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Let’s Kill The “DREAM Act”
By Greg L | 19 September 2007 | Illegal Aliens, US Senate | 122 Comments
The Senate is working on it’s “DREAM Act” amnesty plan today, and it’s important to keep the heat on. Seventeen Senators have gone on record so far as opposing this misguided idea, but that’s not going to be nearly enough to stop this outrage. Apparently the last time we melted the Senate’s switchboard, they didn’t get the message that the American people do not favor amnesty for illegal aliens.
Here’s a summary from the American Conservative Union:
Legislators sneaking unpopular legislation into appropriations bills is nothing new, when it comes to congressional pork, they do it all the time. But in this case it’s particularly disgusting because Durbin’s sleazy parliamentary “DREAM Act” trick — that has nothing to do with national defense — could legalize MILLIONS of illegal aliens who could simply swear to the following:
That they entered the United States (illegally) before reaching 16;
That they have lived (illegally) in the United States for a least five consecutive years;
That they have graduated from an American High School — or obtained a G.E.D. (albeit while in the United States illegally);
That they have “good moral character,” — i.e., they haven’t been charged or caught engaging in some criminal or otherwise illegal act (other than being in the country illegally).
The opportunity for fraud here is tremendous, and this will encourage all sorts of new people to try to sneak into the country so they can get on the gravy train.
Get calling right now. Here are the phone numbers:
DC Office of Senator John Warner
Washington, DC
202-224-2023
Midlothian Office of Sen. John Warner
Midlothian, VA
804-739-0247
D.C. Office of Sen. James Webb
Washington, DC
202-224-4024
Virginia Beach Office of Sen. James Webb
Virginia Beach, VA
757-518-1674
For more information, visit NumbersUSA or the ACU.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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122 Comments
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They have to get education, they will speak English, and they will pay for their own education. What is wrong with it? Are these kids assimilated or not?
THIS IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT!
There is no upper age limit. Any illegal alien can walk into a U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services office and declare that he is eligible. For example, a 45 year old can claim that he illegally entered the United States 30 years ago at the age of 15. There is no requirement that the alien prove that he entered the United States at the claimed time by providing particular documents. The DREAM Act’s Section 4(a) merely requires him to “demonstrate” that he is eligible-which in practice could mean simply making a sworn statement to that effect. Thus, it is an invitation for just about every illegal alien to fraudulently claim the amnesty.
The alien then has six years to adjust his status from a conditional green card holder to a non-conditional one. To do so, he need only complete two years of study at an institution of higher education, including any vocational school. If the alien has already completed two years of study, he can convert to non-conditional status immediately (and use his green card as a platform to sponsor parents and other family members). As an alternative to two years of study, he can enlist in the U.S. military for two years. This provision allows Senator Durbin to claim that the DREAM Act is somehow germane to the defense authorization bill.
An illegal alien who applies for the DREAM Act amnesty gets to count his years under “conditional” green card status toward the five years needed for citizenship. On top of that, the illegal alien could claim “retroactive benefits” and start the clock running the day that the DREAM Act is enacted. In combination, these two provisions put illegal aliens on a high-speed track to U.S. citizenship-moving from illegal alien to U.S. citizen in as little as five years. Lawfully present aliens, meanwhile, must follow a slower path to citizenship.
It would be absurdly easy for just about any illegal alien-even one who does not qualify for the amnesty-to evade the law. According to Section 4(f) of the DREAM Act, once an alien files an application-any application, no matter how ridiculous-the federal government is prohibited from deporting him. Moreover, with few exceptions, federal officers are prohibited from either using information from the application to deport the alien or sharing that information with another federal agency, under threat of up to $10,000 fine. Thus, an alien’s admission that he has violated federal immigration law cannot be used against him-even if he never had any chance of qualifying for the DREAM Act amnesty in the first place.
The DREAM Act also allows illegal aliens to receive in-state tuition rates at public universities, discriminating against U.S. citizens from out of state and law-abiding foreign students.
The DREAM Act also makes the illegal aliens eligible for federal student loans and federal work-study programs-another benefit that law-abiding foreign students cannot receive-all at taxpayer expense.
A consistent theme emerges: Illegal aliens are treated much more favorably than aliens who follow the law. There is no penalty for illegal behavior.
There’s only one way I’d ever consider any kind of amnesty and that’s securing the border FIRST.
Once illegals become tax paying citizens like the rest of us, they suddenly become undesireable by the corrupt businesses that hire them. So now you have a flood of more illegals taking the new legals place for jobs “Americans don’t want to do” and you have a whole new population of citizens requiring public assistance.
I could consider an amnesty of some sort if those two outcomes of it are dealt with first.
On the Drudge site there is a report that Chicago wants to raise sales tax to 11% There is a large illegal population there. Coincidence?
“There is no penalty for illegal behavior” You refer to this illegal behavior as if you were talking about killing a person. Does crossing the border illegaly equals rape? manslaughter? speeding? stealing? Is it worst than those crimes?
Then, here comes your assumption that everybody will lie and get the benefits. Let good kids study, get their degrees, and contribute to thi society.
What is the relationship between illegal aliens and sale taxes? Please use arguments that make sense. i agree with mando that closing the border and paying taxes good things to do prior to change any law.
I, personally, would NEVER consider amnesty as all that does is reward an illegal activity. Remember, these are not just Mexicans that are sneaking in over our borders. They also include the “former” legals who overstayed their Visas.
People from other countries, many not friendly to the US (yes, Saudi Arabia are our “allies” but in my opinion, in name only), come over on a student visa. They take away a spot from a legal citizen applying to the same school. Then, when the Visa expires they fade into the background, possibly giving aid and comfort to our enemies (think of the 9/11 hijackers). Russians, in the “good ole days” used to do this all the time. Nobody questions them because they, their friends and neighbors, knew them when they were here legally and no one wants to be considered rude by asking a friend, “Hey, when does your Visa run out?”
When I was at The Citadel, the President would grant amnesty to those cadets who were being punished, then, not provide any type of reward for us who obeyed the rules. So, amnesty for illegals??? I think not, not under any condition.
Please note, when I wrote “President” I was referring to the president of The Citadel, not POTUS.
Well I called all the numbers and the only one where I didn’t get a busy signal was Senator Webb’s Virginia Beach office where I spoke to a very pleasant young man who said the phone had been ringing off the hook and that many of the calls were from Northern Virginia. Keep the phone calls coming, lets burn that switchboard out!!!
When you visit NumbersUSA, please sign up for alerts. You’ll always have the most current information, and the faxes are just so easy to use. You can also, customize your fax. Oh, and look at Report Cards of your elected officials.
Dave in PWC
Have you sent those faxes too? Also, I’ve contacted John Stirrup’s office regarding NON-Inspector Chavez. They are awaiting your call. Warner’s Midlothian office have had good luck with in the past. Got through on 202 number for Warner.
One thing to point out, the “illegals” who would be eligible for this program would have been minors at the time they came across the border, and often times were brought here by their parents.
I understand wanting to exact vengence against people who knowingly broke the law. But the people who would be effected by the DREAM Act are children who were brought here by their parents.
Do you really think someone who was brought here at 2 years old by their parents, has gone to American schools and for all intents and purposes are American, should be denied the right to attend college and ultimately gain citizenship.
Many of these kids have been educated solely within the United States, have straight As, and are productive members of society.
Great! Then they can go back to the country their parents came from and make it a better place!
MP Resident,
They will stay and will make this country a better place.
Anon, I think the major point here is that the “DREAM act” is far too swiss cheese-like to be anything short of total amnesty. I, too, have a bleeding heart for the unwitting children of illegal immigrants and I understand the plight you’re clearly stating. However, make no mistake that someone somewhere along the lines broke the law. This was a bold and daring move in order to give thier children and thier families a better life…but the law was broken, services defrauded and public systems choked.
The children had no way of knowing what was going on, or how much impact they were having, this is true. I have to disagree with the “DREAM act” here because what it does is encourage this behavior in parents…its a victory for them, they’ve managed to subvert the system long enough and now thier children are scott free. If the parents get deported, will they care? Probably not, because they have an American child with an American degree, making American money………to send back to them.
Dream Act = Reward for illegal activity = incentive for more illegal activity. It also teaches the kids that what their parents did “paid off”. That is a terrible lesson for them. The parents of these “poor kids” should own up to their responsibilities and teach their kids that what they did was wrong and as such no rewards for that kind of behavior will be given.
This is the same argument with the “anchor baby” issue. Liberals say…”but the kids do not know”. Yes…but the parents know exactly what they are doing. What a terrible lesson for the kids again!
Sales taxes rise because of increased costs of social services, as you will find out.
A common sense approach would be to eliminate the anchor baby law, place rfid chips in every illegal, and throw the whole lot out of this country.
It is the stated official agenda of most third world countries to dump their excess populations on the US. This must be realized and appropriate action taken.
BTW, All Saints hosted local candidates again - check out http://vadp.org/events/death-penalty-events/september-18—candidates-forum—chance-to-raise-the-issue-of-capital-punishment.html
Also of course immigration was talked about.
So basically, by the logic of the people here, children of parents who have committed murder or rape (or any other crime for that matter) should also servce jail time and be considred felons otherwise we teach them that what their parents did was okay.
Anon, it is not an “anti-immigrant” issue. Immigrants are more than welcome to come here via the legal channels. Nice try with the article! As far as your other argument above this article…you are comparing apples and oranges!
You don’t have any credibility Patriot when you post racists comments such as this one:
“Bottom-line….no one should get any kind of advantage based on race! By having a policy like the Dream Act…it is giving an advantage of one race of people over all other races of people which is detrimental to equality for all.”
You are not against anchor babies or muslim, you are against anything that doesn’t look like you.
I went to college and graduate school for too many years to count, and am now good friends and colleagues with many international students. Why can not children of illegal immigrants do as all my friends did. Apply to a US college, get accepted, return to their native country to receive a student visa to study in the US, and voila. I have not heard anyone mention this as an alternative to the Dream Act. It seems like a logical way for someone to legalize oneself.
There’s no path to citizenship when doing that. Therefore they don’t want it.
PWCHomeowner said on 19 Sep 2007 at 3:03 pm:
If they did return to their legal country and then came into the U.S. with a student visa, they would not get the in-state tuition nor be able to sponsor their illegal parents and the rest of the family to make them “legal.” Suggest you read the DREAM ACT (Anonymous said on 19 Sep 2007 at 9:52 am:) and you will see why they will not do that.
Latino is not a race according to this article.
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/Lifescience/HumanRaces/RacesofHumanity/RacesofHumanity.htm
Thus it can not be a racial thing, so lets stop trying to play the “race” card.
Anon:
We do not send the children of murderers to jail.
But why should we support thousands of children who were born here from illegal parents? The parents know that if their child is born here, the “automatically” become a citizen. So lets sneak across the border, get you pregnant and get to stay! Then to stay here, they have many more children.
All I want is to return to an America that speaks English.
All I want is for the people that came here ILLEGALLY to be deported.
What is wrong with that?
Don’t tell me, I know that I agree with you VA_ Magoo. This is a post from Patriot who claims he is for legal vs illegal but now he is expressing that this is a race issue.
By the way I am still waiting for your answer Patriot
anon: no Dream Act, OK? I don’t care whether or not it is a race issue or an illegal issue. Please stop being so tangential. Focus. No rewards for illegal behavior. No magnets, no freebies and the illegal freeloaders will self-deport.
That lengthy post misses the whole issue. It’s not about race, its about legality. “illegal” immigrants are “illegal” regardless of race, religion, gender or ethnic group. The ethnic groups and social services workers are themselves aligning along racial, gender, ethnic and religious group lines, and they don’t understand why we won’t agree with them.
Look America, those of you who have half a brain, this is a Genderless, non-racial, Non-Ethnic group, non-religious group issue.
There are Terrorists (al Qada) in the “illegal” immigrant communities that YOU uneducated and uninitiated and uninformed people like the person who posted above, can’t seem to understand.
When one of these sanctuary “illegal” aliens blows up the nation’s Capital building from his sanctuary in Arlington, THEN maybe you’ll GET it?
Lafayette,
I will email Stirrup when I get my laptop back from being fixed. All my data is on it. I will definitely let them know about Mr. Chavez and the job or lack thereof he does for his paycheck. I already did the faxes when I got their email Wednesday morning. But thanks anyway. I finally got through to Warners office and talked to a nice lady and she said the phones had not stopped ringing all day with a lot of the same comments I made. Looks like our message is getting there, whether it does any good, who can say.
Dave in PWC,
I happened to catch Sr. Chavez on the job. I spotted him on Victoria St.(WestGate). I also snapped a few shots. There were five occupants there in the middle of the day, and all male I might add. I several several zoning violations driveway, deck(not looking very sturdy), deck with covering, and storm door open. Of course the storm door is no violation. It sure as hell should be though. It’s a known fact what it means.
BTW-Jackson’s Ridge right? Don’t you have an HOA to help with these problems? This brings me to another point, HOA’s restriction are typically much stricter than the zoning laws. The HOA’s have also failed our community, by not enforcing their restriction as set out in the Declaration of Restrictions.
Please, let me know about the HOA.
Thanks
Anon, my quote “Bottom-line….no one should get any kind of advantage based on race! By having a policy like the Dream Act…it is giving an advantage of one race of people over all other races of people which is detrimental to equality for all” actually promotes equality of all races! How is that racist??? You are absurd! Can you read English? Futhermore, when the President of National Council of La Raza was asked this summer if policy in America should be developed for the good of ALL Americans vice only for a group of people based on ethnicity….guess what??? She dodged the question! Rep. Guiterrez did the same thing when he was asked the same question! What does that tell you!!!!!!!!!!! If you did any research Anon, you will find that one particular group of people and organizations like NCLR have been screaming the loudest against all efforts to thwart illegal immigration and incentives that are given to illegals! Look on the daily news, look at the protests, look at the signs at the protests, look at who shows up at the BOCS meetings, look at the sign in PWC that is on this web site! If the daily news provides a description of criminals is that racist? How about demographic studies (are those racist)?Get your facts straight! Now on to you Anon, you are the one who used actual racist terms like “red neck”! Care to explain that? What would a red neck look like? Certainly you have a description/criteria…right?
Lafayette,
Yes we have an HOA and they won’t do anything about the overcrowding problem. The HOA says it’s a county problem which I disagree with since our condo fee keeps going up 10% for the past two years with the common water and trash fees. I’ve gone to at least 5 meetings and complained about a specific address and they won’t do a thing. They did stop one of the residents of that address running his stereo installation business in the parking lot right underneath my front window but only after many emails and me having to submit a formal grievance. Problem with the overcrowded place is that the owner is allowing it since he lives there.
Now we are trying to get the county to take action with all the “anchor” babies and kids of legal parents that are destroying our fencing, and shrubbery and urinating beside our swimming pool while they wait for the school bus at the corner of Adler and Aaron. The kids are climbing over the fence and going into the pool area while their parents watch and do nothing. The kids are coming down the hill on Adler from the huge apartment complex at the top of Adler. You should see the amount of kids at that bus stop for middle school and then it’s even more for the elementary school. And then watching the Mom’s push their baby carriages and hold the hands of another couple of kids after they put their elementary school child on the bus. ICE should just park at the bottom of the hill and they’d meet the monthly quota for the county just in one morning’s work.
You know what else Anon….there are plenty legal hispanics/latinos on our side! In fact, we have people of all colors on our side! Therefore, your racism comments are negated! Additionally, has anyone on this blog said anything about not allowing a particular group of people into our country via legal channels? Not that I have seen! That further negates your racism argument!
Anon, according to the Department of Homeland Security:
“Deportable Alien - An alien in and admitted to the United States subject to any grounds of removal specified in the Immigration and Nationality Act. This includes any alien illegally in the United States, regardless of whether the alien entered the country by fraud or misrepresentation or entered legally but subsequently lost legal status.”
The chart shows the number and country of origin of these deportable aliens:
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2006/Table35D.xls
As you can clearly see, most of the illegal alien activity is coming from south of the border (Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, etc.)! These are facts! It is a description of the criminals and where they are coming from (not racism as you like to argue without merit).
For your information Victor Moreno Orozco who was robbed and murdered by Richard Briscoe was a legal immigrant. Some of you are so quick to point out when an illegal commits a crime I wanted to be sure that you understand that there are white Americans who kill, too and who are criminals.
FHL, you are correct! However, why not eliminate the percentage of criminals that shouldn’t be here in the first place? Wouldn’t that be a good thing?
The “Dream Act” is not about fairness for hard-working students. It’s a backdoor amnesty scheme on the part of the pro-illegal alien lobby and the corporate interests seeking cheap labor. Other posts have thoroughly discussed all of the loopholes in the bill that make it a get-out-of-jail-free card for just about every illegal so I won’t repeat all of that here.
The amnesty crowd supporting this legislation is fond of arguing that we should not “punish” the children of parents who entered the US illegally. The fact is that educational resources are limited. For example, UVA accepts only one out of ten applicants. Every seat at an American college or university taken by children of illegals is a seat not available to a US citizen, legal resident, or foreign student who went through the appropriate process of applying to study here legally.
What is the fairest way of deciding who gets the limited number of seats at our colleges and universities? That’s obviously a difficult question but I think we start by excluding anyone whose family jumped the line by coming here illegally. Regardless of how long the family has been here, they need to return to their own country. At that time they can apply to come here to study legally as do most other foreign students or take advantage of educational opportunities in their own nation.
Don’t “punish” hard-working students who do things the right, legal way by giving their seats at colleges and universities to members of families who cheated. Don’t support legislation being sold to us as promoting “fairness” whose real purpose is amnesty for law-breakers.
Call Senators Warner and Webb today if you have not done so already to state your opposition to the “Dream (i.e., nightmare for American citizens and legal residents) Act.” If you are not a Virginian, please contact your senators to state your opposition to this travesty.
Concerned
All excellent points, thanks.
I also, think as far I’m concerned..When the illegals are deported the are welcome to take their “anchor babies” with them. We do allow our citizens to leave this country. When those achor babies turn 18 they can then return to the USA legally.
I really think the HOA’s are failing those that they are paid to serve. They need looked at too.
Patriot,
I have no problem saying that I am racist. On the other hand you clearly wrote a racist statement and want to make it look good by calling me name.
You a master of spining words. You can say whatever you want but you haven’t answer my question. What is the relationship between race and the Dream Act? You said it, I didn’t. Since I have read a lot of your posts here and you are against everything that doesn’t look white then I can conclude you are racist. You don’t like it but better accept it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if you were one of those against integration in Virginia in the 50s’.
I don’t see why you have a problem with people calling you red neck apologist. You have called me liberal before.
As I said it before I kind of agree with anon argument that you linked race with the Dream Act when you made that comment that this legislation will benefit one race.
You will have to accept that your way of seeing the world tends to favor one group over another. You tend to prescribe just one way of doing things right. I don’t know if that is racist but you haven’t explained why you think this legislation is about race. It is a form of back-door amnesty but I don’t think it is designed with the idea that it will help only one group.
I see your facts Patrioty. the people deported are from lati america, so the Senator Durbin when he proposed this new legislation thought: Let’s benefit brown people. I miss that part, sorry about that. It is a good thing that you are informing us that the illegal immigration issue is not about criminals but about race. Those are your facts, not mine.
It is unbeliable what red neck apologists like Patriot will do to defend a his racist points of view!!!
Anon, if you can read English…which it appears that you have a hard time with….your arguments have no merit. And no, Anon, those stats are from DHS. I merely reported them.
Furthermore, anon, I advocate the American “melting pot” (which promotes integration of all people). Surely you have read my many posts on this (since you claim you have read my posts)! You and SEE are ridiculous! Since when is liberal a non-legitimate term? It is a legitimate term…many people call themselves liberal (it is a political position of the left).
Lafayette:
Another big myth the amnesty crowd propagates is that enforcing US law separates families. Whether the family is separated or not depends entirely on the family’s own choice. Absolutely nothing in US law prevents other family members from voluntarily accompanying someone who is being deported back to their own country. If a family member is a US citizen (anchor baby) the family can decide whether that child joins them in their own country and returns to the US at age 18, or remains here with others who are in our country legally.
The family created the problems for themselves in the first place by entering our nation illegally. The burden of solving their problems should not fall on US citizens and legal residents by demands to give up their seats at colleges and universities to the children of illegals, or to pay taxes to support other services benefiting people who should not even be in this country.
Enacting the “Dream Act” and granting amnesty is the same as telling a bank robber who made a successful get-away from a crime scene that they can keep the money with no penalty because the police failed to catch them when they first committed the crime.
Good points concerned! The Dream Act is nothing but a reward for illegal activity!
Concerned/The Patriot
Exactly, The Dream Act is nothing but a reward for illegal activity. It’s more like The NIGHTMARE Act, if you ask me.
I heard Father Bob, say that stealing was ok, to feed your family!! Father Bob, is saddly mistaken!! I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Maybe, someone will post that video, you think you’re hearing things at first! This aired Sunday on WETA.
“You know what else Anon….there are plenty legal hispanics/latinos on our side! In fact, we have people of all colors on our side! Therefore, your racism comments are negated! Additionally, has anyone on this blog said anything about not allowing a particular group of people into our country via legal channels? Not that I have seen! That further negates your racism argument!”
You miss the point; which is that when you quote numbers USA or any of those other organizations, you are affiliating yourself with known racists. You may think you have pure ethics in the illegal immigration issue, and perhaps you do, but you’re being used by the racists and the bigots to further their own agenda.
The most active and loudest opponents of the illegal immigration issue are organizations and individuals tied to known racist groups that are being funded by groups who promote eugenics. That fact is indisputable. Period, full stop.
So the next time you see names like Numbers USA, or Roy Beck, or FAIR or Dan Stein….just remember to fully examine the source of the information.
Choose whatever side of the issue you want, but when you accept at face value information from groups like FAIR and Numbers USA, you’ve got to be honest enough with yourself and others to admit that those groups have known ties to white supremecy, eugenics and an agenda that is indeed racist (adn not just about illegal immigration).
That’s all I ask, just be honest about the affiliation of these groups. And if you indeed have no racist agenda, stay away from and loudly speak out against the agendas of these groups.
What father bob said is ridiculous and wrong! If everyone took what father bob said to heart there would be anarchy and chaos! Our civil society based on laws would collapse!
Anon, argue all you want. Your points are ridiculous! Have you read what you wrote? Maybe you cannot read or comprehend English either? I will ignore you from now on!
Anon, quick question: who on this blog ever said to not allow someone from a particular group of people into this country that came here legally? I eagerly await your answer!
The Patriot
I’m waiting with you. I won’t hold my breath!
“Anon, quick question: who on this blog ever said to not allow someone from a particular group of people into this country that came here legally? I eagerly await your answer!”
Again, that’s not my point. Greg, and others, regularly quote statistics from CIS, FAIR, Numbers USA, Roy Beck and Dan Stein. My point is that you cannot rely on those statistics as though they exist in a vaccuum and then present them to your audience as though they come from a non-partisan source with no agenda…or that you’re not furthering the racist agenda by doing so (whether you meant to or not). Just as Greg expects Lowell to accept responsability for what appears on his website, Greg must also do the same.
For goodness sake, Greg has a link to Numbers USA in this very post, and he has repeatedly deleted the information I posted about the racist and white supremecist connections of these groups. He’s not only failing to mention the connections when he references the groups, he’s actively hiding it from the readers of his blog by deleting the information when someone else posts it. It’s his blog and he can do as he pleases, but don’t tell me that Greg isn’t furthering the racist agenda when he actively participates in hiding the connections between Numbers USA and white supremecist groups from his very own readers.
You cannot simply consider CIS, Numbers USA, and FAIR in isolation. You have to consider who founded them, who funded them, and who their people associate with on a regular basis. They associate with known White Supremacists, hatemongers, Neo-Nazis, and Tom Tancredo. They are part of a systematic plan by John Tanton to make hatred of immigrants respectable by disguising that hatred in mainstream language. All of these groups were founded and funded by ONE individual whose primary objective is to rid the United States of people of color.
There is plenty of room for reasonable debate on how much or how few immigrants to let in. But people who use these groups to make their arguments do not understand the biased and xenophobic assumptions that are behind their thought.
As Americans, and decent human beings, we need to create values and policies which benefit all people while still allowing for the United States to have some control over who it does or does not let into it’s borders. We cannot submit to the politics of playing off one group of people against another.
Crafting sensible immigration laws must go hand in hand with continuing the process of fighting racism, homophobia, sexism, wage depression, and the exporting of jobs to third-world countries. The Declaration of Independence reminds us that all people are created equal. Not just all Americans, but all people. Right-wing organizations who teach otherwise do not share the values of this country or our community.
Where is your proof anon that links these groups to what you say? Also, where in the world did you get Tom Tancredo mixed up with that? Proof please!
Anon, while you are getting your proof….do you not know that multiculturalism promotes divisions based on ethnic lines? How is that good? It places a person’s ethnicity higher than integration will all people.
Anon, I provided stats from Department of Homeland Security. Funny thing is…that information when you compare it to what NumbersUSA, CIS, etc. say….they all say similar things! How would you explain that?
The Patriot said on 20 Sep 2007 at 10:32 am:
“Anon, quick question: who on this blog ever said to not allow someone from a particular group of people into this country that came here legally? I eagerly await your answer!”
You ignored this question anon! My statement refutes your xenophobia/racism arguments. Is that why you chose to ignore it?
I would explain it because some of the data used in the studies comes from DHS. That’s not uncommon at all. Both the pro-immigrant groups AND the anti-immigrant groups say that there are 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. Oh MY God! How do you explain that!!!!
Seriously Patriot, some numbers are just numbers, doesnt’ mean that you can ignore the rest of the information about these groups. They’re racists, plain and simple.
Oh, and as for the connection to Tancredo? Here you go:
“Tanton is also a buddy of long-shot presidential hopeful Rep. Tom Tancredo. Staff and lobbyists from CIS and NumbersUSA advise the congressman on domestic policy issues and provide unpaid legislative assistance to the House Commission on Immigration Reform, founded by Tancredo, who recently stepped down to pursue his presidential ambitions. Fellow Colorado Reps. Marilyn Musgrave and Doug Lamborn are also caucus members. Tancredo, in turn, attends the groups’ events, adding a caché of Washington-insider access to their media self-promotion.”
“You ignored this question anon! My statement refutes your xenophobia/racism arguments. Is that why you chose to ignore it?”
No, I addressed your question directly. You’re raising issues that are tangential to the discussion in order to avoid a very direct and reasonable issue that i’ve raised.
If you dont’ have a racist agenda, why does this site promote information by groups who have a racist agenda and promote eugenics?
Tell me, Patriot, why it is okay to promote and disseminate the propaganda of a known hate group?
Anon, you didn’t provide proof at all! You are calling them racist organizations without proof!!!! As far as numbers are concerned, there are probably more than 12 million illegal aliens. Also, show me where someone used the term “anti-immigrant”. Resolutions, news stories, and we on this blog use the term “illegal immigration”.
Actually, anon, you avoided my statement completely! Show me where someone on here said that people of a particular group are not allowed into our country provided they come here legally. While your at it, show me where these organizations have stated that too!
The Patriot
I just got a new fax, and I’ve sent it to both Warner and Webb.
Have you fired off that new fax yet?? I sure did!
Lafayette, I have been calling everyday and e-mailing!
The consistent message (as far as I have seen) from both this blog and organizations and Tom Tancredo is….anyone is welcome into our country provided they come here legally! Period! Simple! Easy to Understand! Plain English!
The Patriot,
I know you have, me too, and hopefully others as well.
Dream Act alright, that’s just what they are doing is DREAMING, if they the legal citizens are stand by and take anymore of the “ILLEGAL INVASION”.
Just say NO, to the “Nightmare Act”!!!
Call and fax Warner and Webb now!!!
The race card is over played.
Go home, Canadians.
Patriot, I have posted the proof numerous times. Greg keeps deleting it.
Proof of????
Anon: 10:59am: Do you really believe that conspiratorial nonsense? That’s pretty funny stuff there. They’re coming to take me away ha ha, they’re coming to take me away hee hee…
Crafting sensible immigration laws is just another term for amnesty. Call a spade a spade please, thanks.
Ohhh Greg keeps deleting it ehh? Right….of courrrse he does. The martians are coming too I suppose? The aliens are sucking my brain out. Take off the tin foil hat, put down the reefer and rejoin us here in reality land.
Dave said “Crafting sensible immigration laws is just another term for amnesty. Call a spade a spade please, thanks.”
Yes. That is exactly what “sensible immigration laws” means…AMNESTY (in political correct terms). There is nothing wrong with our existing laws…they are just not being enforced due to complacency and corruption! Now we the people have awakened to these facts and can see the results of the complacency and corruption! Now we are trying to fix things by enforcing our existing laws!
Is it silent amnesty or something more?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_currency_union
anon: No, YOU miss the point. Stop obsessing about racism. That is not our issue but maybe it is yours. You can’t get off the topic of racism. 20-30 million of mesoamericans are in the US illegally we’re supposed to ignore the illegality because we might seem racist? Would you be defending illegal aliens if they were white? Somehow I don’t think so. You’re the racist. What is your agenda other than to divert focus from the fundamental issue of rule of law?
I didn’t bring the race issue to the table. It was Patriot. He was the one saying:
“Bottom-line….no one should get any kind of advantage based on race! By having a policy like the Dream Act…it is giving an advantage of one race of people over all other races of people which is detrimental to equality for all.”
It doesn’t take an english expoert to understand that you are saying that Dream Act is just for one race.
You keep calling me names but you can hide the fact that you wrote a racists statement. You are bringing race to a discussion that all your pals in this blog say it is not an issue.
Call me whatever you want but please answer the question:
If you are not referring to Hispanics, who are you talking about when you say that the Dram Act will benefit one race.
In that statement you are not talking about how unfair the law is, you are saying that one race will benfit and you don’t like that.
There is nothing sophisticated about what you wrote.
Just say it: I am racist and a red neck apologist, then I will move on.
I laugh Patriot when you justify your position by saying that there is one group favoring illegal aliens, the same group is the one with most people deported, they are the criminals, and blah blah blah. That Is why I can say that it is the race with problems and by default I am not racist. KKK members are white, KK members are racists, then all white people are racist. It doesn’t make sense right? However, you feel entitled to categorize all Hispanic people into the group of illegal aliens who will be the only ones who will be benfited by the Dream Act. Of course, you don’t say Hispanic becaused in your mind if you commit to say then you are racist.
Your comments were racist Patriot!!!
“20-30 million of mesoamericans are in the US illegally we’re supposed to ignore the illegality because we might seem racist?”
Monti,
Sure but that doersn’t make all of the Hispanic in this country criminals. It is like saying that our Secretary of State is a criminal because of the crime that I see committed by blacks in DC. So when Patriot says those are facts, it is like saying that because a group commits a crime all of them are the same. Then answer you the question Monti, is his/her statement racist?
SEE…as usual…you are making absolutely no sense whatsoever. Do you have a problem reading English too?
The facts I presented were from DHS. I reported what they put together. Other sources that many people have provided here say similar things as DHS. Please SEE and anon…give us a source to refute these facts!
SEE…why don’t you provide a specific derogatory quote to back up your claim. Pointing out known facts from other sources does not count!
SEE said “However, you feel entitled to categorize all Hispanic people into the group of illegal aliens”
SEE, I can’t wait for you to provide your proof quote on this…[remember now…you used the word “all” so make sure you can back that up]
SEE…while your at it I asked anon the following (which he/she did not answer)…why don’t you answer it…
“Anon, quick question: who on this blog ever said to not allow someone from a particular group of people into this country that came here legally? I eagerly await your answer!”
Sadly this is not the no-spin zone. You keep calling me names r lack of reading skills but you are not answering the question:
Which race were you talking about? Is that comment racist or not?
Plain English, right?
I think you made a racist comment and you are not addressing it. Why did you bring race to the issue of illegal immigration? We are not talking about facts or data, just your comment.
Admit that you made a racist comment and I will move on. Otherwise I will bring this up everytime you try to justify an argument.
If we know you are racist then it is clear what you are trying to achieve here, But by bringing quotes from sources that clearly tied to racist groups and then say that you are just for the rule of law….It doesn’t work my red neck apologist.
I have no problems by saying that my argument is racist. You are defending one group only and I oppose to that./ People can see what i am trying to accomplish. In your case you don’t even want to mention the name of the group you oppose.
anon…you must be SEE? Avoiding the situation are you? Maybe you are TH in disguise? Who was calling anyone names? Proof please! Oh…and liberal is not a bad name. I provided all the information using sources addressing your questions. Maybe you need help reading?
Dave B
Great comments!!! We must remember not everyone lives in reality land. We do, because we see and live the effects of the “illegal invasion” all over the “red carpet” each and every day. Some just don’t like hard core true facts of what has become of our community.
That’s their problem I say, because it will land on their doorsteps too. Then they will be raising more hell than any of us against illegal aliens. They also simply can’t see past their own front porch.
You are saying that a group is being opposed? What group??? Proof please again! All groups are welcome to come here as long as they do it legally! What are you talking about???
Patriot,
Don’t spin it! You said:”By having a policy like the Dream Act…it is giving an advantage of one race of people over all other races of people which is detrimental to equality for all.”
Why is this a race issue? That’s my question since yesterday when you decided to hide.
I am not saying that you have said that you are agianst legal immigration. YOu have said it many time that you accept legal aliens but you are not answering to the fact that your comment above, a faux pas ala Imus, is a racist statement. That’s all!
Nopw that you cannot find an argument you are calling me what TH. That doesn’t make any sense. Is that an insult?
Answer the question? Is your comment racist? Are you the Imus of BVBL?
anon….you clearly are reaching and taking that out of context! The only group I hear really pushing the Dream Act is the NCLR (an ethnic based organization)! That is a fact! Just like the DHS numbers. I report what I hear and see. Nice try!
Gosh Patriot is your comment. I didn’t take it out of context. Now you didn’t sat that?
My question is not about the numbers or who we are deporting.
In simple 2nd grade English: Is your comment racist?
Answer or maybe is just time for you to hide again.
I will give that to you that NCLR is the only group supporting that but Is your comment racist? Why not? you are linking race with the Dream Act. Why is so hard for you to accept that fact?
anon…you liberals have the same old tired excuse…if anyone opposes illegal immigration they are racist and xenophobic!
You know this is a total crock! You only use this excuse because you have no valid arguments! What you all fail to address is the most critical piece of our argument which is….no policy should be made that favors any one ethnic group. Policies should be made for the good of all people! Additionally, all people are welcome to come here as long as it is done legally. So why don’t you just pack it up!
Actually anon, NCLR is linking race with the Dream Act. I merely reported that fact!
anon,
Patriot is referring to TH, anotyher blogger who posted a lot of numbers against him/her and Patriot didn’t like it.
I think the question that anon is posing is very clear. Why are you trying to call him/her TH, just answer. I think you messed up and you brought race to the debate and now you don’t know what to do.
Anon,
This is directly from NCLR:
“The National Council of La Raza (NCLR) – the largest national Hispanic civil rights and advocacy organization in the United States – works to improve opportunities for Hispanic Americans. Through its network of nearly 300 affiliated community-based organizations (CBOs), NCLR reaches millions of Hispanics each year in 41 states, Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia. To achieve its mission, NCLR conducts applied research, policy analysis, and advocacy, providing a Latino perspective in five key areas – assets/investments, civil rights/immigration, education, employment and economic status, and health. In addition, it provides capacity-building assistance to its Affiliates who work at the state and local level to advance opportunities for individuals and families.”
Shouldn’t they be working on policies for the good of ALL people vice just hispanics/latinos?
SEE…answer the questions above. Until you do…you have ZERO credibility.
“What you all fail to address is the most critical piece of our argument which is….no policy should be made that favors any one ethnic group.Policies should be made for the good of all people! Additionally, all people are welcome to come here as long as it is done legally. So why don’t you just pack it up!”
THANKS Patriot! Now we know that you have this bias and I get it. You don’;t like Hispanics or Mulsims. Fine. You said it , you believe this is a policy that benefits one group and you don’t like it. Then from your point of view, opposing illegal immigration is not about a crime but about the injustice of favoring one group.
I think that statement is racist but that is fine. WE KNOW YOU NOW! I won’t call you red neck apologist anymore, just racist.
anon…please provide me with the quote that said I didn’t like anyone or any group? If you cannot (which you won’t be able to…because I never did say anything like that) your credibility is ZERO!
You have issues Patriot. Since when I am the president of La Raza. I have no credibility because YOU think that I support La Raza. Don’t get mad at me, you are the racist here. As racist as La Raza. NOw we know why you don’t like Hispanics. You say that you don’t have anything against legal aliens. The people who work for La Raza are here legally, then it is just a matter of you hating groups who don’t look like you.
I am not the one who have lost credibility, you did with those two statements that show bias against a particular ethnic group when the whole debate was not against race but crime
SEE…you obviously cannot read English? Did you read the NCLR words??? Wow…you never cease to amaze me with your nonsense! Oh…you too…please provide the quote that says I don’t like any group of people! I will be waiting.
Credibility or not, you are the one who linked the issue of race with the Dream act. Move on pal. Is it so hard for you to accept that you mix this two things. The quote is there you just have to accept that you made a mistake. We will pardon you.
anon…now what kind of proof is that? Provide the quote that says I don’t like anyone or a group of people [that is what you said]. Time for you to back it up…pal!
You take us for stupid or what. Answer the question: Was your comment racist? We read what you said about La Raza and DHS, and what go told you, but you are not answering the question: Were those comments racist just by the fact tha you put together illegal immigration with a race issue?
It is not an issue of hating a group or not; Did you post a racist comment?
You have called me everything, but the fact reamins: you haven’t answer my question.
Maybe I need to ask it differently?
Are you racist? or just the the Imus of BVBL?
Provide your proof! And I hardly see putting together facts from cited sources as being racist (although that is what you liberals always like to say when you disagree with the facts and have no valid arguments).
anon, do you think policies should be made for the good of ALL people or favor a particular group or groups of people based on ethnicity?
Answer the question! I am Ricardo Juarez or Nancy, Whatever!
Dir you make comment that can be considered racist. Have you noticed that you cannot even answer NO. I have to go now, so folks around BVBL here is my conclusion: Since Patriot doesn’t want to eother confirm or deny that he,she is racist thenwe can conclude that he/ she is racist based on what he/she wrote. Not based on what he/she thinks about librals, zapatistas, apologist,etc. That is not the point. He/she cannot come to terms with a reality that he/she had buried and a faux pas showed. Hasta la vista, Racist!
anon said “You have called me everything”
What did I call you? A liberal? Is that not what you are? Is that not a legit political view on the left?
Anon…I did not make a comment as you suggest! I already explained that two posts above yours!
You stated that I dislike groups of people with your quote “You don’;t like Hispanics or Mulsims. Fine.”
Please provide the actual quotes to back up your statement above!
“anon, do you think policies should be made for the good of ALL people or favor a particular group or groups of people based on ethnicity?”
Oh I just read this, even better. It assumes that only one ethnic group will benefit from the Dream Act. Patriot come on. It is not about fair or unfair but your racism cannot see beyond that. Of course that the majority of thos kids who will be benefited withb the Dream Act are Hispanic, but the are polish, lithuanian, irish, and other kids who are here illegally. They are a minoryt, yes but this law doesn’t say: You are Hispanic or as you say it that “one race”, you get amnesty. When you portary the law in those terms it reflects racism. Don’t even answer to my question. I know what you are: racist. In my case I am zapatista, liberal, etc, no need to call me anything. I accept it. In your case I hope that tonight when you go to sleep you can reflect on what you wrote and say to yourself: Men I racist.
Poor me:liberal, but not racist….
Common sense says that this DREAM act was made to pander to the Hispanic community. 99.99999% of the people that will take advantage of this act (and the American people by default) will be Hispanic. What a ridiculous stretch for you to say that this is racist to see. Judging by your 3rd grade ability to compose a sentence, I would say that it is not a stretch to also assume that your cognitive abilities to grasp that concept are also at a similar level. Patriot: stop sparring with this clown (both anon and SEEYOURPROBLEM are no doubt the same person based on their writing skills), ‘they’ are not worth your time. The only thing ‘they’ are interested in is trying to make us bend under the mighty word “racist”. Well I’ve got news for you anon, etc; homie don’t play that.
Dave B.
You are on a roll today, I see. You are right these people are not worth the time to argue with. That’s what I told Anon-signs mom, I’ve got more important things to do. She didn’t seem to like that. Oh, well. I’m still here and haven’t seen her, and if I did I would just cruise right on by it.
I would remind all remember is about RULE OF LAW!!
Nothing to do race. That’s just the tune the pro-illegals like to sing. Free Ride-Edgar Winter. (JL, I hope you see this too)
corr
Nothing to do WITH race.
Lafayette: Yep, I see it
What this “Dream Act” really is is a NIGHTMARE. This Act, pushed by DICK Durbin (D, Ill), what is it about Congressmen and Senators from Illinois???, will let illegal aliens get IN STATE TUITION!!!! Heck, let me sneak into Indiana so my youngest can get in-state tuition to the University of Notre Dame!!!! WHAT a disgrace!!!
The illegals THINK they are a Ramblin’ Man “Tryin’ to make a livin’ and doin’ the best I can/And when it’s time for leavin’” (Allman Brothers) but I say, they can’t be a leavin soon enough!!!
Dave B or Lafayette,
I don’t think you are racist. I said that the comment Patriot made was racist. You are not saying thta you are against the Dream Act because it will benefit Hispanics. You are saying thta it is unfair for american families and about the rule of law.
Patriot said that he/she is against it because it will benefit one race, then his comments tie illegal immigration with race.
Read my posts, i said that I am against the Dream Act but I hate when people like Patriot come here and make it a race issue. You can see that he/she doesn’t even deny it by answering the question. if you think I am clown because I am asking him/her a question so be it.
anon 4:00
Thanks for the clarification. I’ve said it before not ALL anon, fall into the same category. It is hard to keep up with who’s who with regards to the anons. Your point is well taken.
John Light,
Maybe Durbin is a relative of Nancy L or John Steinbach, or any of the other pro-illegal supporters or cry babies should I say. Let me tell ya, John Steinbach became quite emotional and loud while addressing the PWCBOS. Why don’t these folks just give it up, and move on right back to their country of origin with their illegal apologist “amigos”, and yes take their anchor babies too.
The Nightmare Act also extends visas - instate tuition is only a part of it. Please continue to call your Senators to VOTE NO on the Dream Act, because Tricky Dick is attempting to get it through in an “amended” version. Incremental is what change agents are all about. Keep up the momentum!
Legal2,
Let’s not forgot with all the military families we have in The Commonwealth, those children don’t always get instate tuition. Illegals can, and yet children of the men and women who so proudly serve and protect our great nation can NOT.
Having read through all this “racist,” “no I’m not,” “yes you are” dribble….it causes me to think even more on the issue. So what? Judge me as you wish!
I know my heart and I know my thoughts about all people…and I’m quite content with my inner self. In fact, in my opinion, it is most often the “true racist” who levels the charge.
If you wish to call me “racist,” knock yourself out…it maketh not a whit to me!
Build the fence and deport the 12-30 million illegal aliens. No DREAM Act for anyone who broke the law. If these children want to become good citizens, send them back to their countries and come back through the proper and legal channels.