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Mexicans Without Borders A No-Show
By Greg L | 5 September 2007 | Humor & Satire, Prince William County | 62 Comments
The Prince William Board of County Supervisors was told earlier this week that a large contingent of Mexicanos Sin Fronteras intended to show up for citizen’s time at last night’s meeting, but lo and behold, none of them showed up. Apparently, a few days before the meeting, they requested that the county provide translators for citizen’s time — at taxpayer expense. The county refused, to their credit. And then no one shows up from Mexicanos Sin Fronteras, other than Carlos Labioso, who is either a member, or was at their recent protest as a member of the Human Rights Commission seeking to be “educated” about the resolution, as he is fond of saying.
In his defense, the information he potentially gathered is probably of equal value to the testimony being provided by the majority of the organizations who are presenting before the Stirrup Resolution Committee of the Prince William County Human Rights Commission. He might want to swing by a meeting of Help Save Manassas sometime and get educated there.
Hmm, I know John Steinbach and Nancy Lyall speak English, although they can’t speak a lick of Spanish. Was her grandness Terasita Jacincto not willing to help out fifty of her fellow members last evening?
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Perhaps John’s wrathful grapes were just too bitter for both mice and men.
they could have got old Ricardo “Emilio zapata junior” juarez to speak for him. He speaks some form of english dialect although it’s pretty difficult to follow.
providing translators is not a county required action if I’m not mistaken unless it’s a criminal proceeding but I could be wrong.
Josh
Anonymous,
Great literary play on words. A little corny but very creative!
Dan
Josh,
You are correct. As I understand it, translators are only required for criminal trails. Since most deportation hearings are civil, courts generally do not supply translators even then. Other than criminal trials, I cannot think of any other instance where Federal law requires translators for non-English speakers.
Now I have a question. Has PWC passed a resolution to make English the official language?
Doing so would make a clear policy that PWC is not obligated to provide any service, form or written material in any language other than English. If they currently do so, making English the official language would mean they could stop doing so at any time.
Of course, by denying translators to MSF at the PWCBOCS meeting, PWC demonstrates that they can deny foreign language services anyway. Al the same, its good to have an official policy in place, both to protect the county and the insure that a rogue department head doesn’t spend precious dollars the county cannot afford on foreign language materials or translators that are not required by law.
Making English the official language would also encourage legal immigrants to assimilate.
Maybe they were waiting for Elvira Arellano to return to the U.S. from her second deportation where she is saying:
“I’m not asking for any visa,” she said. “I want a diplomatic post as ambassador of peace and justice, and I won’t accept anything less.”
Oh yes, she certainly is a quite the ambassador for “justice”, alright.
Under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Executive Order 13116 (first signed by President Clinton and reaffirmed by the Bush administration), any recipient of federal funds (including Prince William County) is required to provide language services to persons with limited English proficiency in any program that gets even a dime of federal money.
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/Pubs/eolep.htm
http://www.englishfirst.org/13166/13166doj102601.htm
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/coord/vimanual.htm
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/lep/DOJLEPGuidApr122002.htm
Adoption of a resolution making English the “official” language of the county isn’t necessary since English is already the official language of Virginia and has been since 1996, § 1-511 of the Code of Virginia.
Nor will adoption of such a resolution relieve the County of the obligation to provide language access to its programs (as suggested by one of the posts above) unless it wants to be in violation of the “rule of law” and give up all federal funding it receives including funds for law enforcement (including State Criminal Alien Assistance Program funding), education, public health, etc).
nice,
having a criminal as “ambassador of peace and justice”
that is so messed up, she should have been locked up for a little while before she was deported just for being trash.
Of all the characters in this entire immigration thing she is the one who makes my blood boil the most and is likely the biggest piece of trash in the bunch. The MSF guys are a bunch of buffoons and actually make me laugh a little bit. I probably get the biggest kick out of their “leader” Ricky Ricardo Juarez, every time I hear him speak english I laugh so hard I cry…he should be in comedy!
I wonder why Labioso did not want to interpute? He has trouble getting out the right English so maybe he’s better at Spanish.??
This Human Rights Commission has gone far astray of their intended programs and I wonder who is paying for all this extra???They meet once a month on Thurs. and the last two months they are meeting every Wed. to hear input from all the illegal groups that come running from Maryland, D.C and No. Va.
This last meeting had only 5 Commission Members there. Are they required to file a Report with the County?? Also understand they had food there. Who paid for it? Also only 5 in the audience and 3 were not day labor,so why all the extra meetings???
The Leaders,if we can call them that;like Lyall.Steinback,Gonzales and all the Workers Union,Unity in Community will keep the false inf flowing and we need to push as were doing.
HSM has done great things for our County and we will succeed!
Thank you Greg and John Stirrup
I was told that Spanish interpreters are provided by the courts (not sure if that is in VA, MD or both), but translators of other languages have to be paid for by the defendant. Isn’t that disrimination?
well,
during criminal proceedings translators are provided, however the parties do get billed for them and that includes spanish translators.
translators of other languages may be hard to come by as in the case of the guy from liberia who got off on Child abuse recently. They had to let him fly since they couldnt find a translator, however I think the re-arrested him.
JL
Fed up 2- I only saw four members of the committee there last week. Carlos Lambiosa brings the food in himself, at his expense. I have been told that all the committee members are volunteers and don’t get paid. I’m not sure about Phyliss Aggrey as she is the director of the HRC.
So as far as I know, the only expense would be the use of the building. Oh and maybe wasting everyone’s time.
It would be interesting to do a title search of properties owned in the community and surrounding areas to find out if these and other illegal alien apologists own flop houses and are harboring illegals.
The last time I checked, our BOCS was not a federal program. While I am not expert in deciphering Federal goobledeegoop, I don’t see how a county government could be required to provide a translator for every person who wants to address that body. There are thousands of languages in the world. Common sense says we cannot provide a translator for each and every one of them.
The simple fact that they came and could not communicate should have sent out a huge message that they do NOT want to speak English and that they want to sit back and have us provide the interpreter. There have been many instances where an American speaker in a foreign country, trying to make a point and an impression, had someone write the speech in the native language of that country, and that speaker tried to read it. At least it is something.
Phyllis, Director of the HRC, was making over $80K when she took that job several years ago.
Sigh. Typical. “We have come to your country. Now cater to us.”
this is the only spanish I know:
La Migra, La Migra Corre para tu vida!!
Josh
I couldnt resist posting this from Jay Leno:
“Mexican President Vicente Fox arrived in the U.S. today. So, it’s official. He’s the last one. Turn out the lights. They are all here now.” –Jay Leno
Advocator
Here’s just a little something on Nancy she purchased a home in 2004, by herself and paid $300K for it. That’s a pretty good size mortgage payment for just ONE person, don’t you think?
If she was working for PWCPS at that time they were paying her too damn much.
I don’t know what the HRC has been up to since last September when they did a mass mailing condemning the clan’s leafleting in 2006; they are probably very happy to be “busy” justifying their existence with the pro-illegal groups. Seems when they are without anything of substance, they formulate and circulate surveys. Our tax dollars (ameros) at work.
I’m just pissed off that when I called the PW County Dept. of Taxation the other day to ask a question about my car tax that the recorded message segued into Spanish.
Oh, for the long gone days of 1986 when a movie could have a line like this…
Lafayette,
Not really. Remember, NL is no spring chicken and it probably isn’t her first house. She is probably at or close to retirement age.
Clair,
It is also a law, that if one language translator has to made available for a public hearing a translator for every language in the US represented community must be provided also. That is an equal protection clause of the constitution that precedes the Presidential directive. This can be put to a constitutional test and the sooner someone files it the better. The NO answer is necessary, because you cannot be certain who will show up at your meeting and what ethnic group they will represent that is not capable of speaking or understanding English. Transcripts of the meeting can be translated later into any and all languages and posted on Public sites and an acceptable communication venue. Hiring translators to represent every possible ethnic group, is impractial, cost prohibitive, and unreasonable, just so you can require every human being in the US to speak and be spoken to in every language represented by every ethnic group or person who possibly doen’t WANT TO or CANT’t speak ENGLISH. This is why legal immigrants as a requirement for Legal immigration status, must first be required to be “Fluent in ENGLISH”, if you have a VISA you are just visitor, if your are “illegal” you have no right to any translator or public transcript funded with public tax dollars.
josh, paying for your own interpretors may be true in some cases, but all the ones i’m familiar with (many) are “indigent” latinos, meaning they are provided legal representation (and probably interpretors) at our expense.
Anyone ever hear of the Tower of Babel? = destruction.
Channel 23 (Prince William County Government channel) was yesterday running a message from the school superintendent, Dr. Walts, welcoming students back for the new school year IN SPANISH. This is outrageous! Often, I tune to channel 23 and find the messages and programs in Spanish. The BOCS needs to act immediately to declare English the County’s official language and cease providing translations of anything into Spanish. If someone is a legal, Spanish-speaking immigrant they should learn English and assimilate into our society. If someone is illegally here, they need to go. No more wasting our taxpayer dollars on services to illegals and people who refuse to become a part of American society as did every other immigrant group in our history!
What if a student was German or Italian or Japanese, etc. What about them? Is Spanish being given preference? English ONLY. Other languages can be learned optionally.
Prince William County has a large Korean immigrant population. Korean is a language that is much more different from English than is Spanish. Moreover, English is more difficult for a native Korean speaker to learn than it is for a native Spanish speaker. The politically-correct crowd does not rally on behalf of the Koreans, however. We never see messages from PWC School Superintendent Walts welcoming students back in Korean.
Koreans, for the most part, seek to integrate into American society and learn English rather than demand special benefits and privileges. My church offers free English-as-a-second-language courses. Even though the Spanish-speaking immigrant community is larger than the Korean immigrant community, Koreans make up the vast majority of participants in those courses.
Illegals from anywhere should be deported. Period. Legal immigrants who seek to integrate into our society, whether their native language is Spanish, Korean, Russian, Hausa, Pashto, or any other should be helped with their integration and welcomed here. Neither Prince William County nor any other jurisdiction, however, should offer services in any language other than English to pander to the politically-correct crowd and contribute to the Balkanization of the United States.
English as the official language of Prince William County now!!!!
Concerned,
Remember that schools have to educate all children in their jurisdiction, regardless of status. When you have a large population that speaks Spanish, and your goal is to educate children, this task is best accomplished when you have the home and school working together.
The bottom line is, that many parents of school age children do not speak English. The debate over whether they should really has no bearing on this topic. They don’t and it is critical for the schools system to communicate effectively to all parents.
I totally support Dr. Walts providing this service in Spanish. (or any language that best provides communication between home and school) All communication coming from the school system should be in Spanish and in English. To do otherwise is self-defeating.
Concerned,
The Korean population is no where near as large as the hispanic population in Prince William County Schools. I would not be opposed to all notices being offered in Korean either. As populations grow, then notices in other languages will be provided. Obviously the school system cannot reach all parents of all children who do not speak English. However, to ignore at least a quarter of your school population would be pure stupidity.
English translators are provided in the courts by the following state code:
§ 8.01-384.1:1. Interpreters for non-English-speaking persons in civil cases.
A. In any trial, hearing or other proceeding before a judge in a civil case in which a non-English-speaking person is a party or witness, an interpreter for the non-English-speaking person may be appointed by the court. A qualified English-speaking person fluent in the language of the non-English-speaking person may be appointed by the judge of the court in which the case is to be heard unless the non-English-speaking person shall obtain a qualified interpreter of his own choosing who is approved by the court as being competent.
B. To the extent of available appropriations, the compensation of such interpreter shall be fixed by the court in accordance with guidelines set by the Judicial Council of Virginia and shall be paid from the general fund of the state treasury as part of the expense of trial. The amount allowed by the court to the interpreter may, in the discretion of the court, be assessed against either party as a part of the cost of the case and, if collected, the same shall be paid to the Commonwealth.
C. Whenever a person communicates through an interpreter to any person under such circumstances that the communications would be privileged, and such persons could not be compelled to testify as to the communications, this privilege shall also apply to the interpreter. The provisions of this section shall apply in circuit courts and district courts.
(1996, c. 559; 2003, c. 1011.)
§ 19.2-164. Interpreters for non-English-speaking persons.
In any criminal case in which a non-English-speaking person is the accused, an interpreter for the non-English-speaking person shall be appointed. In any criminal case in which a non-English-speaking person is a victim or witness, an interpreter shall be appointed by the judge of the court in which the case is to be heard unless the court finds that the person does not require the services of a court-appointed interpreter. An English-speaking person fluent in the language of the country of the accused, a victim or a witness shall be appointed by the judge of the court in which the case is to be heard, unless such person obtains an interpreter of his own choosing who is approved by the court as being competent. The compensation of an interpreter appointed by the court pursuant to this section shall be fixed by the court in accordance with guidelines set by the Judicial Council of Virginia and shall be paid from the general fund of the state treasury as part of the expense of trial. Such fee shall not be assessed as part of the costs unless (i) an interpreter has been appointed for the defendant, (ii) the defendant fails to appear, (iii) the interpreter appears in the case and no other case on that date, and (iv) the defendant is convicted of a failure to appear on that date the interpreter appeared in the case, then the court, in its discretion, may assess as costs the fee paid to the interpreter. Whenever a person communicates through an interpreter to any person under such circumstances that the communication would be privileged, and such person could not be compelled to testify as to the communications, this privilege shall also apply to the interpreter. The provisions of this section shall apply in both circuit courts and district courts.
(Code 1950, § 19.1-246.1; 1966, c. 240; 1974, c. 110; 1975, c. 495; 1978, c. 601; 1982, c. 444; 1985, c. 396; 1995, c. 546; 1996, c. 402; 2003, c. 1011; 2007, c. 383.)
dolph:
Balkanizing our country is pure stupidity. The common language of English has been key to America’s success over the centuries, and its ability to assimilate and integrate people from diverse nations and cultures all over the world. Never before in our history has an immigrant group demanded that we accommodate their language rather than learn English themselves.
I worked in Germany (legally) for a couple of years, not with the military but with an organization that required interacting on a daily basis with Germans. I learned German before going even though I did not intend to immigrate to that country permanently! Not once did I demand that Germans post signs or offer public services to me in English. In fact, I used some of my scarce free time away from the office to take evening courses at the German version of a community college to enhance my German language skills. Not once did I or any of my colleagues demand English instruction in German public schools for our children. If parents want public communications or instruction for their children in a language other than that of the nation in which they reside, they should pay for it out of their own pocket.
You are correct that the courts require localities to provide public education regardless of immigration status. That education, however, should be the same for all – no special privileges for anyone, including choice of language. The immigrant parents must take some responsibility at some point. That includes preparing their children for public education by having them first learn English, and by learning enough English themselves to understand what the schools are saying to them as parents. Providing instruction and communications to parents in Spanish or any language other than English is an unnecessary burden on taxpayers, and divides rather than unites our community.
Believe me, learning another language is not hard and can be done quickly when you need it to function in the society in which you are living. I’ve done it myself.
Concerned,
My remarks were not in any way meant to support illegal immigration. My words were to reinforce dealing practically with the hand you were dealt.
As for immigrant parents, many have not learned English. What little they know is from their children who are attending school and are either learning or have learned English. Schools not only have a responsibility to communicate with parents, they have a need to communicate effectively from matters relating to discipline, to what bus to put your kid on, to the correct time to have your child in school….the list goes on and on. Failure to communicate effectively just brings more problems into a school, especially those with large immigrant populations.
Many schools still are not communicating effectively since many have no on-site translator. Often foreign language teachers are pulled from class to translate to parents when the need arises. Is this the most effective use of personnel? I say no. If little Johnny, or lets say Juan, misbehaves in class and a parent must be contacted, who is going to communicate the problem to the parents? Sometimes Juan has to serve as translator. Now is this the fox guarding the henhouse or what?
Dolph, our schools are declining because of this bi-lingual non-sense! Get real would you! Additionally, we are paying for all of this! The ONLY reason we are in this situation is due to ILLEGAL immigration and the large influx of people (particularly Spanish speaking) that are associated with it.
Patriot,
Do you deny that schools must educate all children within their jurisdiction?
Do you feel it is critical for home and school to communicate?
Those are the only issues I am addressing in my comments. When you enter a school, the entire issue of legal vs. illegal becomes a moot point, not by choice but by rule of law. Don’t attempt to infuse the larger immigration issue into an institution that has no control over its clientele.
I stand firmly by my comments. Yes…our schools must educate (LEGAL) children. NOT the children of lawbreakers. Their countries of origin are responsible for them.
Patriot,
Then you are not upholding the rule of law.
It doesn’t matter what you and I think. We have to obey the existing laws. If we do not like them, we try to change them. We cannot pick and chose to obey only those that suit our political philosphies.
Actually, it is a loophole…so it doesn’t count in my book. I am fairly certain that the original intent of the law is for LEGAL (not illegal) children. So nice try dolph!
It is much like the hospitals servicing people without health insurance. It is meant for legal citizens (not for illegals who abuse the system).
Therefore, now that we have identified some clear “loopholes”…it is time for us to take action to close those loopholes.
When Congress mandates that employers provide COBRA for certain terminating employees, Congress doesn’t say the employer provide COBRA free of charge. So, when the Supreme Court says the schools have to provide schooling for illegal’s did they say it has to be FREE. When you want to enroll your child in a district other than where you live you must pay tuition.
I don’t see Supreme Court rulings as ‘loopholes.’ Schools must educate all those within their jurisdiction regardless of status.
HT8- operative words…in another district.
I find it hard to believe that your rule of law is so selective. It nullifies any legitimate arguments you might have on other issues of legality.
No one is asking that you like the supreme court ruling, but please accept that currently it is the law.
The ‘in another district’ are your words.
I said ‘a district other than where you live.’
What I should have said was ‘a district where you don’t live legally.’ As in the illegal aliens do not live in ANY district legally!!
So, where does the Supreme Court say we have to provide this education FREE???
If you don’t live in the school district LEGALLY you have to PAY!!!
HT8,
I am not going to play semantics with you. I paraphrased your words based on intent. You know jolly well how it all works. If you want to go to city schools and you live in Prince William County, you pay.
The Supreme Court issued a decision. I am not going to argue it with you. That ship has sailed.
The only advice I can give you is to try to get Congress to change the law.
Meanwhile, I support Dr. Walts ‘attempts to reach as many families as possible that will attend PWCS.
Dolph, get real! The intent of the law is for legal children. Just like the intent of our laws are suppose to keep illegals out of our country. The reason they don’t is because of the loopholes and lack of enforcement.
Personally, I feel that Dr. Walt is being devisive when he addressed the incoming hispanic students in their native language. How about all of the students that don’t speak English or Spanish? I guess they feel just as welcome. huh?
Patriot,
What law are you talking about? Plyler vs. Doe very much was about children of illegal immigrants.
I am not discussing illegal immigration. This ’sub-thread’ is about Schools sending messages in Spanish. I responded to Concerned 11:56 am.
What is it you want me to ‘get real’ about?
Dolph, you know just as well as we all do that illegal immigrants are here illegally and therefore should NOT be getting any benefits. It is a loophole that needs plugging up. Call it an oversight that someone made while making the law/ruling, or whatever! Does it make logical sense to have laws against being a ILLEGAL alien and then at the same time allow people to acquire benefits while being ILLEGAL. NO! Therefore, someone made a mistake with the law/ruling (a loophole) which should be fixed.
Additionally, until the issue gets resolved, people that cannot pass a competency test in English should not be placed in the same classes as English speaking children until they do pass those tests. By doing so, it slows the progress of all the kids down and takes away valuable time from English speaking kids that could be spent on more advanced studies.
Patriot,
The Supreme Court ruling is 25 years old. I simply do not know what to tell you other than to contact your congressional representative.
Meanwhile, we have to obey the law. Schools need to communicate effectively to those in their district.
If you are that bothered by Dr. Walts’ message in Spanish, then work for change at the national level, where the ruling was created. Don’t attack a man who is just trying to do the job for which he was hired.
Dolph, I am not attacking anyone. He, however, in my opinion is pandering like everyone else. Furthermore, we are trying to have things (loopholes) changed. The first amnesty is 21 years old! Look at the effects (because everyone was out to lunch for those years). Time to clean up the mess that the liberals created!
Patriot,
You weren’t the one attacking Dr. Walts over the Spanish message. However, I felt that you more than agreed with Concerned.
I don’t know why you say that the ‘liberals’ caused the mess when the first amnesty was granted in 1986 and the second one in 1990. Who were the presidents during both of these times? I will only let them off the hook if they vetoed the bills and were over-ridden.
I think business concerns and getting the almighty vote motivates politicians far more than concern for their fellow man.
Dolph,
you have to add that the one who granted temporary Protected Status to the Salvadorans was GW Bush. TPS is granted by the president and he has done it many times.
The funny thing about the 1986 amnesty is that we fail to see the positive outcomes because we focus on the immigrants we see. For example, there are good data showing that Salvadorans who were granted amnesty in the 80s’ and 90s’ are becoming U.S citizens (that includes passing a test and speaking English).
I think the problem with amnesty in the past is not about the people who were granted legal status but about not enforcing the law and implementing the changes promised.
TH,
I don’t think most people gave immigration much thought when immigration was a trickle rather than a flood. You might very well be correct.
“The first amnesty is 21 years old!”
And I should like to point out that Frank Wolf voted AGAINST it. I point that out for the benefit of folks (Advocator, for instance…not you, Patriot) who insist that Frank has no record on illegal aliens. I heard back from Wolf’s office and, aside from his consistent votes against amnesty, his voting record on this issue is exemplary!
Concerned
I agree with everything you’ve said here. It left me feeling ill when I saw Dr Walts. Enough of this already. I really think it’s time to take a closer look at the PWCPS. Don’t even get me started on the immunization verifacations and registration requirements. We must provide an education these kids, however that’s where it should end. Oh, let’s not forget those FREE MEALS.
I would love to know what efforts are made to verify income for all those receiving free meals. I think it might just be the honor system.
Dolph
Why would they verify income, look at all the money spent on mailing out the application to each and every household. The honor sytem indeed.
Lafayette,
The income verification should be verified because people cheat.
Dolph
There’s a whole lot of stuff that should be verified but isn’t.
There are always cheaters, and I am not saying it’s right. Heck, we should be able to verify legal status too. I mean verify legal satus on all individuals in the US.
So, great you get rid of all the illegals. What’s your plan to fill the social security coffer after their $7,000,000,000 annual input is gone? Don’t kid yourselves, if the feds wanted to deport illegals they would have done so decades ago. The reason The Feds haven’t is because they know these people give a lot more than they take. Who do you think built the houses you live in so you could buy them at affordable prices? I’d venture a significant number of folks on this blog have illegals caring for their children or elderly relatives.
OK so they send money back home - that’s the best form of foreign aid I can think of - one on one - no middle man government to siphon off the funds.
Let’s give some thought about how such laws could benefit future generations - talk about building terrorizm within our borders - how loyal will legal children of illegal immigrants feel being raised here knowing their parents were forced out by their own country?