Celebrating Lawlessness In Prince William
By Greg L | 12 December 2007 | Prince William County | 97 Comments
If you ever wondered why property code enforcement in Prince William County is so tremendously ineffective at resolving overcrowding problems, one need look no farther than Michelle Casciato of the Prince William Neighborhood Services Division, as quoted in today’s edition of the MJM.
“It may be a three-bedroom house, but you can safely sleep 17 or 18 people there,” she said.
Excuse me? Who in their right mind would ever think to tell county residents that it’s acceptable for someone to cram folks into a single family residence like this? Who would ever think that such a situation is sanitary, safe, or even tolerable for the community? This disgrace of a public servant should be fired immediately.
In Prince William County, the guidance of the International Fire Code acts as a last regulatory resort for those unwilling or unable to do their jobs to protect the quality of life in Prince William County. This “limit” comes into play only after inspectors have ascertained that all persons except for two are related, that older children of the opposite sex are not sharing bedrooms, and that the level of occupancy has not created unsafe or unsanitary conditions, among other things. Instead of actually verifying any of this, Casciato and her crew are legendary for ignoring all of these other requirements and simply doing this useless headcount test. Meanwhile, law-abiding residents adjacent to these public nuisances suffer.
It’s also quite possible that someone within the property code enforcement office is tipping off potential violators about imminent inspections as there have been numerous instances of obvious violations being concealed only a few hours before inspectors show up. I’ve learned that daily inspection schedules are printed out by a secretary and laid on the desks of the inspectors in the morning, making it a rather easy for someone to make a few bucks by selling this information. With absolutely no information security procedures in property code enforcement, the risk, if not the blatant practice of corruption here is staggering.
Four hundred and sixty complaints. Fifty-seven citations. Zero reported prosecutions. Are these folks trying to make Gerry Connolly’s joke of a “strike force” actually look like a model of effective zoning enforcement? At least that effort has resulted in a few prosecutions. Prince William County looks utterly ineffective in comparison to this jurisdiction, and instead of combating lawlessness, Michelle Casciato appears to be celebrating it, and the real possibility of corruption in her office.
Readers may want to let their supervisors know how they feel about this outrage. The email for the Prince William Board of County Supervisors is bocs@pwcgov.org, and I know they’re always interested in hearing from citizens.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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IMO, I don’t think these zoning people have assimilated themselves yet. Where are they from anyway? Zoning should clean house, thoroughly, and if they need bi-lingual people, they should hire interpreters on an as-needed basis, not to do the actual inspections/reporting.
“My office can turn any building or structure into a flop-house!” Casciato said.
A citizens committee should be formed to review all codes and fines. Up date and rewrite codes so enforcement can be done. Call your Supervisors to start this process.
This is insane! For many years the City of Manassas has taken a back seat to PWC and blamed for anything bad in the western part of the county. John Bobbit lost something in Manassas (just not in the City), the sniper was in Manassas (though not in the City), etc. Finally stupidity and lunacy are being correctly attributed to PWC and prove that the City has been and continues to be the better jurisdiction to both live and work.
Legal residents of PWC, speak with your wallet. We would welcome you in the City of Manassas. Our total tax burden is lower, our schools better, and our local government far more responsive to citizen issues and concerns. Thanks to Ms. Casciato for demonstrating the difference so clearly.
The lady should lose her job! Obviously she is turning a blind eye when she knows that there is a major problem! Just like that other inspector I remember people talking about who stated that he didn’t find anything when he did the inspections! There are good reasons why there is a limit for housing…one of the major ones is…..sanitation! If you place too much of a burden on the septic/sewer system….you can get sewage bubbling up from the ground! Other reasons:
1. Those people do not pay their fair share of property tax.
2. The surrounding community is less stable (due to too many “unknown” people coming and going - which is nothing other than living in a Wild West town).
3. Trash, trash, and more trash! Have you ever seen the trash (for only one week) that these houses leave out????
Traitors, traitors at every turn … and every level of government.
Border agents Ramos and Compean left to rot and held as political prisoners by Hispanic Caucus!:
http://www.dailypilot.com/articles/2007/12/11/politics/dpt-resolution11.txt
Contact this CHC = Congressional Hispanic Cabal, and share your thoughts:
http://www.house.gov/baca/chc/
Do you recall this guy - Ruben Hinojosa (TX) - and his efforts to acquire federal tax money to fund the National Council of La Raza?
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1999
Hinojos is a CHC member …
Connect the dots and follow the money trail.
Woohoo welcome back big P!
Mr Stirrup should take this on personally. He should be called and told of this and should make zoning reforms a personal project of his if he is serious about cleaning up PWC. It all starts with the employers and enforcement of zoning regulations. I guarantee we will see mass self-deportations if those two things were done. Anything else by the BOCS is just lip service. At least Manassas Park tells you they are going to screw you before they do it. PWC is promising the world and then failing to do the most basic things when not overhauling and/or enforcing zoning and employment regulations.
Michele Casiato loves to talk about the “popsicle sign” and how many they take down from the meeting. She said they are still put out on the weekends then companies are now taking the signs down and like the sticks in the ground. Well, if these violations are peaking on the weekends Zoning to needs to be working on the weekends.
She also, said they have open pools they are working on. Hmmm.. They still have done one damn thing about the inground pool with the trees growing out of it. This pool has standing water, trash, clothes, building materials and general trash. Ms Casiato, that pool was brought to your attention over two months ago. The entire BOS have seen pictures of this house. I will be reminding them of this house.
I loved the part when she said “we’ll work ourselves out of job”.
That won’t happen, because they need to go to the right address.
The Patiot,
Glad to see you are here. This woman got me so pissed last Quarterly report. I went down to BOS and addressed her false comments. She said then folks aren’t willing to get involved. Well, that is BS!! Then yesterday she said citizens are calling large number of violations. Then someone I think Wally said it was the “shot gun” effect. Well, that’s a real fine way to talk about the citizens that pay all of their salaries. The must be held accountable.
We need better enforcement!
park’d,
I will be the first call at Stirrup’s office this morning. This woman needs to get her act together, and those that work for her. Zoning must be held accountable. You’ve seen all we’ve wrote about zoning. Boy, just wait til Patty sees this. She can really tell some direct quotes from Ms. Casiato that will leave you shaking your head if it isn’t already.
The Patriot(corr). sorry for the typo!
Lafayette, keep pressing the issue and providing the “evidence” at the meetings. Call that lady and her team out on a continuous basis. Eventually, the board will see that she and her team are turning a blind eye and should be removed.
Actually, lafayette, maybe you can generate and present a regular “zoning” report from the community (pics, info., etc.) at citizens time. The report could have a running “punch list” with dates that the complaints were filed and what action “to date” has been taken. Over time, the board will see that nothing is being done (due to the patterns that will show up).
Remember, the BOCS did not want to pay for more services last year so they cut Neighborhood Services request for nine addtional staff. I would think adaquate staffing in zoning is a priority.
One Voice,
Adequate inspecting and enforcement is a priotity too.
I will be in touch later this afternoon. I’m not convinced they need all those folks. I think the inspectors are upset, because the citizens are getting involved, and they don’t like the heavier work load.
I can not put a price tag on “quality of life” issues, which zoning plays a huge role in. Zoning MUST do a more than just look at what’s been called in. They ignore other issues that are in addition to the original complaint.That means another call from the complainant and another trip from Zoning. Wasting time and money. They need to be smarter and open their eyes.
The inspectees (if that is even a word) are sure lucky I am not a zoning inspector! Maybe I should become one? If I was one, you better believe my regular reports would be full of action-oriented items!
Safely sleep 17 or 18 people in a 3 bedroom house? This woman has a a definite problem. If she doesn’t want to do her job, find someone who will. Is this another of the jobs that “Americans won’t do?”
Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 12 Dec 2007 at 7:45 am:
Michele Casiato loves to talk about the “popsicle sign” and how many they take down from the meeting.
I thought those “popsicle signs” were the county’s “flower.” lol
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 12 Dec 2007 at 8:02 am:
Actually, lafayette, maybe you can generate and present a regular “zoning” report from the community (pics, info., etc.) at citizens time. The report could have a running “punch list” with dates that the complaints were filed and what action “to date” has been taken. Over time, the board will see that nothing is being done (due to the patterns that will show up).
DOCUMENTATION, DOCUMENTATION, DOCUMENTATION!
The Partiot,
Let’s go down there and “whip them into shape”-lol
Zoning needs an overhaul of it’s staff.
Vigilant1,
Good one. How about that trash left behind at the empty houses. Still no word on the house at the corner. Have you heard anything?
Let’s getting Zoning cleaned up and start with Michelle Casiato.
I’ve heard it said she makes a SIX figure income for that. Hmm.
Does anyone know??
Documentation is exactly right. However, I always have pictures of the violation being called in. Take a look at some of these pictures. The pool is at 08Woodstock. Here’s just a few of my pictures, and the pictures in the Front Line newsletter are mine as well. Enjoy this gems!
http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/561184047yuacNi
corr THESE gems. (Diamonds in the rough) All of these zoning violations have been resolved.
What we have is typical third-world corruption at all levels, in various professions: realty, zoning, construction, politics, etc. Welcome to Manexico.
Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 12 Dec 2007 at 8:36 am:
Still no word on the house at the corner. Have you heard anything?
What house would that be?
Lafayette - Oh, I agree that adaquate staffing is subjective; There should be a way to measure individual inspectors case load and effectiveness to weed out the non-performers. I would think that the cases need to be weighted by complexity to provide accurate results. As a matter of fact, all their cases in their reports probably need that weight adjustment. Some are very simple, some take a lot of resources. Then they will know what staffing levels and at what caliber they need and if they are resolving 70% of cases when 100% of those are the simple ones, then it will be apparent that the complex cases are not getting enough attention. The more experienced folks should be getting assigned to the toughest cases. Also, multiple complaints regarding one address for multiple issues should be captured - this is not being done as you indicate. That should be part of the caseload analysis.
On the slides from yesterday, they did address engaging homeowners in their overall review process - look at the last four or five slides. So that is hopeful???
This is the logical outcome of Affirmative Action (now code named, “Diversity”) folks. You can blame Nixon/Agnew for that one.
Vigilant1,
Colgan’s old house.
One Voice can always be counted on for that cool business sense. Good ideas presented. I believe you are correct in your other posts about starting with the small things.
It would be interesting and productive to see where the real problems lie. Are they personnel issues, state law issues, access issues? Until we know where the ball is being dropped, it will be hard to correct the problems.
Getting some positive resolution on local neighborhood zoning issues improves our quality of life a lot more than chasing windmills that we will never really be able to accomplish.
Michele was brought in from out of no where at $70000 and employees that have been in the County were passed over. In fact my understanding was that the job was never advertize. So it must have been an inside hiring from the higher ups.
In one talk with her ,one could tell she was nothing but full of BS.
Everytime she gives a report it is so off based. Reminds me of the Human Rights and Carlos Labiosa. We sure have some failures that is getting our hard earned tax dollars.
There are some good Inspectors and they try very hard,but they have a lot of paper to wade through. Someone needs to put this all on track.
Does Virginia adopt a national code? If so, is it(Virginia) limited in enforcement? Does PWC adopt a Virginia code or is a state code imposed on the locality? The residents/square foot is pretty lenient in the code although I understand that there is a little wiggle room in interpretation (added sprinklers allowing for bedroom occupancy of some areas of a home , for example). I see a bit of “shoot the messenger” in these responses until you know exactly which codes apply to an area and how they can be changed…and which infractions can withstand a court challenge and whether they are worth a court pursuit.
BTW, I think the county should hire more inspectors.
Just me,
“Michele was brought in from out of no where at $70000 and employees that have been in the County were passed over. In fact my understanding was that the job was never advertize. So it must have been an inside hiring from the higher ups.”
So which was it? Was she an inside hire or brought in from outside?
I love how everyone’s an expert…go apply for the next open position!
anonymoustoo, as I stated before on another thread, “You
love to get into a pissing contest, no matter the subject!”
Atoo: Looks like they must be fully staffed! There’s no vacancies posted for Zoning that I see on this list.
http://www.pwcgov.org/jobs/applynow/printout.asp
WGW, so ask the BOCS to add more positions. If they approve more positions in this financial climate, be thankful. Really. But you (general “you”) need to find out what may tie county agencies’ hands. State codes? If so, that’s where the pressure needs to be applied.
Gone Fishing, pot-kettle-black.
i HOPE SOME ONE WILL BE AT THE mCcOART bLDG. ON fRI AT 10AM WITH COPIES OF THESE VIOLATIONS TO SHOW cHAVEZ?
iI hear citizens will not be able to speak. I wonder who is going to, Mexican people who are illegals here??
Why is she coming here,except to back up that poor report turned in by our local commission.
Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 12 Dec 2007 at 10:02 am:
Vigilant1,
Colgan’s old house.
No, nothing new except for the new sign that went up about a week ago. Don’t know why the original one came down unless someone put a contract on it and it fell through. The house across the street (white one that is vacant) for sale sign has been laying on the ground for over a week now (wind blew it down.) Bank will probably take that one over as it was way, way overpriced when it sold 2 years ago.
Dolph said on 12 Dec 2007 at 10:07 am:
Getting some positive resolution on local neighborhood zoning issues improves our quality of life a lot more than chasing windmills that we will never really be able to accomplish.
Maybe we should get Don Quixoti to join the zoning board. He was great at chasing windmills. lol
Should have added - and his name might help too.
I read the article that Greg linked to this post. I don’t claim to be an authority on Virginia code, so I am not sure if Michelle’s citations are correct or not. If she is correct, then I think we have a code issue rather than an issue with her leadership. Assuming that you have two married siblings with kids, in addition to two boarders, it is very possible to legally have 15 residents in a three-bedroom house. There is a difference between legal and safe, however. Maybe our newly elected representatives on the state level need to fix the code so that this loophole for overcrowding is closed.
Who in their right mind would have ever passed a code like this in the first place? It seems to me that a single family home should be just that.
I document as much as I can when I call PCE for violations. I try to take pictures. I do know there needs to be an attitude of knowing and then saying that overcrowding is a problem even though the state limits what can be considered overcrowding. I think that the state needs to look to see how many people can be in a house. Having 17 people in a bedroom is ridiculous. Then there is the question about how much authority PCE really has. I don’t think they have the same power as a police officer. That may be why (and correct me if I’m wrong Manassas City residents) Manassas City uses the police to investigate zoning violations. There needs to be changes in enforcement. I think burden of proof shoud be on the homeowner when there is evidence that the owner has turned his/her house into an illegal motel. A perfect concrete example of this is 10131 Lomond Drive. That property even has the backyard paved over to accomodate all the vehicles.
This is the second time of trying to post my comment.
I do document zoning violations. I try to take pictures. I know there needs to be the attitude of knowing and saying that overcrowding is a problem instead of saying it is okay to have 17 people in a bedroom. I believe the state limits what zoning enforcement can do. The state needs to look at how many people can be in a house. Having 17 or 18 people in a bedroom is ridiculous. Also, PCE doesn’t have the same authority as a police officer (Manassas City residents please correct me on this if I’m wrong) which is probably why Manassas City police investigate zoning violations such as overcrowding. There is a great need for changes in enforcement. Also, the burden of proof needs to fall on the homeowner when that homeowner uses his/her house as an illegal motel. A perfect example is on Lomond Drive where the back yard is paved over to accomodate vehicles.
In response to: Proud2BManassas said:::::
I don’t know what experience you have had with overcrowding in Manassas City but I can tell you that when three homes were reported on my street by me and several neighbors the response to at least one was that the occupants were told to cut bigger windows in some walls to allow egress for more people.
I have documentation from City inspectors that have the occupant load changing over time for one address from seven to into the teens.
Here is a message excerpt from one of my neighbor’s comm. with THE City overcrowding person.
“We have received your complaint and will advise you of the findings. Please be advised that this residence has an occupant load of over twelve and this is a very large family and all are not oriental.”
This is for a three-bedroom home that has been known as a flophouse for at least four years. Storm door propped open, back yard gate open at night to accommodate the drop-offs from Ashton Avenue (right over the guard rail).
This actually was from before the three Mexican flophouses came to be on our street.
I could go on, but you get the idea. Don’t count your blessings too quickly as this could be coming to a home near you soon! Only then will you learn the effectiveness of our government in Manassas City!
jfk; you are correct, we do have a code issue. I have dealt with enough of these people to believe they are doing what they can (in most cases) and they are restricted by the current law.
“We have received your complaint and will advise you of the findings. Please be advised that this residence has an occupant load of over twelve and this is a very large family and all are not oriental.”
———————————————
Isn’t the term ‘oriental’ considered to not be PC? I thought the ‘correct’ term was asian? Orientals are rugs!
I guess I won’t call in the next three houses set
up in my neighborhood in the last 2 weeks. One
house has NINE cars/trucks in the driveway, yard, front, and garage. Probably a non-issue.
I got a message about one house I reported back
in September. The inspector said they didn’t show up to court so she will be prosecuting them. There’s still
a truck and construction equip. in the front yard.
Madmom, you should call this in. I do know there is a code that prohibits parking motor vehicles on the front lawn.
My experience with the county was positive. When I noticed people in my neighborhood entering their house from the back entrance, I used the on-line form to file a complaint. I was contacted the next day by an inspector who informed me he would be looking into the matter. Within two weeks I was contacted again by the inspector. He visited the home, and found two boarders were living in the home. However, because there was a full kitchen in the basement, he was able to cite the homeowner and require that the kitchen be dismantled. Apparently, not being able to cook in the basement was a big deal, because the boarders have subsequently left and only one family is living in the house now.
My advice: be vigilant and continue to submit the complaints. Our opposition wants us to quit. Let’s work the system until it either breaks or we get the attention of someone who will actually do something about it.
jfk, If the code was written in the early 1900’s that could very well be the way it was. Large farm families were common place so they had to be considered when the code was written. We are thinking about a smaller version today of a farm house that was 4-5,000 sq/ft back then, which could comfortably fit that many people in there. We need to revisit the code and make sure it has been updated to fit today’s needs.
kind of off topic but did anyone happen to read the article on Walter Tejada (Arlington County Board Chairman)? He is quoted as saying “VA is a state that has not been that friendly to immagrants”. He also says “we need to promote the integration of immagrants”. Glad I don’t reside in Arlington…
TBD, You are correct. I hate PC anyway myself. I hate hyphenated American too!! We are all Americans. This goes directly against what T Roosevelt said:
From the melting pot of life in this free land all men and woman of all nations who come hither emerge as Americans and nothing else. They must have renounced completely and without reserve all allegiance to the land from which they or their forefathers came. And it is a binding duty on every citizen of this country in every important crisis to act solidly with all his fellow Americans, having regard only to the honor and interest of America, treating every other nation purely on its conduct in that crisis, without reference to his ancestral predilections or antipathies. If he does not act, he is false to the teachings and lives of Washington and Lincoln; he is not entitled to any part or lot in our country and he should be sent out of it.” - - (Theodore Roosevelt, “The Children of the Crucible” New York, Sept. 9, 1917)
____________________________________________
“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.” - - Ronald Reagan
sorry, article was in the Metro section of the Washington Post.
“The government’s attitude at all levels is to punish the dutiful citizen’s misdemeanors while ignoring the alien’s felony, on the logic that the former will at least comply while the latter either cannot or will not.” (Victor Davis Hanson, “Mexifornia, Five Years Later.”)
reallyfedup, I do not see that VA is against immigrants at all. I see citizens fed up with the lack of performance on the Gov’t’s part to do something about ILLEGAL aliens.
______________________________________
The ILLEGAL alien issue is gathering steam as many people are tired of the infiltration of law breaking people. I see this as an important issue in the 08 Presidential election. It may not have been in 07, but it will be by the time the 08 Presidential race comes up. I am also wondering how many have realized the dems haven’t done anything in congress this year. It sin’t because of Bush, it is because they have not sent him anything purposeful in the way of legislation. It will be interesting to see if a Rep gets into office next year, how many will keep the dem congress seated.
Proud2BManassas,
I hope you aren’t using those middle school math SOL math scores as an example of better schools in MC than PWC. Shudder. I don’t think the 2 systems can even be compared. MC’s scores were lower than the very poorest school in PWC by almost 20 points.
/\/\3|)iç 64 - I agree with you, nobody should be against “legal” immigration.
However, the statements he has said lead you to believe that he will be pretty soft on “illegal” immigrants. In the article he even mentions that “in recent elections, for example, some politicians in PWC called for a crackdown on illegal immigrants rather than recognizing the contribution they make to the local economy”. I could be wrong but that sounds to me like he may be pretty soft on “illegal” immigrants.
Re:
/\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 12 Dec 2007 at 2:21 pm:
More legislation isn’t really what’s needed to clean up this mess. First, the borders need to be secured. That may require an appropriation, but no further laws
Second, the laws already on the books need more enforcement, specifically 8 USC 1324 and 1324a. Again, no more legislation, just more money to the right agencies, and appointment of the right people to head those agencies.
Those two efforts would go a long way to curbing further illegal immigration, as well as encouraging self-deportation. Once the situation stabilizes, the deportation/amnesty question could be addressed.
I am against the volume of legal immigration. Go listen to Roy Beck on Numbers USA.
You are right Advocator. I agree with your point about enforcement. I do not want any more Gov’t than there has to be. I am for shedding quite a few Gov’t workers as it is. I was working as a contractor for the FAA. One of the employees was retiring in 3 months. He rode his desk hard those last few months. It was nothing for me to walk by and see him sleeping. I would make some sort of noise to wake him every time I caught him doing so.
OneVoice,
Here’s one of my favorites. The “Immigration Gumball”.
I know must have seen this now. However, with some many
“new arrival” on bvbl lately.They may have not seen this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ
corr
I know MOST have seen this BY now.
They will probably end up giving this nitwit the employee of the year award.
I love that one LaFayette!! I have posted the link here myself.
/\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 12 Dec 2007 at 3:21 pm:
You are right Advocator. I agree with your point about enforcement. I do not want any more Gov’t than there has to be. I am for shedding quite a few Gov’t workers as it is.
DITTO!
/\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award)
The Patriot loves it too. It’s real eye opener for those who like to wear those blinders.
Border fence : From Grassfire.org
Today, Jerome Corsi of WorldNet Daily has posted a story regarding
the Hutchison amendment to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
appropriations bill.
In the article, congressional staffers confirm that the amendment
does, in fact, give DHS discretion over the location of the
fence. Even more, DHS would not be required to build the
double-layer fence mandated by the Secure Fence Act.
Go here to read the article:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59159
The plain fact is that Congress passed a law that mandated a
double-layer fence covering 854 miles of our southern border.
That is what the American people reasonably expected to happen
when the Secure Fence Act was passed and signed into law last year.
But the Hutchison amendment has the real potential to
essentially gut the Secure Fence Act.
Senator Hutchison and others who supported her amendment did
vote for the Secure Fence Act. They may sincerely support
border security and may have good motives for wanting to give
DHS discretion. But this amendment creates a loophole that
means the double-layer fence mandated by the Secure Fence Act
is no longer mandated and final decisions are left to DHS on
if and where the fence is built.
As a staffer for Rep. Duncan Hunter said, quoted in the WorldNet
Daily article, “This new requirement no longer mandates that
fencing be double-layered.”
To everyone on here who has not researched and again makes incorrect statements. It is possible a one bedroom house could sleep 17 or more people safely. That is because it goes by the size of the bedroom, not how many. I don’t agree with it, but that is the law. In addition, it doesn’t matter where you live in the Commonwealth, the number of people who live in a house would not change no matter where the house is located, as long as that jurisdiction has adopted the Proprty Maintenance Code, which is a local option. If it has not been adopted, then there is no limit to the number of people who can live in a house. As it was explained to me, VA adopts an International Building Code with some state modifications and at must be enforced by every jurisdiction in the state. The state adopts an International Property Maintenance Code with state modifications and it may be adopted by the local jurisdiction. This code is where the occupancy limit of houses comes from. Bathrooms are not taken into the equation. Only the size of living, dining and bedrooms. Most houses are limited by the size of the bedrooms not the living and dining rooms. The bedrooms must be 70 square feet and for two or more people. 50 square feet per person. So a 250 square feet bedroom could have 5 persons legally in that one room. Ms. Casciato is actually pretty much on target as I can see. You may not like it, and I don’t because it especially affects me here on Bayberry, but she seems to be correct on everything she says on that part of the code. Pretty funny, I called Manassas for this and they wanted my name and my adress and wanted to know why I wanted the info. I got tired of 20 questions so I called the town of Herndon and spoke to one of their inspectors/supervisors. She was very helpful and gave me places to go to confirm the information.
correction, the bedrooms must be 70 square feet and for two or more persons 50 square feet per person. My apologies.
I am a Manassas City resident. The enforcement of the codes in the city are also totally inadequate. They take the word of residents that they are related — they simply do not enforcing overcrowding laws unless the people essentially admit a violation.
In addition, the City people essentially accuse people who complain about overcrowding or being racists or of not understanding cultural differences. I have spoken Spanish my whole life and understand and like the hispanic culture (which actually consists of many variations depending on the country of origina of the people). The claims of the city (or county) burocrats that culture sensitivty somehow justifies not doing their job is maddening. It is no wonder that so many folks are voting with their feet and moving to neighborhoods with homeowner associations that have no problem with enforcing certain standards.
slh, while I agre with you that enforcement is inadequate, how do you propose the City or anyone for that matter prove if someone is related?
And the total number of three bedroom houses in Prince William County that have a combined square footage to allow 18 persons? Maybe, just maybe there’s one or two.
Whether it’s theoretically possible for this to legally happen is irrelevant. Clearly there are vanishingly few houses where this would be possible, and we demonstrably have hundreds of houses where 18 or more people are crammed into a three bedroom house of less than 1,200 square feet in an unlawful manner.
Cosciato is feeding us a bunch of BS.
Actually the house where the murders were commited were a little over 1500 sq feet, according to landrover. The finished basement area listed counts as livable space. *I* wouldn’t want to live packed in like that. I thought it was mighty crowded over here on Sudley Manor Drive with 4 of us here at times.
Greg, do you know of any plans for Virginia to tighten up that universal code during this legislative session? I honestly believe that until we can insist on community standards being enforced, we are pretty much hamstrung from doing much of anything. Also, can there be different standards for living in a home one owns vs living in a home one is renting?
There is also the matter of ingress and egress in a house.
I don’t know how I continue to be surprised by those who are active on this site. The amount of uninformed hatred expressed here has largely driven me away from BVBL, but I have to comment on this one. To personally attack a county staff member is completely uncalled for. Staff does not make policy; the Board, to the extent the state allows, makes policy. In presentations, staff are often in the position of explaining to the Board and citizens what we as a locality can and cannot do. Staff do not express personal opinions in this context. Finally, I find it reprehensible that Greg and commenters are making mean-spirited allegations about an intelligent, experienced, educated professional. How any normal citizen would have insight into the hiring of a county employee or the specifics of their performance, I don’t know. Members of county staff are humans like the rest of us. To the extent that any are in the public eye, it is largely due to their dedication to public service, not because they ran for public office knowing that it would put them under the public microscope. Think before you type. If only for selfish reasons; do you really think Neighborhood Services staff will really feel extra motivated to go above and beyond for your complaints once you’ve attacked them?
Just a quick off topic note, WUSA is going to do a news story tonight on a deadly hit and run involving an illegal hispanic with a valid MD license.
Actually, Anonymous, “county staff” is local government speak for bureaucrat…who supposedly is an employee of the local citizens. Those citizens have every right to question that employee’s value and capabilities to perform their job. That you seem to have a problem with that suggests that either you are also one of those bureaucrats and/or work closely with the lady in question.
If Loudoun County and Fairfax County are more effective at enforcing zoning than Prince William County then the question that needs to be asked - is PCE enforcement doing their job? It is a fair question. There are homeowners in PWC who have used their homes as illegal motels. When that happens quality of life diminishes. Neighborhoods get reputations, property values decline and that effects everyone in the County. It is in the best interest of staff to recognize that this is a problem and to actively pursue courses of action to remedy this situation. If the state has already given us tools to combat this, then it needs to be implemented. Evidently both Loudoun County and Fairfax County have publicly stated that they are going to step up zoning enforcement. Let’s see what they do and ask PWC why they are not doing the same.
Wonder what Ms.Casciato would say to having 17 or 18 college frat boys moving in next door.
Furthermore, I think that some of the “staff” are demonstrating a “conflict of interest” based on their personal beliefs (particularly if they are of the same ethnicity as the people they are “investigating”).
Agreed.
As I said before: If Stirrup wants to put his money where his mouth is then he NEEDS to take zoning enforcement/reform as his very own personal pet project - most ricky tic. Action talks, BS walks. PWC citizens need to call him on this issue.
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?),
Isn’t that same reason why if there is a domestic dispute the send out at elast 2 police officers one being a woman, etc?
There was an incident of homless lady and she was of a certain race and the sent out 2 officers one being of the same race. ( may have been a coiencidence but,asked when the call was made to to the police, they asked for a description of the person) I don’t know if it becomes a conflict of interest or standard pracitce?
the send out at least 2 police officers…
I think it just comes down to someone not doing their job rather than overlooking because of belief of race.I could be wrong.Help me out here.
When state law allows a huge number of people to live in a house, zoning has no right to enter a home unless allowed by the resident, and there is no real way to tell relationship of those living in a home, I am surprised there are any resolved issues at all.
The violations must all be over yard and car issues. I sure see no way to enforce anything else.
I would like to see our BOCS lobby the legislators to make the necessary changes at the state level so that we can insist zoning enforcement do its job. State law seems to be a major hurdle with our quality of life issues here in Prince William.
redawn, let’s face it, there are many supporters of illegals and they are at all levels. If they happen to be investigators they might turn a blind eye.
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 13 Dec 2007 at 1:12 pm:
I never turn a “blind eye” while on a “fly by”
If Mr. Horn is punished for this then all of our Politicians that refuse to abide by Article IV section IV of our Constitution against Invasion and fail to enforce our Immigration laws should be punished as well. When this country is experiencing the greatest invasion in world history and our politicians not only refuse to protect the Nation from this invasion but in fact aid, abet and encourage this invasion then they are guilty as well. Houston is an sanctuary city. If the Politicians had obey our Constitution and laws the two illegal aliens would not have been in this country to prey on American citizens and Mr. Horn would not have been forced to chose what action to take. When politician start picking and choosing which parts of our Constitution and Laws they enforce then they are openly encouraging lawless. Illegal Aliens every year kill more American citizens than are killed by terrorist in the last 10 years combined, while raping, and robbing tens of thousands more. Both parties have contributed to this slaughter of our citizens and the impact of millions of uneducated peons and criminals pouring across our open borders. They are destroying our health care system, our schools, our judicial system, our environment, welfare system. adding to energy use, pollution, water use and driving our standard of living down. While driving up our taxes, insurance rates, welfare cost and tax receipts down.
Mexican and Latin American citizens have for hundreds of years lived in a society where corruption, crime, poverty, misery, anti-education and hate for American and the rule law of law is normal. Should anyone be surprised they bring those same values across the border with them? If government refuses to protect its citizens and abide by its own laws and Constitution can citizens be blamed for taking the law into their hands?
I can’t wait until something shiny distracts you guys and you’re interested in some other issue.
Hasn’t anyone noticed that she was there to cut down on violations (her words).
Hasn’t anyone noticed that the county has initiated an amendment to Article X (enforcement) of the County Zoning that will allow the Zoning Enforcement to get a subpoena for “Overcrowding” witnesses (put them under oath).
anonymous said on 13 Dec 2007 at 8:44 pm:
“I can’t wait until something shiny distracts you guys and you’re interested in some other issue.”
That is what you liberals live for right? You want people to get distracted with your smoke and mirror tactics! Well….that just isn’t going to happen. Illegal immigration is our NATION’S number one issue and we will continue to vigorously monitor and resolve this issue. As part of this measure, we need to start identifying people that “aid and abet”.
This seems to be the only open thread where local PWC funding issues are remotely related?
This issue here (lack of or horrible resources) is directly related to the sinking CIP that was presented on Tuesday (no thread) and the NVTA increase (cut from thread) and the likely prospect of more services cuts or tax hike (no thread).
What’s up?
One Voice,
Perhaps Greg will start a thread for the purpose of commenting on PWC funding issues. Obviously you are concerned. Frankly, I would like to hear what you and others have to say on the issue of local funding.
There certainly was enough dooming and glooming on the Jackson Miller thread yesterday about national monetary issues.
Show me the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
~~splash~~
anonymous (12/13 @8:44)
The one shiny thing we are looking for as a distraction is the
zero polulation of illegals in this country!
Great letter! Ms. C. wouldn’t make it through the weekend living in overcrowded conditions. Maybe, she would go out there on the weekend and take care of ALL of the popsicle signs.
The county should be enforcing this law on the weekends. I won’t be holding my breath for that one. Neighborhood Services should be out and about on the weekends, and there are more residents at home them. Hmm, makes to much sense I guess.
Practice what you preach Casciato
LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Potomac News
Saturday, December 15, 2007
Michelle Casciato of the Prince William Neighborhood Services Division believes that 17 or 18 people can safely sleep in a three-bedroom house (460 crowding complaints reported, Dec. 11, Potomac News).
Ms. Casciato was hired by the county in 2005 at a starting salary of $70,203 as a “neighborhood coordinator” to help educate homeowners on how their property should look and how it should not.
Ms. Casciato spends most of her time at Board of County Supervisors meetings reporting on the removal of popsicle signs throughout the county.
In my perspective, Ms. Casciato should open up her personal home to 17 to 18 people she isn’t related to, live with them for six to eight weeks, provide parking for their vehicles on her lawn and invite all of her neighbors and the entire Board of County Supervisors over on a weekend for a weenie roast celebrating diversity and that mental disorder better known as liberalism.
Finally, Ms. Casciato should report to the public at the following Board of County Supervisors meeting on the essence of “safely” living with 17 to 18 people in a dwelling built for much fewer people and explain why her public salary shouldn’t be reduced to zero.
Lafayette, so if I have both my brothers and their families and my mome and dad and my sister and her families over for a weekend holiday get together and they sleep where ever we can find a place for them to sleep for the weekend then I should be penalized. Many know I play the middle of the road here but I will tell you this, the first time a gov’t official comes to my door on a weekend and asks to inspect my house or asks who lives with me, that person better be ready to make a very fast escape from my property. This is the problem inspectors have. There is nothing that says you have to answer any of their questions. In addition, how do you prove whether or not the occupants are related. It is not their responsiblity to prove they are related, it is the governments responsibilty/proof to prove they aren’t. This is still America and you are innocent until proven guilty, I think.
Bayberry….actually….I would think that if a person claims that they are related they would need to provide some sort of documentation to back up their claim. I am not certain a house that has “guests” for only a short time would be an issue. What I look for are those houses that have overcrowding continuously. I also look for cars that change frequently (much like a rotation). This shows patterns which is worthy of a call for inspection.
Bayberry,
Your family visiting for the weekend or holidays is very different from living there for living in crowded conditions by choice for months on in. I also, would bet that your family/guests would not be parking on the lawn front and back, coming and going all hours of the middle of the night, or urinate in the front lawn for the world to see. Maybe, I wrong here, but I doubt it.There’s a big difference. Of course you should NOT be penalized for this. I’m a pretty middle of the road person myself, very openminded, and even more INDEPENDENT.
My point in Zoning needing to have a more flexible schedule it would be easier to talk to the occupants and explain what the problem is other than a written citation, which very well might get ignored. Believe it or not I am VERY AWARE of the fact that local zoning offices are limited by the laws from the state and feds. This is all the more reason concerned citizens need to get involved. Our state leaders must take action to give the localities within the “Old Dominion State” more tools to be effective.
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 15 Dec 2007 at 2:06 pm:
Damn, you beat me to it. I guess I better be more on my toes since your back.
My point about proving family relations is why would it be my responsibility to prove my family is my family? If yoyu are arrested for a crime is it not the governments responsibility to prove you are guilty not yours to prove you are innocent? If the City came to my door and claimed the people living with me are unrelated I would look at them and say “prove it.” Again, this is what the inspectors have to work with and if you think you can do any better maybe you should submit your ideas to them. But to say the people being investiagted have to prove they are related is just plain incorrect. They don’y have to prove anything.
correction, they “don’t” have to prove anything.