"We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge" - Barack Obama (aka President Malaise)
Manassas Gets It’s Own Ward Churchill?
By Greg L | 8 September 2007 | Manassas City | 184 Comments
I’ve gotten word that we may have our own very own version of Ward Churchill right here in Manassas in the form of a new history teacher at Osborn High School. This person, I am told, launched into a tirade for a full class session this past first week of school telling her students that the United States had unlawfully seized Mexican territory with the Treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo and that illegal aliens thus had a legal right to disregard our immigration laws and national borders and reside in the United States. It’s the Aztlan agenda, right here in Manassas, courtesy of our public schools. How wonderful.
Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada. (For the race everything; outside the race, nothing.) [ref]
I’d really like to talk to some of the students who were subjected to this tirade.
UPDATE: The teacher’s name is Maria Acuna she teaches Spanish. One student said that she has told the students that no Mexican is really illegal because the U.S. stole Texas, Arizona, California, Nevada and New Mexico from Mexico. She has brought this up with this same class on two separate occasions.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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I would have thought that was how you heard about it…is this teacher still employed at OHS?
I haven’t heard anything about disciplinary action against this teacher. To the best of my knowledge, she’s still there.
That sure doesn’t sound like an SOL objective to me.
I wondered if this history teacher actually majored in history?
Here’s one answer to “what about illegal don’t you understand?”: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=xiomara%20e.%20corpeno&search=Search
Reminder: Sometimes kids like to allow a story to take on a life of its own. Let’s not tar and feather someone without a fair trial. None of us were in that classroom. The parents need to bring this lesson to the attention of administration.
IF students were told it is acceptable to be here illegally then a formal reprimand is in order. If there are future occurrences, then dismissal is in order.
With the anniversary of 9/11 coming up, I think everyone should be more concerned about the security of this country from people who originate in regions of Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and other hostile places getting into our country under the radar screen and smuggling in a dirty bomb… No, let us instead keep our focus on groups of people whose only crime is they would pack themselves inside of a crate to find work that is obscenely below minimum wage! Where is your sense of priority? Where is your sense… period?
This arguement about these people is about as stupid as the one that lead me and my company into Bagdad. We were after bin laden since he and his radical cukes crashed OUR planes into OUR WTC and PENTAGON. What the hell are you crying about when this is still the real and only threat! Keep going on this far off beaten track and you might all convince yourselves that hey, so dam insane had something to do with the 9/11 attacks! …Of course he did since that was a good media distraction and so is this one!!!
Amen, Disgusted Veteran.
AMEN to both dolph and Disgusted Veteran! With blinders on one gets a very narrow view.
Good God, for a former military man you sure don’t see the big picture now do you DV?? Border security IS what we are concerned about here. If 20+ million people can waltz across our southern border unimpeded while I have to toss out my water bottle and toothpaste when I board a flight, don’t you think something is very wrong with the system? I laugh when I go through airport security because it is SUCH a waste of time when they let every Pablo, Juan and Achmed stroll into this country without a second glance. I know a lot of military people since I grew up in a military family and I can say without a doubt that IF you truly ARE military then you have some serious tunnel vision. My guess is that you are a lib in disguise.
Lovisa: siding with someone who claims to be former military barking about security, yet doesn’t see the importance of securing our borders and knowing just who is in this country is not helping your cause any.
You people that are for open borders and chaos in your communities just flabbergast me. When there is an attack (and there will be due to these unsecured borders) I will make it my mission in life to shine the light on every cockroach that advocated for open, unsecured borders (politicians included) and will make sure that the public knows who they are and that they allowed it to happen. Maybe then we will get a little justice in this country as the blame hammer comes down.
And another thing, don’t presume to tell me that because I am concerned about who is living in my neighborhood, the trash they create, the crimes they commit, the money they STEAL from me through undeserved benefits, the inconvenience they are to me through a 30% longer commute than 5 years ago that my arguments and my concerns for my community are senseless. Not all of these people are here to work and provide for their families. Many thousands are here to do mischief. It is also background investigation 101 that someone who is desperate or can be manipulated through blackmail (illegal aliens) can be used to do any number of things for people with ill intent (terrorists), or didn’t they teach you that in the military…
Wake up people: Many, many thousands of illegal aliens are clear and present dangers to the security of this country.
Disgusted Veteran,
Dave B made some very good arguments, but he forgot to mention that illegal aliens kills more Americans each year than terrorists have ever killed in America. Clearly the illegals are the greater threat.
…and “DV” (perhaps not a veteran at all) presumes that we deal with only one threat at a time — I sure hope not! Take your blinders off, DV or there’ll be nothing left with which to fight the Muslim threat!!
Dave B.
You are absolutely correct!
If I were coming here from the desert to commit a terrorist act, I’d come in through Mexico. Easiest route in.
Also should have mentioned, fewer Americans troops have died in five years of fighting the war in Iraq, than have been killed by illegals in this country in a single year. And Disgusted Veteran doesn’t think illegal immigration is threat, even though the causes he promotes, the fight against domestic terrorism and the war in Iraq, have killed fewer Americans. Unbelievable!
And how many legal Americans have been killed by legal Americans?
Numbers, please!
Dave B. and friends I can always show up at your home to show you my credentials and yes a Conservative to boot.
And JM - “fewer American troops have died in five year of fighting the war in Iraq than have been killed by illegals in this country in a single year” . How many American troops have been killed by illegals in this country?
Dolph-
You made an excellent point in regards the history teacher. The facts need to be clear and looked into.
The borders are not secure and that is the whole point, ANYONE can come into the USA and I am sure they have and are already here.
The other thing I thought of this morning is,now that the Truckers are let into our country, What next? Where are they going? Have we not been warned of terror attacks via tucks, etc on our highways?
Check this youtube clip out about the response from the Bush administration about the THREAT that the president of Mexico spoke of. I take what he said as a threat, period.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1RqLTDoFUk
Illegal Aliens the real threat to this Nation!
Nearly Ten thousand American citizens are killed each year by Illegal Aliens! This number is greater than 9/11 & our troops killed combined since 9/11!
Tens of thousands more are assaulted, robbed, & raped!
By the government own figures there are over 250,000 Illegal Aliens sexual Criminals in the USA! Illegal aliens account for sixty-five percent of communicable diseases in the United States (2004 numbers). The FBI estimates that 50,000 of the 100,000 gang members in LA county in Calif. Are Illegal Aliens from South of the Border!
Million of Lives are Destroyed by the Estimated 128 Billion of Drugs pouring across our Borders from Mexico each year & thousands of Public Officials are Corrupted by the Vast sums of money Available from the Mexican Drug Cartel!
Each day up to another 10,000 Illegal Aliens are pouring across our Borders. Our Politicians and President have sold This Nation out to Big Business, the Mexican Drug Cartel & to the racist hate group La Raza!
62% of all “undocumented immigrants” in the United States are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens, working without a green card;
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens;
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens;
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens;
75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens;
No ethnic group in the U.S. is producing out-of-wedlock children at a higher rate than Hispanics.
More than 380,000 “anchor babies” were born in the United States in 2005 were to parents who are illegal aliens; making those 380,000 babies automatically U.S. citizens. 97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayer;
More than 66% of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers;
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally;
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally;
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally;
29% (6 30,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually;
More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens;
More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border;
More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens;
More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens;
58% of all Welfare payments in the United States are issued to illegal aliens; If you consider free medical care & the 7 to 10 thousand dollars required to Educate their Many Children each year then the Welfare number is near 100%.
Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties in the United States are illegal aliens;
More than 34% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens;
More than 24% of Arizona students in grades 1-12 are non-English-speaking;
More than 39% of California students in grades 1-12 are illegal aliens;
More than 42% of California students in grades 1-12 are non-English-speaking;
In Los Angeles County, 5.1 million people speak English; 3.9 million speak Spanish;
More than 71% of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by illegal aliens or transport “coyotes”;
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens;
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens;
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66%, 98% are illegal aliens;
Less than 2% of illegal aliens in the United States are picking crops, but 41% are on welfare;
Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration;
The estimated profit to U.S. corporations and businesses employing illegal aliens in 2005 was more than $2.36 TRILLION dollars;
The cost of immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year, [Professor Donald Huddle, Rice University]; the cost is MANY TIMES GREATER now in 2006! In 2006 the average cost of each Illegal Alien here is 11,000.00 per year for American Taxpayers!
When Illegal Aliens are deported to their own countries:
1. Our Federal & State Welfare cost will decrease by Billions & State our tax Receipts will increase by billions
2. Our crime & cost, both in money and human suffering will take a Hugh drop down
3. Our schools will make a great improvement in the education of our children & cost decrease
4. Innovation will increase
5. Medical care will improve and cost will go down
6. Insurance cost will decrease
7. The increase in wages & the 60 billion currently going out of country now will create a large increase in demand for goods and services & new businesses and expanding business & our economy will soar
8. Even business that think they must have Slave labor to survive will find they are more profitable & new revenues & sources for profits will increase. (As Henry Ford discovered if he wanted to sell cars he must pay a livable wage so people could afford his cars)
9.. Our standard of living will go up
10.. But maybe the most important benefit will be stopping the influx of Illegal Aliens with their Loyally to other Nations & hate for all things American, that if left unchecked will tear our society apart!
here is more on the truckers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAvqqLCmdCY
BL - My gosh, that’s a lot of numbers! As an aside: the drugs wouldn’t be smuggled in if it weren’t for the demand in the USA. Or do you believe that the illegal aliens are the ones buying the stuff? Your last point (10). Why are the illegal aliens coming here if they hate all things American? Doesn’t make much sense, does it?
Porous borders = THREAT.
People that offer poor people south of the border large sums of money to carry out “bad” activities = THREAT.
You people that don’t see these things are living in lunacy!
Lovisa,
Your questions are entirely irrelevant. The point is that people who have no right to be in this country are killing thousands each year. They must be removed.
Lovisa, everything is our (this nation’s) fault in your opinion right? CAN YOU HEAR ME? You are ridiculous! It is people like YOU that keep these problems going! Why don’t you quit supporting the illegals and start helping us keep our country from declining into a 3rd world cesspool!
If you don’t want to do that…LOVISA….I wonder if you even love our great nation!?! Yes…I am calling you out in the open!
Kudos to Disgusted Veteran (& supporters) for your correct take on this issue. Where are our priorities? Just think, I once considered relocating to PWC - glad I didn’t - I couldn’t stomach the narrow-minded politicians and “civic” groups like Save Manassas running the show. Don’t get me wrong. I do want to see the borders sealed. And I do want to see the undesirable illegals deported asap. Illegal alien gang members should be deported right away. Felons? Guilty of a violent crime? Serve your time and then get deported. If you’re deported and caught sneaking back in, 5 years or more minimum mandatory behind bars. Convicted of less serious crimes? You could face deportation too. But what about the millions of illegal aliens who are otherwise law-abiding, hard-working and making an effort to assimilate? Don’t force them underground. Open the doors to legal residence and then citizenship. Many if not most are hard workers and filling jobs Americans are unwilling to fill. No I’m not a big Bush supporter but this is one issue where the nuts and bolts of his plan made good sense to me.
Patriot,
Your are so right and Lovisa is what I would call a DISTRACTION.
Record Guy -
How can you be an “illegal alien” and “law-abiding” at the same time?
Recordguy said “But what about the millions of illegal aliens who are otherwise law-abiding”. These people participate in more criminal activities by being illegal (getting benefits only meant for legal citizens…stealing; forging documents….identity theft; stealing and using stolen social security numbers…identity theft; etc.). Nice try!
Lovisa said on 9 Sep 2007 at 11:12 am:
And how many legal Americans have been killed by legal Americans?
Numbers, please!
You just don’t get it do you lovisa? Americans have a RIGHT to be in this country. ILLEGAL’S don’t! End of story.
recordguy- We’re glad you didn’t move to PWC either!
Recordguy probably lives in………..hmmm………ARLINGTON???
“Lovisa said on 9 Sep 2007 at 11:12 am:
And how many legal Americans have been killed by legal Americans?
Numbers, please!”
I think if you ask Wanda Angelos or anyone that has had a family member or friend die at the hands of an ILLEGAL, they would probably tell you to shove your numbers up you a**I know I would! My heart goes out to the family and friends of the victims and still keep you in our prayers
To manassascityresident - if you carefully read what I said, I was talking about illegal aliens who are OTHERWISE law abiding.
Hey Patriot - I don’t even live in Virginia but do live in the South. I did live in DC and then VA in the 70’s . You make a good point though -many illegals steal, commit welfare fraud, insurance fraud, etc., etc. They’re not the ones who I was referring to as ‘otherwise law abiding’. Eventually they probably should be deported. But we need to prioritize - i.e. deport the violent criminals and serious felons after they serve their time behind bars, deport gang members or fringe affiliates. And let’s not limit it to Mexicans. We need to deport undesirable illegals from other Latin American countries, the Middle East, Russia, wherever; and I hear certain parts of the U.S. are being flooded with illegals from Ireland. Whaddya think of that?
louvisa said,
“…and how many legal Americans have been killed by legal Americans? Numbers, please!”
“Please,” louvisa…I don’t recally anyone trying to justify American citizens killing anyone….and the fact that it does happen hardly justifies turning a blind eye on those killers who shouldn’t be here in the first place. Come on….:(
Oh, and by the way, you mentioned “…legal Americans…”; is there such a thing as an “illegal American”? I can understand someone from Latin America being in this country illegally, but an illegal alien hardly warrants the distinction of “illegal American.”
People:
When the terrorist attack comes, you have nobody to blame but the likes of Lovisa, Pelosi, Rishell, Lyall, Bush, Cheney and every other liberal and/or corporate ass kissing snake that thinks wide open borders and illegal aliens just trying to make a living was an acceptable idea. These are the types of people that will be to blame when the attack comes (and it will). I hope they get their reward for it too when the American people realize that it was these policies that allowed one or more of our cities and the economy to go up in smoke. As sure as I am sitting here today, the attacker(s) and methods used will have come from the Mexican border. Don’t you believe it for one second when they backpedal and try to tell you that the attackers didn’t come from sneaking through the border because they will be in full out wag the dog C.Y.A. mode. It’s like a train wreck in slowmo…
Has anyone substantiated that a teacher at Osborne HS said those things in a class room?
If so who was the teacher? and has the school authorities been told?
Those of you that live in that school district and have children or had children go to Osborn should keep on this story. Get the facts and if true get the new school teacher dismissed.
Lovisa, the troll…mindless, senseless, knee-jerk comments. I think he/she hates America and is an ILLEGAL ALIEN….DEPORT her NOW!
Recordguy,
re: if you carefully read what I said, I was talking about illegal aliens who are OTHERWISE law abiding.
There are some folks on here who do not believe there is any such thing as ‘illegal aliens who are otherwise law abiding.’ They are ‘all or nothing’ type folks who lie in wait for people who have opinions that differ from their own to discredit them with tired old rhetoric and name calling.
You make some very good points about prioritizing our immigration problems. Obviously that is what is going to have to happen. Otherwise we continue our silent amnesty which is where we are right now.
Here’s some info regarding BL’s 11:27 comment — some info is substantiated, other parts aren’t.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp
“Is there such a thing as an “illegal American””
According to current laws, the children of illegals are considered “legal Americans.”
Terrorist infiltrating through Mexico:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ4xP596k3o
Deport ALL illegal aliens no matter where they are from!
Patriot,
Please explain to the peanut gallery how you propose deporting ALL illegal aliens no matter where they are from. Start with the round up and continue until you get them all back to their country of origin.
Dave B.,
In response to your comment at 1:14
I think you will like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0O0wl_UaU8
BL:
That’s a nice long list of pretty disturbing statistics. But as we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Without any sort of attribution, it is impossible to assess the veracity of your statistics. Please tell us where you got these numbers so the rest of us can evaluate whether they are accurate or not. Some of them I find quite plausible. Others I find somewhat ludicrous. And still others, I find hard to believe the statistic could even be collected (i.e., how is it possible to determine that 41% of food stamps go to illegals?).
This is only one example of why it is so important for our local governments to be able to ID people who are seeking social services. Libs love to say we can’t track the numbers, and want proof, then they try to impede anyone or agency that does seek to determine the facts.
Dolph, I am tired of you saying that. I don’t propose just rounding everyone up. I have stated many times what an adequate solution is:
1. Shut down businesses that hire illegal aliens.
2. Cut ALL benefits from illegal aliens.
3. Enforce existing laws.
So please refrain from your nonsense!
“If I were coming here from the desert to commit a terrorist act, I’d come in through Mexico. Easiest route in.”
The easiest route in is actually the Northern Border between Canada and the United States, and actually, the terrorists appear to know that as well as every terrorist-related arrest made by DHS has been along our northern border.
If pourous borders are our biggest threat, and this isn’t about “brown people,” how come no one is advocating for a northern fence? Canada actually has a fairly large muslim population and there have been “sleeper cells” documented in Canada. Why are we only building a fence along the Southern border?
The Northern border is the longest undefended border in the world, and is almost double the length of the border between the United States and mexico. Yet, there are only about 1000 border patrol agents assigned to the northern border.
The northern border is without a doubt our most pourous border and the most dangerous. We don’t pay attention to it because there aren’t a bunch of Mexicans crossing it on a daily basis, but there could be terrorists crossing on a daily basis and we would never know.
If you really are concerned with the security of this country, you ought to be a hell of a lot more concerned about our northern border, almost anyone could come across that border unchecked and undeterred. And as I said before, every terrorist-related arrest that has been made at a border crossing has been made along that northern border.
Why isn’t anyone here advocating for a Northern Border? What you waiting for, a bunch of canadians to move into the neighborhood before you declare a “security crisis”?
Patriot I have a question for you: Since you are for closing down businesses who hire illegals. How would you feel about politicians who take money from companies who have been busted for hiring illegal aliens?
Anon, those politicians should not be re-elected!
WOW! Checking this amusing forum after I got home from a lovely luncheon with my friends (yes, I DO friends) I find myself, as per DAVE B, in the company of the President, the Vice President, and the Speaker of the House as one of the guilty should another terrorist attack take place.
The Patriot (does he have stars in his eyes and wear a striped shirt?) calls me out in the open. For what? A duel? - “Do you even love the country?” You bet I do! I’ve lived in a couple of other countries and this is the best. - Nowhere else would I be called an “ass kissing snake” (not MY choice of words) in a public forum, but here we have freedom of speech. I LOVE IT!
The topper is JUSTICE who says I hate America, I am an illegal alien and demands my deportation NOW! I believe you’d have to prove a few things before that could happen. YOU figure it out.
Patriot,
I am not the one who said ‘Deport ALL illegal aliens no matter where they are from!’ I just wanted to know how you proposed to do this. I don’t know of anyway to deport anyone unless you round them up (detain) them first.
How is it nonsense to ask a person about their plan of action? I was just taking you at your word.
Dolph, you have been on this blog for a while now! I have stated my approach many times! Lovisa, the ONLY reason you love this country is because you can get away with NON-ASSIMILATION. Your statements clearly support causes that would serve to divide this nation (which isn’t showing love for this nation at all)!
“Anon, those politicians should not be re-elected!”
That’s interesting, because here is what I’ve found from Vpap about Smithfield Foods donations last year. You will recall that last year in November Smithfield was busted for the hiring of illegal workers, I’m sure you are all aware that Smithfield has again been busted just a month ago:
http://vpap.org/donors/results_level2.cfm?Key=ORH000201016
Partisan Breakdown
Republican: $73,650 (76%)
Democrat: $23,250 (24%)
Other: $500
The Partisan Breakdown includes only donations to candidates, state party committees and leadership committees.
All Donations
48 donations totaling $97,400
Candidate/Committee Contributions Gifts
Albo, David B (R-H042) $1,000
Amundson, Kristen (D-H044) $250
Bell II, J Brandon (R-S022) $1,000
Building a Better Virginia (R-TPAC) $5,000
Bulova, David (D-H037) $250
Byron, Kathy J (R-H022) $500
Callahan Jr, Vincent F (R-H034) $500
Commonwealth Victory Fund (D-PAC) $10,000
Cuccinelli, Ken (R-S037) $500
Devolites Davis, Jeannemarie (R-S034) $1,000
Dominion Leadership Trust PAC (R-TPAC) $2,500
Griffith, H Morgan (R-H008) $1,000
Hall, Franklin P (D-H069) $1,000
Hamilton, Phillip A (R-H093) $1,000
Houck, R Edward (D-S017) $1,000
House Republican Campaign Committee (R-PAC) $10,250
Joannou, Johnny S (D-H079) $1,000
Lambert, Benjamin J III (D-S009) $1,000
Landes, R Steven (R-H025) $500
Lohr, Matt (R-H026) $250
Majority Whip PAC (R-TPAC) $1,000
Martin, Stephen H (R-S011) $500
McDonnell for Virginia (R-TPAC) $20,000
McEachin, A Donald (D-S009) $1,000
Moran, Brian J (D-H046) $1,000
Nixon Jr, Samuel A (R-H027) $500
Norment, Thomas K Jr (R-S003) $2,500
Peace, Christopher (R-H097) $500
Poisson, David (D-H032) $250
Putney, Lacey E (I-H019) $500
Quayle, Frederick M (R-S013) $1,000
Republican Party of Virginia (R-PAC) $10,000
Reynolds, W Roscoe (D-S020) $500
Ruff, Frank M Jr (R-S015) $500
Saslaw, Richard L (D-S035) $1,000
Shannon, Stephen (D-H035) $500
Spruill Sr, Lionell (D-H077) $500
Stolle, Chris (R-H083) $1,500
Stolle, Kenneth W (R-S008) $150
Ticer, Patricia S (D-S030) $500
Va Legislative Black Caucus (D-PAC) $2,500
Va Senate Democrat Caucus (D-PAC) $1,000
Va Senate Republican Leadership Trust (R-PAC) $10,000
Ware, Lee (R-H065) $500
Pretty interesting stuff, the VA Senate Republican Leadership Trust took $10,000 from Smithfield….oh my!
And from open secrets.org which lists the donations for all the federal candidates:
Boucher, Rick (D-VA) $2,000
Cantor, Eric (R-VA) $2,000
Davis, Jo Ann (R-VA) $2,000
Drake, Thelma (R-VA) $2,000
Forbes, J Randy (R-VA) $1,250
Goode, Virgil H Jr (R-VA) $3,000
Goodlatte, Bob (R-VA) $2,000
And those are just the totals from last year, these people have taken gobs of money over the years and are probably taking money this year as well.
ANON said “How would you feel about politicians who take money from companies who have been busted for hiring illegal aliens?”
I agree with Patriot that those pol’s should not be reelected.
What do you think about politicians who take money from illegal aliens?
(does Hsu ring a bell?)
Patriot — “Your statements clearly support causes that would serve to divide this nation (which isn’t showing love for this nation at all)!”
And your words aren’t divisive??
Go here to see who “shouldn’t be relected” this year
http://vpap.org/donors/results_level2.cfm?Key=ORH000201016
“Libs love to say we can’t track the numbers, and want proof, then they try to impede anyone or agency that does seek to determine the facts.”
Prove it.
Anon
” who “shouldn’t be relected” this year”
you forgot to include virtually ALL of the Dem’s running for Pres. next year in your summary of pol’s that should not be reelected.
convenient use of facts?
“Anon
” who “shouldn’t be relected” this year”
you forgot to include virtually ALL of the Dem’s running for Pres. next year in your summary of pol’s that should not be reelected.
convenient use of facts?”
Nope, I just limited myself to the only two companies in the last year who have been actually busted for hiring illegals, Smithfield and Swift & Co. The only presidential candidate from either party who has taken money from them is Rudy Giuliani.
And which of the Dem’s running for president next year have taken money from companies know to have hired illegals? And what companies are you referring to? Care to list the companies? I’d be more than happy to look over their expenditures and see who took more money the GOP or the DEms. No doubt about it, it’s the GOP. I promise you.
But feel free to prove me wrong. Name the companies and we’ll check the records. As for now, we’ll go with the only two who have actually been busted by the federal authorities, and since we’re talking about VA we’ll stick to VA politicians.
It’s GOP hands down who has taken the most money. Smithfield hasn’t donated to a single one of the Dem presidential candidates. not one.
lol Anon,
Va Legislative Black Caucus (D-PAC) $2,500
Republican Party of Virginia (R-PAC) $10,000
Commonwealth Victory Fund (D-PAC) $10,000
guess all the D’s and R’s need to go.. how many I’s are running?
Anon,
“Nope, I just limited myself ”
pretty much says it all….
How convenient is it that you “limit yourself” to your own small world of facts.
enough said…. tks
And you forgot this one: House Republican Campaign Committee (R-PAC) $10,250
That’s 12,500 for the D Leadership PACs and 20,250 for the R Leadership PACs. Neither side is very clean in this.
But the real question is, which side is running around saying they are going to deal with the illegal immigration problem? Exactly, the GOP is just as full of crap as the D’s. They’re ALL taking money. Go look at the list it’s disgusting. what’s even more disgusting is that the one party who claims it’s going to solve the problem is the party who is taking the most money 3-1. 76% of the donations went to the GOP.
Anon,
Putney, Lacey E (I-H019) $500
sorrry looks like the I’s are gone also…
the way I count it looks like there were donations to 15 D’s and 18 R’s (individuals), hardly a resounding level to one party over another if you ask me.
“Anon,
“Nope, I just limited myself ”
pretty much says it all….
How convenient is it that you “limit yourself” to your own small world of facts.
enough said…. tks”
LOL! what are you dense? My own “small little world of facts?” No actually I used the facts that are widely available to the public. The only fair thing to do is to look at the companies who have been busted so that we can honestly claim the politicians knew better (both Ds and Rs), otherwise you’re just making wild accusations.
Smithfield was busted in 2006 and again just a month ago, any politician who takes money from them can’t claim they didn’t know for sure that they were hiring illegals, they’ve been busted by the feds.
I’m just doing the fair thing, making sure that the company was proved to have hired illegals.
“the way I count it looks like there were donations to 15 D’s and 18 R’s (individuals), hardly a resounding level to one party over another if you ask me.”
That’s laughable. Look at the amounts. The Vpap page says right at the top: 76% of the donations went to the GOP. Vpap breaks it down to partisan donations, don’t try to skew the facts.
The GOP is completely guilty on this one. It’s gross.
“They’re ALL taking money”
yes they are,
and as you point out the R’s seem to want to solve the problem.
Do you think that 100k in combined donations to “ALL” of these pol’s is going to make a difference if the problem needs to be solved? or that these companies will even miss that amount of money?
We may pay a bit more for a ham next year but the problem should still be solved. I’ll put my hope in someone that at least says they are going to address the problem.
“Dave B. and friends I can always show up at your home to show you my credentials and yes a Conservative to boot.”
Yea, like the “conservatives” on the Manassas Park City Council.
“1. Shut down businesses that hire illegal aliens.”
What in the world would we do without Wal-mart?
“The Vpap page says right at the top: 76% of the donations went to the GOP.”
ok you win..
D’s get bought out and will not address the issue for 23k in donations…
R’s take the 74k and do not bow to the pressure..
summary.. D’s are a cheaper date?
“and as you point out the R’s seem to want to solve the problem. ”
NO, the Rs “say” they want to solve the problem. In reality, they protect the employers, it’s why there is no legislation to crack down on employers. None, at all. Not from the Ds and not from the Rs.
And yes, I do the the contributions stop the pols from cracking down on employers, the evidence of that is that not a single one of these pols talks about really cracking down on employers.
It’s the Rs on the federal level who are most guilty of this. The state guys have no say so in federal immigration policy, but the congressmen and senators, ALL guilty of pay-to-play with the employers of illegal immigrants.
I find it hysterical that you are willing to ignore this just becuase the Rs are guilty of it. The single most important thing driving illegals coming to this country are the corporations who offer them jobs. STop the jobs, and the illegals stop coming.
Anon,
This issue will not be solved until the States put enough pressure on the Fed’s to do what needs to be done.
stop the jobs AND stop the taxpayer funded handouts.
final word: put those who say they will solve the problem in position to do so.. keep out those who ignore the issue or refuse to address it.
“final word: put those who say they will solve the problem in position to do so.. keep out those who ignore the issue or refuse to address it.”
Final word: Those who said they would solve the problem were in power from 1994 - 2006….they did nothing. And going back twenty + years to the first time we dealt with this mess (which has now created an even larger mess) you know who was in charge of that? that’s right, the GOP, it was “Reagan Amnesty.” Why do you think anything will change?
Nothing will change unless you hold them all accountable equally instead of ignoring the sins of one party over another just out of partisanship.
you are being duped by the GOP, at least the Dems have the decency to tell you to your face what they plan to do.
Could some of you anons and anonymous just make up some stupid name and use it please? This is beginning to look like a family where all the kids are named the same thing.
I haven’t heard word one on this blog about the STRIVE Act.
The Patriot - “the ONLY reason you love this country is becuase you can get away with NON-ASSIMILITATION.” What does that mean? Can you give me, if not an explanation, at least a hint of what you mean, please. I would hope that everybody would allow everybody to assimiliate in his/her own way and that we would help alongthe way by learning more about each other and try to understand our differences.
OK, so I’m a bleeding heart who supports Amnesty International, HOPE, CARE, Doctors without Borders, Salvation Army and other organizations who believe in the dignity of each person and that one of the purposes in life is to try to make life better for one’s fellow human beings.
My sermon for this Sunday!
Dolph said:
“There are some folks on here who do not believe there is any such thing as ‘illegal aliens who are otherwise law abiding.’ They are ‘all or nothing’ type folks who lie in wait for people who have opinions that differ from their own to discredit them with tired old rhetoric and name calling. ”
I don’t recall any name calling - and EVERYONE is allowed to have an opinion. And it IS ok to disagree. And some “old rhetoric” needs repeating for SOME on this blog.
BL:
That’s a nice long list of pretty disturbing statistics. But as we all know, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Without any sort of attribution, it is impossible to assess the veracity of your statistics.
Thank you “Turn PW Blue” - To BL: I have seen statistics such as these several times before and each time the % of crime, fraud, prison populations, etc. attributed to illegal aliens seems to be growing. These “statistics” (or should I say rants) are becoming more akin to urban legend, not unlike the size of John Dillinger’s pecker or its whereabouts for that matter (in a pickle jar at the Smithsonian?).
Seriously folks, we all know statistics can be manipulated in every which way but that’s not to say that illegals from south of the border don’t present a serious problem Whatever these statistics represent, keep in mind they are national in scope. The problem is far more serious in the border states (CA, NM, AZ, NV and TX). Where I live, a few hundred miles and a half day’s drive south of PWC, a large majority of the illegals from Latin America are here to work at various jobs Americans won’t or can’t fill - not to join gangs or bilk the system. This past spring I drove up Rte. 28 through Manassas and Manassas Park to Loudon Cty., noticed all the Latino business along the way. My gut feeling is that the illegal population in your area is more like mine than what you’ll find in East L.A. or Phoenix.
And thank you very much Dolph (and a few others) for your level-headed and pragmatic perspectives. As I’ve said before, there is a problem that will only be solved by closing the borders and deporting the criminals - those engaged in both violence and defrauding the system. But Patriot, your name belies your views. I would think that you’d want what’s best for this country and that certainly isn’t deporting all illegal aliens summarily, closing all businesses that employ illegal aliens or such other extreme (and impossible to carry out) measures that will polarize our country. Patriot, after all the illegals are deported, I suggest that when you go a restaurant and your dinner is served on a dirty plate, you go into the kitchen and wash the dishes for minimum wage because there just aren’t any Americans willing to take that job. And in your spare time, go into the fields and pick those apples or strawberries before they rot on the tree or vine. Is that best for America? Will that prevent a terroristic attack?
Hey, I think No. VA is a great place. It doesn’t deserve a national reputation as a breeding ground for intolerance. Your local response needs to be more measured. I’m seeing a knee jerk reaction here in response to the lack of a national immigration plan or policy being put into effect. So what if you’re neighbor is into salsa music. It’s not exactly my cup of tea either but I definitely prefer it over rap and hip hop with its profane lyrics and anti-establishment (and anti-law enforcement) lyrics. And isn’t listening to salsa better than living next to a house full of burnouts blaring thrash metal all thru the night?
PWC, the ball’s in your court.
Did check out a summary of the Strive Act. DHS are the same people that can’t pay bills and get a payroll out, right? Talk about managing expectations. Looks like this include a guest worker program, legalizing ‘undocumented workers’. Also, allows increased numbers of working Visa’s. After reading this go to NUMBERSUSA.ORG and watch the gumball video.
The following story appeared in the Tucson Weekly on August 9, 2007.
SPEAKING OF TOUGH ON BORDER SECURITY
“After the Bush administration announced that it would start pulling National Guard troops off the Arizona-Mexico border, Gov. Janet Napolitano said she wanted to keep them there.
Napolitano says the troops, who have helped out around Border Patrol offices, built fences and occasionally manned checkpoints, have been a big help in securing the border.
The troops were always meant to be a temporary measure while the Border Patrol got busy hiring more agents.
Napolitano’s call to keep the troops is smart politics. Republicans in the Arizona Legislature have been calling for National Guard troops on the border for years. Napolitano’s request to keep them there helps her look like she’s tougher on illegal immigration than George W. Nice triangulation, Janet! ”
So why is this politics? Why is the point of the story to go after the Gov? This is why we have a problem. It is more important to point a finger and go after someone than it is to solve the problem.
Let’s not tighten up the Canadian border just yet. Some of us may want to go there.
MCR,
There is name calling all over this blog. I am still howling about Lovisa describing how she was called an ‘ass-kissing snake.’ Good for her for having a sense of humor, but it clearly illustrates the tone often used here.
As for repeating the same old rhetoric, after a point, it just looks like OCD, especially when used to attempt to shut others out because they disagree or have a different opinion.
——————————————————————————–
Additionally, I am appalled by the lack of civility and respect shown here. The last time I brought this issue up, I got ripped into like I was a newbie. Actually I have been online for the past 15 years and an quite familiar with people sititng behind computer screens, becoming whatever they want to be. However, I believe if a person is to be taken seriously, they have to conduct themselves in a manner that deserves respect. In other words, give a little get a little.
In particular, I am outraged at the lack of respect shown to Lovisa. How about those lost words, ‘I beg to differ ____?’ Anyone who fails to show a 79 year old lady basic respect should be bitch slapped.
MCR,
Below the dotted line is NOT directed at you. Just wanted to clarify.
“Could some of you anons and anonymous just make up some stupid name and use it please?”
Ok, I’ll take “George” like in all the Forman boys….
recordguy,
“I suggest that when you go a restaurant and your dinner is served on a dirty plate, you go into the kitchen and wash the dishes for minimum wage because there just aren’t any Americans willing to take that job. And in your spare time, go into the fields and pick those apples or strawberries before they rot on the tree or vine.”
This will not happen, contrary to what many folks want to believe, the dished got washed and the crops picked before this problem became what it is. Prices may go up to compensate but business will pay what is necessary to get things done. Also, laws can be adopted to allow for “legal workers” to provide jobs, if necessary. Most do not want to get rid of “ALL” immigrants only the ones who choose not to follow the laws of this country in the immigration process or any other illegal acts.
Thanks “George!”
Dolph — there is good humor here. The OCD comment is great!
Lovisa,
I respect your concern and support of all the organizations you mentioned, I also will donate to some of these organizations. However, I do this by choice and not because someone is taking advantage of the American system by ILLEGALLY securing healthcare, foodstamps, housing, ..etc… all paid for with my tax money (not by my choice).
As for assimilation “I bet to differ” people should NOT be allowed to “assimiliate in his/her own way “. They should do as was always done in America before the liberals decided to balkanize our country by allowing everything to be conducted in multiple languages instead of only English.
The old and proven immigration system seemed to work for many Koreans, Italians, Irish, Germans and Mexicans.. etc of the past; it would work just as well for those who wish to come into our country now.
George, I will always remember you as just anon!
To all those that support illegals,(y’all know who you are).
Why are they called illegal aliens?
Who on this board has defended Americans who have broken the law? Y’all think that because we have our own criminals, that it is ok to have illegals. Wrong. I will repeat what I have said before, nobody to my knowledge, has every made blanket statements such as All Americans are law abiding. All Americans work hard and contribute to the Country. All Americans are just trying to raise a family, otherwise law abiding Americans… Yet, that is exactly what we hear from y’all that defend illegals.
Current laws demands that we attempt to track down and deport every single illegal now in the Country. This is not just and idea that we on this blog want, but is the law. Yes, it will take a while, but with clear enforcement it will send a message to illegals they are no longer going to be able to live here. And, yes we should make life for them as hard as possible, and they should be as scared as possible, since after all they are here ILLEGALLY, not legal, but ILLEGALLY. So, save the stupid sob stories for your fellow bleeding heart liberal friends.
Are all bank robbers in jail? Are all people who have committed murder in jail? No, but does that mean law enforcement should just throw their hands up in the air, and say we simply cannot do the job of finding these criminals? No, they keep at it until they find these criminals. So, tell me what is so different about illegal aliens? Yes, of course there are more illegals running around then bank robbers and murderers, but that is no excuse to not do the job.
How many of the six men who were recently arrested after it was discovered they were planning to attack Fort Dix were here illegally? Had any of those here illegally had any prior involvement with law enforcement? I don’t think so. What is my point? Well, when I hear “otherwise law abiding illegal” I think about those men and other illegals who are here to do damage to my Country.
Did y’all hear about the fake ID ring that was busted in PW County? How many “otherwise law abiding illegals” were taking advantage of this service? BTW, even though the COMPOST did not fully explain it, they did mention immigration holds were put on the three men arrested for running the ring. What does that mean? They were illegal aliens.
Dolph,
Respect has to be earned. When people come on here with weak and mindless defenses on issues that have no defense, they simply will not be respected.
When people attempt to lie about and distort the issue, such as lumping all immigrants together to paint those that are against illegal immigration as being against all immigration, they are not deserving of respect.
When people attempt to lump illegals in with everyone else, they are not going to get respect.
It is that simple.
And, if I read correctly, a $13 MILLION drug ring was busted in HAZELTON, PA, and it was run by, guess, ILLEGALS.
Oh, I forgot to add one point. Yes, there are plenty of Americans who use drugs and or commit other crimes, but do we dismiss them and say because they are American we will simply ignore their law breaking?
Dolph - how about if we all called ourselves George Foreman?
Perhaps Lovisa should go back and actually READ my entry instead of just scanning it. That goes for you too dolph
I will explain it again for you so we can clear up the matter. The “ass kissing snakes” I was referring to were the corporate buttboys like Bush and Cheney and every other “GOP” member that is in this eyeball deep.
Lovisa was only referred to as a liberal, which depending on its depth can be just as bad…
READ the posts people. I know it can be hard, but let’s try and read them before making snap judgments.
Dave B. It doesn’t matter to whom you were referring. That kind of language is totally unnecessary in polite company. OOPS, I forgot ……
Dave,
I thought the ass kissing snakes were hilarious. Lighten up. I agree with you about them…meaning the ‘buttboys.’ I just pulled that out of a hat because I was still laughing over what both you and Lovisa both said. You invented them (the aks’s) and I shouldn’t have taken that as an example.
S
Lovisa,
Sorry, but I am still laughing. I sometimes stoop to the lowest common denominator. Forgive me please. I am not fit for polite company tonight.
COM,
We just have different values about respect. I try to be respectful to everyone unless I am given reason to do otherwise. Simply not agreeing with someone is no reason to be disrespectful.
Actually, if someone is 79 years old, I will pretty much always be respectful to them, regardless of my opinion or how much it differs from theirs. It is just the way I was raised. My mother would rise up and smack me up side the head if I were to do otherwise.
Dolph,
Yup we do have different values when it comes to respect. I respect rules and laws, and those that support illegal aliens show just how much they are willing to respect. I simply cannot respect people who have such an open hostility to the rule of law, and who support the continuing downfall of society into one that is not respectful of anything but seeing how many laws can be broken.
Opinions are fine, but this is not about opinions, this is about what the law says. As I said there is a reason why they are called illegal aliens.
Yes, there are a lot of very bad illegal aliens in our country; not only those commiting murders, rapes, armed robberies - but those importing and selling large quantities of drugs, running false i.d. rings, committing large scale welfare fraud. Of course they need to be deported but not until they are charged and found guilty at trial (or plea) and they serve their time in prison. This time behind bars will (hopefully) serve as a deterrent. Not much of a deterrent if one is simply deported (only to give them the opportunity to slip back into the country). But should we deport or make an effort to deport each and every illegal alien because the law says we have a right to? Should be punish every college student who drinks beer before turning 21? (as long as they don’t get behind the wheel of course). How about the millions who smoke pot in their homes or friends homes? Should they all be “weeded out” - then fined and ordered to perform community service? Should we load up the Beltway with troopers to ticket every car and truck clocked at 70 or more? Should you be subject to arrest if you curse out a jerk in public who steals a parking space you were about to pull into? The point is there are many laws on the books that are simply not enforced and shouldn’t be enforced. I don’t have a problem with police inquiring about proof of residency in connection with a lawful arrest or traffic stop (but this should be done across the board- even if the suspect looks “American”). But denying essential services such as health care to those who can’t prove legal residency is not a pragmatic solution and isn’t geared to apprehending the worst of those who are here illegally.
It is a federal law that health services be provided for everyone, but that it might not be is a scare tactic used by MSF/WWC/UITC to incite legals as well as illegals.
Recordguy,
Again what is so hard about illegal that you can’t seem to understand? Illegals should not be here in the first place. So, it does not matter who else may commit a crime, or how police go about enforcing other laws. BTW, the local police departments do joint ‘crackdowns’ on bad drivers, speeders etc a few times a year. Why do they do that? One to catch folks who are breaking the law, and to send a message to discourage aggressive driving. Every hear of DUI checkpoints? Why do you think the police hold them them all over the region throughout the year? Does it stop everyone that might drink and drive? No, but it has gone a long way to prevent many from doing it and bringing the issue to the forefront of society where DUI is simply not an acceptable thing to do anymore.
So, what would be so different if we had the same type of actions against illegals? Don’t you think it would be a deterrent for illegals to continue to come here? It would also make those already here think about leaving, since they realize they are going to get caught sooner or later.
Citizenofmanasses,
I don’t look at “crackdowns” of illegals as deterrents. That they aren’t. We shouldn’t be looking for deterrents to entering our country. What we need to do is a much better job “sealing our borders”. Then the question largely becomes what to do with aliens who have already entered our country illegally or who have expired visas. The point I keep making is we need to prioritize.
By the way, I’m all for DUI checkpoints and crackdowns. And for arresting drivers who go 90 in a 55 mph zone. Drunk and reckless driving are not acceptable. I was simply pointing out that under normal conditions cops seldom stop and ticket drivers going 1-10 mph over the speed limit. Are those drivers breaking the law? Technically. Are underage drinkers at frat parties breaking the law? Technically. But many laws do go unenforced and that’s perfectly acceptible to a very large majority of Americans.
George,
In response to your views on filling jobs which is”
“This will not happen, contrary to what many folks want to believe, the dished got washed and the crops picked before this problem became what it is. Prices may go up to compensate but business will pay what is necessary to get things done. Also, laws can be adopted to allow for “legal workers” to provide jobs, if necessary”.
Companies who hire unskilled factory workers, kitchen and janitorial help, construction laborers, lawn care and landscaping laborers, farm workers, etc. keep saying that if it weren’t for the illegals, they couldn’t fill those jobs - even if they offered more money. Times have changed and the job pool has changed. Things aren’t always what they used to be. How can you be so sure that they are wrong (or just plain lying)?
Where do you propose that a plant that employs a thousand or more unskilled workers go to fill those jobs? Should they recruit in the inner cities, offer the young men hanging out on the streets the chance to earn minimum wage in Smithfield packing meat products all day? Would $8.50 an hour entice them? $10.00 an hour? Or how about berry picking? Will they trade in their mall clothes for work gloves and a straw hat and live in a small trailer in the sticks? Maybe we can resurrect John Lomax and he can make some blues field recordings. Where are you Mississippi John Hurt when we need you?
Recordguy,
I agree with you about priorities.
Immigration issues are complex and people are all too quick to quote one-liner sound-bites to summarize how they wish things were rather than how things are.
Before the masses start demonizing the STRIVE Bill, they need to carefully look at the current laws concerning ‘illegals.’ It might be time to shore up what is criminal and what is ‘unlawful presence.’
Dolph,
Excellent points. There should be a distinction between engaging in criminal activity and mere unlawful presence.
dolph - I appreciate your defending me. More than that, I appreciate your thoughtful, levelheaded comments. However, the fact that I’ve managed to live as long as I have does not
mean that I automatically deserve respect. There are lots of nasty, old people out there. I bet some of the contributors here have lived longer than I. I just don’t understand why some of the language has to be so coarse.
I’m against age discrimination of any kind so,” citizenof manassas” and “Dave B.”, keep it coming. It’s good for old people to get the juices flowing and the brain working.
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/CVArticle.asp?ID=30626&pid=1606
This is a step in the RIGHT direction!
Lovisa,
I think that age does deserve respect. I don’t expect some whippersnapper to address me by my first name without invitation, trash-trap to me(I might trash trap them right back), or speak to me as if they were a peer. Perhaps the fact that I am no longer the spring chicken I once was makes me more strident about that fact.
And I agree, there are some real nasty old people out there. Those same nasty old people were probably nasty young people once and that nastiness has only been exacerbated by age. Perhaps I should say I believe that ‘people of multiple years’ should be treated with respect.
I was just always taught to respect my elders. (meaning to show respect) This was just one of those axioms of life, drilled in at an early age, that I never thought much about. I just did it. And I believe it has served me well.
Perhaps the modern version of what I was taught was the current expression, ‘Would you kiss your mother with that mouth?’
Sigh…perhaps I am showing my age. Actually I think I am really just asking people to exercise some propriety when addressing those who are obviously not their contemporaries.
Dolph
dolphin_moon@excite.com
Dolph, you know what? Reality is…in our liberal school systems….discipline in the classroom is no longer practiced. Kids run the show now! When I went to school….I wouldn’t think about talking back to any of my teachers! Nowadays, it seems like talking back is the norm due to the liberal concept of “children can say anything they want because they should be free thinkers”. Free thinking comes after learning discipline and structure NOT before. Thanks to the “new age” way of parenting by yours truly…the liberals!
Patriot,
It must be the schools. These same little so and so’s surely wouldn’t give their parents a bunch of slack jaw, now would they?
There are plenty of teachers out there who insist on good discipline. Why must EVERY discussion include the word ‘liberal?’ You think *I* am a liberal, I am sure, and I guarantee you I used to pop my own kids in the chops every time I got slack jaw from them. Oh geez, I should probably re-write that…my own children got their mouths slapped for sass and back talk.
How about lets just say that many children are not taught proper manners at home and remove labels from this discussion.
My children are now middleaged and quite liberal. They grew up in the very liberal San Francisco area, but they and their friends vere nothing but polite to their parents. My seven grandkids would never think of mouthing off to teachers or elders. So Mr. Patriot, lay off blaming your detested liberals for so much! It just aint so!
RecordGuy says:
‘By the way, I’m all for DUI checkpoints and crackdowns. And for arresting drivers who go 90 in a 55 mph zone. Drunk and reckless driving are not acceptable. I was simply pointing out that under normal conditions cops seldom stop and ticket drivers going 1-10 mph over the speed limit. Are those drivers breaking the law? Technically. Are underage drinkers at frat parties breaking the law? Technically. But many laws do go unenforced and that’s perfectly acceptible to a very large majority of Americans.’
How, may I ask, does some guy or guys driving over the speed limit by a few miles an hour or some underage drinkers have the same impact on our country as 20 million illegals? That is a rediculous argument. No disrespect intended.
Lovisa, seriously….where do you suppose the “new age” way of parenting came from? That would be a liberal idea would it not? Certainly not conservative! Get real.
Record guy,
Why do you support some deterrents for some crimes, yet not for others? If you agree they work for some, but not others why? Look at the reaction the PW County ordinance has already had. It does not make new law, just enforces current laws, and illegals are not exactly feeling welcomed in the County. How is that a failure?
Nobody I know or any public officials for that matter openly supports underage drinking. In fact many colleges(just this week, there was an article in the COMPOST about Georgetown cracking down on parties) are reacting to underage drinking. So, there goes another one of your weak arguments.
Again, illegals should not be here in the first place, end of story.
Of course we need to secure our borders in order to prevent more illegals from coming over. But, that is only half the issue. We have current laws(though Dolph seems unable or unwilling to understand that) that can be enforced.
Dolph,
This is not a sound bite. Tell me how wanting current laws to be enforced is a sound bite?
Again, respect is earned. I was raised to respect law enforcement, does that mean I have to respect even the bad cops? I was told to respect elected officials, should I respect those that have broken the law? I was told to respect my teachers, should I have to respect those that have sex with their students? I was raised to respect clergy, should I also respect those that have molested children?
Just because someone is older then me, does not automatically mean they have my respect.
And, since you seem to have all the answers, what would you do with illegals besides support them as you do now?
You are no better then the MJM, they are mealy mouthed liberals who love to defend illegals at all costs, yet can’t seem to come up with a solution because well it is too complicated of an issue to just enforce current laws.
What were the liberal ’60s all about? Not trusting anyone over 30, and sticking it to the “man”. If you liberals had any respect y’all would not support law breakers.
Dolph, the term “liberal” is a legitimate term is it not? It is quite humerous how you deem it a label! There are many proud liberals who spout the term off like nobody else! It is true, however, that the liberal agenda (as a whole) has created a whole mess of problems in our country that we are now having to clean up! And yes, I can see how one would not want to be associated with that! Also, I can say the same for Democrats and Republicans too! Those parties have had their share of bad politics too! That is why I am an independent (however, I will vote for Tom Tancredo).
The term is legitimate Patriot. It is just that you use it whenever you don’t have points against an argument. First you start with a lot of links to websites and then when people question your sources or arguments, you call them liberals. It they don’t stop, you just leave the discussion.
Recordguy.
Do you recall the meat packing plants that were busted for having illegal workers? Did they shut down because they did not have enough AMERICAN workers who were willing to do the jobs? I don’t think so. How about the company in Texas that recently laid off a bunch of people who were suspected illegals. Did they have any problems hiring new people? I don’t think so. Nice try though in trying to defend not kicking out illegals.
Do you travel much around the Country? If so, you would surely see many AMERICAN workers in jobs that you who support illegals say AMERICANS do not want to do.
Patriot,
You will be a perfect citizen of Cuba: One culture, one way of educating people, oppose those who disagree with your political agenda, etc.
What is wrong with the new age way of educating kids? It is America and you do what you think it is best for your kids.
COM,
“Did they have any problems hiring new people? I don’t think so.”
You are right about that,. They have long lines of american citizens waiting to be hired. You miss a big point, the ones that were hired, left after a couple of weeks of employment. They complained that it was too hard.
Nice try!
Of course liberals hate the term liberal because of what liberals have done to this Nation. The word Liberal conjures up bloated social programs that have failed, and other failed programs pushed by liberals. They want to get as far away from that term as possible. Liberals just about destroyed this Nation in the ’60s in a “in your face style”, now they are in the classrooms, and on college campuses spewing their anti-American agenda.
Why do you think there are folks who defend the NEA, ACLU etc. Because they agree with their agendas, and see nothing wrong with them.
SEEYOURPROBLEM,
Any fact to back that up? And if those AMERICANS did quit who is doing the jobs now? More illegals? Do you really think AMERICANS are incapable of doing hard work? Are you that self loathing? IF AMERICANS are not willing to do hard work, exactly how did we get to the point we are?
IF AMERICANS are unwilling to do hard work, does that mean EVERY SINGLE construction job, field job etc is being held down by an illegal?
SEEYOURPROBLEM,
On the contrary, you would love CUBA, since it is a Communist Nation(left on the political scale). Yet, you realize that if you spoke out against Government laws there, you would be tossed in jail. So of course like so many LIBERALS you are hypicritcal and remain here.
I never once suggested that drivers going a few mph over the speed limit or college kids have a few beers was a concern on the level of illegal immigrations. Any such conclusions must have been drawn because statements were taken out of contact.
And no need to pigeonhole some of us as liberals. Those who seem to unwaveringly support deporting all illegal aliens are more apt to see things in black and white. Whatever happened to those grey areas? As for me, I’m all over the place, conservative on some issues, liberal on others, moderate on yet others.
To: citizenofmanassas. Those companies that fired or laid off workers suspected of illegals did so largely because they were busted. Were they able to replenish their work force with Americans? I don’t know. But I can almost guarantee that if you remove ALL the illegal aliens from the work pool, there won’t be nearly enough Americans to fill those jobs.
So, instead of having a system in place where illegals are forced to continue to break the law due to their unlawful presence, why not give those hard working and well-intended illegal aliens the chance to be here legitimately without risk of deportation. Prioritize and kick out those illegal aliens who are criminals or who don’t contribute. And speaking of deporting, why just concentrate on illegal aliens. I’m positive there are plenty of immigrants who are not citizens but have permanent visas who are criminals - violent or defrauding and bilking the government. We should set the wheels in motion to deport them too.
RecordGuy-
What you implied was that since the cops don’t always enforce speeding laws or under age drinking laws, then why bother with something petty like illegal entry into our country.
Recordguy.
You gave the impression you don’t mind the DUI crackdowns etc, but did not think such deterrents for illegals would work.
Yes, those companies were able to hire American workers, or they would have gone out of business.
If these people were well intended they would have come here legally. Again, they break the law by coming here illegally, they break the law by working here. How many transgressions are you willing to overlook? Where are you willing to draw the line at? Using fake ids, stealing documents? Not paying taxes is another issue. As you can see even for those that come here “just to work” they can quickly collect a number of law infractions.
people who overstay their visas, know exactly how long the visa is good for, and if they did not want to become illegal should have taken care of the visa long before it expired. It is not as if they have no clue as to get an extension.
Plenty of legal immigrants who are here have broken the law, and guess what, they are subject to deportation.
I hear so many supporters of illegals say the illegals are no different then from previous immigrants. That just is not right, since the previous waves came here legally, and the illegals of course have not.
Take away 10 to 20 million illegals and will we have a shortage of workers? I don’t think so. How many of those illegals are using services/businesses, etc, that would not be required if they were not here? Instead of having a bloated number of teachers who have to teach ESL classes, those folks will no be free to do other jobs. Get my point?
COM,
read:
http://www.swiftbrands.com/media/releases/2007_05_11_Swift_Beef_Staffing_Update.pdf
It took Swift more than three months to get back to normal not just one week. They lost about 50 million dollars (which I pretty much don’t care because they have to pay for what they did).
“That just is not right, since the previous waves came here legally, and the illegals of course have not.”
I have to correct you on that. Staring in 1924 with the new quota’s system, about 400,000 new immigrants came legally to the US. Half of them returned to their countries the same year (contradicting the idea that all of them adapted). The same year that are reports of about 200,000 people coming illegally to this country through Cuba. It doesn’t seem like a big number but if you take into consideration that the number of those who came legally was about the same when compared to those who did illegally, then it was a big issue. After that organized crime took the business of bringing illegal aliens ( Al Capone was one of them).
Read the papers of that period and you will see that they live in the same places, the first generation didn’t learn the language, and the second generation was constantly accused of criminal activities. In that way they are not that different. Nativist always though that these people will never assimilate and history proved them wrong.
‘Unlawful presence’ has not been criminalized by our existing laws. Local governments cannot supercede the federal government by enforcing above and beyond what the federal government would do.
For example, if the federal government cannot arrest an individual for burning a flag, Prince William County law enforcement cannot enforce a flag burning statute that might appear on its books.
We are not stating how we wish things were, but how things are. This is called reality.
SEEYOURPROBLEM,
OK, it may not have taken a week, but the point was they were able to do it. Of course training that many new employees also takes time as well.
TH,
The largest waves of immigration happened before 1924. We allow about 1 million legal immigrants a year into the Country now. It is hard to say how many illegals come and go over the course of a year.
Of course not everyone learned to speak English right away. But even with that there are differences. Unlike in the heyday of LEGAL immigration, folks who settled in ethnic neighborhoods were of course more likely to speak a language other then English. However, once out of that neighborhood, could they move half way across the Country and still be able to speak and conduct business in their Native language? Not likely. Now, of course it does not matter where one is in America, a spanish language option is available for many services including Government services. Look at the food labeling today, many items have at least some spanish language and others have complete labeling in both English and spanish. Was that the case 100 years ago? Also, there were not multiple Nation wide tv stations that were in foreign languages like we have today. There were not the number of radio stations or papers either.
So, the incentive to learn English simply is not there as it used to be. Does that mean future generations may not learn English? That is hard to say, but there is no denying there is a huge difference between now and then.
Being against illegal immigration is not the same as being a Navist, even if the COMPOST and other supporters of illegal aliens say so.
Dolph,
It seems your side has an issue with reality. As I said there is a reason why the Government uses the term LEGAL immigrant and ILLEGAL immigrant. Surely you understand why. Reality says anyone who supports illegals is wrong, yet that does not stop people from attempting to opine otherwise.
TH…Hello!…Oh…you are wrong…again! The people that came here a long time ago had a lot harder time operating in our country (no bi-lingual programs, etc.). That was a GREAT incentive to assimilate! Nowadays, there is no incentive. Everything is turning bi-lingual which is causing balkanization to occur.
Here is an interesting article. I bet this never happened 100 years ago.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070906/20070906005934.html?.v=1
Like I keep saying over and over and over again….these concepts (such as the melting pot) are beyond the classic liberal’s capability of understanding! Maybe all of those college day liberal protests that they took part in (about everything) affected their thinking capacity somehow???
COM,
And exactly what IS my side? This I have to hear.
I need my entertainment for the afternoon.
Dolph,
You are a walking contradiction. You seem to think asking for the enforcement of current law is a sound bite, but argue because it is the law, even illegals have to be educated by public schools.
You demand respect for people who want to ignore the law, but ignore the fact these people have no respect for the law and no respect for those that do want to enforce the law.
You bad mouth any new idea or suggestion on how to handle illegal immigration, and of course not coming up with any of your own.
It is not hard for people to get the impression, while you do pay a bit of lip service to being concerned with illegal aliens, your real agenda is just to go long with the status quo of allowing them to stay here, because what the hell can be done about it.
Your problem Patriot is that in your world you don’t allow a lot “melting” but just “pot”. Otherwise I cannot explain your radical points of view(Love for Tancredo just one of those allucinations).You just like to accuse people of being liberal as if that is the sure way to win a debate. Now going to college was a problem too! I guess that you didn’t do it and that confirms my hypothesis about you: not a racist, just ignorant.
Patriot,
If those of us who want debate are liberals, then you are just a red neck apologist
COM,
These are complex issues for which there are no simple answers. Unlike you, I have not locked myself into a dogma. If that makes me a walking contradiction, then so be it.
I don’t think you really have a clue how I feel about things because you are too busy polishing your talons instead of reading.
Dolph,
Sorry, but this is not a complex issue. They are illegal for a reason. I am not locked into any dogma, just the law. But I suppose if that is what you consider to be a dogma….. And, you wonder why again I call you a walking contradiction.
seeyourproblem - thanks for adding the Swift link. I printed it and was NOT amazed to read (dated 11 May 2007)”
“After 15 months of investigation, and as the Company has previously indicated, NO CHARGES OR ACCUSATIONS OF WRONGDOING HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE GOVERNMENT AGAINST SWIFT or any current or former member of management in connection with the government’s immigrant worker investigation, nor does the Company have any reason to believe there will be in the future”.
Nobody in the personnel dept knew anything about illegal workers OR the law against hiring them? The poor schmucks doing the dirty work were blamed and hauled away.
How much does the Swift company give to politicians? You’d think TANCREDO would be jumping all over Swift, wouldn’t you.
Tancredo is from Colorado, you know.
You liberals are absolutely….RIDICULOUS. No common sense or logic whatsoever! No wonder we have all of these problems!
COM,
Then that explains your problem. You do not see our immigration laws as being complex.
I suggest you read through the existing laws, then go through the types of visas that are issued to foreigners. Tell me how a person from any Latin American country comes here legally, the entire process.
Then come back and tell me immigration is not a complex issue.
Guess The Patriot is at a loss for words. No defense for Swift, no complaint about the government not doing its duty? Just falling back on the “L” word.
Dolph,
We accept about 1 million legal immigrants a year. I guess it is not so complex for those people.
Do visas come with instructions? Do they come with an expiration date?
Lovisa,
It is a shame that the company was let off, there is no doubt companies realize they hire illegals. But, I also know that not every illegal in the Country works, so we also need to go after the illegals. Are you willing to do that? Or, do you just want to blame corporate America for all of the problems like the typical liberal?
Swift is an many different States, you can’t say Tom should know about every Company in his State. He has done more to bring this issue to the forefront then just about any other elected official.
BTW, since you are calling out Patriot, why don’t you call out your fellow liberals who will not answer my questions that have asked in the thread today? Why don’t you ask them to counter the facts I have posted? I know why they don’t because they can’t, but I would not mind you at least calling them out on it.
COM,
Ok, if I understand you correctly, you pick up a visa, read the instructions, follow them, and leave when the visa expires?
Now what about those volumes of statutes involving immigration, status, etc?
How about those seeking permanent residency from say, Peru. How does one do that?
citizenofmanassas - I see you’re on a firstname basis with Tancredo. As for him not knowing about the Swift incidence is an impossibility. The case was all over TV and newpapers, weeklies, etc. And you know what? He even knew about little Herndon back in August 2005 when he wrote a letter to the Town Council urging them to vote “no” on the proposed Day Labor Center. “The proposal is a bad idea whose time will never come”. The letter was read at a Council meeting by a Linda Muller, “forthecause.us”, of Potomac Falls. So for you to even hint at the fact that Tancredo didn’t know about Swift is total fiction. IF he didn’t, then he ought not to run for reelection, let alone for the presidency.
I’m not blaming corporate America for “all of the problems”, but it would seem proper for the government to at least give Swift a slap on the wrist. Bet the company will get a hefty tax deduction for their 50 million dollar loss!
Getting back to the teacher at Osbourn. Is anything being done? I do not have kids HS age as of yet but I am concerned that this conversation took place in the local HS.
Lovasi,
Sorry, I did not make myself clear about what I said regarding Tom. He did not know they were hiring illegals.
See, I knew you could not agree it is a good thing to go after the illegals and companies. Ha ha ha, what other law breakers do you support? And some person wonders why I do not give you respect.
Dolph,
What do you say about the ONE MILLION legal immigrants we allow in the Country each year. Do you think they just got lucky? Or, do you think they were given the paper work, paid attention to what needed to be done, followed the rules and were rewarded with being accepted?
Everybody has to follow the rules in order to immigrate to America. Yes, it may be slightly different from Country to Country, but obviously some folks get it, and those that don’t use the excuse about the process and come here illegally.
I really don’t know what the process is(same as I don’t know about how to put a rocket together), but I do know based on allowing 1 MILLION immigrants in a year, the process is known by those that follow the rules.
it should be difficult to immigrate to America. United States Citizenship is the most valuable Citizenship in the World. Surely, you were also raised to believe that hard work pays off and nothing is earned without effort.
If we handed out Citizenship and green cards to anyone who asked for them without any effort do you really think everyone who received them would be thankful, grateful, and want to pay the Country back for such a gift?
citizenofmanassas - spinmaster par excellence!!!
Lovisa,
You are something if you think Tom knew a company was hiring illegals. You are pathetic, and of course ignore the points I brought up.
[Ed note: comment edited.]
Greg L. - Is this kind of address permitted or should citizenofmanassas be banned? Seriously?
A little too hot for you in the kitchen for you? You are the one that spins the issues and ignores the truth. You can’t address the issues, because you know you are wrong, so you grasp at anything but what has been directed at you.
COM,
You are completely out of line. Your behavior is rude, crude, and socially unacceptable.
You have been bear-baiting people all day. No one on here has been able to make a comment without you chiming in and name calling.
Enough is enough. Get some self control here.
I beg to differ - I have read much worse by guys like “Onan the Barbarian” and that “Feldersnatch”(sp) guy.
Why didn’t anyone try to get them thrown out? Perhaps they were saying what Dolph and Lovisa wanted to hear?
Dolph,
I have only been responding to what others have posted or have directed at me. It seems that when these folks are backed into a corner so to speak they either take off or just ignore my response because they realize they hold the wrong position. Or they just out right lie.
Everyone here is an adult, and if they can’t opine with facts and truths then they should think about not posting here.
MCR,
I don’t know who those people are and I have no idea what they have said on here. I probably just mentally put them on ignore if they were overly offensive.
This has been a very interesting forum - actually my first. Don’t usually have the time. My views are rather closely aligned to Dolph’s. I think we want a pragmatic and fair solution to a complex problem, one that ultimately benefits America.
citizenofmanasses, many of your points are well taken though we probably disagree on the major ones. The issue is complex. You say it’s not. Well, if you view the issue as one of “if you snuck in across the border or overstayed your visa, you are breaking the law”…then it’s not complex at all. What’s the best way to handle it? There’s no easy solution and for every point of view, there’s a counter point of view and another in middle. But agree or disagree, you’ve added a lot to this forum.
And Patriot, intentionally or not, many of your comments and characterizations tend to be very polarizing. Just because one doesn’t see eye to eye with you on immigration doesn’t automatically brand them as a liberal. Not that there’s anything wrong with being a liberal. Or a conservative. I think there are a fair number of conservatives who support giving the means to some illegal aliens who meet certain criteria to stay here, work here, and pay government taxes here.
As another war veteran who also has seen the threats of the World, I beg to differ with “disgusted veteran” that we should focus only on the threat outside our borders and only on the situation in IRAQ. That shows he has a very narrow view of the world, likely limited by his own personal experiences.
BL and BD are right, all threats to our personal safety are important, especially when it involves internal threat to our lives, threat to our economy and threat to our national sovereignity, our laws, and national culture.
He TOTALLY missed the issue that this forum is about enforcing actions to enforce our LAW, that would remove ALL “illegals” regardless of what nationality they are, including those from terrorist and religious groups bent on hurting America, from IRAQ, Pakistan, Afganistan, Columbia, North Korea, El Salvadore, Mexico, etc, etc, and REMOVING these illegal and dangerous individuals from the nations interior and preventing “ALL illegals” from invading its borders. IF WE HAD ONLY DONE THIS BEFORE 9/11, IT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED AND WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD TO SEND OUR SECOND GENERATION OF SOLDIERS TO DIE IN IRAQ. I’M YELLING TO HONOR THESE SOLDIER’S SACRIFICE AS A FELLOW SOLDIER JUST IN CASE THE REST OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC DOESN”T GET IT! The first generation to die in IRAQ would have been enough if we had only enforced and preserved our interior safety and LAWS. Our leaders failed us, not our soldiers!
Recordguy,
We are glad you are here and hope you will come back.
Dolph
Discusted Conservative : I could just stop over at your place instead, as you can help to explain what The city council’s got to do with my being conservative. Just send me a date, time and place and I’ll be there.
Who’s “Discusted Conservative?”
Recordguy,
What is so complex about a person who sneaks across the border, engages in ID fraud, work fraud etc?
What is so complex about a person who obtains a visa, not so unlike obtaining a driver’s license(there are also penalties if you are caught driving with an expired license) that also has an expiration date, and still overstays it? Many do it on purpose because they realize enforcement is weak at best.
We clearly have immigration laws and everyone knows that including the illegals, and yet they still come here illegally. Do you really want to reward people whose first act of coming to the Country is to break a law?
OK, I have asked this question it seems a million times, and yet you and others who seem to be on one hand against illegal aliens, yet on the other can’t seem to see a problem with it, what is your solution?
I think I also asked you yesterday(excuse me if I have the wrong person) I believe you said we should not deport otherwise law abiding illegals. I asked exactly what transgressions were you willing to overlook. ID fraud, tax fraud? Work Fraud, buying and or stealing someone else’s identity? I never got a reply from you or others who say this is a complex issue. I understand because in reality there is no such thing as an otherwise law abiding illegal. You know that too, yet will avoid the questions, facts, and points for that very reason.
Would you continue to see a doctor, lawyer, dentist, accountant, etc, who engaged in a number of transgressions? Or, do you just not expect the same from people who illegally immigrate from third World Nations?
I have not called anyone names in this post, I have not used any questionable language, nor egged anyone on, but I have asked questions that obviously supporters of illegals will find uncomfortable to deal with.
citizenof manassas - Last paragraph “I have not called anyone names in this post, I have not used questionable language, nor egged anyone on…” I beg to differ. Maybe you remember calling me a “self loathing idiot”? Your language was questonable enough to edited out, and I haven’t seen any other writer being edited. But, keep it up!
I’m a wonderful son of a gun.
Ascertainable flaws? I have none.
I’m handsome and tall,
Just the greatest of all.
(so reports a committee of one).
Lovisa,
Maybe you should read the post again, and you should be able to pick up what I said. There have been plenty of edits to other posters. Though, I guess you have selective observation skills to go along with your selective reading skills.
But, keep ignoring the questions directed your way, it really shows badly on you and others who support illegals. I guess the old saying is true birds of a feather flock together….
CASE CLOSED !!!!
Conversation has gotten off track. Does anyone know if anything is being done about this teacher?
COM should be banned! I second that motion.
Lovisa,
Ha ha ha. Remember, you can’t answer the questions…
Integrity and fairness test:
For all of you who wish to see some responsibiility taken for violation of laws by the big corporations; and believe that those at the top “must” know what is going on when laws are being violated..
I have only one question..
do you feel the same way about political donations given illegally by someone like Hsu? or do those recepients get a pass?
4kidz,
I would like an update on that situation also. re the social studies teacher
Don’t misread me. I am not calling for anyone’s head on a platter here. I like to get facts first.
It would be nice to get an update. Even if that is what the teacher said, I don’t know how much can be done. It would also be interesting if it was said, to see if this was a lone voice, or a common opinion held by other teachers in the City.
in the mean time I will continue to wait for those that support illegals to answer my questions I directed at them…..
Legal2 said on 10 Sep 2007 at 6:36 am:
“It is a federal law that health services be provided for everyone, but that it might not be is a scare tactic used by MSF/WWC/UITC to incite legals as well as illegals.”
Federal law only states that illegals are entitled to EMERGENCY health services.
As NCLB is up for renewal and hearings are being held this week, this is what you might be getting. It has everything to do with immigration issues.
You can tell who is heavily lobbying for even more school resources.
Loonnngggg link to MJM.
http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173352704044&path=!news
AWC: Sorry, … I meant Disgusted Conservative.
Michael: You and I are going to have to agree to disagree. There is a problem with people coming over our borders, but there is also a priority to go after the ones that want to blow us up, over the ones looking for employment. One you can work to legislate, the other has more urgency since it can create a calamity so big some of our population may not be around to realize what hit them.
Disgusted Veteran,
How about a once nice neighborhood that has gone down the drain in the span of a couple of years. Is that not something that should be a focus? A house is most likely the largest financial purchase we will make in our life, do we just allow that to be thrown away because of the focus is somewhere else?
How about the school systems? And entire towns? We do not know who the “good” illegals are, so does it not make sense to go after all of them?
BTW, Recordguy, I am still waiting on your answers from my post of a couple of days ago. Maybe another supporter of illegals will step up to the plate….. And y’all wonder why I love going after those that support illegals.
Actually DV, I wasn’t actually directing that question to your typo…I really did not see a “Disgusted Conservative” in this thread.
OOPS, sorry…I just went back through and found him/her.
Wow, I’m still waiting for those that support illegals to answer my questions. Could it be y’all are not really so steadfast in your positions that you care to risk looking even more foolish, so y’all just run and hide at the first sign a can of whoop is coming your way?
4kidzanadog - I know this post is getting old, but yes this teacher is being looked into.
M-n-u
How so?
COM- I don’t want to say right now, but it is being looked into.
Thanks.