Comments on: Bob Marshall Proposes Overcrowding Initiative http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/ Blog-Fu for Prince William, Manassas and Manassas Park politics. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:47:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Lindy Bowie http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43248 Lindy Bowie Sat, 08 Dec 2007 16:54:37 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43248 For City of Manassas residents who don't know, "probable cause" is at the discretion of the investigator, the investigator SHALL consult with the Building Official and MAY consult with the City Attorney for guidance. And, under existing policies, the City field investigates 88% of all the addresses complained about. You may wonder why not 100%? In order to justify a field inspection, a complaint has to satisfy all tests. This is the four part test TO DETERMINE if the CITY will INITIATE a field inspecton RATHER THAN sending the "Laws and Codes" letter to the compliant address. Those four tests are: 1. Has the City previously established the occupancy limit and does the new complaint indicate that the occupancy is now in excess of the previously established limit? 2. Did the complainant observe the violations first hand? 3. Does the complainant provide credible evidence of a violation? 4. Does the complainant live in the proximate area of the complaint address? New criteria for Residential Overcrowding is now being discussed by the city land-use committee. City residents may want to take a good look at and actively involve yourselves in attending land-use committee meetings and making contact with your elected officials with your concerns and comments. City Manager announced at the Thursday night land-use committee meeting that this four part test will be put on the city website to bring infomation and educate the public about the city's overcrowding policies. For City of Manassas residents who don’t know, “probable cause” is at the discretion of the investigator, the investigator SHALL consult with the Building Official and MAY consult with the City Attorney for guidance. And, under existing policies, the City field investigates 88% of all the addresses complained about. You may wonder why not 100%? In order to justify a field inspection, a complaint has to satisfy all tests. This is the four part test TO DETERMINE if the CITY will INITIATE a field inspecton RATHER THAN sending the “Laws and Codes” letter to the compliant address. Those four tests are:

1. Has the City previously established the occupancy limit and does
the new complaint indicate that the occupancy is now in excess
of the previously established limit?

2. Did the complainant observe the violations first hand?

3. Does the complainant provide credible evidence of a violation?

4. Does the complainant live in the proximate area of the
complaint address?

New criteria for Residential Overcrowding is now being discussed by the city land-use committee. City residents may want to take a good look at and actively involve yourselves in attending land-use committee meetings and making contact with your elected officials with your concerns and comments.

City Manager announced at the Thursday night land-use committee meeting that this four part test will be put on the city website to bring infomation and educate the public about the city’s overcrowding policies.

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43097 Lafayette Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:10:28 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43097 One Voice, I'm in total agreement once again. I'm glad you mention the sidewalks being blocked. We do call on the "habitual offenders". It really concerns me within less than a 2miles radius we have four walking schools. I'm not lawyer either I hope the banks don't slip up and land themselves in a lawsuit. I saw where someone had said the county doesn't want neighbors mowing the overgrown lawns of vacant houses. I wonder if that's their take on snow/ice covered sidewalks. This needs to be addressed before the deep winter sets in. Reminders need to be put on Channels 23 and 18, and on ALL county websites. This is about public safety, and especially our children. One Voice,
I’m in total agreement once again. I’m glad you mention the sidewalks being blocked. We do call on the “habitual offenders”.
It really concerns me within less than a 2miles radius we have four walking schools. I’m not lawyer either I hope the banks don’t slip up and land themselves in a lawsuit. I saw where someone had said the county doesn’t want neighbors mowing the overgrown lawns of vacant houses. I wonder if that’s their take on snow/ice covered sidewalks. This needs to be addressed before the deep winter sets in. Reminders need to be put on Channels 23 and 18, and on ALL county websites. This is about public safety, and especially our children.

]]> By: One Voice http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43095 One Voice Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:55:29 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43095 I heard that PWC had two of the national top ten foreclosure zip codes in the NATION!!!! PWC also has the lions share of the Washington Council Of Government area sub-prime loans. Who did that??? I've learned that some towns/cities will ticket cars that park at the end of their driveways so that they block the sidewalks. That annoys the snot out of me when I walk. If I run into that I walk up through their front yard as close to the windows as a can :) I think Prince William is slowly becoming a pedestrian community so maybe that will evolve as we become more urban and more people walk. I think the same call to the bank should bring the sidewalks to their attention. Not a lawyer, but a slip and fall could be additionally burdensome to a bank with a forclosed home or interferring with children walking to school.. I heard that PWC had two of the national top ten foreclosure zip codes in the NATION!!!! PWC also has the lions share of the Washington Council Of Government area sub-prime loans. Who did that???

I’ve learned that some towns/cities will ticket cars that park at the end of their driveways so that they block the sidewalks. That annoys the snot out of me when I walk. If I run into that I walk up through their front yard as close to the windows as a can :) I think Prince William is slowly becoming a pedestrian community so maybe that will evolve as we become more urban and more people walk. I think the same call to the bank should bring the sidewalks to their attention. Not a lawyer, but a slip and fall could be additionally burdensome to a bank with a forclosed home or interferring with children walking to school..

]]> By: redawn http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43094 redawn Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:52:26 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43094 One Voice, From another thread, we were on....I want you to take a look at this site. I think there is a lot here that you would be interested in. SHOW ME THE MONEY :) Merry Christmas http://goodbyefaisal.com/stewart One Voice,
From another thread, we were on….I want you to take a look at this site. I think there is a lot here that you would be interested in.

SHOW ME THE MONEY :) Merry Christmas

http://goodbyefaisal.com/stewart

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43092 Lafayette Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:40:53 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43092 One Voice, I'm already with one committee at this time. I don't think I could handle another one. However, I always look for new ways to learn. You have given me something else to think about. :) The fines should be stiffer. I've seen some of the liens filed for cutting the grass, and it's not cheap either.I The banks are getting better around here about maintaining their new "assets". I still say things are much improved since the spring. We won't let the winter stop the enforcement either. I am very curious with all these vacant houses thats a lot of sidewalk not getting cleared for the walking students countywide, and they are the younger students. One Voice,
I’m already with one committee at this time. I don’t think I could handle another one. However, I always look for new ways to learn. You have given me something else to think about. :)
The fines should be stiffer. I’ve seen some of the liens filed for cutting the grass, and it’s not cheap either.I The banks are getting better around here about maintaining their new “assets”.
I still say things are much improved since the spring. We won’t let the winter stop the enforcement either.
I am very curious with all these vacant houses thats a lot of sidewalk not getting cleared for the walking students countywide, and they are the younger students.

]]> By: One Voice http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43090 One Voice Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:30:05 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43090 Lafayette I will look up the fines - they are usually in the ordinance and I think the County Code is available on the County website. Usually there is an accelerated fine for non-response and so forth. I do know that if work is done on an area and the place is in forclosure, the county can and does go to the bank for reimbursement. I've seen that. Regarding training - you are likely correct that these folks need more and more on ordinances, handling volitile situations and managing community expectations. In fact, it should probably be an inservice program - given on a regular basis 3-4 times a year. Fines and such would support the program. I wonder if issuing the warrant will occur after x number of violations, even with fines, I would imagine it does not begin to cover the cost of the cops or the repeated trips by zoning. A warrent is quicker and to the point. Lafayette, you are beginning to sound like a bean counter. They are beginning to ramp up the budget committees for the supervisors.......go for it! Lafayette

I will look up the fines - they are usually in the ordinance and I think the County Code is available on the County website. Usually there is an accelerated fine for non-response and so forth. I do know that if work is done on an area and the place is in forclosure, the county can and does go to the bank for reimbursement. I’ve seen that.

Regarding training - you are likely correct that these folks need more and more on ordinances, handling volitile situations and managing community expectations. In fact, it should probably be an inservice program - given on a regular basis 3-4 times a year. Fines and such would support the program. I wonder if issuing the warrant will occur after x number of violations, even with fines, I would imagine it does not begin to cover the cost of the cops or the repeated trips by zoning. A warrent is quicker and to the point.

Lafayette, you are beginning to sound like a bean counter. They are beginning to ramp up the budget committees for the supervisors…….go for it!

]]> By: Lafayette http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43078 Lafayette Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:33:36 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43078 One Voice said on 6 Dec 2007 at 4:21 pm: Zoning most definately needs protection. There are two sets of woods that I know of that Zoning's been visiting for a month or so now, and they are escorted by the PWPD. I think Zoning could use a complete retraining from start to finish. I also think when inspectors go back for follow up visit and the violation has not been taken care of their should be a fine for that. What a great way to generate a little $$$? :) One Voice said on 6 Dec 2007 at 4:21 pm:
Zoning most definately needs protection. There are two sets of woods that I know of that Zoning’s been visiting for a month or so now, and they are escorted by the PWPD. I think Zoning could use a complete retraining from start to finish. I also think when inspectors go back for follow up visit and the violation has not been taken care of their should be a fine for that.
What a great way to generate a little $$$? :)

]]> By: me-n-u http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43072 me-n-u Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:19:58 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43072 Hazelton has appealed the ruling. It's not over. Hazelton has appealed the ruling. It’s not over.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43062 Anonymous Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:49:37 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43062 Let it happen one time and HUD and the Justice Department will be knocking on the doors at McCoart. Just ask Manasas City when they tried to do something. Until we get a president that will tell the Justice Department to leave the issue alone and Congressman and Senators that will write legistlation that gives local goverments the necessary authority....nothing will be done. Just ask Hazelton. They tried...Wake up Frank Wolf and Jim Webb. Let it happen one time and HUD and the Justice Department will be knocking on the doors at McCoart. Just ask Manasas City when they tried to do something. Until we get a president that will tell the Justice Department to leave the issue alone and Congressman and Senators that will write legistlation that gives local goverments the necessary authority….nothing will be done. Just ask Hazelton. They tried…Wake up Frank Wolf and Jim Webb.

]]> By: anonymoustoo http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43057 anonymoustoo Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:59:55 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43057 Medic, I'm thinking of how the building may have been modified without permits - a warren of bedrooms with only a door (often deadbolted) for access. In other words, not what you'd expect when you enter a single family home - few smoke detectors and occupants who often don't know each other or how many people should be in the house. I agree that you'd probably have better luck getting adults to follow instructions. Medic, I’m thinking of how the building may have been modified without permits - a warren of bedrooms with only a door (often deadbolted) for access. In other words, not what you’d expect when you enter a single family home - few smoke detectors and occupants who often don’t know each other or how many people should be in the house.

I agree that you’d probably have better luck getting adults to follow instructions.

]]> By: /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43050 /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:05:16 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43050 anonymoustoo, As a medically retired Firefighter / Paramedic with 10 years experience, there is little difference when the building is on fire. It is harder on me personally if children are involved. The only benefit might be that adults may follow directions better, but fear paralyzes all victims pretty much the same. anonymoustoo, As a medically retired Firefighter / Paramedic with 10 years experience, there is little difference when the building is on fire. It is harder on me personally if children are involved. The only benefit might be that adults may follow directions better, but fear paralyzes all victims pretty much the same.

]]> By: anonymoustoo http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43046 anonymoustoo Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:52:16 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43046 "Reasonable cause" is the clue. Zoning has to have a reason to suspect that the eight guys in the house are unrelated. And it can't be simply that they're Hispanic. How should large families be treated? Is it easier to get twelve adults out of a burning building (despite illegal renovations they may have done to the house) or two adults and ten children who are all related? Fairfax County has a pilot neighborhood revitalization program going on in the Kings Park subdivision. Many of its features are modelled after neighborhood watch programs (trained block captains and block participation). The County offers a training program on police response, zoning, building code (?), etc. It offers resources for learning English. More info can be found here (particularly the past editions of the newsletter): http://www.kings-park.org/ “Reasonable cause” is the clue. Zoning has to have a reason to suspect that the eight guys in the house are unrelated. And it can’t be simply that they’re Hispanic.

How should large families be treated? Is it easier to get twelve adults out of a burning building (despite illegal renovations they may have done to the house) or two adults and ten children who are all related?

Fairfax County has a pilot neighborhood revitalization program going on in the Kings Park subdivision. Many of its features are modelled after neighborhood watch programs (trained block captains and block participation). The County offers a training program on police response, zoning, building code (?), etc. It offers resources for learning English. More info can be found here (particularly the past editions of the newsletter):

http://www.kings-park.org/

]]> By: /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43037 /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:26:19 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43037 Good question Maureen, looks like it has already been addressed in that one. Good question Maureen, looks like it has already been addressed in that one.

]]> By: One Voice http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43036 One Voice Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:21:51 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43036 It might just be when things escalate beyond zoning's training in dealing with uncooperative folks and where they (zoning) might feel they are being put in harms way. If it requires a warrent to get inside, zoning needs protection. Most folks don't respond well to warrents. This will allow zoning to continue to investigate which is cost effective but to get the help they need when they need it. It might just be when things escalate beyond zoning’s training in dealing with uncooperative folks and where they (zoning) might feel they are being put in harms way. If it requires a warrent to get inside, zoning needs protection. Most folks don’t respond well to warrents. This will allow zoning to continue to investigate which is cost effective but to get the help they need when they need it.

]]> By: Maureen Wood http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43031 Maureen Wood Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:03:31 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43031 I'm wondering if they are adding on to this bill instead of writing a whole new one? SB 1412. Authority of a zoning administrator. Whenever the zoning administrator of a locality within Planning District 8 (Northern Virginia) has reasonable cause to believe that any person has engaged in or is engaging in any violation of a zoning ordinance that limits occupancy in a residential dwelling unit, which is subject to a civil penalty that may be imposed in accordance with the provisions of § 15.2-2209, and the zoning administrator, after a good faith effort to obtain the data or information necessary to determine whether a violation has occurred, has been unable to obtain such information, he may request that the attorney for the locality petition the judge of the general district court for his jurisdiction for a subpoena duces tecum against any such person refusing to produce such data or information. Delegate Marshall voted Yes. Bill signed by Governor. I’m wondering if they are adding on to this bill instead of writing a whole new one?

SB 1412. Authority of a zoning administrator. Whenever the zoning administrator of a locality within Planning District 8 (Northern Virginia) has reasonable cause to believe that any person has engaged in or is engaging in any violation of a zoning ordinance that limits occupancy in a residential dwelling unit, which is subject to a civil penalty that may be imposed in accordance with the provisions of § 15.2-2209, and the zoning administrator, after a good faith effort to obtain the data or information necessary to determine whether a violation has occurred, has been unable to obtain such information, he may request that the attorney for the locality petition the judge of the general district court for his jurisdiction for a subpoena duces tecum against any such person refusing to produce such data or information. Delegate Marshall voted Yes. Bill signed by Governor.

]]> By: /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43029 /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:00:33 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43029 John, I am with you. If the ILLEGALS want to stop drawing so much attention to themselves, then they should assimilate. I do not want them to either. I want them out of the US as well. I am far from an ILLEGAL apologist!! John, I am with you. If the ILLEGALS want to stop drawing so much attention to themselves, then they should assimilate. I do not want them to either. I want them out of the US as well. I am far from an ILLEGAL apologist!!

]]> By: Bob Sentz http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43023 Bob Sentz Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:50:28 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43023 And, if a 'family' needs assistance there are several options. Section 8 for one. Oh, that's right, that's only available to LEGAL residents. And, if a ‘family’ needs assistance there are several options. Section 8 for one. Oh, that’s right, that’s only available to LEGAL residents.

]]> By: Bob Sentz http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43019 Bob Sentz Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:46:25 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43019 Frankly, the concept of a B&B vs. a boarding house is light years apart. And, I'm not apologetic for what I've accomplished (i.e., worked for). There is a direct correlation between the have's and have not's with the will and will not's. Frankly, the concept of a B&B vs. a boarding house is light years apart. And, I’m not apologetic for what I’ve accomplished (i.e., worked for). There is a direct correlation between the have’s and have not’s with the will and will not’s.

]]> By: Peter Danlyn http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43016 Peter Danlyn Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:24:17 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43016 Bob Sentz: A properly managed and regulated boarding house would have no more detrimental affect on a neighborhood than the herd of over-indulged, under-socialaized, meth-addicted, progeny of an apathetic middle class. I’m not saying that a boarding house should be considered in a building and/or area that is clearly inappropriate. I’m just saying that it should be a legal option for affordable housing. After all, the concept is really no different than a Bed and Breakfast. But what I understand you to say is that you acknowledge that no “family-friendly” options exist, and that you don’t care where they go. As long as they’re not on your street. How can you keep that smile on your face when you greet the grocery checker, or janitor, desk clerk or room maid, that makes (almost) a living serving you? Bob Sentz:

A properly managed and regulated boarding house would have no more detrimental affect on a neighborhood than the herd of over-indulged, under-socialaized, meth-addicted, progeny of an apathetic middle class.

I’m not saying that a boarding house should be considered in a building and/or area that is clearly inappropriate. I’m just saying that it should be a legal option for affordable housing. After all, the concept is really no different than a Bed and Breakfast.

But what I understand you to say is that you acknowledge that no “family-friendly” options exist, and that you don’t care where they go. As long as they’re not on your street. How can you keep that smile on your face when you greet the grocery checker, or janitor, desk clerk or room maid, that makes (almost) a living serving you?

]]> By: John Light http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43015 John Light Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:20:26 +0000 http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2007/12/06/bob-marshall-proposes-overcrowding-initiative/#comment-43015 /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 6 Dec 2007 at 2:01 pm: "As I have said in other threads, the ILLEGALS are going about it the wrong way, they should assimilate..." Actually, they should not assimilate. They should return to their country of origin and try the RIGHT way to enter. I don't care if they look like me, act like me, dress like me, and obey the laws like me - if they are here illegally, I want them out. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 6 Dec 2007 at 2:01 pm: “As I have said in other threads, the ILLEGALS are going about it the wrong way, they should assimilate…”

Actually, they should not assimilate. They should return to their country of origin and try the RIGHT way to enter. I don’t care if they look like me, act like me, dress like me, and obey the laws like me - if they are here illegally, I want them out.

]]>