And for the record, my daughter’s boyfriend is 2nd generation Equadorian (spelling?). He speaks fluent spanish and perfect english and so do his parents (with slight accents), so I know it’s possible… it just takes putting forth the effort.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying at all. I’m simply fed up at the prevalence of the language barrier… and most don’t seem to care when they screw up an order at a restaurant or bungle an order placed in person or on the phone for a product or service. The DMV thing, for me, was just the end of my patience on the matter.

If I chose to work in foreign markets, I would take classes and learn the language(s). Likewise, if folks want to live here they should do the same. I took 2 years of Spanish in high school. I aced year 1, but failed year 2. Shouldn’t I have gotten a passing grade since it’s “so hard to learn a new language”? ESL should be the same way — pass or fail.

You say english speaking people should become bilingual (or even trilingual) and yet non-english speaking people should get a pass on learning english?

I agree we should endeavor to make sure all the legal immigrants (regardless of where they come from) learn our language sufficiently to function in our society. One way to do that is to require that only English be spoken in the schools during the school day. And any child that is not reasonably well versed in English should not be passed to the next grade until they are. Perhaps that sounds harsh, but it is effective and would encourage more effort to learn the language. My kids went to a private school that had numerous diplomat children. They were mostly asian, which as I understand is a more difficult transition to english, but it worked extremely well there.

And the government should stop facilitating those who can’t be bothered to even try and learn the language (they are out there you know) by publishing things in different languages. Clearly SOME materials should be available to new, legal immigrants as guidance on how to begin their journey to citizenship, or tourist materials of course, but not every little brochure and pamphlet. This would require newcomers to more quickly assimilate into the society that they wish to belong. Clearly these aren’t the 100% solutions, but I think it’s a good place to start.

People who immigrate here (legally or illegally) do learn English. Not overnight. Not in a year. But in a generation or two, just the way your ancestors and mine did.

Your point about service personnel at DMV is valid. If you run a service enterprise, the people encountering the “customers”have to be able to speak the predominant language. But if they speak the language servicably, but have an accent, that’s not a problem. I don’t care if everyone at the local Kim-chi parlor speaks Korean, I’ll work around it. If no one at the DMV speaks English, that’s a problem.

But beyond this, Americans are extraordinarily impervious to learning foreign languages and a lot of the comments I see seem to convey a sense of being threatened by the use of foreign languages in the United States. We will be a much stronger, more robust competitor in the world economy if we have vibrant foreign language-culture Americans who can go out in the world and handle diplomacy, politics, business in 100 languages. It’s hard enough for our young people to learn foreign languages in this country without a cultural bias against that. Let’s do everything we can to make sure that every child in America speaks a language other than English fluently and has a good command of a third language also.

The aggravation at being questioned about my citizenship and identification by someone who barely spoke intelligible english, was the point I was trying to make. I had a hard time understanding what they were telling me and they had a difficult time understanding the questions I was asking them.

Putting this into perspective, if someone doesn’t read, speak or understand the language well enough to communicate, how can they be expected to understand a road sign like “do not enter”, “one way street” etc.? Take it one step further, how many may now be claiming they are defaulting on their mortgage loan because they didn’t understand what they were being told or what they were signing.

It’s one thing if someone is visiting a foreign country, it’s completely different if their intent is to live and work there there permanently. All I’m saying is if our country is so great that people flock here — legally AND illegally– then the least they can do is learn the language. They can speak whatever language they want in the privacy of their own home, but if they have a job with public contact, for crying out loud, learn the language!!

Anonymous 5:12 - My original birth certificate was far older than one of your kids’. Mine was from 44 years ago and had my footprints, my mother fingerprints and official seal of the hospital and stamp from the state. I have used it before and never had a problem. Now it is no longer acceptable thus I had to obtain a new “original” from the state. Same thing with my 20 year old marriage license. Not to mention I didn’t have a parent there to vouch for me. (smile) And this was at the Chantilly office.

On a side note, I really panicked when I went to obtain my new “original” birth certificate and they asked me for my….(drum roll please)… drivers license!! Not having a valid one, I was turned away. Now here’s the scary part. I got my new original by going on-line, completing a multiple choice questionaire and using a credit card to pay the fee. Glad it worked, but way too easy if you ask me.

Gidget: I’m very glad your views about language haven’t caught hold anywhere in the world. I’ve driven in around 20 foreign countries, and only in three of them (France, Germany and Spain) do I understand the language (well, in the UK, I have a sense of what they’re saying). But I wouldn’t be very happy if there were a rule that you had to be fluent in a language to drive there. It very rarely makes a difference if you know the road signs and their symbology.

Seriously, it must be another one of those location issues. The hard time I got was crossing between Glacier National Park and Waterton National Park in Montana and Alberta. It was a very rural crossing, we were the only ones there, and the agent had time to mess with us and editorialize for about 15 minutes. He was the only one there and I can assure you I did nothing other than exist to piss him off.

As for your crossing with an hangover, I guess that is just another law that isn’t enforced.

“Prior to the new passport debacle, a valid Virginia drivers license and voter registration card were not acceptable to gain re-entry into the United States from Canada” - Sorry ’bout your bad luck as well, what did you do to piss off customs. I went back and forth this summer with only a driver’s license and a hangover.

What’s most troubling is that I keep finding myself in agreement with NOVAScout (it’s starting to give me night chills). Greg, where do you draw the line on picking up the tab for Federal responsibilities. Should we fund a unit to inspect foreign meat products imported into PWC for BSE (mad cow disease) and hold it for USDA. Should we fund another unit to test imported toys for lead and then report violators to the CPSC. Given the miserable performance of the FDA in recent years, maybe the county should take over the testing of pharmaceuticals and medical devices, that should only cost a couple of hundred million in start-up costs.

The bottom line is that funding things like 287g aren’t as simple as you make them out to be and there are a lot of attendant fiscal and service costs to the program that seem to get considerable short shrift here. More to the point, how will fund those costs and if you fund them do you have to fund other programs to make up for other shortcomings by Feds state, regional or local authorities, failures such as our current transportation infrastructure. Don’t get me wrong, with some changes to the tax structure we could probably afford to do all of this but if I wanted a preponderance of my paycheck to be deducted for taxes, I would have moved to Canada, at least the fishing is better there. Unless you’re willing to do that (and by that I mean all of you and you will have to convince the rest of us while you’re at it) before you start screaming for funding for a progam whose true cost is both unknown and principally a Federal obligation we’ve already paid for, GET THE F*** in line, those of us with long standing issues whose funding has been deferred or ignored are ahead of you in line and we are no more patient than you are.

Mom

I had to produce my birth certificate and a marriage license, nothing else. People around me who were not native speakers were being denied left and right. The entire process was a huge pain in the butt. I did find out that DMV does not keep records for very long. Perhaps this needs to be improved since I had originally gotten my first license years ago, in Virginia, under my maiden name. No such record of that fateful day existed.

There are several issues being checked I surmised. Citizenship as well as state residency were being established. My expired license was used to establish my Virginia residency. I never had to produce mortgage records or utility bills. I would like to have the option of having a citizenship card. Those who don’t like that idea could continue jumping through hoops. One day of it was enough for me.

Considering that VA DMV no longer accepts original documents (I had to request and pay for “new” certified originals from various jurisdictions) and it took me — someone born and raised in the U.S. — 5 weeks and $350 worth of new documents to prove I was a legal citizen and was who I said I was. Shouldn’t everyone have to provide the same?

Adding insult to injury is that each time I attempted to renew my license, the person behind the counter telling me I didn’t have sufficient documents was speaking in almost unintelligible, broken English. It was infuriating to say the least.

Furthermore, during each and every attempt at the DMV I personally witnessed several people, most of whom barely spoke any English, acquire drivers licenses and/or walker’s ID with nothing more than a passport.

We should also stop making the driving test available in any other language than English. Those who do not speak or read the English language cannot possibly understand traffic signs and signals and thus the numerous bad/dangerous drivers on the roads. Futhermore, if they do not understand what they are reading and/or signing, they probably don’t understand the insurance requirements either, thus the numerous uninsured drivers on the roads.

Giving anyone who hasn’t been put thru the ringer like I was a drivers license is a bad idea and does, in effect, provide them with a sort of amnesty.

I agree that there shouldn’t be one illegal immigrant in the country, but my idea about how to deal with this most effectively and yours are worlds apart. I see this as a federal issue. Now that there are millions of illegal immigrants in the country, my approach concentrates on how to intelligently address the problems that people here complain about. After looking at this over the past few months, my sense of the best policy is to make sure that existing local laws are obeyed. That was where this thread started.

In effect, a driver’s license really establishes legal presence for the most part. There are few (if any) current instances where a driver’s license would not be accepted as government-approved establishment of identity, and as such would allow someone to do such things as open a bank account. Granting driver’s licenses to those who do not have legal presence (something not currently permitted under Virginia law) sanctions the unlawful presence of illegal aliens.

The better idea is to discourage their unlawful presence, rather than making that unlawful presence more comfortable, or accepted.

4 men arrested in headless body case

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7112476

Huh??? That is the most ridiculous statement ever! NY is nothing but a sanctuary city and the mayor needs to be prosecuted! All the individuals that received those licenses now need to be tracked down and deported! That is sensible!

Illegal aliens are perfectly capable of driving using the driver’s licenses of their home countries, or with international driver’s licenses. If they happen to break the law by staying longer than they should, the last thing we should consider is granting them an amnesty by allowing them to obtain driver’s licenses that they should not legally be allowed to have. Unlawful presence should have penalties, not be rewarded with this outrageous free pass.

And you better believe that VA will be required to honor those NYS driver’s licenses under the constitution, as long as the state doesn’t have proof that the person has been in Virginia more than 90 days. If you think illegal aliens aren’t going to falsely claim that they just got here last week when they’re questioned by law enforcement officials, you’re living in a fantasyland. How many of these people falsely claim to be related to a homeowner or renter in order to evade residential overcrowding controls already!

When Connolly starts making more substantive comments about 287(g) than “I’m considering it” during an election year, I’ll start paying attention. Right now I can’t see this as anything other than BS. When is it scheduled for a public debate, a hearing, or for a vote? That’s right, it’s not! Connolly will have this “under consideration” until he leaves office, or until citizens legitimately beat him up so much on this that he cannot afford to continue stonewalling.

As for licenses, I moved to VA fr another state; lived in a furnished apartment waiting for the house to be ready, so didn’t have a firm address. 2-3 weeks later I was stopped early on a Sunday morning, I don’t know why, and told in no uncertain terms to get my VA license and registraton pronto. I told the officer abt my situation, and he got hot under the collar asking whether I was questioning a police officer’s action. No objection fr me! That was my introduction to Fairfax PD, so I guess they are doing their duty