"We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge" - Barack Obama (aka President Malaise)
Pitch in with the Prince William Young Republicans and help defeat Obama in 2012!
Woodbridge Workers Committee Files Suit
By Greg L | 10 October 2007 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 245 Comments
I’ve gotten word that the Woodbridge Worker’s Committee has filed a lawsuit this morning in the Federal Eastern District Court in Alexandria against Prince William County asking for an injunction and declaratory relief regarding recent efforts to address the effects of illegal aliens unlawfully residing in Prince William County. The basis for their claims appear to be the supremacy and equal protection clauses of the Constitution, and the plaintiffs in the case are listed as a bunch of “John Does”, which would lead one to believe that these are illegal aliens filing suit against our local government in order to change the laws that have been passed by the officials elected by the citizens. It’s pretty outrageous.
This appears to be nothing more than an attempt to frighten the Board of County Supervisors into not following through on their adopted policies which will ensure that Prince William County does not provide public benefits to illegal aliens nor look the other way when an illegal alien is detained for a crime or traffic violation. It’s time to start piling on the Supervisors again to make them aware that citizens don’t particularly like to be bullied into having our laws conform to the interests of illegal aliens.
I sure hope than during the discovery process we can get a really close look at the ties that the Woodbridge Worker’s Committee and their parent organization, Mexicans Without Borders has with the Zapatista Army of National Liberation, why it’s failed to conform with state laws regarding the solicitation of charitable donations, and how it has violated IRS rules regarding the permitted activities of organizations registered under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. I’d also like to see if we can get some light shed on the following during this process:
- Did John Steinback unlawfully evade federal capital gains taxes when he filed a quitclaim deed on the house he had owned jointly with his now deceased wife?
- Why does John Steinbach have handicapped tags on his vehicle that were issued for his late wife?
- Did Ricardo Juarez commit fraud when filing a divorce petition against his first wife who resides in Mexico claiming that he didn’t have children, when in fact he does have children in Mexico according to a Washington Post article?
- Is Ricardo Juarez an illegal alien? In all of his filings related to his divorce and remarriage to a woman half his age, he has consistently indicated that he does not have a valid Social Security number.
- Is Mexicans Without Borders violating federal laws by employing Ricardo Juarez in reckless disregard to his immigration status?
Now that the Woodbridge Worker’s Committee (which Jeanette Rishell has raised money for in the past) and Mexicans Without Borders has decided to stick their necks out like this, we now have an opportunity to have attorneys delve into this shadowy organization that supports organizations that have engaged in terrorism in the past. This should be good.
UPDATE: The complaint they filed can be found here.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed.
245 Comments
Views: 3732
Loading ...
Things move pretty fast on the “Rocket Docket” of the Eastern District. Do you have a case No. so we can track developments?
How about that! Criminals can file a lawsuit so that they can avoid prosecution. Only in America.
One answer I am interested in from those that oppose this resolution: at what level of crime should police ask about immigration status, is it none, felonies, only violent crimes, where can we set the threshold and not have it be a “racist law”. Judging by those that oppose it apparently DUI’s and theft are tolerable crimes and deporting someone for being caught for them makes PW county racist. How about speeding by a school bus endangering children, this is a misdemeanor, but do we need people endangering our kids like this? How about drug dealing is it racist to say we have enough citizen drug dealer and don’t need them imported against our will, how about shoplifting, why do we need illegal immigrant shoplifters?
PWCHomeowner- The goal of MWB is total amnesty and nothing short of that will be good enough for them. They defend everyone, including criminals! Their ultimate goal is to socialize America. In order to do this they need the uneducated illegals as their followers.
I doubt we will see the plantiffs names in this law suit. The illegals are ALWAYS protected! This is sick.
Let your Supervisors know that maybe the LEGAL citizens will sue them if they vote not to fund the resolution. Two can play the game and MWB picked on the wrong county!
Of course the opposition group would contest PWC’s stance. The illegal community has been tutored on how to use our sacred Constitution, in the same vein that they have learned how to forge birth certificates, et al. This is an important test for our Board of County Supervisors, an opportunity, if you will, to prove to the legal citizens that America (PWC) is worth fighting for. Do you expect the Board to just roll over and be submissive to a rabid dog, or do you expect the Board to stand up in unity, and be counted on, to protect our community? I am for the latter; I pray they are too.
One can’t talk the talk without walking the walk. Sure, it’s gonna cost us to put these laws into practice, but think about the price of freedom. Priceless.
Since the BOCS has not yet enacted its bar on certain services to illegal aliens, this lawsuit is not yet ripe and should be thrown out by the court.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: peace of mind is worth any price!!
Besides, I really don’t think the cost is going to be that great. The estimate is something like 14.2 million over five years.
Yeah come to think of it this lawsuit may actually be the push some of our feet dragging board members need. Nobody likes to be pushed around, and I doubt even those opposed to this resolution want to look as if they are caving to these interests.
You can probably thank the County Staff’s Immigration Analysis for this lawsuit. The Immigration Analysis provided the necessary information and legal foundation for a number of possible lawsuits for those against the recommendation. For example, the Immigration Analysis, Slide 11 (as presented to the BOCS on 2 Oct 2007) is probably the foundation for ths suit in question. Slide 11 stated:
Equal Protection
The Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides:
Section 1.
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the
jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein
they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the
privileges and immunities of the citizens of the United States; nor shall any
State deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the
laws.”
The U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted the phrase “person within its
jurisdiction” to include illegal aliens, so they are entitled to equal protection just
as they are entitled to due process. Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982)
This is just one example. To get a feel for “what’s to come” go to
http://www.pwcgov.org/documents/bocs/agendas/2007/1002/6-A.pdf
and check out the Analysis of County Services presentation (particularly pages 7 to 20). County staff saved those opposed to the study and its recommendations both time and money by providing a thorough legal analysis of the issues.
Don’t count on a “win.” Just take a close look at the U.S. Patriot Act and you will discover that even suspected terrorists within our borders are protected by the Fourteeth amendment. Once they touch U.S. soil, they are considered “U.S. Persons.”
I’m guessing this is the basis for their initial salvo of litigation. It’s ironic that the BOCS Staff provided the Constitutional and case law for enough litigation to keep the County Attorney busy for years to come. I hope you weren’t planning on any new ball fields or libraries in PWC in the next few years because our tax dollars are going to be paying for new BMW’s and vacation homes for Immigration Law attorneys for a long time.
What about those pro-illegal groups “aiding and abetting”! We need to have that fact addressed too.
What about identity theft, stolen social security cards, double dipping benefits, etc.
ICE must keep up the good work. As I now type, ICE is making it’s presence known in our area and many are starting to get deported/locked up.
I don’t care if it’s 10 a day…It’s still a start!
I have heard that one cannot file a lawsuit anonymously. Any info on that?
Take a look at the MJM comment section under today’s “caravan” article - they stopped printing at 10 am with 4 pages of 99% of commenters supporting the Resolution.
Did you notice the headline to the ‘Caravan’ article. It’s now the Hispanic caravan/protest and not the Immigrant Caravan/Protest.
I agree with Kotoole! How can they file a lawsuit without their REAL names??? Are they hiding something? If so, ICE needs to go get them!
The million dollar question is….why are the “other” groups of people that are on the list of illegal alien countries of origin not crying out????
Why don’t the illegal put their efforts to heading south of the border, along with their “anchor babies”, and the illegal apologists too!
Once again a liberal San Francisco judge has blocked the Federal Government (Social Security and Homeland Security) from going after illegals and their employers. What a country!
A federal judge on Wednesday granted a request by labor and civil liberties organizations to temporarily block the U.S. government from proceeding with a plan to crack down on businesses who may be employing illegal immigrants.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/14248842/detail.html
Before everyone gets their panties in a twist, you might want to double-check your source, I just checked PACER and could find no such filings.
Mom
If I ever get a case number, I’ll be on it like a bum on a baloney sandwich.
Advocator on 10 Oct 2007 at 3:24 pm:
Or cockroaches on a buritto! (lol)
Anonymous on 10 Oct 2007 at 3:19 pm:
MJM has article re suit.
http://www.manassasjm.com/
cucurachas are a condiment, aren’t they?
I have a question concerning the costs of filing this suit.
Suppose 1,000 localities passed anti-illegal resolutions all at the same time, would these groups such as the Washington Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs, Howrey LLP and the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund have enough funds to sue every local government simultaneously?
Maybe these resolutions should all be done in unison.
Legal2 on 10 Oct 2007 at 3:39 pm:
YUMMIE!
I sure will be glad when this whole thing is all said and done. Brace yourselves for a big “I Told U So” over and over again. You really think you will get your victory? if you couldn’t get rid of all the other imigrants in the past, what makes you think you will succeed this time?
As a good friend of mine once said “Sois uma combada de porcos de duas caras, sem nada para fazer”
Enjoy!
“These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it Now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict the more glorious the triumph.”
- Thomas Paine, The Crisis - December, 1776
The residents of every locality in this country that has has been hit with a lawsuit by these scumbags from the aclu and the puertarican defense fund for standing up for our immigration laws should band together and hold a massive march on congress to have them enforce the law. I can see why the puertarican defense fund is involved. Back in the early 60’s when welfare was started, half of the puertorico ended up in Massachusetts because that state had the most benefits. A recent article was written about four generations in one family collecting welfare and not one family member has ever worked a day in their life. We may see the same thing coming down the road re the illegals. We will pay for illegal immigration one way or another.
Mom, just because you couldn’t find it on PACER doesn’t mean it hasn’t been filed. Even with ECF, it sometimes takes time for a new lawsuit to come up. I filed my first new lawsuit electronically a few months back, and initially, it was given a general case number (for all new suits) and within a few days, its permanent case number. ‘Til then, I couldn’t file subsequent documents (like a preliminary injunction motion).
“A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears no traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victim, and he wears their face and their garments and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared. The traitor is the plague.”
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Orator - 106-43 B.C.
Thank you, Anonymous. I needed a good dose of Western Civilization, something that is rare with all the “diversity” these days - the use of man’s reason is an important ingredient that made us (US) great!
hmmm….could this be happening here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War
After Mexico gained independence from the Spanish Empire at the end of its War of Independence in 1821, the Mexican Empire inherited the provinces of Alta California, Nuevo México, and Texas, from Spain. Weakened and virtually bankrupt from the war, the new government found it difficult to govern its northern territories, which were thousands of miles from Mexico City, the capital.
Seeking to better control the border region of Texas, which had few settlers, the Mexican government permitted a few hundred U.S. families to settle the area. This, however, led to settlement of Texas on a scale unanticipated by the Mexican government, as its inability to control the border allowed thousands more Americans to settle than had been agreed upon. English-speaking settlers quickly formed a majority in Texas.
http://www.prldef.org/Civil/Prince%20William/PWC_Complaint%20(FINAL%20Filed%20on%2010%2010%2007).pdf
here is the complaint in PDF from PRLDEF
Hickspanic — when you say “if you couldn’t get rid of all the other imigrants in the past, what makes you think you will succeed this time?” You are not understanding one very important thing. You confuse legal immigrants coming to share in the American Dream with law breaking illegal immigration.
You say we can’t get rid of imigrants (sic), but that is not the issue. We welcome immigrants to this country. Both of my parents were immigrants to this country — LEGAL immigrants who were seeking the American Dream…not “Free Riders” as many of my legal immigrant friends (who happen to be primarily from Mexico) have nicknamed them.
What we are fighting for is enforcement of the rule of law and requiring people who want to be a part of the American Dream, to follow the rules that the rest of us here (and our ancestors) must follow and honor as well.
Have you heard in America all human beings are treated EQUALLY under the law? Why do you insist on being a part of and promoter of this new “victim” class who would rather pick and choose which rules suit them and which are just too much trouble to bother following.
RetiredWildGoose,
According to your argument, ICE is an illegal entity because they deport aliens everyday. That is their job. Let’s not forget that it is a crime to enter the country illegally. I guess according to your logic we should let all criminals free.
Hickspanic,
Don’t open your mouth too wide because you may end up eating crow. (I’ll bet you don’t know what that means. Ha, Ha, Ha).
Yes, one can file a lawsuit anonymously. Most famous one — Roe v. Wade where Norma McCorvey was listed as “Jane Roe” to keep her identity anonymous.
Ok link too long, just go to
http://www.prldef.org
and click on Complaint
Re Patty about RetiredWildGoose
ICE is obviously fine since they are federal agents enforcing federal law.
I believe the county is fine too as long as the Police do not inquire into immigration status, but they take off their Police hat. Then put on an ICE hat, and then ask, “are you in this country legally”.
I am not kidding that should be perfectly legal, and I assume this is what their plan is.
I do not think one can be injured until they have actually arrested someone anyway.
Patty,
Actually, ICE must have probable cause to move. That’s the investigative part of their job. They must also provide due process. They (or we) could just as easily assume that you entered the country illegally without probably cause. This logic extends to all crimes.
Just ask any cop (or FBI agent).
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” Mark Twain
To segregate law enforcement into different compartments of law enforcement is ridiculous. I’ll repeat what I posted before, John Allen Mohammed and Lee Boyd Malvo committed federal crimes. Should the local police then have just sat back and twiddled their thumbs until the FBI apprehended them? And let us not forget 287g. Why in the world would Feds/Congress enact the 287g program if they didn’t want the local police force involved in helping apprehend illegal aliens? Why do we have a gang task force? Should we call Chief Dean and tell him that he shouldn’t go after MS13 and SUR13 because they are illegal aliens and it is a Federal issue?
It is the resposibility of all levels of government to protect the citizens. Someone obviously skipped government class.
PWCHomeowner,
Good point (re just asking the question); however, I’m asuming, as a U.S. person under the constitution, that they are protected by the Fifth Amendment (self-incrimination). I think Plyler v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982) probably applies.
I’m sure the Police can ask anything they want. I don’t think they (or we) have to answer.
PWCHomeowner on 10 Oct 2007 at 4:55 pm:
Where are the Illegal aliens cited in this? It says nothing about them in the sentence below?
“Indeed, enforcement will subject citizens, lawful permanent residents, and aliens with permission to be in the United States to unnecessary government intrusion and will violate their right to equal protection under the laws of the United States.”
Hickspanic, Falas pt tambem? estou impressionada.
Patty,
Emotionally, I certainly agree with you. Pragmatically, I’m a fan of the Constitution. When we talk about “them”, we are also talking about “us”. The question with topics such as this is, “whose next?”
Personally, I’m happy to live in a country with a Constitution that affords numerous, overlapping protections. These law enforcement agencies we talk about make a few too many honest mistakes as it is. Just look at how many death row inmates have been exonerated lately thanks to DNA evidence, for example.
To quote Winston Churchill, “”Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.” (from a House of Commons speech on Nov. 11, 1947)
We see the alternatives in the paper every day. No thanks.
“Why in the world would Feds/Congress enact the 287g program if they didn’t want the local police force involved in helping apprehend illegal aliens?”
This is why the COPunty will eventually prevail. 287G allows for the very action that PWCPD is taking. The injunction is a stalling tactic. The only hope they have at really stopping this is filing a suit regarding the actual application of the law. Until they can produce a party actually damaged by the application of law (not the fear of the application), the best they can hope for is to stall this.
The real goal of this is to scare the BOCS into backing down for fear of the costs of litigating this, much the same way that these groups scared the City of Manassas into backing off the family ordinance. I am hoping that the BOCS will look and see that they are standing on firm legal ground, and not get wobbly and weak-kneed.
Interesting complaint; sounds rather silly, at best it’s specious. Hope they start using the official verbiage, i.e., “illegal aliens” since they wouldn’t want to appear ignorant.
Since 287g is a federally-issued agreement, I think WWC should take it up with the feds, not PWC. It sounds to me like a Federal problem, very complicated and too difficult to fix.
The Washington Post website has just put up an article on this lawsuit.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/10/AR2007101001933.html?hpid=topnews
PS: Article quotes some of your favorite people, and says the plaintiffs are all PWC residents, including four “undocumented immigrants.”
This should get your blood boiling.
Bush versus Texas
The president is right to request review of the death sentences of Mexicans not afforded their rights.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/5201272.html
SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW ILLEGAL ALIENS HAVE LEGAL STANDING TO FILE SUIT AGAINST A JURISDICTION TRYING TO UPHOLD ESTABLISED FEDERAL AND STATE LAW!
Dear Screaming Ice, most of the plaintiffs are not illegal aliens.
Leila,
You obviously haven’t read the 42 pages of unadulterated bullsh*t. The majority of plaintiffs are illegals.
Rack, you are right, I haven’t read it. So what you are saying is the Washington Post reporter is mistaken. You should write to him and inform him of his mistatement. The email link is his byline.
they may be PW residents but that does not mean legal…….
Count of plaintiffs:
ILLEGALS: 7
TSP/LPR: 5 (DOES NOT MEAN U.S. CITIZEN)
LEGAL: 4
Four U.S. citizens out of 16 plaintiffs
Redawn, this is the graph from the Post that appears to be in error:
“Christina Guerola Sarchio, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, said the resolution violates the Constitution and that “people wanted to stand up and fight it.” The other 21 plaintiffs are all Prince William residents, including four undocumented immigrants.”
I guess in their haste to put it up, they made a mistake by suggesting only four are not legally in the US. Although some of the adults are representing US citizen children.
Rack, what you have mentioned means a majority of people in legal status, not illegal status since TSP is legal status. Are those the total number of plaintiffs? If so, then the Post’s claim of 22 is also wrong since your numbers don’t add up to that.
In any case, I don’t think there is any requirement of citizenship to bring a lawsuit is there?
I just emailed the author of the liberal rag WP article, as follows:
Correct your errors:
Plaintiffs opposed to the Illegal Alien Resolution in PWC:
ILLEGALS: SEVEN
TSP/LPR: FIVE (NOT US CITIZENS)
U.S. CITIZENS: FOUR
Thanks,
Allison
Leila:
I didn’t count the children.
Rack, ah, that explains it. Though the suit does and that would up the citizen total. Plus most are still not illegal. But it the Post said only 4 illegal and you found 7, then they should amend it before it runs in the paper tomorrow. I hope he sees it.
I just read the article:
Cesar Perales, president of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, said he was simply alerting Stewart that a lawsuit was coming. “It was not a threat,” he said. “He is not upholding the law. The fact is, he is being lawless.”
This man has the audacity to say that Corey Stewart is lawless? What a joke. Illegal aliens are lawless - they have no respect for our immigration laws or our country.
Question? If your roof was leaking what would you do, keep trying to clean up the floor or fix the roof? I think I would be inclined to fix the roof. If you are so all fired up about getting rid of the illegals then why don’t you put as much time and effort into pressing the Federal Government into sealing the borders or inacting immigration reform as you do bashing the Hispanics? Your efforts are wasted because the roof is still leaking. You make me laugh.
Just call me an apologist!!!!!!!
Just a curiosity…
To bring suit, don’t you have to show that you’ve been harmed? Further, Puerto Ricans ARE U.S. citizens, are they not? Ergo, what standing does the “Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund” have then?
FHL opined: “If your roof was leaking what would you do, keep trying to clean up the floor or fix the roof? I think I would be inclined to fix the roof.”
I believe a lot of us ARE trying to fix both. You see us trying to fixing the floor here because basically this is a blog for local PWC issues. That’s my take anyway.
“If you are so all fired up about getting rid of the illegals then why don’t you put as much time and effort into pressing the Federal Government into sealing the borders or inacting immigration reform…”
Again, a lot of us do.
“… as you do bashing the Hispanics?”
Sigh… ILLEGAL ALIENS!
“Your efforts are wasted because the roof is still leaking. You make me laugh.”
Glad you got some humor out of this. Quite a few folks here are apologists.
“Just call me an apologist!”
There ya go!
The Resolution is about illegal aliens. Somehow the MSF/WWC/UITC crowd continues to ignore that fact in order to stir up the uneducated, easily-led, emotionally-fed immigrants who trust these people. Guess it makes Sra. Lyall & Sr. Steinbach feel superior.
Es la ley, Many would argue that the PWC regulations will inevitably lead to racial profiling and the harassment of Latinos in general, whether citizens, legal residents, or illegal aliens. So the PR group has standing and future harm on that basis. I am speculating without having read the entire complaint, but I have read the press release on the PRLDEF website and racial profiling is mentioned.
In any case, I don’t think one has to show harm to *file*. The showing comes later doesn’t it?
Leila @ 7:55 pm — I read the complaint, and that is exactly what they are arguing — racial profiling. There are several legal citizens who fear racial profiling listed in the suit.
Leila:
Ah! So they seek an injunction on the resolution to prevent possible future harm until the court(s) can sort it all out. And the PR are involved because they feel they might be “racially profiled” with the county’s resolution even though they are U.S. citizens. I can understand their points.
Thanks Leila.
In the end, this is about $$$. Anyone know how deep the pockets are on the other side? Any big money backing them? That will determine how long and far this goes. IF they have the $$$, this could take a while… and cost us in kind.
Retiredwildgoose opined: “In the end, this is about $$$. Anyone know how deep the pockets are on the other side? Any big money backing them? That will determine how long and far this goes. IF they have the $$$, this could take a while… and cost us in kind.”
So who defends PWC at the level of that court? The county attorney? The State Attorney General? Just curious!
Quoting Gollum: You are tricksy webmaster Greg! I don’t see the connection you make about Steinback and Juaarez with the lawsuit. Are we going to hear about the other side too
How come that you have all the time of the wrold to go to all these meetings? I hope we can hear how you get all this money to fight against immigrants.
I hope we can find out how an ignorant person as Patriot can make racists comments an still be a patriot.
I hope we can see how groups such as HSM can support radical politicians just because they have decided not to become a not -for-profit organization.
Es la ley, the same Puerto Rican group is also involved in a lawsuit in New York. There were some really atrociously mishandled ICE raids in late September that involved dawn raids on the homes of citizens and legal residents of Latino descent in Long Island, guns drawn, etc. ICE was so bad, even the Nassau County police spoke out against them and accused them of putting police officers in danger. So something to look forward to in your jurisdiction.
FHL: As far as I’m concerned fixing the roof means sending the illegals back to their countries. It also means build the fence, pronto.
This is all about money.
How much I’m losing on my home.
How much of my tax dollars have to go to pay for locals to do things the FEDs WON”T LET THEM DO but they try anyway and get sued.
How much of my money now to pay for a lawsuit submitted by illegals who aren’t losing a dime on this.
How much will the county lose in potential economic development thus not increasing commercial tax base.
How much my children are losing on future incomes due to lower standards in the schools.
What’s left for us to do - secede?
Z, what is your definition of radical politician? The BOCS is not asking for anything other than what the law allows. You don’t appear to be assimiliated.
The BOCS are simply doing the jobs that Congress doesn’t want to do!!
“What’s left for us to do - secede?”
It’s happened before.
Secede - This time it might work. I’m almost serious. This almost fits the DHS definition of terrorism.
es_la_ley
Re, “So who defends PWC at the level of that court? The county attorney? The State Attorney General? Just curious!”
I assume the County Attorney’s office will defend. I also assume they will need outside help for the Constitutional and immigration issues. This is way beyond what the County Attorney is used to dealing with.
That’s why I’m hoping the other side doesn’t have any big $$$ backers.
I find it interesting that the blurbs about each of the plaintiffs show how many own rental properties, despite the fact that they are illegal. Several are complaining about losing money. One of them spoke of multiple tenants.
How can you buy a house without a legal social security number? How can you get a legal social security number if you are an illegal alien? Yet our county is getting sued.
I feel like I am setting up a bad syllogism here.
Something is fundamentally wrong with this picture.
Zapata - I don’t know where the money is coming from, but Help Save Herndon spent ca $25,000 (twentyfivethousand) during the 2006 Town Council election in order to oust the last TC, which got the day laborers off the streets. The amount is not made up by me but was quoted by one of the leaders of HSH who lives in Loudoun county and works very closely with Tom Tancredo. Same person was cyber spokesperson for Pat Buchanan when he ran for president.
It used to be that running for election in Herndon would cost a few thousand dollars at most. There’s money to be had, but I have o idea from where it’s coming. THE SAVIOURS of the whole of Virginia have connections, for sure.
Hickspanic,
It was true and 1919 and it is true today. There is a difference between today and earlier immigrants. In the word of Teddy
Roosevelt. ASSIMILATE, honor our cultures and our laws which includes coming to this country legally.
Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907 1919. Emphases added.
“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also (note from Scott: take for instance African-American, Asian-American…) isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt, 1907 1919
Dolph, I would think there should be plenty of discovery needed in order for the plaintiffs to answer basic questions of PWC, such as were their houses zoned for rental properties, where are their records & license, how much did they pay in rental (business) taxes, etc., including federal, state & local taxes.
“That’s why I’m hoping the other side doesn’t have any big $$$ backers.”
It doesn’t matter Retiredwildgoose, if the County does it the way Manassas Park has been doing things. They have had the biggest and most expensive law firms in Virginia working to bring down little old David Ruttenberg and the Rack n’ Roll, including McQuire, Woods, and Battle (I believe they are now McQuire, Woods, Battle, and Boothe). Guess who’s been paying for that (just ask Park’d)?
sorry…including producing their federal, state & local tax returns.
The cases in the complaint (Janes&Johns) appear as though they could be “hypothetical” - how does one ensure that they are bona fide individuals being represented?
I think Jane and John Does are being used to hide their true identities so that private citizens won’t form their on vendettas.
Maybe so, but there should be something in the system that ensures that these “situations” aren’t fictitious - they just sound like scenarios as described in the complaint.
Remember, roe v. wade was also fictitious.
In case you are unfamiliar, the plaintiff was real, the testimony/case was fictitious: “Since the landmark Supreme Court decision, Norma McCorvey gave birth to her child, and Sandra Bensing never had an abortion. Both of these women have also come forward to admit that their testimony was false. In 1987, McCorvey told Washington Times columnist Carl Rowan that the Roe decision was based on false testimony. She admitted that her account of being raped in 1969 was a fabrication designed to invalidate the law. Instead, she confessed that she had become pregnant by her boyfriend.
Sandra Bensing also filed a request in early January of this year asking the Georgia Supreme Court to review her case. She told the Atlanta-Journal Constitution that she approached an attorney seeking assistance to secure legal custody of her children. The attorney told her that she would like her to be the plaintiff in a case challenging the Georgia state law banning abortion, and she agreed.
She stated that she never needed an abortion, and has never received one since the decision. “This could destroy the legal foundation for Roe vs. Wade,” said Joan Moseley, a spokesperson for the plaintiff. “We believe we have discovered fraud, but we are protecting the plaintiff because she has been getting harassed by pro-abortion groups.”
Bensing said during the abortion case that much of her life was in a “daze” and that she was examined twice at psychiatric hospitals. “I just had a really tremendous emotional stress on me. It was a hell I was living through.” She described herself “like a little puppy on a leash. Wherever I thought anybody was going to help me, I would follow along.”
http://forerunner.com/forerunner/X0474_Roe__v._Wade.html
Leila on 10 Oct 2007 at 7:03 pm:
The WP is never mistaken. Just ask them!
es_la_ley on 10 Oct 2007 at 7:40 pm:
Yes, they are citizens but pay no repeat pay no federal taxes. They are a territory of the U.S. That have voted in the past not to become a state (they would have to pay taxes if they did.)
Peace on 10 Oct 2007 at 8:13 pm:
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, speaks like a duck…..
Anonymous, Are you giving your own opinion on the Post? It appears you are pretending to suggest I said something like what you say. If so, you are extraordinarily unethical. I never said anything of the kind at 7:03 or any other time. In fact I said the opposite and urged RACK to write to the reporter for a correction. I would never say any media outlet, or any human being for that matter, was never mistaken.
Anonymous, at 11:08 pm. That is a very racist statement.
The people I am speaking of in the complaint are Puerto Ricans or other nationals who are naturally citizens or who DID BOTHER to become citizens. They have as much right to the use of our constitution as we have. Remember, our ancestors were also immigrants; some of them, such as Irish Catholics, were treated much the same as these legal people of brown skin are now being treated.
Retiredwildgoose on 10 Oct 2007 at 9:25 pm:
This is basically the same situation that occured in Hazleton, PA. Same type of lawsuit (unamed plaintifs), the aclu and the puerto rican defense and education fund were involved. Hazleton lost the first round and the case is on appeal. The mayor said they will take it to the Supreme Court if that’s what it takes. Maybe that is the only way this can be settled. Congress is not going to do anything.
Leila on 10 Oct 2007 at 11:17 pm:
Do you really believe that reporter would say he made a mistake? Don’t think so.
Leila and Krutis,
Eat dookie. You are nothing but illegal alien appologists. I think you are Nancy Layall and John Steinbach. Really. Especially you Leila. You write just like Lyall speaks. Insipide little whiney tone. Why don’t you just say it. You are a commie socialist who hates this country because you can’t compete, and you ended up as disgruntled LOSERS. You want to bring in an underclass so you can feel superior. Why? I don’t know. Maybe Daddy didn’t love you enough, and didn’t praise you when you got a “B” on your science project. But you advocate for opening up the doors, letting these people in, and want us, hardworking Americans to pay for it. Admit it. Don’t hide your agenda.
Anonymous, Newspapers run corrections and clarifications columns every day and some specify if something is a reporting error. I have also seen occasions when writers for publications acknowledge errors in a new piece, in response to a letter to the editor, etc. Then there are ombudsmen who also address errors, and finally on news websites I see corrections everyday attached visibly to the existing story specifying where the error occurred.
I don’t know why that reporter would be exempt from the Post corrections column if it could indeed be shown he made a mistake. You haven’t offered any evidence for your view other than an apparent bias against reporters. I do not know if the Post is wrong. Rack’s count was incomplete. She said she didn’t count the children. However I think anyone who thinks a Post reporter has a fact wrong should contact the writer, or the corrections column, or the ombudsman. Or all three.
Peace on 10 Oct 2007 at 11:19 pm:
My comment was not meant to be racist. I was just trying to make a point. Law enforcement needs to have some profiling to do their job. If law enforcement is looking for a bank robber, female, 5′0″ tall, grey hair and walks with a limp, do you think they are going to look at every person over 6′0″, male with blond hair?
PS: Or comment directly on the article online, an option for anyone on most Post articles.
I have to say I am so happy to see such a group of intelligent people, so passionate about this issue, and so passionate about their country. It makes my heart swell, and I feel so proud to be an American right now.
I hope that every one of you here will go to the BOCS meeting on the 16th and speak from your heart. Prepare a speech. Talk from your heart. Speak of tradition and family and your pride in your home, your neighborhood. Speak of Christmas and Halloween and how they are both a dying American tradition.
Speak of God and Country and how they are also being pushed out of every conversation to allow for diversity and multi-culturalism.
I say it’s time to stop the onslaught of outsiders who thing we owe them something because they are addicted to our culture, but have no desire to embrace it or respect it.
They knew the risk in coming here. They also knew that one day it could/would end. But along the way, they’ve made us feel bad for second guessing why they are here. It’s for us that they come. It’s for us
and our homes and our Indians and our Slaves and whatever tear-jerk words they can come up with to make us think that they have single-handedly saved America from itself.
We’ve been silent for way too long, and they have set off a firestorm within by sticking it in our faces and demanding we comply to their “threats” of how our country will die without them.
Well, I’m ready to die for my Country before I will let you kill it. In the meantime, this is our intervention to your addiction, that’s all. And just like an addict, you become belligerent and hostile when told you can’t have anymore.
Well said, NA, so come and say it on 10/16 @ 2 and 7:30 pm to the BOCS and bring people. Even if you are not from PWC. The illegals have people speak there who are from DC and the environs. Stand up and be counted!
Wow, I like Ice, you seem to know a lot about me, don’t you? “commie socialist who hates this country”; “can’t compete ended up as LOSERS”! As for feeling superior; 99.99% of the time I don’t, but I must say that once in a while I do, especially after reading your comment. So inane.
http://www.smartbusinesspractices.com/pilot/
If you need work done, you can use the link above to check out whether or not a business uses the E-Verify system to prevent illegal aliens from getting hired.
Greg,
While I haven’t read the Complaint, I’m pretty sure that the questions you ask in your post would be considered outside the scope of discovery under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
Billy Boy, thank you for that quoate, believe it or not i lived up to that belief, i came here as an illegal, i was raised as an illegal, but i later was given citizenship. To me America is my home and my country, those words came out of my mouth, and given the opportunity i know a very large percentage of people willing to do the same thing, i and many others have done for so long.
You break the law you suffer the consequences, it has always been like that, nothing has changed. Anybody who comes to this country and never adapts the American culture and language i would agree with all of you in saying they don’t belong here.
Get rid of Welfare, Medicaide, Food Stamps, etc. see how many US Born Citizens will take to the streets and protest, But you won’t because you are ashamed face the truth.
Everyone keep up the pressure. In the Post today, Fairfax County now is another jail that will work with the ICE and it’s becoming a snowball effect. 33 local agencies (mostly in county jails) have formed partnerships with ICE and 70 more local agencies have requested to do so additionally. Mecklenburg County in NC, has placed 2,839 people into deportation hearings in less than 2 years.
Keep up the goodwork!
Also, let the jobs dry up and the illegals will leave. They can’t speak English, cannot work in the IT field (nor would they be hired
) so no jobs means no illegals!
LMFAO! You know if i’m considered an illegal mexican despite the fact that my primary language is english and i ain’t got no accent, Mr. Angry here is really working very hard to earn his stereotype classification name so what will it be, would you rather be called a coconut or oreo, i preffer i like oreo but it’s your choice not mine.
What’s going through your head? people in the IT field don’t need their houses built, maitained, their food cooked, and dishes washed. The day you see an illegal applying for a job in the IT field, is the day we no longer speak english, and have some dictator sitting there in that beautiful house in D.C.
I just heard at least ten people activate the “ignore” button on Hickspanic. Just keep it on …
Ignore me, that’s all you can do, because like you i also have a voice, and it’s that ignorance of yours that will never allow you to achieve your goals.
For those people that “need” their houses built/fixed/maintained, their food cooked, and dishes washed…be sure to stop by: http://www.smartbusinesspractices.com/pilot/
to make sure the company does not hire illegals.
Thanks for the link, Patriot - I’ve already forwarded it on to friends.
Re Anonymous on 10 Oct 2007 at 11:21 pm
Don’t forget Valley Park, NO and Riverside, NJ. The Hazleton, PA ruling and numerous lawsuits caused Riverside to re-think and rescind their laws against illegal immigrants. If we lose (and I don’t think I’ve seen anyone win), we pay the plaintiffs’ legal fees (in addition to our own).
I agree with Angry Blackman!’s free market approach (Angry Blackman! On 11 Oct 2007 at 8:33 am). When the jobs dry up, “they” will stop coming. In fact, the jobs are drying up due to the changing climate in the housing market. This gives us a breather to work with the Feds. I am very much in favor working with ICE and the Feds and am gratified that ICE appears to be responding to public pressure to take action. I also think 287g is the right thing to do at the Community (and preferably State) level. With elections coming up, I suspect that PWC’s (and others) initiatives in the area of illegal immigration have helped motivate ICE. I also think Tom Davis might just re-think his priorities since he wants John Warner’s seat in the Senate (and I hope you are all contacting him.) Perhaps a constituent visit to his office on the hill is in order?
My opinion: I strongly favor action to address the illegal immigration problem and get ALL of the illegals out of our community (by ALL, I’m referring to the occasional terrorist in our midst who blends in, doesn’t hang signs, and keeps a very low profile); however, I think that the BOCS is out if their element getting involved in this issue. I am not against prudent BOCS action; however, I believe that they are moving too fast and not performing what I would consider necessary due diligence to minimize the risk of litigation to the County (and the associated tax increases and service compromises that will come to pay for their mistakes). The 16th of October is not a magic number (other than convenient for the political expediency for some members of the BOCS). It took us years to get into this mess. I would advise a bit of patience so we can get out of this mess gracefully… and not leave the County’s budget in ruin as the price of expediency.
It’s like juggling chain saws… not something amateurs should do. When it comes to getting involved in illegal immigration policy, the BOCS clearly consists of amateurs.
“The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out for himself without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitable he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is apt to spread discontent among those who are.” H.L. Mencken
I disagree. The BOCS needs to move forward now! The lawsuits will ALWAYS be a factor. Do you really think that the ACLU and groups like them are going to go away? We will NOT be bullied by criminal invaders and their supporters.
I think this lawsuit will get about as far as the Chapman-Gill suit against BVBL. It will get some press. People will talk about it. Pro-illegals will make false comparisons to other lawsuits, in other jurisdictions that passed laws that look nothing like the PWC laws. In the end, it is a restatement of Federal and State law, is supported by Federal and State law, and will be upheld by Federal and State law. The only thing the opposition can do is to try and find someone actually harmed by the law, actually profiled, actually falsely accused, someone who has had their rights violated by the government. Plyer v. Doe stated that illegal aliens are not a protected class of people. There is no mention of race or ethnicity in the resolution, or the general order. Chief Deane was very careful when he drafted it, just as the supervisors were careful when they crafted the original resolution. Delay implementation? Maybe the opposition will be successful on this. Rescind it? Doubtful. The citizens want this too much for their elected officials to be “cowed” by the pro-illegal crowd. That the pro-illegal crowd is made up of “Latino advocates” is merely symptomatic of the portion of Hispanics who are indeed illegal.
I must also question whether or not the plaintiffs will have standing with the court, considering that the 287G program, State and Federal benefits programs are established law that has not been challenged, and form the basis of the legal justification of the resolution. Since these plaintiffs who are in the country illegally are subject to US immigration law, which localities can enforce under 287g, as well as not being eligible for certain Federal and State benefits, how can they claim that their rights have been violated? Also, since those plaintiffs who are in the country legally cannot be deported under 287G, and (with proof) cannot be denied public services, how can they claim that their rights have been violated either. Having an irrational fear of something is not a violation of your rights. Some people are afraid of the dark. Do they have standing to sue the night, because they are afraid?
Perhaps someone more versed in this type of law could comment.
Patriot,
I certainly respect your opinion. The ACLU and groups like them are not going to go away… I would just prefer that we didn’t give them an excuse to sue us.
One of my problems with the Immigration Analysis is that it’s “the only trick we have.” The BOCS painted us in this corner when they requested it. Because they have no other alternatives available, they feel compelled to move forward with this to answer constituents such as you. I long for real leadership on the BOCS… someone to stand up and say, “perhaps this isn’t the best course… perhaps we need to consider alternatives.” They just don’t make leaders like Reagan and Kennedy anymore.
I see many people commenting that they are willing to pay any price to solve this issue. I’m not one of those people. I think there’s a better way.
I don’t want this issue to become PWC’s Iraq.
Hickspanick does have a right to his opinion even though we all know the saying about opinions. When you break a law, there are consequences and in this case, the illegals have broken laws. Mr. Hickspanic, I’m not trying for a stereotype but what I want is for those who come here to do so legal and learn English, blend in like the LEGAL immigrants did in the past. It’s sad that the PWC school system has been dumbed down all because of illegals and visit any elementary school and see how many kids in a classroom sit and just smile while the class is held up because “Pedro” can’t speak English!
Do you think Americans could do the samething (sneak into Mexico/South American) and set up shop? Hell no they couldn’t.
Finally…ONCE AGAIN if the jobs keep drying up, these illegals will leave!!!!!
Interesting (per the WPost today) that Fairfax will now be checking immigration status in the jails. I guess that county has always been in a kind of fence sitting position between the PWC approach and the more don’t ask, don’t tell policy here in Arlington. But Fairfax seems to be having it both ways, officials will demand the status, but then they will still release people with no assurance they will show up for a deportation hearing. So they allow themselves to look tough, but really provide a major loophole.
I would also argue that the Bush administration isn’t all that unhappy to have a federal judge block the no-match letters campaign since business opposes it. They can make the gesture toward enforcement, but not bring economic calamity. Smart.
First of all it takes maybe a few weeks for a new student from another country to come and learn the language.
ESL is a goverment funded program used to keep these students below their own abilities to catch up to the rest of the students. Every year i get the same letter from school “your children need to participate in ESL” Why? because their last name is Perez, Rodriguez, Fernandez, etc. My kids perfectly good english because that’s what i speak to them at home, like a so called normal American family.
Why waste money on ESL, the students will learn english on their own.
Why waste money on any person who is healthy and able to work for what ever they need, there should be no goverment aid unlees you are a senior citizen or some poor helpless mentally challenged individual.
Everybody else should work for all of their needs.
Leila, what economic calamity are you referring to?
Hickspanic on 11 Oct 2007 at 8:51 am:
I am 70 years old. I do the maintenance on my home, cut my own grass, cook my own food, and in earlier days, took care of my children (no nannies.) If the day comes (and it will) when I can no longer do what I am doing now, it will not be an illegal who will get my money. Thank you.
I agree with Hicks on this one. No ESL. No foodstamps, etc. (at least not long term…more than one year).
Hickspanic- Regarding esl, what ARE you smoking? Learning a new language is difficult for any school age kid when that language is not the child’s first language. This difficulty is compounded when the child will soon be expected to perform on the same English test that native speakers are taking.
Dolph, they should not be in the same class if they cannot speak English. The parents should be responsible for helping them to learn the language. I buy my own language learning items and I take the time to study on my own.
…it will not be an illegal who will get my money. Thank you.
What money, if you are doing all these things on your own, it’s obvious you don’t have any money to spend on having it done for you, If you reffer to the social security money you have invested in so many many years, let me remind you, Illegals are not elligible to receive these benefits. So if you are worried about your piggy bank full of niclkles and dimes i suggest you donated to some charity group, if you do have a small or large fortune do what the rest of the wealthy people do, leave a will, a trust, whatever. But trust me when your time comes, and it will you can rest easy that no illegal will receive your fortune, what ever amount it might be.
If you don’t want ESOL classes and you don’t want them in classes with those who speak English, where do you want them? Them = non-English speaking students?
Patriot, Sorry, I should have specified. The calamity warned of by the US Chamber of Commerce and the many business interests party to the federal suit. They have some notion that businesses’ having to fire millions of people within 90 days of receiving the no-match letters might cause a crisis, particularly in such industries as agriculture, where illegal aliens are a quarter of the workforce, and there is no likelihood of finding replacements any time soon. But also in other sectors. There were some interesting charts today in the paper about which industries would be most affected. All I was saying is the Republican Party is the party of business and the fact that Chertoff makes noises of disappointment, but only says DHS is considering an appeal (a process that apparently could take 9 months) suggests to me the Administration doth protest too much.
Dolph, they can be in a remedial class until they gain appropriate proficiency. It makes NO sense to slow up a regular class at the expense of the proficient students.
Retiredwildgoose on 11 Oct 2007 at 10:20 am:
What other alternatives are available? The local and state governments that have tried to “do the right thing” have been stymied at every turn either by the aclu or whacko judges who don’t give a damn about the law and only push their own agendas. They are supposed to rule on the law, not make it!
Leila, their argument has no merit. If they got rid of the illegal employees, it would force the businesses to start playing more fairly (providing wages that are consistent with our general economy). Once the wages are increased, they will get employees. Look at the meat packing plant situation. They had no problem getting legal workers.
What if there are no remedial classes? You cant have some 12 year old sitting in a first grade class. I believe that an education system should educate children. If they don’t know English, then teach them English. I see nothing wrong with an ESOL class that teaches anyone to speak, read and write English.
I disagree. Remedial classes don’t have to be grade specific.
The Patriot on 11 Oct 2007 at 10:55 am:
I have been told (although I cannot personnaly confirm it), that
a number of the parents of ESL students do not have a command of their own language and cannot even read or write in their primary language. How can we expect them to help their kids. This past Monday some immigrant parents called one of the local schools to find out why the school bus did not pick up their kids for school. Notices were sent home with every kid (in English and Spanish) that there was no school on Monday (Columbus Day.)
I disagree on your second point too! Parents should be responsible for teaching their children a language. We are in America. We speak English. If you come here…you are responsible for learning English. Why should our tax dollars be tied up for this??? That is just another “socialized” program is it not?
Anon…and how is that our problem? If a child can learn a language and adult surely can!
Honestly, there are is so much misinformation here that it is difficult to know where to start.
According to the ‘Angry Blackman’ we should want the jobs to dry up. “Finally…ONCE AGAIN if the jobs keep drying up, these illegals will leave!!!!!”
Yikes! Sounds like you didn’t get a quality education and I bet it’s not the illegal’s fault. Listen, jobs drive the economy. BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) releases the employment/unemployment numbers which are important economic indicators. Personally, my concern is that Americans are becoming too much of a ’service’ or ‘consumer’ driven economy and there is very little production of goods done here. But, regardless - let’s not stifle job creation.
Jobs done by legal workers drive our economy. Illegal workers cost more. During the Senate hearings on amnesty they determined illegals are a net overall loss in terms of what they pay into our system vice what they take out of our system (1:3) ratio. That is not good for our economy.
I cannot think of a single major immigrant group, historically, who taught their children English. Many immigrants never learned English and relied on their children to do the ‘family talking.’ The same thing appears to be happening with today’s immigrants.
I continue to support ESOL classes that teach students English communication skills. If there are classes that have other agendas, I will evaluate these on a case by case basis. I don’t see education as a social program. It has been around way too long and has outgrown that moniker.
I have no objection to ESOL classes provided by the PWC school system for children of LEGAL immigrants. I think that all of us posting to this blog who oppose the illegal alien invasion have said that we support the traditional vision of the US as a melting pot for immigrants, with everyone having English as their common language.
The problem arises when mobs of illegals show up at the schools and divert resources away from providing a quality education for kids from legal families. The illegals also crowd the ESOL classes for the legal immigrants and slow their progress toward integrating into US society.
As I’ve written in threads on BVBL before, US taxpayers should not be expected to pay to educate the children of anyone from anywhere who can manage to sneak in here. People from other countries should either work out the problems at home (such as corruption and economic mismanagement in Mexico) to improve their quality of life there, or take their place in line to apply to come to the US legally with the others in foreign countries who respect our laws.
Patriot, I didn’t think you would agree. I simply stated the argument the US chamber of Congress and other business interests are giving. I also think they would argue some sectors such as agriculture can go into crisis very quickly if a quarter (or vastly more) of its workforce disappears. There would not be time to take the steps you suggest. That is even if you could suddenly find a very large number of people willing to labor in the fields and harvest crops that need to be harvested immediately or they will rot. I should note that I was wrong about saying a quarter of the ag workforce. The statistic in the Post today from the Pew center was 29%, which appears to be a very cautious low. The WSJ on 10/1 cited as many as 70 % in agriculture are illegal.
Eeek, I meant Chamber of Commerce of course. Typo.
Hickspanic on 11 Oct 2007 at 10:56 am:
Read the entire comment and not selective portions. Or are you RETRASADO MENTAL?
Leila, our agriculture businesses use the same nonsense arguments as any other businesses. BooHOOO! They will solve their problems by increasing the wages for legal workers. The wage increase takes all but one second to implement.
Actually, I do recall reading about when the Germans came in large numbers and wanted everything to be in German, they were told NO. What happened next? They learned English and now are fully assimilated. Wow! What a concept!
Meanwhile, what do you do about the school situation when the Supreme Court has ruled that ALL children will be educated?
Dolph, that decision needs to be revisited (and possibly changed due to the large amount of illegals taking advantage of it).
I did Pendejo! if at seventy you are capable of doing all that, chances are you will die while active and mowing the grass.
If for some other it can no longer be done, everybody has a choice of who we hire to do our work.
I will not pay legal citizens of this country three times more and wait twice as long to get the job done. That’s what it all comes down to.
Anonymous,
I believe I answered this question for you a few days ago in another post; however, I’ll try again. Right now I would recommend a regional solution consisting of Federal and State Congressmen, State & County Police & Sheriffs Departments, existing groups addressing Homeland Security and regional law enforcement coordination, and County BOCS (in actually, senior staff from all of the above). This would be a great leadership opportunity for PWC to leverage its national exposure on this issue and an alternative to the current course of action. (IMHO) A narrowly focused local solution isn’t the answer. We need expertise beyond the County level. We need access to National level intelligence, regional cooperation, and State & Federal law enforcement assets. We need to consider other related illegal immigrant threats such as terrorists living in our community quietly planning to blow up Potomac Mills during the Christmas holidays (for example). This isn’t a simple problem. It’s a complex, legal issue that has evolved with the encouragement of legal citizens and local businesses for years. It will take time, resources, and leadership to fix.
I would like to see a real, workable long term solution that endures vice something that gets us past the next election and dies. Approval of a resolution means nothing. Implementation means everything. After the election, leverage to see any of this actually implemented goes away.
Meanwhile, before all this takes place, what should be done? I don’t see a major shift in law any time soon.
Hicks…I don’t know where you live, but in PWC….the prices of things are no different to the consumer. Everyone complains that the prices will go higher if we get rid of illegals. That is BS. The cost savings from so-called “cheap labor” are only realized by the businesses themselves…NOT the consumer. If you work out the numbers for materials and labor it is easy to see the scam!
Well Patriot, I think your comment about a simple one second fix tells us all we need to know about your knowledge of agricultural economics and the available labor market. No need to type it. I know. You stand by your words.
Uhh…..what? A person’s wage can be changed on a moments notice. What are you talking about???
Anonymous,
“I showed you mine” a couple of times, what do you see as the solution for a path forward? Do you support implementing the resolution before the board?
Enforcing the law and cracking down on employers who hire illegals may cause some short-term economic disruptions. However, the free market can deal with this. Agricultural producers, in the short-term, will have to pay higher wages. Their costs will rise, they will produce less, and we will face higher prices for some agricultural products. However, exporters in other countries will increase their supplies to the US to exploit the higher prices, and thus help keep those prices from rising too high.
Keep in mind also, that only producers of produce (i.e., fruits and vegetables) rely heavily on immigrant labor. Our large agricultural producers (i.e., grains, soybeans) are heavily mechanized and rely on capital equipment and technology much more than on labor (immigrant or otherwise).
That takes us to the next point. Rising labor costs will force producers to invest in and develop new technologies. As these technologies and capital equipment come on line, productivity will improve, costs will drop, and those LEGAL employees will enjoy much higher incomes than industries relying on illegal labor can pay anyone today.
Remember your US history. In the pre-war South, plantation owners accumulated incredible wealth using slave labor to harvest cotton. The vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves. In fact, the slave labor was so cheap for the wealthy few, compared to hiring free labor, the free labor could not compete and remained in relative poverty. After the abolition of slavery, agricultural production (including cotton) had to adjust, develop new technologies, and pay labor a more fair share of the proceeds of their production. Productivity grew, and with it output and wages, as costs declined. Poverty among free labor whites and freed slaves remained serious but both groups were better off than during the days of slavery. Those who suffered most were the wealthy who could no longer exploit slave labor.
The same is true today. Some grow wealthier exploiting illegal labor to the disadvantage of legal US citizens and residents who are struggling to support their families. The system works so well for them that they are willing to provide political contributions all the way from the White House to the PWC BOCS to keep it going. The government refuses to enforce immigration laws, corporations (i.e., big developers in PWC) get cheap, illegal labor, and the rest of us pay the price.
End this system of the government refusing to enforce our immigration laws, as slavery was ended in the 19th century, and the same will happen. New technologies will emerge and LEGAL US citizens and residents will enjoy much higher standards of living.
Oh…and if you are referring to the business having to take the time to keep the books in a legal format…TOOOOOOO BAD!!!!! They deserve to go belly up if they were hiring illegals to begin with!
Retiredwildgoose on 11 Oct 2007 at 12:08 pm:
The the that will most affect the situation is Enforce the Law!
There are enough laws on the books regarding immigration (both legal and illegal) that if they were enforced we would see a good portion of the problems with illegals dissapate. No one in the government wants meaningful enforcement.
Absolutely, I support implementing the resulution before the board. It may not totally resolve the problem but at least someone is trying and not passing the buck by saying it is only a “Federal problem.” That is a cop-out!
Hey, mari…, please get off the computer and get my burgers. I’ve been in this drive-thru for over five minutes.
Anonymous said on 11 Oct 2007 at 12:22 pm:
Hey, mari…, please get off the computer and get my burgers. I’ve been in this drive-thru for over five minutes.
THAT WAS FOR HICKSPANIC!
Patriot, I am talking about the fact that you think:
1. There is a massive available workforce for agriculture labor just waiting for a doubling or tripling of wages so they can move immediately to the farming areas, take the places of the up to 70% illegal workforce, and start work in the fields in time that harvests won’t be ruined.
2. That all farmers have the capital to double or triple wages to attract this workforce.
This is not to mention the myriad other ways, direct and indirect, that a loss of up to 70% of agricultural labor would affect the American economy for both producers and consumers. But apparently for you, there is no impact, no crisis. Money is there, workers are there, in the land of the Patriot, a stroke of a pen adjusting wages is all that is needed.
Hickspanic on 11 Oct 2007 at 11:51 am:
Remember, you get what you pay for!
Enjoy your burger, don’t let the spit, pubic hair, or the roaches get in the way of your appetite for ignorant comments.
Anonymous said on 11 Oct 2007 at 12:19 pm
Anonymous, I absolutely agree with you re enforcing the law.
I don’t agree re implementing the resolution before the board. I’m guessing it will “pass” (like the police resolution) and never be funded. While I fear risk to the County in terms of liability and lawsuits, I actually think that risk will never come to pass. Stewart needs to compromise with the fiscal conservatives who worry about how we are going to pay for things and share my fears re litigation. I’m guessing the resolution that you see passed will have few teeth (no more Bluebird buss rides for the elderly, for example) followed by little emphasis on implementation (after the election) due to lack of funds and shifting priorities. I think everyone knows we are being played (and well, I might add).
While I agree that it isn’t only a “Federal problem”, those laws you would like to enforce are mostly Federal laws.
Zapata is a disgruntled illegal alien….he will NEVER assimilate let alone become a U.S. citizen . I was at a local supermarket a couple days ago and at check-out there was a Hispanic woman “paying” for her loot with W.I.C. vouchers. I asked the cashier how I could get the goverrnent to pay for my food and she said you have to be a woman and in crisis ( she didn’t LOOK in crisis). She said MOST of the W.I.C. and food stamp recipients are Hispanic. The cashier mentioned that she has had encounters with several of them with “attitudes”. Our tax dollars at work!
I am changing the subject, which may welcome to some posters. It occurred to me, regarding the injunction against Homeland Security. The problem is apparently there are some errors in the system that legal people hear have names that don’t match numbers etc. Wouldn’t a legal person want to find out about this and fix it, so that their payments in the system are accurately associated with them, so that when they retire they can collect the appropriate amount of money? If my boss told me that he got a letter from the government that said my SS # was wrong, I would want that fixed ASAP.
I can’t tell if our whole government is inept or that they just would rather appear inept instead of enforcing the laws.
*I* would want to know if there were issues with my social security number. Silly me.
Concerned on 11 Oct 2007 at 12:08 pm:
agree with you whole heartedly. The reaper made it possible to eleminate the hand picking of cotton.
Cyrus McCormick (1809-84), American inventor and manufacturer. Cyrus Hall McCormick was born in Rockbridge County, Virginia. In 1831 he invented the first successful reaping machine. The technical innovations in this machine contributed greatly to the development of modern agriculture and have been included in every successful reaper manufactured since. At first McCormick’s machines were produced in small lots for local use in Virginia. In 1847 he built a factory in Chicago and began the large-scale manufacture of reapers. He introduced his reaper into Europe in 1851. McCormick continued to improve the machine, patenting inventions such as the self-rake and twine binder.
Leila, you obviously don’t know how a business is run. There are general principles that all businesses use to operate. Your “labor shortage” argument is ridiculous. There would be workers willing to do the job for higher pay (low pay is what is keeping them from going after the jobs). From the farmers perspective, they know what they are doing (just like all the other businesses that use “cheap illegal labor” know). Less pay equals bigger profits in their own pockets. No cost savings to the consumer. I addressed this concept above. These farmers have gotten away with their “shady activities” for so long they are not used to thinking outside of the box! Of course they are going to make every excuse in the book. Their “gravy train” due to cheap illegal labor is being called out.
Hickspanicon 11 Oct 2007 at 12:32 pm:
Are you saying the hard workers at MickeyDee’s are doing that to the food they serve? If that is the case, perhaps you sould make a formal complaint to your manager.
i’ll say that someone who messes with my food is going to be severly hurt, they might not even make it to jail.
I check my food when I order via fast food and otherwise before I eat it. Should catch the more common pranks. Before people make fun of trashing peoples food, look at how you would feel if you ate tainted food. That’s a felony by the way if you get caught.
See josh…the illegals do not care if it is a felony. They are lawbreakers to begin with.
Furthermore, do you really want an illegal who has not undergone medical screening (that would occur had they come here legally) to be preparing your food?
Because illegals are stupid enough to work for nothing, businesses take advantage of this ignorance and put products into the market at a lower cost to consumers than would be paid if these jobs were done by legal workers who are not accepting these jobs at the current pay rates. Therefore, once we get rid of the illegals, the price for these products to consumers will increase accordingly. This may create some short term volatility in the market but, the products will not disappear; they may be just a bit more expensive. Supply and demand will take care of maintaining a balance of profitability and supply for businesses, and hopefully the unemployment rate will rise a little bit, and make jobs more appealing to legal workers.
Getting rid of illegals is good, long term, for everyone involved.. good for the legal workers because they can get jobs at a better pay rate.. good for businesses because their “plans” would be based on “real” costs therefore they would not have to worry about potential major changes in their profit ratios… good for consumers because they would be paying a realistic price for the product (although possibly higher) and would not have to worry about short term volatility. Good for the illegals because they can go home and if they desire they can come back legally, go to work legally and be viewed as a positive member of society, rather than a scourge who brings negative feelings to themselves and their people (no matter what country they are from).
I agree with George.
Say what ever you want to say, ignore the possibility that maybe it has already occured to you, just like you ignore everything else.
Taste good! Right Josh?
justice said on 11 Oct 2007 at 12:35 pm:
Justice - I’ve stood behind MANY hispanic women using WIC vouchers. I stood behind two, both pregnant, and with at LEAST four children with them. One child had open sores all over his face … it looked like he had chicken pox. The cashier was none too happy, and I, like you, asked how I could get some vouchers. He just shook his head in disgust. So, not only do they continually rip us off - they bring disease into the country and don’t care who they infect.
Hey Hicks…it amazes me that you would endorse that uncivilized behavior!
mcr…here is the typical scenario:
1. Predominantly hispanic women (with 5 plus kids) paying for a full cart/carts of groceries with WIC and foodstamps.
2. Proceed to load up Eddie Bauer luxury edition SUV with the food and kids whilst talking on a nice cell phone.
3. Has plenty of money left over to send back home south of the border via wire transfer.
If you are interested in reading an ‘Open Letter on Immigration’ signed by about 500 economists it can be found at http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1727 and it clearly states that “Overall, immigration has been a net gain for American citizens, though a modest one in proportion to the size of our 13 trillion-dollar economy.”
Please provide further information concerning this ratio 1:3 ratio.
Hickspanic said on 11 Oct 2007 at 1:19 pm:
GET BACK TO WORK HOMBRE?, THE LINE IS GETTING LONG!
Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner
24, 7
McDonnalds Supersized
and I’m in heaven
4 at a time
Every day of my life
And If I get full
I’ll save some for my wife
I’m lovin’ it
Quarter pounder with cheese
Big Mac Every day
Getting fatter each time
That’s what I say
Supersized fries
In ‘em I’ll dig
A McChicken Sandwich
I’m a total pig
I’m lovin’ it
Ronald McDonnald’s
Really neat
He encourages kids
To eat and eat
Just keep away
The carrots and veal
I want myself
A happy meal
I’m lovin’ it
So if you want some
Buy your own
I’m gonna eat ‘em till
I’m full grown
So eat those nuggets
Eat them well
Cuz tommorow I’m havin
Taco Bell
I’M LOVIN’ IT
I’M LOVIN’ IT
Net gain??? Hardly. I will let you do the research on the 1:3 ratio (you seem to need the education on this matter). Just like when a parent told you to look up a word (rather than giving you the answer).
I mean those who *don’t* take advantage…
Hicks…you did the precise things that all the liberals do…spout off your “hate” rhetoric when you get cornered with facts. Nice job in falling into the liberal sympathizers place!
CC,
I read the link you posted. Interesting and debatable regarding immigrats. However, the problem I have is with the ILLEGAL immigrants. I think we all need to keep that in mind. Also, if this is supposed to represent an article about illegal immigrants then I would question the motives of the signatories if they intentionally or conveniently ignored any “illegal” factors.
Hickspanic said on 11 Oct 2007 at 2:07 pm:
I mean those who *don’t* take advantage…
You were probably more correct the first time.
Hick,
Those antics you play are useless to any debate. You quickly throw out the hate word as if it has some basis in fact. You provide no facts to back up your taunting childish behavior, which only further makes you look either extremely immature, or ignorant. You would do yourself better in these conversations if you took a moment to try to get across your points with facts or well founded opinions, rather than the juvenile rantings so often found in your writings.
I have found that most people like you are not very good in this type of debate and would rather place themselves “in the lights” by this type of rhetoric. If you are incapable of mature debate, I suppose you will continue as you have in the past. If you possess an ability to express yourself at a higher level I should hope we might see such soon, or you will be completely ignored by me, and probably by most others who believe in an intelligent discourse on these issues.
I think Compassionate Conservative is one them types who makes his money off of the backs of illegals and the crackdown on illegals will affect his pockets.
As for those who question my education, yeah I have a BS in CIS (Computer Information Systems) along with a PMP Certification and have been blessed enormously. My $$$ have been earned the old fashioned way and I’ve never used an illegal for anything.
When the homebuilding jobs are all gone, you’ll see a drop in the illegal population which means a better quality of life.
The Patriot said on 11 Oct 2007 at 1:43 pm:
Hey Hicks…it amazes me that you would endorse that uncivilized behavior!
Because Chickspanic is a RACIST!! Right, Chickspanic?!
Go ahead chica and say it: Long Live La Raza, Long Live La Raza
“Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada.”
“Everything for the race. Everything outside the race, nothing.”
Angry, I am a PMP too! I earned everything I have too. I was brought up…if you want it….you need to earn it.
Come on now Hickspanic…HSM is not about hate and if this were the case, I’d have nothing to do with a group like this. My question to you is, “could Americans sneak into Mexico/South America and do what the illegals are doing here”? Do you think the govt there would allow this?
See, it’s not about hate but about the Laws of the Land which need to be enforced. Why should 25 people be allowed in a new home when some like myself have worked hard to buy a house that is supported by myself and my wife? Why should we allow illegals to park on the grass in instances where there 25 people to a home? Why should we dumb down the school curriculum for “Pedro” because he can’t speak English and is OF illegals?
I could go on and on but hopefully you get my message. When my life is over, my prayer is that The Lord will forgive me of my sins and I too get the Eternal Life in HEAVEN therefore, “hate” cannot be a part of my makeup for the Lord created us in his image and we all are equal. So I don’t hate anyone but I do believe that the Laws of the Bible and of the Land should be obeyed.
The have’s and have not’s is directly correlated to the will’s and will not’s!!
Hickspanic, did you forget to take your medication today?
If, as you say, all the illegals want is a chance, then they
should seek to change the conditions in their own country
rather than inundating us with the parasitism that we, as
Americans are hostile to.
Gone Fishing on 11 Oct 2007 at 3:07 pm:
He must have gone back to work making the fries. I complained earlier that he was holding me up in the drive-thru lane and he went on a rant. He’s gonna change his name to Hickspanicattack.
I’ll be the first one to admit that i have no place in a political conversation, i’ll leave that to the experts. Most of the people who comment on the facts that others post are as immature of not more than i am.
You want facts? here are some facts
1. Most of u don’t know what it’s like to be an illegal, you should be thankful for that.
2. When things don’t go your way, or you hear of other people who you feel are inferior to you, you find it very easy to bash them, all in general.
3. When all of you have your mature political discussion and don’t take this opportunity to take a cheap shot at an illegal without him to defend himself you will no longer hear from me.
4. These people desserve a chance.
Stop the flow of all illegals, from all countries. Raise the standards in schools, society, and specially in politics. We all know it’s impossible, you need to have somebody to blame because you won’t take responsibility for your own actions.
I guess it’s better to spend taxpayer’s money on welfare and inmates than on illegals trying to better their future.
My story can repeat over and over again.
I’m nothing but an illegal imigrant from El Salvador who made something of myself, because i was given a chance.
My work day is over, thanks again for making my day a good one.
Hickspanic said on 11 Oct 2007 at 3:34 pm:
I’ll be the first one to admit that i have no place in a political conversation, i’ll leave that to the experts. Most of the people who comment on the facts that others post are as immature of not more than i am.
You want facts? here are some facts
1. Most of u don’t know what it’s like to be an illegal, you should be thankful for that.
2. When things don’t go your way, or you hear of other people who you feel are inferior to you, you find it very easy to bash them, all in general.
3. When all of you have your mature political discussion and don’t take this opportunity to take a cheap shot at an illegal without him to defend himself you will no longer hear from me.
4. These people desserve a chance.
Hey, Knucklehead…which one is fact? Oh, and yes, they do deserve a chance. A chance to catch the first flight back to their home country!
The fact is that none of you are better than any illegal, what makes you better than them?
Your not any better than me, unlike you i am honest.
Hicks has not assimilated, even after all those years and being given citizenship.
Hick,
Regarding your recent post:
Point 1.. I agree.
Point 2.. not true
Point 3.. not sure I understand most of it but, when you insist on calling names and suggesting we “hate” people then I kinda like the “you will no longer hear from me.” Part.
Point 4.. I agree.. let them do so legally and they would have no problem with me.
“Stop the flow of all illegals…” I agree
“I’m nothing but an illegal imigrant from El Salvador who made something of myself, because i was given a chance.”
I have a friend who is from El Salvador.. made something of himself also. I do not get to see him often but I plan to ask him the following questions..
Have you recently been feeling that many people look at you differently since the illegal immigrant issue has gottten so high profile?..and..
If so do you believe that it is because people that are here illegally, break the law, steal taxpayer money, clog up hospitals etc… and
Why don’t you come out and fight against those who come here do these things and take away from all you have overcome and accomplished with your hard work?
I believe these are good questions for any legal immigrant who has achieved the American dream. even you Hick.
You see, with rational thinking… We may agree on more than you think.
Hey I’m from El Salvador came here illigal. I went to school
now I’m a register nurse and I take care of patiens with love, please stop racism, you dont have any idea how it feel when bread is not on the table. all the people that come here illigal they just want a chance for a better life.
From civil rights to abortion - when the Federal government fails to act in an area where it has jurisdiction the US Supreme Court steps in.
These cases will percolate through the lower courts and end up in the Supreme Court. Once there, all is lost. Read the bios of the 9 Supreme Court justices. They are all bizarre, academic lawyer-kings and lawyer-queens. They are nerds with attitude.
Now, if the Supreme Court followed the US Constitution themselves and stuck to interpretung law - we’d all be OK. But going back to Earl Warren the US Supreme Court has been making law. And since the justices are appointed for life there is essentially nothing that we citizens can do when we don’t like the laws that the US Supreme Court has been making.
The best approach is to follow the US Constitution closely enough to deny the US Supreme Court the chance to abuse its role and make new law.
In the case of immigration, the federal government is clearly the party responsible under the US Constitution (as literally interpreted). However, President Bush’s immigration proposal was rejected by Congress and by lots of people in groups like Help Save Manassas and on this site. I know that the people who opposed this law did so with the best intentions. However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and the road to immigration law disaster goes straight through the US Supreme Court.
Pushing local action on illegal immigration is a mistake. Local and state governemnts do not have the legal authority to set immigration law. Only the federal government has that authority. I know that it’s frustrating to see a problem like illegal immigration without a solution from government. I know that it makes people temporarily happy to see local and state governements doing somethig. But, in the mid to long run, this is a false happiness.
In my opinion, groups like HSM and BVBL should focus their efforts on getting their federal representatives to address this issue with federal law. Or, getting rid of the incumbents who have failed to address this issue. Putting forth county level resolutions is actually counter-productive.
illigal on 11 Oct 2007 at 4:33 pm:
Illegals have been in this country for at least 25-30 years. Not much was said until 1986 when the amnesty bill was passed. That was supposed to have taken care of the problem. It didn’t. It only compounded the situation because more and more illegals decided that since the last group made it across and received amnesty, we can too. Up until about 5 or 6 years ago things remained calm. Illegals were still coming across but little was said. Then all “hell” broke loose and our schools started to take a “hit” with all of the illegals, our hospital emergency rooms were full of illegals and the country started to look like a third world with people standing on the corners looking for work. Neighborhoods started to decay with bording houses popping up in single family homes, cars parked on lawns, houses being enlarged to hold more and more illegals, drunk illegal aliens driving on our roads with no licenses and no insurance and sure to “bail out” and run after an accidente. People for years turned a “blind” eye to these situations (and we are paying for it now) and little was said. However, now the tide has turned against these illegals mainly because of their numbers and actions and people are fed up with the quality of life they now have. You know why the last two Senate bills were defeated? Had those bills passed, there would have been another massive invasion from the South to establish their place in the land of milk and honey. No thank you! The fight is on and if we back down from this fight, we all lose. You think there are gang problems now? Wait until the second and third generation of illegals comes about.
i come hear from mexico legal in 1987 but am a US sitizen now and hope my people can stay. We want to work and make living for are families. some of peeoples are here illegal and make it bad for us good peoples who follow law of U S and make us look bad. illegal immigrant should be stop
It all comes down to “which part of ILLEGAL do you not understand”? If you are an illegal, there is no lawful basis for you to be in this nation, regardless of your character, your desire for a better life or your dreams for your children. You simply have no right to be here and disregard our nation’s laws. I never see MWB or Nancy Lyall or Ricardo Juarez explain away this logic or address it at all.
legalmexican: If you are a US citizen then “your people” are Americans. Not Mexicans. Are you a dual citizen? Americans welcome LEGAL immigrants and want them to consider themselves Americans.
If you know any illegal aliens, tell them to go home.
illigal: May I ask where you got your nursing degree? Are you a BSN? Do you know what being an American means? Are you aware that being an American is more than just a job and having money to send home?
Illegal -
Then may I suggest that you go home to your native country and make it a better place for you and your family. I don’t care if you are a brain surgeon, you are illegal and should not be here.
Greg,
How about censoring Hick, he’s using a bad word in spanish on the blog. I usually ignore his comments but the word he used around 11:51am was uncalled for.
Hick,
Your employer lets you blog all day during work? Must be nice.
Dave in PWC -
He’s been talking “junk” all day - and most of it is disjointed. He almost sounds like he’s got a split personality or is bi-polar.
Yeah, Hick’s got quite the job - where he can spend most of of his day on this blog! He’s shafting someone. And before anyone jumps on me - I work at home - for myself.
Plenty of people have used ‘bad words’ on here, including me. Dave, come on. How old are you?
Plenty of people on here are blogging from work. Probably not such a good idea to start calling people out over that issue. That is between them and their employer. And before I am called on it, no, I am not at work. When I go to work, I don’t blog.
Monticup, plenty of immigrants who have become citizens or legal residents still think of their countrymen and women as ‘their people.’ That is just human nature. When I travel, I think of Virginians as ‘my people.’
Becoming an American does not mean you divorce your culture, your heritage, or those who share those things in common with you. I think legalmexican’s remarks were perfectly appropriate.
I am amazed at how quickly some of you jump on those who are basically agreeing with you.
Dolph -
Correct me if I’m wrong - but you once tried to get COM kicked off this very blog…..because YOU felt he was being disrespectful. COM comments can’t begin to compare to the junk Hick has been throwing around. Please make up your mind.
Monticup: I went to George Mason. I work at fairfax hospital
I’m a citizen now and all my family is here, I dont need to send money home
I love this country. I think you dont really appreciate what you have here. You just want to get controversial.
illigal,
I appreciate what I have here and hope others can also. If done legally. If a person is illegal they should not be here. I know what it is to grow up without any indoor plumbing, using an outhouse, pumping water from an outdoor well, and no government welfare taking care of my family. We struggled and worked hard to get ahead and we are americans. We took no handouts from the gov’t. Now Illegals come here and live on the backs of the taxpayers. The only thing most of us are saying is to come here legally, then we have no problem, and if you are not here legally then go home.
Illigal - I do know what it’s like not to have food on the table. I have been too busy to get to a grocery store in about a month. Because you are doing sooo well here, my family (including 15 male cousins) are going to come over and make ourselves at home in your living room (that’s usually where the tv is placed). We are all very friendly, especially when you are busy in the kitchen making us dinner. We hope you don’t mind because we are just looking for a better life.
To illigal and legalmexican: Please answer this question. Why is the USA the only place you can make a better life for your family? What is it about El Salvador that makes it impossible for you to have a good life? We all want a better life, but we don’t lie, steal and cheat to get it. If you love our country, I hope you will speak out against illegal aliens. You don’t want your new country to become like the country you left, do you?
correction: the above is addressed to illigal, not legal mexican.
“You don’t want your new country to become like the country you left, do you?”
Well said, Monticup. We WILL end up resembling those countries if our gov’t continues to turn a blind eye to this invasion.
illigal said on 11 Oct 2007 at 4:33 pm:
“Hey I’m from El Salvador came here illigal. I went to school
now I’m a register nurse….”
Congratulations illegal…and who did you have to push out of the way to get that education? Perhaps it was one of your LEGAL fellow countrymen/women? Oh well, what’s done is done. I agree with manassascityresident that you should go back to your own country with that wonderful education that you stole from others and try to bring them into the 21st Century so that the rest of your people can also benefit from your experience one day…the sooner, the better.
AW: Come to think of it, who paid for the George Mason education? Mason is not so easy to get into anymore. Hmmm…
Manassascityresident,
I have never tried to get anyone thrown off here. You may confirm that with Greg. I believe you have me confused with someone else.
It’s my (and my wife’s) opinion, but we believe that illigal is a fake. If at best, he/she worked as custodian at GMU and INOVA. We doubt she could read or write on a patient’s chart. My wife is an RN and after reading her post, she says “no way”.
Keokuk: That’s what I was thinking. No way is he/she an RN.
Dolph -
No, I don’t have you confused. You and “Lovisa” wanted Citizen of Manassas (COM) banned. No, I’m not going to bother Greg over this - he’s got more important things to worry about. All I’m asking for is a little consistency.
Manassascityresident,
I did not ask to have com banned. I have never asked to have anyone banned. Get your facts straight. Apparently you feel it is better to continue with a lie than to verify the facts.
Leila,the last census I read had hispanics at 475of th agricultural workforce. This included citizens legal and illegal workers.In 1993 hispanics only comprised 15.8%of the agricultural workforce. the only reason it is as high as it is now is because NAFTA allowed cheap US gov.subsidized produce to flood the market in Mexico and in so doing drove mexicans off their farms and onto ours. I get my figures from the US statistical abstracts;a branch of the census bureau. Also with the cost of field labor at 10%of the price of lettuce and the typical wages at $10.00 per hour,to make a $1.50 head of lettuce go to $10.35 you would have to pay the pickers 600.00 dollars an hour:Do the math.
May I correct myself;I didn’t hit the shift key hard enough. It should read 47% of the workforce.
Dolph -
I do not lie. You stopped posting here for a couple of weeks because you were angry over COM’s comments. You have a convenient memory.
Enough said.
Dolph,
I was just trying to provoke a reaction from Hick when I complained to Greg about him using that word. Didn’t mean to start a war between you and manassascityresident. Well off to work for me, can’t blog at work, gotta fire up that griddle to flip pancakes…
Manassascityresident,
To be fair with the argument between you and Dolph, do you know for a fact that is why Dolph stopped posting or are you assuming? ( you may know each other, I don’t know)
If you don’t want to bother Greg, than just go back thru the blog and point out where Dolph tried to ban COM or whoever…just a THOUGHT, not starting anything either
Redawn -
I will find the post. And I will be fair. I do believe her post is on a thread not available in the archive. I didn’t mean to start anything - I would just like to see consistency in what is deemed “inappropriate” language - that’s all.
I really don’t think that Dolph read through all of “hickspanic’s” comments on this thread - because if she had, I doubt she would have supported him.
Will keep you “posted”….
Manasscityresident,
I enjoy reading BOTH from you and Dolph and hope neither one of you stop posting.
Cool
MCR,
I have not defended Hickspanic. Nowhere have I defended him or even commented on anything this individual has said. He is obviously playing people here so why would I want to add anything to that? Surely you aren’t taking his bantering seriously.
Next point: I often read and do not comment. I don’t feel it necessary to have an opinion on everything. You don’t know me and therefore have no clue as to why I am not commenting. You don’t know what else I have going on in my life, if I am out of town, busy, or if I am simply mercifully silent. Don’t assume anything. I have never ‘not posted’ because of COM, nor have I not posted for several weeks.
I said what I had to say to COM and that was the end of it, at least on my end. If you are trying to stir up something between him/her and me, it isn’t going to work. Old history. Live and let live.
I will, at this point, say once again, you are wrong. I have not asked to have anyone banned. I did not stop posting for several weeks, over COM or anyone else. At this point, either prove it or drop it. The topic is boring me and I am sure others are bored also.
Manassascityresident and Dolph,
I think I found what you were looking for.
It was NOT Dolph, it was LOVISA that said COM should be banned.
See the thread: Manassas Gets it’s own Ward Churchill posted on Sept. 8th…here is part of the conversation:
“Lovisa said on 10 Sep 2007 at 5:46 pm:
Greg L. - Is this kind of address permitted or should citizenofmanassas be banned? Seriously?
citizenofmanassas said on 10 Sep 2007 at 5:53 pm:
A little too hot for you in the kitchen for you? You are the one that spins the issues and ignores the truth. You can’t address the issues, because you know you are wrong, so you grasp at anything but what has been directed at you.
dolph said on 10 Sep 2007 at 5:58 pm:
COM,
You are completely out of line. Your behavior is rude, crude, and socially unacceptable.
You have been bear-baiting people all day. No one on here has been able to make a comment without you chiming in and name calling.
Enough is enough. Get some self control here.”
Please accept my appology, i really did not mean to come between you fine people, all i’m trying to do here is prove a point.
Before you point the dirty end of the stick at somebody, make sure you know what you are talking about, don’t assume all illegals are leaches, or parasites of society. Every race has their bad apples. Let people do their jobs and you will help out more by not telling them what to do. If we did this more often, we would not have our family member in the middle east, dying on a daily basis, For what?
This mission should have been done a long time ago if:
1. Politics stayed the hell out of the way.
2. Liberal Media took more time on problems here at home not over seas.
Let me do my job, and i’ll let you do yours, very simple.
Ms. Redawn,
Thank you for your efforts. I appreciate the time you spent keeping me from being ‘richelled.’
COM,
I am sorry any unpleasantness between you and me has resurfaced. According to my personal rules of order, what transpired between us was over and done with on 9/10. I have no intentions of restarting any battles from ancient history.
Have a nice weekend.
Dolph
Dolph,
No problem. It didn’t take me that long as I vaguey remembered a conversation to this effect.
Hope it clears the air
Thank you, Redawn -
My apologies to Dolph -
MCR,
Accepted. I am glad this issue is cleared up. Thanks again Ms. Redawn.
Dolph
I’m happy that illigal is now a citizen, and she should be treated as such, with respect and welcome to our community.
I do want to point out the dark side of what illigal or others in similar situations may have unfairly benefited from, and that is the area of hiring and importing nurses from other countries (legally and illegally).
Nurses prior to this demographic shift in the nurse work force, made decent living wages and worked thier butts off just as they do now. BUT, many of these highly qualified nurses were marginalized and pushed out of their jobs by the influx of “illegals” and those who signed up for special ethnic group privileges offered by congressman and agencies that have special group advocates in staff positions who had been “illegal” prior to 1986, but got amnesty, to support and hire others who found ways to get “legal” quickly, by marrying, having other family members bring them in and sponsor them, and by taking advantage of work visas and ethnic group relationships until they could get green cards and then citizenships. They got these jobs not because they had better nursing degrees, or were more qualified than the existing nurses, but because they were willing to work for much less than the current nurses could afford to live, using the same techniques “illegals” use to live under conditions and survive until they could get “legal”. The pure and simple fact is the wage scale in other countries, is undermining ours, and the skills of our own citizens are being lost and taking a back seat to “cheap” labor, even in highly professional jobs. No-one is protecting the rights of those displaced nurses. So although I am glad illigal, is now “LEGAL”, I believe every citizen who got that citizenship unfairly or using “illegal” and “unfair” tactics, should have that citizenship right revoked. Discrimminating is taking something unfairly from someone who deserves it, and freely giving it away to others who because of “illegal” behavior in the past, don’t deserve “legal” status now. I’m sure the country will never allow this unfairness to ever be made equitable or compensated, but these displaced nurses, deserve your sympathy and support as much or more than Illigal does. What matters to me is not that illigal got her citizenship or is a nurse, I happy for her as an individual, but I want to know how she got it before I will truly be able to welcome her without any anger. If she got it legally, welcome to the US and I have no ill will. IF she got it through some “loophole”, she owes these other nurses compensation for what she took from them, and the prosperity our entire community lost, by having lower wage earners spend less back into society…than these displaced nurses would have. The profit went to the hospital execs and CEOs, they should be held accountable too
This is not an attack on you personally illigal, but the law, commercial and agency system which gave an unfair advantage to many “illegal” and some legal people who don’t deserve it more than those they displaced.
Michael,
I concur! Bravo~( same old song and dance…you brought it right back to the point)
Can we expect the Puerto Rican defense and education fund to get involved in this case too? Probably not.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PUERTO_RICO_PET_MASSACRE?SITE=DCTMS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Anonymous said on 11 Oct 2007 at 12:51 pm:
Hickspanicon 11 Oct 2007 at 12:32 pm:
Are you saying the hard workers at MickeyDee’s are doing that to the food they serve? If that is the case, perhaps you sould make a formal complaint to your manager.
Did you report your findings on what your co-workers are doing to the customer’s food at your place of employment? Guess you are too busy or maybe you are doing the same things they are.
Racist……Hispanic slang for “Hard working law abiding American citizen.”
Fairfax residence,there is nothing in the constitution giving the federal government exclusive control over immigration, in fact immigration isn’t even mentioned.This is all a myth.