Comments on: PWCPD Proposes Probable Cause Standard http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/ Blog-Fu for Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics. Wed, 23 May 2012 08:41:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Claire Gastanaga http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-26641 Claire Gastanaga Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:36:45 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-26641 AW: You introduced the idea that illegal immigration was the "cause" of what you experienced in a North Carolina hospital and that the "third world country" was a reflection of the presence of illegal immigrants with this concluding remark: "I’m quite certain that our hospitals in PWC are not as bad as that one…but, consider, North Carolina laid out a major red carpet for illegal aliens long before we did here in Virginia." Citizen: My path to legalization would not be available to anyone arrested or convicted of committing a crime in this country. Stats on illegal aliens now in prison show that most have been incarcerated either for immigration violations or for identity fraud and related issues. Claire AW:
You introduced the idea that illegal immigration was the “cause” of what you experienced in a North Carolina hospital and that the “third world country” was a reflection of the presence of illegal immigrants with this concluding remark: “I’m quite certain that our hospitals in PWC are not as bad as that one…but, consider, North Carolina laid out a major red carpet for illegal aliens long before we did here in Virginia.”

Citizen:
My path to legalization would not be available to anyone arrested or convicted of committing a crime in this country. Stats on illegal aliens now in prison show that most have been incarcerated either for immigration violations or for identity fraud and related issues.

Claire

]]> By: AWCheney http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25779 AWCheney Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:56:27 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25779 "Like it or not the constitution protects us all from being stopped by the police (in our cars or on our streets) without probable cause to believe (or at least reasonable suspicion) that we are committing or have committed a crime (or a traffic infraction when on the road)." Nobody is disputing that, Claire...you're just throwing that out to cloud the issue. With regard to my experience in that NC emergency room, YOU are the one who has turned the phrases "a third world country" and "a sea of humanity" into "...everyone who is in a hospital waiting room who looks Hispanic is not lawfully present or that everyone who lives in North Carolina who is Hispanic is not lawfully present." You, as anonymous before you, have made my point, in that it is not WE who constantly assume every comment in an "illegal alien" thread is about Hispanics. As I said in my original comment, "You can come to your own conclusion regarding this incident," and you did. “Like it or not the constitution protects us all from being stopped by the police (in our cars or on our streets) without probable cause to believe (or at least reasonable suspicion) that we are committing or have committed a crime (or a traffic infraction when on the road).”

Nobody is disputing that, Claire…you’re just throwing that out to cloud the issue.

With regard to my experience in that NC emergency room, YOU are the one who has turned the phrases “a third world country” and “a sea of humanity” into “…everyone who is in a hospital waiting room who looks Hispanic is not lawfully present or that everyone who lives in North Carolina who is Hispanic is not lawfully present.” You, as anonymous before you, have made my point, in that it is not WE who constantly assume every comment in an “illegal alien” thread is about Hispanics. As I said in my original comment, “You can come to your own conclusion regarding this incident,” and you did.

]]> By: citizenofmanassas http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25752 citizenofmanassas Mon, 17 Sep 2007 17:01:29 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25752 Claire, I know I have asked this of others who support illegals, and I still have yet to get a response. So, I don't know why I keep asking them. Maybe I just like to see y'all run and hide. Exactly what is the line you have in mind when you say you want to provide a path of legalization for those illegals who have not re-entered the Country after being deported? Under your plan would those illegals who have committed ID fraud, tax fraud, work fraud(working without authorization is a crime), purchasing documents on the black market, obtained documents by lying about their illegal status, etc be eligible for amnesty? At what point would you stop allowing for such transgressions? Claire,

I know I have asked this of others who support illegals, and I still have yet to get a response. So, I don’t know why I keep asking them. Maybe I just like to see y’all run and hide.

Exactly what is the line you have in mind when you say you want to provide a path of legalization for those illegals who have not re-entered the Country after being deported?

Under your plan would those illegals who have committed ID fraud, tax fraud, work fraud(working without authorization is a crime), purchasing documents on the black market, obtained documents by lying about their illegal status, etc be eligible for amnesty?

At what point would you stop allowing for such transgressions?

]]> By: citizenofmanassas http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25749 citizenofmanassas Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:54:23 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25749 Claire, OK. So in other words, you have decided that you will just ignore facts, and chalk them up to opinions, rather then admit you are wrong and answer simple questions. Yup, the typical liberal mind set. I thought you liberals loved diversity? Though I guess not a diversity that counters what y'all say is the truth. Claire,

OK. So in other words, you have decided that you will just ignore facts, and chalk them up to opinions, rather then admit you are wrong and answer simple questions.

Yup, the typical liberal mind set. I thought you liberals loved diversity? Though I guess not a diversity that counters what y’all say is the truth.

]]> By: monticup http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25734 monticup Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:21:31 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25734 Patriot: It's the "One World" crowd--the United Nations, World Bank, EU, NAU. That's why the illegal aliens are trained to say, "So what if I don't have documents, I'm still a human being." As if US citizenship is merely a piece of paper. These "one-worlders" want to seize and redistribute the wealth of the US to the third world. Patriot: It’s the “One World” crowd–the United Nations, World Bank, EU, NAU. That’s why the illegal aliens are trained to say, “So what if I don’t have documents, I’m still a human being.”

As if US citizenship is merely a piece of paper. These “one-worlders” want to seize and redistribute the wealth of the US to the third world.

]]> By: The Patriot http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25729 The Patriot Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:57:31 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25729 But Greg.....the illegal alien apologists consider themselves to be "global citizens" (vice American citizens). That is a major problem. This is why they argue against the American melting pot and have dreams of free-flowing open borders! But Greg…..the illegal alien apologists consider themselves to be “global citizens” (vice American citizens). That is a major problem. This is why they argue against the American melting pot and have dreams of free-flowing open borders!

]]> By: Greg L http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25710 Greg L Mon, 17 Sep 2007 05:34:53 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25710 Sounds a lot like amnesty to me. When we disregard the unlawful acts of others, no matter how many supposed hurdles we put in place as an alternative to holding them accountable to the law, I call that amnesty. It is effectively a pardon, albeit with some marginal cost. All it does is encourage more illegal aliens. We're in this mess now because we gave amnesty in 1986 and increased the number of illegal aliens to at least 12-20 million from 2 million in the process. We repeat this mistake, and the next time we revisit this we'll have 50-80 million illegals, or more. It's crazy. Claire, you're in a fantasy world to think this works at all. Sounds a lot like amnesty to me. When we disregard the unlawful acts of others, no matter how many supposed hurdles we put in place as an alternative to holding them accountable to the law, I call that amnesty. It is effectively a pardon, albeit with some marginal cost.

All it does is encourage more illegal aliens. We’re in this mess now because we gave amnesty in 1986 and increased the number of illegal aliens to at least 12-20 million from 2 million in the process. We repeat this mistake, and the next time we revisit this we’ll have 50-80 million illegals, or more.

It’s crazy. Claire, you’re in a fantasy world to think this works at all.

]]> By: Claire Gastanaga http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25709 Claire Gastanaga Mon, 17 Sep 2007 05:00:44 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25709 Citizen of Manassas: When you say that I said that I wouldn't come back to BVBL, I think that you are referring to a prior thread where I said that I didn't plan to engage further on that thread. When I think that I can add some substance to the discussion, you'll see me post again, but I won't make it a habit to respond to your posts, because, as I've said before, you are entitled to your opinions which don't command a response. AWCheney: Like it or not the constitution protects us all from being stopped by the police (in our cars or on our streets) without probable cause to believe (or at least reasonable suspicion) that we are committing or have committed a crime (or a traffic infraction when on the road). And, even when we are stopped legally, the constitution protects us all from having to give the police any information other than our name (or show our driver's license if driving). "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin We can secure our borders and reform the broken immigration system without sacrificing what it means to be American. But, it will take more than yelling and comparing immigrants to alien species and assuming that everyone who is in a hospital waiting room who looks Hispanic is not lawfully present or that everyone who lives in North Carolina who is Hispanic is not lawfully present. In other words, it will take common sense and right reason on _both_ sides of the debate, and, yes, it will take some measure of compromise. And, before you all go off on one of your "criminal alien apologist" rants at me, I want to repeat something that I've said before on this blog (sorry all of you who hate repetition): I am not a proponent of amnesty. I am a proponent of constructing a path to legalization for those immigrants in this country without authority who have not committed a crime or reentered following deportation. Webster’s defines amnesty as the act of an authority by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals. I challenge you to find any place in which I have advocated that anyone receive a pardon for past immigration violations. The path to legalization that I support requires sanctions in the form of fines for anyone who has violated immigration laws (as well as payment of any back taxes owed). That is not amnesty. Just as it is not amnesty when a person voluntarily pays a fine upon receiving a summons for a misdemeanor. Citizen of Manassas:
When you say that I said that I wouldn’t come back to BVBL, I think that you are referring to a prior thread where I said that I didn’t plan to engage further on that thread. When I think that I can add some substance to the discussion, you’ll see me post again, but I won’t make it a habit to respond to your posts, because, as I’ve said before, you are entitled to your opinions which don’t command a response.

AWCheney:
Like it or not the constitution protects us all from being stopped by the police (in our cars or on our streets) without probable cause to believe (or at least reasonable suspicion) that we are committing or have committed a crime (or a traffic infraction when on the road). And, even when we are stopped legally, the constitution protects us all from having to give the police any information other than our name (or show our driver’s license if driving).

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin

We can secure our borders and reform the broken immigration system without sacrificing what it means to be American.

But, it will take more than yelling and comparing immigrants to alien species and assuming that everyone who is in a hospital waiting room who looks Hispanic is not lawfully present or that everyone who lives in North Carolina who is Hispanic is not lawfully present. In other words, it will take common sense and right reason on _both_ sides of the debate, and, yes, it will take some measure of compromise.

And, before you all go off on one of your “criminal alien apologist” rants at me, I want to repeat something that I’ve said before on this blog (sorry all of you who hate repetition):

I am not a proponent of amnesty. I am a proponent of constructing a path to legalization for those immigrants in this country without authority who have not committed a crime or reentered following deportation. Webster’s defines amnesty as the act of an authority by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals. I challenge you to find any place in which I have advocated that anyone receive a pardon for past immigration violations. The path to legalization that I support requires sanctions in the form of fines for anyone who has violated immigration laws (as well as payment of any back taxes owed). That is not amnesty. Just as it is not amnesty when a person voluntarily pays a fine upon receiving a summons for a misdemeanor.

]]> By: monticup http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25635 monticup Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:06:42 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25635 MP Resident: That widespread ingestion of lead explains a lot. What century are they living in? MP Resident: That widespread ingestion of lead explains a lot. What century are they living in?

]]> By: MP Resident http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25582 MP Resident Sun, 16 Sep 2007 05:07:26 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25582 "I wonder why Mexico, Honduras, etc. are incapable of providing modern health care, education and all the other good things that their citizens come HERE for. What is wrong with them?" Widespread lead poisoning would be my guess. Every few months there's another story about lead-tainted Mexican candy that got imported into the USA. One would have to assume that lead-tainted candy is widely available in Mexico. They also use lead salts (Azarcon, Greta) as a folk remedy for stomach upset. That's right, they consume lead compounts intentionally. See http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00000164.htm for more information on lead-based folk remedies used by Mexicans. Oh, by the way, I don't suppose I should have to mention it, but I will anyway: Lead poisoning has a deleterous effect on neurological development. “I wonder why Mexico, Honduras, etc. are incapable of providing modern health care, education and all the other good things that their citizens come HERE for. What is wrong with them?”

Widespread lead poisoning would be my guess. Every few months there’s another story about lead-tainted Mexican candy that got imported into the USA. One would have to assume that lead-tainted candy is widely available in Mexico.

They also use lead salts (Azarcon, Greta) as a folk remedy for stomach upset. That’s right, they consume lead compounts intentionally.

See http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00000164.htm for more information on lead-based folk remedies used by Mexicans.

Oh, by the way, I don’t suppose I should have to mention it, but I will anyway: Lead poisoning has a deleterous effect on neurological development.

]]> By: AWCheney http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25571 AWCheney Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:23:53 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25571 I just stated the facts monticup, making no assumptions. I personally feel that the facts speak for themselves, and then WHO is it that makes the assumptions...a racist anonymous illegal alien apologist who calls everyone on the other side of the issue a redneck. I believe he/she made my point extremely well without my sinking to his/her level. I just stated the facts monticup, making no assumptions. I personally feel that the facts speak for themselves, and then WHO is it that makes the assumptions…a racist anonymous illegal alien apologist who calls everyone on the other side of the issue a redneck. I believe he/she made my point extremely well without my sinking to his/her level.

]]> By: monticup http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25568 monticup Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:06:25 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25568 AW: You should feel free to mention illegal aliens as often as you like--after all, they ARE illegal. I call illegal aliens "illegal aliens" because that is the correct term for them. When I see a van with NC plates full of Hispanics, I think illegal aliens. It's called deductive reasoning. AW: You should feel free to mention illegal aliens as often as you like–after all, they ARE illegal. I call illegal aliens “illegal aliens” because that is the correct term for them. When I see a van with NC plates full of Hispanics, I think illegal aliens. It’s called deductive reasoning.

]]> By: AWCheney http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25565 AWCheney Sun, 16 Sep 2007 03:52:17 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25565 Correction, I did mention illegal aliens ONCE...a fact clearly in evidence, often cited, that NC is far friendlier to illegal aliens than is Virginia. Correction, I did mention illegal aliens ONCE…a fact clearly in evidence, often cited, that NC is far friendlier to illegal aliens than is Virginia.

]]> By: AWCheney http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25563 AWCheney Sun, 16 Sep 2007 03:45:34 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25563 See...nowhere did I say that any of the people were illegal aliens. YOU people, anonymous, are the "racists" of the issue, perpetually making assumptions of facts not in evidence. I don't know if all the people in the story I related were illegal, and the only time I even mentioned Hispanics was that they filled the van, which was absolutely true. You made all your own assumptions...I only related the facts. Man, did you step into it! BTW, is it possible to be a redneck if you are a naturalized citizen? I don't remember anything like that in Jeff Foxworthy's "You Are A Redneck If" chronicles. See…nowhere did I say that any of the people were illegal aliens. YOU people, anonymous, are the “racists” of the issue, perpetually making assumptions of facts not in evidence. I don’t know if all the people in the story I related were illegal, and the only time I even mentioned Hispanics was that they filled the van, which was absolutely true. You made all your own assumptions…I only related the facts. Man, did you step into it!

BTW, is it possible to be a redneck if you are a naturalized citizen? I don’t remember anything like that in Jeff Foxworthy’s “You Are A Redneck If” chronicles.

]]> By: anonymous http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25560 anonymous Sun, 16 Sep 2007 03:29:19 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25560 "Oh, by the way…did I mention that that van was full of Hispanics?" And because of that they were illegals and since then you hate all Hispanics, right AWCHENEY?You redneck apologists are funny. You come up with all these stories of suffering bthat clearly say that you need therapy “Oh, by the way…did I mention that that van was full of Hispanics?”
And because of that they were illegals and since then you hate all Hispanics, right AWCHENEY?You redneck apologists are funny. You come up with all these stories of suffering bthat clearly say that you need therapy

]]> By: citizenofmanassas http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25537 citizenofmanassas Sun, 16 Sep 2007 01:16:36 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25537 Monticup, You are exactly right. With that in mind, we should expect them to enter the above ground work force, and expect them to pay taxes. Monticup,

You are exactly right. With that in mind, we should expect them to enter the above ground work force, and expect them to pay taxes.

]]> By: monticup http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25532 monticup Sun, 16 Sep 2007 00:16:37 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25532 Josh: I love your alien species analogy. Excellent. Citizen: Most of the illegal aliens are illiterate and uneducated. I doubt they can read Spanish. They don't even speak it properly. I suspect their mestizo language has an "oral tradition" only. Josh: I love your alien species analogy. Excellent.
Citizen: Most of the illegal aliens are illiterate and uneducated. I doubt they can read Spanish. They don’t even speak it properly. I suspect their mestizo language has an “oral tradition” only.

]]> By: citizenofmanassas http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25522 citizenofmanassas Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:43:16 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25522 Josh, The only reason we have arguments(short ones based on how the pro-illegals run from this blog) is because people who support illegals are for the most part self loathing, and they believe America is wrong and thus we must make up for that wrong by being a door mat to illegals. Josh,

The only reason we have arguments(short ones based on how the pro-illegals run from this blog) is because people who support illegals are for the most part self loathing, and they believe America is wrong and thus we must make up for that wrong by being a door mat to illegals.

]]> By: citizenofmanassas http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25521 citizenofmanassas Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:41:15 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25521 Also, how about the free truck from the library? It seems only hispanics read books, since the truck is covered in writing that is in spanish. I guess I have just not traveled the roads enough in this area to see the library truck that is covered in writing that is in English. Also, how about the free truck from the library? It seems only hispanics read books, since the truck is covered in writing that is in spanish. I guess I have just not traveled the roads enough in this area to see the library truck that is covered in writing that is in English.

]]> By: josh http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25520 josh Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:36:08 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/14/pwcpd-proposes-probable-cause-standard/#comment-25520 Unless it's seriously life threatening I'm taking my family to FT. Belvoir for any emergency care, it's a bit more of a drive but at least I'll get seen immediately. Back when I first arrived I wasnt familiar with the area and didnt know that option existed for me. I have not been to potomac since. I dont see a flood of illegals sitting around belvoir that's for sure and I get first rate service. Illegals clog up just about everything. Anytime you introduce an alien species into another ecosystem you have problems. I submit the snakehead fish as an example or Boa constrictors released into the florida everglades. Illegal aliens are no different. Countries are not equipped to deal with them on a mass scale and should not have too. That's why there are borders and they should be enforced. I still dont see why others have arguments with this, it boggles my mind. Unless it’s seriously life threatening I’m taking my family to FT. Belvoir for any emergency care, it’s a bit more of a drive but at least I’ll get seen immediately. Back when I first arrived I wasnt familiar with the area and didnt know that option existed for me. I have not been to potomac since.

I dont see a flood of illegals sitting around belvoir that’s for sure and I get first rate service.

Illegals clog up just about everything. Anytime you introduce an alien species into another ecosystem you have problems. I submit the snakehead fish as an example or Boa constrictors released into the florida everglades. Illegal aliens are no different. Countries are not equipped to deal with them on a mass scale and should not have too. That’s why there are borders and they should be enforced.

I still dont see why others have arguments with this, it boggles my mind.

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