Tear Down That Wall!
By Greg L | 3 November 2007 | Manassas City | 218 Comments
Apparently, Mr. Fernandez and his allies from Mexicans Without Borders have gotten some assistance from someone who can actually spell in English for a new version of their outrageous effort to deface the historic district in Manassas. A new sign is under construction at the property this evening. The Mayor and City Council is reportedly outraged, as the demolition permit for this property has expired. The City of Manassas’ forbearance of Mr. Fernandez’s willful violations of city zoning ordinances should, and is likely coming quickly to an end.
This is a billboard, and establishing billboards in the City of Manassas is strictly regulated. The city apparently felt that it would be best to tolerate this violation of city ordinances out of a deference towards Mr. Fernandez’s interest in making a political statement during a time of significant emotional engagement in a political debate. That decision to not enforce zoning ordinances has only encouraged further unlawful activity, and while that decision was a good one then, it’s pretty clear that the time has come for the city to start enforcing ordinances regarding signage in the city.
I don’t blame them for their previous decision. It gave Mr. Fernandez a chance to blow off some steam, and assuming that he would eventually comply with the law, the expectation would clearly have been that he would complete demolition of this property as required. Now that Mr. Fernandez has demonstrated that he has no interest in adhering to legal orders and zoning ordinances of the city, it’s time to put an end to this.
It’s time to ensure this outrage is demolished.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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[Ed note: off-topic rant removed.]
SEE Give Fernandez and MWB an inch, they’ll take a yard - knowing they were given a break the first time, they defy, and do it again. What arrogance, what disrespect. The Mayor and City Council need to take action NOW.
Old School Republican said on 3 Nov 2007 at 11:43 pm:
I have no objection to pseudonyms as a rule, but this particular one is REALLY insulting. “Old School Republicans,” at least from Virginia, would NEVER say any such thing. Now…it does depend upon your definition of “Old School.” If it should happen to be within the past 40 years, I can speak to that with some authority.
I suggest that a more proper pseudonym would be “Unitarian Church Activist” or, perhaps, “Rishell Supporter”…that would be far more appropriate.
I have honestly never heard as much subliminal and overt hatred spewed as I have on this blog recently. Unfortunately, much of it has been done by people who trumpet their Christianity at every turn. I am shocked, disappointed, and saddened.
This brand of Christianity is not what I have learned my entire life. No thank you. I will just stick with my own mainstream brand of Golden Rule Christianity.
I have begun to feel like wearing garlic wreaths and holding up a cross every time I log on to this blog for several weeks now. Please do not respond. I do not want to hear anyone defend behavior I vigorously and vehemently disapprove of.
[Ed note: this comment relates to postings that have been removed.]
addendum: For clarification, my above comment has nothing to do with the wall or lead in comments by Greg about the wall.
Let’s hope that this bill board comes down soon. People supporting those that have broken our laws, breaking the law themselves. Are we really surprised?
Back to the topic at hand, this ridiculous illegal billboard was on the 11:00 Channel 4 newscast. Expect an awful lot of hand wringing when they force them to remove this. Oh the oppression!
The sign is an eye-sore regardless of intent or political message. Even withhout the sign, the remains of the building are ugly and should be removed. The City of Manassas and local merchants have done a great deal with downtown beautification and the sign is just plain old butt-ugly. I hope the city will exercise its authority and force the removal all existing structures ordered for demolition on this property.
The point has been made. Shock and awe accomplished. Now tear the damn thing down.
They use this property frequently. They even have two port-a-jons on the property.
As a city resident I am offended that this has been allowed to go on in the historic district of Old Town Manassas. Enough is enough.
I bet the city will be inundated with phone calls come Monday.
AW - I read the first comment that, thank goodness, has been removed. I gasped at what the writer produced. Worse than anything I’ve seen on any blog. For you to say that it might have been from a “Unitarian Church Activist” is incredibly off base. You must not know what Unitarians stand for or know any Unitarians. What on earth have Unitarian done to you, pray tell? Go atone!
Imagine that….illegals and their supporters performing something “illegal”. What a concept!
http://www.reportillegals.com/law.html
Use this link to report illegal aliens and legal residents who are “aiding and abetting”. It is time to root these people out!
I think that this sign is so ridiculous. The illegal immigrants are saying that Americans are being so racist towards them, yet here they are, disrepecting our home, our town. They want us to be more fair towards them?! Maybe they should start showing a little respect for us!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MuyiPi53jc&NR=1
This video is a gem! Home Depot is a disgrace! Check out the section when the “peaceful” man gets out of his truck with what appears to be an alcoholic beverage and starts trouble!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqL2PKE3p6E
And we want these people as our neighbors? I don’t think so.
TEAR DOWN THE WALL. TEAR DOWN THE WALL.
It’s called free speech. I spent a good part of my life in uniform defending the Constitution and take offense at those who lack the tolerance to allow others to state their opinions. We all have the right to disagree. If you do not respect the right of others to share differing opinions, you really don’t “get” the Constitution and our Democratic form of Government.
Politicians know that results come from of dialog and answers tend to lie somewhere in the middle. You’ve already seen that with the final Immigrant Resolution… compromise. Intolerance is the enemy of dialog and solutions. Have any of you actually attempted constructive dialog with the opposition to develop community solutions?
Surprisingly, I’m not in disagreement with many of your opinions, I just find your self righteous, bible based attitude offensive. The blog has really taken on a racist tone lately. I see nothing but hate directed specifically at Hispanics. sounds like a KKK front these days.
I judge men by their friends. If you are Corey Stewart’s and John Stirrup’s constituency, they both have to go.
Thanks, Patriot. I will NEVER patronize Home Depot again. First, a friend hired by HD in Manassas is told he better learn to understand spoken, and read written, spanish orders - he quit. These videos just solidify my perception of HD.
Our councils, boards and law enforcement must get tough with the behavior of bold lawbreakers.
It’s been said that California is about 10 years ahead of the rest of the nation - the activities of Mexicans without Borders in our area of late looks like we are in for this crap if we don’t put the brakes on now. This is why, no matter how you feel about other issues, we need to keep the momentum going with Stewart, Stirrup & O’Brien (and defeat Colgan) - GOTV!
Fatigued - what happened, did you stay up late working on “the wall”?
fatigued,
I spend all of my time in uniform and while I agree that free speech is what this country is based on I would hope that you agree that this country is built on following the law.
The sign is illegal in it’s current format, the land owner has over-extended his permit and was supposed to demolish the sign i.e. the wall should not even be there now. If he’s painting the wall it would suffice to say that he has no plans on following the law thus it should be torn down. As greg mentioned above, this isnt a sign..it’s a freakin’ billboard! Where is the respect for his neighbors or community? Easy to see he has none of that.
looking at the issue logically says that the wall should go, it’s also unsafe. I myself has seen this wall and can easily say that it appears to be a major safety hazard and I’m pretty sure the community around him and the city would agree on this. I doubt this wall will last.
“Back to the topic at hand, this ridiculous illegal billboard was on the 11:00 Channel 4 newscast. Expect an awful lot of hand wringing when they force them to remove this. Oh the oppression!”
More than likely if the city tries to force this thing to come down it will find itself at the other end of a first amendment lawsuit filled by the ACLU. And furthermore, the city has to be incredibly careful in using zoning laws and the enforcement of existing zoning laws in cracking down on what is considered to be political speech. This stuff is absolutley protected by law, and not just on the merits of the first amendment itself, but there is a mountain of case law regarding political speech and zoning/land use law.
This wall is on private property, period full stop. The permit was for demolition, if the owner of the property wants to leave a wall up, he is free to do so. What he cannot do is knock the wall down without going in and requesting a new permit for demolition of the wall since the previous permit has expired. The city may have some complaint in that I’m assuming the initial permit was to demolish the entire structure and the owner probably should have ammended the permit if he wanted to keep the wall up. That said, the city has little or no recourse for FORCING the destruction of the wall. It’s private property, and the sign in question is ,without a doubt, constitutionally protected political speech under the First Amendment.
My guess is the city will do absolutely nothing given that the cost of doing anything would be prohibitive, long-term, and at the expense of the taxpayers.
I hope it gets a few more people to the polls tuesday.
I read the sign. It really isn’t offensive. In fact, it’s a great sentament and could be used by either (all?) sides in this debate (I assume you all consider yourselves good men). I’m guessing it is protected free speech.
Some “nutcase” will probably firebomb it. That’s the person we should figure out how to deport.
“They use this property frequently. They even have two port-a-jons on the property.”
“As a city resident I am offended that this has been allowed to go on in the historic district of Old Town Manassas. Enough is enough.”
Just like home! No difference really, except the inclusion of “port-a-pottys” the use the street back home. I have been there, so please don’t think I am making it up.
“It’s called free speech. I spent a good part of my life in uniform defending the Constitution and take offense at those who lack the tolerance to allow others to state their opinions. We all have the right to disagree. If you do not respect the right of others to share differing opinions, you really don’t “get” the Constitution and our Democratic form of Government.”
FREE SPEECH! Try that in Mexico, you better read their constitution like I have. You as a foriegner CANNOT protest in the streets, you go to jail. From witch you may not come out of upright.
Our 1st amendment is for CITIZENS of the United States of America. The use of FREE speech should not be in defense of illegal aliens, doesn’t mater to me were they are from, be it Ireland or Argentine or Canada. Illegal Is Illegal!
Re what Legal2 said on 4 Nov 2007 at 9:32 am: - Fatigued - what happened, did you stay up late working on “the wall”?
Nope, Legal2. Surprisingly, I am (was) on your side. The blog entries recently have me reconsidering. I don’t think the County can take four more years of this.
Agree with old soldier (what he said on 4 Nov 2007 at 9:50 am) regarding who we should really be deporting.
What Dennis said on 4 Nov 2007 at 9:50 am: - FREE SPEECH! Try that in Mexico…
Dennis, we are not in Mexico. Every soldier is familiar with the quote from Voltaire, “I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it”
And, Dennis, the Supreme Court has ruled that the Constitution (including the First Amendment) applies to everyone within our borders (including illegal immigrants). I actually worked on something called the definition of person for the Patriot Act. Legally, anyone within our borders is considered a U.S. Person protected by the Constitution and enjoys the same safeguards and protections.
That’s what stops cops from arresting people from “driving while black or brown” or arresting someone because they are wearing a turban. We still have a lot of problems with race in this Country (as evidenced by this blog). Yes, this includes any terrorist who makes it across the border (the people I think we should really be worrying about).
the real tragedy here is not the message the billboard purports, from what little I can view it’s pretty non-partisan and was obviously generated by someone with some literary knowledge (unlike the previous incarnation)
it’s the fact that they property owner does not have consideration for the law and his neighbors. I doubt his neighbors in that historic area are very happy with his new construction.
What we are seeing (not just the wall) is the best example as to why we must deal with the illegal alien problem PWC has, NOW. Soon, it may be too late. We can not back down, we can not bend, we can not be defeated by those that support 10’s of millions of law breakers, criminals, illegal aliens. They have NO right to be here and as long as I am living I will continue to have my voice heard as a law abiding citizen of this country. I believe the wall has two purposes, one is for the billboard and the other is to taunt us. I believe they are hoping that this will cause individuals to go onto the private property and destroy the wall. It wouldn’t surprise me if they have hidden cameras there, waiting for it to happen, so that they can again say how bad we all are. I notice that the group is only allowing those that speak English onto the property, so when the cameras come and people start saying learn English, they can all stand up and say they all do know English. Well, if they all speak English, why are the stores putting up signs in Spanish and why are people wanting jobs in this County, increasing being asked if they speak Spanish?
fatigued - Using comments on this blog to guide “what side you are on” is misguided. Did you consider:
1. Anybody can comment on this blog - so there is no way of knowing if it is someone local or someone in another part of the world that learned of BVBL through the media.
2. Nothing stops the pro-illegal crowd from making comments here under the guise that they are radical anti-illegal supporters, with the intent of making us look bad.
The sign has been an interesting topic of conversation and ultimately we have BVBL and HSM to thank for it. Had they not pushed for the resolution (a thinly disguised attempt to rid the city and county of Hispanics - legal or not), there’d be no sign. Simple physics - an equal and opposite reaction.
The sign as it remains has brought up interesting discussion and maybe paved the way for residents to learn more about freedom of speech, demolition permits, the artful use of the media, violence (firebombs and hate speech), mob mentality, communal shame, and how taxpayer funds can be wasted for resolutions that do nothing to address the problems(overcrowding, trash, etc.) in the county’s neighborhoods that brought HSM residents together to begin with. It’s precipitated a great wail of angst and a lot of hot air.
The City of Manassas tried working with the property owner for quite sometime after the house caught on fire, and the owner did nothing, but let the place get in worse condition. He clearly has no respect for our laws/government. He’s clearly not complied with zoning laws and has let his permit for demolition expire, and did no demolition. The time has come that the MC must consider condemnation of the property.
The owner’s behavior reinterates why we must call on the minorest of Zoning/Building Code Violations. Once, they see they can break a minor law and get by with it. They will the take their law breaking to the next level(more serious crimes).
We must nip this crap in the bud, and send a clear message.
We won’t tolerate anymore destruction of quaility of life and the American Culture. Is there still an American Culture?
Isn’t a Port-a-Potty a tricked out OUTHOUSE? Which haven’t been permitted for decades.
This is Historic District in the heart of the City of Manassas.
Josh,
How’s that darn 7-11?
Starryflights,
“I notice that the group is only allowing those that speak English onto the property, so when the cameras come and people start saying learn English, they can all stand up and say they all do know English. ”
How do you know this? Have you seen Spanish speakers only denied access to the property? Since it’s private property, don’t you think that the owner has the right to deny access to anyone he chooses?
Ya know…have not been by that 7-11 in about a week, I just got back from New Orleans where I spent a week (over Halloween I might add) I’ll have to say that Halloween in the french quarter is pretty wild and I’m spending my weekend recovering from the shock to my system
As for the tricked out outhouse..maybe they should put some hydraulics on those babies to pimp them up even more
Lafayette,
“He’s clearly not complied with zoning laws and has let his permit for demolition expire, and did no demolition.”
Obviously there’s been demolition. Which zoning laws did he not comply with originally? I’d like to do more research. I realize that the new sign appears as more of a billboard than the old one, but we’ll have to see if freedom of speech trumps the zoning/building codes.
What G Man said on 4 Nov 2007 at 10:36 am
Fair questions. My family settled in Massachusetts in 1632 and now consists of bloodlines from most European nations and the Far East. We have fought in every war on this Continent even before the United States was a country. I have relatives buried in Valley Forge and many National Cemeteries both in the United States and overseas. I was a career Army Officer followed by many years with three letter agencies I can’t mention. I have been a Virginia resident for 35 years (between wars) and a Prince William County Resident for 20 years. I have a letter from the President of the Unites States on my mantle thanking me for my service against the War on Terror. To validate that I’m a PWC resident, I favor the Okra restaurant in Old Town Manassas and hated to see Jake’s close (I liked their Prime Rib). So, who are you, G-man? If you are FBI (as G-man implies) you understand the Constitution and the U.S. Person issue .
That being said, The message on the Billboard in downtown Manassas is pure genius. I wouldn’t care if it were written on main street in yellow paint, (in my opinion) it should stay a while to remind us of something fundamental in our community. It has nothing particularly to do with this issue. The billboard is on private property (and Virginia’s culture favors property owners). It’s protected free speech. It will eventually fall over; however, I honestly hope the sentiment endures.
I think that the only people who will feel threatened by this sign are those who think they are the “bad people” it refers to. I would suggest you take the high ground and not validate this (as this blog appears to do so far) and move on.
The best thing someone could do for the Prince William County Democratic Party is firebomb this sign before the election.
Anabel is being interviewed on Channel 7 now!!!
Mr. Fernandez, tear down this wall!
Anonymous @10:51,
I disagree demoltion was NOT complete. The house had four sides, and they only removed three sides. Remember, the wall is actually the fourth side of the house.
I have a feeling freedom of speech might prevail over the zoning laws.
Lafayette said on 4 Nov 2007 at 10:53 am:
Anabel is being interviewed on Channel 7 now!!!
I was just going to post that! I just watched it! Still a bit “slanted” if you ask me! I would have to disagree with her statement that most on this issue just want to stop the fighting - I think most Americans want to stop the illegal invasion!
I watched Anabel and I strongly disagree with her. The majority of U.S. citizens have had enough. Stop the illegal alien invasion!
Oldsoldier, as they said during the race riots in LA, can’t you feel their pain? or does that only go for a particular race? Have we not the right to defend our borders, property and the rule of law? Are we not the “oppressed” who need to overthrow the status quo, and enforce existing (ignored) laws?
Lafayette,
I was disagreeing with your statement that he did no demolition. He indeed demolished most of the structure.
Manassascityresident,
Anabel has stated that she has a hard time finding regular citizens to go on camera to discuss their views. They claim that they fear the reaction of others. I agree with her that most people don’t like the fighting that has broken out in the community…and there’s plenty of blame for both sides . I think most people are in the middle, not on HSM’s side or MWB’s.
MCR,
Well, we agree once again!! Anabel is definately still a bit “slanted”. I was IM friend with that very statement.
Get out if my head!!-lol
Stop the ILLEGAL INVASION, indeed. While we’re at let’s roll up the “red carpet” that’s been getting plusher for the illegals. Come here legally and embrace the American Culture and way of life, and you are more the WELCOME here. However, come here illegally, you are NOT WELCOME here in our great nation.They’ve broken the law just by their mere existance north of the border! It’s all about the RULE OF LAW, and NOTHING to with race!!
anonymoustoo/all
I’m sorry, that was a typo. My intention was he DID NOT complete the demolition.
Start reporting illegals and legal residents (that are “aiding and abetting”). That is the problem. Many legal residents are aiding and abetting which is a Felony.
We can start with the video from Oct. 16th. People on camera had to give their names and addresses. So there is some information on these people. Who is a lawyer that can make this happen?
If it is not about race, is all about hispanics? Seems to me the people who blew up the World Trade Center werent’ hispanics. But I guess that is ok because there aren’t a lot of “them” who live in Manassas. It is about race and it is about economic status. If your children were starving would you break the law of another country to feed them? Or would you just sit and do nothing?
Many of you are all just missing the simple fact here, irrespective of the plight of these people: they are all illegal and are criminals. Period. The end. What is so hard to understand about this??
If I go to Mexico and act a fool and demand rights, steal from the country, harass its citizens, et al, I would expect a lot worse punishment than what these people have received. I mean seriously how does anyone defend this??????
Jones, your logic is ridiculous. Would you rob banks if your children were starving? There are legal ways for people to take care of their families.
Not in third world countries. Their option is to stay and have their children starve or try to give them a better live.
People can make (demand) change in their own countries! So what you are saying is they can steal from us (which is what they are doing)?
As far as having kids….they (the parents) need to be personally responsible for their kids. Maybe they shouldn’t have so many (if they clearly know they do not have the means to support them)?????
I have two “bunk house” situations in my neighborhood. Unknown cars and people come at all hours of the day (mostly between mid-night and 3am - yes I actually see the cars and there usually are more than one that come and go at the same time). This disturbs me greatly! There are a lot of children in my neighborhood. Our neighborhood that was once quiet and safe now has a bunch of unknown people coming and going. Our neighborhood now is becoming a wild west town where you never know who’s coming and going. This must stop.
Regarding what Fatigued said on 4 Nov 2007 at 10:52 am: - The best thing someone could do for the Prince William County Democratic Party is firebomb this sign before the election.
He’s right! Regardless of what you think of the sign, it’s a fuse waiting to be lit. I suspect the folks who put it up understand this. The best thing HSM could do between now and the elections on Tuesday is post a round the clock guard on the sign to protect it from some “nut case” who doesn’t understand the big picture. If residents wake up to pictures of a damaged or firebombed sign, for example, it would probably make a lot of new Democrats out of the independents in PWC and send people to the poles who usually don’t vote.
Guarding the sign would also be a great public relations move if handled correctly (protecting free speech).
Regarding what Legal2 said on 4 Nov 2007 at 11:03 am - I’m not disagreeing. I’m reflecting on how people see themselves. I think enforcing the law is the right side of this issue. I’m not sure everyone is confident of their position on this issue or how the community sees them. While our cause may be just, Virginia’s history with race relations is a dubious one. We must be very careful to stay within the context of established law. I’m afraid “we” (just read this blog) have turned this into a race issue citing anidotal Hispanic misconduct a few too many times. We need to move to higher ground.
Old soldier, people are reporting the facts (videos, news stories, etc.). Everyone has a right to know the truth. These things are not just happening in our local community. Just take a look at the reports from all across our country. This is a systemic problem now.
Change the hour and minute on this blog to reflect new.
I would not call the new message non-partisan. It’s great that it is obviously more sophisticated than the other one. It still includes inaccurate information because nobody is being denied education. The only opportunities that are being denied by the resolution are ones that they are not legally entitled to in the first place.
I also think that opposing illegal immigration can be done while respecting their human dignity. Because someone lacked the dignity to come in the legal way and behaves in a very disrespectful way towards our country doesn’t mean that we are correct in insulting and degrading them. Two wrongs do not make a right. They can be sent to jails if they break the law and deported with dignity.
There’s alot said here on the blog.That does not mean that I or any of the contributers agree with all that is said.
But I can tell you for a fact if we don’t stop this lawlessness now ,we will be like Calif. and it will be like a war within our states.
That is what the illegals want and we must stop them now.It has nothing to do with KKK or anyother leftist group.
Our Ordinances need to be perked up and get rid of the 15/20 cars that are at a residential house being repaired and it’s been that way for 10 years.
Someone ,police, needs to put this guy in jail and haul off the cars and sell them for junk.
Everyone says the police can’t go on private property ,like the 7/11 and arrest those that lay around there all day. Plus they use the area for their
hourly urination and others. This is riduculous, lets get them away from these properties now.
WE WANT OUR COMMUNITY BACK.
anon….they can receive the same amount of dignity that our U.S. Citizen criminals receive right? Since legal residents that aid and abet are FELONS they can receive the same dignity that other felons receive.
Please note:
- Manassas City is NOT part of Prince William County
and was not a party to the PWC resolution. Cities
in Virginia are autonomous. Not sure some folks
realize that fact.
Old Soldier,
With regards to moving to a higher ground, I agree somewhat. However, the misconduct is most blantantly displayed by the Hispanics. I’m sure there are illegal aliens from several countries. The Hispancs have chosen not to embrace America, instead they demand things of our government. Immigrants from other spots around the globe tend to embrace our way of life, and they learn to speak English, and aren’t demanding they try to blend in. Take a look at some of the violations and loitering around the county.
http://community.webshots.com/user/Lafayette13
P.S. If I saw other people acting this way I would take pictures of that too.
Re what the Patriot said on 4 Nov 2007 at 11:42 am
Patriot, I absolutely agree with your assessment of the problem. Like all problems, there are two sides. I fear (and I may be wrong) that our tone lately may cause people to move to the “other side” because they are uncomfortable with the company they would have to keep on this side. We are often “preaching to the converted” while “alienating the potential converts.” That serves no useful purpose.
I know that sounds harsh; however, I detect a note of racism and arrogance in some of the posts lately that does not serve our purpose this close to the election. Helping inflame the opposition this close to an election is probably not a worthy goal.
In retrospect, the best thing we could do is “go silent” on this issue until after the election (and forget about the sign for a couple of days).
I assume we do want to win on Tuesday? Any new topics for the blog?
That’s just my opinion… worth what you paid for it (I know I’ll get a witty reply for this close).
Big Dog
Clearly these folks don’t realize that the two cities have their own set of laws. Hopefully, the two cities will consider passing similar resolutions. That’s my hope. What do think?
I don’t live in the City, but have relatives that have lived there well over 70 years. I think the two cities need to be on the same page as PWC. The two cities do benefit from our courts and jail, as you well know.
I’m going over there directly to see if they’ve added anything new. Have you seen it this morning?
I will never “go silent” on this issue. Being silent is what got us into this mess in the first place. Everyone was worried about being pc. PC is nothing but deception and smoke screens. The truth hurts, but it must be told. I posted above about the two bunk houses in my neighborhood. These types of things erode our neighborhoods that were once quiet and safe.
Furthermore, this problem is systemic (I mentioned this earlier). We see the same patterns locally as we do across our entire country. Our problem is not isolated (which means something of a larger scale is going on).
Brighter Future said on 4 Nov 2007 at 11:49 am:
But I can tell you for a fact if we don’t stop this lawlessness now ,we will be like Calif. and it will be like a war within our states.
That is what the illegals want and we must stop them now.It has nothing to do with KKK or anyother leftist group.
I certainly do not think that most illegal immigrants want war.
The KKK is not a leftist group. Good grief. Next thing you know, we will have them here at war with us over calling them names!
Once we start seeing legal residents who are “aiding and abetting” (which is a FELONY) get put in jail locally, we will begin to see results! Start reporting suspcious activity!
The Patriot,
Our sitting back being complacent and pc is exactly got us to where we are today. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
This is invasion is nationwide!! I’ve seen myself in two small WV towns of Moorefield and Petersburg(est. pop. 10,000)
*off topic*
Ms Peterson the teacher that went missing with the 13yr old boy. She is now in custody, and the boy is in Mexico. He may not be able to return to the US. They are checking into his LEGAL STATUS.Hmm. These enablers are as bad as the illegal aliens themselves. Just look at Nancy and John Steinbach!
Wanna bet the City will do nothing to remove that sign. I am sure the group(s) that are supporting it have checked out the legal ramifications before they went ahead with this “project.” Expect to see more law suits if the City forces the removal of the sign.
Dolph,
How about a “field trip” by the sign. Are you game?-lol
There are a couple of ways the City Could handle this. First, the property is zoned residential. That means any structure on the property must be a residential building. One wall doesnt meet this test. The city Could condemn the structure, forcing the demolition. But this wouldn’t prevent them from just putting posts in the ground and putting the sign back up. Since the property is in a special zoning district the city can regulate the size of signage. They can force the owner to make the sign smaller.
In the end, the owner is doing more harm to his cause than good. Citizens are getting angry, and when they do, they get involved. It won’t be long before they start to demand a PWC-type resolution here. Also, sympathy for illegals will evaporate even faster. Considering Manassas is entering a local election cycle, the owner is actually helping to elect candidates who will crack down on illegals.
I agree with zoning guy. It actually awakens people to this major problem of ours!
Zoning Guy,
Thank you very much!
The owner is definately doing more harm than good to his cause. I think folks will be demanding action on this one very soon as they should.
Zoning Guy,
Thank you very much for your enlightenment for all. I have to call PWC Zoning everyday for something. Not as familiar with the laws in both cities. All must report violations when spotted the Zoning/Building Code Depts. this is the only way to clean this place up.
I’ve lived here my whole life. This hardly seems like the quiet hick town it was once thought of.
I love the sign. I wish there was such a sign on every corner to remind you all that the solutions so far offered to deal with the illegal immigrants are actions that mask the intolerance of immigrants from Mexico and from other Spanish speaking countries south of our border. Why aren’t you focusing your angst on Frank Wolf? It’s your Congressman in Washington who has responsibility for the situation. Those laws to preclude receipt of some services by illegal immigrants just passed by the Board of Supervisors is a joke.
P.S. Zoning guy doesn’t know Manassas ordinances.
And Lafayette, if you have lived here all of your life and considered yourself a resident of a “hick town”, I hope you are looking for another hometown. I’ve lived here all of my life and it’s never occurred to me that I was a “hick”.
First, I happen to agree the sign is atrocious as was the previous one. But care needs to be taken not to mix up two issues.
The issue of the incomplete demolition and the maintenance of an attractive nuisance will be handled by the Zoning and Building Inspection Departments. That will take some time as I am sure there is a very complex bureaucratic process that will have to be followed.
The issues of the sign is another matter. The sign is Constitutionally protected “political speech” and even though some of us do not like the content and the persons involved, there is little we can, or should, do about it.
Those that are advocating the use of zoning and building ordinances to take down the sign are in error. The local government cannot legally apply land-use ordinances to stifle free speech.
The only time I’ve ever seen police powers used to move or remove a sign was when the sign interfered with the sight-distance at an intersection and created a danger to traffic and pedestrians. That does not appear to be a problem with the current sign.
Even after the formal process causes the building (wall) to be removed, the property owner can come right back and erect another sign on the property and say whatever is on his mind.
I would council that the best course of action is to ignore this situation and if asked about the sign simply respond, “What sign?” When the property owner stops get a reaction, the signs will disappear.
“There are a couple of ways the City Could handle this. First, the property is zoned residential. That means any structure on the property must be a residential building. One wall doesnt meet this test. ”
Actually, that’s not entirely true Zoning Guy. Zoned “residential” actually applies to the type of structures that cannot exist on the property more than it does to the types of structures the MUST exist on the property. The zoning law almost certainly says nothing about partial structers. And depending on the actually designation (single family, multiply family etc) of the property, there are al kinds of structures beyond “residential” that are allowed as per the City of Manassa Zoning codes.
“The city Could condemn the structure, forcing the demolition. But this wouldn’t prevent them from just putting posts in the ground and putting the sign back up. ”
Indeed, this is the only option available to the City of Manassas. they would have to condemn the structure; which is actually much easier said than done. And given that the “structure” in question is so tied to the sign which is protected as “political speech” the City of Manassas would find itself under intense scrutiny (in fact some might use the term “strict scrutiny”) in an effort to condemn the structure. The City would have to prove without a doubt the structure was indeed so dangerous to the public at large it warrants government interference with a private citizens use of private land. Pretty high bar to pass considering the structure isn’t really in danger of injuring anyone at all.
“Since the property is in a special zoning district the city can regulate the size of signage. They can force the owner to make the sign smaller.”
Actually, Zoning Guy, that’s not the case. This sign falls under a particular category of signs stipulated by the city itself as “not requiring a permit” and hence is not under the purview of that kind of government regulation. In addition, one quick glance at the zoning code for signage in Manassas will show that this sign comports with every regulation the city has put in place for those sign which it deems “permitable.” Once again, the creators of this sign have clearly done their homeworkl. Perhaps the City of Mannassas could attempt to regulate the sign even if it’s political speech based on the sheer size of the sign. but that’s going to be a difficult case for the City to make given that the sign follows the guidlines and regulations the city has defined as “acceptable signage” in its own zoning code.
Sec. 130-127. Signs not requiring permit.
The following signs do not require a permit:
(1) The changing of message content on a changeable message sign.
(2) City signs, including but not limited to traffic control signs, signals, regulatory devices, legal announcements, historical markers and directional signs.
(3) National, state or local flags which are displayed for the purpose of expressing one’s patriotism or support of the designated emblem and can in no way be construed as a business sign, otherwise prohibited. No flag may be located on a pole more than 25 feet in height.
(4) Address signs not exceeding two square feet.
(5) Small signs displayed for the direction or convenience of the public, including signs that identify restroom, public telephone, entrance, exit, freight entrance or the like with a sign area not exceeding three square feet.
(6) Signs not exceeding one square foot indicating the location of underground public utilities.
(7) Seasonal displays or decorations, not advertising a product, service or entertainment.
(8) Signs, not exceeding two square feet, warning the public against hunting, fishing, trespassing, dangerous animals, swimming or the like.
(9) Contractors signs. Only one sign per contractor shall be permitted for each development, not exceeding 32 square feet.
(10) Real estate signs advertising the sale or lease of the premises only. Such signs shall not exceed four square feet for single-family and townhouse properties, or 18 square feet for multifamily residential, commercial and industrial properties.
(11) Political signs on private property.
(12) Interior paper window signs. In addition to the signs permitted elsewhere in this article, interior window signs are permitted provided they are located on the inside of the glass and not displayed for longer than 30 consecutive days.
(13) Temporary signs. In addition to those permitted in subsection (12) of this section, signs intended to notify the public of special events, grand openings or other significant temporary occurrences, not of a recurring nature, excluding special sales and other common merchandising events, may be erected for no more than 60 consecutive days.
(Code 1978 § 34.1-50; Ord. No. O-2000-13, § 34.1-50, 1-24-2000; Ord. No. O-2001-29, § 34.1-50, 6-18-2001)
Lafayette said on 4 Nov 2007 at 10:53 am:
Anabel is being interviewed on Channel 7 now!!!
Annabel appears to be a provocateur. Her video appears to be slanted towards the illegal side of the problem.
Patryot,
I see you are usual self today. Re-read I wrote. “hick town that is was once THOUGT OF”. That is what the rest of the NoVA area thought of us. I NEVER said it was my opinion!! Perhaps, I should’ve been clearer for you and those like you(baiters and pot stirrers). I consider myself a true blue American, and if you grew up here too, you should feel the same way. Clearly you don’t by the things you write, and your improper spelling of PATRIOT. We know who the REAL Patriot is on here!
corr
Re-read WHAT I wrote.
“Once we start seeing legal residents who are “aiding and abetting” (which is a FELONY) get put in jail locally, we will begin to see results! Start reporting suspcious activity!”
“I have to call PWC Zoning everyday for something.”
Statements like these are what get you labelled a crackpot or nuisance rather than getting your complaints resolved. You begin to sound like the neighborhood tattletale or scold. Pick the most egregious situation and report that. Get that resolved and move to the next.
I have to ask…have any of you talked to the people creating these problems in your neighborhoods or do you immediately reach for the phone to call the city or county to handle your problems? I realize that some of your neighborhoods now have multiple problems, but it didn’t start out that way. In the beginning did you try to actually resolve these problems by talking to your neighbors?
BTW, Patriot, I thought you lived in Independent Hill. Where are the problems there? (This blog isn’t suffering from the same condition that led to a partially decline in Too Conservative’s readership is it?) As we drove to the landfill today, I saw two men sitting in front of Blooms but I was on Dumfries Road so I couldn’t discern their ethnicity, Patriot.
Jones on 4 Nov 2007 at 11:24 am:
If your children were starving would you break the law of another country to feed them? Or would you just sit and do nothing?
What is the basis of your statement that their “children were starving.” It has been said that most of these illegal aliens had jobs before they invaded this country. True, they were not making $10.00 an hour in Mexico. That (MONEY) is the force that is driving them not love for this country. They have no allegiance to this country and our government, by means of such nonsense as the Senate’s last two “comprehensive immigration” bills are actually forcing them to become citizens. Temporary worker program means exactly what is says - TEMPORARY!
I don’t agree with what the signs, but I do respect “freedom of speech”. I believe they are doing more harm than good. I could understand the city doing nothing when the first sign was put up. However, the fact remains he did not complete the demolition in my opinion, and therefore should take action this time if permitted by the law of course. The illegals and their apologists clearly have a crafty legal team advising them. The sign might not be not obstruct one’s vision, but is certainly an eye sore.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t the house in question condemned by the city after it burned? I would like to see a time line regarding critical events as they relate to this property.
Zoning is correct. In PW County the size of signs are regulated. And unless someone reports and ask signs to be checked out,it won’t get done.
I don’t know what Manassas, City or Park has for signing regulations,but it needs to be checked.
In case one hasn’t notice there are illegals who came here to make a better life. Tho they were led down a path, they are trying. But there are those that came for a cause and they have met up with so called Americans here that protest and fight.They will try and overwhelm our society.
You can bet when they get done the poor,underprivilage,the African Americans and all others will be overtaken by their civil disobediance.
Wake up citizens.
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) on 4 Nov 2007 at 11:37 am:
Sounds like you have more than a “bunk” house going on in your neighborhood. A “cat house” sounds more appropriate if they are coming and going (no pun intended) at those hours. As you may be aware, they have already busted two Latino “cat houses” in the Manassas are and more in Dale City/Woodbridge.
anonymoustoo
It’s hard to talk to your neighbor when they don’t speak or understand the English language. The zoning issues that are called our serious health and public safety issues often. I live in a very hard hit neighborhood. Take a look at those pictures that I’ve posted. Now should I not call on house that has the following..
1)Chickens living in the backyard?
2)Grass that’s 4 feet high?
3)Trash heaps maintained in yards behind sheds so property code can’t see them?
4)Inground pools with standing water and filled with debris?
5)Aboveground pools with standing water?
6)A house clearly being renovated and has no building permits?
Note with kitchen sink and toilets in the front yard.
7)Pick up trucks with the beds filled with trash?
8)Cars on the street with no tags. Three in 6 weeks were reported within a two block are, and they were all STOLEN!
9)Appliances in the back yards?
10) Junk, wrecked cars with no tags on them?
These are the types of things that should be called to Zoning, and all should do this. I have contacted the Zoning/Building Code Depts, my Supervisor(often times all of them, PWCPD.
I am far from a crackpot! I along with several of my neighbors have made a POSITIVE impact on our community over the last seven months. I call everyday, because I see at least one new violation per day, and report it promtly.
I do not believe that the ordinance regulating non-commercial speech would stand Constitutional scrutiny as no significant public interest (health, safety, welfare) is threaten if the parameters cited in the ordinance are exceeded.
I would suggest that if the content of the sign were different the opinions of those discussing the issue would change.
What if the sign said “PEACE”; would you feel the same way?
Since the sign is on a wall that was part of the original structure, does that mean that the FULL property tax on the original structure is still in effect (since the entire structure was not demolished?)
DennisD,
In a word, YES.
To Brighter Future:
“Zoning is correct. In PW County the size of signs are regulated. And unless someone reports and ask signs to be checked out,it won’t get done.
I don’t know what Manassas, City or Park has for signing regulations,but it needs to be checked.”
Actually, Zoning Guy is wrong, poltiical signs are “non-permitted” signs, the city and county have no right to regulate them unless they interfere with public safety.
To Dolph:
“Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t the house in question condemned by the city after it burned? I would like to see a time line regarding critical events as they relate to this property.”
I believe (though I’m not certain) that the house in question was condemned. But that was the house, and not the wall that was left. The City will have to come back and prove the wall is a danger.
The logic is this: The house was condemned and said owner applied for a permit for demolition of the structure (presumably intending to tear it down). At some point the immigration issue became so inflammatory that said owner felt compelled to use his right to free speech (by displaying a sign) to speak out on a political issue. The owner chose to leave the “safe” wall of the house standing in order to display the sign; which is his right as the property owner and owner of the structure in question. The wall which remains standing is safe, and not in danger of injuring the public. The sign intself is protected political speech and nothing about the size of the sign is a threat to public safety.
That will be the argument of the property owner, and if the City of Manassas attempts to stop the owner for displaying the sign they will find themselved in a federal court arguing their case at taxpayers expense. And will, almost cerainly, waste millions of taxpayer dollars defending a case they are sure to lose.
DennisD said on 4 Nov 2007 at 1:41 pm:
What if the sign said “PEACE”; would you feel the same way?
Yes, I would it’s an eye sore no matter what it says.
What’s December’s sign going to read Feliz Navidad?-lol
Do you think that Port-a-Potty is healthy? What if it get’s vandalized(tipped over and all the contents run out in the yard) like the sign did?
“Since the sign is on a wall that was part of the original structure, does that mean that the FULL property tax on the original structure is still in effect (since the entire structure was not demolished?)”
Nope, the old structure is gone, the existing wall of the the structure has now become a new structure (with no physical modification and hence no need for a permit): the foundation/support for a political sign (banner) that is protected by free speech.
Is a wall not part of the house that was condemned?
I personally don’t care what the sign says. I care about the slum-look that exists in a downtown area where residents and business owners have spent millions of dollars on revitalization.
Porta-potties and partially fallen down houses just don’t fit in with the city decor that most of us want to see when we go to Old Town Manassas. The ghetto appearance of this property will eventually hurt businesses in the area.
“Since the sign is on a wall that was part of the original structure, does that mean that the FULL property tax on the original structure is still in effect (since the entire structure was not demolished?)”
If the owner is still paying full tax, he should appeal for a reduction based on the actual description of the property.
Lafayette, the reason I asked about approaching new neighbors in the beginning is that a little dialogue can make resolving later problems easier. Even if there is a language barrier, neighbors can be invited to barbeques or given a few houseplants, etc. My best friend in grammar school was German and we learned to communicate using hand signs in the beginning.
The county or city is not capable of resolving all the problems in a neighborhood. The residents have to become involved. Your neighborhood watches need to involve as many people as possible in order to be effective. Otherwise you’re asking the government to become involved “in loco parentis”. Man and woman up, heed the new message on the sign, and make the area better. You’re not going to deport all the Hispanics. Get over it and bridge the divide that you created.
“Porta-potties and partially fallen down houses just don’t fit in with the city decor that most of us want to see when we go to Old Town Manassas. The ghetto appearance of this property will eventually hurt businesses in the area.”
While I’d agree that the sign isn’t as attractive as a commercial “flashy-trash” billboard, I don’t think it has done as much damage to Manassas’s reputation as the resolution and accompanying brouhaha has.
anonymoustoo,
Too bad the resolution has nothing to do with the City of Manassas. I wouldn’t like to see a ‘flashy-trash’ sign there either. It would not fit in.
To me, the issue is a partially torn down house in a revitalization, historic area. It needs to go. I don’t care if Mickey Mouse is on it.
Obviously PW County residents have no sense of civic pride. Why not simply enforce zoning laws? I mean, there are ordinances against dumping trash, overcrowding, not mowing one’s lawn, playing loud music, aren’t there? Why not enforce such ordinances?
anonymouse….again….your are totally illogical! Do you really think people in the “bunk houses” are going to be reasonable? There is a high probability there are illegals there!!!! Or maybe it is a “cat house” as someone mentioned. I will leave the dialogue for ICE agents and such! I will continue to report my findings regardless of what you or anyone else says. It is my community and I want to help take care of it. Don’t like it here…why don’t you move to a sanctuary city! You will fit right in! Maybe you can join up with Nancy Lyall and MWB! Oh…and these two bunk houses are not German, Russian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Scandinavian, Chinese, etc. I am sure you can guess what both of them are.
Calling the sign political doesnt automatically make it free from regulation. also the city can and does regulate the size of signs in old towne.
Furthermore anonymouse……If you know of anyone “aiding and abetting” (which is a FELONY) and you do not report it…you are part of the problem!You must be really proud of yourself!
Ducky,
This PWC native does have civic pride, and that’s why I call proper authorities to report violations so they can ENFORCE the laws! The longtime residents maintain their houses for the most part, and yes I report violation irregardless of race etc..
Some of the newer residents(invaders) do not maintain the property upto code, and then in turn get a visit from PCE(Property Code Enforcement). Of course even when there’s eight cars and residents inside they want answer the door, and a written violation notice is left.
corr
they WON’T answer the doore..
My neighborhood has people of all races. Everything is fine…..except for the two bunk houses. Imagine that?!??
Unknown cars/people coming at all times of the day. Different cars staying overnight, etc. etc. That is a problem in my book!
The Patriot,
Some just don’t get it, and never will I’m convinced. How about you? How many OSD’s in your neck of the woods(or frequently visited spots) these days?
Got E-Verify?
Got a sense of civic pride?
People like anonymouse sure do NOT! They are part of the problem and enable those that make our communities erode!
Patriot, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that what you describe is a “cat house”. A neighborhood doesn’t become crappy overnight and it takes the majority of residents to set a standard. That’s why it’s important to meet and welcome neighbors as they move in. They’ll feel as though they belong and have responsibilty in maintaining the setting.
You can call me “mouse” if it makes you feel better, but I’m not the one fearful of finding Hispanic men at Blooms. And ha, ha about my being illogical. If you’re familiar with the Myers-Briggs personality test, you might be surprised to find out that the tester found me to be one of the least “feeling” but most “logical” women that she had tested.
Dolph, the property with the sign isn’t much worse than the house that the city was involved with at the intersection of Quarry and Prescott. I think most people are interested in more restaurants, more unique shops, and parking than they are with that sign. The sign would have made little impact had this blog and a couple other sites not made such a to-do about it in the beginning. (And if you read last week’s MJM, Marc Aveni and the rest of the Council are about to give the city another black-eye and probably a big legal bill to match if cooler heads don’t prevail.)
I agree the property is a mess. But like other situations you have to use the right tools for the job and using a land-use ordinance to remove a non-commercial sign will not be supported by the man in the black robe. The Manassas Town Attorney will surely weigh in on the issue come Monday morning and define the Zoning Administrator’s boundaries.
The rest of the building (wall) should be razed but that process will probably take weeks not days if the property owner is not fully cooperative.
Judges have give broad leeway to political signage and I doubt if Manassas will opt for litigation that will surely fail. If there are no other considerations other than content of the sign or “ugly”-factor the property owner will prevail.
So resign yourself, that sign will be around for a while. (Pun intended)
anonymouse….uhhh…..our neighborhood was just fine until these two “bunk houses” cropped up just this past year! Uhh….welcome people that may be involved with harboring illegals and maybe involved in a “cat house”? I will leave that up to ICE.
Patriot,
Do you think the renters of the recently busted “growhouse” would have felt comfortable had the neighbors come over to welcome them with a big old apple pie and some discount coupons for the local eateries and drycleaners? Probably not….particularly if they, the neighbors, were persistant in their friendliness and routinely held large outdoor barbeques right next door within view of your plantlights.
Why shouldn’t ICE consider you a local whacko if they are continually called by you particularly for issues that the local police or zoning enforcement should handle? Let me guess, zoning told you that routine gestapo tactics weren’t their first means of proving that these ten men weren’t “related”. You can’t hang them by their toenails until one screams.
“And, Dennis, the Supreme Court has ruled that the Constitution (including the First Amendment) applies to everyone within our borders (including illegal immigrants).”
Exactly the point I was trying to make, the Mexican constituation is not reciprocal…. You better keep your mouth shut if you go there. What you forget to mention and I will suggest it, time to change the constitution and get rid of the 13th, 14, and change the 1st to mean ONLY American Citizens are allowed to speak out in protest against the United States…..
OR we could adopt the Mexican constitution…. If that would suit everyone…………………………………………
http://www.ilstu.edu/class/hist263/docs/1917const.html
Chapter III
Foreigners
Article 33. Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualifications set forth in Article 30. They are entitled to the guarantees granted by Chapter I, Title I, of the present Constitution; but the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.
Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.
OF course, illegals don’t want to become citizens, they lose all their rights in their country………………………………………..
Article 37.
Mexican nationality is lost:
By the voluntary acquisition of a foreign nationality;
By accepting or using titles of nobility which imply submission to a foreign state;
By residing, if a Mexican by naturalization, for five consecutive years in the country of origin;
By passing in any public instrument, when Mexican by naturalization, as a foreigner, or by obtaining and using a foreign passport;
Then we have the armed services…………….
Article 32. (14)Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces.
In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of pratique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic.
The least we should do for our “guests” is to make them feel at home, give them a taste of their very own laws.
It is the least we can do.
The thing that makes me angry about this whole situation is, if a “white, non-Hispanic” were doing this they would be in trouble. It isn’t politically correct to make Hispanic’s do anything that might hurt their feelings.
We all agree with freedom of speech, but you still can not break the law to do it!
The billboard is also a safety hazard. People are stopping in the middle of the road to look at this, I have seen a few “almost” accidents.
Call the Mayor and City Council.
If they are not made to take the billboard down, I say that everyone in the city should erect their own political speech billboard. Let’s see what happens then!
anonymoustoo,
Prescott and Quarry are not the immediate downtown area where the restaurants and boutiques are.
I think that the point needs to be made here that Manassas City did not ’start’ the problem. They basically were sitting there, surrounded by Prince William County, minding their own business. The original sign was an ‘in your face’ effort.
The hispanic community would have been better served had individuals, probably who do not live in the city, not decided to get into a proverbial pissing contest with the City of Manassas. There is the old idea of coming into an area and trying to fit in rather than rattling cages.
Had such a sign been erected in the county, it would be more understandable. The current sign is the product of misguided efforts. I am not sure what outcome those responsible for the sign even want.
The degree of vitriol displayed by Patriot is frightening. To think that if I happen to have more than my alloted one car per driver in my driveway or on the curb, Patriot will feel compelled to fulfill a civic duty to turn me in is oh so comforting. The bigger the stink you make about the sign, the more this community loses any credibility. A safety hazard??? Get real. To see the sign, the viewer has to make a special trip to the corner. It’s not exactly on a main thoroughfare. I haven’t seen any trains leaving the track when they pass by. And I didn’t notice any decrease in the downtown activities lately. Ignore it and it will go away. You just want to win, don’t you? This isn’t about anything more than winning. Then your politicians will use it as a platform during the next election. Nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change until someone delivers a create and acceptable plan. Keeping illegal immigrants out of substance abuse programs and calling city hall to take down the sign might make you feel all warm and fuzzy but it has nothing to do with solving the problem which has been embellished by the Republicans in this town and county in order to win an election. Maybe if you brought in some Democrats, you might see a change. It really couldn’t be worse.
Let’s not forget this WALL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AE7lDMEiQc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ_1VPK_PeE
Patryot,
If you look at any of my posts on this blog, you will see that I am probably one of the least vitriolic people here. You will be hard pressed to see where I have attacked any Hispanics. However, I am about ready to rip my white gloves off over a few comments that have been made here, just because of the lack of logic.
You do realize that Prince William County, not City of Manassas, enacted THE resolution? You do realize that these are 2 seperate jurisdictions, each with their own governments? You do realize that the sign in question is on an abandoned, condemned building in the middle of the City of Manassas across the street from the main revitalization area?
No one has answered my question…what do these misguided people want to happen because they posted THEIR sign? Tell me please.
I feel that the leadership of this group has really let the Hispanic community down, has given them false hope, and has encouraged them to do things that alienate them from the rest of the community. This sign is just an example of the poor leadership being display.
The sign looks trashy. Anything would look trashy erected on the remaining wall of a burned down building. My standards aren’t all that high, as some of my friends here have pointed out. If I think it looks bad, it is truly ghetto.
The sign is symbolic of what has become an ugly situation. Manassas is not innocent of its own attempts to enact a useless ordinance. Remember the anonymous reports that led to middle-of-the-night police actions and which resulted in zero arrests and a million dollars is legal fees that the City of Manassas is due to pay in defense of its ridiculous actions. Where’s the sanity?
patryot…..if you are “aiding and abetting” you better be afraid (and anyone else too)! I would not hesitate for one second to report you (or anyone else if I had reason to)! When safety in my community is an issue you better believe I take it seriously and I will do everything possible to report suspicious activities. I subscribe to the neighborhood watch concept!
Regarding what Dennis said on 4 Nov 2007 at 3:39 pm
Dennis, I’ve lived around the world (in uniform). Your point about the Mexican Constitution is taken; however, the same can be said for most of the rest of the world. And, I say again, we don’t live in Mexico.
It’s ironic that our ancestors did the same thing to the Indians (slowly moved in, brought our own customs, language and culture with them, moved or killed the natives in the way, and took over) that we accuse the illegal immigrants of doing (only they aren’t as brutal as our ancestors). Remember studying Manafest Destany in high school?
The reason the Federal Government is “gridlocked” on this issue is because they have figured out that our economy requires “guest workers” for agriculture, manufacturing, canning, and many other industries critical to our existance. The world has changed. Free markets are the future. People will go where the jobs are. U.S. Industries are actually a bigger threat for outsourcing to India, China, etc. (taking the jobs where the people are); however, we do nothing about that while focusing on people who come here instead. This issue demonstrates that borders mean nothing. PWC’s resolution, as pitiful as it is for failing to do anything substantive, only demonstrates a lack of understanding or what is going on in the world outside our County borders.
I believe that many immigrants (legal and illegal) of all falvors perhaps have both a better grasp and appreciation for our Constitution and the freedoms it provides than we do. They are willing to fight… well… folks like you to stay here. You wonder why people stay where they aren’t wanted. It’s because they “get” what this country is about.
I’m starting to think perhaps citizens should be re-tested every few years to make sure they remember what we are about. (I would wave that requirement for any one honorable discharged from the military service as that’s the “graduate course”.) If they fail, they aren’t deported; they are just demoted to legal resident status until they pass the test. I know this won’t happen… but I can dream.
To quote Churchill, “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”
Get a life, Patriot. The only thing that makes me feel unsafe are busy-bodies like you who want to interfere with my freedom. Do you ride around town looking for trouble? Too many cars in the driveway? To many hispanics in the Wal-Mart? You sound like a nut. How is it that one is “aiding and abetting”? Any ideas? I could use a few pointers! Maybe the library is checking books out to illegals. There you go, Patriot. Let’s arrest the librarians for “aiding and abetting”.
Dolph,
I’m perfectly aware that the City of Manassas and PW County are separate entities. The city is not without blame in fanning the flames of hysteria though. They passed and then quickly rescinded their definition of “family” and are now paying for their haste. The county had the advantage of seeing how the city erred yet forged ahead to pass a resolution that promised a grand fireworks display but ended up being, in effect, just a big fizzle….although the hatred, fear, anger is just beginning to simmer.
I believe, although I might be mistaken, that the Prescott house is an historic structure in the historic district. It isn’t visible from the shops and restaurants, that’s for sure.
I think the sign was put at its location because it , the location, has good visibility given the farmers’ market, VRE, etc. And the property owner was willing to have it there. (Ha ha. There may be other less obvious reasons why the property owner is doing this.) A county location near any major commuter parking lot may have generated as much exposure but maybe no property owner would oblige.
patryot….if you are “aiding and abetting”…all I can say is watch out! You can look it up for yourself what it means.
Patriot: Your threats are …….. can you actually be serious? Watch out? You’re kidding, right? Let’s hope so. I think you’ve flipped your wig! In the meantime, you can find me huddled in my basement in the dark, frightened and shaking.
Patriot, you’d make a good Commie (block captain willing to rat out your neighbors). I’ll bet the FBI has as big a file on right-wing crackpots as left-wing crackpots. Almost no one likes or trusts a stoolie though.
And for your info, my family has no one here illegally, but I have two nephews (born here as well as their father) with an Hispanic surname. I hope they’re spared the bigotry of small minds who see the boogyman in everything Hispanic. (Their grandfather was fron Spain and their grandmother from Germany.)
patryot……yes…you better watch out that you do not get thrown in jail for “aiding and abetting” if that is what you are doing! It is a FELONY.
hey mouse…I thought you read English….I have hispanics in my family (legal ones!). Oh…I see….you conveniently forgot that…right?
anonymoustoo,
well stated
Patriot, I read English but don’t read everything you say…only in the thread in which I’m participating.
Oh, a FELONY. How frightening! Patriot: Have you completely lost it? Is there something we can do to get you help? I asked a question, Patriot: What do you consider to be aiding and abetting illegal immigrants? I want to know so that I can get started. Patriot: You probably have a flag flying on your front porch, you drive a car that gets less than 20 miles per gallon, you are still watering your lawn or washing your car, and you don’t recycle. An American above the rest, no doubt!
I think the sign needs to stay just to show how ignorant and off base the folks are who support criminals. Every time one of the supporters or a criminal say illegals just want to come here work hard, raise a family and live their lives in quiet, we can use the example of the sign that they are full of it.
Just like the “lady” who went off on the BOS at the public hearing… in a fit where she was not able to control her brain or mouth, she let out the true feelings of many on the side that supports criminals. This sign is another example of that. And those that support criminals wonder why the vast majority of folks are pissed.
“From the equality of rights springs identity of our highest interests; you cannot subvert your neighbor’s rights without striking a dangerous blow at your own.”
- Carl (Karl) Schurz
http://www.giga-usa.com/quotes/authors/carl_schurz_a001.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schurz
COM, what’s wrong with the sign’s message?
I’m