The Inanity Of The Washington Post
By Greg L | 8 October 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 138 Comments
The Washington Post has apparently decided to ratchet up it’s war against the ongoing efforts to reduce the number of illegal aliens in Prince William County, and the backlash is pretty strong today. First up is Gary Jacobsen’s letter to the editor where he admits to violating 8 USC 1324a by knowingly hiring illegal aliens and is inviting enforcement actions against him. It’s the subject of this morning’s Chris Core show on WMAL, and Chris Core and his callers are outraged. Second is the Washington Post’s editorial “The Price Of Intolerance” which incongruously claims that spending less money on social services that would otherwise go to illegal aliens is somehow going to cost county taxpayers more than they can afford.
Gary Jacobsen walked Washington Post readers through his experience of hiring day laborers after finding out that legitimate home improvement contractors would cost more than he wanted to pay. Although Mr. Jacobsen never says he intentionally went out to hire illegal aliens, they overwhelmingly are the folks who hang out at the open-air toilet and informal day laborer center at Prince William Parkway and Route One. “Reckless disregard” of a persons unlawful immigration status is what makes such behavior illegal, and it’s pretty clear to me this at least describes Mr. Jacobsen’s behavior. At the end of the program, Gary Jacobsen threatened Chris Core with a lawsuit for pointing out that his behavior is almost certainly illegal, so perhaps the public reaction to his outrageous letter is giving some in the open borders crowd pause. Flaunting unlawful behavior is pretty stupid. Maybe they’re finally getting that message.
Why would people care about this? The impacts we experience locally as a result of the behavior of folks like Mr. Jacobsen are tremendous. Legitimate businesses are going out of business because they cannot afford to compete with those who break the rules, while they are shouldering the burdens of insurance, taxes and regulatory requirements that illegals evade. Illegal alien day laborer centers act as a magnet for illegal aliens, drawing more to come and overcrowd residences, our schools, hospital emergency rooms and public services. While Mr. Jacobsen gets to save a few bucks while he breaks the law, the rest of us end up paying the costs that he has evaded, which according to the Heritage Foundation is $20,000 per illegal alien household, per year.
Which brings us to the Washington Post’s silly editorial.
If they do [pass further restrictions on illegal aliens], they will fan the flames of xenophobia in Prince William, squander the time and energy of police officers and other agencies’ employees, and, we now know, burden county taxpayers with millions of dollars in spending that will achieve very little.
The last time I checked, having police officers enforce the law was the explicit purpose we have police officers. If we can reduce the number of illegal aliens in the area even by half, we will have earned a return on our $2.5 million dollar annual investment in law enforcement of somewhere in the area of $25 and $75 million a year, and restored the viability of thousands of local small businesses who actually do pay taxes, carry insurance, and perform professional quality work. This “ostrich caucus” is determined to destroy our communities, and we cannot allow them to do so.
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138 Comments
Views: 1825
Reduced illegal aliens and their families equals:
1. Less taxpayer money going to benefits given to them (cost savings).
2. Increase in quality of life (no more bunk houses, less trash in the bunk house areas, ER room getting back to normal, etc.).
3. Preserve our American melting pot culture from being overriden.
The Patriot
If I may add…
4. Less overcrowding in our schools, and good qualified teachers NOT being replaced with ESOL teachers, and less free breakfrast and lunches.
I hope you don’t mind. Now, how about those Supervisors? I left an update on responses.
Can someone explain just how they do not pay taxes. I understand the whole day labor thing but if you buy a house and have a W-2 you pay taxes. I spoke with one person who I know is illegal and he said he pays taxes and does not file an income tax return meaning he is paying more. If they are willing to work for peanuts I would think they would have to share the cost of living by grouping up.
Gary Jacobsen wrote a letter to the editor a while back in the MJM stating the same thing and encouraging others to do the same. He went so far as to ask that we buy them lunch while they were illegally working around our houses.
Anonymous on 8 Oct 2007 at 11:25 am:
What is it you don’t understand about illegals being paid cash and no taxes being withheld? That is how the idiots that are hiring them cut their costs. They do not withold federal taxes, state taxes or social security taxes. The illegals that are buying houses are doing so with no money down, no interest loans, load up the houses with more illegals and charge them “rent” and then don’t pay the mortgage. After a couple of months of not paying their “mortgage” they get an evection notice. It then takes 3 or 4 months to get them out. They then remove all the light fixtures and appliances, move out in the middle of the night and then do the same thing over again (at the taxpayers and citizens expense.) That is the problem with you people. You could care less what is going on around you and when you do find out, your respons is…. Gee, I didn’t know that was going on. GET A LIFE! GET INVOLVED!
Anonymous, Illegal aliens do pay various taxes. All pay sales taxes, obviously. A majority pay into the SS system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html
That is why the no-match letter plan is a strategy for the DHS.
So it doesn’t surprise me what you say about house taxes.
Patriot, Lafayette
Can I add:
5. No more decline in property values. Houses not trashed.
6. Less theft
7. Less murder and rape
8. No more hazardous chemical dumping.
9. No more out of state tags on cars.
10. Less burden on our infrastructure.
11. No more public urination.
12. Less hit an runs. Less vehicles driving without insurance.
Here is how they also avoid taxes:
By living in a “bunk house” designed to be a “single” family home they avoid taxes that those of us who live by these rules pay. For instance, if there are “multiple families” in the single family home…there is only one set of taxes being paid. If those multiple families played by the rules and each had their own house and were taxed as such….then they would be paying their fair share of taxes. So lets say the following:
Example:
Family A (single family) living in a single family home owes say $3000.00 per year for taxes.
Family B, C, D (multiple families) living in a single family home owes say $3000.00 per year for taxes (for the one house they all live in). [If they were playing by the rules, they would be paying $9000.00 had they been living separately in their own individual houses].
Leila,
It’s obvious that your brain is asleep. Illegal aliens do NOT pay income taxes. If they do(?) they’ve stolen an id to do it and then they put down enormous amount of exemptions so they don’t pay any taxes.
Guess what? My daughter pays sales tax. Also, if you bunk up as many in a house as can be squeezed into it then the “homeowner” (really a house trasher) for example only pays a penny on the dollar when we are paying about ten times as much.
PWC has experienced an ecomonic decline due to illegal aliens and their lapping up the sub prime loans. By the signs I’ve seen in my neighborhood some of these sub prime loan sharks are still in business. The illegal alien doesn’t care to pay their loan because there are NO repurcussions. They don’t have a credit history, so they get another loan and go to another neighborhood to terrorize it.
Fight back PWC residents. Let’s take back our neighborhoods. Call your supervisors and let them know we want them to fully fund the resolution.
According to this crime rates have dropped in Prince William???
http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/005943.pdf
Patty, I didn’t claim anything about income taxes or housing, Anonymous did. I mentioned SS taxes (payroll). The NYT article I cited says they subsize the SS Administration by billions and has a chart from the SSA as well as comments from officials. That is why the DHS no-match letter program, should it be put into place, may work against employers.
If you apparently know better than SS officials and DHS, then I await your own government-certified statistics.
“repurcussion” should be repercussion
Here is the message that I think we should send to the BOCS:
In order to get our vote for re-election the resolution must be funded. It does not matter if someone votes for funding of the resolution (if it does not get funded). This will prevent gaming of supervisors. They must ALL work together on getting this passed since it is the most important issue we face. If they cannot (as a group) get this passed, none of them (not even the ones that voted to get the funding) should be rewarded with re-election. Why? Because it would demonstrate that they could not operate as a group knowing full well that the legal constituents want them to make the resolution happen.
Actually they can get a code from the IRS
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back1202.html
If an illegal alien is not paying income taxes, how Leila are they paying into social security. Last time I checked, my data from S.S. showed when I worked and how much taxes I put in but only for those years I worked and paid. An employer is required to withhold ALL appropriate taxes.
I’ve worked for a couple of construction companies in the past. The contractors are not audited. They can pay their employees with a check and write it off as an expense. That is how it’s done.
Look at it this way Leila, if they were paying taxes we wouldn’t be having problems with revenue.
Sorry, but it is a waste of time having a serious discussion with you.
Patriot, You have stated it brilliantly. I couldn’t agree more.
Keep their feet to the fire!
…and I have another benefit to offer…
# 13: Preservation of the historical, ever changing melting pot American culture. (The American culture, resulting from contributions of Germans, French, Italians, Latinos, Asians and so on is very much different than the culture of any other nationality…we are very inclusive and supportive of those here legally…and that includes Latinos too!!)
Patty, perhaps you should read the NYT article. A very large percentage of illegal immigrants are subsidizing the SS system because their employers (in various industries) withhold their taxes via payroll. Since you apparently find it far too onerous to click on the link, I am willing to paste the entire thing into a message here, but surely that shouldn’t be necessary. The article explains the process in full, has information directly from the SSA (including its chief actuary) as well as from academics studying the issue, and gives case study examples.
A problem, as others on this blog have mentioned in the past, is that the SS is national, so your local revenue wouldn’t be helped. However the amount on a national level is substantial, $7 billion a year.
I really don’t understand why we haven’t marched on ICE’s office in Fairfax and demanded that they do their jobs. We seriously need to start taking this to the streets and demand that those whose job it is to enforce the law are doing it. We don’t ask ICE to do their jobs, we march on their office and demand that they do it. Call the media too. When they see a few thousand people telling them to do the right thing on national TV then maybe they will go out and round some illegals up. Greg, you really have to start taking a more hardline approach to these government twits if you’re going to be the voice of HSM. Even Martin Luther King Jr. peacefully marched on many a government office in his day. I guarantee you that the last thing ICE wants to see is 2500 people outside its office begging them to do their job and enforce immigration law.
The Patriot, Patty, and Gone Fishing,
We’ve got just a week more to call, email, fax, and visit those Supervisors. Keep their feet to the fire!! A must indeed!
Leila seems to be wrapped around the axle about paying SS. If they do pay, they are illegal and have false ID.
They also claim massive exemptions to the point of not really “paying” anything. I have found a couple websites on the internet that even speaks of such practices for illegals and they are actually “how-to” type articles.
Illegals beat the system, think about it…the vast majority dont care about America. They come here to work, and send all their money back. It would be common sense to them that they would avoid paying into our system so they can send more home.
That’s exactly what they do. They avoid paying anything extra. so they can send back to their families in 3rd world countries to live the big life.
The bottom line here:
(1). they are illegal, that should be enough said.
(2). I dont care if they pay sales tax, that’s just plain B/S.
(3). I dont care about their country, I care about mine and I care
about how it’s being trashed by them.
Stand up, be an American and start supporting your country. I know I love this country and I know if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
“Prince William Supervisor Chairman Corey A. Stewart, R-at large, and Virginia House of Delegates candidate Faisal Gill are hosting a press conference at the Northern Virginia Building Industry Association in Chantilly at 10:30 a.m.”
Oh yeah……..
What Josh said is totally true!
During the Senate amnesty hearings, a ratio was mentioned that covered how much the illegals and their families pay into the system and what they take out. Hers is what the ratio was:
1:3 (the 1 represents what they “pay” into the system; the 3 represents what they take out of the system (due to WIC, Foodstamps, free medical, free education, subsidized housing, etc.)).
This ratio is a net loss.
Josh, apparently you refuse to read the article as well. If they are paying as much as $7 billion into the SSA as stated, then what you say is not correct. However I assume you have special secret Josh statistics that contradicts what SSA officials say.
I mentioned sales tax in passing, the fact that you and Patty choose to seize on that passing mention is telling. Since I was responding directly to another poster’s question, I clearly am not “wrapped around the axle” of the issue as you so violently put it. Anonymous said “pay no taxes.” I offered a couple of ways they do, sales tax in passing, the SS tax significantly, and probably others I don’t know about. I also mentioned that since the SS is national, it doesn’t help your problem.
Interesting to see a famous 60s quote at the end of a post by a person who is the antithesis of that spirit. As with so many here, you appear to be incapable of allowing others to be American who don’t agree with you. The love it or leave it rhetoric is getting very old.
Read the article. I also can cite related ones on the no-match letter campaign, which is directly linked.
Of course some illegals pay SS taxes, but that is only because of stolen SS numbers. The ones who clean houses, serve as nannies, do day labor, and yard work are paid cash by the hour and they don’t pay tax on that income. The SS taxes that are received by the ones who do pay is federal money so the county doesn’t see that money. The person whose SS was stolen also pays to deal with their identity theft. So the county loses.
Yes, they do pay sales tax but that is state revenue and NoVA only gets pennies back on the dollar of state revenue. Once again, the county loses.
Yes, they do pay real estate property tax but they operate single family homes as multifamily units while only paying single family tax. Don’t you realize that there is a reason properties are referred to in real estate and in assessments as ’single family’ homes? Our entire tax system is based on those homes being occupied by a single family. We base our school sizes on those homes being occupied by a single family. They also rent out rooms of their homes, but they don’t file tax forms as landlords and they don’t pay taxes on the rental income received. What a surprise, the county loses again.
Finally , when they send 6-7 kids per home to school that don’t speak English, it is the county who pays. When Potomac Hospital goes belly up because of indigent care, it is the county who pays, when the police department has to add extra officers, it is the county who pays, when the libraries/parks/fire departments/roads have to add more resources for more people without more revenue coming in, the county pays again.
When the county pays, it means people like me pay.
Thus it is people following the rules paying for people who aren’t following the rules.
Since no one else will deal with the problem, the county has to step up and do it.
Leila,
The New York Slimes is known to be the most liberal rag in media. You cannot trust their reporting. They have been caught many times - from slanting the truth like in the Duke rape case, to out and out fraud like reporter Jayson Blair. And let us not forget it was the Slimes that ran the treasonous
MoveOn.org General Petraeus ad, and even gave them a 64% discount on it.
Leila on 8 Oct 2007 at 11:39 am:
YES - WITH STOLEN SSN NUMBERS!
Leila on 8 Oct 2007 at 11:39 am:
They haven’t figured a way yet to get around paying the sales taxes except when they shoplift!
G Man, I agree the NYT is liberal (though hardly the most liberal in the media, what an odd thought). But I don’t agree that the things you mention make every article in their pages suspect or even most of them. They have a chart from the SSA, they quote the SSA’s chief actuary by name, they quote academics by name. All these individuals and organizations have provided this info elsewhere and not asked for a retraction here. I presented this article because I knew about it. You have offered no information to refute the actual claims stated by officials and academics in the article (if you read it), you have just attacked the source. As others have said above and elsewhere, the fact illegal aliens pay into SS doesn’t help the local coffers. In addition, people in the anti-illegal alien movement would argue that no matter what they are paying into SS, they are still illegal, they take more than they give, etc. etc. I don’t need to make your arguments for you. None of that, however, contradicts the claim of the bolstering of SSA.
Anonymous, how brave you are to keep posting without even the accountability of a made up name. I never offered any sort of justification whatsoever of the means they use to pay into the SS system. Everyone knows the numbers are stolen or made up. I was commenting entirely in relation to the question that was posted.
What Benefits? If i remember correctly illigals are not allowed to receive any type goverment assistance, i should know because i once was an illigal immigrant, and everytime i got sick, my parents who were day laborers had a choice of paying for my healthcare or buying a sufficent amount of food, because, we as illigals didn’t qualify to receive goverment assistance. Who ever is claiming that illigals cost the taxpayers so much money is trying to hide the fact that all types US citizens from diffrent backgrounds exploit this service to their advantage, don’t just pick on hispanics, blacks, asians, middle easterns, european, and above all white families all abuse this service. If i had it my way, there shouldn’t be any goverment aid, everybody should work three jobs like my parents did.
Hickspanic (heh, clever name), do the words Christians and lions mean anything at all to you?
Why are you arguing about whether or not they pay or don’t pay. Illegal is illegal. There are no degrees of illegal.
The impact to the neighborhoods, property values, schools and burden on health care is all that is needed to know to realize this is not good for PWC/Manassas.
park’d on 8 Oct 2007 at 12:30 pm:
Agree with you whole heartedly that we should take to the streets. The problem is that the average U.S. citizen has become complacent and expects someone else to make some noise so little gets done. The illegals have little to lose (as most of them have no jobs) and can well afford (with the help of their advocates) to take to the streets. Look at all of the TV coverage these groups receive. If the “gringos” took to the streets in mass to protest the invasion, I am confident that something positive would come out of it and you would probably get some government action and at the very least, you would see the illegals hitting the road for “greener” pastures and less hostile areas.
G Man Something to consider –
Even the most liberal of newspapers are owned by those that consider themselves the most conservative right. It’s all about money money money and greed greed greed. Altruism is a thing of the past - everywhere.
I wonder if 2,500 people, as park’d suggests, would show up at ICE during the work day. Obviously it has to be then, otherwise it would be laughable no? Is there any indication HSM could produce 2500 people like that? It’s not easy.
Leila on 8 Oct 2007 at 1:20 pm:
Leila, you are in the lions den right now!
Is there a link to Gary Jacobsen’s letter to the editor? I cannot find it in the online Post and the paper copy went to work with Mr. Dolph.
Being Prince William County’s shock jock is Gary’s hobby. He loves controversy and the more attention he gets, the happier he will be. Notice Gary always works solo. There is a reason for this. He doesn’t play well with others. Nuff said?
Anonymous, that may or may not be. But I think Hickspanic’s fresh meat may be more tempting.
Leila, you state that you are referring to SSA information. I have another statistic for you from the SSA 2008 budget. You say that the illegals contribute ” a substantial $7B per year”, but the “…SSA will pay “$645B in Federal benefits…” That means that illegals contribute 1.08572%, hardly “substantial”.
Leila, oh ye of little faith!! You really underestimate the
passion of HSM members. We realize it won’t be “easy”
but we do like challenges.
One Voice got it right…we’re talking about people who are here illegally…they shouldn’t even BE HERE, pay taxes or not…hence, the taxes they do pay are paid illegally. ‘nough said. How in the world any of you can justify the mere presence in this country of illegal aliens absolutely befuddles me.
Whether we need their labor or not…whether they pay taxes or not…whether they have families at home to support or not…whether they’re violent or not…whether they’re nice or not…whether they’re Christian or not….whether they’re white or not…it all makes no difference. We’re talking about those who entered this country illegally. They shouldn’t be here!
How many are you willing to make excuses for?? 20M? 30M? 40M? 100M??
Illegal immigrants, by income taxes and SS payments,
may, in some cases, be an ecomomic positive for
federal and state government, but are a massive
drain on the resources of LOCAL government. They
swell the cost of LOCAL services - schools, health care
public safety, etc. This is a basic economic reality.
There are counties and cities across America that are
being overwhelmed and Washington will not help them.
No! Leila i leave my god where he belongs, maybe if i was some radical who believes that god teaches hate and violence that might mean something to me, Let’s leave god out of this conversation.
My name, Hickspanic, comes from the fact that i am Hispanic, but i have adapted a southern tradition of hard work with laid back country pastimes. All my white friends whom i’ve adapted this lifestyle from are all Native Virginians, people who don’t blame their problems on the weak and ignorant. So the next time you see this “Mexican” (as you all put it) with a confederate flag on his vehicle, don’t be confused, or alarmed it’s new generation of americans who are not going anywhere.
Hold up there Hickspanic. I believe you totally misunderstood me.
1. I was speaking metaphorically, of course, with Christians and Lions. I wasn’t bring god (as you lc) into anything at all.
2. As for “Mexican,” that isn’t a generic umbrella term for me, though it appears to be for many on here. I know very well that Mexico is low on the list of countries of origin for Hispanics in this area. I also doubt you would want to include me in any “you all” on this HSM list. I don’t share the views of most people here and live in a county, Arlington, that has shall we say a very different approach to the issues.
It’s kind of amusing to be so mistakenly lumped.
Gone Fishing, I don’t doubt HSM’s zeal at all, trust me. I was just wondering (textually) aloud whether 2,500 in the middle of a work day is something even the true believers of your organization could pull off. Obviously if you are planning to march on ICE to demand they do their jobs, it would help for them to be there.
Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. (Teddy Roosevelt)
No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man’s permission when we ask him to obey it. (Teddy Roosevelt)
Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN
“In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile…We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language…and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Leila on 8 Oct 2007 at 2:15 pm:
You are quite correct with your statement ” I don’t share the views of most people here and live in a county, Arlington, that has shall we say a very different approach to the issues.”
Neither does San Francisco or Los Angeles and you see what it has brought them.
Live and let Live, Everybody in this country has the right to express their views, but don’t try to hide your racism, or pretend to be some organized vigilantes of some sort. Be honest with yourselves you have seen what other races have done for themselves jews, italians, japanese, middle easterns, blacks, etc. the fact that this contry has allowed itself to be overtaken by foreigners is very intimidating and people like the members of the “HSM”(LOL) are always looking for a scapaegoat, somebody to point the finger at, so go ahead point the finger, our time will come when we will look down on you as a minority, then we’ll see who’s intimidated by who, it’s just a matter of time.
Oh my Anonymous. You mean I am correct about what I myself wrote about myself and where I live? Glory be.
I’m afraid I will have to disagree with you on the cities. I have never been to LA, but I have been a couple of times to SF, NYC, and other cities whose politics differ from those of PWC and LC and I think they are some of the most wonderful places I know. I don’t think Arlington is that bad either.
Hickspanic, you appear to be trolling, you also appear to be contradictory since you expressed your affection for the Confederate flag. But none of the HSMers appear to care. Maybe they sense you are staged.
I’m not staged, and i’m not trolling. My affection for the Confederate Flag, goes to show that if given the opportunity we can adapt, as a matter of fact most people want to adapt, they are just denied any opprtunity.
HSM, are a bunch of cowards who would take candy from a baby, as long as nobody’s watching. I’m tired of them intimidating people for no reason, harrasing and advertising their hate messages. Why bother innocent hard working people, when there are real criminals to worry about?
Nobody talks about the these corporations who have 90 to 95% illigal imigrants working for them, and if they do, they sure as hell don’t do anything about it. The are out there, i see there trucks everyday, instead they like to pick on the poor day laborer fresh off the boat.
I saw an old lady trying to cross the street a few minutes ago, if they hurry they might get there on time to run her over, one less Mexican to worry about.
Some people believe that the NYT is God’s truth. Remember Jason Blair. Some people believe that SS taxes are used to pay for teachers, roads, police, infrastructure, etc. Some people are just out of touch with reality.
Hickspanic: It’s too bad that most other Hispanics in this area don’t learn to adapt like you did. Obviously many have and have become productive members of society, but the VAST majority have not due to all the ‘fresh off the boat’ illegal aliens that have flooded the area in the past 5 years. I have nothing against Hispanics, in fact my girlfriend is a Columbian who was adopted at birth by an American family. She flat out refuses to date native Spanish men because of how they treat women and the whole machismo thing they have going on. You just assume that because we want our neighborhoods clean, our American culture left in tact, our taxes low, etc that we must be racist. I was really starting to take to you and then you had to go and blow it by saying that HSM’s agenda was one of racism and xenophobia. You are just as ignorant, sad and sorry as that which you claim to loathe.
Dave
Some people might find “adapting” by adopting the battle flag of a slaveholding society problematic, but then this is Virginia. Thanks for the (sort of) explanation.
Hickspanic, I agree that we need to go after employers, but there already are about a dozen organizations at the national level that play in that real of federal law. At the local level, where we are, there’s very little opportunity to punish employers for hiring illegals. What legislation at the county or municipal level would you have HSM promote that would be lawful?
If you’re interested in protests, taking pictures of employers hiring illegal aliens, and that sort of stuff, I encourage you to contact the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, which is actively engaged in this. We’ve chosen not to engage in this, and I think for good reason.
About the only thing HSM does regarding employers is promote those who try to follow the rules. We promote businesses which have signed on with our “Do The Right Thing” Program, and encourage our members to choose to do business with them. It’s a responsible way of encouraging good behavior. You can call it whatever you want, but we deliberately focus on local issues at the local level, and have a good track record so far of getting positive results.
My question is why hasn’t HSM contacted Chris Core to let him know we want to march on the ICE office in Fairfax? I’m sure that HSM has developed the necessary media contacts out there to get the word out to schedule a public rally. HSM could organize something like this and with the help of someone like Chris Cole or Bill O’Reilly we could get many thousands of people to show up and march, and probably many thousands of others to drive by and honk and show their support. These clowns will never do their jobs unless they know we mean business.
[Ed note: I’m unaware of any interest by the HSM membership in doing any such thing. HSM doesn’t generally do protests.]
“Preservation of the historical, ever changing melting pot American culture. (The American culture, resulting from contributions of Germans, French, Italians, Latinos, Asians and so on is very much different than the culture of any other nationality…we are very inclusive and supportive of those here legally…and that includes Latinos too!!)”
So only the culture coming from legal aliens can be added to the melting pot? You are funny!
Patty, guess you still didn’t read the article, and nobody claimed SS taxes are used for local needs, only that illegal aliens were paying heavily into the SS system. The latter is correct and I noted several times the SS taxes were irrelevant locally.
It’s Jayson Blair as G Man correctly noted. This information on SSA was from the SSA.
“I have nothing against Hispanics, in fact my girlfriend is a Columbian who was adopted at birth by an American family”
I am amazed that you are dating a Hispanic from Colombia and you haven’t even learned how to talk about Colombians and not Columbians(from Missouri I guess).
Ohh please Zapata. Pick, pick, pick. I also spelled Chris Core ‘Chris Cole’ by accident as well. You going to fine me for that one too? I wouldn’t expect any less from someone who takes their nick after a Mexican revolutionary. I’ll bet you’re just dying to do the same thing here in the US too right? Kick all of us legal citizens out and take away our land for your little illegal buddies. Not on my watch amigo.
Why so far? He could have meant Columbia, Maryland. I am more intrigued by what park’d meant by “native Spanish men.” I feel sure I would have noticed if there were lots of eastern Iberians in these parts.
Zapata said…
“So only the culture coming from legal aliens can be added to the melting pot? You are funny!”
No, Zapata, those here illegally don’t wish to be “melted” into the American culture…they’re not Americans, they’re natives of another country who are simply “visiting” for work or whatever.
Quite logically, they wish to maintain their own native culture, and that’s quite alright, but it should be done at home, living in and contributing to their native culture.
I fail to see the humor, Zapata….why is that funny?
“Our political enemies think the poster is racist, but it just gives a simple message,” said Bruno Walliser, a chimney sweep who is running for Parliament on the party ticket at the Schwerzenbach rally, on a farm outside of Zurich. “The black sheep is not any black sheep that doesn’t fit into the family. It’s the foreign criminal who doesn’t belong here, the one that doesn’t obey Swiss law. We don’t want him.”
———————————————————————–
We are not alone!
Bob Sentz, I am not really sure how far you want to go with your familial link to this ultra-right Swiss Party. I read yesterday in Le Monde and some Swiss papers how the NPD, the farthest right party in Germany and one started by former Nazis, had copied the exact same poster. Also, the Swiss party is anti-immigrant in general, not just illegal ones.
I don’t know if you read French, but you can see both posters side by side at:
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3214,36-962207@51-962224,0.html
The illegals do not want to be “melted” and quite frankly, we do not want them to. They need to return home and make their countries better. If they are of such value, they are urgently needed at home. We want only legal, motivated immigrants who pledge allegiance to OUR flag. We pick who we want to welcome to our country.
Don’t forget that tomorrow (9 October) is the day that ‘THE ILLEGAL INVADERS ARE NOT GOING TO WORK AND WILL BRING THE COUNTY TO IT’S KNEES.” The say we can’t do without them.
WANNA BET?? It will end up just like their “boycott” on PWC
business. A BUST!!!
Except Freedom, many illegal aliens have settled and assimilated here. Some have been here for decades and raised children who know no other place. They have melted in exactly the same patterns of first and second generation immigrants who are not illegal.
USA Today had an interesting story today about a Peruvian girl, raised in the US since she was 2, who was just deported to Lima with her family. I realize none of you may be sympathetic, but the article was in the context of the Dream bill sponsored by Sen. Durbin.
It was the front page cover story:
“Children caught in the immigration crossfire”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-07-Dream_N.htm
Also,
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-dreamactoct07,1,613157.story
It would be hard to imagine someone as assimilated as this young woman, but she is 100% illegal.
Greg: maybe nobody has shown interest in an ‘ICE March’ because it hasn’t been tabled yet? I am willing to bet that there would be LOTS of interest and with some media attention from Chris, etc it would be something that would shock them awake. Please do your jobs ICE, we beg you to do your jobs. A few thousand people chanting that might get some action.
Hickspanic said on 8 Oct 2007 at 3:39 pm:
“The are out there, i see there trucks everyday, instead they like to pick on the poor day laborer fresh off the boat.”
The “day laborers” as you quaintly put it did not arrive in anybody’s boat. The ones in question are the ones who illegally crossed the U.S. border under the cover of darkness and are now living in the shadows. When will they ever see the “light?”
I fail to see a box on a W-4 form that asks if one is an illegal alien. I do see a box (4) that says “If your last name differs from that shown on your social security card, check here. You must call 1-800-772-1213 for a replacement card.” I wonder how many times that number is called.
Greg L said on 8 Oct 2007 at 4:00 pm:
…….. At the local level, where we are, there’s very little opportunity to punish employers for hiring illegals. What legislation at the county or municipal level would you have HSM promote that would be lawful?
Gee, this was the county’s argument as well and many others who point to the feds as the people who should solve the problem. Guess it depends on where you stand at the time or what your responsibilities are?
There are no state laws regarding state tax evasion? I thought that’s what Sen Watkins did and he was guilty. I’m confused.
No, I have not read the NYT article re: illegal aliens and SS and I will NOT read the article. Why would I? The NYT is a joke and prints misinformation daily. It’s an urban myth that illegals pay SS taxes. As has been noted above, if you are paid under the table, you don’t pay taxes. If your papers are not in order (genuine) you don’t pay taxes. It doesn’t even matter whether they pay SS taxes–they’re still illegal.
The Heritage Foundation shows that the illegal aliens are a drain on our society.
Once again the defenders of illegals show just how stupid they are.
Gary admits to having an estimate from a legal business that is willing to do work. Though, I thought, and according to those that defend illegals, illegals are the only ones who are willing to do such work, otherwise, why is there a need for them? But, of course Gary just provided us with the proof there are folks besides illegals who are willing to do the work.
I wonder if the COMPOST would publish a letter explaining how to rape a women or kill someone and what it was like to commit such a crime? Most likely not, so, why print a letter like this one that explains how to bring a law?
And of course we have self loathing Leila attempting to recycle the same old BS.
How do we know the ss numbers are from illegals only? There are plenty of people who make mistakes filling their own legal ss numbers, but of course the surplus must only be from illegals.
Who the hell cares if they are not getting money back, they are breaking the law, and as such, should not see a dime of it back since they have used stolen SS numbers in the first place.
I thought I overheard an ESOL teacher telling someone that it costs us an extra $3,100 per elementary ESOL student. Does anyone know if that figure is correct?
Urban myth Monticup? You are so amusing. Illegal aliens are not all day laborers paid under any table. You can’t have it both ways. It is true they use fraudulent SS numbers. I am sure you would agree with that. Part of the use of those is paying SS tax via the employer. THe info in the NYT article is from the GAO of the SSA. SSA’s chief actuary comments, and of course this info is not only available via the NYT. It is the basis of the DHS’s no-match letters campaign that is currently being held up by a federal judge. It is the subject of academic research.
So urban myth? Dream on. But forget it, anyone who would literally refuse to read something is telling the world all it needs to know.
Leila–if you don’t mind taking disinformation as fact, that’s your problem, that’s all the world needs to know. The NYT is a joke, didn’t you know that? The NYT has always been a lefty rag going back 50 years or so when Will Duranty sugar-coated Stalinist Russia. Would you take Duranty’s lies as fact?
Monticup, the article’s statistical information comes from the GAO of the SSA. Is the GAO of the SSA a lefty rag? Furthermore, here is a perspective that confirms the same info from an opposite critical perspective. It is an article from the Senior Citizens Council:
The Growing Cost of Illegal Immigration To Social Security
Unprecedented Growth in Social Security’s “Earnings Suspense File”
By Mary Johnson, Social Security and Medicare Policy Analyst
I can give you the URL, however you apparently have some trouble with reading. I can also give you the same info from the WSJ, the Christian Science Monitor, and more. With URLS. But again, if you have decided that illegal aliens don’g have SS/payroll taxes withdrawn, no amount of data no matter where it is from will persuade you. If Stephen Goss, the chief SSA actuary himself, repeated to you what he told the NYT, you would still call it an urban myth.
All - it’s a losing battle with Leila - you’ll end up going in circles with that woman. I can’t bear to read one more “repeat” from her.
We’ll never agree with her because her source is the NYT - full of lies and misinformation. Save your energy for the real fight!
Manassascityresident, I just said my source isn’t only the NYT. The fact you chose to ignore that means you aren’t really interested in information, only your own biases.
In fact, now I am finding more and more sources confirming that illegal aliens pay into SS that come from conservative, anti-illegal alien sources because the worry is that in some future scenario, they might be able to collect. None of this is rocket science. The info is all over, not just the NYT.
Here is confirmation from the CIS, otherwise known as the Center for Immigration Studies, otherwise known as an organization dedicated to YOUR cause, along with a general reduction in immigration:
“Social Security and Medicare. Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. However, they create a net deficit of $17.4 billion in the rest of the budget, for a total net loss of $10.4 billion. Nonetheless, their impact on Social Security and Medicare is unambiguously positive.”
So as you can see, unambiguously from a source that is a major think tank of your movement, that while they say illegal aliens are a NEGATIVE on the budget as a whole, their impact on SS and Medicare is positive. Because they pay taxes. But I guess the CIS, one of your own organizations, is also a “lefty rag.”
Leila you need to quote “The Red Neck Today” so your statistics can be trusted.
It id funny how people like to go with the names once you bring data to ghe discussion.
“Quite logically, they wish to maintain their own native culture, and that’s quite alright, but it should be done at home, living in and contributing to their native culture”
And the legal Salvadorans don’t eat pupusas anymore just hamburgers. You arguments are not only silly but stupid.
Anon, Not familiar with the publication you mention
But jeez, once you start to look for confirmation of this SS stuff it is everywhere from their OWN advocates, all in very soberly worded studies. It took a couple of minutes. Everything the NYT said confirmed by the most hardline of organizations in their OWN movement. But watch, they will either !. ignore, 2. still somehow challenge it. I guess they will have to say the CIS is a leftist group that only pretends to consider illegal aliens a crisis.
Leila, it is their own ignorance that has them in the situation they are: competing for resouces with illegal aliens.
I know what I will hear next: we will be called liberal communists.
Manassascityresident: You’re right. Leila grabs onto some extraneous bit of info and just worries it to death. I still say it’s her tactic to direct attention off the issue–she wants us to go with her as she spins her wheels.
Monticup, I replied to a question in a post on this thread. I didn’t bring the issue of illegal aliens and taxes up nor did I reply to that poster immediately. It was your and others’ refusal to accept the facts that made anything spin. Now you still refuse to admit you were wrong despite the fact a central think tank opposed to illegal aliens confirms exactly what the NYT said. The CIS, and lots of other like-minded sources of your own persuasion refute your preposterous notion of an “urban myth.”
It would embarrass me to exhibit the kind of intellectual dishonesty and cowardice you are exhibiting, but you obviously have the stomach for it.
Leila,
I agree with you that these folks resort to pre-fabricated arguments that learn from Lou Dobbs. Sometimes I think that they don’t want to use their brains but it might be that they just have empty skulls.
hen you don’t think on your own then they are manipulated by all these politicians that offer them to get rid of illegal aliens.
Leila,
We already went over this a few weeks ago. You are wrong. If someone steals a social security number, and uses it illegally, it does not matter how much money is involved. We already know, you will support illegals no matter what facts come your way.
I recall, asking the same question over and over, and you simply refuse to answer them. So before you jump on others about “intellectural dishonesty”, you might want to look in the mirror and see just who is doing it.
COM, I wasn’t addressing you. The issue was whether or not it was an “urban myth” that illegal aliens paid into the SS system. That is what Monticup claimed, he then also suggested that nothing the New York Times could report would be true. Except it is, from the most major of sources in the anti-illegal immigration movement.
The last question I remember your asking me, you decided to give me the TWO and only two answers you deemed could be possible. I even remember what they were. You did that in advance. Ie. you presume to answer people’s questions for them, which means you are not really asking. I am happy to answer any question on the issues, but not if I have my answers prescribed for me. That is why I stopped responding to you. You can’t dictate to others how they can answer something and then pretend you are actually engaging in an open discussion.
Unless you stop engaging in such childishly dictatorial behavior and stop assigning other people their precise options in responding to you, I see no reason in engaging in any discussion with you.
I also do not support or oppose “illegals” as you call them (I prefer not to butcher English). I do support gaining factual information about the problem of illegal aliens in the United States and trying to find a just, humane solution that will address the concerns of different sides. It doesn’t do your side of this controversy any good to deny facts as Monticup did. The CIS, whatever its biases, isn’t that foolish.
Good grief, some of you folks are scary! Is it better to wallow in stubborn ignorance than to admit you might just have to learn something new that might not fit into your world view? You might want to consider that there is more than one way to skin a cat and that those of us who do not totally agree with you might be valuable allies. Try to see the big picture. We have an illegal immigration problem that needs to be solved.
Obviously the 7 billion windfall in SSA is another incentive for the feds to keep the status quo on illegal immigration. It allows them to avoid dealing with an issue that is going to have to be dealt with in the very near future. The ostrich approach will only be a temporary fix because millions of baby boomers are ‘coming of age’ in less than five years.
Meanwhile, the feds will continue to allow state and local governments to attempt to pick up the financial tab caused by illegal immigration while congress and the president can continue to ignore that the social security crisis is looming on the horizon. It sounds like lose/lose to me.
I am a little familiar with this study, and it’s important to understand what it says and what it doesn’t. The study says that there’s a windfall of people paying into the system who are presumably illegal aliens who cannot legally get social security benefits. The majority of this is related to identity theft, or the use of fraudulent documents to obtain employment.
What this study does not do to my knowledge is tell us how many people aren’t paying social security withholdings who are legally required to do so.
So while the CIS study does demonstrate that right now the illegals who are paying into the system are paying more than they’ll ever get, it doesn’t tell us what would happen if there weren’t illegals taking jobs Americans could be doing which might increase the compliance rate for social security withholding.
The study is a small piece of the puzzle, it’s not the whole picture by any means.
Those of you that just don’t think there’s that much of a problem in Virginia, you must live in a gated community or a higher end community and the illegals can’t afford to buy your houses. It’s been much easier to turn my middle class neighborhood into a lower class dump.
Come into the Yorkshire/Loch Lomond area. I am seeing changes to my neighborhood on a weekly basis now, instead of a yearly basis. One house on my street was filled with people last week. Now it is empty. Probably will see a forclosure sign on it in a couple months.
Things I’ve seen lately in MY neighborhood:
-two (Hispanic) men in a car harassing a young girl as
she walks her dog
-covered trailers, cement mixers, construction trash
in a front yard (yes, I called a month ago)
-a group of Hispanic men blowing their snot on the
floor of an establishment (with carpet)
- 2 houses that have the storm door propped open,
with 5 Hispanic men already sitting on the front
porch
-many houses that haven’t cut the grass probably all
summer
-as I was working on a neighbors house, a young boy
across the street kept singing this song, very
loudly, so I could hear. His Hispanic dads (yes,
two dads, one kid), clapped and praised him over
& over when he finished. I figured out that he
was singing a song from his country, like our
America the Beautiful. They were sending me a
message through their (?) child. Very disturbing.
-a car sitting behind a stopped school bus picking up
children, that is so impatient he squeals tires as he
goes around the bus (very illegal). 4 Hispanic
men in the car
-trash in the street, on the sidewalks, in the yards
that’s thrown from cars as they drive through
So call me jaded, but I’ve had it to here with these culturally diverse roaches that don’t give a rat’s ass about my country’s culture, laws or respect for our citizens. They’ve worn our their “welcome” as far as I’m concerned.
Madmom
Don’t blame you one bit. You are not jaded, you are seeing things exactly as they are in your world. I don’t have to see it to believe you and I feel badly. All I can do is be sure that I vote for the candidates that have PWC/Manassas as their number one priority - regardless of which party. That is going to be the key to resolving this if people will stop and think that one through.
God bless.
Mathematically speaking, if people are paying in who can never pull out, then SSA is financially better off, at least on paper. Personally, I feel the entire ‘arrangement’ is dishonest on many different levels.
This artificial padding will eventually smack everyone in the face and the big smack down is coming very soon. The War was over in 1945. Do the math.
Umm Dolph don’t want false increases in SSA for lawmakers to make short-sighted decisions regarding the funding…!
No kidding and I think that is exactly what is happening. And I think they know it and hope we don’t know it. But that is jaded on my part. Just another false sense of security we are being lulled into accepting perhaps?
Yes, being lulled by thieves.
After reading madmom’s post, my ire went off the charts.
If the BOCS really is serious about cleaning up Prince William County, they would beef up the compliance office or whatever you call the inspection agency and not allow a complaint to go for 30 days. For that matter, they know the problem neighborhoods. A little pro-active work on their part could ward off a lot of these problems. I don’t want to live in a police state but I could put up with a little community big brother to get rid of some of these trashy situations.
This issue goes beyond legal vs illegal. It is a class issue. People must conform to existing community standards. Those of us without HOAs must rely on the county to enforce standards of common decency.
What excuses do they offer for their non-effective compliance office? (Lafayette, help me out with the correct name)
Neighborhood Services
5 County Complex Court, Suite 280
Woodbridge VA 22192
703-792-7018
nsd@pwcgov.org
Neighborhood Services is a division of Prince William County’s Department of Public Works. The Neighborhood Services Division is committed to maintaining and enhancing Prince William County’s neighborhoods through public awareness of community maintenance, property code violations and litter control. If you have questions about Neighborhood Services, call 703-792-7018 or email us at nsd@pwcgov.org. The division has three branches:
Property Code Enforcement
Property Code Enforcement is tasked with ensuring that all existing structures are maintained in structurally sound and safe conditions and for enforcing codes that ensure properties in Prince William County are used in accordance with land use requirements. For a description of how complaints are processed through the legal system, visit Community Maintenance - Zoning Violations and How to Report Them. Property Code Enforcement is also responsible for programs dealing with “spot blight” (unsafe and rundown structures) and illegal signs in the road right-of-way.
Litter Control and Landscaping
Litter Control crews remove trash, debris and illegal signs within the State road right-of-way. Crews work alongside the Prince William Clean Community Council to support community cleanups. For more information about the Litter Control Program, click here.
For more information about trash disposal, click here. If you are interested in recycling, click here.
Neighborhood Coordination
Neighborhood Coordination partners with communities to maintain and improve the quality of life in our neighborhoods through neighborhood asset/needs assessments and community group formation and support. Details of the services provided by Neighborhood Coordination are available here.
But what are they doing to help with the community standards problem?
From everyone I have talked to, this agency is toothless-either that or they don’t give a rat’s rear end.
I feel this is where some heat needs to be applied. It is their job to respond to people with complaints and they aren’t doing it in a timely fashion. When they come to Westgate, they wear blinders.
dolph on 8 Oct 2007 at 9:43 pm:
dolph, you may be unaware but the first attempt to slam through the “comprehensive immigration” bill in the senate had a provision whereby anyone who stole and used a false SSN would not be prosecuted for doing that (it is a felony) and would be forgiven. Also the money the illegal paid into that phoney SSN account would be given back to the illegal. It’s hard to believe that is what Harry DUH Reid and his cronies proposed but it is true. The dumbocrats were really looking out for us!
Madmom, dolph, I agree, I haven’t the slightest clue what the property code people are doing, i complained to Stirrup and got no real response on the issue. I suggested property code people, actually drive around and just paste citations on peoples houses, there are various fines for all these things on the books already. Might point is that people get sick of calling, so just drive around with a ticket book. This is how every big city operates, but i am not entirely sure that our BOCS is ready for big city problems and big city solutions, even though their policies or lack there of have turned the Manassas area and PWC into a big city.
madmom,
Please don’t feel jaded! I am so glad you posted the things you have seen. I don’t think people are aware of what is going on! Certainly we don’t read about these awful things in the MJM!
People who live in the gated communities, the upper scale neighborhoods and the rural areas just don’t know what is going on!
I think if we would all post the things we have seen, then people would be more aware of what is really happening in Manassas and the county.
It makes my blood boil when I think about these cockroaches coming into our city and county and literally tearing it up!
I will add one more thing to your list. I have seen two men urinating in public - one in front of Central Library! How disgusting!
I have yelled at a couple to clean up their trash in the yard but they probably didn’t understand me. I speak only English! But I later noticed one picking up trash - a white lady!
Enough said!
Anonymous said on 8 Oct 2007 at 10:21 pm:
For Leila: here is what the NYT didn’t report. Yes, some illegals paid into SS using stolen documents but many didn’t and the following was in the 2006 Senate bill.
Here are two excerpts from the 2006 Senate Comprehensive Immigration Bill that were debated and dumped (thank God!) Notice the wording about not prosecuting employees for failing to pay taxes and withholding on illegal employees. Look at the amnesty provision for using stolen and false SSN and telling the SSA to correct their records and give the illegals credit for their payments using stolen documents. This is the U.S. Senate at its worst!
TITLE VI—WORK AUTHORIZATION AND LEGALIZATION OF UNDOCUMENTED INDIVIDUALS (aka amnesty)
It makes illegal aliens wanting amnesty pay at least some of the back taxes they owe (they only have to pay for the time they worked after April 5, 2001), but absolutely prohibits prosecution of or penalties of any kind for employers who knowingly hired illegal aliens and/or failed to pay taxes and withholding on illegal employees.
Grants all amnesty beneficiaries an amnesty from prosecution for social security fraud for using false or stolen social security numbers and it requires the Social Security Administration to correct their social security records and give them credit for work performed while in the country illegally.
Maybe the tide is finally turning.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/WN/FedCrimes/story?id=3691120&page=1
Basically, the Senate wanted to give illegal aliens more rights than citizens have. Look what happened to the couple in New Hampshire–taken to jail for not paying their taxes. Yet illegals would only have to pay part of their back taxes. What is going on here?
Anonymous, a few quick questions so I can learn more about what you posted.
1. You say these are “excerpts” from a Senate bill? That would mean verbatim quotation if they are excerpts. So you are saying that a bill in the United States Senate said “aka amnesty” and used all the language you have put up there and that you are calling an excerpt? Interesting. Could you please provide a source where the above verbatim Senate excerpt came from? Things really must be different on the Hill. Who knew?
2. Are you certain the NYT never reported on such provisions? The article I cited was from early 2005. This appears to be from 2006 from what you said. How is it that you know the NYT never reported on it when the bill was being deliberated?
Thanks.
re: tide turning
I think this is a temporary effort just for show by Chertoff. I don’t trust him. He is like Jorge Bush–in favor of massive immigration from South of the Border. He doesn’t want his buddy Vicente Fox to be angry at him since he promised Vicente he’d open up the borders.
Is it Chertoff or Bush who is keeping the promise with the president of Mexico who left office more than nine months ago? Unsure who the “He” is in “He doesn’t want his buddy, etc.”
Jorge Bush was/is a buddy of Vicente Fox (notwithstanding Fox’s negative description of Bush is his just released book). Jorge was groveling to Calderon down in Cancun (or somewhere like that) not too long ago. Chertoff may be a friend of Fox/Calderon as well, for all I know.
I knew George Bush was a friend of Fox. But the He was ambiguous. Also I wondered why he would be keeping promises to someone long gone from power.
That results in that article are myths. Always some place else they enforce to make you think they are doing something. ICE has been MIA in this area. What better example could they set than to crack down in the nation’s capital? BS, all. ICE march anyone?
Leila on 8 Oct 2007 at 11:59 pm:
Look up the 2006 proposed bill yourself ye of little faith. The Senate bill promised those points cited. The bill was nothing more than amnesty for all illegals.
Anonymous, it isn’t a question of being of little faith. If you say you are quoting an EXCERPT, it should be an excerpt. An excerpt means a quotation or passage from the source you are claiming, in this case a piece of legislation.
That didn’t appear to be an excerpt because the language was off, rather dramatically off. Now perhaps the Senate has gotten all colloquial of late, but what I was asking for is your source. What is the source of what you pasted? I am assuming I would have to find the actual bill elsewhere, since I doubt you were providing it. But why are you reluctant to say where the language you had came from if you want someone to be able to evaluate the information you are giving?
sigh. Leila, this nitpicking is getting tedious. What is your agenda? Ask Jorge why he cares so much about appeasing Fox/Calderon.
Monticup, if you feel asking you who He was and wondering why you were referring to a president long gone is nitpicking, then ignore the question. I don’t think it is remotely about appeasing ANY Mexican leader. That is a real joke. The world’s only superpower worried about appeasing Mexico. Bush’s agenda on immigration is pro-business, period. But he also has to make noises toward you all, his base. So he does.
madmom 8 Oct 9:38
I can certainly relate…it is disgusting indeed to watch our
neighborhoods being taken over by “rats” and “cockroaches”.
monticup 8 Oct 11:55
“…..the couple in NH taken to jail for not paying their taxes”..
Look what happened to a Manassas couple who went for years
not paying their taxes, and guess what? He became our sheriff!
monticup, you must feel very special, having Leila “tutor” you
on so many subjects! As Lafayette has said, “time to activate
your IGNORE button!.
For Leila
rather than print the entire Senate bill here which is over 600 pages long (you can find it and read it yourself) - here is an article from the 22 May 2006 WT which states the same thing and quotes the bill. If you still have an issue, suggest you contact Charles Hurt at the WT and call him a liar.
Senate bill protects employers of illegal aliens from penalties
By Charles Hurt
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
May 22, 2006
Among those who will be cleared of past crimes under the Senate’s proposed immigration-reform bill would be the businesses that have employed the estimated 10 million illegal aliens eligible for citizenship and that provided the very “magnet” that drew them here in the first place.
Buried in the more than 600 pages of legislation is a section titled “Employer Protections,” which states: “Employers of aliens applying for adjustment of status under this section shall not be subject to civil and criminal tax liability relating directly to the employment of such alien.”
Supporters of the legislation insist that such provisions do not amount to “amnesty.”
“The legislation we are considering today is not amnesty,” Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter said last week. “That is a pejorative term, really a smear term used to denigrate the efforts at comprehensive immigration reform. This is not amnesty because amnesty means a pardon of those who have broken the law.”
Mr. Specter, Pennsylvania Republican, and others argue that the bill is not amnesty for illegal aliens because they will have to pay $2,000 in fines before they gain citizenship.
The law does not, however, provide for such fines against employers who have broken the law by hiring the illegals.
Sen. Robert C. Byrd, West Virginia Democrat, vehemently opposes “this effort to waive the rules for lawbreakers and to legalize the unlawful actions of undocumented workers and the businesses that illegally employ them.”
Amnesties, he said, “are the dark underbelly of our immigration process.”
“They tarnish the magnanimous promise enshrined on the base of the Statue of Liberty,” Mr. Byrd said last week on the Senate floor. “Amnesties undermine that great egalitarian and American principle that the law should apply equally and should apply fairly to everyone.”
While most of the focus thus far has been on the “amnesty” granted to illegal aliens, opponents only now are discovering the broad range of crimes that will be forgiven under the legislation.
Lawyers for the Senate Judiciary Committee have scoured the bill and come up with a list of 31 crimes relating to illegal immigration that would be wiped clean.
Under current law, simply entering the country illegally can result in a six-month prison stay and a $250,000 fine. Aiding in that crime carries a similar fine and a five-year prison sentence. Once ordered deported, an illegal racks up $500 per day of continued “illegal presence.”
In addition, there are the perjury and false statements associated with fraudulently filling out federal tax forms. Each instance carries up to a five-year prison sentence and a $250,000 fine. Then there is the wide array of crimes relating to forging false documents needed to obtain work. Punishments for those crimes range from civil fines to 25 years in prison.
Also, there are crimes relating to the misuse of Social Security numbers needed to obtain work. Those crimes can result in five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
Businesses that have committed any alien-hiring crimes would be forgiven under the provisions of the bill, although the laws would remain on the books and, thus, future violations could be prosecuted.
In addition to absolving illegals for past misuse of Social Security numbers and documentation, the Senate last week voted to allow aliens to get Social Security benefits based on working in the United States illegally (and using forged documents and identity theft.)
The issue of granting amnesty — especially the employers who have drawn the illegal aliens to the country in the first place — already has become a growing issue in the fall elections.
Sen. Ben Nelson, Nebraska Democrat, who is up for re-election this fall, is taking a tough stand in the current debate. He most often votes with conservative Republicans who want immigration laws that are tougher than what they’re calling “amnesty.”
The National Republican Senatorial Committee has dug up newspaper reports from several years ago, when Mr. Nelson lobbied on behalf of companies exasperated with federal immigration officials for cracking down on the illegal aliens they were hiring.
“Former Gov. Ben Nelson is representing a group of meatpackers and livestock producers upset with a federal crackdown on undocumented workers at the state’s packing plants,” according to an Associated Press report from June 3, 1999. “Nelson said a ‘loosely knit’ group of processors, producers and feeders first approached him last month about problems they have with the Immigration and Naturalization Service’s pilot program, called Operation Vanguard.”
In that article, titled “Nelson: INS Crackdown Draining State’s Small Labor Pool,” Mr. Nelson reportedly said he’d “contacted the state’s senators and congressmen to discuss possible changes in the INS program.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1886327/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1908537/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1907313/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1908666/posts
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58033
They not only cheat on immigration and taxes, now it’s sports.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MEXICO_MARATHON_CHEAT?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULTet
Thank you Anonymous (is there a reason you won’t use a name?), however the article doesn’t actually quote the bill anywhere. Except, perhaps, the words “illegal presence.” You appear to have the same kind of personalized definition of quote as you have of excerpt. But this is at least from an acknowledged source and discusses the terms of what you were talking about. I will try to actually find something that does quote the bill, or the bill itself.
Perhaps now though you could tell me where that first thing you copied and pasted was from, you know the one you called an excerpt from the bill and had the colorful term “aka amnesty.”
So this is also the matter you explicitly said the NYT has never reported on, correct? That indeed is shocking of a publication known in some circles as the “paper of record.”
PS: I figured you might want me to be Anonymous too
Leila-Your long-winded diatribes are the exact reason nothing gets done. We need to have a meeting to determine when we should have our next meeting. And, so on…
Cry me a river, I don’t attend any of your meetings so I could hardly be holding them up, or anything else up on your HSM agenda. But I am intrigued that you might think that anything I write would be the *exact reason* your movement is impeded. How quaint. I’ll admit also to being at the “grassy knoll” if you’ll feel better. Use the scroll bar.
another diatribe. blah, blah, blah
Ouch, cry, ouch. Devastating. Along with agenda-impeding, I seem to have telepathically prevented you from hitting an arrow.
another diatribe. blah, blah, blah, blah
Anonymous said on 9 Oct 2007 at 12:28 pm:
For Leila
The original source is numbersusa
http://www.numbersusa.com/PDFs/061506WorstofSenatebill.pdf
Anonymous said on 9 Oct 2007 at 1:41 pm:
Thank you Anonymous (is there a reason you won’t use a name?)
A rose by any other name is still a rose!
Rose would do nicely, unless you are male. Then you might want something more macho like Snapdragon. Thank you for the URL.
So much ignorance, so little time. Leila, the basic problem here seems to be that some people do not know the difference between fact and opinion or the definition of diatribe.
[…] Original post by BLACK VELVET BRUCE LI […]
Leila,
I sense your arguments are more about winning over your opponents than about presenting the complete and whole truth. What you post are only a few facts to support your arguments that we should not worry about “illegals”, and you with mighty words and clever ego are here to champion them. You completely miss the big picture.
“illegals” and some siginificant number of legals are sucking billions of dollars out of the US economy. ($15 billion alone goes to Mexico, I do not know how much goes to other South American, Asian, African, Australian, European or Asian countries). Though a small amount of unavoidable taxes are paid by illegal people, a much larger amount of tax that should be paid is evaded with multiple tactics, including lying and theft. Illegals are taking far more out of the local, state, and federal budget than they are putting in. That means the rest of us are dis-proportionately funding their services and suffering from their racial group and ethnic group political tactics. In their desire to take even more for themselves they band together and fight anybody not belonging to their ethnic or racial group or supporting their ethnic agenda, and claim these benefits and political agenda’s only for their racial and ethnic group advantage. When these individuals label themselves and align with any racial, ethnic, religious or gender group alignment to fight against another group, they are themselves racist, privileged ethnic groups, priviliged religious groups, or privileged gender advocates who care little for the equitable welfare of all regardless of race, religion, gender or ethnicity.
Our HSM arguments against “them” (i.e. all illegals regardless of race, religion, gender or ethnic group) are focused on the only thing we can legally discrimminate to protect ourselves from the destructive effects they arrogantly and militantly bring into our country and communities. We can LEGALLY discrimminate between those who are lawful and those who are unlawful and illegal. We can also punish them. You in your unending posts to seek superiority over those who argue with you, point out something that merely “attempts” a partial truth, to claim that “illegals” are benefical in a small way, should be held in high regard, and you seem to be driven emotionally to cast them in a “good” light, while ignoring the rest of the truth. The truth has as it’s root cause, community destruction caused by illegal and unlawful behavior. They pay far less tax than they should, and cause far more problems in communities than the minor benefits they provide the community (mostly for their own personal benefit and their own ethnic group benefit)
Your support for “illegals” and “pro” arguments are trivial compared to the reality of the overall damage and destruction to our country, our community and our general welfare that illegals cause.
Check and Checkmate!!
She doesn’t get it…