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Connolly Claims “Do Nothing” Is Working
By Greg L | 22 September 2007 | Fairfax County, Illegal Aliens | 36 Comments
While Gerry Connolly is touting a supposed drop in crimes associated with gang activity according to a Washington Post article, the article entirely fails to mention that the Northern Virginia Gang Task Force, brainchild of Congressman Frank Wolf, has been actively working to deport criminal illegal aliens with the cooperation of dedicated personnel from the Immigration And Customs Enforcement Agency for several years. Connolly trumpets the results of this study as somehow being the result of “reaching out to youths” and other feel-good approaches which aren’t necessarily bad, but not at all proven to be effective. More likely, if this is actually happening, the focus on deporting criminal illegal alien gang members is removing hard-core gang bangers from our streets and deterring those who might consider participating in this kind of criminal activity.
One of the best parts of this article is when folks start to question how these “results” were obtained.
Not everyone agrees. Phil Jones, coordinator of the new anti-illegal immigration group Help Save Fairfax, questioned the numbers and called for the county police to provide a full accounting of how crimes are determined to be gang-related.
“The whole idea that the crimes that are gang-related have gone down would require them to keep some kind of statistics on the gangs themselves,” Jones said. “There’s no data to support it.”
Officer Courtney Thibault, a Fairfax police spokeswoman, said yesterday that no one was available to explain how the statistics are collected or to elaborate on the report’s finding that gang-related crimes have dropped even further this year.
This is pretty pathetic. Not only can’t anyone cogently explain why gang-related crime is dropping, but they can’t even demonstrate that a drop in gang crime is actually happening by explaining their basis for this conclusion. And this is supposed to be the rationale for not having criminal illegal aliens deported after their sentences are completed, rather than being released back into our communities. A Pretty thin argument, if you ask me.
Gerry Connolly does not want criminal illegal aliens to be deported in Fairfax, and he’s grasping at straws here to justify his policy. The electorate in Fairfax should send him a message that regardless of these ridiculous attempts at justification, he should simply be doing his job to protect the residents of Fairfax from criminal illegal aliens. Better yet, they could send him into retirement this November.
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I think Connolly needs to move and retire like Rip Van Hilda!
He sure didn’t like it a couple of months ago when his office got slammed with all kinds of calls. I heard one woman on the Chris Core Show on WMAL, say she’d been hung up on twice.
Boy, that’s a real funny way of showing your constiuents that you care about their concerns.
Gang task force lost their funding. Stewart mentioned it to congress in the part of his briefing that was planned.
I couldn’t find the part where Connolly said that “do nothing” was working, but maybe it’s in there somewhere. What I have seen in Fairfax is this: Up to now, the County has said that it will look to behavior, not status. I’m no Connolly fan, but this seems pretty sensible. If I (a US citizen) commit a housing or motor vehicle violation, I get a citation that is identical to what a legal resident alien or an illegal resident alien receives for the same behavior. That effectively addresses the concerns that I often see on this site. Once we dilute the local goverment enforcement machinery by siccing them on status issues (a federal responsibility), we incur expenses that are federal responsibilities, distract our enforcers from dealing with local law violations, and let the feds off the hook (at least locally) for their neglect of immigration reform. I’ll still vote for Baise, but Connolly and others up here seem to have their heads screwed on pretty straight on this issue. If PWC thinks going down another road is hunky-dory, let’s let the two counties try their policies out for a year and assess which one worked best over that period. In the meantime, we can all push hard for federal reforms so that we get a meaningful national solution.
Congressman Wolf said that gangs are a huge problem in NVA, when he visited Manassas for Jackson Miller’s breakfast fundraiser. He talked about it with a high level of concern that our local representatives were not getting the full picture, and thus not taking it as seriously as they should. This just confirms what he said.
Perhaps Gerry Connolly should have a good sit down talk with Frank Wolf.
Better yet, maybe he should have a close encounter with one (or more) of these illegal aliens while taking an evening stroll down Wilson Blvd.
NOVA Scout: since when was crossing our borders unlawfully not “behavior”? He’s being terribly selective about his criteria about what is an is not “behavior”.
While the feds have the responsibility to secure our borders, and are failing us miserably, the effects are definitely a local issue. “Behavior”, which Connolly seems eager to ignore, such as applying for public benefits they are not entitled to, identity theft, violation of labor laws, tax evasion, theft of services from local hospitals, is getting studiously ignored by Connolly.
Despite Connolly’s protestations, this is not only a zoning compliance issue. He’s done terribly little to even handle that in any meaningful way, until he made a lot of noise recently about “strike forces” as a result of bad PR, which really haven’t accomplished much.
Why isn’t he answering calls to participate in the Section 287(g) Program? Is he really in favor of keeping illegal aliens in Fairfax County who are on the sex offender registry? Isn’t that connected with “behavior” to some degree?
Something that folks often ignore when they talk about “people whose only crime is to be in the US illegally” is that these illegal aliens who may well not be committing street crime provide the networks that allow the street criminals to function and make it more difficult to crack down on these criminals. More and more of the people crossing the border illegally are “joining” someboy already here. Not all of them are looking for jobs hanging drywall.
Everybody is so fearful of appearing to be “profiling” that this important fact is overlooked.
Uninspected entry never happens in Fairfax, Greg. Unless my geography is all screwed up, it never happens in Prince William, either. You and I agree that the Congress and the federal government have shown nothing but profound, reckless neglect toward the immigration issue. But no Fairfax supervisor or cop is going to be able to fix that. If we focus on crime, zoning, littering, motor vehicle operations, we mitigate the impacts of federal failure far more effectively and with greater respect for the taxpayers than if we send the Fairfax police out on a chase after uninspected entrants who should have been stopped 1500 miles from here.
“If we focus on crime, zoning, littering, motor vehicle operations, we mitigate the impacts of federal failure far more effectively and with greater respect for the taxpayers than if we send the Fairfax police out on a chase after uninspected entrants who should have been stopped 1500 miles from here.”
NoVA,
No one is here is suggesting that we ignore other crimes and quality of life issues in favor of having cops “chase” illegal aliens. In fact, no one is suggesting that we have cops chase them at all.
The other issues you mention often leads law enforcement to the discovery of people who have an illegal presence in this county. Once police learn they are there, we should work with ICE and the 287 program to remove them. So in other words, instead of chasing them, we do something about it when we find them.
Not all illegals enter via the US/Mexico border. Last time I looked at a map, Virginia does have a coastline and an international airport. Thus it is possible to enter the US directly in Virginia. As for those that should have been stopped 1500 miles ago, yes that is true, but illegal entrants do not receive a green card once they leave Texas, California, Arizona, or any other state along our southern border. If they come north to Virginia or any other state, they are still here illegally and must be removed whenever and wherever they are discovered.
In addition, many illegals aliens entered the country legally with temporary, tourist, or student visas and are now illegal because their visas have expired. Thus it is very possible that an illegal entered the US legally, was here in Virginia legally, and became illegal while staying here (or in any other state for that matter). Thus their illegal status began when they were here, and they should not have been refused entry, but should have left when their legal stay expired.
JM,
Well said. Let’s not forget International airport in neigboring county. They sure can come directly to Virginia. Excellent point along with all others.
Bob S,
I will meet you Monday morning how about 8:15? SMS, start time is 8:05. It get very ugly along Lomond Dr. around 8am.
Let me know if that’s ok. Also, now going to Skins game after Nats game. I will look for message later tonight.
Allison,
Thank you for the skins tix. Now, GO SKINS!!!! They will be enjoyed and occupied by lifetime fans too!!
NoVa Scout:
Your argument that local officials should address behavior rather than status is a prescription for defeat. We might as well open the borders and allow anyone into this country, then concentrate on weeding out the bad ones. Maybe such a plan makes sense to you, but not to me. The federal government has avoided its responsibilitie, leaving the citizens of this region and state vulnerable to crime and economic turmoil. The local governments have the obligation to protect us from the effects of federal malfeasance. Status should be addressed as well as behavior to deter illegals from coming here and to encourage those already here to unass. And it’s working here in PWC.
Greg:
The unfunded “brainchild of Congressman Frank Wolf” was simply another ploy of his to divert attention away from the real issue (influx of illegals), that developed on his watch. It’s another empty effort that he and his yellow dog supporters can add to his list of empty efforts that, taken together or separately, don’t add up to a pint of piss. He, Warner, Allen, Davis, and their brethren at the federal level are responsible for this mess. The sooner they all follow Allen’s bootprints into the sunset, the better for the Commonwealth and the Nation.
Meanwhile, the governor of New York is giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. I believe that Virginia will be required to recognize them as valid. See: http://www.ny.gov/governor/press/0921071.html
All elected officials (mayors, governors, senators, reps, etc.) should be prosecuted for aiding and abetting when they do these things! Tom Tancredo says that is precisely what he would do!
Speaking of NY: http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_264172034.html
“We’re changing our policy with respect to getting more people out of shadows and into the system so people don’t hide they’re here,” Spitzer said.”
NOVA Scout has it right. No need for me to be redundant.
And, Gerry Connolly did talk about cooperation with federal law enforcement agencies, including the possibility of a 287g agreement, a point that you glossed over/misrepresented in your post:
“Our public safety agencies routinely cooperate with ICE. The Office of the Sheriff, for example, reports as many as 50 illegal immigrants a month to ICE for follow-up action, and in the past fiscal year, the sheriff housed 338 illegal immigrants at the request of ICE. We now are looking to expand that partnership under the federal 287(g) program, with additional enforcement authority. ”
But, he also talked about the positive benefits of ensuring that the 40% of the population in Fairfax County who are historical minorities feel welcome and included in their communities … benefits that include increased cooperation with police leading to reduced gang violence and other criminal activity.
And, while we can debate the merits of Spitzer’s policy of protecting public safety by ensuring that everyone driving on NY roads is licensed and insured regardless of status, it is not debatable whether New York drivers licenses are entitled to “recognition” in Virginia. They are not, in the sense of the poster’s question … i.e., allowing someone to go get one that can be used indefinitely in VA.
Only tourists and those not “residing” in Virginia more than 60 days may drive here on a NY license. Anyone who is an actual physical resident of Virginia and who has a valid license from another state must get a Virginia drivers license within 60 days of moving to Virginia, and everyone who applies for a Virginia license must show lawful presence regardless of whether they have a valid out of state license. Persons who come to reside/live in Virginia from foreign countries do not have a 60 day grace period. They are legally required to get a VA license immediately or face the consequences (including abusive driver fees) if caught driving without a valid Virginia license.
New York’s approach to drivers’ licenses is smart and something that I’m sure everyone here agrees with, given the number of comments I see about driver-related violations of state and local law. Think how much better things would be if these unlicensed drivers had licenses, insurance, and could be traced in the event there was an accident. A system for licensing everyone, regardless of status, is something I’m sure we all support.
JM: you make an accurate point that Dulles is an international Port of Entry and that we could be having entry violations here. I was thinking about that as I commented, but thought that it was more of an exception that proved the rule I was advocating than anything else. But since you brought it up: If there are uninspected entrants slipping by Customs at Dulles, I suspect their numbers are minimal. Even if this is happening, as a Fairfax taxpayor, I would not support charging our local police to enforce this. This is a federal responsibilty and I don’t want to dilute my meager (actually, it has been fairly substantial by my modest standards)public safety resources to have our county guys trying to work that beat.
Scout - How very, very nice to read your sensible comments!
As for licenses, I moved to VA fr another state; lived in a furnished apartment waiting for the house to be ready, so didn’t have a firm address. 2-3 weeks later I was stopped early on a Sunday morning, I don’t know why, and told in no uncertain terms to get my VA license and registraton pronto. I told the officer abt my situation, and he got hot under the collar asking whether I was questioning a police officer’s action. No objection fr me! That was my introduction to Fairfax PD, so I guess they are doing their duty
New York’s idea — which is tantamount to official sanctuary for illegal aliens, is absurd. Driver’s licenses are in many ways used to document legal presence, albeit imperfectly. Granting effective legal presence to those not entitled to that status is outrageous.
Illegal aliens are perfectly capable of driving using the driver’s licenses of their home countries, or with international driver’s licenses. If they happen to break the law by staying longer than they should, the last thing we should consider is granting them an amnesty by allowing them to obtain driver’s licenses that they should not legally be allowed to have. Unlawful presence should have penalties, not be rewarded with this outrageous free pass.
And you better believe that VA will be required to honor those NYS driver’s licenses under the constitution, as long as the state doesn’t have proof that the person has been in Virginia more than 90 days. If you think illegal aliens aren’t going to falsely claim that they just got here last week when they’re questioned by law enforcement officials, you’re living in a fantasyland. How many of these people falsely claim to be related to a homeowner or renter in order to evade residential overcrowding controls already!
When Connolly starts making more substantive comments about 287(g) than “I’m considering it” during an election year, I’ll start paying attention. Right now I can’t see this as anything other than BS. When is it scheduled for a public debate, a hearing, or for a vote? That’s right, it’s not! Connolly will have this “under consideration” until he leaves office, or until citizens legitimately beat him up so much on this that he cannot afford to continue stonewalling.
“NoVA Scout said on 23 Sep 2007 at 2:32 pm:
New York’s approach to drivers’ licenses is smart and something that I’m sure everyone here agrees with, given the number of comments I see about driver-related violations of state and local law.”
Huh??? That is the most ridiculous statement ever! NY is nothing but a sanctuary city and the mayor needs to be prosecuted! All the individuals that received those licenses now need to be tracked down and deported! That is sensible!
When people have valid drivers licenses from other states they can lie to the police as I have witnessed when I sent a letter to the Chief of police here in PWC and he sent his officers to the address’ I gave. The officer that talked with me after checking all the address’ told me that when he spoke to the individuals and that they lived in Maryland and only lived here a couple days a week. Which is total bunk. I see their cars in my parking lot every day of the week, not just a couple. But what are the police to do if they have valid drivers licenses? NY divers licenses will be treated the same. Illegals will be driving on out of state drivers licenses and not paying any taxes to the state of Virginia, getting out of the shadows is a bunch of bull, they are avoiding paying taxes to the state they live in. Another revenus loss to Virginia. There are currently 8 vehicles with Maryland plates on them just on one side of my condo complex that I can see without walking around. Last night I took a drive up Adler road and counted 11 vehicles with Maryland plates on them parked on both sides of the road. Most I’ve seen are speaking Spanish as they walk to a condo that always has it’s screen door open. I’m not saying they are illegal, but they live in Virginia and are breaking the overcrowding ordinance and still using out of state plates. Connect the dots.
“Patriot”, actually, we’re talking about New York State, not New York City. Look, man, if you want a system that holds people responsible for how they drive their vehicles, you’ve got to be in favor of some kind of licensing for everyone who drives a car or truck.
Advocator: you missed the part where 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants are already here now. My approach addresses this issue. Once you realize the current reality, I’m sure you’ll see the point of getting a grip on what we’re dealing with.
No doubt the Md plates were obtained from the Gaithersburg MVA. There was 6 month period of time that began last fall, I beleive, when this station opened very early, at MOCO taxpayer expense, to usher in illegals to get drivers licenses before anyone would notice. I am not entirely sure of the exact months during which this happened, but it is a rock solid FACT confirmed in a Help Save MD meeting last week with the police chiefs of MOCO and G’burg. A group called Citizens Above Party was initially run off the premises by Latinos for taking pics of this little known criminal enterprise concocted by the MD General Assembly, but eventually they were able to put a stop to it. How outrageous is that???
Greg: a comment I made earlier seems to have gotten lost in the ether, so I’ll try to replicate it now: Why are driver’s licenses tantamount to “amnesty” or “sanctuary”? Why not issue some sort of provisional license that simply ensures that all drivers have been tested for minimal driver skills and use that data base to enforce compulsory insurance and traceability. No one ever asks me for my drivers’ for anything other than to ascertain that I am a lawful vehicle operator and to verify my identity in a motor vehicle context (I sometimes also use it to verify identity when I do a credit card transaction, but I could just as easily use a passport or some other picture ID). In my scenario, every state would issue these licenses, so there would be no more reason for an illegal alien with a New York license not to transfer his licensing to Virginia than there is for me or you.
Here are some more “good, hard working illegal’s”
4 men arrested in headless body case
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7112476
NOVA, when I enter a federal building, I provide my Driver’s License. When I travel on an airplane, I do the same. When I cash a check, rent property, request use of public property such as using a public facility, am admitted to the hospital, or in a multitude of other cases need to allow someone to definitively know who I am, I am required to use a driver’s license, although in many cases a passport or other identity document would suffice. It’s a really powerful document.
In effect, a driver’s license really establishes legal presence for the most part. There are few (if any) current instances where a driver’s license would not be accepted as government-approved establishment of identity, and as such would allow someone to do such things as open a bank account. Granting driver’s licenses to those who do not have legal presence (something not currently permitted under Virginia law) sanctions the unlawful presence of illegal aliens.
The better idea is to discourage their unlawful presence, rather than making that unlawful presence more comfortable, or accepted.
Greg: It doesn’t establish a legal presence. It establishes that you know how to drive (of course we know that it doesn’t really do that very well). It has become a short-hand identity check and it probably shouldn’t be used that way. In any event, I have never heard anyone here say that they are against establishing identities of illegal immigrants or that illegals shouldn’t ride airplanes or have bank accounts (although I suppose now I will).
I agree that there shouldn’t be one illegal immigrant in the country, but my idea about how to deal with this most effectively and yours are worlds apart. I see this as a federal issue. Now that there are millions of illegal immigrants in the country, my approach concentrates on how to intelligently address the problems that people here complain about. After looking at this over the past few months, my sense of the best policy is to make sure that existing local laws are obeyed. That was where this thread started.
NoVA Scout: You’re wrong. It DOES establish legal presence. In order to renew my expired drivers license I had to provide proof of citizenship (birth certificate), legal residence in VA (copies of mortgage statments), and legal identity (marriage license, divorce decree and second marriage license).
Considering that VA DMV no longer accepts original documents (I had to request and pay for “new” certified originals from various jurisdictions) and it took me — someone born and raised in the U.S. — 5 weeks and $350 worth of new documents to prove I was a legal citizen and was who I said I was. Shouldn’t everyone have to provide the same?
Adding insult to injury is that each time I attempted to renew my license, the person behind the counter telling me I didn’t have sufficient documents was speaking in almost unintelligible, broken English. It was infuriating to say the least.
Furthermore, during each and every attempt at the DMV I personally witnessed several people, most of whom barely spoke any English, acquire drivers licenses and/or walker’s ID with nothing more than a passport.
We should also stop making the driving test available in any other language than English. Those who do not speak or read the English language cannot possibly understand traffic signs and signals and thus the numerous bad/dangerous drivers on the roads. Futhermore, if they do not understand what they are reading and/or signing, they probably don’t understand the insurance requirements either, thus the numerous uninsured drivers on the roads.
Giving anyone who hasn’t been put thru the ringer like I was a drivers license is a bad idea and does, in effect, provide them with a sort of amnesty.
Prior to the new passport debacle, a valid Virginia drivers license and voter registration card were not acceptable to gain re-entry into the United States from Canada. I had one hell of a time coming back in along the Montana/Alberta border checkpoint summer of 2004. So much for legal presence. After putting up with a ration of you know what for about 15 minutes we were finally all re-admitted into our own country.
It sounds like different standards are used at different DMV sites. I inadvertently let my license expire. I made the discovery the day after my birthday. I was under the assumption the expiration date was at the end of my birth month rather than on my actual birthday. (check your license expiration! Think dumb and assume nothing!)
I had to produce my birth certificate and a marriage license, nothing else. People around me who were not native speakers were being denied left and right. The entire process was a huge pain in the butt. I did find out that DMV does not keep records for very long. Perhaps this needs to be improved since I had originally gotten my first license years ago, in Virginia, under my maiden name. No such record of that fateful day existed.
There are several issues being checked I surmised. Citizenship as well as state residency were being established. My expired license was used to establish my Virginia residency. I never had to produce mortgage records or utility bills. I would like to have the option of having a citizenship card. Those who don’t like that idea could continue jumping through hoops. One day of it was enough for me.
“Considering that VA DMV no longer accepts original documents ” - Sorry ’bout your bad luck, but that’s not the case. Just had to get a new one for one of the kids, original documentation, in and out in less than 20 minutes. If you have and issue with clerks, I would suggest the Warrenton office, they speak marvelous English, are relatively quick and the lines are short. That’s why I drove the few extra miles to go to that one instead of the one in Manassas. If that’s too far, the one in Chantilly used to offer similar standards of service.
“Prior to the new passport debacle, a valid Virginia drivers license and voter registration card were not acceptable to gain re-entry into the United States from Canada” - Sorry ’bout your bad luck as well, what did you do to piss off customs. I went back and forth this summer with only a driver’s license and a hangover.
What’s most troubling is that I keep finding myself in agreement with NOVAScout (it’s starting to give me night chills). Greg, where do you draw the line on picking up the tab for Federal responsibilities. Should we fund a unit to inspect foreign meat products imported into PWC for BSE (mad cow disease) and hold it for USDA. Should we fund another unit to test imported toys for lead and then report violators to the CPSC. Given the miserable performance of the FDA in recent years, maybe the county should take over the testing of pharmaceuticals and medical devices, that should only cost a couple of hundred million in start-up costs.
The bottom line is that funding things like 287g aren’t as simple as you make them out to be and there are a lot of attendant fiscal and service costs to the program that seem to get considerable short shrift here. More to the point, how will fund those costs and if you fund them do you have to fund other programs to make up for other shortcomings by Feds state, regional or local authorities, failures such as our current transportation infrastructure. Don’t get me wrong, with some changes to the tax structure we could probably afford to do all of this but if I wanted a preponderance of my paycheck to be deducted for taxes, I would have moved to Canada, at least the fishing is better there. Unless you’re willing to do that (and by that I mean all of you and you will have to convince the rest of us while you’re at it) before you start screaming for funding for a progam whose true cost is both unknown and principally a Federal obligation we’ve already paid for, GET THE F*** in line, those of us with long standing issues whose funding has been deferred or ignored are ahead of you in line and we are no more patient than you are.
Mom
Must have been that old southern charm because a driver’s license is now not supposed to be valid identification for border crossing. I tried the southern charm and also had to throw out my half eaten steak dinner because it was Canadian beef. My hard time crossing was before the new law went into effect.
Seriously, it must be another one of those location issues. The hard time I got was crossing between Glacier National Park and Waterton National Park in Montana and Alberta. It was a very rural crossing, we were the only ones there, and the agent had time to mess with us and editorialize for about 15 minutes. He was the only one there and I can assure you I did nothing other than exist to piss him off.
As for your crossing with an hangover, I guess that is just another law that isn’t enforced.
MOM: we’re allowed to agree once in a while. We’re both consenting adults.
Gidget: I’m very glad your views about language haven’t caught hold anywhere in the world. I’ve driven in around 20 foreign countries, and only in three of them (France, Germany and Spain) do I understand the language (well, in the UK, I have a sense of what they’re saying). But I wouldn’t be very happy if there were a rule that you had to be fluent in a language to drive there. It very rarely makes a difference if you know the road signs and their symbology.
NoVA Scout: Never said fluency was a requirement, but knowledge and understanding of the language is a must, wouldn’t you agree? And frankly if one is going to be employed in service to the general public I don’t think it is asking too much for them to be able to communicate well with those they are offering service to. (anyone else get frustrated at 7-11??)
The aggravation at being questioned about my citizenship and identification by someone who barely spoke intelligible english, was the point I was trying to make. I had a hard time understanding what they were telling me and they had a difficult time understanding the questions I was asking them.
Putting this into perspective, if someone doesn’t read, speak or understand the language well enough to communicate, how can they be expected to understand a road sign like “do not enter”, “one way street” etc.? Take it one step further, how many may now be claiming they are defaulting on their mortgage loan because they didn’t understand what they were being told or what they were signing.
It’s one thing if someone is visiting a foreign country, it’s completely different if their intent is to live and work there there permanently. All I’m saying is if our country is so great that people flock here — legally AND illegally– then the least they can do is learn the language. They can speak whatever language they want in the privacy of their own home, but if they have a job with public contact, for crying out loud, learn the language!!
Anonymous 5:12 - My original birth certificate was far older than one of your kids’. Mine was from 44 years ago and had my footprints, my mother fingerprints and official seal of the hospital and stamp from the state. I have used it before and never had a problem. Now it is no longer acceptable thus I had to obtain a new “original” from the state. Same thing with my 20 year old marriage license. Not to mention I didn’t have a parent there to vouch for me. (smile) And this was at the Chantilly office.
On a side note, I really panicked when I went to obtain my new “original” birth certificate and they asked me for my….(drum roll please)… drivers license!! Not having a valid one, I was turned away. Now here’s the scary part. I got my new original by going on-line, completing a multiple choice questionaire and using a credit card to pay the fee. Glad it worked, but way too easy if you ask me.
Gidget: what’s necessary is an ability to understand what the signs indicate. The reason we have scooched toward more international signage is so anyone, regardless of language, can understand what they need to do on the road. Thus, there shouldn’t be any problem with someone taking a drivers’ test in spanish or Norwegian, as long as they can establish that they know that the triangle means “yield” and that red means “stop.” I drive in Greece from time to time. I can read Greek lettering, so I know when I’m on the road to Corinth or Delphi. I can read the street signs and check them off against a Greek language map. That’s about all I need to know. Spanish and English use the same alphabet. So a Spaniard who knows no English knows that he is on Dolley Madison and not on Arlington Boulevard.
People who immigrate here (legally or illegally) do learn English. Not overnight. Not in a year. But in a generation or two, just the way your ancestors and mine did.
Your point about service personnel at DMV is valid. If you run a service enterprise, the people encountering the “customers”have to be able to speak the predominant language. But if they speak the language servicably, but have an accent, that’s not a problem. I don’t care if everyone at the local Kim-chi parlor speaks Korean, I’ll work around it. If no one at the DMV speaks English, that’s a problem.
But beyond this, Americans are extraordinarily impervious to learning foreign languages and a lot of the comments I see seem to convey a sense of being threatened by the use of foreign languages in the United States. We will be a much stronger, more robust competitor in the world economy if we have vibrant foreign language-culture Americans who can go out in the world and handle diplomacy, politics, business in 100 languages. It’s hard enough for our young people to learn foreign languages in this country without a cultural bias against that. Let’s do everything we can to make sure that every child in America speaks a language other than English fluently and has a good command of a third language also.
Scout: If I am sounding “intolerant” it is not intentional. Accents don’t bother me. Many are quite beautiful actually. It’s the level where I can’t understand what they’re saying and they can’t respond to my questions is where I draw the line. I believe you are from Loudoun so maybe it’s not that bad there, but in Fairfax…ugh!
And for the record, my daughter’s boyfriend is 2nd generation Equadorian (spelling?). He speaks fluent spanish and perfect english and so do his parents (with slight accents), so I know it’s possible… it just takes putting forth the effort.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying at all. I’m simply fed up at the prevalence of the language barrier… and most don’t seem to care when they screw up an order at a restaurant or bungle an order placed in person or on the phone for a product or service. The DMV thing, for me, was just the end of my patience on the matter.
If I chose to work in foreign markets, I would take classes and learn the language(s). Likewise, if folks want to live here they should do the same. I took 2 years of Spanish in high school. I aced year 1, but failed year 2. Shouldn’t I have gotten a passing grade since it’s “so hard to learn a new language”? ESL should be the same way — pass or fail.
You say english speaking people should become bilingual (or even trilingual) and yet non-english speaking people should get a pass on learning english?
I agree we should endeavor to make sure all the legal immigrants (regardless of where they come from) learn our language sufficiently to function in our society. One way to do that is to require that only English be spoken in the schools during the school day. And any child that is not reasonably well versed in English should not be passed to the next grade until they are. Perhaps that sounds harsh, but it is effective and would encourage more effort to learn the language. My kids went to a private school that had numerous diplomat children. They were mostly asian, which as I understand is a more difficult transition to english, but it worked extremely well there.
And the government should stop facilitating those who can’t be bothered to even try and learn the language (they are out there you know) by publishing things in different languages. Clearly SOME materials should be available to new, legal immigrants as guidance on how to begin their journey to citizenship, or tourist materials of course, but not every little brochure and pamphlet. This would require newcomers to more quickly assimilate into the society that they wish to belong. Clearly these aren’t the 100% solutions, but I think it’s a good place to start.