Bob Marshall Proposes Election Reforms
By Greg L | 8 December 2007 | 13th HOD District, Illegal Aliens, Crime | 36 Comments
Delegate Bob Marshall has pre-filed two bills in the House of Delegates that would help to ensure the integrity of our elections by discouraging those who may not be eligible to vote from participating in an election. The first, HB 64, would require that notices be posted informing voters of the qualifications for voting and the penalties for violating these laws. A second, HB 65, would require that photo identification be presented by everyone seeking to cast a ballot. HB 68 tightens the requirements for demonstrating that you are a United States citizen when registering to vote. These proposals would discourage voter fraud and may reduce the number of those who perceive that illegal aliens may be unlawfully participating in elections and thus improve the public’s confidence in our electoral system in Virginia.
The very notion that illegal aliens may be slipping through the weak controls of federal motor-voter laws and participating in elections is an outrage. As the illegal alien problem continues to be a focus of state and local elected officials, thus increasing the likelihood that illegal aliens would want to participate in an election, the potential for this scenario to change the outcome of an election only rises. The key here is to help reform voter registration and election procedures to help reduce the potential for illegal aliens to unlawfully participate, while impacting the requirements for legitimate voters as little as possible. These bills are a part of a solid, incremental approach to resolving these concerns, and Delegate Marshall is to be commended for proposing these important reforms.
In case some might think this isn’t likely to be a problem, it has been for quote some time:
Charges were made in at least three federal elections in California [3] [4] and twice in Florida[5] that voting by ineligible aliens may have determined the outcome of the election. For instance:
* In Florida, election observers say a “sizable number” of Florida votes in the 2000 election may have been cast by ineligible felons, illegal immigrants, and non-citizens. [6]
* In California, former Republican Rep. Robert K. Dornan was defeated by Democrat Loretta Sanchez by 984 votes in the 1996 election. State officials found that at least 300 votes were cast illegally by non-citizens.[7]Investigation of the allegations established that aliens had illegally voted in those elections, but not in sufficient numbers to have changed the result. Authorities appear not to have prosecuted any of the aliens who voted illegally.
One interesting opportunity to determine the scope of this problem without impeding on the participation of legitimate voters in elections is to take a look at something else that registered voters do: serve on juries. When you register to vote, not only do you get the chance to walk into the voting booth, but you’re also put on the list of potential jurors to be called. Someone who is not a citizen cannot legally serve on a jury, and just as there’s a powerful incentive for some to vote, there’s likely an equally powerful incentive for an illegal alien to ask to be relieved of his illegitimate duty to support our justice system. Someone might be interested in asking the courts how many people have been excused from service because they’re not a citizen, as this person from Texas has done:
So down to the proof. Harris County, Texas discovered that those called for Jury Duty after registering to vote then went before a judge and said they couldn’t serve as a juror because they were not citizens of the United States.
Absolute and undeniable proof that there are foreign people voting in our elections. Anyone with one ounce of brain matter of course would realize that with the estimated 20 million illegal aliens living in our country that some of them would actually attempt to vote, but not according to Luis Figueroa the head of MALDEF who claimed there was no proof that this was occurring.
In addition to Delegate Marshall’s proposed legislation, our judges should be ensuring that each and every person using this excuse to avoid jury duty is tried for voter fraud. Really, this is tantamount to an illegal alien declaring in open court that they have committed a felony.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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This all sounds fine and well. I would also like to see something done about campaign reform. It damn near blew me off my broom when I read one Supervisor had raised more than $125K, and was running unopposed.
Picture ID has passed Constitutional muster. I do not believe government issue picture ID has passed muster. Reserving judgement until I see the bills. As usual, I warn about unintended consequences with new laws.
~~splash~~
Dolph: Fine and well for now I guess I should’ve said. Who the knows what will get hidden in there or left out. The jury is still out over here which is very common with me.
>>>>>>>>zooooooooom>>>>>>>>>
oops. Obviously flying too fast.
Who the heck knows what will get hidden in there or left out
>>>>zooooom>>>>
Ahh, more bills to be shot down again in the senate. We can’t be making life difficult for our illegal aliens now can we…
West Gate Witch:
I’m disgusted also with corporate interests, in particular developers, buying our Board of Supervisors. Check www.vpap.org for the details on campaign contributions. For example, Jenkins, Covington, and Nohe all received approximately $100,000 for the 2007 election cycle and none were opposed in primaries or the general election. Caddigan received slightly less in 2007 coming in at just under $50,000. She faced a trivial challenge for the Republican nomination but no opponent in the general election. Barg received over $75,000 and she wasn’t even running for reelection. Most of this money came from real estate and construction interests, and those in other fields, such as land use lawyers, etc. who all have a personal financial stake in development.
The developers and their lackeys are getting what they paid for and more. Those five supervisors killed enactment of the County staff’s revised proffers last October, which would have shifted more of the financial burdens of development off citizens and back to developers. Just this week, they approved Fireside Wesleyan Church’s bid to hook up to sewer in the Rural Crescent. This one is especially disgusting because Wally Covington exploited a group a good church people to get through this Trojan Horse maneuver that set a precedent that will make getting sewer in the Rural Crescent easier for developers in the future.
Jenkins, Covington, Nohe and Caddigan have not even been sworn in for their next terms yet and are already hard at work for their employers. I wish I could find employees who are as loyal and hardworking for the money I pay them as these supervisors are for the developers who write their checks.
Wait a minute, now.
According to HB68, if we were to move from one voting preceinct to another, we would have to re-register with a copy of our birth certificate?
Sounds to me like US citizens will bear the most burdens under these proposals with additional requirements for voting. Fewer people would vote.
Forget it.
Didn’t Stewart, Stirrup and May get any money from anyone?
Found it.
Chairman
District Candidate Raised
At Large Pandak, Sharon E (D) $255,830
At Large Stewart, Corey* (R) $142,826
Board of Supervisors
District Candidate Raised
Brentsville Covington, Wally* (R) $90,513
Coles Nohe, Martin E* (R) $84,042
Dumfries Caddigan, Maureen S* (R) $62,829
Gainesville Riley, Corey (D) $24,139
Gainesville Stirrup, John T Jr* (R) $75,998
Neabsco Jenkins, John D* (D) $132,155
Occoquan Gray, John S (I) $10,745
Occoquan May, Mike* (R) $22,501
Woodbridge Keen, Steve (I) $9,156
Woodbridge Principi, Frank (D) $82,448
Woodbridge Ramirez, Luis (I) $1,793
Woodbridge Royse, Chris (R) $25,380
There are fees associated with government issues IDs also. That could easily be seen as a poll tax of sorts.
Park’d, I am not bringing these things up to help illegal aliens. I do not think they have any business near the polls. I am concerned about American citizens. There are people who do not drive. I totally support a picture ID. I do not necessarily support a state or federal government issued ID.
It took me months and months to get my passport. It will take years to issue federal ID’s - not to worry Dolph. Be for it or be against it - it will take decades to get it straight. Or your name will be spelled incorrectly and that would take the rest of my 16yr olds life to get it straight. He would have to illegally enter Canada to be employed and earn an income while he wait for the feds to get it straight. Maybe he could retire in the US with his properly issued ID
Well, something ought to be done and the sooner the better. Heard on Paul Harvey news today that for the recent Russian election, some group was “bussed from poll to poll (sound familiar?), voting early and voting often.” He said 109% of the voters, voted.
Stewart, Stirrup and May obviously received campaign contributions also. However, the proof is in the pudding. All three of them voted for the revised proffers last October and against sewer in the Rural Crescent this week. None face reelection for four more years and all three have been voting in our interests rather than those of big-pocket corporations as Jenkins, Covington, Nohe, Caddigan and Barg have been doing.
I understand that Frank Principi, Barg’s replacement, signed the pledge to protect the Rural Crescent. Let me know if that’s incorrect. The vote on Fireside Wesleyan Church (precedent for sewering in the Rural Crescent) was originally scheduled for January after the new Board takes office. Covington had it switched as quietly as he could to this week, probably so Frank wouldn’t have a vote. A four to four tie would mean the measure fails.
Frank Principi is going to be a key player on the new Board. Only time will tell if he is going to act in the citizens’ best interests or be another stooge for the developers and other big contributors. If you’re reading this Frank, please take note because we’re watching closely what the Board does. You can be a hero to the citizens or join with the supervisors who have sold out. It’s your choice. Your vote would have changed the Board’s direction on proffers and opening the Rural Crescent to sewering and development.
Concerned,
I couldn’t believe that vote got moved up like that. Shame on Wally and ALL board members that voted YES. I wonder if my little church in Brenstville could upgrade to sewer just because they want it. This vote in NO way was in the best interest of the rural cresenct which is to be “sacred ground”. Well, after
Tuesday it no longer is.
I sure hope Frank P does the right thing. The good citizens will be watching there’s no doubt.
Yes, the proof is in the pudding for sure. I hate to be blunt, but I must on this one. Only three voted with the best interest of the county. Those other five should be so ashamed of themselves.
I welcome churches to our community, however they KNEW what the plan was, and they chose to work those on the board.
Why should a church not have follow the same rules the rest of the county is supposed to?
Not being a fan of Honorable Mr. Stewart as some of you might know, I was glad to see him, Mr. May and Mr. Stirrup vote against the church. I think our commercial tax base should be 1/3 greater if not 2x before any building happens in that area. Aside from the asethics of the situation.
I was with them on that vote.
Just for the record.
One Voice,
I’m glad to see you think the Honorable Mr. Stewart did the right thing, and to admit it too. Most aren’t willing to admit such things. We need to remind those other 5 jokers of the key word in the RURAL Crescent. I’m just concerned that now this been allowed for the church. Does that mean every Tom, Dick, and Harry will be given same consideration? Ha! I think not.
Lafayette - Well, fair is fair. I value fairness above a lot of things. Besides, I am not most people.
Didn’t you love Mr. May quoting Huckabee about WWJD???
I have to show ID now when I vote. How is this bill going to change that? As far a posting something to read, who is going to take time read it. Good grief, I just have to run the gaunlet of campagin workers who get in my way walking to the door. More superflous stuff by Marshall.
I have a question. What happens to the donations for campaigns while given, but not running. Does it sit in a bank and accrue interest? Are they able to do what ever they want to do with it? How does it work?
Back to our regularly scheduled program…
Are there any actual facts that back up the need to put additional barriers to voting in place? Was there rampant voting by ineligible voters in this last cycle? These are actually serious questions.
Turn Blue, do you want to have voter fraud BEFORE barriers are in place to prevent the abuse?
legal2-
What I want are legislators that focus their attention during limited legislative sessions on true issues of concern rather than wasting legislative time addressing non-issues. If Virginia does not have any current problems with rampant voter fraud, then this is a waste of time. Further, I am loathe to see hoops placed in the way of legitimate voters to protect against a non-existent threat. Such a bill has costs as well. Several states that have passed photo ID voter laws have had to defend those laws against court challenges. This law would require additional staffing at the polls and additional training for poll workers. I’m not saying that we should turn a blind eye to voter fraud, but we also need to expend resources wisely–from limited time in legislative sessions to our budget to the resources willing to work on election day.
I’m not sure how this is really going to keep illegal voters out of the polling booth.
Illegals who use false paperwork to get their driver’s licenses may register to vote at the DMV, per the Motor Voter law. All mthey have to do is check a box on their driver’s license application. Hence they will “legal voters” with a photo ID.
Follower of Jesus -
You left out one commandment: Thou shall not spam.
Vienna Citizen,
I agree with you. How well trained are the clerks at DMV?
Unfortunately, “motor voter” is BS. You should have to go before a registrar and to become a legal voter. I did, and it was no big deal. Afterall, voting is a right not a privilege. It shouldn’t be as easy as checking a box on your DMV forms.
The clerks at the Manassas DMV are pretty well trained. I felt like I was going through the Spanish Inquisition.
Dolph,
Yes, with VA documents!
How well trained are they regarding documents from the various countries around the globe? Hmmm
Isn’t this trying to solve the problem at the end of the problem? Not sure I would want to spend much of my tax dollars on this one. Did Marshall submit any about fining/punishing employers of illegals? I mean this seems pretty lame considering the bigger issues - IMHO
Mistletoe,
Documents from other countries should not be acceptable as forms of proof of US Citizenship or legal status. I question how much training voting registrars have also. What are the qualifications to be one? I have no clue.
I am leery of new laws, especially ones authored by Bob Marshall. I have no problem shoring up voter verification IF there is a problem. Meanwhile, I am on the lookout for unintended consequences. I will take the wait and see approach before jumping on the band wagon.
Greg L,
Formal request here to remove the spam. It is way off topic and takes up space.
Although not spam, it was rather off-topic and has been removed.
If anyone has questions about how comments are moderated, don’t hesitate to email me.
Dolph,
Oh the Bob Marshall, his is sly one. Bob’s bandwagon would be the last one I would jump on. I’m so glad we are in small portion of the county that’s represented by Jackson Miller.
I believe such laws are a preventive measure, and sends a message to the illegals. Um, that’s Ms. Mistletoe to you.
GregL,
Thanks. I agree with Dolph.
Nope, no Ms coming from the Dolph, for it was I who named you. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for preventative measures. I am just not sure these are the right ones. Perhaps they are. As I said, I need to know more before the magic seal of approval is bestowed. The moment something is required that costs a voter money, it will be considered a poll tax. I would probably prefer a model that has already passed Constitutional muster.
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Thanks Greg. It is your blog, you may call it what you wish. It was too long.
If the US had 1/2 the money used to secure Iraq’s border imagine what we could do with our own border wtih Mexico.
If the US had 1/2 the money used to build roads and bridges in Iraq imagine what we could do with our own infrastructure and save lives.
If the US has 1/2 the money used to build schools and hospitals in Iraq imagine what we could do with our own schools and healthcare.
Before anyone has the gall to ask me to spend one more dime of my money on a gas tax, poll tax or campaign, I want my Iraq money back.
I don’t care if the Whig party is resurrected, party alliance means nothing to me anymore nor should it to anyone else - I want to see some brave folks step up and suggest we take care of ourselves first. AND I believe it can be done with dignity and kindness.
Ten illegal votes is soooo unimportant compared to the rest of the mess this nation is in - at least to cost me money it is.
What exactly is the problem that these bills address?
Lafayette:
As a RIGHT and not a PRIVILEGE, we should make it as easy as possible for eligible voters to register. Rights should not in any way be infringed upon by making the process of exercising those rights burdensome without a really compelling reason to do so. Motor voter has done a lot to engage a lot of people in the electoral process. Going before the registrar was used in some states to create an undue barrier to exercising the right to vote. Since the requirements for proving identity to register to vote are actually less burdensome than the identity requirements to get a driver’s license, I would think that DMV staff would be MORE qualified than the Voter Registrar at evaluating such documents, especially since DMV staff will see more examples in a given day/week/month than someone at the Registrar’s office.
As I asked early and NoVA Scout just asked, though, what compelling, REAL problems does this bill address?