A KKK Outrage
By Greg L | 2 September 2007 | Manassas City | 135 Comments
CONFIRMED.
I’ve gotten an unconfirmed report reports that some KKK fliers showed up in the driveways of Manassas City residents this morning. I find this absolutely outrageous. Although, with the help of the ACLU, this group has been found to have free speech rights to distribute their incendiary and reprehensible tracts, and there’s no legal means at this point to prohibit these folks from littering our property with their disgusting garbage, I would hope that everyone in Manassas would promptly trash them. The KKK is not welcome in Manassas, and I’m absolutely certain that everyone in Manassas firmly rejects this irresponsible, fatally flawed, and thankfully insignificant group of outsiders.
That they feel they can only do this by chucking their offensive tracts out of a moving car is at least a reassurance they they know that they will not be received well at our doorsteps. Why they bother to do this instead, when it’s certainly not going to help their cause, is beyond me.
I have no tolerance for these idiots.
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Absolutely disgusting.
The American Nazi Party protested outside the Mexican Consulate in my home town of Omaha this past week. These groups only hurt the debate and encourage those who paint the anti illegal crowd with the same broad brush.
I wish those jokers would go back under their respective rocks.
Sounds like dirty tricks from the illegal immigration crowd.
Well the Klan has been revitalizing chapters through the illegal immigration issue. It’s been quite the recruitment draw and a way of blending with the mainstream according to Klan officials themselves and to groups who monitor them. The issue has also been embraced by Stormfront, the National Alliance, and others. I predict much more of this as the election approaches. I hope it doesn’t make an ugly situation in Manassas even uglier.
For you liberals out there…the KKK is no better than La Raza. Same type of people with the same garbage agenda.
monticup - You really take the cake (cupcake maybe). KKK is an organization of sick people that no sane person would want to have ANYTHING to do with! Basta! - As for The Patriot - to liken La Raza to KKK is so outrageous I can’t find words. Haven’t heard of LaRaza lynching anyone or hanging anyone from trees or put burning crosses on lawns. When you start like that there’s no doubt but that you’re a rabblerouser and fearmongerer. Really, really sad! - I agree with JM; wish KKK and the American Nazi Party would disappear, but they won’t. To much hate and fear on all sides to feed on.
I have lived here since the 70’s and we at one time had KKK papers dropped off to our home in the driveway ( in the early ’90s) MY FATHER BURNED THEM IN WOOD STOVE!
One more thing, MY family are PROUD HELP SAVE MANASSAS members and have no tolerance of such groups and will listen and HELP EDUCATE people that think that HMS is of the same belief, but once educated-that’s it- we will not keep battling out the name calling, etc. The TRUTH always comes out.
Lovisa, oh…La Raza is just as bad.
Lovisa, are you saying that a group called “The Race” is not just as bad? You must be kidding!
Good for you that you don’t support those groups. I don’t think that most people coming to this forum are racist but please don’t lionk that with illegal aliens again. When you start doing that your message looses all its power.
By saying that you don’t support the KKK, then you rest your case.
One point though that it is clear is that the KKK sees an opportunity there because your message is not as clear as intended. Focus on your community and what you can do to solve the problems(I don’t need to give you advice on how) and stop the attacks to people. Stop the illegal aliens rethoric and focus on the consequences of the problem. When you attack the babies of illegal aliens for example,people like the KKK tend to think that there is a window of opportunity there.
Everytime I hear Greg talking on TV he has done a good job about conveying a clear message about what you stand for. You will get more out of this debate if you stop talikn about illegal aliens the way you talk and focus on the issues. Illegal aliens cabnnot be blamed for eveything that goes wrong in your community.
Patriot I have posted her the part that La Raza doesn’t translate into the Race. Here you have it again:
What does the term “La Raza” mean?
The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people,” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. Some people have mistranslated “La Raza” to mean “The Race,” implying that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.
I thought you have learned Patriot but I see that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
People like Patriot are the ones attracting the KKK to Mannasas. They see that it is possible to exploit the ign orance of some citizens
Iknow what comes next. Youare liberal TH or Bron Supremacist(I think you will like that one better)
TH…well I guess you better investigate your information more closely. Groups like Mecha and the signs that I have seen at protests (this year) go against what you are saying.
Patriot, you used to enjoy asking if you could join La Raza, as though they had a restriction on non-Hispanic members, which they clearly do not. In equating La Raza with the Klan, do you suppose the Klan also allows people of any religious or ethnic background to join? That is apart from the record of extreme violence Lovisa mentioned for which the Klan is famous.
Hispanic is not a race, as I am sure you know. What characterizes the Spanish-speaking peoples of both North (Mexico), Central, and South America is mixture.
I realize you choose to ignore the origins of the name of the group you seem totally obsessed by, but they are easy to find on their site:
What does the term “La Raza” mean?
The term “La Raza” has its origins in early 20th century Latin American literature and translates into English most closely as “the people,” or, according to some scholars, “the Hispanic people of the New World.” The term was coined by Mexican scholar José Vasconcelos to reflect the fact that the people of Latin America are a mixture of many of the world’s races, cultures, and religions. Some people have mistranslated “La Raza” to mean “The Race,” implying that it is a term meant to exclude others. In fact, the full term coined by Vasconcelos, “La Raza Cósmica,” meaning the “cosmic people,” was developed to reflect not purity but the mixture inherent in the Hispanic people. This is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.
TH,
My family and I do not support Mexicans without Borders- Mexicanos Sin Fronteras, Answer, La Raza to name a few, or ANY group that supports entering the United States of America illegally. PERIOD. As you say, I rest my case.
We were talking about NCLR not MECHA!
TH…the KKK is NEVER welcome here as far as I am concerned. This issue is not about race. It is about coming here legally and assimilating into the American melting pot (while still being able to share one’s heritage with others).
TH…why don’t you research La Raza in the context of Mecha. Those that are affiliated with Mecha have La Raza all over their signs! Do you not think that someone from Mecha could be affiliated with NCLR also? La Raza is part of NCLR’s name, but it is also affiliated with groups like Mecha.
TH…and actually…I have found connections between NCLR and Mecha. I posted information on this several months back.
Sorry, didn’t realize TH had posted the NCLR info. But then it’s commonly known, except to Patriot apparently. Of course he is the expert in the Spanish language and its coinages.
TH, I would agree with you unfortunately. The Klan tends to take time and money distributing literature in places it thinks (rightly or wrongly) it will be welcome. I hope that all the people on this blog make it very clear to the KKK and similar groups active in Virginia that it isn’t the case, despite the apparent attractiveness of the immigration issue. And yes, I didn’t modify with the word “illegal” since sorry, when it comes to Latinos the Klan doesn’t care.
Methinks they doth protest too loudly
TH , before you go on lecturing The Patriot about the racist group called “la Raza”, why dont you give the same defense to the group called the “KKK”.
The KKK was founded as a benevolent society to help the plight of wounded confederate soldiers, and a charity for those who became impoverished in the south after the Civil War. Many of the founding members began leaving the KKK when it started to turn into the disgusting terrorist organization that it is today.
I dont know much about the scholar “Vasconcelos”, from what you have posted he sounds like a swell guy. However, the term he “coined” La Raza is indeed a racist group now.
So the KKK and La Raza may have started with noble intentions, but both are now a menace to our nation.
KKK = just as bad as La Raza
Any group that advocates the advancement of one group over another based on ethnic lines is a major problem. This is why the American melting pot is in place. So that people of all different backgrounds can integrate with one another so unity can be established. If multiculturalism persists, our nation will consist of splintered groups based on ethnic divisions (vice being unified).
Methinks they doth “CONTINUE TO” protest too loudly!!
OnceVoice said on 2 Sep 2007 at 9:21 pm:
“Methinks they doth protest too loudly”
Your statement has me thinking, is this not common sense? (and maybe off topic to what you are saying)
It just caught my eye, (as so many other comments) there is just SO MUCH TIME WASTED in arguing, with the same people. It has me thinking, either you get it or you don’t.
This is not in reference to ANY group, but remember, the saying : “silent but deadly”,( as far as the comment “protest too loudly”) People NEED to be AWARE of their surroundings. The other saying ” it’s a small world after all” - true, but at the same time a BIG world with so many people and motives. I just take the TIME and get EDUCATED by being AWARE of your surroundings.
It might be a good idea just to change the subject unless we want a search engine to pop up bvbl.net every time someone does a search on the clan. Yes, I intentionally misspelled it.
* the last sentence to my statement should have read : I just SAY take time and get educated….
I just see so much energy wasted in aruging with the same people, only to have the person your are debating with not answer the question and DANCE around it with some other question and it never gets answered.
It also reminds me of the saying ” you cannot change people, places or things and asking the WISDOM to know the difference. Let’s also go to the definition if insanity, doing the SAME thing over and over again and expecting different results. All anyone has to do is research, even by going back thru THIS blog and find answers. I rest my case.
I just think it needed to be repeated:
redawn said on 2 Sep 2007 at 8:40 pm:
One more thing, MY family are PROUD HELP SAVE MANASSAS members and have no tolerance of such groups and will listen and HELP EDUCATE people that think that HMS is of the same belief, but once educated-that’s it- we will not keep battling out the name calling, etc. The TRUTH always comes out.
Gee, Redawn you were the one I had in mind. Looks like I hit a nerve.
I still say it’s a dirty trick dreamed up by LaRaza symps.
Patriot: You are correct the racism and tactics of the Clan (misspelled per Dolph) and LaRaza are the same thing.
OneVoice said on 2 Sep 2007 at 10:10 pm:
“Gee, Redawn you were the one I had in mind. Looks like I hit a nerve.”
I guess that is what that saying means of ” The Truth is Everlasting”
Maybe it is just me, but it seems much more probable that this is a plant by someone trying to throw a monkey wrench into the work being done by HSM than a real KKK event. Seems to me that monticup may not be far off the mark. How long do you think it will take the media and the Potomac Pravda to pull a link between the KKK and HSM out of the air? I am glad Greg is out in front of this. I’m hoping someone will catch one of the folks putting out the literature. Be interesting to see who is really behind this.
This needs to be investigated. The group that distributed these flyers must be traced and exposed. LaRaza types are trying to sabotage HSM.
Monticup,
Not always so, this was an earlier comment from me and I speak the truth.(below)
BVBL has had comments earlier in previous threads by the clan.
Look under the threads: I get some press and The Aftermath.
BE SMART!- NOT saying that you are not!
This blog is FULL of info. ALL someone has to do is go back and read. The clan is alive and real in this area. It has been.
If you were them-would you not try to strike when the DEBATE (iron) is hot?
THIS IS THE TIME THAT ALL NEED TO TAKE 5 AND RESEARCH THE TRUTH.
GO back thru this blog and look up the names of organizations that have been discussed, links, etc. DO SOME HOMEWORK and come back to the table.
redawn said on 2 Sep 2007 at 8:33 pm:
I have lived here since the 70’s and we at one time had KKK papers dropped off to our home in the driveway ( in the early ’90s) MY FATHER BURNED THEM IN WOOD STOVE!
The clan HAS been and ALIVE and well in this area. Here is my previous post. (below)
See prior threads of this blog where the clan has even entered the debate: 1.I get some press and 2. The Aftermath.
Now is the time for everyone to go back and research all the organizations that have been discussed. Go back and you will find answers to questions that HAVE never been answered in some debates because some people will answer a question with another answer and so on.
redawn said on 2 Sep 2007 at 8:33 pm:
I have lived here since the 70’s and we at one time had KKK papers dropped off to our home in the driveway ( in the early ’90s) MY FATHER BURNED THEM IN WOOD STOVE!
This should read answer a question with another question.
“Go back and you will find answers to questions that HAVE never been answered in some debates because some people will answer a question with another answer and so on.”
La Raza, “literally translated as “the race”,
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
Mike Austin, any reason you didn’t include what followed in the entry?
“while literally translated as “the race”, is more often used as a synonym[citation needed] of “el pueblo” or “la gente”, both of which mean “the people”.
and further down…
“The term “La Raza” may also encompass a racial significance associated with “mestizaje”, or race-mixing (in Mexico not in Spain). In this sense, the term is inclusive of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas, European immigrants, and all the mixtures among them.”
and further down:
“He [Vasconcelos, a Mexican intellectual] believed that eventually all of the races would be completely mixed into a new race that had the best attributes of all the cultures; armies of these people would then go forth around the world professing their knowledge and initiating the “universal era of humanity”.
I guess this and the further discussion in the entry indicating mixture of many peoples and not some kind of racial essentialism lacked interest for you.
Even if everyone here isn’t racist, the perception by mainstream US sees you the same from your tone and media coverage.
Hardly FIM…only those who fear that the public movement in opposition to the unimpeded flow of illegal aliens into our country, and those who enable that flow, perceive this movement to be racist. It’s the only argument in opposition that they can think to offer.
Correction: either elimate “that” (who fear the public), or add “will be successful” (those who enable that flow will be successful)…either way, it conveys my intended meaning.
The PWC County residents rec’d ltrs from the HRC in Sept. 2006 which condemned the July leafleting of the White Patriot Leader (i’m assuming the clan) as hate literature (i’m sure it was). It’s nothing new (and should be condemned).
In some ways LaRaza is more dangerous than the clan. Check out how your tax dollars are supporting them. Wake up people and get in touch with your elected representatives: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:DdM9Oyy2GA8J:www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp%3FARTICLE_ID%3D55976+funds+la+raza&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
KKK OUTRAGE IS RIGHT….but what did you expect.
On Aug 31 this was included in part of what I wrote. ” In the early 2000s, many communities in the United States began to experience a significant influx of immigrants, especially Hispanics, for the first time in their histories. A single-issue movement opposing immigration has helped create fear and anxiety about immigration in the minds of many Americans. This single-issue movement was started by the KKK. The local grass roots groups springing up need to be very, very careful lest they be associated with or approached by one of the most bigoted, racist, hate, terrorist groups in the history of the US. Hope Greg and his group do not find themselves in very hot water one day.” To answer Freedom’s question and Redawn’s question. No that was not a threat. I am a peace loving person who believes strongly in Human Rights. I was trying to get the HSM group to realize that there are very dangerous groups out there and they may infiltrate HSM and no one would know the difference. As you can see by today’s Journal Messenger (9/3) the KKK has raised it’s ugly head in Manassas and is spreading their propaganda in the City of Manassas. That just makes me sick!! You may know the KKK was founded as a benevolent, Christian society to help the the wounded confederate soldiers. They also claimed to be charitable organization for those who needed help in the south after the Civil War but we all know the history. They turned into the dangerous, disgusting terrorist group they are today. The KKK frightens me and what they are capable of frightens me. I was around when they burned crosses in yards and spread their hate and bigotry. That is why I have little tolerance for groups such as yours who spread hate, bigotry and who discriminate. Not one time have I heard any solution you may have but only what you perceive as the problem. Guess the solution is to force all hispanics out of Manassas and PW County and send the problem to some other place. Did anyone know that the President has given the go ahead to Mexican truckers to travel in US and through US to Canada? That was part of the NAFTA treaty and there was a small article in yesterday’s JM. If HSM is really interested in solving the problem maybe they would begin looking to the Feds. Pressure needs to be put on Congress to inact immigration reform, to close the border, etc. Spreading hate and bigotry is not the answer. All that does is spawn more hatred and bigotry. It seems HSM does not feel they are spreading hatred and bigotry but when only one group of people is being affected, and according to what I know about the Civil Rights Act, that is considered discrimination. It appears that HSM is discriminatory. Is HSM doing anything about any other groups of illegals. From what I read Asians are now the fastest growing population of illegals. Also to answer another question posed by another individual, I am not hispanic, an African American nor am I an Asian.
Like I said I wish the HSM group would develop some solutions to the problems. So far all I have not heard any.
The clan are NOT patriots. Their activities are just as un-American as La Raza.
There is no comparison between the clan and La Raza that I can see. While you might not like or approve of the mission of La Raza, I hardly see that organization as one whose sole purpose is to spread terrorism under the guise of being an ‘American’ or any other nationality.
Dolph…La Raza is involved with Mecha and groups like that. Which is just as bad.
Dolph, Leila, Lovisa, read and watch (and learn):
Analysis of the The Aztec Al-Qaeda video. Shows ties between NCLR, Mayor of Los Angeles Antonio Villaraigosa, and Mecha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1XAQc8hS8&mode=related&search
Time: 0:06 – 0:12 States that Marcos Aguilar is the Principal and founder of the Academia Semillas del Pueblo charter school.
Time: 0:12 – 0:17 States that the Mayor of Los Angeles Antonio Villaraigosa and Marcos Aguilar were members of the UCLA chapter of Mecha.
Time: 0:18 – 0:26 States that Mecha was founded for the sole purpose of “radicalizing young Latino students for the hatred of America and to promote Chicano pride and separatism”
Time: 0:33 – 0:38 States that Mecha “seeks nothing less than control of the United States through the ballot box or by armed revolution”
Time: 0:40 – 0:44 States that Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa was President of UCLA chapter of Mecha.
Time: 1:00 – 1:04 States that Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa demanded Communist inclusion within the UCLA Chicanos study center.
Time: 1:30 – 1:55 Marcos Aguilar discusses that it is a bad thing for Mexican children to become “Americanized” (which would mean that it is a bad thing for Mexican children to assimilate into the common American Identity which is what all true Americans have done to keep this nation together and united).
Time: 1:55 – 2:24 States that the Academia Semillas del Pueblo charter school that is run by Marcos Aguilar caters to grades K through 8, is funded by State tax-payers and the National Council of La Raza (NCLR), that most of the students are children of illegal aliens, and that these children are taught a language now used by the Mexican Mafia.
Time: 2:24 – 2:37 Marcos Aguilar states “nowhere in the Constitution of the United States or the Declaration of Independence does it say that because you come here you have to now become an American. English, math, and American history take a backseat to Danza Azteca”
Time: 2:54 – 3:28 Clearly shows the violence of Chicano radicals and La Raza against legal American citizens.
Time: 4:04 – 6:28 Shows Marcos Aguilar’s affiliation with Juan Alvarez (who was a member of the Mecha club) who was involved in derailing a passenger train that killed 11 people and injuring approximately 200 people in 2005 in Glendale, CA.
Time: 6:30 – 7:18 States that KABC Reporter Sandy Wells was attacked after trying to interview Marcos Aguilar at the Academia Semillas del Pueblo charter school that he runs, and that when news of the event was made known to the public, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa stated that he supported the school and its teaching philosophy.
Time: 7:18 – 7:23 Quote from Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa (while serving as the President of UCLA chapter of Mecha) “For those of the race, everything. For those outside the race, nothing.”
Time: 7:32 – 7:36 The National Council of La Raza opened 50 new charter schools in 2005.
Greg, the KKK is just another of your friendly allies in your battle against the brown, black, yellow residents. Actually I’m certain you would embrace them if it was PC.
La Raza, LULAC, Mecha, Mexican Movement are all groups with a similar agenda.
FaithHopeLove: This has been happening on and off long before there was a Help Save Manassas, and usually happened when there was some sort of big news story breaking. Just because I am the first source of news on this, don’t think that I have anything to do with the KKK doing lit drops in Manassas.
Because Help Save Manassas provides a responsible means for citizens to engage in the legislative process, I hope that extremists like these folks will find it even harder to gain traction. If folks are concerned about illegal aliens in their community, they don’t need to even think about these nutbags for a second, because a better alternative not only is in place, but proving itself very effective.
How are they involved? As a child of the 60’s, I found that various groups overlapped while each maintained its own mission, goals and objectives. The more I read, the more I see La Raza as a Latino model of the NAACP. While I might not espouse many of their policies, I cannot demonize a coalition that attempts to be a voice for a particular group of people.
I would prefer to disagree with specific policies that organization embraces rather than attack the organization as a whole.
Dolph, watch the video and read the analysis and you will see.
Dolph, additionally, go and find video of the recent protests around the country and you will see even more of the information with the signs that the people are boldly carrying right in public.
Lovisa, Leila, move your liberal butts over. I have been branded also. Make way for Liberal Dolph.
This is so much fun.
Dolph, I did not label you as a liberal…I used your name.
Greg with all due respect. I have to agree with Harry. The KKK is just another of your friendly allies in your battle against the brown, black, yellow residents. Bigotry on any level spawns more bigotry. I am so saddened. Extremists will gain control and HSM is giving them a fertile field in which to plant their hatred. Folks concerned about illegal aliens in their community, will think about these nutbags. It does not matter whether there is a better alternative or not in place. On another note, I do not feel that you in any way had anything to do with the literature being dropped by the KKK. I just think the agenda of HSM has made the field fertile for all the nutbags to jump on the band wagon. I am really worried now that Manassas my really need to be saved.
No, you did not. I agree. And I was not being serious when I said that either.
Poor Dolph. I know that for Patriot that is the supreme insult. i laugh when he/she call me librearl to end a deabte where he/she feels cornered. Yesterday we were talikng about how La Raza doesn’t translate into The Race. He seems to agree but then he brough MECHA and the doom we face.
He/she doesn’t seem to be a reader of History. There is nothing out threr to prove that radical groups, even those who were very organized, were successful in this country. Think of the Black Panthers and the Chicago groups.
TH…watch the video and you will see the ties with pictures!
TH…some people might use the term La Raza as you suggest. But there are others that do not. So why don’t you dig in and learn something.
TH…go search youtube, go search other resources to look for photos and video from recent protests from around the country! It is all there for you to see in plain imagery. The people are bold and have no problems holding there little hate signs right out in the open! I will let you do the research for your own edification.
TH…I have a question for you…when Rep. Louis Guiterrez was asked if policy should be made for the good of ALL Americans vice for groups of people based on ethnicity he balked and did not answer the question. What do you suppose that meant?
http://www.aztlan.net
Faithhopelove,
Are you so naïve as to think that the clan (misspelling intentional) needs a fertile field to plant hatred? They own the field and are proud of it.
They have been around for a long, long time and are not very subtle.
I believe you are implying that because I am concerned about the impact of illegal immigration in my neighborhood and want to make legislative changes to curb said problems, that I am somehow crawling under the sheets with the clan. I find that supposition to be very insulting and almost un-American.
I hope I have misread your intent.
Some very interesting stuff on that website, by the way. You might come away with the impression they don’t much like Jews, as a Jewish co-worker of mine did.
I love the sources you use: Youtube. Perfect way to learn. If that the route to take, then youtube pretty much documents many incidents in which anti-illegal groups have racist signs with them. That source of documentation goes both ways and gives ammunition for any side of any debate.
Well, I guess those Salvadorans with whom I worked for years just lied and mistranslated their own language. La Raza = The Race. The Superior Race.
And what Luis Gutierrez has to do with this debate? You tend to use the scientific methods that as long as one person said or did it, then it has all the validitry and reliability of the world.
Whenever you are pointed to well documented sources of the assimilation issue for example, then you use the ultimate spell: Liberasl. the person attacked cannot debate with you anymore because their argument are unworthy
Dolph
You misread my intent. I know the KKK has been around a long time. Like I said I have seen their burning crosses. It is frightening. I am an American through and through and I value my land and my community. Now I am fearful for my community. I do not want things to escalate out of control. I think the dropped literature is a step in that direction. I think the present climate in PW Co and Manassas has opened the door a little wider for not only the KKK but other radical groups to come forward. Your intentions from your perspective may be good and honorable but not everyone has the same perception.
Like I said before the field is fertile for planting and harvesting hatred. That is about all I have to say on the issue. No one will ever convince you or members of HSM to see things any differently or from any other perspective. I am just wasting my time.
The syuperior race of Brown supremacists who have all the resources of the world to defeat the misable USA. A country like El salvador that has all the power to dominate the strentgh of the USA
I will start by checking Patriot’s home
FaithHopeLove,
I do not believe that most people who know me would describe me as close-minded. I actually don’t think I have said anything here that one could construe as close-minded other than my intense dislike of NCLB, which is probably not even germane to our dialogue.
I also believe you are broadbrushing everyone here. It takes a while to figure it all out, but if you listen to people here, you will see that the contributors are very different and have very different perspectives. For most of us, it is an exchange of ideas. Granted, a few here wouldn’t see someone else’s point of view if it were delivered with a stick of dynamite. However, isn’t that the way it is in almost any group you could form? If you disaggregate the opinions of the contributors, I am sure you would notice the distinctly different points of view.
All of these groups: the KKK, La Raza, MECHA, NAACP are racist organizations. Any group that advocates rights or advancement of one race over another has no place in this society. It’s a shame that in the 21st century that any of these groups are still tolerated. None are any better or worse than the others regardless of what the libs say. They all breed racism, separation, and promote unequal benefits based on skin color.
Dave B.
Sadly, the history of the US is plagued with discrimination and that is why a lot of these groups exist today. One of the things we fail to see is that all these processes take years. I was not a ong time ago that you had schools that were onot integrated,. That generation who went through that is still alive. It takes years to get real integration or assimilation.
It would be naive to think that discrimination has been erased. I don’t thnik that this group is racist as Dolph said.
TH. If you don’t think La Raza is racist, then you have your eyes/ears closed.
Of all the contributors, TH is the last one to accuse of having a closed mind.
….so much fun.
I believe part of the confusion is because of the universality of the term La Raza. There is a prison gang..or perhaps not only a prison gang who call themselves la raza. La Raza is also used to express Latino solidarity and unity. Then there is the National Council of La Raza which to me, looking at their polices sounds like a group similar to NAACP.
Because I am not a member of the Latino community and my Spanish is not fluent, I am sure there are subtleties and shades of gray that are just beyond my scope of knowledge. However, I am not ready to brand NCLR as solely a racist organization, any more than I would say that about the NAACP.
Now, do I agree with all their policies? Absolutely not. (same for NAACP) However, I understand that both are groups that are advocacy groups for minority populations and I understand why they exist.
Any gang or any movements that advocate any take over of American soil or culture I do not attempt to understand or tolerate.
I rarely use the word ‘racist’ because it is just a tired, over-worked word that has been bandied about too often. Operative word here is ‘rarely.’
Anon,
I have to agree with you that TH is not close-minded. At times I do not agree with him but he generally tries to not only see someone else’s point of view (within reason) but also to understand it. He is also a person I feel I can discuss differences of opinion with without personal confrontation. Furthermore, he has helped me understand concepts that have been out of my frame of knowledge.
Dolph, I hate to use the word racist as well, that is unless it is warranted. I also agree that the NAACP was needed 40 years ago due to all the injustice that existed in that time. Today however, I feel that it is an organization that has outlived its usefulness and only serves to give the underachievers in the black community a crutch to lean on for preferential treatment. I shudder to think of what would happen if someone tried to create a NAAWP for white folks to get preferential treatment. It seems that in the minds of libs and minorities that it is perfectly fine that white folks be denied any preferential treatment, yet reasonable that minorities be granted preferential treatment whether it be for scholarships or for employment.
In the early 90’s as I was finishing up my degree in criminal justice, I was selectively denied employment with local police departments because I was white and male. In many of my classes I was friends with women and minorities who were given preferential treatment due to quotas that the departments had to fill. It was openly discussed that they knew full well the only reason they got the job was because they were female or minorities. That is to this day still a bitter pill for me when I look back, especially considering I have a spotless record and had all the requirements except for the skin color. The DC police were the only department that would accept me and I opted not to go with them because of the stigma attached to that department in those days. Racism is racism regardless of who the initiator is.
La Raza: racist, MECHA: racist, NAACP: racist, KKK: racist. If they advocate special treatment or superiority based on skin color then they ARE racist and should not be tolerated in the 21st century. You can justify the existence of any of these organizations all you want, but if they advocate preferential treatment of one race at the expense of another than they are racist. Don’t let the guilty libs fool you into thinking otherwise.
“Sadly, the history of the US is plagued with discrimination and that is why a lot of these groups exist today.”
…and the history of the rest of the world is not?? Do you know WHY these groups exist today, TH? Because WE have a concept called “Free Speech” which we take VERY seriously…can the people of YOUR country of origin claim the same right? It’s the right that allows people such as you to participate in free debate on a venue such as this and make insulting comments about people of whom they know nothing about.
Greg, and the other commenters here, have made it quite clear that they are incensed that the violent, and irrelevant, KKK is using the message of the rule of law espoused by HSM to further their own perverted message. How does THAT differ from the radical, and violent, element of those whom YOU support perverting the message that the more reasonable amongst you are trying to convey?
Dave,
I totally understand where you are coming from. My husband has left jobs for similar reasons. He felt he could not advance with them because of the politics and stigma of being a white male.
I neither support nor endorse the NAACP or NCLR. I see them as similar organizations. While I will not brand them as racist, you are certainly entitled to your opinions. I explained why I rarely use that word ‘racist.’
I see a big difference between wanting preferential treatment and some of the violence either acted upon or advocated by some of these other groups. For that reason alone, I chose to separate NCLR and NAACP from the other groups mentioned. My comments certainly weren’t meant to convey whole-hearted endorsement.
Faith, Hope and Love
Just for your information not all members of HSM are white people. That is a fact!
Manassas is already lost and should not be revived, let the place die a quiet death.
If you actually lived here Harry, and are not merely passing through, you couldn’t say that.
AWCheney,
Where did I say that iI support the NCLR. I just stated that LaRaza doesn’t translate into The Race. I do a lot of research on assimilation issues and I have never participated in any of their conferences or events. I go to more serious events in which what I document is not used for any political gain.
I do speak Spanish fluently and I have lived in many countries in Central America so i thought that I was making a point because I know what the term means.
I don’t like what groups such as the NCAAP or NCLR do but I understand why they do it. That is all.
As you promised lately with the mano a mano that you have offered to me, go and check my post. I have disagreed with Greg but he has been nice enough to explain his points and at the end we had agreed on a lot of issues. I don’t think Greg speaks for the KKK. Just read what I said about it.
For those of you who are trying to explain away the true mission of LaRaza–it’s like the terrorists who say jihad means “personal struggle”, not holy war. We know what LaRaza, Atzlan, etc. means and we know what you’re up to. Playing games with semantics might fool some but not all of us.
Legal2,
I don’t care if they are racist or not because I don’t support them. That was not the point of my post. If you present with facts that show that they have supported discrimination then I will agree with you. Right now I am indifferent to what they do.
To summarize what I have said to Patriot: They accept anyone regardless of their background (see the online forms to get membership) and La Raza cannot be translated literally to The Race.
Monticup,
It doesn’t fool people who are willing to hear and learn. In your case, you told me you are educated so I guess that you are always right Dr. Monticup.
The way you are reacting Monticup is the same way that some groups react when they hear Greg or HSM: they say they are racists and see just what they want to hear. That is why there is no dialogue just preconceptions guiding everything.
You mean like “Maureen from Manassas” calling in Channel 8 and bringing up the “R” word??? That was classic and immature at the same time.
A better question would have been, what you you think of e-verify as a requirement for PWC Business licenses? Instead we had the mall/protest stalker bring up the R word. Soooooooo much fun.
“Where did I say that iI support the NCLR.”
…and where did I say that you did? You really do need to work on the comprehension of your adopted language, TH. What I said was, “How does THAT differ from the radical, and violent, ELEMENT (emphasis added) of those whom YOU support perverting the message that the more reasonable amongst you are trying to convey?” I did not say that you support the radicals…just that they are an element involved on your side of the issue, just as there are unwelcome radicals on our side. The English language is one of the more difficult, due to its nuances. That’s why it’s dangerous to take things out of context.
That is why I am going to work at Walmart to ask you Stepson to teach me
You keep it up TH…this could get very bloody. He only worked there for a short period of time before he went into the military, but that is totally irrelevant. You, TH, are becoming totally irrelevant as well.
I would prefer not to get insulting, as you are wont to do, but I could play that game as well. The fact is, I would much prefer that YOU get banned rather than I…so keep it up.
It worked for you in politics Anke. I won’t attack you anymore. If I get banned I won’t die Anke. You background should teach you that If you get mad in the middle of a debate you loose. politicians learn to keep their cool and I don’t doubt that you have helped politicians to control themselves.
As far as getting irrelevant that is not up to you to decide. Other people seemed to have learned a litlle bit by reading my broken English. As long as people understand what i am saying, then I can continue contributing.
Your message though will become irrelevant if you answer my arguments by pointing to my adopted language.
TH: Your problem is not your fluency in your adopted language. What I’m finding in your posts is an incoherence of thought and a tendency to lash out in anger and sarcasm at those who disagree with you.
“Other people seemed to have learned a litlle bit by reading my broken English.”
Funny, I never said anything about your “broken English.” The only language issue I have addressed is that of reading comprehension and the many nuances inherent to the English language. If you consider that a result of your broken English, fine…just don’t lay that on me.
from everything I read and what I’ve heard on the news “Maureen from manassas” had good cause to ask her question. When someone spouts the “r” word and then says they didnt do it, it says that person is a bit of a liar right?
Nancy Lyall is just another illegal-immigrant activist looking for some kind of foothold where there is none.
It’s funny how they never mention the word “illegal”
Dr. Monticup,
Keep the ad-hominem attacks. Let me ask you one question, is ii ignorance better than sarcasm?
I guess that when I contradict your arguments I am angry. I am not angry. My sarcasm shows that I am having fun. Some people thought that I was experimenting with you.
Your case is unique, you don’t respond to questions and in fact you are the one attacking the person disagreeing with you.
Say what? Another left wing trick–whenever you don’t like what is being said you call it an attack or better still, “finger-pointing”. Also, the term “racist” is flung.
In response to Harry and FaithHopeLove:
The fight here is NOT against “brown, black, yellow residents…” but against people who violate our laws in coming here and living here illegally. Those who support ILLEGAL immigration try to fuzz up the issue by saying those who support strengthening and enforcing our laws are against immigration or racist. That is mere sophistry and needs to be challenged more that is done currently.
What part of illegal don’t you understand?
Harry C: That’s the whole point. They do not understand the rule of law. They come from a culture where “illegal” has no meaning whereas here in the USA the rule of law is basic to our success as a nation.
You know Monticup, the really strange thing about TH suddenly deciding she was going to start attacking me is that, although I didn’t always agree with her, we didn’t really disagree on that much…particularly the issue of civil debate. WHY she suddenly decided that I was going to be a meek, willing subject for her to flail is really a mystery to me…perhaps because I tried to be nice? Boy, did she pick the wrong person to go schizo on!
Monticup,
Find one post in which I called you racist. I have called you ignorant but never racist.
AWC,
I agree that we agree on the issue of civil debate. You insist on saying that I attacked you. I used YOUR example as a way to prove that the illegal alien issue is not only about crime but also about our economy.
I feel surprised that suddenly you feel like a bad mother who has to justify something.
My point is that we have a terrible situation when americans kids have to compete with illegal aliens for jobs. The fact that you took my post personally is because you went through that situation.
Don’t attack my English or my menta state. Add something to the debate and respond this question:
Why do american kids have to compete for jobs with illegal aliens?
I am trying to bring the debate back to civil terms. It is up to you to do it.
Monticup or Patriot,
It is easy to attack me but you haven’t said anything about La Raza not meaning The Race. You said:
“This needs to be investigated. The group that distributed these flyers must be traced and exposed. LaRaza types are trying to sabotage HSM”
Everything is a conspiracy in your mind. We disagree because I think that the factors affecting us start with the business owners and our economic system. We don’t want to follow the money just the strangers at the gate.
I’m sorry TH, but reading comprehension is something you’re going to have to learn on your own…I’m tired of repeating myself. I’ve provided sufficient examples of your turpitude in this matter, and anything further you have to say to me, or in general, will be viewed through that lens.
That is not an answer but maybe it is. I cannot understand what I read. Your post proves that you prefer attacks and that you don’t have an argument. Good luck with your life Anke! I don’t plan to answer your posts even if you go the route of offending me. One more thing: I won’t ap0logize and that hurts, right?
Bye….
Geez, th has issues. or maybe it’s a cultural divide. what the heck is an anke?
Sheesh! Would ya’ll just do water balloons at 20 paces and end it!?
Legal2,
Anke is the name of AWCheney.
Seems KKK has been left out in the cold. I believe THAT is the object of this particular blog. But that was a hundred or so comments earlier. TH and AWCheney - please stop bickering like a couple of kids! You have wasted a beautiful holiday on irrelevant jabber.
Relevance is relative, Lovisa…I’m on a mission here. The “clan” issue was getting redundent anyway.
You were talking about writing and you cannot even spell redundant. It is hard to master a language
Sorry…forgot to use spell check. If you want to correct ALL the spelling around here, you’d have to post corrections 24/7. Good luck! BTW, the only subject matter I’ve posted even close to grammar was related to reading comprehension. Maybe, “Grammar,” you might want to look into that subject yourself.
Sorry…TH has me feeling a bit feisty today.
You people all need therapy!
Heh. I suspect posting here is a kind of therapy for some folks.
FINIS MALORUM - I hope.
grammar said on 3 Sep 2007 at 11:17 pm:
You were talking about writing and you cannot even spell redundant. It is hard to master a language
Hahaha! If you post as “Grammar” at least use a period at the end of a statement.
If you build it, they will come…..and Greg, you are the general contractor on this job by HSM. When you create the type of atmosphere you have this was bound to happen.
From TurnPWBlue on the offshoot of ms13 thread: “Mexican Mafia gangs (including SUR-13) in Southern California have a history of being anti-black and have hired members of the Aryan Brotherhood to carry out assassinations of black gang leaders.” Isn’t the Aryan Brotherhood another name for KKK? Sounds like our local mex-mafia is connected.
Legal2,
Same general idea but different groups. I believe that Aryan Brotherhood started out as a prison gang, but I wouldn’t swear to it.
Anonymous,
What a totally absurd remark. You are attempting to assign a cause/effect relationship where none exists, and I get the feeling you know exactly what you are doing, rather than the mistake being out of ignorance.
I just saw a segment on “The News Edge” about the KKK fliers. I tell you Nancy Lyall will spin anything. To insinuate that the KKK and HSM is one in the same is shameful. She will stoop to nothing. To infuriate me more it was claimed that someone from HSM brought in the KKK to help the cause. For all anyone knows Nancy L or someone from her bottom dwelling posse brought in the KKK to set HSM up. We all know how much she loves to make HSM look bad.
4kidz,
I saw the same segment. She was outrageous.
4kidzanadog & Dolph,
I saw the segment and was outraged at her associating Hsm with the HATE group too. Of course, what do you expect from someone who aids ILLEGAL aliens- SHAMEFUL is right but I still say the truth will come out.
KUDOS to Steve Thomas for the interview on Fox 5 news last night. IF he reads this blog, great job. Nancy, of course, was sooo far out in left field comparing HSM to the KKK. If she wants to use THAT logic of “since the KKK wants them gone and so does HSM, then they both are working together” we could throw back at her, “since Al Queda wants the US out of Iraq, and so do you…” Then again, Greg stomped her in the debate, what else do we expect from that apologist???
The Klan showing up shouldn’t surprise anybody. And it does a great job of pointing out the inability of many anti-immigration folks to hide the racist fears behind their complaints. It’s hilarious watching those folk run around trying to explain how they’re not racists, just worried about America. And yet, they don’t ever show up to complain about the Russian illegals in NY. And how many of them are only a couple of generations out of immigrant status themselves? (but my ancestors weren’t illegal, they’ll squeal — gee, you mean the ones who came before immigration laws existed? How lucky for you Irish/Italian/German descendants).
Nancy,
Now why would I be pissing and moaning about Russian ‘illegals’ in New York? Don’t you honestly think that would be a little silly on my part?
Most of the people on this blog are complaining because of the impact illegal immigration is having on their personal lives. We are not people arguing about theory that has nothing to do with us.
Were it over race, do you not think that somewhere on this blog, you would see someone mention Blacks or Asians? The fact that you haven’t seen those groups mentioned more or less blows your little ‘clan’ theory right out of the water, doesn’t it?
For all those who attack HSM or anyone who is against illegal immigration, are we supposed to leave our borders open and let anybody march in? Don’t we have any sovereignty? Are we to give every illegal who hasn’t committed a felony legal status so in 21 years we can have another 20 million illegals? How are these people going to assimilate when we cater to them? Where is the pressure to assimilate? How many illegal apologists (Hispanic or not) honestly look at their own prejudices? How many stop to wonder about their true motivations? How many have experienced the ignorance of others and instead of seizing the opportunity to educate w/out judgement they chose only to see racism? There is a lot of innocent ignorance in the world. How many take a truth out of context and run with it? How many who speak of wanting dialogue truly want dialogue and not the opportunity to accuse the other side of refusing to dialogue?
Now, there, there! You calm down there, fella…You just relax and anytime you get the gumption to stand up for yourself you just remember we need to achieve a wider diversity, uh, so as to provide for cheap (slave) labor for us rich folks. Now, don’t you be a racist, now!
John Kerry
well i think that all the hate, or hating the people that have a diffrent skin color or a diffrent religion is a horrible thing,. i think that they shoudl all be banned or maybe just have a whole island to themselves so they can chant to themselves of what they like and dislike. so for my imput i wish they would all just get wipped off the face of this earth. it is like what are they teaching little kids? are they wanting the next generation to hate all jews or hate all african americans? i think not we should all love one another and reconsider that we are all the same but diffrent skin colors or religions.
also i have cousins that are black and does that mean that i am supposed to hate them for the color, or immedialty call the “KKK” for thier help to get rid of them? NO JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE AND PICK ON SOMEONE THAT ACTS THE SAME AS YOU AND LIKES THE SAME THINGS AS YOU DO!!!!