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This Might Be Called A Consensus

By Greg L | 29 September 2007 | National Politics, Illegal Aliens | 110 Comments

PBS, not known for being a bastion of conservative thought on many issues, has an interesting poll on it’s website asking visitors what they think we should do about the illegal alien problem. There’s a host of different policy options that users can select from, from giving amnesty to all illegal aliens, a guest worker program, and so on. There’s also an option for “prosecute and deport all illegal aliens”. With about 82,000 votes cast so far, what would you think that visitors to the PBS website would pick? Maybe amnesty?

Nope. “Prosecute and deport all illegal aliens” is the pick of 94% of the respondents. Here’s how it sorts out:

IMMIGRATION

What would you most like to see in a new immigration policy?

A guest worker program : 0%
Giving priority to immigrants based on their education and job skills : 0%
Giving priority to immigrants who have family in the country : 0%
Increasing fines on companies that hire illegal immigrants : 0%
Increasing border patrol and putting up a fence on the U.S.-Mexico border : 0%
Prosecute and deport all illegal immigrants : 94%
Provide amnesty to all illegal immigrants currently in the U.S. : 2%
There doesn’t need to be a new immigration policy; the existing policy should be enforced : 1%
Total votes: 81749

I knew this was a popular position on this issue, but I had no idea it was this popular.



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110 Comments

  1. Patty said on 29 Sep 2007 at 5:35 pm:
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    Anyone who has any sense of right and wrong would understand that rewarding bad behavior is just plain wrong. So the results do not surprise me. Anyone who commits a crime should not be rewarded for commiting it. It’s that simple!

  2. Anonymous said on 29 Sep 2007 at 6:05 pm:
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    And everyone knows that internet polls are impossible to skew by a few overzealous script kiddies.

  3. freedom said on 29 Sep 2007 at 6:12 pm:
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    Yet, our Federal Govt just doesn’t seem to get the message….:( …and I’m not really sure that any of the candidates do either…at least, none of the top contenders. With the NAU, the Nafta superhighway, and the Democrat penchant for socialism, I just don’t know.

    Why do we call it the Democrat party instead of the American Socialist party anyway? :(

  4. The Patriot said on 29 Sep 2007 at 6:48 pm:
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    This poll is consistent with ALL the other polls (from a variety of different sources) I have ever seen on the subject.

  5. Anonymous said on 29 Sep 2007 at 7:02 pm:
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    Oh really? Let’s see some links to other polls that show a full 94% of people calling for the deportation of all illegal aliens then. I’ve never seen any legitimate poll where 94% of the people agreed on anything.

    But I’ll admit at least - I would expect the majority of people to choose the deportation option - just not 94% of people.

  6. josh said on 29 Sep 2007 at 7:34 pm:
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    the poll was not scientific, it so states. However I would expect a margin of error +/- 10 percent or so.

    94 percent does seem a bit high, but out of 82000 votes it would be pretty telling. In other polls i’ve seen with similar options, the deportation option was the most chosen.

    I think it really says something when the larger portion of the population wants to get rid of illegal immigrants. When you take the personal feelings out of the equation that’s really the common sense thing for us to do in my opinion. This has all been debated here of course.

    Josh

  7. Krutis said on 29 Sep 2007 at 8:10 pm:
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    Just looked at the poll. Sheeez, if you can get enough people to go back again and again and vote the same way, you can get definitely skew to result. With all those zeros you know that something is off, for sure.

  8. One Voice said on 29 Sep 2007 at 8:14 pm:
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    Good report. We don’t all have to agree on everything to eliminate this problem. There are lots of people that want change that might be helpful to groups like this if you’d let them.

  9. Robert Hume said on 29 Sep 2007 at 8:34 pm:
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    Everyone should go to the Hudson Institute’s web page and prepare to spend an hour or so listening to the debate on immigration which took place on the 26th.

    The best panel is the first one with Skerry, Fonte, Rector, and Camarota; it is packed with facts, many of them little known.

    Here’s the URL;

    http://www.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=hudson_upcoming_events&id=437

  10. Robert Hume said on 29 Sep 2007 at 8:36 pm:
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    BTW: the audio download from the Hudson Institute is pretty slow, you have to wait several minutes before it is ready to play. The data bar moves slowly from left to right. I guess their server is pretty underpowered.

  11. Anon said on 29 Sep 2007 at 9:31 pm:
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    Very poor poll. Since there is no IP restricted voting anyone can run up the numbers. I just voted over 200 times in about 3 minutes.

  12. The Patriot said on 29 Sep 2007 at 9:50 pm:
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    I think the poll represents people around the country finally getting educated on the illegal immigration issue and saying enough is enough! You illegal alien supporters can say all the nonsense you want, but the fact is, we are tired of the impact that it has on our communities and are taking action to get it resolved (regardless of all your whining about how complicated it is, etc.).

  13. Krutis said on 29 Sep 2007 at 10:07 pm:
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    TP - Does your vacaton end this weekend?

  14. Anonymous said on 29 Sep 2007 at 10:08 pm:
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    Krutis said on 29 Sep 2007 at 8:10 pm:

    …..and you know the democratic party stance…….vote and vote often!

  15. Krutis said on 29 Sep 2007 at 10:08 pm:
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    vacation, sorry

  16. Krutis said on 29 Sep 2007 at 10:10 pm:
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    Anonymous - I said no such thing! Basta!

  17. Claire Gastanaga said on 29 Sep 2007 at 10:15 pm:
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    If you don’t present people with the option that they most often support … provide a path to citizenship that involves paying fines, paying back taxes and learning English, you’re likely to get a skewed result … since everyone understands that isn’t “amnesty” which no one wants.

    This isn’t a “poll”, i.e., a scientifically defined sample, nor do we know if it is set up to allow one vote per internet address … if not, this could be one person voting 82,000 times.

    If you’re interested in reading about lots of scientific polls taken over time by different reputable polling organizations, go to Polling Report, www.pollingreport.com.

    There you’ll find lots of interesting information about what people have said they believe about various immigration policies.

    The picture painted is more complex … certainly shows that the issue is important to a majority of Americans (not a surprise), but suggests that the public’s views are more nuanced and complicated than either Greg L or the PBS online survey suggest.

  18. Legal2 said on 29 Sep 2007 at 11:48 pm:
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    “provide a path to citizenship” = amnesty.
    DEFEATED by the American Citizens and Congress, June 2007. Dream Act, DEFEATED by the American Citizens and Congress, September 2007.

    Socialists love incrementalism - it’s worked so well in the past. But, as they say, “it’s history”.

    NO to paths to citizenship.
    NO to backdoor citizenship.
    NO to special privileges for law breaker/border crossers.

  19. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 12:28 am:
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    I have to go be like you guys and vote over and over. I think NPR is racist…if the question had been in Spanish, the true native language of the Americas, there would have been a very different result!

  20. Greg L said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:15 am:
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    Oh, that’s really going to win over a lot of people’s minds here!

    Now we have to give up English in the United States because Spanish is “the true native language of the Americas”? Not only is that utterly goofy, but it’s factually wrong. Unless the Native American tribes happened to speak Spanish before the conquistadors showed up to kill and enslave the Aztecs and other native tribes, Spanish has no more legitimacy as a “native language” in the Americas than English or French.

    There is no one native language of the Americas. You need to go back and re-read your history books.

  21. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:33 am:
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    Por favor, los conquistadores. When the proud Aztec and Mayan peoples (and others) were defeated by the treachery of the white man, we adopted Spanish as a unifying language. I do think that putting polls like this in both languages would get a more accurate reflection of society since so many are undocumented.

  22. Greg L said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:39 am:
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    Thanks for clarifying that if illegal aliens were participating in this poll, they might shift the results of a survey population with over 100,000 votes.

    That’s one heck of a lot of illegal aliens with computer access. Thanks for proving a point.

  23. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:56 am:
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    Hey, we do it all and we organize. When you all “organize,” it becomes a racist free for all. We DO use computers though and keep up with family, etc. We are UNDOCUMENTED, Greg, and unrecorded in this poll–94% is ridiculous. I would say that the opposite is true–94% of the population realizes that YOU NEED US….. Necesitas todos los mexicanos! Without us, your economy crumbles.

  24. Line Breaker said on 30 Sep 2007 at 7:05 am:
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    I want a new job - catching the illegals with forged docs. Does ICE need any help?

  25. RACK said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:04 am:
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    UnMasMexican - illegal aliens are not a race of people - so effecting laws to combat the illegal alien presence in OUR COUNTRY is not racist - those laws merely reaffirm existing federal laws. An illegal alien is a person who has entered our country without the permission of the U.S. government - a person who by his/her very existence in this country is violating the law. We do not NEED or WANT any illegal aliens in our country - irregardless of the color of his/her skin - and irregardless of his/her religion. OUR COUNTRY has the right to determine who enters - and anyone who immigrates here with the permission of our government is welcome.

  26. FactsNotFiction said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:11 am:
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    And now for a real poll (NBC News/Wall Street Journal):

    “Regardless of how you feel about it personally, do you think that deporting all illegal immigrants who are currently in the United States back to their native countries is a realistic and achievable goal, or not?”

    Is Is Not Unsure
    13% 85% 2%

  27. Legal2 said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:35 am:
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    Yeah, that’s a great poll. After these news outlets hammer home that it’s a federal problem (don’t try to fix it locally), that it’s too big of a problem (it’s useless so don’t even try), then they quiz their audience. This simply shows that their viewers are learning what they’re being fed (by mainstream media who by and large are illegal sympathizers). What’s the surprise?

  28. BL said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:41 am:
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    Deporting 20 million is unrealistic but making 20 millions want to leave is more not. Cut off the welfare that they love and the jobs and most will deport their selves. All that is really necessary is enforce our Constitution Article IV Section IV against invasion and enforce our Immigration laws and the majority of the Criminals will leave!

  29. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:01 am:
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    Fact…get your “facts” straight….most on here support attrition (no jobs, no benefits, and self-deportation as a result).

    UnMas…you obviously need to study up on your own history (I guess you skipped class when they covered that lesson???).

  30. Anonymous said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:27 am:
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    Patriot–I made all my class….dont hate on me, no cuando te amo….haha…and those classes–paid for with your tax dollars, thank you. And mine although I admit my parents did not pay taxes….mi historia es muy bien, gracias….very good…

  31. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:30 am:
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    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-26-moving_N.htm?csp=34
    You better watch out anon if you are illegal!

  32. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:32 am:
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    As far as your “studies” are concerned anon…I guess you might have been present, but you weren’t actually learning anything!

  33. Anonymous said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:33 am:
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    Check this out: GREAT political cartoon on illegal immigration: http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/hsc3602l.jpg

  34. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:34 am:
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    anon…you just proved my point in not learning your history!

  35. Anonymous said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:36 am:
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    Not funny. Here’s a better cartoon showing what illegal immigration is REALLY all about….

    http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/cole.jpg

  36. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:39 am:
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    Anon…I guess you better take a look at National Council of La Raza, Mecha, Mexica Movement, etc….boy do you have a lot to learn!

  37. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:42 am:
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    Anon…can you explain the statement “for those of the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing”? The mayor of LA made this statement according to a video I saw when he was the President of Mecha. I am really interested in your opinion on this.

  38. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:48 am:
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    http://www.hispanicvista.com/hvc/Columnist/jschmal/013105jschmal.htm
    Anon…since you skipped class!

  39. anon (not that guy) said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:58 am:
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    Patriot: while I respect your views, is this really the forum to have a historical debate? These people are here NOW–let’s worry about the present!

  40. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:05 am:
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    Actually (anon..not that guy)….I am rebutting the nonsense that these posters are putting out there that cause people to get “distracted” from the present problem.

  41. anon (that guy) said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:19 am:
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    I just wanted to close this argument by saying thank you Patriot for my public school education where i DID attend classes, due to the wise contributions you make via taxes. You should know your money was well-spent. I will someday send my child to public schools here as well–my girlfriend is pregnant and we thought having a child as an American citizen was a smart thing to do with today’s social attitudes and all. What better way to be an American than to have one?

  42. Anonymous said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:22 am:
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    UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 12:28 am:

    HUH? I guess everyone in the “Americas” was speaking Spanish even before the Spanish came to the “new world.”

    Another revision of history!!!!!!!

  43. Tilan said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:30 am:
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    anon (that guy) - Smart move!!!! LOL

  44. LiberalsSeeTruth said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:32 am:
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    UnMasMexican was stressing that Spanish is the chosen language of the Americas. And has been for some time. We should worry less about petty language differences and embrace our commonality. We have so much in common with our southern brothers. Perhaps if we had some nationwide campaign to learn Spanish and latino culture we could better appreciate these heroic individuals and resort less to the blatant racism I see on blogs like this.

  45. Anonymous said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:35 am:
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    The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:30 am:

    Another batch of “latino owned” houses put on the market this weekend in Westgate. “SEE HOW THEY RUN!”

  46. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:48 am:
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    Anon, where was that quote from? You cited The Patriot “said”, however, I have no such quote???

  47. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:49 am:
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    If it is from the “article” I posted….why don’t you say it is from the article?

  48. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:50 am:
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    Anon…I guess you don’t know how to quote things correctly? Product of your schooling I guess?

  49. LiberalsSeeTruth said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:51 am:
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    Patriot: whoever posted this should state it is from something you posted or linked to. It is, however, clearly indicative of the racist thought you espouse.

  50. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:53 am:
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    Nice try liberal! Typical…making something out of the “air” as always.

  51. LiberalsSeeTruth said on 30 Sep 2007 at 11:56 am:
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    making something out of the “air”? You all found a GROUP based on it that does nothing but divide communities and garner national attention and news stories that do little but reveal you as the racist clan you are.

  52. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 12:01 pm:
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    Your argument makes absolutely no sense and holds no merit…why?….because we have people of ALL races supporting our side!

  53. LiberalsSeeTruth said on 30 Sep 2007 at 12:31 pm:
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    Patriot: let’s see a group picture.

  54. Bridget said on 30 Sep 2007 at 12:37 pm:
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    “Without us, your economy crumbles.”

    Yah. And to think of all the many decades the U.S. has spent as a floundering third-world banana republic.

    Shoot, prior to 1965 we spent most of our daylight hours doing little more than digging for grubs.

    Prior to having 20 million swarm our border to “rescue” us, we had nothing.

    No electricity, sciences, arts, technology, modern medicine, trains, planes, automobiles, roads, bridges, buildings, stock market, agriculture, banks, school systems… the list goes on of the numerous historic contributions brought to the U.S. by the generous and ever innovative mezzo culture.

    You be sure to let us know when you get that collaborative Aztec/Mayan space program up and running … from scratch.

    Get real, Mexican. The cold, hard, truth is that without you, not only will we not crumble, but we would be better off without the burden. It is not we who are afraid of your departure, but your fear of having to go home. We know why you are here; because Mexico is a mess. You are not here to rescue us but to be rescued. You claim to be the glue that holds our economy together, the “workforce” of our nation, yet always flip out when the prospect of not having tax funded benefits and subsidies comes up.

    If my household is a mess, what good can come from running across the street demanding attention from my neighbors? I might get a hot meal and sympathy, perhaps a place to sleap but at some point I will wear out my welcome, be told to stand tall … walk home and face the mess that is mine to clean up.

    In the end, there is nothing so pathetic as an imperious panhandler.

  55. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:30 pm:
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    Bridget: in response to not needing us, simply ask yourself: how would real estate have developed in the last 15 years in NoVA w/o us?

    If you believe our WANTED and NEEDED labor is a detriment, why then does your Republican Party even want to grant us amnesty? B/c they realize they DO need us.

    We come here seeking opportunity and jobs that DO exist precisely b/c you need the labor and, yes, we do need the jobs.

    You’re welcome. De nada.

  56. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:48 pm:
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    http://www.claremont.org/projects/pageid.2066/default.asp
    UnMas….why don’t you read the following article to see how you fit in.
    “This is central to American identity because unlike many other nations, America does not base citizenship on race, religion or ethnicity. Instead, citizenship is based on political loyalty to our constitutional democracy. If we accept the principle that it is legitimate for foreign-born citizens (and their American-born children) to maintain political allegiance to the foreign states from which they came, we have accepted an ethnic conception of citizenship that mocks our core values. In the War of 1812 we refused to accept the ethnicity-based concept of citizenship implicit in “once an Englishman always an Englishman.” Today we should refuse to accept the ethnicity-based concept of “once a Mexican always a Mexican,” or once a Pakistani always a Pakistani, or any other ethnic designation upon which dual citizenship is based.”

  57. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:55 pm:
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    Ok, Patriot/Bigot: by coming here I CHOSE to be an American which makes me MORE of an American that you who is an American solely by fortune of birth.

    And if I say I am “Mexican,” I speak only of an ethnicity that moves with me beyond any artificial (and weakly enforced, haha) border!

    Do you care when people had Polish Festivals or Greek festivals? No, because you only dislike Hispanics. Well, dios mio, viva la raza en los estados unidos!

  58. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 1:58 pm:
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    UnMas, as far as your comments to bridgette are concerned:
    1. Our real estate would be just fine. Actually, the developers have overdeveloped and caused too much crowding. That wasn’t our choice. The developers did it!
    2. Both parties are pandering for votes (due to greed). Plain and simple. They were not listening to We the People. Now they will be voted out of office for that!
    3. The jobs will go away (once businesses that hire illegals get shut down). We are working on this right now!
    4. We (the people) don’t “need” you. Businesses that are hiring illegally “need” you. That should change too. We are working on shutting them down.

  59. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:00 pm:
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    Actually, none of these groups are demanding anything are they?

  60. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:02 pm:
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    UnMas…can you address the statement “for those of the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing”? The mayor of LA made this statement according to a video I saw when he was the President of Mecha. I am really interested in your opinion on this.

  61. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:08 pm:
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    Patriot: I noticed you do not deny your racism. Nor do you disagree that I am a true American!

    Like Bill O’Reilly tells his callers–I am a good American! Hahaha.

    I am unfamiliar w/ the context of the mayor’s comment or its validity. Do I aks you to defend every racist comment made by every caucasian ever???

  62. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:08 pm:
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    UnMas….http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=51812
    Listen to the interview (by pressing the play button) of Anna Gaines (a legal hispanic who is on our side). She is a true American. Maybe you will learn something from her.

  63. Greg L said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:08 pm:
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    UnMas: I’d be interested to hear how national borders are somehow “artificial”. They seem just a real to me as our national government which is sworn (supposedly) into enforcing their existence.

  64. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:10 pm:
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    UnMas…actually…..that tired old term you use has been rebutted by me with plenty of threads/sources. I guess you have trouble reading English right?

  65. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:14 pm:
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    Mi ingles es muy bien. MUY BIEN. How many languages do you have mastery of? I have four, hate mongerer.

    I, my friend, am a true American. 0l:)

    Anna Gaines sounds like a true Hispanic alright…she cannot relate to the issues facing many of us.

    I am proud of my Mexican heritage and proud of my status as an American. The day when there are no Canadian and Mexican borders will be a great day!

  66. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:20 pm:
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    Greg: all borders are artificial. They are determined by governments that come and pass. The U.S. government acts everyday to increase our involvement with the rest of the world, making our borders less and less significant.

  67. Anonymous said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:26 pm:
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    for una mess mexican:

    Think you have it wrong! It has been the Dumocratic party (led by Harry DUH Reid) that has been pushing for “comprehensive immigration” and thanks to the likes of Jeff Sessions from the Republican party and a few others of his stature it has and will continue to be defeated!

  68. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:27 pm:
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    Both parties are the same on our issues, don’t kid yourselves. bush gave us a plan b/c he needs business and the hispanic vote. there is a reason your efforts failed. BOTH parties realize this!

  69. Sals said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:50 pm:
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    UnMasMexican, it sounds like you spend too much time watching Univision, reading El Comercio and listening to Spanish radio stations. Just because someone says something doesn’t make it the truth. Where do they get the idea that Americans (even Republicans according to you) approve of an amnesty? They seem to think it was out of touch Senators rather than the will of the American people that buried the amnesty bill.

    It is true that illegals have contributed to the economy but they have also dragged down the quality of neighborhoods and schools in some areas. Does their contribution to an often underground economy outweigh police, medical and educational costs? Arrogant and inaccurate ‘in your face’ claims don’t help the illegal cause any.

    Earlier waves of immigrants, whether illegal or not did not have access to free medical care and social services provided by the government. In order to have a government to provide services we need people to abide by tax laws. Illegals for the most part do not. If the flow of illegals is not stopped, there won’t be enough people paying taxes to provide the services that are being demanded.

  70. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:58 pm:
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    Sals: Was Bush’s plan not amnesty? As long as they had not committed a crime (and the overwhelming majority of illegals have not), they would be on a path to citizenship.

    We do pay income taxes, and sales taxes, and gasoline taxes….that fund education….

    People were accusing Italians and Poles of ruining the education system also….maybe it was your grandfather…

    We are hardworking people who have only improved our new, chosen country….we do need more proud mexicans and salvadorans posting on blogs like this…I must talk to my friends on the spanish radio stations you mention and have them encourage their listeners to post–in both Spanish and English to foster a true dialogue!

    Viva la raza en los estados unidos!

  71. CJC said on 30 Sep 2007 at 2:58 pm:
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    Bridget,
    You put it so well,
    Thanks

  72. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 3:02 pm:
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    Viva la raza en los estados unidos traslates to
    the race in the United States lives.
    What does that mean?

  73. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 3:37 pm:
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    Find a better online translator….or do yourself a favor and become bilingual…you should, your kids will have to. :)

  74. AWCheney said on 30 Sep 2007 at 4:04 pm:
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    “They [borders] are determined by governments that come and pass.”

    Again your cultural background is showing, UnMasMexican. I’m quite sure that Mexico’s history of revolution and perpetually changing governments and Constitutions (if they bother to produce one) must be quite daunting, particularly in the study of your own history and social studies. Our nation, however, has suffered only ONE civil war in its history, with no change in government or Constitution…including the mandate to protect our BORDERS from foreign invasion. Our government does not “come and pass”…live with it, and learn by it.

  75. Anon#13 said on 30 Sep 2007 at 4:10 pm:
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    UnMas
    Donde esta? Los Estados Unidos!!! Verdad.Hablamos Ingles aqui.
    Los padres y madres de los anchor bebes, necesitan hablar Ingles!!
    Forgive my Spanish, my parents and neighborgh’s tax dollars paid for my Spanish classes over 20 years ago.That’s right, right here in Prince William County! Sorry, no Spanish markers, and I think you’ll understand exactly what I’m mean.
    English:
    Where are you? The United States! TRUE. We speak English here. The parents of the “anchor babies” need to speak English!!

  76. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 4:15 pm:
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    UnMasMexican,
    You must be speaking slang. I tried 3 different translations via the web.
    At least I TRIED, unlike people who do NOT try to learn English here in th USA.

  77. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 4:32 pm:
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    Most immigrants are attempting to learn English–look at PWC’s ESL classes. Language takes time, especially written language.

  78. Lafayette said on 30 Sep 2007 at 4:33 pm:
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    redawn,
    A for effort!!
    I think all persons coming to the U.S.A. should learn to read and write the basics of English to be productive citizens. All immigrants must come here legally. I never see signs in the stores, or hear push#_ for German, Chinese, French, Russian, etc. only English and Spanish. We teach the children in English, and all official business is conducted in English. Why such special treatment for the Spanish speaking?

  79. Greg L said on 30 Sep 2007 at 4:45 pm:
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    UnMasMexican is a perfect example of why we need to restore order in our immigration system. Here we’ve got someone who doesn’t understand the basic precept of sovereignty that a nation has the right to defend it’s borders, and desires that our culture will be supplanted by a foreign culture. These clearly un-American concepts are entirely inconsistent with an understanding of the fundamentals of our constitution and American history that legal immigrants are required to demonstrate in order to become citizens. Rather than strengthening our nation through orderly and rational legal immigration, this demonstrates the harm that comes when we allow anyone to come into the country without any regard to whether they’re bringing something good, or are merely radicals with the clear intent to destroy our culture and our constitution.

    Just imagine what twenty million people with such outrageous aims and intents would do to our nation. No wonder unconditional amnesty for illegal aliens is a cornerstone of their aims. With that, our constitution would be effectively meaningless in the significant portions of the country that these radicals would then be able to control.

    And I thought the book “Domestic Enemies” was a work of fiction. It’s looking more like political prophesy.

  80. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:21 pm:
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    Greg, trying to spread fears of Reconquista?

  81. Sals said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:26 pm:
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    UnMasMexicano, saying something doesn’t make it true… no matter how many times it’s repeated.

  82. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:32 pm:
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    Sals: is this true of your 20 million #?

  83. manassascityresident said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:35 pm:
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    Greg - AMEN!!!

    UnMasMexicano - you need a check-up from the neck up!

    What you want will NEVER happen - we, the legal citizens of this country WON’T LET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  84. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:35 pm:
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    Lafayette,
    “I never see signs in the stores, or hear push#_ for German, Chinese, French, Russian, etc. only English and Spanish. We teach the children in English, and all official business is conducted in English. Why such special treatment for the Spanish speaking?”

    People with inquiring minds DO WANT TO KNOW :)

  85. JM said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:36 pm:
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    UnMas,

    When my relatives came to this country, they moved into crappy neighborhoods because that was all they could afford, and made them nice.

    Three years ago I fled a formerly nice neighborhood that was “improved” by newcomers. The improvements? Overflowing garbage, thunderous subwoofers playing at all hours day and night, rats overrunning the entire place, furniture left outside to rot in the rain (also giving a home to the aforementioned rats), people urinating outside, broken windows, drug dealing, street racing, children wearing only diapers playing in the street with no adult in sight watching them, men leering and accosting me whenever I attempted to walk in my own neighborhood, petty thefts and break ins, overgrown and dying yards. And that’s just off the top of my head. Is THAT what you call improvement? Because those are the only changes which occurred when your people moved in.

    We have a 200 plus year history of building, educating and improving. We do not need you to “improve” things, because this is a better place than the one you came from. It is clear which country is capable of making things better.

  86. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:45 pm:
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    Lafayette,
    “I never see signs in the stores, or hear push#_ for German, Chinese, French, Russian, etc. only English and Spanish. We teach the children in English, and all official business is conducted in English. Why such special treatment for the Spanish speaking?”

    THIS IS JUST A RESULT OF THE NUMBERS–and the inevitable growing Spanish population. Please, guys, be careful how you treat minorities…we won’t be the minority forever.

    JM: I do not know where you speak of but I know of many wonderful integrated communities. When people will move past the mindsets that hurt immigrants decades ago and African-Americans in the South God only knows but you will all have to answer a greater power someday. Dios mio….

  87. Sals said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:46 pm:
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    UnMasMexican, my 20 million #? You’re having so much fun with your comments that you may have lost track here.

  88. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:51 pm:
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    “THIS IS JUST A RESULT OF THE NUMBERS–and the inevitable growing Spanish population. Please, guys, be careful how you treat minorities…we won’t be the minority forever.”

    Sounds pretty threating to me.What is your intention?

  89. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 5:53 pm:
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    Unmas….the interesting thing is the other groups that came here legally assimilated and didn’t demand anything. This is quite the contrary of those coming these days now isn’t it? What Greg said above is absolutely true. Unmas you don’t even know what being an American is. You have shown where your loyalties are based on your statements! Nice try with saying La Raza doesn’t mean “the race”. That’s funny! Your brethren in Mecha seem to have a good idea of what it means!

  90. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 6:04 pm:
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    “la raza” is a sense of community that goes beyond race….something people as fixated on care as you are would not understand, patriot.

    Stating that we will not be a minority is not a threat, redawn…we come here seeking peaceful lives and inclusion….the existence of boards like this where the narroq-minded feed off each other are the true threat….

    Just what is it you think hispanics are demanding? is education and health care really too much to ask since we are the in essence the slaves who build your pyramids?

  91. The Patriot said on 30 Sep 2007 at 6:06 pm:
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    unmas said….”“la raza” is a sense of community that goes beyond race….something people as fixated on care as you are would not understand, patriot.”

    Right! That Funny! Your brethen in Mecha said “for those of the race, everything; for those outside the race, nothing”. Is that inclusion?

  92. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 6:11 pm:
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    I am not threatened I want to know your intentions and it seemed to me that you are saying you see the spanish population not being the minority. What do you see being the minority?
    We do not have pyramids here in the US, sound to me like you are using slang again, please explain.

  93. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 6:53 pm:
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    No slang. It was analogous. Anyways. The white population is dwindling, that’s all I meant. No threats. Just a reminder to be kind. :)

  94. Legal2 said on 30 Sep 2007 at 6:55 pm:
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    unmas, go home and improve your native country. it is in dire need of such productive people as yourself and the millions who want to “help” us so much. btw, just because illegals are here doing construction, doesn’t mean it’s being done correctly. These new developments that go up very quickly have serious flaws in basic workmanship. I hear people investing in these properties all the time complaining about the sloppy construction.

    They also don’t seem to be learning anything from all the landscaping they claim to do. One latino guy nearby surrounded all his very tall trees with huge timbers, filled them in with dirt and within one year, they are all quite dead.

  95. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 6:59 pm:
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    UnMasMexican,

    I thought they may have been what you were trying to do, not just assuming a threat. I was giving you the benefit of doubt.
    I am kind and have been kind to you on the threads we have been back and forth on for awhile now. I treat others the way I want to be treated. I still wonder what your intentions are ( since you are all over the threads tonight) I am trying to find out what you feel should be done. There are people here that can communicate to be problem solving with out name calling,etc.

  96. UnMasMexican said on 30 Sep 2007 at 7:26 pm:
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    redawn: my intentions are simply to make some people on these boards realize there IS an alternative point of view and help them realize decent, hard-working people are being scape-goated for many of our nation’s problems.

  97. Dustin Arnold said on 30 Sep 2007 at 7:47 pm:
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    96% holding after 136,000 votes…..

    Bet these numbers never get published anywhere.

  98. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 7:49 pm:
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    UnMasMexican,
    I understand and that is POSITIVE! I just want to let you know, that I have been following you this evening to give you a message and that would be good intentions but it is how it is PRESENTED. ( just I left you tconstructive criticism, we ALL can use)http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/30/moran-kaine-and-warner-disturbing-ties-to-radical-islam/

  99. One Voice said on 30 Sep 2007 at 7:51 pm:
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    UnMasMexican

    When I first picked up on this blog last spring, I thought that this blog would be a good opportunity to pick up on some various opinions. I am not young enough to know everything already. In the early stages it was quite good. Facts were ferreted out, presented and discussed intelligently and the persistance of the group was amazing and very effective.

    Toward the end of July there was a shift - facts in some of the most vicious posts are scarce, responses are polarizing and the whole experience has become one giant frustration and no longer a valuable tool to capture the thoughts of the community.

    There are some very thoughtful people still around, you can tell they actually think about their response prior to firing off a comment; unfortunately they are becoming scarce….

  100. redawn said on 30 Sep 2007 at 7:58 pm:
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    correct to read: i left you a message under the thread

    http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/09/30/moran-kaine-and-warner-dist
    urbing-ties-to-radical-islam

    and that I am suggesting constructive criticism as we ALL can use. It works both ways.

    Thank you ONE VOICE, I see you are with GOOD will and have NOT given up. :)

  101. One Voice said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:06 pm:
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    Thank YOU, Reddawn, you are amoung the thoughtful thinkers. We need many more to not just start change but to implement fully. It’s the latter that takes the effort.

  102. Mr. Smith said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:08 pm:
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    People who gripe about PBS being liberal evidently don’t remember it as being the home of “Firing Line” with William F. Buckley, a man just to the right of Attila the Hun.

  103. Lafayette said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:37 pm:
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    UnMas,
    The numbers are on the rise due to the illegal invasion, and then getting pregnant with “anchor babies”, and keep popping out one kid after another. Are you an “anchor baby”? Also, the illegal parents that make these babies are more than welcome to take THEIR children back to their(parents) country of origin. The when the children are of an age to support themselve they are welcome back to this great nation. Come here legally!!

  104. Lafayette said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:39 pm:
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    corr
    THEN when the children are of an age to support THEMSELVES…

  105. One Voice said on 30 Sep 2007 at 8:53 pm:
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    Good point Mr. Smith –

    Aside from political shows -
    And how many folks enjoyed The WAR last week? Or, has WWI become liberal and I missed it? Or how about Inspector Lynly?

  106. dolph said on 30 Sep 2007 at 10:25 pm:
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    One Voice re: 7:51 polaring responses:

    I totally agree with you.

    Parts 5,6 7 of WWII are on tonight, Monday and Tuesday. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching it.

  107. Concerned said on 1 Oct 2007 at 9:44 am:
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    The nonsense that illegal alien apologists have been throwing out as history is ridiculous. The comment in this thread that Spanish is the true native language of the US is preposterous. The notion that Mexico has a historical right to reclaim “Aztlan” is equally nonsensical. This post is longer than usual but I want to clear up much of the politically-correct idiocy that has been used in support of the illegal alien agenda.

    The modern US states of California, Nevada, Utah, northern Arizona, western Colorado, and southwestern Wyoming were all part of what was known as Alta California. Alta California gained independence from Spain in 1821 as one of the consequences of the Mexican War of Independence, and Spain’s decision to disengage from North America. It came under Mexico’s control, just as the Philippines came under US control after the Spanish-American War in 1898. Another historical parallel is South Africa’s receiving a League of Nations mandate to control the former German colony of Namibia after World War I.

    Alta California was not, however, part of Mexico any more than the Philippines was part of the US or Namibia was part of South Africa. Both the US and South Africa eventually restored self-determination to those nations. Mexico’s occupation and control of Alta California in the 19th century were merely part of the crumbling of the Spanish Empire.

    The 1824 Mexican Constitution, developed after Mexican independence from Spain in 1821, claimed Alto California as one of Mexico’s territories. This was, however, merely an unrecognized claim on the part of the newly independent Mexican government, as were South African claims to Namibia that the international community demanded with increasing concern after World War II that South Africa renounce.

    Mexican occupation of Alta California was incompetent and harsh. During this same period that the United States was developing toward becoming a democratic, industrial economy with a strong middle class, feudal societies were developing around the “ranchos” in Alta California under Mexican rule. The social structure was similar to Medieval Europe where a wealthy, landed class was surrounded by impoverished peasants and serfs.

    The tyrannical rule of Manuel Victoria in Alta California spawned a revolt. The protestors secured his removal but sectional rivalries and political instability did not end. Another revolt broke out in 1844.

    The 1824 Mexican Constitution was a generally progressive document that created a bicameral legislature similar in many ways to the US Congress. Mexican President (dictator) Antonio López de Santa Anna rescinded that constitution and replaced it with the more centralized 1835 Constitution, which dissolved the federation of Mexican sovereign states, and consolidated power under his control in Mexico City. Santa Anna’s power grab precipitated the secession not only of Texas but also of the Mexican states of Yucatán, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, and Tamaulipas. Texans fought for their independence (Remember the Alamo!) against Santa Anna’s increasingly tyrannical rule.

    Mexico was falling apart at the seams because of its own failure to liberalize its economy and build on the democratic government that its 1824 constitution envisioned. Mexico faced revolts both domestically and in Alta California because of its dictatorial governance and economic incompetence.

    In 1845, Texas was admitted as a US state with the overwhelming popular support of its citizens. Except for slaves, all Texans, including Anglos and Hispanics, became US citizens. Under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo signed by Mexico and the US after the Mexican-American war in 1848, Alta California became part of the US. All residents became US citizens, including Mexicans who chose to continue living there, and retained all of their property rights. Alta California, which had gained its own independence in 1821, but was claimed and occupied by Mexico, thus joined the United States.

    Mexico’s economy and society today reflect the long-term impacts of its history of harsh rule, corruption and economic mismanagement. It has no middle class, but only an incredibly wealthy, tiny elite living in the midst of widespread poverty. The richest man in the world, according to “Forbes” magazine, is Mexican Carlos Slim, worth an estimated $67.8 billion in a nation where over half of the population lives on less than $5 per day. This is a direct result of Mexico’s failure over history to create institutions that support property rights, economic opportunity for all, and a democratic society. Had Alta California and Texas not been able to break off from Mexico when they did, their societies and economies today would almost inevitably reflect the current socio-economic mess in Mexico rather than the stable, democratic, prosperous economy of the US.

    The answer to Mexico’s problems today is not to export them by encouraging its people to leave and enter the US illegally. Mexico has vast natural resources (i.e., oil), a rich history and hard-working, talented, ambitious people. Mexico needs reform at home to take advantage of these assets but is hindered by the power of its wealthy elite, and increasingly by the malign influence of globalization. It must resolve those issues. The US can not intervene and do so for them. Just as the US has overcome major flaws such as slavery and Jim Crow, Mexico must act in the best interests of all of its citizens.

    Many Mexicans assert now that the territory of the former Alta California, which they label “Aztlan,” is subject to their plans for “reconquista.” In effect, they aim to “reconquer” something that Mexico asserted a spurious claim on for about 27 years, administered tyrannically and incompetently, and was in fact never theirs. Making such claims and stirring up emotions will not address the nation’s true problems.

  108. Barbara Cummings said on 1 Oct 2007 at 11:58 am:
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    Thank you, Concerned. I’d like to give this to the supervisors tomorrow if you have no objection.

  109. Concerned said on 1 Oct 2007 at 12:21 pm:
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    Barbara:

    Share this with anyone you want. I spent a lot of time researching and working on it in an effort to dispel the politically-correct myths that are interfering with our ability to find fair, workable solutions to our immigration problems.

  110. monticup said on 1 Oct 2007 at 12:59 pm:
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    Concerned: Thank you for the reality check. I suspect the Mexican government feeds their uneducated masses myths about “Atzlan” to encourage them to come to the US illegally with their sense of entitlement. This leads to money sent home and enables the elites so they can continue to ignore their indigenous peoples.

    The corrupt governements of Mexico and Central America are dumping their social problems on the American taxpayer. A few years ago there were riots in Chiapas, Mexico. Peasants were demanding rights. They seem to be quiet now–I wonder if they are now residing in the US?

    The US can only absorb so much. We have long passed our “tipping point”.

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