I can accept and respect your opposition to RU 486, especially if you have a strong pro-life position.

I am politically pro choice and do not get into my personal feelings about abortion in any public forums. However, if one is opposed to abortion it makes perfect sense to be opposed also to the use of RU 486, since that is what it is.

I do not consider the use of birth control pills chemical abortion. I consider it contraception. I would be extremely upset if anyone attempted to instill that kind of extremism on the rest of the population of Virginia. Furthermore, the people of Virginia would not accept it and it would probably be overruled because of the Griswold vs Connecticut Supreme Court decision.

RE: “…The humanity of the fetus depends upon how the mother perceives the ‘social relationship’ that exists between them. If the mother desires to keep the baby, then she ‘fantasizes’ it into becoming a human being. But, if she does not want the pregnancy, ‘it is something else entirely.”

I believe this is the human condition and defines how many women view pregnancy. I do not think it has anything to do with communism, marxism or any other monetary belief system.

My original remarks were regarding contraception. I do not debate abortion because it is such a complex issue with so many various views.

However, I deeply resent being called a communist because I believe in contraception and because I am politically pro-choice. I simply do not feel this is the way to exchange opinions. You obviously believe that the state should decide reproductive issues. I clearly do not. I believe each person is capable of making their own morally appropriate decisions based on that person’s own religious or ethical belief system.

Legalized abortion has it roots in Marxism, socialism, and egalitarianism. Lenin and his communist Bolsheviks were the first ones to widely and openly legalize and advocate abortion as a woman’s right. Communism viewed abortion as a vital part of implementing Marx’s and Engel’s Communist Manifesto and their desire for the “Abolition of the family!” and liberation of women who were oppressed by capitalism, marriage, and the family. Modern day Marxists are proud of their pro-abortion heritage and are still leading proponents of abortion as seen by the short article Marxism and Abortion. This article offers us the following insights on how Marxists view abortion – “A Marxist believes that personality and human value are imparted by the external and economic environment, not by any inherent spiritual value, or even by biological processes . . . . The fetus, according to a Marxist, becomes a person when he is judged as such by ‘someone of higher wisdom.’ The humanity of the fetus depends upon how the mother perceives the ‘social relationship’ that exists between them. If the mother desires to keep the baby, then she ‘fantasizes’ it into becoming a human being. But, if she does not want the pregnancy, ‘it is something else entirely.’ Her opinion of the fetus thereby denies it of personhood . . . . ‘Biological processes,’ says Albury, ‘do not carry automatic moral values as the Right to Life suggests . . . . Human economic, social and political relationships create moral values.’ . . . According to Albury, ‘Material conditions of life change, and so do moral values.’ This means that, to a Marxist, the unborn baby may be a human being for a time, but may then become depersonified and rendered ‘pre-human,’ all because his or her mother began to think differently about him or her. She adds: ‘Certainly, many women experience mixed feelings; the fantasy baby may even appear for a while. Women can tell it goodbye forever.’” The article concludes with this comment by Dr. John Whitehall: “The inhumanity of communism resides in this arbitrary assessment of human life, which is based on the Marxist valuation of certain social relationships. On this basis, millions have been told ‘goodbye’–from the purges of Russia , to the genocide in Cambodia , to the killings in the Philippines , and now to the unborn baby.” I can only agree with Dr. Whitehall’s comment and add that it is amazing that anyone, especially libertarians, would cling to anything associated with Marx’s thoroughly discredited theories. We have already had too many innocent lives needlessly sacrificed for the addle-brained utopian scheme of a classless worker’s paradise; we don’t need to add any more.

Then how do you explain me being labeled as illogical and a liberal for pointing out such crudeness on another thread? (please go check the BOCS passes on Illegal Immigration Thread) I would be verrra interested in your response to my labeling when I pointed out such crudeness.

There are some here that when challenged resort to the religous fist claiming just about anything in the name of religion. In my opinion religion is a way of life. Not something you just say; something you act upon and believe and not just on Sunday morning. Muslim terrorists claim everything in the name of religion too, there is only one side and no debate allowed. I thought we were different?

If this thread is to provide citizens with a “lively debate” how does that meld with the three automatic responses when there is disagreement. Actually there are four now illegal alien apologist, un-christian, liberal and now communist. If anything contrary is posted to a thread one of those four responses are whipped out and slammed down. I thought we were different.

Sigh…

I know there’s a thread with reference to fistshaped dildo(I appreciate the warning and all). Wow, I can’t believe such Christians would even look at something like that. Let alone post it here. What is going on here? Some sort of illness I’m just not sure what you would call it. Hmm.

PWC, you assume that you are special and therefore know the truth. That leads you to make libelous and defamatory statements about folks you don’t even know.

You have made hateful and nasty statements about the 3 of us. Perhaps we should be praying for you in hopes you might learn to exibit more Christian behavior, assuming that is your religion.

Ok, while we are at it…Una Voce, WHAT is the only thing YOU do on Sunday?

‘The Pill is NOT contraception it is a chemical abortion and to anontoo dolph and Lafayette I did NOT get the opinion of three independents i got the opinion of three twisted, morality free, Communists.’

Calling the three of us twisted, morality free and communists constitutes hatred in my book. In fact, I would say you were down-right nasty. I wouldn’t say that to someone I didn’t know. You know nothing of my morals and I certainly am not a communist. I absolutely LOVE capitalism. As for being twisted, no telling what you would call twisted. Perhaps I am in your world.

This is simply not an area of interference that the American people are goinig to allow. If contraception offends anyone, then they should avoid it. If it is against their religious beliefs, they should avoid it.

Meanwhile, leave those of us whose religious beliefs are not violated alone. My religion has advocated responsible family planning for decades.

Your opinion is just that YOUR opinion, and I don’t have to agree with you or you with me. It’s called “agree to disagree”, it’s far more respectful. You live YOUR life the way YOU want, and I will live MINE as I want.
I truly wish you a Merry Christmas. Have a little heart, why don’t ya?

Una Voce said on 18 Dec 2007 at 9:18 am:
What do you do on Sunday One Voice, Dolph, Lafayette, Krusty, redawn? It would be a good bet it doesn’t include going to church.

If you were the “God fearing” one you and other like you claim to be, you wouldn’t care how another worships. A persons relationship with God or their God is PERSONAL. I am of a belief some sort of religion is better than none. Furthermore, I’m no Dem or Repub.. I’m an INDEPENDENT to the core!!
Oh it must be great to be “holier than thou”. Keep your hate of others religion and certainly mine to yourself.
Please, I need NO prayers from those of the likes of you!

1st of all, you are false in your idea that some religion is better than none. religion doesn’t save you. forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ does. but when you accept Jesus into your heart you change, you don’t want to sin, you want to please Christ and so that is where social activism come’s in
2nd no one is saying they are Holier than thou, only God is Holy,so stop using that as a lame excuse
3rd I don’t care if you think you need it or not i’m still going to pray for you