I would add that many news outlets and other sources of information use the term undocumented worker, etc to describe an illegal alien. Using your analogy from above, I suppose we should stop using the term illegal alien, since it clearly is wrong.

It is wrong to use that term for two reasons. Native confers one is a Native of a particular Nation, State etc. You, me and others born in America are in fact Native Americans. I am a Native of America.

That is why it is better to use the term American Indian rather then Native American, that way people can make the difference between people who were born here, and people who were born here but happen to be of American Indian heritage, since American Indian is not considered an ethnicity.

I disagree that it is incorrect to use the term Native American to mean Indian. They were/are the aboriginal people of the Americas.

The most compelling reason to use Native American for Indians and not for others is that it is just generally accepted by most of society. No one has to guess who or what you are talking about.

As for migration in general, you could make the argument that all people living outside of Africa migrated.

Before Greg pulls the plug on this thread lets just wrap it up. While it is fun to banter, we are quickly moving off topic. I just want to thank you for realizing illegals are in a constant state of law breaking just by being in the Country, and that illegals need to be deported, even though I believe you do not think all of them deserve to be.

I do not consider the Vietnam war to be ancient history, you assume I do and of course you are wrong again. Again, I would suggest using something more current rather then in the past though you are wrong, it would at least provide a sense of current events.

I am very aware of the Vietnam war given that my father served two tours there while you liberals were making fools of yourself, and showing just how unpatriotic the left really is. Support the troops not the war, is such a great solgan… Figures it was invented by a liberal.

As a student of history, I would suggest I know more about the history of this Nation then most, so again, you can keep you cheap liberal elitist crap to yourself. More and more I understand why you moved away from your home—you simply believe you are better then the folks who live there and therefore, simply cannot be seen around the common folk.

I am very much aware of the connection of the Vietnam war and exactly how much damage the left did to the military. Just look at the major news media and how they have treated our current war. It is exactly why we need to stay the course in Iraq. Of course to you liberals, you don’t mind if our military is weak, and our standing in the World is weak. That of course makes us just like every other Country in the World, and ties in the big lie the left likes to push, that every Country is equal and every culture is equal. Of course that is BS given how many people want to come to America and how very few people want to leave America.

Given that illegals kill, rape, and rob, I would hardly suggest any elected official, Civic Leader etc would engage in the same support of such folks if they were indeed not illegal.

So, proclaiming American Indians to be Native Americans has nothing to do with Political correctness? Hmmm, I seem to recall while attending public school we used the term Indians, now of course that is not the case for the most part. Why is that? Are you saying book publishers etc refuse to use pc terms? Maybe you should follow exactly what is going on with the publishers of high school text books. Because California has such a large student population(in other words, they order a lot of books) they have a lot of say in exactly what goes in these text books, and since the land of the fruits and nuts is a liberal waste land, political correctness is very much in use.

Well, why should we not deport people who broke our immigration laws? Oh, let me guess, you would grant amnesty to some but not to all. I seem to recall at least one of the men involved in the 1993 World Trade Center bombings were able to receive Citizenship under the 1986 amnesty. So, how do we really know who to grant amnesty to or who not to?

Do we take the word of people who have used multiple identities such as the murder suspect from the Manassas murder a couple of weeks ago? Or do we do the same thing and deport all illegals as they come into contact with law enforcement?

The Freedom Riders and other civil rights activists before and after them broke state laws and ended up in jail. Many long before the Supreme Court weighed in. Many antiwar protesters broke federal and state laws and ended up in jail. Some politicians supported both groups. The laws were in effect in the jurisdictions where the protesters were put in jail. I spoke of the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War because that is how I answered your question before when you asked it. Certainly there is resistance to the current unnecessary war, but not on any of that kind of scale. Plus without a draft, a major method of breaking the law in protest was removed. You appear to think that only speech was involved in protesting the Vietnam War and thus it was protected. Sorry Vietnam is such is ancient history. I don’t think of ancient something that ended for the United States less than 40 years ago and is still affecting our society, military, and foreign policy, not to mention the vets. I guess you can’t even imagine the relevance of turn of the 20th-century century nativism. That is practically classical Greece right? My apologies, I don’t think that way. I read today’s news and yesterday’s history all the time because I am interested and because they are connected.

The non-capping of native American to refer to anyone born here has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with the standard rules of capitalization for ethnicities, which the term as Native American grew to identify. Those rules of capitalization predate the term. Take it up with someone else, preferably the writers of the various language manuals used in academe, journalism, and book publishing. I can give you several titles of the most famous ones if you would like. I do know English common usage, I don’t use the term Native American for American Indian anyway, so it isn’t my concern.

Since you appear to think the only possible policy toward illegal aliens is mass deportation or mass amnesty, there is no point in outlining anything else since my ideas don’t fit your two extremes and can’t be summarized in the couple of words you require.

You don’t need to give me a history lesson, but I suppose given that you are a liberal, you feel it is your God(Sorry, I realize most of you liberals do not believe in God) given right to take the elitist attitude that anyone who is not a loony lefty just is not smart, and therefore, needs to be educated.

By whose standards should Native American be capped when referring to American Indians? Those of the PC police who attempt to make a distinction where there should be none?

Again, if there is not difference, it should be a term that can be used to describe anyone born here.

If speaking out against the war is a crime, I suppose you would have referenced our current war, instead of attempting to use a war from forty years ago.

I did not think protesting as in the case of the freedom riders was against the law and apparently neither did they or the Supreme court……

Nearly a decade and a half later, John F. Kennedy was elected president, in large part due to widespread support among blacks who believed that Kennedy was more sympathetic to the civil rights movement than his opponent, Richard Nixon. Once in office, however, Kennedy proved less committed to the movement than he had appeared during the campaign. To test the president’s commitment to civil rights, CORE proposed a new Journey of Reconciliation, dubbed the “Freedom Ride.” The strategy was the same: an interracial group would board buses destined for the South. The whites would sit in the back and the blacks in the front. At rest stops, the whites would go into blacks-only areas and vice versa. “This was not civil disobedience, really,” explained CORE director James Farmer, “because we [were] merely doing what the Supreme Court said we had a right to do.” But the Freedom Riders expected to meet resistance. “We felt we could count on the racists of the South to create a crisis so that the federal government would be compelled to enforce the law,” said Farmer. “When we began the ride I think all of us were prepared for as much violence as could be thrown at us. We were prepared for the possibility of death.”

Please do tell what your policy is. It should be pretty simple to spell out, either deport or grant amnesty for those already here.

I answered your question about politicians before. I referred to leaders who supported the Freedom Riders and others in the civil-rights movement who broke segregationist law and went to jail, as well as politicians and civic leaders who supported the antiwar movement in the 60s, which also involved breaking laws and going to jail. I guess you know none of their names. That is kind of shocking since the history of those decades is taught in public school. Can I ask where you attended school that you didn’t learn about the protest movements or about things like Kennedy brothers’ involvement in supporting the Freedom Riders, to take just one example. It is really too bad what goes on in our schools.

My phrase you quoted above with “So I am not quite sure about the leftist gov leads to illegal alien issue” does not resemble anything you attributed to me in this thread.

It does not suggest that we “sit back” and wait to see what happens in Venezuela, it does not say Chavez’s socialist policies haven’t hurt his country. Chavez’s policies could very well hurt his country without creating any new illegal aliens in the United States. It simply said that I was NOT SURE about the thesis that a leftist government leads to OUR illegal alien issue in the United States. The countries that supply most illegal aliens from Latin America are not leftist governments, not even close. None of what I wrote states or even implies that I approve of Chavez, or Castro for that matter. I am not fond of presidents for life or those aspiring to be.

I never said that fornication or other sex acts deemed illegal in Virginia until Law v. Tex was breaking the law constantly. I used taxation. You are breaking the law constantly if you haven’t declared on a Va. state tax form the sales tax for every Net or out of state purchase and paid it. But you stated that you do pay all such taxes in the above manner required, so no worries. You apparently have only broken speeding laws, never tax laws or sex laws, or underage drinking laws.

You ask how I want illegal aliens to be treated. I assume you mean on a national-policy level? I can explain what sort of solutions I would like, but I doubt very much you are interested or wish to take the time since it might involve too many words. I can only suggest that given the format of the comments section, there is a simple way to avoid my words.

If you don’t believe the Indians sprang from the Earth here in North America, why make the distinction between them and other Native Americans who were born here? Yet, you do. And, it should not take you three paragraphs to explain it. What is it with you liberals? Do you like wasting words as much as y’all like wasting public money?

I told you your argument does not work, and you admitted much in a previous post, so why are you still trying to compare an illegal alien to other people? Unless one is in the constant state of having sex, they are not breaking the law like an illegal. If, though they are caught breaking the law, they of course will have to pay the price for their law breaking. Yet, it seems you and others who support illegals want to excuse their law breaking and want to hold them to a different standard from the rest of us. Yet, in the same breath y’all say you want illegals to be treated just like everyone else. Please tell me how you want them to be treated.

Also, I seem to recall asking you to name what elected officials, civic leaders, etc, are openly supporting other law breakers.

Here is a part of a post of yours from another thread.

First, foreign policy, as I made clear, is not a primary reason for how I feel about illegal aliens, or the reason I think most illegal aliens come here. Not at all. That is why I used the words poetic justice. I didn’t suggest any causal relationship, I suggested instead a kind of compensation for the past. The language of “drives people” is yours not mine.

Second, I don’t see a lot of Venezuelans here in the US, do you? I do see a lot of Cubans, but they get to be legal no matter what basically, wet foot/dry foot, whatever foot. So I am not quite sure about the leftist gov leads to illegal alien issue. But feel free to elaborate.

http://www.indiancountry.com/

I wouldn’t call it immigration, but migration, in terms of what happened in the prehistoric era, presumably across an icy landbridge on the Bering Strait. But of course I think it happened. I am a bit confused as to why you think I wouldn’t think it happened. You make rather bizarre suppositions at times COM. Do I appear to be someone so unscientific as to think American Indians sprang up here in the Americas like Athena from the head of Zeus? Human origins are, as far as we know, in Africa, so everyone migrated and we are all relatives. I know Indian peoples have myths of local creation, but I don’t subscribe to them, anymore than I subscribe to the views of the many Republican presidential candidates who don’t believe in evolution.

Exactly when migration happened is still up to some scholarly debate since periodically a new PaleoIndian site is discovered that pushes the date backwards by thousands of years. I say migration because of the fact that the groups were likely wandering, not moving with intent to cross continents. Immigration is a more formal term and makes little sense in the prehistoric context.

I use native-born American at times on this blog or elsewhere because it is more specific. It also has a historical significance since nativism was a major political movement that for some people has been revived. There is, as I am sure you know, a mass movement that wants to drastically limit ALL immigration to the United States. The immigrants who were wholly legal in the Ellis Island era found themselves attacked with precisely the same kinds of charges launched against those illegal today (and sometimes against those who are legal aliens). Ie. they aren’t assimilating or learning English fast enough, they are taking jobs from native-born Americans, they are dirty, they have too many children, they are bringing too much of a particular religion (read non-Protestant) to these shores, they are political suspect, usually Red, they overcrowd their lodgings, etc. etc. It didn’t matter a bit that they were legal. I would say that can be true today as well, although the nativists of the past were often much more violent. They burned down Catholic churches etc, they lynched at will.

But mainly I just use native-born, on occasion, for specificity, or I say American citizens, born and naturalized. We have three groups present in the US currently in terms of legal status (excluding visitors of course). We have citizens, legal resident aliens, and illegal aliens. I don’t see a problem in moving around in terminology. I don’t use the term “illegals” as many of you do, because it isn’t proper or literate English. I don’t use the term “undocumented worker” here, because it is a euphemism basically.

I don’t think that I said in another thread that we should “sit back” and watch what happens in Venezuela. Again I think you have me confused with other commie pinko scum. It doesn’t sound like something I would write and it also differs from what you initially claimed I said, which was that Chavez’s policies are not hurting his country, which is a rather grand claim indeed and one I don’t feel I would have had the information to make. In any case, I believe I have answered what I think of Chavez.

I am indeed heartened that on your Va state tax forms you have declared and filled out the state sales tax owed for all Net purchases. You didn’t mention out of state purchases by other means, but I will assume that you did those on your tax forms as well. I note too that apparently you have done none of the other things on the list. You have only broken the law speeding.

You had no sex outside marriage before 2005 or in marriage during that period committed any sex act illegal in Va., which is many of them, you never drank alcohol underage, you never held a cigarette in your under-18 hands, etc. etc. It is quite impressive. Compared to you I am quite the debauched libertine.

I commend you. Your feminine virtue is indeed of another age, quite a far other age in fact. Truly remarkable.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070828/NATION/108280036/1001

I realize there are folks who use the term Native American in place of American Indian, but I always wonder what is the difference between someone born here and a “Native American”?

Therefore, since we all know the American Indians immigrated here, and did not just spring up from the Earth, it is incorrect to use the term Native American in an attempt to suggest they somehow are the only ones who are “Native” to North America.

Sorry, my laptop has a virus protection program on it that runs automatically and sometimes it resets cookies, so I did not catch that my “name” was listed.

You claimed in another thread that we needed to sit back and watch what happens with Chavez. Well, I guess we did not have to wait long.

The few times I have purchased items over the internet, I have paid taxes on the purchase.

I like to blame both the illegal and the people who hire them. Both are breaking the law, and both realize what they are doing.

Why do you use Native-born Americans as opposed to Native Americans? Do you really think American Indians did not immigrate to America?

So you fill out the forms to declare and pay the required sales tax on Net and out of state purchases for example? I ask because taxes are a big issue here are they not? And aren’t you “constantly” in violation of the tax laws if you haven’t paid them? It is not like speeding. You don’t mitigate breaking the tax laws if you slow down. There is nothing temporary about it. You still owe them.

Under federal law, illegal entry into the United States is a misdemeanor. It can become a felony after repetition, but not even automatically. But you are right, the actions of illegal aliens make them constant lawbreakers. Some break far fewer laws than others. Not all get driver’s licenses, some are part of a cash underground economy just like many native-born Americans are, so aren’t using fake work papers. But others do violate all sorts of new laws after the initial misdemeanor, as do their employers. I don’t blame the workers more than the employers, I blame them far less. I would like to see a fair, humane solution that admits to the economic realities of all concerned.

I didn’t realize you were the Anonymous who posted the Chavez article. Exactly how I could have known that was you? Why were you posting under Anon anyway? In any case, I replied to the Anonymous above already. I guess you didn’t notice. I have never said Chavez’s socialist policies were not hurting his country. I wouldn’t say that because I haven’t formed any set opinions yet on him. Some things about him bother me very much, others do not. I do think policies aside, he is a buffoon, and the famous sulphur thing was just dumb.

So either you have mistaken me for someone else or you are misremembering something. It happens. I have already had such mistaken identity happen to me several times here.

I realize it may be hard to believe, but all of us commie pinko scum are not interchangeable.

It was not an added question.

If you think it is ludicrous to treat every example of lawbreaking by anyone as equivalent, why do you compare illegals to every day Americans?

I have been ticketed for speeding in the past, and I paid the penalty for it. However, as I pointed out, an illegal is in a state of constant law breaking, since they are here illegally.

What is your solution to the illegal alien issue?

Also, what about the article I posted?

To answer your *added* question, I don’t think it is ok for illegal aliens to commit crimes against American citizens, native or naturalized, or legal resident aliens. I also don’t think it is ok for those groups to commit crimes against illegal aliens, as also happens. But I think it is ludicrous to treat every example of lawbreaking by anyone as equivalent.

The issue of illegal immigration has caused problems for all three populations. I have never denied that. I just have different solutions than you do.

Sorry, your argument does not work. Illegals are breaking the law at all times and continue to break even more laws when working, when obtaining a driver license, etc, etc. To compare that to someone who might drive over the speed limit for a short period of time is not only stupid, but wrong.

I posted an article in this thread regarding Socialist Hugo Chavez. In another thread you said his policies were not hurting his Country. So, I guess there goes another one of your liberal POVs down the drain.