"We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge" - Barack Obama (aka President Malaise)
The Feds Gut Our Section 287(g) Program
By Greg L | 11 December 2007 | National Politics, Illegal Aliens, Manassas City | 47 Comments
Not only has the federal government nixed the idea of a regional Criminal Alien Initiative in Prince William, which would have ensured a consistent training and operational approach to dealing with criminal illegal aliens in the area, but it has only approved a single slot for the Manassas City Police Department in it’s training for the Section 287(g) Program according to the MJM. One might get the impression that the Department of Homeland Security had lost interest in the program.
And one might well be correct in arriving at that conclusion.
This bad news was delivered to the Manassas City Council this evening by Manassas City Police Chief Skinner, which prompted councilman Steve Randolph to inadvertently deliver a rather prescient comment:
After Skinner’s briefing, Councilman Steven Randolph expressed his disappointment with the latest development.
“It [amending the jail agreement] was the logical thing to do, the economical thing to do so I am not surprised that the federal government decided to do something different,” Randolph said.
The truth here seems to be even more disconcerting than Councilman Randloph suggests. He chalks it up to incompetence, but the story that I’ve heard is far more disturbing. In October I got a tip that this might be in the works, but wanted to wait and see if this unconfirmed information was true:
Someone I know with deep contacts and close familiarity with Homeland Security just told me that the feds are “pulling back” 287(g). Don’t ask the reason - no one knows for sure. It may be framed as a cost saving or manpower saving measure. The truth may be something far more frightening. But the bottom line is the federal government is now going to be much less helpful in getting local jurisdictions trained by ICE under 287(g).
So now we have confirmation.
It’s time to absolutely raise hell at the federal level. This program has helped Prince William County identify 425 criminal illegal aliens in the few months since it got the Section 287(g) Program running at the Prince William County Adult Detention Center. That’s over four hundred criminal illegal aliens who will not be released back into our communities after they complete their sentences, and includes MS-13 gang members, child molesters, and drug dealers. The success of this program cannot be doubted, and by using local police and correctional officers to augment efforts by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, it is a huge federal cost savings and a tremendous increase in capabilities.
It’s time to contact your Congressman and Senator and demand that they start putting on the pressure to get this program back on track. Congress passed this law so that state and local police and correctional officers could more effectively play a part in federal immigration law enforcement. With over 700,000 state and local law enforcement personnel in the United States, and only about 13,000 agents at Immigration and Customs Enforcement, if we are to address the problem of illegal aliens in the United States all levels — local, state and federal are going to have an important role to play. Cutting the legs out from under the Section 287(g) Program like this significantly harms that effort. The executive branch is clearly trying to thwart the intent of Congress here.
Why is the Bush Administration working overtime to just royally piss all of us off? Haven’t they already learned their lesson on this issue?
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Greg–
Before everyone gets in hysterics, your read of the MJM story was very different than mine (surprise). What I read is that DHS want separate applications rather than a joint application because the program wasn’t set up for regional initiatives and DHS didn’t want to set a precedent. This wisdom of this thinking may be questioned, but that’s a different argument.
As to the number of slots for training, DHS is still under a Continuing Resolution (CR) because their budget hasn’t been passed. Training programs always suffer under a CR, so I think you’re reading too much into this. Your un-named, unconfirmed source does not have his story confirmed by this at all. Nothing in this article says ICE will be less cooperative or that the 287(g) program is being shelved.
Again, before whipping up a frenzy of righteous indignation, you need more than rumor and the twisted interpretation of an MJM story (which I notice lost the urinal reference sine this story is one you like).
Greg start raising cain with your boy Frank Wolf. He could introduce legislation to fix this. Oh yeah you are one of his supporters so he gets a pass. ICE can only train one from Manassas and the Crime Commission wants the State Police trained. Get Frank moving.
Help me out here. I am obviously having reading comprehension problems this morning. I can’t follow the MJM story. Could be me, could be them. I also read a headline that a Metz student was killed crossing the street at the bus stop, but was released from Fairfax Innova on Saturday. (????)
Bottom line, is the 287(g) program for Prince William County still in tact? If no, what has changed?
Yes, the 287(g) program for Prince William is still intact, it just has to be filed as a stand alone application for each agency. Nothing was “gutted” and the training will proceed as planned for PWCPD.
The government is pulling another scam re border security on the American people. Read this article from Grassfire.org.
http://www.firesociety.com/article/19402/?src=105
Dolph at 8:01 am:
I got the same impression re the story about the Metz student. The headline said she was killed and a few lines later said she suffed a concussion and some facial fractures but was released from the hospital. Apparently no one checks the stories for accuracy before they are published. This is one type of story that should have been fully researched by the reporter and editorial staff since it involved an alleged fatality.
The girl was not killed. The release from the hospital is correct.
At every turn, the Federal Government, from Congress all the way to the top has placed roadblocks on securing our borders. There is no will to stop illegal immigration and nothing short of amnesty is the Government’s goal. Mexico’s president has been badmouthing our Government about how illegals are being treated in this country and claims that Mexican illegals are being held “hostage.” Not a word from anyone in our Government on these attacks. Calderon is coming to this country in February to continue his campaign for open borders and will be greated with open arms by GW. There was a History Channel program on last night regarding the U.S. Mexican war. Our only mistake was in not taking over the entire country instead of “purchasing” the northern portion. We wouldn’t have our border problems today and there would be one less corrupt government. By the way, Mexico is going to open two more consulates in this country. One in Alaska and another in Idaho. This will bring a total of 49 repeat 49 consulates of Mexico in this country. That in itself should tell the American people something.
The Bush Administration is thoroughly corrupt and anti-American. Much like his father, GWB cares more about global capitalism and international trade and the rich geting richer than he does about basic American values. He’s been a thoroughly corrupt liar of the highest order. This is one small manifestation of this trend.
Except for growing our trade deficit, selling away our jobs and property, mortgaging our children’s future, presiding over an illegal invasion that lowers wages and standard of living, starting a war under phony pretenses that STILL has Americans guessing why we’re fighting, bamboozling people with semantics to the point that Americans hardly know who we are or what we stand for circa 2007, eroding the division of powers that our nation is built on, stifling scientific research for political gain, and a few other things, he’s been a great President.
Huh?..isn’t that a pretty big difference between being killed and suffering a concussion.
The editors over there must be completely losing it.
Greg, Get your boy Frank Wolf on this. Why are the feds doing it. Oh yeah….you’re a supporter of his. He gets a pass. And you think State Police are going to get 287g training. Keep dreaming. Even if it goes into law, the feds can’t and won’t do the training.
There is some confusion here. Does anyone know if the City of Manassas has a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) with the Bureau of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement? If they do not then the Manassas politicians and police are playing a game with the voters as the very first step in getting 287(g) training with BICE is to establish such an agreement. The agreement establishes all of the ground rules for what authorities the municipality will have, how those authorities will be enforced and the responsibilities of the BICE supervisors.
Herndon completed negotiations and implemented their 287(g) enforcement program in the Spring of 2007 and completed their first training session for multiple police officers (the exact number is confidential). Herndon will prepare a deportation detainer on individuals suspected to be illegal aliens when that person is arrested for a class 2 felony or for driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
Herndon’s 287(g) program is very successful averaging 4-5 deportation detainers per month – not bad for a small town.
If the City of Manassas has an MOA with BICE, it is a public document and subject to disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). I suggest that a good citizen of the City of Manassas make a FOIA request to the City Clerk.
If there is no MOA then pressure should be exerted on the Mayor, City Council and Police Chief to stop playing games with rhetoric and semantics, create and approve a BICS MOA through the public hearing process and get sufficient officers trained to begin to make Manassas a very uncomfortable place for illegal aliens.
I am certain that copies of the Herndon BICE MOA and public hearing resolution would be made available to the Manassas politicos if they simply asked for them.
Just checked the MJM website and they still have not
corrected the headline. What a sorry bunch.
Folks should have an accurate source for local news and
the MJM isn’t it. Who wouldn’t be confused by their
headline/story?
Hope the young girl has a rapid recovery.
What Turn PW Blue said on 11 Dec 2007 at 7:43 am
I read the article and agree with what Turn BW Blue said. The Feds didn’t “gut” anything; we (PWC & Manassas) didn’t do our homework and apply for participation as the program intended. It’s nice that we tried to consolidate; however, that’s not how the program is set up. I can understand the Fed’s reluctance to establish a presidence for “creative requests” as that would cause an administrative nightmare. The right answer is to follow their guidance and re-submit.
Duh! Duh!!!!! Hello!!!! Been saying this for months that the feds won’t support us, but no I was wrong and an illegal alien apologist for thinking it and saying it. They are all busy making money on Iraq to worry about us little folks. But they got your votes because they are more MORAL than the others.
Don’t tell me NOW we are surprised that the feds won’t fufill their part? Did you REALLY think the Feds were going to deport ANY of them?????
Let’s see how powerful our PWC leadership is with the feds in getting this itty bitty part done. Talk is cheap and that’s ALL I’ve seen.
“Herndon’s 287(g) program is very successful averaging 4-5 deportation detainers per month – not bad for a small town.” Operative word here is DETAINERS should be DEPORTED.
Bush is the best President Mexico ever had.
You made me laugh out loud. Well said. Can we add Iraq?
The real issue here is that Manassas, Manassas Park, and Prince William tried to piggyback on the agreement already in place for the detention center. DHS said, no, that’s not how it works. You need to submit separately.
As for the number of slots allocated for training, this slot was allocated for the city even though the city is NOT YET PART OF THE PROGRAM (the detention center is but the city is not)! I think that’s pretty magnanimous on the part of ICE to allow the city to send anyone while the city prepares and submits its application under the proper guidelines (rather than the shortcut that was attempted).
The story on the MOU with ICE in Manassas, as I understand it is that the city first tried a regional MOU and was told no. ICE then relented and said this could be done after the elected officials started talking to ICE’s senior leadership. After ICE blessed this concept, the Regional Criminal Alien Initiative was crafted and submitted to ICE. Now ICE is coming back saying that this previously approved approach is no longer going to be accepted. The city did its homework, but ICE keeps changing the rules.
This fits the intel I had gotten before that ICE wanted to slow down the process of nailing down MOUs and scheduling training in order to limit the growth of the program. By throwing up administrative hurdles like this, they don’t have to actually enunciate a policy that folks would get upset about, but they can effectively implement policy through bureaucratic ineffectiveness.
Manassas has been working this for over a year now, and they’ve been getting inconsistent stories on what the policy of ICE is. Meanwhile, other jurisdictions which have signed up for 287(g) in other parts of the state are similarly facing bureaucratic hurdles that Herndon and PWC never had to face.
Greg L – I would surmise that the anti-federal law enforcement factions in the police department and the city council know that they can slow down the process through endless negotiations with BICE. That is a good strategy if the politicos want to do nothing.
Herndon’s strategy was to craft an MOA with a very narrow scope with the intent of expanding that scope in the future. The Herndon MOA limits federal law enforcement authority to those arrested for felonies and DUI.
Here is a link to Herndon’s MOA: http://www.dhusch.com/BICE/287(g)%20MOA%2028FEB07.
The formula is simple - narrow the scope - get something in place - expand it in the future.
The City of Manassas could do the same thing if they had the political will.
But I wouldn’t necessarily spin this as ICE not wanting the program or there not being political will behind. Rather, I would surmise that the real hurdle is the cost of the training. I would be willing to bet that someone at DHS underestimated what the demand would be for participation in the 287(g) program and as a result the training portion is severely underfunded. Add to this the fact that DHS is operating under CRs, and it’s easy to see that there is no nefarious plot against 287(g), but rather that the program is a victim of its own success.
I’ve done some contracting work with DHS. From what I’ve seen, they don’t have the organizational maturity to pull off something this diabolical intentionally.
DennisD said on 11 Dec 2007 at 12:02 pm:
Greg L – I would surmise that the anti-federal law enforcement factions in the police department and the city council know that they can slow down the process through endless negotiations with BICE. That is a good strategy if the politicos want to do nothing.
This is exactly what the Federal Government is doing. Drag feet, slow the process down and do nothing in the hopes that Congress will pass another amnesty bill. 3 billion dollars was removed by the house that was supposed to go to building the fence. Can you believe that the ACLU and the AFLCIO filed suit to stop Homeland Security for enforcing the e-verify law? Chertoff says he will fight it through the courts (we might have a ruling from the courts in 5 or 6 years after appeal after appeal is filed by both sides. Congress is still playing games and now it’s senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-Tex) doing the smoke and mirrors. There is absolutely no resolve with this government to do ANYTHING about illegal immigration. Wanna bet that Heath Schuler’s SAVE ACT never sees the light of day in the House?
I’m sorry to have to say this, but I believe unless a high level elected official, or Government employee is directly impacted by illegal aliens through criminal action we will continue to see the Feds inaction against illegal immigration. It might also take another terrorist attack for the Feds to finally wake up. though, one would think the attempted attack against Fort Dix by some, including illegals, would have done that.
I can think of no other issue with a larger disconnect between the elites of this Country, and the average American.
DennisD at 12:02 pm:
That link you provided in no good (NOT FOUND.)
Turn PW Blue - the cost of training Herndon police officers in addition to their normal salaries was $0.00
I believe the training lasted six weeks.
Herndon provided the training classroom so there may have be a cost for coffee
Allow me to offer some clarification:
The 287g program was first brought to the fore by Jackson Miller whilst he was on Council. After much discussion with ICE, our Chief Skinner and internal debate, the Council passed a resolution asking the jail board to consider joining the 287 program instead of having the City go it alone. This made a lot of sense at the time as the majority of the MOU’s that ICE had already agreed to were with jails and other detention centers. It was a style of agreement that the feds were comfortable with. This MOU remains in place and is producing results.
As to the tri-party agreement, since our communities and governments are so closely knit, it made a lot of sense to try it that way. My understanding is that initially ICE was ok with it but later decided against it. It’s frustrating but I suppose we will move forward and try to negotiate 3 seperate agreements.
DennisD:
The cost to Herndon was $0, but someone had to pay for the training (hint: DHS). Trust me, a six-week training program is not cheap or free. It’s DHS that currently has no funding since their budget is being held up in Congress.
Why are we surprised? The Republican led Coalition of the WIlling, has not wanted to address (actually they have encouraged) the Illegal Immigration Problem we face here at home.
Lack of enforcement, Lack of Will, What is the status of the Border Fence? - Nada. Deport an illegal - nada - they keep them here.
But, do we help ourselves - ask yourself - how many times have you hired a contractor to complete a task at your home or business? Have they brought in workers who you think are illegal? What did you do? Nothing - that is right, you did nothing Knowing full well that these day laborers were probably illegal aliens. If you would just learn to say no, we would not have this issue (er, getting confused with the just say no tosex).
Anyway, even Mitt Romney wanted to save money by hiring a contractor, who in turn hired illegal aliens - He can claim he did not know that they were illegal aliens, but he would speak to them on a daily basis, and spout out saying in Spanish.
Turn PW Blue said on 11 Dec 2007 at 3:27 pm:
DennisD:
The cost to Herndon was $0, but someone had to pay for the training (hint: DHS). Trust me, a six-week training program is not cheap or free. It’s DHS that currently has no funding since their budget is being held up in Congress.
Plus while your three-six officers are gone, someone is working overtime to fill in. The cost for training is also free if the officers you send from Virginia don’t have to go to Georgia. DHS doesn’t pay room and board.
ALL ILLEGAL aliens should be deported. Let’s implement the S.T.A.R.F.A.G. (Selected Termination And Reassignment For Affected Groups) program IMMEDIATELY!! The deportee gets a necklace or as some here have mentioned an anklet, that has an explosive charge on it. Once they cross the border it will immediately detonate. No worries about repeat offenders to the immigration laws of the US. The anklet will be the first phase, if they come back across, they will loose a foot. The second time, they loose their head.
We could go a route that is less destructive and just inject a tracking device into them. Of course this will have an explosive charge to it as well so if tampering has been detected, it will detonate. Either way, we will loose a great deal of problems. This will make them think twice about coming back over. Knowing this would be their fate, might also prevent them from coming in the first place.
Another deterrent may be forced gang labor if caught. Once the ILLEGAL alien has been caught, they are put on trash detail for the highway department, shovel snow, clean creeks, wash toilets for the gov’t or whatever else needs to be done. This would give a whole new meaning to taking the jobs Americans do not want to do.
Medic 64
A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swift comes to mind.
This is a problem. I think all of the businesses that these firms represent should move their business else where. Obviously they charge too much if they have the resources to do this.
http://www.nbc11.com/news/14764402/detail.html?rss=bay&psp=news
Can’t comment on that story; been down that road.
Weeeellll One Voice, That one is a bit harsher than mine (c: I am not so sure how well cannibalism will fair any better than my solution. ~(c;
All kidding aside, the lack of negative reinforcement is why we have this issue. We need more public negative reinforcement of the law whether it is gang labor or removing a foot. Public hangings could be a useful deterrent.
How is that negative reinforcement for the homeless man?? He now has medical insurance, health club, 3 squares, hot shower and a comfortable cot to sleep on.
Totally agree with CitizenofManassas. The disconnect betwen the elitists who run things and the rest of us is huge - in both our established parties.
Some of you like AnonymouS above try to persist in seeing this as something the GOP lacks “will” on, as if they want to do the right thing. Face the music. Your party is run by elitist scumbags like Bush, McCain, Guiliani, Huckabee, McConnell, Graham, et al and they did their best to inflict Amnesty on all of us. Anything that lowers wages and provides votes is A-OK with them. Even at this late date, most of the Presidential nominees are notoriously soft on the issue.
Totally agree with CitizenofManassas. The disconnect betwen the elitists who run things and the rest of us is huge - in both our established parties.
Some of you like AnonymouS above try to persist in seeing this as something the GOP lacks “will” on, as if they want to do the right thing. Face the music. Your party is run by elitist sleaze bags like Bush, McCain, Guiliani, Huckabee, McConnell, Graham, et al and they did their best to inflict Amnesty on all of us. Anything that lowers wages and provides votes is A-OK with them. Even at this late date, most of the Presidential nominees are notoriously soft on the issue.
Bottom line on immigration is the economic value to the few in this country that run things - Republican or Democrat. Whether it be employment, trade or both, nothing is going to change until there is an economic gain by reversing it. This doesn’t impact them now and never will.
So, any ideas?
Bottom line on immigration is the economic value to the few in this country that run things - Republican or Democrat. Whether it be employment, trade or both, nothing is going to change until there is an economic gain by reversing it. This does not impact their quality of life now and never will.
It’s greed and the love for money.
One Voice - what you say is absolutely true about conducting the training in Georgia. That is why it is important to have enough people in a training class to do the training locally (no travel expenses).
Herndon found a way to suffer (sic) through the process and it is a small Town. I would think a city would have significantly more resources to spend to establish this deterrent to the presence of illegal aliens. While the illegal alien, anti-law enforcement advocates don’t like it, the program works even in the very narrow context of Herndon’s implementation.
IMHO it is up to the voters in the City of Manassas to press the politicos to act. If they opt out or choose a delaying tactic, the same thing may happen to them as happened to the illegal alien supporters in Herndon.
Citizens choice.
Rick, you need to include the voting record of the Dem nominee’s as well. It is a political issue not just for one party. Once this affects the right people, then and only then will it be changed. COM is absolutely right with this statement.
_______________________________________________
The open arms policy has to go! We have our arms full with what we have on our plate. We are not racists if we want the law enforced. That is a word used to generate the feelings of the Black communities plight. Enforcement does not equal racism. I wonder how many ILLEGAL aliens know what that means?
DennisD said on 11 Dec 2007 at 4:29 pm:
One Voice - what you say is absolutely true about conducting the training in Georgia. That is why it is important to have enough people in a training class to do the training locally (no travel expenses)
Yeah, but EVERYONE wants it locally. That’s the problem. No one has any more money than anyone else to start paying for this issue. Sigh…..
Sorry about the double post - I got some strange message. Apologies.
[Ed. Note: I’m in the process of refining a new anti-spam system, and some of you (such as OV) are requiring more work than others. It appears that either your network or browser is trying to modify content after you hit submit, and this anti-spam system thinks anytime this happens it’s probably a spammer. After I free your comments, the system goes back and checks comments again and spanks them back down. I’m working on this, and hopefully will have this issue resolved soon. So some of you out there with more exotic things happening to your internet traffic are going to experience some difficulties sometimes until I manage to figure out how to accommodate the strange behavior of your systems.]
It’s related to how you gonna pay for 287(g). It’s not free. And there is a lack of money. So, you defer your bonds and use the planned debt payment for other urgent issues like 287(g). See, it works.
It doesn’t need to cost so much. I’m sure Sheriff Joe Arpaio could provide quality training–quickly and cheap. They’re already law enforcement officials, after all. DHS is just trying to make it into too big a deal.
monticup–
How much do you think training costs?
A *cheap* instructor is $1000/day. For a six-week course, that’s $30,000 for the instructor alone. Now add in the cost of training materials (let’s say ~$100/student) and a training facility ($500-$1000/day). Don’t forget the cost of getting the instructor and/or students to the class.
The reason most of these types of training events are offered at regional locations is economies of scale. The instructor and facilities are a fixed cost that really doesn’t change with the number of students (if a classroom seats 30 people, you don’t pay less when you only have 3 in class…if an instructor is $1000/day that cost doesn’t fluctuate based on class size). Since most jurisdictions are only sending 1-5 officers at a time, it is most cost effective to have the class in, say, Georgia and send people there until it is full.
Greg, you are correct and this is why we need to stop Mike Huckabee..he is just as soft on Illegal immigration as Bush is. Give me a break, this is a regional problem and the approach by the jurisdictions is the best way to keep from tripping over themselves–they should be applauded. Its DHS who doesn’t have a clue..ahh give me more government and I’ll show you more stupidity