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	<title>Comments on: Fixing HB3202: A Tax Hike Opportunity?</title>
	<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/</link>
	<description>Blog-Fu for Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 10:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3</generator>

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		<title>By: Isophorone</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39617</link>
		<dc:creator>Isophorone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 02:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39617</guid>
		<description>Krusty,

Thanks for proving my point.  Only backwards people would use something so simpleminded at "freezing at zero and boiling at 100."  Stuff like that stifles innovation.  Do you realy want to be like those backward 95%?  Well, you can take that bike (or is it Peugeot?) to Canada, EH?  Maybe you are one of those "Metric-anos Sin Fronteras" types.  I exposed these kinds of people here:

http://isophorone.blogspot.com/2007/08/sarkozy-to-dump-metric-system.html

I am optimistic that the rest of the world will put the month ahead of the day, also.  For all I know you are driving on the wrong side of the street, also!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Krusty,</p>
<p>Thanks for proving my point.  Only backwards people would use something so simpleminded at &#8220;freezing at zero and boiling at 100.&#8221;  Stuff like that stifles innovation.  Do you realy want to be like those backward 95%?  Well, you can take that bike (or is it Peugeot?) to Canada, EH?  Maybe you are one of those &#8220;Metric-anos Sin Fronteras&#8221; types.  I exposed these kinds of people here:</p>
<p><a href="http://isophorone.blogspot.com/2007/08/sarkozy-to-dump-metric-system.html" rel="nofollow">http://isophorone.blogspot.com/2007/08/sarkozy-to-dump-metric-system.html</a></p>
<p>I am optimistic that the rest of the world will put the month ahead of the day, also.  For all I know you are driving on the wrong side of the street, also!</p>
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		<title>By: Krusty</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39527</link>
		<dc:creator>Krusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39527</guid>
		<description>Yes, I find Canada very welcoming.  So is the U.S. once you get out of the airports.  Me thinks you want me go north :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I find Canada very welcoming.  So is the U.S. once you get out of the airports.  Me thinks you want me go north <img src='http://www.bvbl.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Krusty</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39525</link>
		<dc:creator>Krusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39525</guid>
		<description>BullEl - Give me a better reason!   Shouldn't the capital of the U.S. be a world city in the best meaning of the word?  Maybe they'll finally have metered cabs even!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BullEl - Give me a better reason!   Shouldn&#8217;t the capital of the U.S. be a world city in the best meaning of the word?  Maybe they&#8217;ll finally have metered cabs even!</p>
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		<title>By: BullElephant</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39490</link>
		<dc:creator>BullElephant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39490</guid>
		<description>Krusty,

I'm sure you would find Canada a very welcoming part of the "international society."  If you hurry, you can ride your bike there before the weather turns.

In the meantime, I think there are far better arguments to be made regarding mass transit than an appeal for us to be more like those sensible and elegant socialists in Europe.  Surely you can think of better reasons for having rail from Dulles to downtown DC than simply that DC needs to be a "WORLD CITY."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Krusty,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you would find Canada a very welcoming part of the &#8220;international society.&#8221;  If you hurry, you can ride your bike there before the weather turns.</p>
<p>In the meantime, I think there are far better arguments to be made regarding mass transit than an appeal for us to be more like those sensible and elegant socialists in Europe.  Surely you can think of better reasons for having rail from Dulles to downtown DC than simply that DC needs to be a &#8220;WORLD CITY.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Krusty</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39336</link>
		<dc:creator>Krusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39336</guid>
		<description>Surely you jest.  Yes, I'm sure you're joking.  "The metric system has been adopted for everyday life by most nations.  As of 2006 , 95 (ninetyfive) % of the world's population live in metricated countries".   So here we are a majority of 5%!

While on the subject of being stupidly stubborn, the US is the only country I know that puts Month ahead of Day and Year when writing dates.  This has caused problems to a couple of friends who got their visa dates screwed up.  When it comes to travel, it's a puzzlement to me why the 24 hr system isn't used for airline tickets.  You'd never show up at 7:30 am if the flight was scheduled for 19:30!   Another pet peeve: Fahrenheit vs Celcius!  Freezing at zero, boiling at 100!  What could be easier?   Oh well, one day we'll join the international society in these respects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely you jest.  Yes, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re joking.  &#8220;The metric system has been adopted for everyday life by most nations.  As of 2006 , 95 (ninetyfive) % of the world&#8217;s population live in metricated countries&#8221;.   So here we are a majority of 5%!</p>
<p>While on the subject of being stupidly stubborn, the US is the only country I know that puts Month ahead of Day and Year when writing dates.  This has caused problems to a couple of friends who got their visa dates screwed up.  When it comes to travel, it&#8217;s a puzzlement to me why the 24 hr system isn&#8217;t used for airline tickets.  You&#8217;d never show up at 7:30 am if the flight was scheduled for 19:30!   Another pet peeve: Fahrenheit vs Celcius!  Freezing at zero, boiling at 100!  What could be easier?   Oh well, one day we&#8217;ll join the international society in these respects.</p>
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		<title>By: Isophorone</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39329</link>
		<dc:creator>Isophorone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39329</guid>
		<description>Krusty,

Europeans pay much higher taxes than we do and tend to live in more densely crowded cities.  The average poor person in the U.S. has more living space (and is more likely to own a car) than a middle class European.

So do you live in a big city and take only public transit?  I am in Fairfax, and do walk to a bus to take the Metro most days.  (I joke that not driving is like having a promotion.)

Let's face it, During WWII DC had a population of about 800,000.  Now it is just under 600,000 (and for awhile it was closer to 500,000).  Families with kids, and especially those concerned about (overpriced and underperforming) schools, are just not going to move into the place.  The same goes for a lot of big cities.  I submit to you that a school voucher system would actually help stop suburban sprawl!

Anyway, these Danes, Swedes, Germans, British, and Singaporeans are really not so advanced.  All of these countries, in fact, are so backwards that they STILL USE THE METRIC SYSTEM.  Do you really want to be like them?  The invention of this stuff is what got Louis XVI's head cut off.  Why do you think France's new president Sarkozy keeps visiting the U.S.?  He wants to get rid of it too!  I wote extensively on my blog about this very subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Krusty,</p>
<p>Europeans pay much higher taxes than we do and tend to live in more densely crowded cities.  The average poor person in the U.S. has more living space (and is more likely to own a car) than a middle class European.</p>
<p>So do you live in a big city and take only public transit?  I am in Fairfax, and do walk to a bus to take the Metro most days.  (I joke that not driving is like having a promotion.)</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it, During WWII DC had a population of about 800,000.  Now it is just under 600,000 (and for awhile it was closer to 500,000).  Families with kids, and especially those concerned about (overpriced and underperforming) schools, are just not going to move into the place.  The same goes for a lot of big cities.  I submit to you that a school voucher system would actually help stop suburban sprawl!</p>
<p>Anyway, these Danes, Swedes, Germans, British, and Singaporeans are really not so advanced.  All of these countries, in fact, are so backwards that they STILL USE THE METRIC SYSTEM.  Do you really want to be like them?  The invention of this stuff is what got Louis XVI&#8217;s head cut off.  Why do you think France&#8217;s new president Sarkozy keeps visiting the U.S.?  He wants to get rid of it too!  I wote extensively on my blog about this very subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Krusty</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39322</link>
		<dc:creator>Krusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 02:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39322</guid>
		<description>Isophorone - You're right.  However, we have this love affair with automobiles and the dislike of walking a short distance to get to a subway station or a bus stop.  Along with a rail system, connectors are needed, and that's where the rub sets in.  I think Europeans were brought up without cars and got used to a certain amount of effort to use public transit.  The other difference is that bicycles are used as transportation rather than just sport and exercise, AND there's no problem parking your bike at a subway station.  Oh well, I don't think anything will change, at least not for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isophorone - You&#8217;re right.  However, we have this love affair with automobiles and the dislike of walking a short distance to get to a subway station or a bus stop.  Along with a rail system, connectors are needed, and that&#8217;s where the rub sets in.  I think Europeans were brought up without cars and got used to a certain amount of effort to use public transit.  The other difference is that bicycles are used as transportation rather than just sport and exercise, AND there&#8217;s no problem parking your bike at a subway station.  Oh well, I don&#8217;t think anything will change, at least not for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: One Voice</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39315</link>
		<dc:creator>One Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39315</guid>
		<description>"Democrats think that the magic bullet for our transportation needs is the construction of mass transit systems that will unendingly require annual operating subsidies".

Local Republicans think that the magic bullet for our transportation needs is **to use local tax dollars and build our own roads*** that will unendingly require annual operating subsidies.

Is there a difference in the flawed thinking on both sides?  Is it possible for to look at things objectively, factually and without editorial nonsense?  When I see some sensible discussion without the uncessary fingerpointing it will be worth consideration.

That said, transportation should not be local government responsibility due to the impact on debt capacity that freezes all other expansion - police stations, fire stations the primary missions of local government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Democrats think that the magic bullet for our transportation needs is the construction of mass transit systems that will unendingly require annual operating subsidies&#8221;.</p>
<p>Local Republicans think that the magic bullet for our transportation needs is **to use local tax dollars and build our own roads*** that will unendingly require annual operating subsidies.</p>
<p>Is there a difference in the flawed thinking on both sides?  Is it possible for to look at things objectively, factually and without editorial nonsense?  When I see some sensible discussion without the uncessary fingerpointing it will be worth consideration.</p>
<p>That said, transportation should not be local government responsibility due to the impact on debt capacity that freezes all other expansion - police stations, fire stations the primary missions of local government.</p>
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		<title>By: Isophorone</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39306</link>
		<dc:creator>Isophorone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39306</guid>
		<description>The thing is, Krusty, you can make mass transit cheaper without needing heavy rail.  Therein lies the problem.

I think the opposition to rail-to-Dulles can make their case better by saying that one mile of rail  = X miles of road (as in lanes on I-66).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, Krusty, you can make mass transit cheaper without needing heavy rail.  Therein lies the problem.</p>
<p>I think the opposition to rail-to-Dulles can make their case better by saying that one mile of rail  = X miles of road (as in lanes on I-66).</p>
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		<title>By: Krusty</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39256</link>
		<dc:creator>Krusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39256</guid>
		<description>Greg L - No mass transit system works without subsidies.  It's shameful that the capital area of the richest country in the world didn't realize this years and years back.  You land at airports in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Frankfurt, Singapore, Heathrow in London, etc. etc.  and you can board a train into the center of the city without leaving the airport.  Landing at Dulles, you're  facing turmoil trying to find a taxi or a "limousine".  If Washington wants to join the WORLD CITIES it needs rapid transit to its airports.  Not always is the American way the best way.  It costs money, sure, but the better public transit gets, the more people will use it.  Building more roads; well, we've seen where that leads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg L - No mass transit system works without subsidies.  It&#8217;s shameful that the capital area of the richest country in the world didn&#8217;t realize this years and years back.  You land at airports in Copenhagen, Stockholm, Frankfurt, Singapore, Heathrow in London, etc. etc.  and you can board a train into the center of the city without leaving the airport.  Landing at Dulles, you&#8217;re  facing turmoil trying to find a taxi or a &#8220;limousine&#8221;.  If Washington wants to join the WORLD CITIES it needs rapid transit to its airports.  Not always is the American way the best way.  It costs money, sure, but the better public transit gets, the more people will use it.  Building more roads; well, we&#8217;ve seen where that leads.</p>
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		<title>By: mnd</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39254</link>
		<dc:creator>mnd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39254</guid>
		<description>New developments that increase traffic beyond carrying capacity of existing roads are the problem.

Putting 1000s of new homes in Prince William County with Rt. 28 as the only path north to 66 has had HUGE impact on traffic since I moved to MP in 2000.

It should not take me an hour in the morning to drive 6 miles to Centreville.  I'm just thankful I have the freedom to work from home now.  No idea how other folks tolerate it.

Insisting that local government rein in development and shift the costs of increasing road capacity to these developments is the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New developments that increase traffic beyond carrying capacity of existing roads are the problem.</p>
<p>Putting 1000s of new homes in Prince William County with Rt. 28 as the only path north to 66 has had HUGE impact on traffic since I moved to MP in 2000.</p>
<p>It should not take me an hour in the morning to drive 6 miles to Centreville.  I&#8217;m just thankful I have the freedom to work from home now.  No idea how other folks tolerate it.</p>
<p>Insisting that local government rein in development and shift the costs of increasing road capacity to these developments is the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Dog</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39251</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Dog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39251</guid>
		<description>Good insight, Matt.  Would add that the chances of 
 changing the funding formula to give NOVA a fair share
 are nil until redistricting following the 2010 census. 
 The G.A. will do do this over the dead bodies of rural
 legislators. Only when we get the numbers will we get 
 a funding change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good insight, Matt.  Would add that the chances of<br />
 changing the funding formula to give NOVA a fair share<br />
 are nil until redistricting following the 2010 census.<br />
 The G.A. will do do this over the dead bodies of rural<br />
 legislators. Only when we get the numbers will we get<br />
 a funding change.</p>
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		<title>By: James Young</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39241</link>
		<dc:creator>James Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39241</guid>
		<description>To answer your question, of course it is, Greg.  For many of these people, EVERY bill is "a tax hike opportunity"!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To answer your question, of course it is, Greg.  For many of these people, EVERY bill is &#8220;a tax hike opportunity&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: Bwana</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39237</link>
		<dc:creator>Bwana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39237</guid>
		<description>AMEN!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMEN!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39235</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/11/13/fixing-hb3202-a-tax-hike-opportunity/#comment-39235</guid>
		<description>I don't think many, if any, readers here agree that either the Dulles extension or unelected taxing authorities are good ideas. I also don't think many folks disagree with the premise that we have significant funding shortfalls in transportation that seriously jeopardize our economic future and personal sanity.

So we are left with a few choices: 1) cut significant amounts from other budget line items to fund transpo (no one in either party has the balls to do this); 2) abandon Dulles rail and funnel that money into the general transpo budget (has about a .1% chance of happening); 3) make the pie bigger thru tax increases (impossible with the current House); 4) ignore the problem (most downstaters do this); 5) change the funding formula to favor NOVA (will help but in the end won't transfer anything significant upstate); or 6) some combination of the above.

Until we zero out the budget, start from scratch with a new baseline consistent with identified priorities, and start to think more strategically instead of focusing on gotcha politics or the next election, nothing positive for transp will ever get done.

The problem is we don't really know how big the pie is because we are working off a budget that hasn't been rebaselined since the early '70s. We need to work together on this instead of throwing bombs at the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think many, if any, readers here agree that either the Dulles extension or unelected taxing authorities are good ideas. I also don&#8217;t think many folks disagree with the premise that we have significant funding shortfalls in transportation that seriously jeopardize our economic future and personal sanity.</p>
<p>So we are left with a few choices: 1) cut significant amounts from other budget line items to fund transpo (no one in either party has the balls to do this); 2) abandon Dulles rail and funnel that money into the general transpo budget (has about a .1% chance of happening); 3) make the pie bigger thru tax increases (impossible with the current House); 4) ignore the problem (most downstaters do this); 5) change the funding formula to favor NOVA (will help but in the end won&#8217;t transfer anything significant upstate); or 6) some combination of the above.</p>
<p>Until we zero out the budget, start from scratch with a new baseline consistent with identified priorities, and start to think more strategically instead of focusing on gotcha politics or the next election, nothing positive for transp will ever get done.</p>
<p>The problem is we don&#8217;t really know how big the pie is because we are working off a budget that hasn&#8217;t been rebaselined since the early &#8217;70s. We need to work together on this instead of throwing bombs at the other side.</p>
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