fond of presidents for life or those aspiring to be.
I never said that fornication or other sex acts deemed illegal in Virginia until Law v. Tex was breaking the law constantly. I used taxation. You are breaking the law constantly if you haven’t declared on a Va. state tax form the sales tax for every Net or out of state purchase and paid it. But you stated that you do pay all such taxes in the above manner required, so no worries. You apparently have only broken speeding laws, never tax laws or sex laws, or underage drinking laws.
You ask how I want illegal aliens to be treated. I assume you mean on a national-policy level? I can explain what sort of solutions I would like, but I doubt very much you are interested or wish to take the time since it might involve too many words. I can only suggest that given the format of the comments section, there is a simple way to avoid my words.
Leila,
You don’t need to give me a history lesson, but I suppose given that you are a liberal, you feel it is your God(Sorry, I realize most of you liberals do not believe in God) given right to take the elitist attitude that anyone who is not a loony lefty just is not smart, and therefore, needs to be educated.
By whose standards should Native American be capped when referring to American Indians? Those of the PC police who attempt to make a distinction where there should be none?
Again, if there is not difference, it should be a term that can be used to describe anyone born here.
If speaking out against the war is a crime, I suppose you would have referenced our current war, instead of attempting to use a war from forty years ago.
I did not think protesting as in the case of the freedom riders was against the law and apparently neither did they or the Supreme court……
Nearly a decade and a half later, John F. Kennedy was elected president, in large part due to widespread support among blacks who believed that Kennedy was more sympathetic to the civil rights movement than his opponent, Richard Nixon. Once in office, however, Kennedy proved less committed to the movement than he had appeared during the campaign. To test the president’s commitment to civil rights, CORE proposed a new Journey of Reconciliation, dubbed the “Freedom Ride.” The strategy was the same: an interracial group would board buses destined for the South. The whites would sit in the back and the blacks in the front. At rest stops, the whites would go into blacks-only areas and vice versa. “This was not civil disobedience, really,” explained CORE director James Farmer, “because we [were] merely doing what the Supreme Court said we had a right to do.” But the Freedom Riders expected to meet resistance. “We felt we could count on the racists of the South to create a crisis so that the federal government would be compelled to enforce the law,” said Farmer. “When we began the ride I think all of us were prepared for as much violence as could be thrown at us. We were prepared for the possibility of death.”
Please do tell what your policy is. It should be pretty simple to spell out, either deport or grant amnesty for those already here.
COM, A lot of liberals believe in God. Assuming they don’t just to craft an insult of some sort is kind of pathetic.
The Freedom Riders and other civil rights activists before and after them broke state laws and ended up in jail. Many long before the Supreme Court weighed in. Many antiwar protesters broke federal and state laws and ended up in jail. Some politicians supported both groups. The laws were in effect in the jurisdictions where the protesters were put in jail. I spoke of the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War because that is how I answered your question before when you asked it. Certainly there is resistance to the current unnecessary war, but not on any of that kind of scale. Plus without a draft, a major method of breaking the law in protest was removed. You appear to think that only speech was involved in protesting the Vietnam War and thus it was protected. Sorry Vietnam is such is ancient history. I don’t think of ancient something that ended for the United States less than 40 years ago and is still affecting our society, military, and foreign policy, not to mention the vets. I guess you can’t even imagine the relevance of turn of the 20th-century century nativism. That is practically classical Greece right? My apologies, I don’t think that way. I read today’s news and yesterday’s history all the time because I am interested and because they are connected.
The non-capping of native American to refer to anyone born here has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with the standard rules of capitalization for ethnicities, which the term as Native American grew to identify. Those rules of capitalization predate the term. Take it up with someone else, preferably the writers of the various language manuals used in academe, journalism, and book publishing. I can give you several titles of the most famous ones if you would like. I do know English common usage, I don’t use the term Native American for American Indian anyway, so it isn’t my concern.
Since you appear to think the only possible policy toward illegal aliens is mass deportation or mass amnesty, there is no point in outlining anything else since my ideas don’t fit your two extremes and can’t be summarized in the couple of words you require.
Leila,
I do not consider the Vietnam war to be ancient history, you assume I do and of course you are wrong again. Again, I would suggest using something more current rather then in the past though you are wrong, it would at least provide a sense of current events.
I am very aware of the Vietnam war given that my father served two tours there while you liberals were making fools of yourself, and showing just how unpatriotic the left really is. Support the troops not the war, is such a great solgan… Figures it was invented by a liberal.
As a student of history, I would suggest I know more about the history of this Nation then most, so again, you can keep you cheap liberal elitist crap to yourself. More and more I understand why you moved away from your home—you simply believe you are better then the folks who live there and therefore, simply cannot be seen around the common folk.
I am very much aware of the connection of the Vietnam war and exactly how much damage the left did to the military. Just look at the major news media and how they have treated our current war. It is exactly why we need to stay the course in Iraq. Of course to you liberals, you don’t mind if our military is weak, and our standing in the World is weak. That of course makes us just like every other Country in the World, and ties in the big lie the left likes to push, that every Country is equal and every culture is equal. Of course that is BS given how many people want to come to America and how very few people want to leave America.
Given that illegals kill, rape, and rob, I would hardly suggest any elected official, Civic Leader etc would engage in the same support of such folks if they were indeed not illegal.
So, proclaiming American Indians to be Native Americans has nothing to do with Political correctness? Hmmm, I seem to recall while attending public school we used the term Indians, now of course that is not the case for the most part. Why is that? Are you saying book publishers etc refuse to use pc terms? Maybe you should follow exactly what is going on with the publishers of high school text books. Because California has such a large student population(in other words, they order a lot of books) they have a lot of say in exactly what goes in these text books, and since the land of the fruits and nuts is a liberal waste land, political correctness is very much in use.
Well, why should we not deport people who broke our immigration laws? Oh, let me guess, you would grant amnesty to some but not to all. I seem to recall at least one of the men involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombings were able to receive Citizenship under the 1986 amnesty. So, how do we really know who to grant amnesty to or who not to?
Do we take the word of people who have used multiple identities such as the murder suspect from the Manassas murder a couple of weeks ago? Or do we do the same thing and deport all illegals as they come into contact with law enforcement?
Leila,
Before Greg pulls the plug on this thread lets just wrap it up. While it is fun to banter, we are quickly moving off topic. I just want to thank you for realizing illegals are in a constant state of law breaking just by being in the Country, and that illegals need to be deported, even though I believe you do not think all of them deserve to be.
COM,
I disagree that it is incorrect to use the term Native American to mean Indian. They were/are the aboriginal people of the Americas.
The most compelling reason to use Native American for Indians and not for others is that it is just generally accepted by most of society. No one has to guess who or what you are talking about.
As for migration in general, you could make the argument that all people living outside of Africa migrated.
Dolph,
It is wrong to use that term for two reasons. Native confers one is a Native of a particular Nation, State etc. You, me and others born in America are in fact Native Americans. I am a Native of America.
That is why it is better to use the term American Indian rather then Native American, that way people can make the difference between people who were born here, and people who were born here but happen to be of American Indian heritage, since American Indian is not considered an ethnicity.
Dolph,
I would add that many news outlets and other sources of information use the term undocumented worker, etc to describe an illegal alien. Using your analogy from above, I suppose we should stop using the term illegal alien, since it clearly is wrong.