Driving liberals, dhimmis and illegal alien apologists absolutely insane since 2005...

What Tolerating Lawlessness Gets You

By Greg L | 16 December 2007 | Crime | 167 Comments

Here’s an interesting anecdote. I have no idea how common this might be, but stuff like this never helps to relieve widely-held concerns that the behavior of some of our (most likely) uninvited guests in this country may be counterproductive to good order in our society:

I witnessed something at the Walmart that is so clearly representative of what’s going on with illegals in this country, with their disrespect for our laws, and the willingness of citizens and business to look the other way. In a drink isle crowded with shoppers, we all watched while a Hispanic guy (complete with t-shirt with the Mexican flag and a tear-drop tattoo by his eye) ripped open a box of bottled waters and took one. He took a swig of water and put the bottle in his pocket. He left the ripped open box on the shelf, and wheeled his cart stuffed with children’s Christmas toys away.

We were all a bit shocked at this bit of blatant thievery. However, I was the only one to report this to the manager. I pointed the man out to him, but the manager could not do anything, since they can only do something if they see it happen in front of their eyes.

If you tolerate lawlessness, you encourage it. All of us end up paying the price for that cowardice.

UPDATE: The Washington Times has a pretty compelling example of this refusal to acknowledge the effects of illegal aliens being present in our communities:

“The fact they are illegal workers isn’t my concern,” [David Thurston, the director of the D.C. Alliance for Immigrant Justice] said. … “These workers here in D.C. are looking for dignity and a place to seek employment. It’s for the benefit of the entire community.”

They don’t care what happens to our communities, just so long as illegal aliens get “dignity and jobs”.  And I’m sorry, it doesn’t benefit the entire community, at all. It destroys it.



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167 Comments

  1. El Guapo said on 16 Dec 2007 at 6:57 am:
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    There are white, black, yellow, red and brown people who steal things from stores. To make a sweeping generalization about an entire group based on the behavior of one is just plain ignorant. You’re really scraping the bottom here.

  2. mnd said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:56 am:
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    Mexico would be a fantastic place were it not for the culture of corruption and lawlessness there.

    When a US Citizen engages in shitty behavior its an aberration. When a citizen of a corrupt, lawless country acts this way I’d label this behavior as “normal”.

    See the difference?

    Culture matters.

  3. Ducky said on 16 Dec 2007 at 9:12 am:
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    (CNN) — A Texas couple charged with killing the little girl known as “Baby Grace” now face capital murder charges, after a Texas grand jury upgraded the charges on Wednesday.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/12/12/baby.grace/index.html?iref=topnews

    vs.

    He took a swig of water and put the bottle in his pocket. He left the ripped open box on the shelf, and wheeled his cart stuffed with children’s Christmas toys away

    Culture matters.

  4. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 9:25 am:
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    Off the thread, but for BVBL users: you must read today’s Outlook in WaPo. Verrrrrrrry interesting about PWC and the Youtube filmers, Annabel Park, Eric Byler, and Jeff Man. Big picture of “the Liberty wall”!

    Front page article “The Right Road to America?” written by Amy Chua, who grew up speaking only Chinese; parents wouldn’t allow her to use English at home. Interesting reading on a rainy day.

  5. Leeroy Jenkins said on 16 Dec 2007 at 9:26 am:
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    To the person who witnessed the theft in Wal-Mart.

    Never underestimate folks ability to deny, mischaracterize, and make the strangest comparisons. What is important in this particular situation is that you saw what happened, you understand how it is indicative of a larger problem. And although I agree that your Wal-Mart shopping buddy is a disgrace….well, it IS wal-mart :) If you don’t want to see this sort of thing, shop at Tyson’s. There you just see them sleeping on the “free furniture”. Could you imagine sitting in those upholstered chairs after these folks that apologists will insist are not the problem?

    Ewww.

  6. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 9:32 am:
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    Oh, I forgot; on page B3 an article headlined: “The NRA’S MAIN TARGET? iTS MEMBERS’ CHECKBOOKS.”

  7. Bl said on 16 Dec 2007 at 9:36 am:
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    Mexican and Latin American citizens have for hundreds of years lived in a society where corruption, crime, poverty, misery, anti-education and hate for American and the rule law of law is normal. Should anyone be surprised they bring those same values across the border with them?

  8. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:05 am:
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    Ducky, we’re personae non grata here. The Texas couple were NOT illegal immigrants, not even Hispanics. Guess Greg felt a rainy Sunday would be the best day to stir up his army about a stolen water bottle. Not that that act was in any way excusable, but worth his whole essay? I think not.

  9. Bridget said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:14 am:
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    Hey Guapo,

    You add nothing but insult to injury. Pouring more salt on the wound, as it were.

    Water boy is your ignorant jackass. (Way to go with the “Hey - look at me! - I’m not just a theif acting with brazen impunity - but a proud Mexican to boot!” international diplomacy 101 there, sparky.)

    Let’s go to Mexico for a moment. Now, imagine some guy wearing an American flag T shirt. He goes into a store. He pulls the water bottle stunt.

    Do the customers and management just shrug it off?

    You don’t like sweeping generalizations about an entire group? How about:

    “Family values don’t stop at the Rio Grande”

    “They only come here to work.”

    Pure propaganda … to distract us from this:

    http://www.citizentribune.com/news/view_sections.asp?idcategory=9&idarticle=7876

    Identity theft. Job theft. Stealing across the border by the millions. Using conterfiet documents to commit fraud. Flooding into American built hospitals and schools … let Americans cover the cost. Who cares about the collateral damage. Way beyond an isolated petty theft.

  10. freedom said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:32 am:
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    There’s no hope…Ducky, Krusty, El Guapo and a few others have quite unfortunately not experienced the benefits that this country has to offer…the opportunity has been there for them, but for some reason they just haven’t achieved. Why, I have no idea…but they’re jealous of the achievers, filled with hate, and wish to see America become another third world country of the Americas.

    I no longer address their innane comments, they’re simply not worth my time. :(

  11. anonymoustoo said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:37 am:
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    Isn’t this the type of anecdotal evidence Linda Chavez faulted PWC for using as the basis for passage of the resolution?

    BTW, why didn’t the complainant address the water swiper since by the time the complaint reaches the store manager, it will be one person’s word against another’s?

  12. UnMasMexican said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:40 am:
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    i HAD to share this story with you, Greg, after reading your post. A few weeks ago when I dropped off some friends at a Seven Eleven–yes, looking for work, before you ask…I went inside to pick up some of the Hispanic pastry stuff they now sell and I witnessed something shocking.

    The Indian gentelman working at the country yelled at two white teenage boys for stealing and they just laughed and ran out of the store. I was left horrified. Hardworking immigrants such as myself pay more when spoiled non-immigrant teenagers steal from store. Hardworking immigrants run these Seven Eleven franchises and are hurt by these actions. Acquaintances and friends I have who work day labor jobs and are picked up at these locales would have to find new places to look for work when this stealing by these boys drives the immigrant-owned franchises out of buisness.

    Do i think all non-immigrants steal? Probably not but many American teens steal routinelty–this is not a Mexican thing….and you have no idea if this man is legal or not….MORE OF GREG’S RACISM!!! ADMIT IT NOW AND HAVE THE CAJONES TO LEAVE THIS POST UP!

  13. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:41 am:
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    freedom said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:32 am:
    I no longer address their innane comments, they’re simply not worth my time.

    I love my IGNORE BUTTON. I usually have it ACTIVATED on at least one person a day. :)

  14. Leeroy Jenkins said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:51 am:
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    Hmmm, the distiguished gentleman in wal-mart had a basket full of Christmas toys….safe to assume he’s a adult? (the illegal immigrant apologists would have us believe he was in fact Santa Claus). The kids in the 7-11 are, quite obviously kids. Now for the grand prize, can you figure out the difference? The parents of the brats in 7-11 should be made aware of what their kids were doing, and if they don’t punish those kids, that’s part of the biggest problem with America. For Mr. Mexican Tshirt at Wal-Mart, it’s too late, he’s already grown up (physiologically). He’ll more than likely pass his respect for common decency on to his kids (and I won’t go there)

  15. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:53 am:
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    unmas….yes those teenagers were wrong (no matter who they are). What you fail to realize is:
    1. Illegal aliens are criminals from the beginning - forge documents, steal and use identities of others (ruining legal resident’s credit), steal benefits only meant for legal citizens (foodstamps, medical care, subsidized housing, etc.)…and worst of all…..they continue to do these things in order to unlawfully reside here.
    2. Legal residents who aid and abet are criminals too! They are FELONS!
    So unmas….why don’t you get your facts straight!
    3. Both illegal aliens and legal residents (who aid and abet) are slapping their own countrymen (who came here legally and want to be law abiding Americans) in the face. What a disgrace you are to your own people!

  16. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:00 am:
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    It’s about the RULE OF LAW! NOT RACE!
    The reality is criminals come in all shapes and sizes, color, religious groups, ethnic backgrounds, nationality etc. The are GOOD and BAD amongst all of the above.

  17. UnMasMexican said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:01 am:
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    Patriot:
    1. you and greg have no idea if this assumed mexican immigrant was illegal or not…or even mexican…
    2. what facts??
    3. i am law abiding..stealing is wrong…i just say greg let his racism slip here….

    leroy jenkins: good point about kids and adults. sad thing is these kids’ parents didnt teach them that stealing is wrong and against god…and they will be adults who end up like the mexican shirt guy….

    stealing is wrong and greg is racist on this one

  18. Anonymous said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:02 am:
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    Man builds boarders not god

  19. TDB said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:03 am:
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    How about the tear-drop tatoo? Is that indicative of being in a gang? I believe it has all to do with having a f-you attitude. Here I am…what are you going to do about it? NOTHING!!!

  20. monticup said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:04 am:
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    Unmasmexican–That’s exactly our point! Thank you. The thieves are influenced by the lawlessness they observe all around them. This is just what we citizens are appalled by and exactly what illegal aliens bring to our country. Mexico is a wealthy country in terms of natural resources. Yet they dump their social problems on their northern neighbor. Why can’t Mexicans make something of their country? I think we all know the answer.

    There is a saying–”when life gives you lemons, make lemonade” In Mexico and Central America, life has given them lemonade and they go ahead and make lemons. Then they come here and bring their lawless ways.

  21. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:04 am:
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    Who cares unmas….the facts I posted above! You cannot refute them!

  22. monticup said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:05 am:
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    Unmasmexican–you don’t REALLY believe stealing is wrong, do you? Nothing you have written in the past would indicate that.

  23. UnMasMexican said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:09 am:
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    Patriot, you offer no “facts.” I love days like this when you all attack what you think is mexican culture and lawlessness and ignore so much in this country.

    mexicans are a peaceloving gentle religious people with strong family values. thats why they come here, for their families.

    today you all let your racism show when you attacked mexican culture–this had nothing to do w/ immigrations….

    now how many of u have the honesty and guts to simply say it:

    “i dislike mexicans.” go, on say it. or are tyou too cowardly patriot??

  24. UnMasMexican said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:11 am:
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    monticup: i have NEVER said stealing was right….find me proof i have or else apologize for your slander!!

  25. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:12 am:
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    unmas…I guess you did not pass your ESOL test then? I even used numbers for each of my points (which are facts).

  26. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:13 am:
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    unmas….since you need help…here are the “facts” once again:
    1. Illegal aliens are criminals from the beginning - forge documents, steal and use identities of others (ruining legal resident’s credit), steal benefits only meant for legal citizens (foodstamps, medical care, subsidized housing, etc.)…and worst of all…..they continue to do these things in order to unlawfully reside here.
    2. Legal residents who aid and abet are criminals too! They are FELONS!
    So unmas….why don’t you get your facts straight!
    3. Both illegal aliens and legal residents (who aid and abet) are slapping their own countrymen (who came here legally and want to be law abiding Americans) in the face. What a disgrace you are to your own people!

  27. UnMasMexican said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:20 am:
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    HHAHAHA no son factas!!

    1. do you really think all undocumented immigrants are identity thieves? most certainly do not claim foodstamps –natives do. fearmongerer!
    2. what facts?? immigration laws in this country are outdated–borders are becoming irrelevant. accept this and stp being scared of it. if you had an education maybe you wouldnt be worried about competition!
    3. How am i a disgrace? you know nothing about me or my immigration status.

    you are a racist fool who hides behind a name like “patriot” and thinks only white rednecks like yourself are the true americans…and today you all showed your racism when you attacked mexican culture.

    how long before these posts get deleted because you people hate when people call you out for your racist garbage?

    we are prince william county and we are staying. live with us, not against us.

    viva la raza en los estados unidos y god bless all americans–even u, patriot!

  28. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:23 am:
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    Lafayette - ignore button. My first entry was about the Outlook article in today’s Washington Post. For some reason I felt contributors to this blog would be interested since it has to do with PWC and you DID run part of the Youtube strip here.

    freedom - Talk about inane comments! Me, hate-filled, non-achiever who wants America to become a third world country!

    In this case, all I wanted was for you guys to READ THE PAPER, for pete’s sake, but I guess the stolen water bottle is much more interesting and important. Greg know which buttons to push, that’s for sure!

  29. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:29 am:
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    unmas….uh….why don’t you do your research. You sound like a fool. In fact, if you are (or were) an illegal alien you know this all is true. Worse….if you “aid and abet” (which you probably do) you are a FELON! Oh, and don’t forget about the real shameful item #3…you cannot get around that fact either no matter how much you scream your nonsense.

  30. Vigilant1 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:30 am:
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    You should write to Wal-mart hqs and inform them of the situation you witnessed, giving the store location and the person you spoke to who did nothing. Ask them if that is their policy to ignore reports of theft because an employee didn’t witness the theft.

  31. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:32 am:
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    Krusty,
    I was not speaking of you or anyone else today. My IGNORE BUTTON is idle right now. :)
    I’ve not gotten a chance to read that article yet. I’m still in process of reading about 20 very important articles, and that is one of them.
    Not looking to fuss with you Youtube strip did I run? Can you show me the link or something.

  32. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:34 am:
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    unmas…furthermore…..I guess you really need to go back to your ESOL classes so that you can learn English all over again. In addition, I highly recommend that you go back to your civics classes too! If you have read my posts it is not the color of one’s skin that makes someone a true American. A true American is as follows:
    1. Loyal to only our country and flag (the U.S. and U.S. flag).
    2. Speak English (this is what unites all of us no matter where we are from). This has been our common language from our country’s beginning.
    3. Subscribe to the “melting pot” concept. This means that you do not place your country of origin/culture at a higher priority than the culture/ideas/traditions of America. This means that you get no special treatment or policies that favor one group of people over another. This means that all policies are for the good of all people (not a particular group of people based on race/ethnicity/culture, etc.).

  33. 999 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:36 am:
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    Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:05 am:
    I think not.

    There you go again crusty. Thinking again.

  34. Bridget said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:40 am:
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    Holy crap. UMM is about to blow. Hit the deck!

  35. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:41 am:
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    unmas….why don’t you be a good upstanding resident and join “You Don’t Speak for Me”. What do you think? http://www.dontspeakforme.org/
    I even provided the link for you. They are on our side!

  36. anonymoustoo said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:42 am:
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    Vigilant1, do you expect Wal-mart to get involved in a lawsuit over a $1 bottle of water? It would be a “he said/she said” situation unless the person reporting happened to be willing to go to court. Even then, I’d bet Wal-Mart wouldn’t be willing .

    Gotta keep the base angry and fearful until the next election…

  37. Dolph said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:43 am:
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    Krusty,

    Thanks, and I will read the articles once they make it up to the house. My resident paper boy is a little slow this morning.

    UMM,

    I like many Mexicans. I like many Latinos from other countries. There are some I could throw under the bus, along with a lot of whites and blacks I want to throw under there. Thieves and jerks come in many different packages.

    General Statement: I think it is sad that so many people feel exchanges like these on this thread are appropriate in a civilized society. Shudder! I am curious as to how many of these exchanges would be said to someone’s face.

  38. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:49 am:
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    Lafayette - Thanks! You know, I have NO idea of how to go back and find anything past. But I know that the strip was shown either shortly before or shortly after the big meeting that Corey Stewart called. Annabel was mentioned several times. She had asked for an interview with Greg or a HSM representative. They almost bit, but found out that she was in the “enemy court”. That’s my recollection, for what it’s worth.

  39. mnd said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:49 am:
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    “viva la raza” and WE’RE the “redneck racists”?

    lol.

  40. 999 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:52 am:
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    TDB said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:03 am:
    How about the tear-drop tatoo? Is that indicative of being in a gang? I believe it has all to do with having a f-you attitude. Here I am…what are you going to do about it? NOTHING!!!

    The tradition of coded tattoos is still prevalent, though the meaning of the various tattoos changes with the passage of time and region. Generally, coded tattoos are associated with prison and gangs. Let’s explore the meaning of some of these coded symbols.

    Tear drop tattoos

    The teardrop tattoo is typically a prison tattoo. Traditionally placed next to the eye, either left or right, this striking mark makes its wearer appear to be permanently crying.

    While many prison tattoos are ethnicity specific, the teardrop is seen equally across the board.

    Originally, in North America, the teardrop meant that the wearer had committed at least one murder. In some places, it meant that the wearer had committed a murder in jail. This tattoo then had the power to warn away other convicts, and establish an image for the wearer, of self-defense that is imperative in the prison system.

    This “water boy” sounds like a wannabe!

  41. Vigilant1 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:58 am:
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    anonymoustoo said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:42 am:
    Vigilant1, do you expect Wal-mart to get involved in a lawsuit over a $1 bottle of water? It would be a “he said/she said” situation unless the person reporting happened to be willing to go to court. Even then, I’d bet Wal-Mart wouldn’t be willing .

    No I wouldn’t expect them to get involved but that dollar bottle of water times a hundred or a thousand costs EVERYONE sho shops at Wal-mart. Do you think Wal-mart just ignores petty theft? They should be made aware that the theft was reported and that no one (store manager) cared. Just put a sign up that if you are hungry, thirsty or need a new TV set, THO HELP YOURSELF. No one will stop you.

  42. Vigilant1 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 12:10 pm:
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    corr -

    Just put a sign up that if you are hungry, thirsty or need a new TV set, to HELP YOURSELF. No one will stop you.

  43. redawn said on 16 Dec 2007 at 12:22 pm:
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    Even if it the manager reported the water bottle incident to the police, what would happen if this guy showed up on the scene? ( a bit of humor this morning.It’s too funny not share. Okay, going back ON topic)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVWmUt-bT3Y

  44. freedom said on 16 Dec 2007 at 12:23 pm:
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    Layfayette, then you and I share the same “button.” :) :)

  45. monticup said on 16 Dec 2007 at 12:26 pm:
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    Scratch the surface of Unmas’s rants and look what bile comes out. He has no interest in the USA except as a ATM machine.

  46. Walmart Shopper said on 16 Dec 2007 at 12:39 pm:
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    I am the Walmart shopper who sent this to Greg and a few other folks.

    Some posters asked why I didn’t say something to stop the thief. At first, I thought this guy was just getting himself a water, and then he was going to put the whole box in his cart.

    When he walked off, I didn’t stop him because I was afraid. I am a woman, and the thief was a big guy, who had a tear-drop tattoo. Gang members often wear that tattoo to demonstrate that they’ve killed someone in the past.

    At this point, I should note that there were men who watched this guy steal and didn’t say anything. After the guy stole the water and left the isle, the other shoppers and I were all looking at each other. I said, “I’m going to go report this guy.” One of the other shoppers said, “Don’t do it, that guy could do something.”

    As for the posters who said, “It was only a water.” You clearly don’t get it.

  47. Ducky said on 16 Dec 2007 at 12:46 pm:
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    Greg wrote this about you WalMart shopper;

    If you tolerate lawlessness, you encourage it. All of us end up paying the price for that cowardice.

    You gonna take that?

  48. josh said on 16 Dec 2007 at 12:52 pm:
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    unmas,

    I was a direct victim of an illegal immigrant using my SSN. So dont go there, they do use fake documentation and they do make up SSN’s not all of them but certainly enough to make it a pretty big issue. I dont feel sorry for the one that used mine, he got arrested and deported along with many other of his little buddies at the swift meat packing plant awhile back.

    Oh…and what about that piece of trash and model example of morality Elvira Arellano? She did the same thing and them some….

    Illegals are breaking they law just by nature of being here, and the reason they are still here is that lawless idiots like you turn a blind eye.

    as for the walmart issue, I would have confronted the person and/or yelled “hey thief” a few times. I would have embarrased him enough to leave the store without anything. Public humiliation works wonders when others refuse to do their job.

  49. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:01 pm:
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    UMM
    Your first mistake is “undcocumented immigrants”. The CORRECT term is ILLEGAL ALIENS. Yes, they can get foodstamps, etc. there’s this little thing called IDENTITY THEFT.
    There have even been ID rings busted right here in PWC, and one just about a mile from here. My daughter and witnessed this bust as we were in Festival Shopping center. This involved the NOVA Gang Task force. If you have a “decent” fraudulant document such as a social security card, birth certificate,etc..
    Then yes they could probably get many free services. Take a look this involving Pilgrim’s Pride. Didn’t I read something about Linda Chavez and Pilgrim’s Pride in the last day or two.
    ************
    24 people arrested in ID theft
    By: Lynn Larowe - Texarkana Gazette - Published: 12/14/2007

    Federal authorities in the Eastern District of Texas have arrested 24 people in connection with alleged identity theft and immigration violations.

    Twenty-one of those were employees of Pilgrim’s Pride in Northeast Texas.

    “The consequences of identity theft go far beyond the loss of money or property and can be just as devastating to American consumers and businesses as any violent crime,” said U.S. Attorney John L. Ratcliffe in a press released issued Wednesday. “The prosecution of individuals engaged in identity theft will therefore remain one of our highest priorities.”

    All but two of the 24 arrested were apprehended in Titus County.

    Cecilia Perez-Lazaro and Jose Arellano-Vasquez were arrested in Camp County. All were taken before Magistrate Judge Caroline Craven in Texarkana, Texas, for initial appearances Tuesday and Wednesday.

    Social Security cards and birth certificates necessary to legally get a job in the United States were being sold by Daniel Totosaus-Rodriguez and Marcos Garcia to illegal aliens, according to federal officials.

    The documents reportedly came from a variety of sources, including som…

  50. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:03 pm:
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    Josh,
    Don’t make UMM’S mistake. The are ILLEGAL ALIENS!!!
    You’re sounding like the MJM/Potomac news. :)

  51. UnMasMexican said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:19 pm:
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    Laws passed by hate and fear…the American economy needs these UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS!!!

  52. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:28 pm:
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    UMM
    You like facts visit this ICE sight. Please, notice they speak of ILLEGAL ALIENS on that particular page I linked.
    http://www.ice.gov/pi/topics/immref/index.htm
    freedom,
    It’s looking like the “button” might go from idle to ACTIVATED.
    :)

  53. Dolph said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:32 pm:
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    Defending Josh here…..I also say ‘illegal immigrant’ and will continue to do so. Some of us use the language that our environment mandates.

    If you work in an environment where you work daily with people from different ethnicities, it is a good idea to use the terms everyone is comfortable with. Anyone who wants to question my stridency on this issue may email me. I will explain it privately.

  54. Ducky said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:34 pm:
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    FWIW, I agree with Josh, if this happened the way it was described, one of the men present should have said something.

    And I do believe Greg owes this woman, WalMart shopper, an apolgy for calling her a coward.

    And I don’t believe this thief represents Latinos anymore than Baby Grace’s parents represent Texans, or white people, or whatever.

  55. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:38 pm:
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    Dolph,
    I know your stance. I was give Josh some grief. Good grief woman. None the less your point is very well taken.

  56. starryflights said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:40 pm:
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    I have to wonder if the response from the Walmart manager would have been the same, had this been a high ticket item. A little off topic here, but I would like to ask the poster that had his/her SS# used by an illegal alien, how did you report it and what happened? I know someone that happened to run across another name associated with their SS#. The person called authorities and they said they could do nothing, unless this person used the SS# to take out a loan, etc. So, as far as this person knows, this person with a Hispanic name is still using the SS#.

  57. 999 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:47 pm:
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    anonymoustoo said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:37 am:
    Isn’t this the type of anecdotal evidence Linda Chavez faulted PWC for using as the basis for passage of the resolution?

    BTW, why didn’t the complainant address the water swiper since by the time the complaint reaches the store manager, it will be one person’s word against another’s?

    He had the evidence in his pocket, didn’t he?

  58. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ducky said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:34 pm:
    FWIW, I agree with Josh, if this happened the way it was described, one of the men present should have said something.

    Males, females, children, teens, and seniors anyone who say should’ve said something. IMHO. Good citizens must get invlolved. I don’t care if it was a bottle of water. The costs of stolen goods are most certainly passed on to those of honest paying customers.

  59. Bridget said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:48 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ducky,

    Could Greg have been referring to the other witnesse as well as the manager?

    Not to mention a general reminder to the BVBL readership that turning a blind eye and remaining silent gets us nowhere.

    The lady in walmart took appropriate action. And while I might have been inclined to do a what josh mentioned, yell out “theif!” … with children or elders in tow, or in the aisle, I might have not yelled out anything at all. Best not to put yourself or others in a potentially compromising position.

    I could share some pretty hair raising stories about confronting similarly antisocial behaviour head on … but the anecdote police would probably arrive.

  60. Ducky said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:52 pm:
    Flag comment

    I thought ten thousand swords must have leaped from their scabbards to avenge even a look that threatened her with insult. But the age of chivalry is gone.

    Edmund Burke
    Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 - 1797)

  61. Dolph said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Well, BVBL being the last bastion of PC, I wanted to make certain *I* didn’t receive the next admonition. [coughsnickerchoke] grin!

    ~~splash~~

  62. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    Bridget,
    I don’t know about the yelling part myself. However, anyone that witnessed this sure could’ve told the first employee they saw, and to get a manager.
    I think all have these stories. The “Anecdote Police” may just very well come out in full force. :)

  63. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:58 pm:
    Flag comment

    **off topic**
    The Christmas Parade is airing now on Channel 2.
    El Diabilo should be coming up soon. Stay tuned…

  64. Clairese Lippincott said on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:04 pm:
    Flag comment

    WHAT are any of you doing, shopping at Wal-Mart? You know that nearly every cent you spend there goes to support COMMUNIST CHINA.

    I don’t believe the made-up story about the kids in the 7/11. I do believe the story about the beaner in the Wal-Mart. I guess it never occurred to you to say something to that dirtbag when he vandalized and stole from the store. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Next time at least say something. But stay out of the friggin Wal-Mart, that company is killing America from within.

    Fools! Boycott Wal-Mart and buy American! In a healthy U.S. economy, we will not be too worried about immigrants because there will be plenty to go around. RonPaul2008.com

  65. MP Resident said on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    Taking back what you believe to be rightfully yours is not stealing.

  66. MP Resident said on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    To clarify–it’s not stealing to the person who think they’re taking back what is rightfully theirs.

    Bear that in mind when people like UMM say they think stealing is wrong. Sure they do. Just about everyone does. But some justify their stealing in a way that allows them to believe it’s not really stealing.

  67. Dolph said on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    I am just positive that Ron Paul wants the term ‘beaner’ attributed to his website. NOT1

    Let’s see…in your world Clairese, ‘beaners’ steal and teenagers don’t? OK.

    Your world is quite different from mine. In my world we don’t come onto blog as a guest and use the term ‘beaner’ to designate an ethnic group.

    Poof!

    Return to your own world.

  68. anon said on 16 Dec 2007 at 2:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    The teardrop tattoo is more prevalent in hispanic prisoner culture than black or white.

    It does signify murder, but there is some difference between a filled in tear drop and an outlined tear drop.
    The teardrop is very recognizable to other hispanics and is used a way to instill fear.

    I used to see the teardrop in LA and parts of southern Texas but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it this far east. This guy was bad news…the Wal Mart guy was probably even afraid.

    Wonder how he got the money to pay for the toys?

  69. josh said on 16 Dec 2007 at 3:05 pm:
    Flag comment

    for the poster asking about my SSN:

    The swift meat packing company got raided by ice and my SSN turned up. They then ran the SSN and found out I worked for the government. I also have my background checked regularly for my job and they found the issue as well…The last name obviously didnt match. My work took care of everything from there and kept me updated on the progress of the case.

    I wasnt the only person that got hit by this, as far as I know everyone who was affected was notified. I recommend checking your SSN statements every year to see if your earnings change or if someone is trying to claim your benefits. If your a victim of SSN fraud in some cases you can even get your SSN changed but it’s hard, about the only fullproof way to do so is get into the witness protection program.

    j

  70. Bridget said on 16 Dec 2007 at 3:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    Lafayette,

    Absolutely. Grab the attention of the staff. MOST stores, large or small, are very appreciative when you alert them to this or any other problem. And many of the larger stores have survailance cameras. There is a good chance this guy is on film. Shoplifting is a crime, and having worked in retail, I know that to a security person, petty thefts as described above are sometimes trial runs to test any given stores security system.

    Not only did this guy have a bottle in his pocket, but he left an opened, unsalable package behind as further evidence.

    Anecdote Police be damned….

    While standing in line at a local Mini-mart/gas station, the two guys ahead of me, who had purchased lotto scratch tickets and come up loosers, started demanding their money back from the clerk.

    She, a diminutive asian lady, very calmly and politely tried to explain the concept of lotto tickets. No refund.

    The two guys got louder and more argumentative … and the poor lady could tell they would not take no for an answer. She is at the point of begging them to just go home. All of a sudden , one of the guys lunged at her, yelling something in Spanish. She darted back , but the lunger ended up sprawled across the counter.

    Now, keep in mind that these two guys were drunk as could be, and not much taller than the clerk.

    I reached out and grabbed the sprawled guy by the back of his jacket, pulled him off the counter and said something utterly brilliant like “Stop trying to cheat!” in as loud a voice as I could. He hit the floor running, and he and his pal were out the door in a flash.

    I payed for my gas, and walked out to a car filled with six hulking teens. Not assured that the clerk would call the police, I rang their non emergency number to describe what had occured, and to request that they do a drive by in case the two drunks returned. Yes, the officer chided me for putting myself in harms way, but it felt like the right thing to do.

    ———————————————————————————–

    Merry Christmas, UnMasMexican:

    http://www.vdare.com/collins/071214_rhetoric.htm

    http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/illegals.htm

    http://www.theamericanresistance.com/articles/art2004jan04.html

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_immigrants_economy.html

    http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b30c0535a05.htm

  71. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 3:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    Bridget,
    Thanks for the story. The “Ancedote Police” be damned, in deed.
    I had a 7-11 manager show me his security recording of a drunk joker whipping out a knife and lunging over the counter for 59 cents. What the hell is wrong with some people? ;)

  72. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 3:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Corr
    The “ANECDOTE Police” be damned..

  73. Clean it up in '07 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 4:02 pm:
    Flag comment

    To you MORONS who inject RACISM into every discussion about illegal immigration,…..you make me sick. This is what creates the environment where there are so many people that think the laws do not apply to them.

    The illegal immigration debate is quite the OPPOSITE of racism. This is a debate on how best to treat ALL people as equals under the law. Equality is the basis of a free society and must be preserved in this great country.

    Why can’t that person in the WalMart be treated EQUALLY as anyone else who did such a thing who just happens to be Caucasian? The only difference here is that many illegals have learned very well from the liberal illegal alien apologists who say “just scream racism” if anyone questions you while you are grabbing whatever can for free.

    When you MORONS inject RACISM into every discussion about illegal immigration you perpetuate this dangerous trend and enable those that feel “entitlement” without payment, and further, you insult those in this country who truly DID have to deal with very real racism and endured the painful fight for equality in their lives, all while working hard and playing by the rules.

    Enforcing laws for citizens and illegal aliens alike is EQUALITY and justice for all….regardless of the color of one’s skin or the country of their origin. This is the very basis of the illegal immigration debate and unfortunately this very simple point gets lost in the babble and hysteria.

  74. Bridget said on 16 Dec 2007 at 4:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ancedote?

    We don’t need no ancedotes.

    We don’t need to show you no stinkin’ ancedotes.

    Ancedotes are for dilettantes!

    Your welcome, Laf, and thank you for all that you do. Glad to see (as per another thread) you and Dolph buddy up. You two girls stay safe out there.

  75. Anonymous said on 16 Dec 2007 at 5:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    999 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 1:47 pm:
    He had the evidence in his pocket, didn’t he?

    Maybe he was just happy to see everyone.

  76. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 5:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    Bridget - Six hulking teenagers in your car?!! Would that be considered overcrowding:)

  77. Bridget said on 16 Dec 2007 at 5:54 pm:
    Flag comment

    Not hardly if it’s a station wagon with a pop-up seat in the rear.

    Maybe you can nail me on the six unrelated teenagers charge, Krust.

    Catch me if you can. ;O

  78. anonymoustoo said on 16 Dec 2007 at 6:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ancedote? Is that like”Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey”?

  79. Vigilant1 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 6:37 pm:
    Flag comment

    This is what tolerating lawlessness gets you. Glad to see sheriff Joe is still on the job for truth, justice and the American way!

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1209pruitts1209.html?&wired

  80. Vigilant1 said on 16 Dec 2007 at 6:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    More of what tolerating lawlessness gets you. The photos contained in the article show the clean-cut individuals that are inhabiting our cities and neighborhoods. Remember though, they only come here to work and provide for their families.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071216/D8TIN2000.html

  81. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 6:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    Vigilant1,
    Thank you for both links.
    1)I sure wish we had our very own Sheriff Joe here in PWC.
    2)I like these their names.. “Phsycho” and “Pinky”. I’m glad they are in prison or they might try to make it to the Woodbridge district before Hila’s gone, and some those tatoos removed. I think there are a couple of others who’d donate some of their funds for it too. Give me a break.
    We must keep rolling up the “red carpet” that welcomes the illegals here in the first place.

  82. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 7:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    Listen to some of these staggering numbers.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u05zH__XPxo

  83. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1940225/posts
    “Electrolux released the following statement: “Electrolux does not tolerate or condone the use of false documentation in attempting to establish work eligibility.”

    We need to start seeing this activity in our local area soon! Let us keep pressing the issue until it happens!

  84. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    Additionally, I think we need to get tougher on the legal residents who “aid and abet”. I think that anyone who is found aiding and abetting should lose their houses, cars, etc.. Much like the drug dealers….their stuff should be impounded and sold in auction.

  85. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Congress has slashed $3Billion from Border Funds. We need to sign this petion NOW, and forward it to all you know.
    FYI-48,391 have signed since 12/14/07.
    http://www.reformus.org/

  86. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:13 pm:
    I could help but notice more Identity trouble. This really needs to be cracked down on too.
    Earlier this week, federal Agents arrested two people, and charged them with making and selling fake IDs in Robertson County.

  87. freedom said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:38 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ignore button “off”…

    Krusty, I wasn’t talking about your post or the flippin’ newspaper article…I was only talking about how you and others like you, who for some reasoning that you have, just haven’t been given a “fair shake” in this country…or at least, not what you perceive to be your share of OUR shake. That’s all; what I was talking about had not a whit to do with a water bottle, and not a whit to do with your newspaper article, but all to do with how you have obviously been so abused and taken advantage of over the years…I honestly pity you and wish life in this country would have treated you better.

    Ignore button back “ON” [It works Lafayette…:) :)]

  88. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    freedom,
    Ain’t it GREAT! Just like your name. :)

  89. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Vigilante1 - FYI, the article was written in Chimaltenango, GUATEMALA! On the lighter side; with faces like those, you’d have no problem recognize’m on the street.

    The Patriot, What do you suggest one should do with those evil aiders and abettors after they lose their houses, cars, etc.? Would they be taken care of by the government? (your tax money at work). They couldn’t be removed from the country if they are natives or legal immigrants, and I can’t imagine that you would like to see them and their families sleeping in public parks, warming up in public libraries, washing up in public rest rooms, etc. Without homes and transportation they wouldn’t be able to go to work. Oh, I forgot, of course they would lose their jobs too, which means they wouldn’t have to pay any taxes. Great for the economy, definitely!

    Probably many of the clergy would be included in the aiding group, don’t you think?

    You really do have a dream, don’t you?

  90. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:51 pm:
    Flag comment

    Krusty, actually since they are felons they should be jailed. Once out they can start their new life on their own! Now on to more important topics than responding to Krusty’s ridiculous nonsense:
    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7708225
    I guess the guy in this article was just seeking a better life!

  91. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 8:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    If clergy know that they are illegal….yes….they would be aiding and abetting.

  92. Krusty said on 16 Dec 2007 at 9:08 pm:
    Flag comment

    freedom: ARRRRG! You must suffering from acid reflux. Try some of those purple pills!

    I don’t understand why you think I’ve been abused and taken advantage of . Have you seen me complain? I had a wonderful husband (married almost 50 yrs when he died), I have children and Gkids, live comfortably, love my neighbors, do volunteer work and, believe it or not, quite a few people think I’m actually a NICE person. And I wouldn’t want to live in any other country. I love this country. I’ve been given more than a fair shake, and I’m totally satisfied with my life, so quit worrying about me. I want others to have a good life too. Maybe that’s the difference between us!

  93. Lafayette(Mistletoe for Dec.) said on 16 Dec 2007 at 9:10 pm:
    Flag comment

    It sure sounds like Councilwoman Leece has got the right attitude…Councilwoman Wendy Leece said it’s always good when the city’s resources are used to defend the law.
    “This is just making the public safer by upholding the law,” Leece said.
    ICE finds 500 are illegal
    Year’s results viewed as indication program was correct course of action; officials stress the agent, police work separately.
    http://www.dailypilot.com/articles/2007/12/14/publicsafety/dpt-icestats14.txt

  94. Anonymous said on 16 Dec 2007 at 10:21 pm:
    Flag comment

    Walmart Shopper - You are exactly “what lawlessness gets you.” I have reported criminal activity by someone bigger, scary, and of the opposite gender to the manager at the Walmart on Liberia. I reported the situation, offered my contact info, and asked for an escort to my car after my sale was run up. The manager and another male employee saw me to my car and I left. I didn’t get a call back and I am not sure what happened after I left, but at least I took it to the manager.

    I know you were scared - so was I. But the fact that there was more than one of you witnessing a theft and not a single person said anything is sad.

  95. Greg L said on 16 Dec 2007 at 11:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    Some of you are missing the point here. When GOVERNMENT tolerates lawlessness, it creates a culture that promotes it. Are we to expect every single citizen to stand up and do the job of trying to ensure that the rule of law is respected when the government will not? Absolutely not. Some with the ability to do so certainly will and should, but no one should ever feel at fault because their five foot four frame is remarkably less durable and suited to handle abuse than the full weight and awesome power of state or local government.

    Some have the ability which would allow themselves to risk a confrontation with an apparent gang-banger. Most do not. There’s no dishonor in making a well-reasoned decision that engaging is unwise.

  96. Anonymous said on 17 Dec 2007 at 6:24 am:
    Flag comment

    “Are we to expect every single citizen to stand up and do the job of trying to ensure that the rule of law is respected when the government will not?”

    Isn’t that what this blog is about, Greg?

  97. Bridget said on 17 Dec 2007 at 7:10 am:
    Flag comment

    Krusty states: “I want others to have a good life too” Who is paying for your Lady Bountiful Nobles Oblige? And what, dear Krusy, will you do when the cannibals arrive?

    Those in search of that “better life” are too often willing to inflict a great deal of harm in that quest …

    http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/14/good-samaritan-bad-samaritan/

    http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071214/NEWS/71214028

    http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071214/NEWS/71214028

    http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/index.html

    http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/FamilyValuesLink.html

    http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-text/multiculturalism-fraud.html

  98. jfk said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:04 am:
    Flag comment

    I’ll share another anecdote, and offer it as caveat emptor to all. While shopping at the Giant in Wellington a couple of weeks ago, I noticed a couple in the ketchup/barbecue sauce section opening the lids from the containers and smelling the sauces (speaking in spanish). They then put the containers back on the shelf and walked off. Initially I just kept shopping, shaking my head in disgust. Then, I decided that wasn’t the right thing to do. I went to find the manager, but the couple had apparently left the store. The manager was not available.

    Since then, I have started looking at the things I buy more carefully. I have returned some items, including milk, that had been opened.

    The moral of the story is to look at your items prior to purchase and make sure they have not been opened or tampered with. And I KNOW that all hispanics don’t do this, so spare us the dumb comments (UMM, Guapo, Krusty, et.al).

  99. jfk said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:19 am:
    Flag comment

    Sorry Krusty. I meant to say Ducky.

  100. justice said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:21 am:
    Flag comment

    UN MAS MEX….TU no tienes cojones. PLEASE answer these questions: WHY don’t you and your amigos go BACK to Mexico and fight to FIX your blasted country? Are you ASHAMED of your country? Are you LAZY? Are you a COWARD? Are you a fugitive from Mexico? Do you just want to be aPARASITE on America?

  101. freedom said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:22 am:
    Flag comment

    Well, it applies to all of ‘em, jfk…:)

  102. Patty said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:30 am:
    Flag comment

    For those of you who witness a crime at a retail store, you should not confront the perpetrator unless you are a police officer. Many stores have lost prevention personnel who can detain a person. If any of you see someone committing a crime in a store please report it to store employees. Ask to speak to the manager on duty. They will call the police. Your identity will not be revealed to the perpetrator. So do not be afraid. The worst thing to do is do nothing because the criminals will know they can get away with it and will continue to do it. Store personnel are trained for dealing with these situations so please report them when you see them.

  103. jfk said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:40 am:
    Flag comment

    Freedom, I could name a lot of people, mammals or otherwise. Just trying to keep the childish back and forth down to a minimum.

  104. monticup said on 17 Dec 2007 at 11:37 am:
    Flag comment

    I was in a Giant when I saw a little illegal alien girl pounding on the watermelon that was cut in half and wrapped with plastic wrap. I told her to leave the merchandise alone and her mother swooped in from nowhere and got in my face screaming. I told the mother to keep her children under control–there were 3 of them running around the produce section like it was a playground. Next time I will go straight to the manager.

    These illegals come from countries where there is no respect for private property. If they need something–they simply take it. Are they educable?
    I don’t know.

  105. Rick Bentley said on 17 Dec 2007 at 11:52 am:
    Flag comment

    Well let’s embrace diversity and welcome those who want to open groceries, smell them, lick them, whatever. Let’s get over our xenophobia.

  106. jfk said on 17 Dec 2007 at 12:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    I can get over xenophobia, but not botulism.

  107. Ducky said on 17 Dec 2007 at 12:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    Justice - they’re not lazy, cowardly or criminals. They came here to build a better life for themselves and their families. It’s as simple as that.

  108. monticup said on 17 Dec 2007 at 1:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ducky–so what? They are here illegally. Can’t they build a better life for themselves in their home countries? That would be much simpler for all of us.

  109. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 17 Dec 2007 at 1:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ducky said on 17 Dec 2007 at 12:43 pm:
    “Justice - they’re not lazy, cowardly or criminals. They came here to build a better life for themselves and their families. It’s as simple as that.”

    Sounds like you have not done any research at all now have you??? Oh…illegals are criminals from day one. Legal residents who aid and abet are far worse…they are Felons!

  110. Anonymous said on 17 Dec 2007 at 1:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    Monticip……How do you known she was.a little illegal alien girl? What a dumb statement. Let us know when your illegal radar kicks in and we can get ICE there. You should contract with ICE and get paid for your little illegal girl detector

  111. jfk said on 17 Dec 2007 at 2:09 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ducky-you can’t really have your head that far in the sand, can you?
    I can’t tell if someone is illegal by looking at them, and I don’t think all illegal aliens are here for nefarious purposes. But come on, they don’t make rose colored glasses strong enough to see things the way you see them. Do you live in Prince William County? Do you get out of the house much?

  112. Krusty said on 17 Dec 2007 at 2:28 pm:
    Flag comment

    bridget- Quite a reading list you gave me. While looking at the Argus Leader one, I also discovered an article titled: “Woman to hospital after vehicle strikes cow.” She was NOT an illegal alien, FYI. (neither was the cow, presumably).

    There’s certainly some fear mongerering going on here.

  113. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 17 Dec 2007 at 2:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ducky probably lives in Arlington….am I right ducky?

  114. justice said on 17 Dec 2007 at 2:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ducky: sob, sob, sob, boo-hoo, boo-hoo. Simply go off with your ILLEGAL aliens and QUACK away their sob stories.

  115. justice said on 17 Dec 2007 at 2:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    UN Mas Mex…..you haven’t answered my questions yet….or are you and Mr Ducky one in the same?

  116. anonymoustoo said on 17 Dec 2007 at 2:54 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’ve lived in PWC for about thirty years and I get out and about practically everyday. Bratty kids in stores and people opening bottles are nothing new.

    Most of the problems that bug some of you are limited to your neighborhoods. Many of us live lives totally unaffected by these problems or rarely affected. True…your neighborhoods have changed complexion, but some of those neighborhoods have had problems for as long as I’ve lived here. If you have very affordable housing in the metro DC area, poorer people are going to move there and sub-prime mortgages played a part. There are problems that can be addressed by PWC, but it seems as though some of you are just whiners looking for things to moan about.

    Ha ha. Ducky is not the one with sob stories to tell.

  117. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 17 Dec 2007 at 3:09 pm:
    Flag comment

    Hey anonymoustoo….do you “aid and abet” illegal aliens?

  118. MP Resident said on 17 Dec 2007 at 3:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    Manassas Park has gotten overcrowding complaints from every single neighborhood, including the expensive ones near the golf course.

    The simple fact is that when you can pack 10 people into a townhouse, you can also pack 30 people into a single-family detached house.

  119. josh said on 17 Dec 2007 at 4:00 pm:
    Flag comment

    Jfk,

    I’ve had the same issues as you..people opening up items and placing them on the shelf. It’s pretty disgusting as you mentioned and I usually notify one of the workers. I used to shop at Giant, but now go a little farther to either Harris Teeter or about once a month to Wegmans. I’ll pay a little extra for a better shopping experience.

    as an FYI..they are supposed to open a new Wegmans in Woodbridge this year. For those that have not been, it’s a pretty cool grocery store.

  120. Tom James said on 17 Dec 2007 at 4:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    Fact

    90% of illegal immigrants Hispanic.

    70% Mexican.

    “Just the facts Mam.”

    If there is a finite amount of Hispanics that can enter the country legally, and the number of Hispanics are growing at an alarming rate 700,000 per year, then they must be doing this illegally/Criminally.

  121. monticup said on 17 Dec 2007 at 4:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    Anonymous–anyone with half a brain can spot an illegal alien. I’d work for ICE for free if they were interested.

  122. One Voice said on 17 Dec 2007 at 5:28 pm:
    Flag comment

    How We Recruit and Hire
    ICE recruits two ways: 1) Criminal Investigators (Special Agents) are recruited by Special Agent recruiters with each of ICE’s Special Agent in Charge (SAC) Office. 2) All other ICE positions are listed on USA Jobs, the main government jobs site.

    ICE uses a competitive hiring process to carefully and systematically evaluate applicants based on experience, education, and on specified knowledge, skills and abilities. All positions have certain minimum qualifications and requirements.

    If you are interested in a specific position and believe you meet the requirements, follow the instructions on the announcement and apply for the job using the online system. Basic requirements include possessing U.S. citizenship and successful completion of a full background investigation. Some positions require a written test and a physical. Applicants may be required to submit to a drug test.

    http://www.ice.gov/careers/workice.htm

  123. redawn said on 17 Dec 2007 at 6:41 pm:
    Flag comment

    Josh,

    I LOVE WEGMANS :)

  124. anonymoustoo said on 17 Dec 2007 at 7:13 pm:
    Flag comment

    Patriot,
    “Hey anonymoustoo….do you “aid and abet” illegal aliens?”

    Not unless they’re filling my order at Panera’s. (BTW,that was a joke. I have no reason to think any of Panera’s employees are illegally here. )

    And I still haven’t seen any Hispanic men sitting in front of Bloom’s. I think you don’t live in the Independent Hill area.

  125. WGW said on 17 Dec 2007 at 7:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    anonymoustoo said on 17 Dec 2007 at 7:13 pm:
    Patriot,
    I think you don’t live in the Independent Hill area.
    _____________________________________-
    atoo: Since you don’t think he lives in Independent Hill area.
    Please, do tell us your suspicions. This should be good.
    I’ll be waiting.

  126. anonymoustoo said on 17 Dec 2007 at 7:54 pm:
    Flag comment

    WGW, Sudley.

  127. NoVA Scout said on 17 Dec 2007 at 8:01 pm:
    Flag comment

    This is an elite crowd here - almost everyone has sensors lacking in most humans that enable them to spot an uninspected entrant on sight. Monticup takes it one step beyond to the superhuman ability to spot illegal kiddies. Very impressive.

    Patriot: your theory that the only folks who come here from other countries are ones that have committed crimes is interesting. How do we know that? I ’splained to you and your buddies some months ago that uninspected entry is not a crime. So no exucses for ignorance on that front. Also, I’m very interested in your theory that folks who advocate reform of immigration laws are “felons.” Are you telling us that there is a 1:1 correlation between favoring immigration reform and past convictions for felonies? Curious. Pardon me for being a little sceptical , but I’ll review the data when you post it.

  128. Bridget said on 17 Dec 2007 at 8:43 pm:
    Flag comment

    redawn said on 17 DEC 2007 AT 6:41 pm:

    Josh,

    I LOVE WEGMANS
    __________________________________________________________
    (The Bias Police wish to mark this post for impartial scrutiny as potentialy anti-diversity, anti-inclusionary, anti-tolerant and evidence of a shopping bias. Our bias of bias is not bias. Our intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. Our scrutiny of scrutiny is not scrutiny. Pick and choose at your peril.)
    __________________________________________________________

  129. redawn said on 17 Dec 2007 at 8:50 pm:
    Flag comment

    Bridget,

    I LOVE WEGMANS. opinion…fight it? What is your point? I don’t care what people think … I say what I mean and mean what I say. IF it is misconstrued, I try to correct it and If I read something that I question, I ask it.

  130. Bridget said on 17 Dec 2007 at 8:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    NoVa Scout,

    Would you be so kind as to recap your claims regarding unauthorized entry? Or direct us to your original posting of said claims?

  131. redawn said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    Bridget, You used my OPNION about Wegmans to Josh,

    with this underneath. Are you generalizing? I would like to know what you are saying and HOW I fit into the unknown….

    (The Bias Police wish to mark this post for impartial scrutiny as potentialy anti-diversity, anti-inclusionary, anti-tolerant and evidence of a shopping bias. Our bias of bias is not bias. Our intolerance of intolerance is not intolerance. Our scrutiny of scrutiny is not scrutiny. Pick and choose at your peril.)
    __________________________________________________

  132. jfk said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    I love Wegmans too, and am man enough to admit it.

  133. UnMasMexican said on 17 Dec 2007 at 9:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    justice: you are too ignorant to worry about.

  134. monticup said on 17 Dec 2007 at 10:40 pm:
    Flag comment

    UMM– so why are you worrying? Answer the questions.

  135. WGW said on 17 Dec 2007 at 10:47 pm:
    Flag comment

    atoo: Thank you for your reply. I don’t care where The Patriot lives. I just pleased we have him on his “Patriot Patrol” and on bvbl.
    The Patriot,
    Keep it up!

  136. Bridget said on 17 Dec 2007 at 10:52 pm:
    Flag comment

    redawn,

    I am on your side … and your opinion, and specifically your right to an opinion are without scrutiny from me. Might just check out Wegmans myself.

    Just making a point about those who think their own opinions are unbiased and impartial. Your simple post was a perfect example to me of the multitude of choices we all make in our lives. Pointing to a hypocricy is all.

  137. NoVA Scout said on 17 Dec 2007 at 11:06 pm:
    Flag comment

    It was months ago, Bridget, and others have also straightened this out for the benighted here. Uninspected entry (a legal term of art to describe coming across our borders without submitting to inspection of documents - not my coinage) is a misdemeanor punishable by a monetary civil penalty - sort of like low-grade speeding tickets under state law. You can also be deported, but deportation is not mandatory. There are a few people here (and, alas, elsewhere) who rail against crimes by illegal immigrants. When you point out that the crime rate for illegals is lower than for that of the U.S. citizen population, they say “well, they’re all criminals - they came here illegally.” When you point out that illegal immigrants put more into the economy than they take out, you get this “Well, they’re all criminals” stuff.

    “Illegal” is a loose term but it isn’t synonymous with criminality. When you exceed the speed limit, you are driving illegally, but you are not a criminal. When you let your dog off-leash, that’s illegal, but neither you nor your dog are criminals. Illegal aliens violate the law by coming here without passing through authorized checkpoints and showing documentation. They’ve acted unlawfully. They are not criminals until they rob a bank or some such thing. No doubt plenty of illegals and legals and Yankee Doodle Dandies Born on the Fourth of July are criminals, but beware Patriot, Monticup, and others who try to equate uninspected entry with criminality. Patriot is now on a jag where he’she goes farther and says that those who “aid and abet” (another legal term of art that Patriot, from context, appears to imply is anyone who is less rabid than he on this subject) is a “felon.” A felon is someone who has been convicted of a felony. It doesn’t apply to those who think a lot of folks on this site have gone ’round the bend exaggerating what are some very real issues about immigration that aren’t getting addressed intelligently in the midst of all this hysteria.

  138. MP Resident said on 17 Dec 2007 at 11:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    “When you exceed the speed limit, you are driving illegally, but you are not a criminal.”

    Even if you happen to exceed the speed limit by more than 20MPH or over 80MPH (which is a class 1 misdemeanor) and you get jail time?

  139. MP Resident said on 17 Dec 2007 at 11:30 pm:
    Flag comment

    “When you point out that the crime rate for illegals is lower than for that of the U.S. citizen population, they say…”

    …how do we know who is illegal and who isn’t, given that very few police agencies are participating in the 287g program which gives them the training to make that determination?

    You’re fond of saying that it’s difficult if not impossible to tell who is illegal. Well, doesn’t that also apply to the crime stats? I guess you can’t have it both ways, can you?

  140. NoVA Scout said on 18 Dec 2007 at 12:13 am:
    Flag comment

    So are you saying that the statistics are wrong, but that we should act on . . . . what?

    Yeah - it’s hard to count stuff that isn’t recorded or visible. That’s why the current situation badly needs strong federal action to get all these people out of the legal/regulatory nether world. But, to the degree you can quantify these things, crime rates are not particularly high in the illegal immigrant population. So if there are problems (and I acknowledge that there are) high crime rates aren’t among them. While we’re at it, costs don’t appear to be a big problem either, at least not in a national/macro sense. I continue to be careful in holding out the possibility that individual communities might have net negative cost impacts, depending on the proportional density of illegal populations. In these cases, getting a grip on who’s where would help underpin federal impact aid to offset the costs of federal incompetence and lack of will on this issue. But . . . getting the info that we seem to all say we would like to have is pretty doggone difficult when local tinhorn pols dumpster-diving for votes put in place expensive, futile measures that drive illegal immigrants deeper underground. I’m getting fairly impatient for some policy smarts on this issue.

    MP Res: Yep. It’s possible to break traffic laws so egregiously that, if convicted, you become a criminal. But in the legal heirarchy, uninspected entry doesn’t come up to that level of criminality. I dare say, by the way, that there are more than a couple of vociferous readers here who have nudged their Pintos into felony traffic violation territory at least once in their lives who are more likely to think a 10-year old girl in the grocery store (who may well be a US citizen, even if her parents are not) is a “criminal” than they are. Of course, they’re quite wrong, but I’m afraid that’s the mentality that lies on the surface of things in some of these comments.

  141. MP Resident said on 18 Dec 2007 at 12:24 am:
    Flag comment

    I’m saying that the statistics merely show that the amount of crime committed by “confirmed” illegal aliens is very low. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that a typical illegal alien’s contact with state or local law enforcement will not result in their illegal presence being discovered, recorded, or otherwise acted upon, particularly because the prevailing attitude of local law enforcement seems to be that such matters are best left to the Federal Government to deal with.

    As far as “felony traffic violations” go, I doubt anyone here has been involved in homicide hit-and-run or felony eluding.

    As far as “uninspected entry”, my understanding is that this becomes a felony if you enter a second time after having been deported.

  142. MP Resident said on 18 Dec 2007 at 12:26 am:
    Flag comment

    “I continue to be careful in holding out the possibility that individual communities might have net negative cost impacts”

    I maintain that Manassas Park is better off with an empty house with back taxes not paid on it than that same house with the taxes current and filled with 15 people, particularly if any of those 15 people are under the age of 18.

  143. CitizenofManassas said on 18 Dec 2007 at 12:27 am:
    Flag comment

    Nova,

    How often do you like to be wrong? Again, they enter the Country illegally, criminal act. They work here, another criminal act. They have a driver license, another criminal act. At what point do you want to consider them criminals. If they purchase documents on the black market, that is a criminal act. Yes, if you conspire to help an illegal, you too should be locked up.

    If you have two or more families living in a single family home, each family has kids in public schools, and the folks who work do not pay taxes on the money they earn. How exactly are they paying more into the system then taking out?

  144. MP Resident said on 18 Dec 2007 at 12:31 am:
    Flag comment

    That is true. In order to function in this country, the average illegal alien has to commit crimes like identity theft.

    Some would argue that these additional crimes shouldn’t count because they were forced to commit them by our unfair immigration system which needs to be reformed.

  145. josh said on 18 Dec 2007 at 2:04 am:
    Flag comment

    Redawn/Jfk,

    I could spend all day in Wegmans…if only there was one closer I would go more often! I tend to spend too much money when I go there, lot’s of neat stuff to pick up and you can even stop to eat a pizza in the store..now that’s pretty cool.

  146. Anonymous said on 18 Dec 2007 at 2:54 am:
    Flag comment

    SAN DIEGO — The Border Patrol says its agents were attacked nearly 1,000 times during a one-year period along the Mexican border, typically by assailants hurling rocks, bottles and bricks. Now the agency is responding with tear gas and powerful, pepper-spray weapons, including firing into Mexico.

    The counteroffensive has drawn complaints that innocent families are being caught in the crossfire.

    “A neighbor shouted, ‘Stop it! There are children living here,” said Esther Arias Medina, 41, who on Wednesday fled her Tijuana, Mexico, shanty with her 3-week-old grandson after the infant began coughing from smoke that seeped through the walls.

    A helmeted agent on the U.S. side said nothing as he stood with a rifle on top of a 10-foot border fence next to the three-room home that Arias shares with six others.

    “We don’t deserve this,” Arias said. “The people who live here don’t throw rocks. Those are people who come from the outside, but we’re paying the price.”

    Witnesses in Arias’ hardscrabble neighborhood described eight attacks since August that involved tear gas or pepper spray, some that forced residents to evacuate.

    The Border Patrol’s top official in San Diego, Mike Fisher, said his agents are taking action because Mexican authorities have been slow to respond. When an attack happens, he said, American authorities often wait hours for them to come, and help usually never arrives.

    “We have been taking steps to ensure that our agents are safe,” Fisher said.

    Mexico’s acting consul general in San Diego, Ricardo Pineda, has insisted that U.S. authorities stop firing onto Mexican soil. He met with Border Patrol officials last month after the agency fired tear gas into Mexico. The agency defended that counterattack, saying agents were being hit with a hail of ball bearings from slingshots in Mexico.

    U.S. officials say the violence indicates that smugglers are growing more desperate as stepped-up security makes it harder to sneak across the border. The assailants try to distract agents long enough to let people dash in the United States.

    The head of a union representing Border Patrol employees said the violence also results from the decision to put agents right up against the border, a departure from the early 1990s when they waited farther back to make arrests.

    “When you get that close to the fence, your agents are sitting ducks,” said T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council.

    Border Patrol agents were attacked 987 times along the U.S.-Mexico border during the 12-month period that ended September 30, the agency said. That’s up 31 percent from 752 attacks a year earlier, and it’s the highest number since the agency began recording attacks in the late 1990s.

    About two-thirds of the attacks were with rocks. Many of the rest involved physical assaults, such as illegal immigrants getting into fist fights with guards.

    About one of every four attacks occurred in San Diego, and most of those happened along a heavily fortified, 10-mile stretch of the border starting at the Pacific Ocean.

    Agent Joseph Ralph estimates he has been struck by rocks 20 times since joining the Border Patrol in 1987, once fracturing a shoulder blade. “You find yourself trying to take cover,” he said.

    About four months ago, a large rock struck the hood of agent Ellery Taylor’s vehicle. “The only thing you can think is, ‘I’m glad that that wasn’t my head.’ There’s no way to see it coming,” Taylor said.

    In October, agents in California and Arizona received compressed-air guns that shoot pepper-spray canisters more than 200 feet. Agents already had less powerful pepper-launchers that lose their punch after about 30 feet - even less if absorbed by thick clothing or cardboard.

    The Border Patrol says the pepper weapons are a less lethal alternative to regular guns, but they have caused at least one fatality. In October 2004, a college student died after she was struck in the eye by a pepper-spray canister that officers fired to control a celebration of the Red Sox’s pennant win.

    Border Patrol SWAT teams along the 1,952-mile U.S.-Mexico border are also equipped with tear gas, “flash bombs” that emit blinding light and “sting ball” grenades that disperse hundreds of tiny rubber pellets.

    U.S. officials say the new tactics may spare lives. An agent shot and killed a 20-year-old Mexican man whose arm was cocked back in March in Calexico, California, where rock attacks have soared in the last year. Two years ago, an agent fatally shot a rock thrower at the San Diego-Tijuana border.

    No criminal charges were filed in either case.

    Robis Guadalupe Argumedo, a seamstress in Tijuana, said she has been startled by tear gas on four nights since August 7, when her 12-year-old son suffered a nose bleed. That attack also shattered a window of her neighbor’s car.

    Argumedo, 31, said she shouted in protest across the border at a helmeted agent on December 8 after opening her front door to a cloud of tear gas. “He said: ‘I’m the policeman of the world and I can do what I want.’”

    Benito Arias said his 19-year-old sister-in-law fainted during an apparent tear gas attack about two weeks ago. The woman, five months pregnant, was given oxygen at the hospital.

    His father, Jose Arias, fled with his wife a few blocks away, where paramedics checked their blood pressure. He said he sympathizes with the Border Patrol because Mexican authorities do nothing to prevent people from hurling rocks over the fence at agents.

    “This is a matter between government and government,” said Arias, 75. “They have to work out an agreement. We are innocent. What can we do about it?”

  147. freedom said on 18 Dec 2007 at 6:57 am:
    Flag comment

    Nova, why can’t you simply accept the fact that illegal aliens shouldn’t be here in the first place? It’s as simple as that; no need to argue statistics, no need to argue cost, no need to argue motivation — regardless of what you want to call them, if they don’t go through the legal process, they simply shouldn’t be here!

    How in the world can you refute that? There’s no sensible way!

  148. Bridget said on 18 Dec 2007 at 7:18 am:
    Flag comment

    http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2007/12/17/mary-rose-wilcox-and-radical-hispanics-evict-patriots/print/

  149. NoVA Scout said on 18 Dec 2007 at 8:00 am:
    Flag comment

    freedom: the only reason I inject facts into the discussion is because so many folks here are enamored of myth and stereotypes. Frankly, if you want to have a policy debate on the sole basis that “they shouldn’t be here,” I’d consider that an honest, straightforward position and one with which I could agree. But they ARE here in large numbers, and the only way one gets to sound policy is to deal in facts and do what’s best for the country. Leave all the ethnic slurs and re-jiggered welfare queen anecdotes behind. Some are criminals, some are not. Same with citizens. Some pay more in taxes than they take away, some don’t. Same with citizens. Some communities benefit from their presence, some net out in the red.

    BTW, I really like Wegmans, too, but we don’t have one near where I live, doggone it.

  150. CitizenofManassas said on 18 Dec 2007 at 8:11 am:
    Flag comment

    NOVA,

    But the fact remains they are here illegally, and should not be. Stop making excuses for them. You have attempted to compare Citizens with an alien. There is no comparison. One belongs here, the other does not.

  151. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 18 Dec 2007 at 9:17 am:
    Flag comment

    NoVA Scout,

    To address what seems to be your mantra here:
    ________________________________________
    “Illegal” is a loose term but it isn’t synonymous with criminality. When you exceed the speed limit, you are driving illegally, but you are not a criminal. When you let your dog off-leash, that’s illegal, but neither you nor your dog are criminals. Illegal aliens violate the law by coming here without passing through authorized checkpoints and showing documentation. They’ve acted unlawfully.
    ________________________________________

    Let’s start with some definitions:

    American Heritage Dictionary
    il·le·gal (ĭ-lē’gəl) Pronunciation Key
    adj.

    1. Prohibited by law.
    2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.
    3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation.

    n. An illegal immigrant.

    —Synonyms 1. unlawful; illegitimate; illicit; unlicensed. Illegal, unlawful, illegitimate, illicit, criminal can all describe actions not in accord with law. Illegal refers most specifically to violations of statutes or, in organized athletics, codified rules: an illegal seizure of property; an illegal block (in football). Unlawful means not sanctioned by or according to law: an unlawful claim to the inheritance; to take unlawful advantage of the trading situation. Illegitimate means lacking legal or traditional right or rights: an illegitimate child; illegitimate use of privileged knowledge. Illicit, which originally meant simply “not permitted,” now most often applies to matters regulated by law with specific emphasis on the way things are carried out: illicit conversion of property; an illicit attempt to control the market. Criminal most often refers to violation of the statutes of penal as opposed to civil law. All felonies are criminal as are all crimes sometimes punishable by death such as murder, arson, and kidnapping: a criminal act.
    ___________

    American Heritage Dictionary
    crim·i·nal (krĭm’ə-nəl) Pronunciation Key
    adj.

    1. Of, involving, or having the nature of crime: criminal abuse.
    2. Relating to the administration of penal law.
    3.
    1. Guilty of crime.
    2. Characteristic of a criminal.
    4. Shameful; disgraceful: a criminal waste of talent.

    n. One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.
    __________________

    With a few definitions out of the way here, let’s talk about your rant.

    1) If you break the law, you are a criminal, period. What you have done is illegal and you are a criminal. I broke the law this morning by going 40 in a 35. Just because I am not caught, this time, doesn’t excuse the behavior, I still broke the rule of law. (On a side note, I always said one of my favorite things about being a Paramedic was I got to speed legally)

    2) The passing through without going through a checkpoint is against the law and they are criminals, period.
    _________________

    The apologists like you are part of the problem. You, meaning the group of people not you specifically, all want this to go away so we can get along. Many people, like myself, want the people to go back to where they came from and enter the right way. We, meaning the people of like mind to myself, want them to stop forcing their culture on us. We want them to accept the American culture and learn to live within it. This isn’t rocket science, assimilate and you will have less problems than you are facing right now. People feel their way of life is threatened and they are fighting back. I liken this to the old saying, you don’t kick a lying dog because he will get up and bite you EVERY time. They are kicking the lying dog and he is up and biting in the way of raids and such. If the ILLEGAL aliens had just came in and assimilated, learned English, accepted the American culture and blended in, they would not be having the problems they are having now.

    I am not sure they contribute more in taxes than services provided they use. How many day laborers pay taxes on the cash they receive? How many employers pay the employee taxes for them? I can not see the argument that they give more than they take. Who pays for the hospital bill when they use the hospital and do not pay for the services rendered? You and I do with higher costs. That argument really doesn’t hold nay water. How much property tax do they pay to support the schools and other educational services?

  152. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 18 Dec 2007 at 9:31 am:
    Flag comment

    Port 25 is the SMTP port for email.
    Port 110 is the POP3 port for email.

    Why would email ports be used to do web browsing since ports 80 and 443 (secure https) are used? Someone could port these through NAT (Network Address Translation), which I could explain in detail if requested, but it is not common.

    However, there is a chance that they have hijacked the Library network and they are using the port 25 to go to the internet. If this is the case, the LAN admin at the library needs to be notified.

  153. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 18 Dec 2007 at 9:32 am:
    Flag comment

    crud, that is what I get for having more than one BVBL tab open in Firefox. My first cross post. I have to pay closer attention. The previous post was for another thread (c:

  154. MP Resident said on 18 Dec 2007 at 10:14 am:
    Flag comment

    It looks like that IP address is accepting connections on port 25 because it is an external-facing IP address and it is reverse-nameserved to something like mx4.pwc.gov (mx usually stands for “mail exchanger” and denotes an IP address used to send and receive mail).

    I suspect they have port forwarding set up on whatever device this IP address belongs to so connections to port 25 are forwarded to yet another internal machine.

    It also looks as I mentioned that many internal machines are being NAT’d behind this IP address..

    It’s a very similar configuration to what we have at work. We have an entire state government network natted through two IPs.

    (Let me tell you, it is a real pain to try to figure out what internal machine did what with that external IP because there is no logging… there are so many connections being made and torn down that the logs would be unmanageable. If there’s a recurring problem (spam, abusive posts, etc) I can create a signature on the intrusion detection system to trip on it. But if it’s just something that happened once..sorry, I probably won’t be able to find out who did it).

  155. One Voice said on 18 Dec 2007 at 10:22 am:
    Flag comment

    Horrors, more tax dollars at work??? :)

  156. Solomon said on 18 Dec 2007 at 12:39 pm:
    Flag comment

    Did not the Wal-Mart have CCTV and a replay button?
    Solomon

  157. MP Resident said on 18 Dec 2007 at 2:24 pm:
    Flag comment

    I think the issue with Wal-Mart would be whether or not they had anyone who knew how to make the replay button work! Or cared enough to, as the case might be.

    Plus a lot of those cameras are pan/tilt/zoom and they may not have been aimed at the position of interest.

  158. NoVA Scout said on 18 Dec 2007 at 10:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    /\/\ etc. Thanks for the help with my point on the definitions. Glad to have you in my camp. But I think you’re a little hard on yourself to classify yourself as a criminal for your exuberance behind the wheel. First of all, you didn’t get caught and weren’t convicted. Second, even if you had been caught, you drove illegally, but you’e not a criminal. In any event, if you’re a criminal, and everyone else is a criminal, we’re all in this together, I guess.

  159. NoVA Scout said on 18 Dec 2007 at 11:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    CoM and /\/\/\(whatever): I’ll type slowly for you on the economics. Illegal immigrants contribute the value of labor, taxes, contributions to the cash economy, rents etc. They take out (like everyone else) public services and impose wear and tear on the infrastructure. Where we make some money on all this (mind you, I don’t think this is good or fair - it’s just arithmetic) is that they pay for some stuff that they can’t use because of restrictions on access to services by illegals.

    Between half and 3/4 of the 2Is do work on the books. They pay state and federal income taxes. they also pay social security and Medicare, but they are ineligible to receive the benefits. The IG of the Social Security Administration quantified the 2I contribution to Social Security from 1937 to 2003 at around $5.25 billion.

    Arkansas is instructive (I pick this up now because of the attention that Huckabee is getting). Arkansas has had substantial 2I growth between 2000 to 2005. Estimates are that there are 100,000 immigrants in Arkansas. 65,000 are Hispanic. Half of these are illegal. A 2006 study from the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation (see yesterday’s WSJ) tried to quantify financial/economic impact. They concluded that the 2004 negative impact on Arkansas of the immigrant population was around $240 million, but that the plus side of the ledger checked in at close to $260 million. The report concluded that the State’s GDP was increased by about $1.4 billion by the presence of immigrant labor.

    Obviously, these numbers are going to vary from location to location and I have no problem acknowledging that the numbers may come out negative depending on where you draw the lines on a map. But they are consistent with national projections. So just lose the Carl Sagan order of magnitude (billions and billions) cost figures. This isn’t a cost problem. It’s a policy problem re security and making sure the US is competitive in attracting all levels of immigrant labor over the next 50 years.

  160. Bridget said on 19 Dec 2007 at 7:24 am:
    Flag comment

    Most of the benefits acrue to the illegal aliens and their employers. The benefits are privitized while the costs are socialized - and the social costs are huge.

    The notion of plumping up the bottom line regardless of any other factors is utterly irresponsible and selfish. Heck, I could turn tricks or pimp out my kids to increase our family income. We could all do our part to boost the economy if we could just ignore a few laws … moral and otherwise.

    Let’s all just turn back the clock and use slave and child labor. Who, after all, can compete with the Chinese who can rely on prison labor.

    Economic expedience does not excuse - or justify - illegal immigration. Nor does importing any and every level of labor from overseas. We could replace every American employee with a foreigner willing to do the job for less …

    Nor does economic expedience excuse the exploitation of their labor. The days of big business passing on the cost of their cheap labor onto the taxpayers is now front page news … to the point of it being a major and pressing issue in the 2008 presidential campaign.

    On of my neighbors came to the states from India during the late ’60’s. He owns two coin operated laundrettes … and readily admits that the bulk of his customers are newly arrived latino “immigrants”.

    He also hires from that work force and is fretting over current events regarding that population. He frets because there is a good chance that his customer base, along with his employees, could be here illegaly. That his employees have documents does not mean those documents are legit. He also frets over a brother who lives in Chicago who works for Air India in the cargo department. “What a strain” he told me “it has been for my brother because of the feds cracking down on the employment of illegal aliens at the airport.”

    What a surprise it was to see the big OBAMA ‘08 bumper sticker on his van.

  161. Clairese Lippincott said on 19 Dec 2007 at 12:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    The tear drop tattoo doesn’t necessarily mean the guy killed someone. It can also be a sign of mourning for another who died. So don’t have irrational fear just because some beaner has an ugly tattoo; it is just their screwed up culture and the fact that many of them don’t yet know how to live in a civilized society.

    I know some readers freak out when they read a slang term, like “beaner” but it is just a collective slang term and is meant as a generalization. No need to read prejudice into it, beaners call each other beaners and wetbacks all the time. Just like the use of the word nigger is used by other niggers, they don’t mean anything by it. It is how the word is used, and in this case, beaner is used to describe a group in a general way, without meaning anger or prejudice toward them.

    While some of the beaners might be criminals, I think most are just trying to make a life, like the rest of us. An affirmative step, rather than whining about the beaners, is to help them by getting your church or business to hold ESL classes and Citizenship classes.

    When I lived in South Texas, many recent immigrants arrived with terrible hygiene practices and many also got in trouble with the law. The local community, especially the churches got involved and began teaching hygiene, citizenship and ESL, and it really helped. The beaners of today can become the upstanding American citizens of tomorrow, if we can deal with this current wave of illegal immigration in a rational way and not let someone’s creepy tattoos get in the way of our attempts to understand or help them become good Americans.

  162. Dolph said on 19 Dec 2007 at 7:59 pm:
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    Clairese Lippincott,

    If your interest in immigrants, legal or illegal, was genuine, you would refrain from using language on this blog that has the potential to get it targeted as a hate group.

    I am certain you know better. In a civilized society, there are just certain ways to talk in public. I don’t give a rat’s rear end how you talk in private, but a blog is not private.

  163. Michael said on 19 Dec 2007 at 11:10 pm:
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    I think some of you people are complete idiots about what defines racism and supremacy.

    Anyone here who uses any term that targets a specific race, ethnic group, religion or gender in any negative and derogatory way is expressing racial and ethnics hatred, and doesn’t understand a single concept of individual rights and the US Constitution.

    Individuals commit bad and illegal behavior, not groups (some people are just stupid)

    ON THE OTHER HAND, Anyone here who uses any term that identifies their own race, ethnic group, religion or gender as something superior or deserving of special privilige, special heritage, special recognition, special treatment, special pride, special cultural supremacy AND/OR who identifies themselves with a specific racial, ethnic, religious or gender group deserving special treatment (which INCLUDES the perceived ethnic right to break the law) is ALSO expressing racial and ethnic hatred for all groups not of their own self-segregating identity and THAT individual doesn’t understand a single concept of individual rights and the US Constitution either.

    Police yourselves, and understand clearly the day will come when the majority of INDIVIDUALS will have had enough of illegal INDIVIDUALS who break our immigration laws, as WE THE PEOPLE in order to form a more perfect union will vote with our INDIVIDUAL vote, massed as many to hold all of you individuals who are illegal in our country accountable for your lawbreaking. We will pass these laws to make life hard on you who ignore our laws and we will remove you from this country in favor of bringing in honest and civilized people who will respect our concept of individual freedoms, not the rights of Ethnic groups to hate other ethnic groups or a right to self-segregate and speak your own “private and special superior language” because you don’t like people of other races. genders, religions or ethnic groups all speaking the same language, all following the same laws, all acting as individuals and all treating each other with individual dignity deserved and respected through display of mutual individual understanding and common value systems.

  164. Michael said on 19 Dec 2007 at 11:18 pm:
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    Anyone who says derogatory things based on anything other than individual behaviors should be chastized by everyone. Anyone who supports ethnic segregation, use of ethnic supremacy language and association with an ethnic group as something special and exhibiting supremacy behavior , anger, hatred, and derogatory, or militant language as a group should be chastized by everyone. Anyone who breaks and supports breaking the law should be chastized by everyone. These issues are non negotiable in terms of the existing law and ethics of civilized communities.

  165. Clairese Lippincott said on 20 Dec 2007 at 5:23 pm:
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    So, Dolph, you support the right to have freedom of thought, but not freedom of expression. They had a similar program to your ideas in Germany back in 1939.

    In America, aside from yelling “fire” in a theater when there is no fire, and similar acts designed to start a stampede, we do not have laws that ban words (at least not yet). I suspect that a Hillary or Osama Obama would push us further down the path to banned words, like Canada now has, but the voters can choose to vote for Freedom instead. www.RonPaul2008.com

    As a multiracial woman, who has also worked as an activist on behalf of the transgendered community, I am familiar with the difference between an epithet directed at a person and the benign use of slang, used as a generalization.

    In a society that treasures Liberty and Justice for all of its citizens, we cannot have banned words. Our tolerance must work in both directions on the political spectrum, allowing, for example, the White separatist and the La Raza activist to both present their ideas in the public square, then allowing their ideas to be judged only on their merit.

    If we can help stimulate a candid dialog, one without banned words, then there is hope that even the most polarized citizens can find common ground on issues such as infrastructure, housing, agriculture and the environment.

    As Andrew Young pointed out in a speech given in 2001, the White poor have more in common with the American Negro than they have differences, yet politicians have traditionally played these two groups against one another.

    Here in the Twenty-First Century, we need to create an environment where immigrants can be taught to quickly integrate into American society. We can achieve this result with ESL, Citizenship and Hygiene classes. To foster better relations between Blacks,Whites, and other sub-groups, we should foster an open society where frank discussions are encouraged, and no words or ideas are banned.

  166. CitizenofManassas said on 20 Dec 2007 at 7:41 pm:
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    NOVA Scout,

    Again, how is cheating the system and benefiting from it a conservative value? Do you support the rule of law? Why do you support child molesters and murderers? Why do you support people who steal?

    How do people who get paid in cash pay taxes? How do people who do not work pay any taxes at all?

    Why do you support people that rape?

    Again, illegals do not pay their fair share. They are here illegally, this has nothing to do with having enough labor over the next fifty years, and besides, what is going to happen in fifty years that will then require the United States to not have the need for labor?

    Illegals make up less than 5% of the total work force, we would not miss them at all. Though, I suppose someone like you, would since you seem to have the same morals as they do.

    Did you read the MJM today? I guess there goes your lies about how illegals pay into the system.

  167. Dolph said on 20 Dec 2007 at 8:57 pm:
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    Clairese Lippincott,

    Reread what I said. I didn’t deny you freedom of speech.

    When we come together as a group, we use language that is not offensive to members of the group, in a civilized society. I actually admonished your manners, not your right to use crude, unacceptable speech. Please learn the difference if you are so freaking diverse.

    So far you have proven yourself to be rude, crude, and socially unattractive.

    FINIS

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