"We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge" - Barack Obama (aka President Malaise)
Open Thread
By Greg L | 11 October 2007 | Uncategorized | 120 Comments
I’m swamped today, but that doesn’t mean you can’t talk about what’s going on. Have at it!
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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A federal judge in San Francisco yesterday blocked plans by the Department of Homeland Security and the Social Security Administration to crack down on employers who hire illegal aliens.
U.S. District Judge Charles Breyer issued an order saying the agencies could not go forward with plans announced in August to send letters warning employers they face stiff penalties — including fines of up to $10,000 — if they hire workers whose Social Security numbers do not match their names.
Judge Breyer, appointed by President Clinton in 1997, said the new work-site rules likely would impose hardships on businesses and their workers, adding that the plaintiffs had “demonstrated they will be irreparably harmed” if the rules are enforced.
The judge, the younger brother of Supreme Court Justice Stephen G. Breyer, issued a preliminary injunction that will remain in effect until a pending lawsuit challenging the rules goes to trial sometime next year or until a higher court intervenes. The plaintiffs in the suit include the AFL-CIO, the American Civil Liberties Union, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and a number of other business, labor and immigration-activist groups.
For the rest of the story, go to America’s Newspaper, The Washington Times: http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071011/NATION/110110087/1001
Not being a legal beagle, I ask this question; If the PW resolution passes this Tuesday (i.e. is funded), can any judge with jurisdiction authority temporarily restrict its implementation because of the lawsuit?
I received a letter back from Jenkins:
I voted FOR the July 10th resolution and on Tuesday, October 2nd I voted FOR the resolution unanimously adopted by the board which accepted the County Executive’s recommendations and those of the Chief of Police. We did receive word from the Governor’s office that our 599 (Police funding) funding was being cut for this fiscal year by $575,000. Because that gives us a shortfall in the current budget of $575,000 the board unanimously decided to defer funding action until Oct 11th so that we could review the budget situation at our financial retreat and figure out how to fund the shortfall.
I understand that there was an incorrect article in one of the newspapers which stated that several board members were not going to support the resolution which we passed yesterday but that turned out to be a lie and the reporter who wrote the article apologized to the members listed in the article. Make no mistake about it, I DO NOT support illegal aliens nor breaking of any of our laws.
I am working with my fellow board members to develop policies and legislation to help deal with this problem at the county level. I believe that the federal government must close our borders to illegal immigration and that all illegal immigrants must be identified and returned to their homes of record or attain legal status as soon as possible.
You can help by contacting your State Delegates and Senators and your US Congressmen and US Senators to ask their assistance with legislation which will help us to deal with the problem. Contact information for your state and federal elected representatives is as follows:
Senator John Warner, US Senate, Email: senator@warner.senate.gov Telephone: 202 224-2023
Senator Jim Webb, US Senate, Email: webb.senate.gov/contact Telephone: 202-224-4024
Congressman Tom Davis, US Congress, 11th District, Email: tom.davis@mail.house.gov Telephone (703) 590-4599
Senator Charles Colgan, Virginia State Senate, 29th District , Email: district29@sov.state.va.us Telephone (804) 698-7529
Senator Toddy Puller, Virginia State Senate, Email: district36@sov.state.va.us Telephone (804) 698-7536
Delegate Scott Lingamfelter, VA House of Delegates, Email: del_Lingamfelter@house.state.va.us Telephone (703) 580-8899Delegate Michelle McQuigg, VA House of Delegates, Email: DelMMcquigg@house.state.va.us, Telephone: (804) 698-1051
JOHN D. JENKINS, Neabsco District Supervisor
Jenkins is passing the buck! Money to cover the “shortfall” can come from the “Community Development” section of the CIP. There are plenty of projects in that section that certainly can be deferred in order to solve our most important problem….illegal immigration.
The PWC Bar Association Forum between O’Brien-Barker, FitzSimmonds-Colgan, Miller-Rishell, Marshall-Roemelt, Lingamfelter-Day, Gill-Nichols, and Frederick-Brown is tonight. The forum starts at 7 at the Verizon Auditorium at GMU in Manassas.
Understandably, Frederick and Lingamfelter are going to be late because they are attending services for Rep. JoAnn Davis.
Barker is also going to be late but no excuse has been offered and Colgan is going to be late because he has a fundraiser in Richmond this evening.
This morning Cuccinelli and Oleszek had a debate of some sort on Chris Core’s show. I hope someone had the audio.
The only part I heard was when Chris Core followed up with Ken concerning Janet’s bizarre claim that Ken would make birth control pills illegal. Ken quickly denied it (and noted that at least he answers questions directly, unlike his opponent). There was also some discussion about the Transportation compromise, though Chris Core didn’t let Ken answer fully.
Patriot–
Actually, deferring from the CIP is not as straightforward as you imply and could actually cost more in the long run (especially if the project has already been put out to contract).
An area to look at, however, would be the cash many of the Supervisors have stockpiled in their discretionary budgets. That could at least help defray some the shortfall caused by the state not ponying up their promised share of police funding.
Oh, and just out of curiosity, which particular CIP projects would you propose get cut? Obviously, you’ve looked at the list and seen some largesse. So, which particular project(s)?
Is it true that Cuccinelli opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest? A Post commenter on Marc Fisher’s chat asserted that. Does he allow an exception for the life of the mother?
Turn, looking at the projects in the “Community Development” section…surely there are some that can be deferred.
The projects are worth looking at as a starting point.
Anonymous,
You seem to be taking the position that children born as a result of rape or incest are somehow less human or have less a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than those who are not. Do you really subscribe to such a belief? Just curious
http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2007/09/post_24.html
“San Fran proposes ID cards for illegal immigrants”
So let me get this straight….in order for you to get an id you would have to be an illegal. Therefore, why can’t ICE use the id card list to go after them???
Tom Knott has a GREAT article in the WashTimes today:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071011/METRO/110110048/1004
“Mr. Reid reflects the thinking of many of the lawmakers in our region, where it has become the duty of taxpayers to help illegal aliens feel at home, whether it is building day-laborer centers in their honor, providing them with social services or encouraging them not to play by our bureaucratic rules.
Yours is a phony driver”s license? That is not a problem. We understand. America”s racist, bigoted ways forced you into taking this unlawful measure. We are so sorry. Have a nice day.”
manassascityresident
I’m glad you got a response back from John J. I still have NOT gotten a response back from him and four others. I’ve faxed,email, and called ALL PWCBOS’s offices. Still waiting on responses from John J, Hilda, Maureen, Marty, and Mike!!
I’m working on my “report card” of the PWCBOS. I did get a response back from Chris Royse though, and I don’t live in the Woodbridge district. I do believe all supervisors are to act in the best interest of the county on a whole.
Woodbridge now is your chance!! Vote for and support Chris Royse.
http://www.chrisroyse.com/
VRC You spoke of children who are born. I would agree children born all have equal rights. But like a majority of Americans, I don’t believe a woman should be forced to carry through a pregnancy under any circumstance. If you believe that a fetus is equivalent to a woman, then if a choice came to save the life of a woman or an unborn fetus, you would flip a coin. I wouldn’t.
Do you know what Cuccinelli’s position is?
Laf -
Jenkins is the only member I’ve heard from and I sent letters to all of them too …… I’ll let you know if I hear from anyone else.
Speaking generally, defering projects from the CIP can be done. It regularly happens but in this case it might not be the best idea. You have out-year expenses associated with the hiring of more officers. Therefore, deferring a project this year might pay for increased enforcement costs this year but in out years it doesn’t help and will usually end up costing more to get the project done…just an observation.
The Patriot on 11 Oct 2007 at 1:15 pm:
It’s the same reason they won’t go after the ones issued ID cards in Ct. or a few other states. WILL!! Nor will they go after the ones that will be issued driver licenses (if it the Guv prevails) in NYC.
Hey Folks,
I know it’s not PWC, but there is a candidate for Ffx BOCS who is taking a stand on illegal immigration, his name is Mike “Spike” Williams, check the following link to a Town of Vienna web-site that submitted a questionnaire concerning illegal immigration to several candidates vying to replace Cathy Hudgins on the Board:
Below is his reponse (note that he praises PWC and Loudoun for “making the hard decisions” while Ffx continues to “look the other way”):
Candidate Williams took the time and effort to respond:
Dear Vienna Homeowners:
Thank you for the great questions, this is an issue that is weighing heavily on the minds of people who approach me wanting to know what I will do to protect Fairfax County. The following are my responses to the questions posed to the Fairfax County Hunter Mill District Supervisor candidates.
1.) Please provide your personal statement regarding the status of illegal aliens residing in our community.
A: I am alarmed by the direction our current Board of Supervisors is going in. There is a conscious and deliberate agenda that Mr. Connolly, and those on the Board that support him, have to make Fairfax a Sanctuary County. Members of the community have reported hearing Cathy Hudgins announce that Fairfax County already checks the immigration status of persons that are stopped by police, yet makes it clear that the County does not verify the authenticity of the ID provided! What is the message to the illegal immigrants in Prince William and Loudoun County’s, where local governments are willing to make hard decisions? It tells them, come to Fairfax County, we will look the other way. It is just this type of complicit behavior that exacerbates our open southern border and contributes to the risk to our national security.
I consider people who are in our country illegally to be criminals, no matter what their economic, ethnic or religious background, just as I consider a person committing white collar crimes to be a criminal. Fairfax County needs to have strong leadership who will enforce the laws in a fair and compassionate manner; Fairfax County needs Gary Baise as Chairman and me as the Hunter Mill District representative on the Board of Supervisors.
2.) Do you support/not support the use of tax payer funds to provide public services to those individuals with illegal status in the state of VA or county of Fairfax?
A: I do not support the use of taxpayer funds to provide public services to illegal immigrants. We have a finite amount of resources to provide necessary and essential public services, and a responsibility to deliver them to our taxpaying legal citizens. We must not fail our taxpayers, or allow these resources to be depleted by people who have no legal or practical claim to access them.
Federal law entitles illegal immigrants to the use of our public schools and emergency medical care, both of which we all pay for, one way or another. Additionally, we implicitly endorse the use of our roads and infrastructure by providing drivers licenses to individuals without confirming the authenticity of their identity. Many such recipients do not contribute to the tax base that provides these services to them. I believe we owe it to our taxpaying legal citizens to put in place an effective protocol for verifying identity and legal status before extending public services beyond those I have identified as protected by the federal government.
3.) VA Attorney General Bob McDonnell has endorsed local governments to participate in the Immigration and Customs Enforcement program 287(g). Do you support/not-support Fairfax County and surrounding local governments in participating in the ICE 287(g) program?
A: I support the involvement of Fairfax County in the Immigration and Customs Enforcement program 287(g)
4.) What specifically will you propose as measures to address the growing population of those who are of illegal immigration status in the County?
A: I propose to clean up my own back yard first. Fairfax County should be ensuring that the employees of the contractors the County hires are legal residents. I will also hold the private sector to the same standard. If we take away the appeal of employment from illegal immigrants they will go elsewhere to find work.
I will support our police to receive 287(g) training so that they can better work with ICE officers to remove illegal immigrants from Fairfax County. I look forward to closely assisting Patrick McDade as our new Commonwealth’s Attorney, to address the additional criminal activity symptomatic of illegal immigrants, such as gang activity, illegal residential boarding houses and tax evasion.
BRgds,
Spike
Michael Williams
www.vote4spike.org
Williams Realty
Mobile: 703-244-0006
See the site here:
http://www.historicvienna.com/2007/10/candidates_for_the_hunter_mill.html#comments
Mando on 11 Oct 2007 at 1:20 pm:
I sent that article to both Reid and Durban this morning in case they “missed” it.
Patriot:
I have looked at the CIP projects. I have mine own ideas, but really would love to hear some specifics from YOU. Since you’ve put this out there several times as a potential source of funds, you must have some idea of which projects you personally would see as “deferrable.” How about some specifics. It’s really easy to keep saying “Look at CIP…surely there must be something there.” Again, specifics would be nice. If you were a Supervisor, which particular project would you cut?
Anonymous, ID cards in Connecticut as a whole?
I thought it was in ONE city in Connecticut, New Haven, that was issuing municipal identity cards. The effort is a collaboration of the city, Yale Law School, and other groups.
Turn, that is what I recommended to the BOCS….to look at the CIP (particularly the “Community Development” section). They can dig into the details. That seems like the most logical section (many are historical building restoration projects, etc….which certainly are not as important (at the moment) as getting our illegal immigration situation resolved).
It is simple project re-prioritization.
Rob88iX said on 11 Oct 2007 at 1:31 pm
Thanks for the info! I just sent it to my friends in Fairfax!
Keokuk - I think ONLY if someone attempts action on it thru the courts. I BELIEVE that judges, on their own as representatives of the Court, cannot act on a bill or law.
Again, Patriot, I am asking what YOU would cut. I’m asking you for details. Which of those community development projects would YOU cut if you had the chance? Which of the items do you think is excessive? Which historical building restoration project? Specifics, sir. Specifics. You are quick with broad ideas but always seem to fall short when it comes to the actionable items. It’s one thing to say “There’s got to be some money there” and quite another to actually make the call as to what should stay and what should go. Yes, I realize that is the job of the BOCS, but you seem to have very strong opinions about lots of things until it comes to the point where the rubber hits the road. Then you seem very quick to pass the buck.
Of course, with all that said, you do realize that the CIP is a separate part of the budget because it’s funded separately from the rest of the budget, right? Most CIP programs are funded through bonds that were specifically authorized for CIP projects or through proffers and grants specifically earmarked for that purpose.
So, even if you can finally point out a project you think is superfluous, the money can’t be magically moved to the “fight illegals” column on the ledger because the funding is most likely from a bond or other source earmarked for that specific type of capital improvement project. For instance, restoring the Ben Lomond house is funded through federal and state grants as well as the the “Transient Occupancy Tax” which is specifically earmarked for tourism projects and projects related to tourism sites. Do you think the county will keep the federal and state grants to use someplace else if it cancels the project? Not likely.
The “Historical Property Acquisitions” section looks ripe for the picking until you see that most of the funding for this comes from a court settlement with the federal government and must be used for acquiring historical sites.
And the list goes on when you actually look at the details in the CIP. So, there you have it.
Anonymous said on 11 Oct 2007 at 1:09 pm:
Is it true that Cuccinelli opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest? A Post commenter on Marc Fisher’s chat asserted that. Does he allow an exception for the life of the mother?
Instead of commenting on abortion (which from the tone of your post shows you support), I recommend you contact Ken directly. You can do so from his website: http://www.cuccinelli.com/agency.shtml
After you do, post his reply here for all to see.
NLS is reporting some internal polling out of the State Senate race in the 39th between incumbent Jay o’Brien and George Barker.
These numbers seem to be as reliable as anything else out there and are showing Barker at 42% and O’Brien at 40%. The reason they seem reliable is because Fairfax and Prince William Senate races were all considered toss-ups given the current political environment. Challengers this year just needed to show some competence, put together some sort of ground game, and most importantly NOT make mistakes. Barker thus far has done just that.
Folks…undecideds break much more heavily for a challenger than an incumbent. So…here we go. O’Brien is in trouble now. Even if these numbers were off by 4 or 5 points with Barker down but close it would still mean trouble for O’Brien.
What makes this even worse yet? You got it. The parts of the 39th that fall in PWC and are in the 51st where we have the most disasterous GOP candidate in the Commonwealth. Gill will depress much needed GOP turnout, while boosting Dem enthusiasm in the 51st that has not been seen in many election cycles.
Sad to say…..my election prediction for the GOP is both a House (51st) and Senate (39th) loss coming out of Prince William County.
Advance congratulations: GOOD WORK PWCGOP leadership!
Turn, if the BOCS wants to pay me to do the in depth research on the CIP that you so desire, I will be more than happy to get into the fine details. I recommended to them to do this very exercise (since they are getting paid and its their job).
John Light, I asked the question about Cuccinelli’s views after trying to find the answer from his campaign. Unsuccessfully. From what I read today in the article about him and Janet O., he is trying quite hard not to get pinned down on such issues because his opinion would not be the norm in a “left trending” county as he calls it.
Turn, furthermore, it is people like you that inhibit progress. You try to make things much more complicated than they really are (or need to be). Contracts can be re-negotiated. Money can be re-allocated. Budgets can be revised. Why? Ever heard of a concept called CHANGE MANAGEMENT OR CHANGE CONTROL? Learn it, live it. It is all around us in every business and government.
Turn…: Since “Big Mouth” err… Patriot (Greg), can’t answer or won’t until he’s paid, I’ll give you the answer. You can’t cut anything from it for several reasons. I’ve grouped them so even “Big Mouth” can understand it.
Watershed and Flood Control programs, all are mandated by Federal and State regs. If you cut the programs and don’t meet the mandates, the fines will be larger than the costs which will have to be funded anew at a higher cost.
Tourism and Performing Arts, Forest Green, no expenditures in FY08, thus no savings to be realized.
TEA 21 Matches and Park Referendums, funds are obligated or expenditures mandated.
Ben Lomond, Brentsville Courthouse, Heritage Trail, Pfitner Stadium and Rippon Lodge, all are currently in use and under construction. You can’t cut the funding because you would have to either cease operation or breach contracts.
Bennett School, Historic Property Acquisition, Park Authority and Sudley Park, construction has been fully funded/completed under previous budgets. The only funding in the CIP is for operations, cut the budgets you have to close the parks (political suicide for Stirrup).
Now that we have cleared that up, any more bright ideas Greg err… Patriot, I mean “Big Mouth”. It’s real easy to sit there and pitch a load of BS. That might work with mental midgets like Corey (and for that they’ll pull my GOP card) but it doesn’t work real well with those who are willing to do the “work” you won’t or that you have done and thus should know better.
Mom
Here’s the problem, the Left has a love-affair with abortion and hate the death penalty for murderers with as equal passion. The Far Right believes that you will burn in Hell if you get an abortion and there is no room for maneuver.
I personally am against abortion, ESPECIALLY as a means of birth control (heck, even both parties in Roe v Wade are now against abortion as “Jane Roe” has since found God). That being said, I understand that the ultimate decision IS the woman’s (that decision between her and God) and while I personally find abortion disgusting, it IS the law of the land. Also, people who blow up Abortion Clinics, as long as there are people inside, are NO PRO-LIFE - by definition, they cannot be because they have killed people.
So, that being said, I cannot give an answer for Mr. C as I do not work on his campaign nor speak on his behalf. Yes, a good number of residents ARE pro abortion in Fairfax, but I would say that they are the vocal minority and that the VAST majority, while do not SUPPORT the idea of killing an unborn child, realize that there ARE instances (rape, incest) where it is justified.
So mom…is everything you just said 100% accurate? Is that what you are saying in the open? That is what I am hearing. My recommendations were to further investigate the facts behind the projects. No, I am not going to do this in detail…why? Because people already on the payroll should do that. However, to say nothing can be changed is total nonsense. Almost anything can be changed with the proper change controls in place (particularly if major issues come up that require re-prioritization). If you don’t have these change controls in place, you shouldn’t be managing projects and budgets. So Mom, why don’t you stuff it!
Patriot, BITE ME, its clear you don’t understand that funding mechanisms and protocols for government entities are different than those for private entities and that changes in program allocations are not a simple matter particularly when they involve funds and contracts obligated under previous budget cycles. There a scad of rules regarding changes in budget line items and reallocation of appropriated funds, regulations that often require (among other things) public hearings which carry an additional expense and time factor. So until you research and understand how the system operates do us all a favor and shut the eff up until you can write a check that your ass can actually cash.
Mom
Mom, You think Greg is the patriot?
The John Stirrup and Corey Riley debate was interesting. I was at the debate last night. Corey Riley never said the words illegal or alien or illegal alien. He referred to illegal aliens as undocumented immigrants once and undocumented residents for the remainder of his comments. He also said that it was below this county to blame the county’s problems on a certain group of people. He also said that the supervisors should have consulted with the Human Rights Commission before offering the resolution.
So according to Riley:
1. They are not illegal aliens they are undocumented residents.
2. Shame on county residents for blaming our problems on undocumented residents.
3. The Human Rights Commission is the group that should run the County.
Okay, PWC residents, do you really want to vote for Riley?
John Stirrup went to bat for us. He listened to us, his constituents. He came through. We need to support and vote for John Stirrup. I’m voting for John Stirrup.
Who else has the time and lack of social life to respond/post to all threads at all hours and often immediately in response to other posts? Besides the grammar (or lack thereof) is strikingly similar.
Mom, are you telling me what you said is 100% accurate? Are you telling me there are no change controls in place (in case re-prioritization is necessary for unforseen circumstances - think Risk Management)? That would seem highly unlikely since project management in the government sector is very rigid. Go bite yourself!
Has anyone else gotten “Rishell Rubbish” in their mail today?
Today, it’s movie ad. Rated VA-X Not recommended for Virginia.
Tom Tancredo taking questions at 3:30 per WaPo
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2007/10/01/DI2007100101446.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
Lafayette, since the weather is getting cold you can use her mailers as tinder for your fireplace if you have one.
There are usually controls in place specific to each project. There are no “Macro Change Controls” with respect to the County budget, nor should there be. Amending the budget beyond the threshold, and the threshold is 1%, requires adherence to the requirements of the State Code, those provisions are what make it difficult for local bodies to play games with budgeted funds, and rightly so given your premise.
Mom
Mom, it is worth investigating though to see what indeed can be changed.
John Light,
Thanks for the answer to my qx. It would bother me severely is some liberal judge could postpone the resolution, unilaterally.
Mom–
I’m right there with you on the CIP. I was just hoping The Patriot would so some learnin’ on his own.
Keokuk:
Just saw your 12:17 question. Any group/person who alleges they’ll be affected by legislation can bring an action in a court of competent jurisdiction asking for an injunction to restrain the implementation of that legislation. If the judge who is assigned the case (by the chief judge of that court) finds that the party would more than likely prevail in a hearing on the merits of the case and finds that the party would be irreparably harmed if implementation of the legislation is not enjoined, he can grant an injunction. But no judge can act on his own (sua sponte, as we say in the barroom) to enjoin legislation. I think that answers your question.
At this stage it is generally too late to go back and see what can be changed, particularly as most of the projects in the CIP are either mandated or at or near completion. The more appropriate time is when anticipated expenditure appear on the radar screen. Silver Lake is a good example. Emotional issues aside, was the county realistically prepared to fund a park of that magnitude when it accepted the property as a rezoning proffer? But then again I guess it didn’t matter since it was a foregone conclusion that the property would be ceded to the BRMC, err… Stirrups patron, err… the third party applicant allowed to speak for half an hour during Toll Bros. presentation to the BOCS before the public hearing, a half hour clearly in violation of BOCS rules, but a violation incurred at the pleasure of both Lord Connaughton and Stirrup.
Mom
Lafayette said on 11 Oct 2007 at 2:37 pm:
Has anyone else gotten “Rishell Rubbish” in their mail today?
Yes, and I was just about to post about it. What a piece of trash. I thought maybe, just maybe, she had learned her lesson…..
Did anyone read the article on the editorial page of MJM by Charles Reichley?
He is pro-resolution and had this to say about the funding:
“Opponents argue that $3M per year is too much to spend. But cost can be argued for any law enforceent….As a comparison, the board is considering spending $3.25M to map streams for Resource Protection Areas. Meanwhile, a study earlier this year said illegal immigrants cost the county at least that much. And we will get seven new police officers….”
I don’t give a HOOT about mapping streams - I give a HOOT about funding the resolution! It was refreshing to finally read something in the MJM that actually made sense.
The Patriot and ALL
Have you contacted the PWCBOS today? Well here’ s something for all in PWC only to fax ASAP.
http://www.numbersusa.com/faxes?ID=8917
This fax alert is for PRINCE WILLIAM COUNTY RESIDENTS ONLY!
Please pass this link on to all fellow concerned citizens!!
mcr,
Why doesn’t anyone ever bring up the fact we will save money when we no longer have the “red carpet” rolled out for illegal aliens? Not to mention the quality of life will be restored. There’s no pricetag for the loss of quality of life.
Did you all know that Virginia comes in 13th for the most “No Match Letters”? California is 1st.
John Light - I don’t believe anybody is pro-abortion. They are pro the right to make a choice. A choice that I doubt anyone makes lightly. I do not believe that the government has a right to interfere in something so intensely personal.
Krutis,
Well, well, well.. I’m going to agree with you 100%.
Pro right to make a choice indeed!!! Thank you for comments.
Well said.
With apologies to all who dread another abortion debate…
Anonymous,
I can’t give you a definitive answer but I would have to assume the Senator Cuccinelli is consistently pro-life, as I am, across the board. The “to save the life of the mother argument” is certainly valid but it has also served as an immensely successful red-herring used by the pro-choice movement for decades to muddy the waters. Sometimes it IS necessary to remove a cancerous uterus (which may hold a baby in the embryonic stage or the fetal stage. That is widely considered a viable and ethical medical procedure in Christian bioethics circles as it is not a direct assault on the life of the fetus. But the medical instances where the baby’s life must be ended so that the mother’s can continue are much fewer and farther between. We have to be very careful when we make universal applications of hard cases.
“Life of the mother”, as an example, was one of the fallacious arguments in the attempt to salvage the grisly partial birth abortion procedure. Arguments by the AMA that the procedure is never medically necessary notwithstanding, proponents of this Mengelese torture said that there are times when a mother’s life can be saved using this procedure. It was and is a lie, manufactured in the war rooms of NOW and Planned Parenthood. The truth is that it is never medically necessary because it is actually easier and safer to FINISH delivering the baby (whose head is the only remaining body part still in the birth canal) rather than sucking out its brain and collapsing its skull (sorry folks…dem’s the hard medical facts). In fact, abortionists often expend no small bit of effort to keep the baby’s head from exiting the birth canal so that the procedure can be performed without risking a murder indictment. We sometimes can be distracted from the facts by bumper sticker maxims like “rape, incest, life of the mother”.
John Light, I have often read your well-thought out posts but respectfully have to say that when you assert that you “find abortion disgusting but it IS the law of the land”, you are not taking a terribly courageous position. Certainly not the long view. Substitute the word abortion in your sentence with “slavery”, “segregation” or “denying women the right to vote” and you might find that you are buying into the particular zeitgeist of this era. Legal does not mean RIGHT. Nor does it mean immutable!
20 years from now, when our society becomes even more “enlightened”, will you espouse, “I personally find the eradication of genetically inferior infants disgusting, BUT…”? You think I am reaching? What would the suffragette mothers of the early 20th century have thought if you had told them that abortion would become the sacrosanct sacrament of the women’s rights movement, or if you had told run of the mill folks of the 1950s that homosexual activity would gradually be accepted as so mainstream to that it would be celebrated in public schools as being equivalent to marriage and that adoption agencies would be in jeapordy of having their licenses revoked if they did not allow gay couples to adopt children? What about cloning? Just the prospect of the possibility of human cloning caused shock and dismay back in the 1980s. It is now being “advanced” in labs throughout the world and elicits not much more than a ho-hum with each incremental abomination.
Sorry for the long post but human babies, whether born or pre-born, whether conceived out of love, lust, or violence, are made in the image and likeness of their creator and deserve the protection they once were offered in more God-fearing ages. There are untold numbers of adults walking around today whose conception was a result of their fathers raping their mothers. Ditto those born out of incest. These individuals have ABSOLUTELY as much intrinsic value (and did when they were teens, pre-teens, toddlers, newborns, fetuses) and as much a right to life as you do!
I think that is likely Sen. Cuccinelli’s position.
The only people I have ever known who are pro-abortion are those raising teenagers. There is probably not a person alive with a teenager who, for a fleeting second, has not wanted to make abortion not only legal but retroactive to age 21.
VCR
In-vitro fertilization is increasing everyday. This often times makes for multiple births, and often endangering the mother.
Therefore making partial abortion necessary to save the mother and other fetus’s lives.
If abortion were not legal we’d have many other serioius health issue to deal with from illegal abortions.
VCR
In-vitro fertilization is increasing everyday. This often times makes for multiple births, and often endangering the mother.
Therefore making partial abortion necessary to save the mother and other fetus’s lives.
If abortion were not legal we’d have many other serioius health issues to deal with from illegal abortions.
Krutis said on 11 Oct 2007 at 3:13 pm:
John Light - I don’t believe anybody is pro-abortion. They are pro the right to make a choice. A choice that I doubt anyone makes lightly.
Ok, so, in the sense of not being a hypocrite, you should be pro prostitution and pro drug use because is not THAT the right to chose what happens to your body? If you don’t believe that anbody is pro-abortion, you DEFINITELY have not been paying attention to the National Organization of Women.
Roe v Wade was based on a woman who was using abortion as birth control. She honestly did not believe that the baby inside her was a living being but tissue, much like a finger nail. So I must respectfully disagree with you on this one.
Lafayette,
Yes, I received Rishell’s Rubbish today - nice typographical error “CO-STARING” should be “CO-STARRING.” I called her campaign office and gave her staffer a piece of my mind. I requested to be removed from the mailing list on September 21, yet I am still receiving mailings. I told her I didn’t want to see any more of Rishell’s slanderous, lying mailers any more, and told her that Rishell deserved to be busted out by the Manassas Journal Messenger for her nasty lies.
One, like Laf said, we will save so much when the illegals will be gone from our county. Have they figured the savings as well as the costs?
Two, do the driver’s licenses that are given to illegals have an asterik or something to let everyone know they are illegal or it’s temporary or something or do they get one like yours and mine? I will be mad as hell if they get one like yours and mine…..I don’t care what state did it.
Good point, Lafayette.
I am pro-choice. I don’t want the state making personal decisions for me. No debate. That is my opinion.
People should make reproductive choices based on their own moral and/or religious beliefs.
Leila
on 11 Oct 2007 at 1:37 pm:
Not all of Ct. Couldn’t remember which city (and didn’t want to be incorrect by naming the wrong city) but New Haven is correct. Some cities are going along with 287g.
Dolf, you’ve got that right! Thanks for having the courage
to come out with that. LOL
Lafayette on 11 Oct 2007 at 3:05 pm:
Thanks for the info. Maybe that URL would be better off posted in it’s own thread? Came across it here by accident. Thanks again!
Lafayette,
You are one of my favorite posters and are always 100% dead-on where illegal aliens are concerned. And I think you make a powerful argument against in-vitro fertilization (I know that wasn’t your intent!) But I have to respectfully disagree. Again, partial-birth abortion delivers the entire torso of the little guy or gal to the point where the head either stays in the birth canal or is forced to remain there until the head is perforated at the base of the skull with surgical scissors and the skull collapsed. Multiple births do not require crushing a baby’s skull. Sometimes an emergency c-section may be required but more and most often, the baby’s head can just naturally slip out or be pushed out via the natural birth process.
Lafayette, you are as hip as anyone to the propaganda used to great effect by the illegal alien apologists. They spread the big lie that anyone who wants our laws obeyed and respected where illegals are concerned is a racist! I wish you could see that these same misinformation campaigns have been used for years by the abortion industry to convince Americans that the unborn child is anything but a human being and should be at best, an afterthought. I have a friend at work whose wife gave birth to their first child. He was born 15 weeks early and was the size of cell phone. He is now a thriving 11 month old boy! The unborn are miracles…don’t you think we should take the approach, at the very least, of saying in all cases “Let’s do everything we can to give these little miracles a shot at life?”
A few quotes -
“I believe that Mr. Clinton was misled by his medical advisors on what is fact and what is fiction in reference to late-term abortions. Because in no way can I twist my mind to see that the late-term abortions as described — you know, partial-birth, and then destruction of the unborn child before the head is born — is a medical necessity for the mother. It certainly can’t be a necessity for the baby. So I am opposed to… partial birth abortions.”
– Former Surgeon General of the United States, C. Everett Koop, in an August 19, 1996 interview with American Medical News
“The pro-choice movement has lost a lot of credibility during this debate, not just with the general public, but with our pro-choice friends in Congress…. Even the White House is now questioning the accuracy of some of the information given to it on this issue.”
– Ron Fitzsimmons, executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers
I have an unconfirmed report that yesterday, Wednesday October 10, at Osbourn Park High School a girl came to school with a t shirt from Help Save Manassas. Apparently she was removed from the class because three hispanic girls in the girls broke out in histerics and the girl had to remove the shirt.
I would like to know that Help Save Manassas could go to OP and have a chat with the Principal since the school seems to be running redder than a communist flag. Only three days ago I heard that one of the teachers, and it is not the first time I have heard of such an occurrence, spent considerable time in her class proselitizing on the goodness of massive illegal immigration.
I think that our tax dollars should go to educate and to buttress free speech.
Oh and one another heart-render on PB abortion for anyone interested…
Babies that are subjected to this insanity are of substantial weight and size. They are VERY developed and the “doctors” have to deal with a pretty active, squirming body. It actually breaks my heart to even type this, but it is common for the baby to be offered an adult finger to squeeze in the operating room so that he/she will stop squirming. The procedure can then be completed without incident.
If this rumor about Osbourn Park is true, I believe the ACLU should be interested in defending this future Help Save Manassas member. Ironic.
madmom: I THINK that the illegals have the letter “U” before the ID number, otherwise everything else on the drivers license is the same.
While attempting to find a picture of what one looks like, I stumbled upon this site: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/illegal_aliens/index.html Now I usually try not to put other blogs on this one, but as THIS IS an open thread…
VRC said on 11 Oct 2007 at 4:34 pm:
Oh and one another heart-render on PB abortion for anyone interested…
What’s the difference between “partial birth abortion” and murder? About 2 inches.
PWC Schools have the right to require a student to change any wearing apparel that disrupts the educational setting. Apparently, rightly or wrongly, the educational setting was disrupted.
Having said that, it is probably a good idea to not let your kids wear HSM apparel to school. The illegal immigration issue has gotten way too volatile. This is a safety issue.
I will probably ‘out’ myself with this next paragraph. About fifteen years ago, my son was jumped at a local high school by three Hispanic boys. He was seriously injured as he was jumped from behind, hit in the back of the head with one of those old heavy wooden passes, and almost had his eye kicked out. The boy who came to his rescue and kept it from being a 3 on 1 fight was suspended. My kid’s injuries would have been far worse if this other kid had not gotten involved.
The situation apparently started in the library and my son looked at them wrong (facial gesture). In court, the perpetrators did not deny that it started over a facial gesture. If something as horrible as this beating can happen over facial gestures, it can happen over a T-shirt. No one wants a situation like this to happen to their kid. It is safer to keep political statements after school and on weekends.
dolph on 11 Oct 2007 at 5:01 pm:
Well stated. They don’t like a one-on-one situation. That’s why the gang mentality.
Dolph,
I agree. My kids even thought they understand about HSM, are very quiet out of fear because of ms13 gangs, etc in school.
It is not worth the disruption or impending danger because someone maybe unaware and getting second biased hand info. Kids have fought killed over shoes.
Since it is an open thread, I would like to hear the argument of not being pro choice but are for the death penalty?
redawn, I think those being anti-abortion and pro-death penalty believe so because they think fetuses are innocent people, but those on death row did something bad to bring them there. I guess it’s a reasonable conclusion albeit one based on a faulty premise.
VCR,
Thank you for the compliment.
I would like to thank you, for your details on partial birth abortion. I was basing my opinion on what I’d heard while working at a local IVF Institute. Multiple births were very very common. I really tried to stay away from the abortion issue. I am very open minded person, and willing to listen and consider comments.
I would also, like to add using proper birth control methods would certainly help in the reduction of number of abortions.
I’m a “baby freak” actually. Congratulations to your friend and her bundle of joy.
I truly thank you.
Mr. Light,
I’ve always agreed with your comments. Well, I can’t on this one.
Redawn,
Won’t argue. If my two daughters were in a life threatening pregnancy, I would not even attempt to ask that they consider or reject an abortion. But if one of my sons had an opportunity to kill Osama Bin Laden, I’d be more than happy to provide him a gun and the bullets, only after my efforts to convince him to let me do it failed.
VRC, I’m sorry for the typo to screen name.
VRC stands for vast rightwing conspirator but VCR has a catchy ring to it!
Thanks for your courtesy, Lafayette. I really do appreciate your passion on the big issue of the illegal invasion of our community.
Back to the CIP. Most of the money in the CIP that is not funded through grants is funded by debt. So, if the debt has been issued it cannot be stopped. Once a bond is passed there is a limit on the amount of time that the debt can be issued, so there might be room there in transportation but then you run the risk of not following through on bonds/votes.
The only savings to the county really in the CIP would be the operating costs associated with opening a park. So we would have parks ready to be used as the debt has been issued but no staff - they would sit empty. So they would have to complete projects then not open them and such.
The single fastest way to raise cash for immediate use is to cut lay off employees. 50 or 60 would equal about 3 Million but then you would have to do the same thing next year and the year after until the immigration problem is fixed. That could be done however, services would not be as good. From what I have seen compared to other governments, PWC is pretty lean. The biggest salary group are the police but that would be pointless in this discussion.
There are real problems here in PWC from a money perspective - there were plenty before the BOS decided to look at immigration - now it’s not a problem I think it’s a disaster.
Finally, if the financial issues are not fixed, there is the risk of losing the good bond rating which keeps the interests on debt low.
Keokuk,
Thanks. It’s a tough one to call. I guess that is why it should be a choice and not left up to the gov.
I agree - I think the ‘government’ should be busy keeping my roads and borders safe. Separation of church and state has had a good ride here in the USA, but religion is moving in under the guise of morality. I am all for morality, don’t get me wrong.
Regarding what anon said on 11 Oct 2007 at 6:44 pm - The single fastest way to raise cash for immediate use is to cut lay off employees. 50 or 60 would equal about 3 Million
I think your math is off, anon. One person fully loaded (retirement, medical, dental, training, etc.) probably costs the county around 200K per year. Every 5 people the county lays off results in an annual savings of around 1 million dollars. Laying off 50-60 employees would save around 10-12 million dollars annually. Coupling this with a reduction or elimination in the services that they provided results in even more cost savings in terms of reduced facility costs, IT requirements, copy machines, maintenance contracts, etc, etc, etc.
I’m not recommending this as a course of action; however, I am quibling with your estimate. people are a huge cost driver.
Hypothetically, I wonder how much we would save if we cut one Supervisor position (and associates staff)?
I’m glad to hear you’re not agin morality, Once Voice (sp?). I too like morality. In fact, I think morality to a culture is like the water for the living. It creates order and respect and fairness and sacrifice. But I would submit that morality has been spread through the long ages VIA religion, not the other way around. Religion is the primary reason this rusty old Republic has held together for as long as it has, despite feuds and squabbles between the various faiths. Religious folk in the red states are the checks and balances on the secular humanists who are hell-bent (pun not originally intended) on ridding our society of decency and innocence, of civility and traditions.
If you call the maelstrom of societal upheaval we have been all been sucked down into since the 1960s a good ride, I would like to know what you consider a bad one.
If our children are being threatened in school by teenagers who are, or profess to be, ms-13, and it causes stress, why can’t we parents file a class-action suit against the MSF/WWC, et al. Sounds like charges in the complaint that was filed by the pro-illegals in Fairfax yesterday. If they “have a case” then parents certainly do by their encouraging, aiding & abetting the situation.
RWG - I know my math is correct. Averge salary is around 55k with benefits equal to about 30%. Even the four people left would need a copier!
Might be able to sell the PC’s.
Legal2,
We could add to that the devaluation of homes in neighborhoods due “hotel” homes that allow cars parked in the front lawn, chickens, corn planted in the front yard, and trash. If the suit can claim financial harm from the resolution, why can’t I. I spent a year trying to sell my house with this crap going on in the neighborhood.
Regarding what anon said on 11 Oct 2007 at 7:59 pm
Sorry Anon, before I retired, I sold contract services to the Government. Our build-up was (obviously) higher than that of an employee.
I stand (or, sit in front of my monitor) corrected.
Keo, you never know when you might need pictures of those condition - make sure your camera has a date indicator. I am starting a file.
VRC - agree totally with the importance of religion and it’s role in society. Even those that don’t participate formally have regard for its importance and tennets.
What I meant is that legislating morality is not their main function. Seems to me that’s all they are doing. Even though I don’t agree with MOVE ON’s horrible ad, in the twenty minutes congress took to denouce the ad, they could have passed a law or two that might be more useful.
We have been polarized by abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research and so on. I don’t need congress to tell me what to think. I also don’t believe that the purpose of the constitution is to address those issues. I would agree that the states should.
They have lost their focus and use morality a weapon against each other! There are those that use religion as a weapon as well.
I am suggesting that they focus more on their mission and less on my soul
I know where to get help for my soul. Can’t for the life of me figure out where to get help on zoning and illegal immigrants breaking down our schools.
RWG - Thank you. I did not mean to be as stiff as that might have appeared after re-reading it. My pc reverts to anon often and I don’t notice it.
One Voice,
I think we can find common ground here. If we really could have these critical issues be decided by the states I would be a happy camper. I believe the behemoth centralized state is at the root of most of our problems. We can’t even enforce the law to protect our neighborhoods (ridding our communities of illegal invaders) without big brother’s permission.
But in the interim, we have to work within the system we are left with. I see the protection of innocent life, unborn individuals who didn’t ask to be conceived no matter the circumstances, purely as an issue of rights. The right to life, the first right ever transcribed by the geniuses that gave birth to our Republic. (again, no pun intended)
I am with you on abortion - completely. I don’t have daughters so I don’t have to make that decision. I do recognize it is easier to think one way depending on your circumstances. My sister was unable to have children and adopted, so did my closet friend. Then again, I don’t know anyone who has been raped so …..
Yes, we have too much goverment and lately they’ve been too much in our lives ignoring their mission. Then they turn out to have these awful repressive issues that materialize in the rest room!
I have a lot of friends with whom I don’t agree on all issues politically, but we have the same thoughts on personal responsibility, respect for others, right and wrongand some tolerance for those we can’t possibly understand. Finding common ground is what all civilized people should do in order to accmplish change. I have always thought that good manners summed up a person.
Dolph,
Despite having had three teenagers under the same roof at one time - never once did I regret not choosing the abortion option.
That said, I did experience moments of regret for not having left the baby version of offending teen(s) on the church doorstep. Or, for that matter, any other doorstep … far,far away.
This one is for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anSpBUxsgAU
I the county lay’s off employee’s, they need to start with all the bilingual ones they hired to interpret for the illegal’s.
Bridget,
Obviously that was hyberbole. I was being a smart a$$.
Bridget,
That url is hilarious. I would have thanked you in the other post but the offspring of one of the ex teenagers are here and it is bedlam. As you have probably discovered, from your post, it is just never endiing.
RE:Legal2 said on 11 Oct 2007 at 7:48 pm
I see the problem like this, a protection order has no magic protection…..I have seen first hand the outcome of a “protection order” gone wrong.
I saw Deborah Battle’s body laying in the middle of the street on the way to work and getting her kids off to school. ( Point of Woods, December 1998)
I hope I don’t repeat post…I tried 3 times….here is a blurb of the story above.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-579516.html
Dolph,
You are most welcome, glad you enjoyed.
In truth, we still have two teens in tow. My eldest is off at college and far removed from any thoughts of making me a grandmother. Another altered state which, bedlam notwithstand, I have no doubt you would highly recommend.
My youngest is pestering me to get off the computer as I type … something about a vocab list for Latin class and the sorry quality of my last shampoo purchase … would not trade it for the world.
redawn,
Thank you for the link. I know we will never forget that morning at work. In our once quiet and quaint hometown of Manassas. My this place has changed!!
Bridget,
Thank goodness mine are grown. I have paid my dues. The little ones are wonderful and they go home to their house. They do leave a wake of destruction though, before they go.
I’m not surprised the Department of Commerce is included in this lawsuit. It’s director is a man who only advocates for his ethnic group’s priviliges. and rights at the expense of all other individual’s rights.
vcr 3:31 and 4:10 - Yes, it’s wonderful when premies make it. When super-expensive care is available it’s often possible. However, many, many premies suffer later in life.
It seems to me that a lot of people care more about the fetus than they do about the end product. And if you think children are so precious (which I think they are, having raised three of my own), I certainly hope you feel the same for what you call anchor babies. Remember, they were fetuses also once! And you certainly wouldn’t want to get rid of them or not give them a chance to a good life, would you?
Layfayette,
Yes, that was a horrible day! I will never forget it, guess that is why I brought it up again.( I have that image burned in my memory, so sad!) IF only I were there a few minutes earlier I would have at least TRIED to hit him with my car, stopped him someway.
Krutis claims that no one is pro abortion. I don’t agree. After the murders of Lacey Peterson and her unborn child, several states moved to make it a crime to kill a woman’s unborn child. Each one of these laws specifically excluded abortions sought by a pregnant woman, and was specifically aimed at making it a crime to end the life of a fetus against the mother’s will.
The so-called pro choice advocates vigorously opposed these laws, stating they could endanger a woman’s right to seek an abortion. This stance totally ignored the fact the the proposed legislations specifically protected legal abortion.
In other words, they were pro abortion, not pro choice. Real choice comes from being able to decide between two or more options. The pro choice crowd did not wish to protect a woman’s right to carry a baby to full term. That is no choice at all. Those advocates are definitely pro abortion.
Kru, illegals should have their babies - in their native lands - or take them back when they go back!
Here is a fun little quiz:
‘U.S. Citizenship Test: Could You Pass?’
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elementary/?page=Quiz14&Quizid=14>1=10488
“In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot. ~Mark Twain, Notebook, 1935″
VRC said on 11 Oct 2007 at 3:31 pm:
You state that I am not taking “the courageous position” and then recommend that I substitute slavery for abortion. Well frankly, you cannot because one involves the taking away of life whereas the other of liberty.
Arguments can be made in defense of slavery, that the VAST majority WERE NOT mistreated. Heck, Harriet Beecher Stowe had not even visited the South when she wrote her book “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” and the sources of the book were former slaves and other books of which she later admitted she had not ever read. Another argument is that the Bible itself defends slavery by stating, “slaves obey your masters” (Colossians 3-22). No where in the Bible, though, is there a defense of abortion (as I have cited earlier).
I AM NOT DEFENDING SLAVERY…I say that so no one can misinterpret or misquote me, I am just stating the facts. Many of us were taught Civil War history as written by the victors (Federal Govt), but once we went off to college and started reading and doing independent study found out that a lot of history that we were taught growing up was just plain wrong.
So, all that being said, like it or not abortion IS legal in this country. Are all laws of this country Just and Right…absolutely not. Abortion is a vile act that we should do all in our power to eliminate. Again, time and again the feminists and their supporters espouse their love affair of abortion (Clinton used it as a litmus test on Supreme Court nominees). Would I like to see abortion eliminated - yes, I would. But answer this question, VRC, “The black baby born with AIDS, the white baby born with a mental retardation, the unwanted Hispanic baby, the baby born to the 10 year old child…will YOU adopt that child, or should they become a ward of the State (read “taxpayer”)? Frankly, these babies exist and it is a rare person indeed who will adopt them. Lord knows Angelina Jolie won’t.
I am not saying that people should abort babies who have these conditions, but before you say “No abortions under any conditions” make sure that what you are preaching is something you are willing to do yourself. These are tough decisions and as a God-fearing man, I pray that the girl/woman contemplating an abortion turn to God and seek his Guidance in this and all things.
Now concerning Ken’s position, I believe it is dangerous for ANY of us to say “I think that is likely Sen. Cuccinelli’s position.” That is why I suggested contacting the Senator directly, so none of us can put words in his mouth that he may or may not subsribe to, even in the best intentions.
Patriot 3:18 - Are you comparing yourself to the fictitous patriot Twain is writing about? Wow! Great self esteem, I must say.
John Jenkins, you are my hero… Thank you for standing by us! WE need to put pressure on the Governor to re-instate that police fund and even more funding as an apology to screwing our citizen’s for his own personal political gain.
Michael,
I noticed this earlier and wanted to state this ( just didn’t know which thread to do so)
Check out the petition to the Gov at the top of this blog.
It has STOPPED growing. I have had my eye on it.
here is the link
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?VA287g
Since this thread is going all over the place, I just wanted to state to anybody who reads this that our legal community in California has gone “looney”. Why have we created a pack of intellectually challenged judges (should I say legally challenged?) judges in law schools of the 70s, 80s, and 90s? Especially in California?
Judge Breyer in “Caligatyfornia” just indefinately postponed the Bush administration’s attempt to actually crack down on employers of “illegal” aliens allowing employees to knowingly file false SSNs, and who do not do good document checks, background checks, or require proper social security identification (Like a SSN card for example?) to prove that the number “illegals” put down on forged documents, is made up or belongs to some innocent victim, whohas had their identity stolen.
To protect the quilty, we have punished the innocent! What a LEGAL concept!
What an idiot!
The judge is sooo concerned that somebody might have made a mistake and filed an incorrect number with the IRS on a W2. Rather than protect the idendity theft of the victim it was stolen from, the judge elected to protect the people who knowingly put down false numbers and hijacked SSNs and identities. These bad numbers eventually show up on innocent victim’s credit reports and are almost impossible to clear up.
It is not enough that all individuals have to do to prevent being fired by an employer is prove they have a SSN CARD with the correct name on it, or other verification document that identifies they are here “legally”.
How difficult is THAT to do for anyone who is LEGAL? Fear that someone MIGHT get fired if they can’t produce documentation in 90DAYS (THREE MONTHS), is enough to concern the judge that he issues an indefiniate injunction.
That is equivalent to someone being concerned that a poor, poor, person
1. MIGHT get Fired if they commit a crime and can’t prove they didn’t
2. MIGHT get fired if they can’t prove they are here legally
3. MIGHT get fired if they yell at their supervisor and can’t prove they didn’t
4. MIGHT get fired if they steal from the cash register and can’t prove they didn’t do it
5. MIGHT get fired if they lied about being sick and stayed home and can’t prove it with a DR’s appointment.
6, MIGHT get fired if they don’t like an employee and abuse them and can’t prove they didn’t.
7. MIGHT get fired if they lie on their employment application and can’t prove they didn’t.
8. MIGHT get fired if they lie on a security questionaire and can’t prove they didn’t.
9. MIGHT get fired if they fail a drug test and can’t prove they didn’t take drugs.
10. MIGHT get fired if they sleep with the boss’s wife and can’t prove they didn’t.
11. MIGHT get fired if they sexually harrased someone and can’t prove they didn’t.
12. MIGHT get fired if they STOLE company property and can’t prove they didn’t do it.
13. MIGHT get fired if they put political signs up against the current administration in the office and can’t prove they have free speech rights.
14. MIGHT get fired if they surfed PORN on the internet and can’t prove they didn’t do it.
15. MIGHT get fired if they LIE on their resume about the college they went to and can’t show a diploma as proof.
16. MIGHT get fired if they PEE in public and can’t prove they didn’t.
17. MIGHT get fired if they get caught by the police trying to solicit homosexual advances in the bathroom of an airport and can’t prove they didn’t.
18. MIGHT get fired if they LET terrorists build a bomb with company resources and don’t report it.
19. MIGHT get fired if they FAIL a public common sense test and can’t prove they are smart enough for the job.
20. MIGHT get fired if they make bad politically motiviated decisions as a JUDGE and GET CAUGHT DOING IT.
Poor, poor person who made a mistake on their SSN W-2 statement, let’s all protect them, and ASSUME there is JUST NO WAY they can prove a mistake was made. WE don’t want to CARE as a JUDGE that the life of an IDENTITY THEFT VICTIM is destroyed. As the GREAT intellectual we know what is best for our community and its citizens.
WHAT a pathetic decision!
Redawn, I am sorry to hear that. We need to take it door to door now. We may have reached the limit of the internet access to people who might care about it. Most people don’t have time to read blogs, but have time to discuss politics at public forums and on the streets.
Just 2 more cases of ID FRAUD in our area:
http://www.manassasparkpolice.com/press_release.htm
Date of Release: 100107
Type of Offense: Possess Fraudulent Social Security Card
Dates of Occurrence: 100207 2021
Location: 200 Block Manassas Drive
Vehicles Involved:
Suspects:
Arrests: David Enriquez, 33, 295 Manassas Drive
Officer responded to a verbal domestic. Upon arrival, complainant pointed to Mr. Enriquez in a vehicle. While obtaining identification, the officer observed a social security card which Mr. Enriquez admitted was fake. He was subsequently charged with possession of a fraudulent Social Security card with a court date of November 15, 2007.
MANASSAS PARK POLICE
Date of Release: 101007
Type of Offense: False Identity
Dates of Occurrence: 100807 1848
Location: Centreville Road near Aarons Rental
Vehicles Involved: 1995 Dodge Avenger
Suspects:
Arrests: Juan Gomez-Vasquez, 21, no fixed address
Vehicle stopped for traffic infraction. Mr. Gomez-Vasquez gave officer a false name, said he had no forms of identification, and didn’t know his address. While waiting for his vehicle to be towed, Mr. Gomez-Vasquez admitted he had given false information. He was charged with No Operator’s License and Giving False Identity to a Law Enforcement Officer, transported to ADC, and held without bail. Court date 110807
i’m eric. joining a couple boards and looking
forward to participating. hehe unless i get
too distracted!
eric