Day Laborers Assault Woman In Woodbridge
By Greg L | 7 January 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Crime, Prince William County | 256 Comments
I’m not the only one who was interested in documenting the extent of the day laborer problem this morning. Here’s a report from a woman in Woodbridge who attempted to do the same thing at a 7-11 there, but ended up getting assaulted by day laborers.
My picture taking was cut short when the men I was photographing attacked my car. I had to quickly roll up my window as they were yelling at me and began rocking my car. I literally have pictures of them right at my car window. One man actually walked up to my driver’s side of the car and unzipped his pants and pulled his penis out! They were screaming at me and as I went to pull away, I literally thought I was going to have to hit someone because they had surrounded my car. I went across the street and called the PW County police and was I shocked!
So what are we told to do when we’re assaulted like this? You call the police, right? They’re supposed to investigate crime and arrest suspects, or so we’re told. A Lieutenant shows up, gets a statement, and then goes over to talk to the suspects just as you’d expect. Two other officers then come and speak to the victim — that’s right folks, this is a victim of a crime — and here begins the harassment:
One officer was nice, but when I told him I was taking pictures for Help Save Manassas, he literally rolled his eyes and left. The other officer, a woman was so rude, that I eventually told her I felt like I had done something wrong. She took all my information and only seemed to be concerned with the gentleman that exposed himself. I could not identify him, but I could identify two of the others that were the first to attack my car. When I showed the officer the pictures of them at my car, she informed me that there was no damage to my car and that I had irritated them when I began taking pictures. She said the most they could be charged with was disorderly conduct, but that was up to her Lieutenant.
What do you think the chances are that any of the day laborers involved in this incident will be charged with a crime? You’re right if you said “just about zero.” You see here folks, there are two sets of rules. One set of rules is for law-abiding citizens, and they are strictly enforced. The other set of rules are for illegal aliens. For some insane reason, the rules citizens are required to follow are far more strict than those applied to illegal aliens.
I’ll tell you Greg, I don’t know how you do this day in and day out, because aside my sore feelings on my part, I now have zero respect for PWC police. I’m disgusted.
Day laborers, which by all accounts are frequently illegal aliens, are permitted to assault law-abiding citizens and even expose their genitalia while doing so, and get a friendly talking to while the law-abiding citizen is harassed and abused by the very police who are supposed to be coming to their defense. This woman got abused by her would be protectors, just as yet another woman was harassed by the Prince William County Police Department at the same 7-11 that I visited earlier in the morning and called the police because she felt that she was in danger from these day laborers. Two women call for assistance because they are under attack, or in danger of coming under attack by day laborers. Both of these women end up getting abused by the officers that respond. My experience wasn’t pleasant, but I didn’t exactly feel abused by the officer that decided he was going to give me an involuntary lecture on celebrating diversity. I have to wonder whether this might demonstrate a pattern of unlawful sex discrimination by the Prince William County Police Department.
You know, I was under the impression that Chief Charlie Deane wanted to ensure that victims of crime would feel free to report crimes. I guess that only goes when the victim of crime happens to be an illegal alien.
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I think this is awful. I guess the President of Mexico was right. Where there is a Mexican, there is Mexico. Seems to me that the police are going right along with the President of Mexico. I hope that if you go out again, you are able to take someone with you that can video tape everything, including the police actions.
This is awful. Shame on the PWPD. I’m not surprised in the least by their behavior. I’ve been taking pictures of the crap for months now. I urge all to not to say a single WORD to these “hard working people” NOT!!! Here’s some pictures from that very 7-11 and the one right around the corner from it. I took these in the summer/early fall. We must rid our local businesses of these “day labor sites”. Do these business realized they are chasing their customers away. I won’t purchase items from the 7-11’s that support this type of behavior.
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/561176744SAXMFv
Greg, and Miss (?)-
Granted, these officers are in the middle of a nightmare scenario. Please, please report on and complain about ALL of the PWC police officers that you feel have treated you with less than what you feel to be courtesy and respect. Once Chief Deane gets a pile of these, he’ll have to choose who he works for-the people of PWC or the BOS. They need to know that protecting these animals is wrong. This mob acted as the cowards that they are.
By the way, a male exposing himself in the hispanic culture is an acceptable way (among males) of displaying contempt to females. I am sorry, Miss (?) that you experienced that particular cultural trait.
I would like to see every day labor site in PWC videotaped every morning and every 7-11 lose $10,000 a day in business for the next 30 days. Show the world what animals these guys are.
Put it on youtube and NOT all PWC cops are bad. I have my favorites
redawn
Right you are. Jackson is the top of my list.
When did it become a crime to take pictures? Like taking before and after pictures of 7/11 parking lots with and without day laborers.
Another example of the importance of having a day labor center that can be controlled similar to the one recently closed in Herndon. There were no attacks there and there were no workers hanging around 7-11. But you know what happened, I’m sure. Them that has the say in town decided not to continue. If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it! Guess they thought they had fixed it.
The men at your 7-11 are totally out of line and it’s terrible when they go after innocent people, but I can see why they wouldn’t want to be photographed. I wouldn’t like to have someone drive up to me and aim a camera in my either.
And don’t com back with “if don’t have anything to hide….”
Taking photos of people without their permission,is an invasion of privacy, IMO. (mug shots excepted)
I do hope the police department will heed your requests.
What do the PWC supervisors have to say about this incident? Nothing I bet!
When we have a teflon COP who is selective in enforcing the law, what do you expect?
..”aim a camera in my FACE either”
ENFORCE ALL LAWS!!! PERIOD!!!
Just like the paparrazzi and the celebs. If you don’t want a camera ‘in your face’ get off the public right of way!!!!
After all this IS STILL THE USA!!!
We don’t need a day labor center run at taxpayer expense (or anyone else’s.) We need to drive the scum out of the county and back to Mexico and wherever else they come from. There is no law that I am aware of of taking pictures in a public area. They apparently wanted a confrontation and that low life who exposed himself should have been arrested. The 7-11’s in the area should be boycotted until such time they clear the “trash” from their property. I am not surprised of the response from the police. The get the word from on high as to what their response should be (or lack of.) This situation has to be looked at closely and the appropriate action taken before someone “gets hurt.”
Krusty said on 7 Jan 2008 at 3:09 pm:
Taking photos of people without their permission,is an invasion of privacy, IMO. (mug shots excepted)
Please provide the substance of your statement above about invasion of privacy. Every TV cameraman shooting a street scene with people walking buy are breaking the law according to your theory.
A day labor center???? Holy crap! How about correcting the first wrong and force these pests to self-deport. It’s working in Arizona and it would work here if we had a BoS and Police Department that worked for the taxpayers.
Oh, by the way, the appropriate response for a filthy animal celebrating his diversity by exposing himself is to wave at it with your pinky and laugh.
Someone needs to document all the public drinking, loitering, destrcution. There is no law about picutres or videos being taken. I of course would not like someone to get up in my face either but STOP and THINK about how many times a day you are on camera and DON”T know it. Big Brother is everwhere…even Taco Bell read the sign “we are watching and listening” LOL. ( I only say Taco Bell as a friend and I were having what we thought was a PRIVATE conversation and we noticed the sign and laughed and said well now everyone knows)
You are wrong again, KRUSTY!
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
Vigilant1 + I have no substance and said so by including “IMO”, but it is my gut feeling and even if it’s OK to take a close-up (ugh) of my face, I’d feel it as an intrusion of my privacy. Street scenes are different. When I travel in foreign countries and want to take a picture of an individual, I always ask for (in signing sometimes) permission, but, you’re correct, the 7-11 out-hangers have no rights, so it’s OK.
BattleCat - the “pests” are human beings and until they self-deport they ought to have a place to be so as not to bother people like you, etal.
The crux of the above post. The police should have made some arrests according to the portion cited below:
Your Legal Remedies If Harassed
If someone has threatened, intimidated,
or detained you because you were
taking photographs, they may be
liable for crimes such as kidnapping,
coercion, and theft. In such cases, you
should report them to the police.
You may also have civil remedies
against such persons and their
employers. The torts for which you
may be entitled to compensation
include assault, conversion, false
imprisonment, and violation of your
constitutional rights.
BattleCat-Good one. Maybe a Taser????
Vigilant1 - 3:35 - Thanks for the link! It was very interesting. Printed a copy of it and will read the whole thing. I was not aware of the immense freedom to photograph anyone anywhere in a public place. It also has advise under the headline Confrontations: “Most confrontations can be defused by being courteous and respectful”.
BattleCat has another handle: “filthy animals”. Great going, boy!
Let’s just say that some communities in PWC are so disgusted by the lack of responsiveness and professionality exhibited by the PWC police that they are opting for private security services.
I suppose we’ll just have to exercise our 2d Amendment rights when we decide to take pictures of our community.
I hear ya Krusty!
Amor de Rey!
The courts have ruled numerous times that you can
take pictures on PUBLIC property - including, streets,
sidewalks, etc. Private property photos, of course,
may require the permission of the owner.
BattleCat - You think I’m an ignoramus. I read the definitions of Amor de Rey. That tells me you are the scum of the earth to even put the expression in a public blog. Look at yourself in the mirror and see someone without shame and decency!
The blog master ought to ban you!
Big Dog said on 7 Jan 2008 at 4:28 pm:
The courts have ruled numerous times that you can
take pictures on PUBLIC property - including, streets,
sidewalks, etc. Private property photos, of course,
may require the permission of the owner.
And that link I put up at 3:35 spells it out quite explicitly. There should have been some arrests made!
I haven’t posted in a while; however, this one got my attention. The law generally supports taking pictures in any public place as people have no expectation of privacy in such a situation. The law does care about how you use such pictures (generally a civil matter).
That being said, this is analogous to taking pictures in a war zone. You may have a right to be there; however, it isn’t the safest place to be. I would say that the photographer may have been technically within her rights; however, (IMHO) she demonstrated incredibly poor judgment. It would appear that she demonstrated a total lack of discretion while taking the pictures. If she assumed these folks were here illegally and that the group contained a criminal or two, she might also assume this group would resort to violence to prevent their pictures from being taken.
It’s sort of like teasing a tiger at the zoo and then being surprised when it jumps the fence and attacks. A cynical person might suspect she instigated the incident for the publicity that resulted. To paraphrase a Dierks Bentley song, What was she thinking?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again folks: Angry citizens and pitchforks are the only things that will solve this problem. The BOCS refuses to inform Deane that he MUST enforce the resolution and basically lets him get away with spitting in their eye of authority. This is an issue for the BOCS to address tomorrow night so make sure that as many of you that can be there tell them about it; Ofcr. Sanchez and his conduct specifically. I don’t take it lightly when two women get assaulted by these morons and the Police just look the other way and tell the ladies that they had it coming for doing their civic duty. The BOCS’ phones should be ringing off the hook now with concerned citizens and this incident should be media bound.
Here is the first part of the link I posted at 3:35.
http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm
I also see this incident as a hate crime but ohh yeah that’s right, I forgot! It’s only a hate crime when a white person does it….
This is the most racist country on Earth - against white people at least. Never before have I seen a country go to so many lengths to give minorities a leg up, free education, preferential hiring, etc! Racist country!
Old Soldier, I agree with what you’ve said. And I’d add that at some point (if not already) the BOCS will get tired of these near vigilante tactics and the accompanying sideshow at Citizens’ Time. There’s nary a penny to waste in our County’s budget!
The photographers were probably within their rights to take those photographs as long as the property owners didn’t tell them to stay off the property. They could still shoot their photos but might have to worry about trespass charges at that point. Being free to shoot in a public area is pretty well understood, but what a person does with the photos afterwards can be problematic…particularly if negative text is added to portray a person in false light…as an “illegal immigrant”, perhaps.
“Oh, by the way, the appropriate response for a filthy animal celebrating his diversity by exposing himself is to wave at it with your pinky and laugh.”
You could also say “That looks like a penis, only smaller”. Better if you say it in Spanish.
If you will notice the various 7/11’s in Manassas proper, that is the City of Manassas, don’t have these problems. That is because the City PD will run these people off. All of that BS about 7/11 corporate is just that, BS. It is the PWC PD who are afraid of another round of protests like the one they encountered several years ago, when they arrested a bunch of day laborers for loitering. That’s when Woodbridge Workers and Mexicans Without Borders hit the scene.
Keep taking those pictures. Make sure you are standing on public property when doing so. Take them from your car, and keep the car in gear. If approached, drive away.
One soldier, it’s reasonable to expect that the common standard of behavior doesn’t involve nearly sexually assaulting someone just for taking their picture, especially when the person stayed within their vehicle when doing so. Attacking someone in their car is reprehensible, and should be severely punished, if only our police would actually ENFORCE THE LAW. There is no excuse for this.
We should as a society have no fear of being attacked as long as we comply with the law and threaten no one — and taking a picture of someone in a public place cannot reasonably be construed as a threat. As long as we have to walk around on eggshells, giving likely illegal aliens an extra level of deferential treatment that we would not normally afford to law-abiding citizens, we’re in for a world of hurt.
“Everyone is equal, but some people are more equal than others.” Not on my watch, they are.
“It is the PWC PD who are afraid of another round of protests like the one they encountered several years ago, when they arrested a bunch of day laborers for loitering.”
That is the textbook definition of depolicing.
Old Soldier,
I have missed you. Tiger analogy is great. Says it all!
Has anyone considered that the 7-11 may have some liability here. Do they not have a responsibility to provide you afe passage while on the property AS A CUSTOMER?
If I were this person I might speak with an attorney!
OS and Dolph: you two are just empowering these guys to commit criminal acts when you compare them to animals being harassed. I get harassed on a daily basis by obnoxious people at work, drivers out on the roads, etc, etc. By using your rationale, maybe I should just pull out the little general and flash them with it once or twice to drive them away and/or threaten them with bodily harm. Sheesh, that’s about the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on a blog.
So, would I be able to bring my video-cam or Nikon to a Help Save Manassas meeting if it were held at a public school and film all the participants? Should I film them in the parking lot? How about if I followed some of them around in my car and filmed them? What if I parked across from Greg’s house and then followed him with a camera? You probably would assume that I’m not a sympathizer to your cause and you’d probably confront me to find out what’s up.
[Ed note: instead of responding much farther down on this list, I will do so here.]
Help Save Manassas meetings are open to the public. We have had numerous photographers and even film crews present. Someone disruptive while doing so may be asked to leave.
If you want to film people in a public place, such as a parking lot, on the streets, it is not against the law. Paparazzi do this all the time.
If you are among the folks who park across the street and film my house and comings and goings from there, give me a buzz so I can wave out the window to you. If I don’t know who you are, I may decide to pull out my video camera and document who you are. I am regularly photographed and filmed, and at this point it’s pretty commonplace.
LEOs cannot just go arrest people because someone says this or that. Depending on the alleged crime, you need witnesses, sworn statements, identification etc.
When dealing with the law, very often right and wrong as you know it …isn’t really that way. You should always consider your own safety first. No, it isn’t illegal to take pictures of people in a public place. However, said people might not like it and might do things you do not like to prevent the pictures from being taken.
Common sense needs to be employed. And if you get flashed….photograph the face, then the teeny weinie…. You do need a face to go along with those things.
There have been numerous people filming at HSM meetings as it should be. It is a public place. ( I have only gone to a couple of meetings)
Park’d, didn’t the woman who was the subject of the penis flashing say that she couldn’t identify the guy? Don’t you think the outcome would have been different if she had been able to show the police officer which man did the deed?
Krusty,
Mapquest and if I remember correctly Topozone has a satellite picture of your house. I have a printed copy of Woodstock, King George, Lafayette and Loudoun taped on my wall. You can see cars, backyards, driveways, etc.
Also, I found out from one of the neighborhood kids that the schools have cameras watching the students.
Unfortunately, when lawlessness increases, we lose freedoms.
hit the button to fast ( I am still trying to figure out where I live, feels like a kid that found out your parents are not your biological parents on the other thread about this, lol, boo hoo)
I meant to add that is at the meetings, it has been welcomed.
ese parecer un pene solamente más pequeño
That is the babelfish translation.
No anonymoustoo I don’t think the outcome would have been any different because a) the guy that flashed her would have been long gone by then, and b) the cops that were there were worthless racist teats that were more interested in protecting their own than doing actual police work and protecting citizens. This is truly disgusting that we are made to obey the same laws that illegals get to shun. The day is a coming folks….the day is a coming.
Bottom line, given the experiences of Greg and the subject of this post, it would seem prudent for those going to day labor sites to photograph should travel in teams…minimum of two, both armed with cameras and recorders.
anonymoustoo said on 7 Jan 2008 at 5:19 pm:
You are more than welcome to bring your camera and/or video camera to ALL Help Save Manassas meetings. They are OPEN meetings. You and everyone else knows that’s fine. 9500 Liberty were regulars at one point at our meetings.
Hope to see you at the next meeting.
Park’d,
Am I to assume that if you taunted a tiger, you would be surprised when he jumped out of his habitat and chewed your arm off?
You have been one of the most vociferous people on this blog about using various unflattering words regarding illegal immigrants. Now if you assume someone is an ‘animal’ why are you surprised when they act like one?
Park’d, I am beginning to think you wouldn’t know stupid if it bit you on the………
~~splash~~
Chris Pannell,
WHERE do we live? I feel like I need to go back to the open thread ( about the Wizard of OZ) and click my heels 3 times……
Greg,
I certainly agree with your perspective on upholding the law and expect our police to enforce the law. That being said, we have nothing but the photographer’s word that any of this transpired. I’m afraid the law requires a higher standard than the word of one person (who, in my opinion, was “looking for trouble”). Don’t you find it a bit odd that no witnesses came forward to corroborate the alleged egregious behavior of the day laborers towards this woman?
(By the way, I’m a bit honored to merit a comment from you).
It’s like the KKK wanting to march on MLK Day. While I support their 1st amendment right to march and recognize it’s legal, It’s probably not a good idea and will result in trouble.
Ohh I know stupid alright and I am looking at it and its name is Dolph and OS (at least with the before mentioned post). I have only called illegals “animals” when they act like it, such as in this case. My usual favorite term for them is “criminals” or invaders”. Someone who is in this country to feed his family and obeys the rules (other than being here illegally mind you) I have never called an animal. Your selective memory aside, I always had the utmost respect for you even considering your Hillary Clintonesque flip-flop opinions on most issues.
This is horrible and I feel so bad for the person that this happened too!!! I know when I was a victim of a similar type of crime (different jurisdiction) I pressed charges having to go down to the magistrate to do so (since the PD didn’t witness it). Although in that case the PD was helpful in obtaining the persons information for me.
I have photos I took from Rt 1 and the Parkway on Thanksgiving and Christmas day 2007 (in the mornings) showing the gatherings taking place at 7-11. Please do not be fooled thinking that the only reason people gather there is for work. I have seen groups rolling dice and money exchanging hands on more that one occasion. I will get the holiday photos to Greg as soon as I can figure out how to get them off of my camera!
Please also be sure to put blame directly on the property owners who allow a day labor site to be run from their property. 7-11 allows it and the owner of the land where the Church is located allows it. If the property owners didn’t want people congregating on their property they could ask the police for assistance and the police WOULD if asked assist them in enforcing a no trespassing notice. These locations have turned a blind eye and allow this to take place.
Please be safe out there and thank you all for everything you do to make our neighborhoods better!!!
Lafayette, I didn’t think you’d mind cameras, but other people might. It’s just a personal reaction, I guess. Once upon a time one of our neighborhoods went through a turbulent time with about a half dozen people disrupting public meetings. Finally, a woman used a video-cam to confront the rabble..and were they ever intimidated! After that, the public meetings calmed down.
Redawn, I probably live as far from Manassas as you do but in the other direction. We, too, have a Manassas mailing address. I think Big Dog wanted to make sure the distinction between the two jurisdictions was made so that the right PD or governing body got the blame (or credit). lol
Park’d,
Ok, you are surprised. I would not be.
I expect people who hang out at 7-11s to find work to not have my same social skills. In fact, I expect some of them are probably thugs. My previous work probably did a lot to instill this expectation in me.
Therefore, I would not go to a 7-11 and start taking pictures of day laborers without some back up, like witnesses, a body guard, etc etc. I would expect them to be all PO’d and act accordingly. I could be pleasantly surprised and have them all come and pose for me,giving me that toothy dolph grin……. or they could all moon me, flash me, curse me, threaten me and other negative things.
Is this not just common sense? How is this enabling and empowering thugs?
The sad thing is that it will make the day-laborers even bolder. It gives them the impression that they rule the roost.
Go back to the times ( NOT long ago)that the only people that hung out in front of 7-11 were considered loiters. Skateboarders, teenage groups,hitchhikers, homeless and drug dealers.The cops were called right away.
Does anyone remember or ever felt like, okay, I have been here long enough, I had better move on before the cops are called?
Dolph-
This woman was taking pictures, not taunting them. All of them could have walked away, instead of confronting her. Why should the average person have to avoid going to the neighborhood 7-11 because they are not comfortable wading through a bunch of disrespectful day laborers? I too am sick of the two separate laws here. One for Americans and one for illegal’s! This has to stop!!!!!
If I were the lady, and felt that I wasn’t treated appropriately by the police officer, I would be calling good ‘ole Charlie to complain.
Best part about BVBL, just can make this stuff up!!!
Or, can you?
Krusty- don’t engage with the crude guy, there’s enough in this world that infringes. When it’s a choice, take advantage!!!!!
Redawn,
Yes, I recall those days. Apparently 7-11 has decided to allow loitering.
Go down to Sheetz. You will not see the same thing at all. I have never seen a loitering day laborer there. If you aren’t buying something, you don’t stay there.
anonymoustoo said on 7 Jan 2008 at 5:19 pm:
So, would I be able to bring my video-cam or Nikon to a Help Save Manassas meeting if it were held at a public school and film all the participants? Should I film them in the parking lot? How about if I followed some of them around in my car and filmed them? What if I parked across from Greg’s house and then followed him with a camera? You probably would assume that I’m not a sympathizer to your cause and you’d probably confront me to find out what’s up.
You have every right to do what you said above. Greg also has every right to confront you (in a peaceful way) as to what your intentions are. If you stepped on his property to do it, then YOU have a problem.
Since the police apparently are not taking any action, they are allowing the situation to worsen as the perps will ratchet things up a notch the next time knowing there will be no repercussions from the authorities.
Dolph,
Funny you mention Sheetz. I was thinking of that earlier today. YOUR POINT IS NOTED it is 7-11’s fault!
I would also like to give a shout out that the 7-11 on Manassas Dr. by the fire station does not have this problem and I have changed my route last spring to stop in and get a cup of joe and some scratchers
Had to Say,
Taking their pictures is threatening to them, especially if they are illegal. Let’s face it, none of us would like it. I am not saying don’t take their picture. I am saying don’t put yourself in harm’s way. Don’t go alone. Use a telephoto lens.
I am seriously beginning to think that many people here have not had first hand experiences with real honest to goodness illegal immigrants.
Why is it so hard to understand that many of these dudes are from 3rd world countries and don’t have the same standards of law and order that most people on bvbl have? I am not excusing the behavior. Nor am I shocked by it. Just is. Exercise some caution.
Dolph,
“Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
Criminals should be afraid, not the other way around.
AWCheney said on 7 Jan 2008 at 5:27 pm:
Bottom line, given the experiences of Greg and the subject of this post, it would seem prudent for those going to day labor sites to photograph should travel in teams…minimum of two, both armed with cameras and recorders.
You left something else out………..
Dolph-
That’s why we want them OUT of here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dolph,
Re: your comment @ 7 Jan 2008 at 6:40 pm
“Why is it so hard to understand that many of these dudes are from 3rd world countries and don’t have the same standards of law and order that most people on bvbl have? I am not excusing the behavior. Nor am I shocked by it. Just is. Exercise some caution.”
This makes me want to share my story.
tee-hee
Back in High School ( SJHS) in art class, there was this exchange student from Puerto Rico and spoke NO English, I spoke nothing other than English with Manassas Dialect
One day I made a SUDDEN move across the table and she jumped and wanted to stab me with the knives we were using for a project.
I stepped right up to her with my fist. long story short, we ended up being friends. We knew what each other were saying with out speaking the language. We would call each other on the phone and still knew what each other were trying to say with SOME help from her cousin. ( she stayed with them while here, she was NOT illegal)
We even went to the movies and watched the movie, Colors ( if anyone remembers with Sean Penn)
She understood the Spanish part and would laugh her butt off while I looked at her wondering what was so funny. We both played that role as I was doing that with the English part.
Anyway, Yes, culture is a huge dividing point, she reached for the knife and I tightened up my fist. It is what you do from that point on and the best way to AVOID a confrontation like that.
I still see this a a HUGE slap in the face and officer Sanchez ( from experiences, not me being in trouble) and the situation with Greg needs ATTENTION. IT is outrageous.
Go back as a group and take pictures, use a video camera. Have backup. We need to use and defend our rights. Taking pictures in a public place is not a crime!
Batson D. Belfrey, you do not know what you are talking about. Four years ago the PWCPD did arrest 13 people for loitering AND trespassing (some of each) at the Longview 7/11. Some where found guilty and after the court hearing, the Southland Corporation (7/11’s parent company) informed the police department that they would NOT send a representative to court - as is required - to be the complaintant. So it is NOT bs, it is a fact. THe police CANNOT charge such a crime if there is no victim who has ownership of the property. That is why the police respond and cannot move the people off the property - because 7/11 says its ok to stay there. I know - I work for PWCPD. So learn before you write.
Had to Say ,
And that is your right to want them out of here.
Now who is disagreeing with you that you cannot want them out of here?
I am going to step out on another limb and agree with AWC. Sounds like a plan to me.
“Finally, a woman used a video-cam to confront the rabble..and were they ever intimidated! After that, the public meetings calmed down.”
Right anonymoustoo…they felt intimidated because they were being disruptive and doing something wrong, so they ceased. A considerably different situation from the one at that 7-11…they were physically threatening that women BECAUSE THEY were doing something wrong. That’s the difference between cultures, and one that MUST be addressed by law enforcement!
go out to these places with backup only, especially if taking pictures within their view. These vagrants have a mob-type mentality, once they get going they will be liable to do anything. Police dont seem to be of any help here and they are very liable to arrest you if anything seems amiss. It’s sad that illegals seem to have the upper hand here but I believe the cops look at it like stirring up a hornets nest, if you get bit it’s your fault for stirring it up and I think this is BS.
If it were me getting the short end of the stick from officer Sanchez I would be calling the PWPD and talking with the Chief, I would continue to call until I got ahold of Deane. If he avoided me I would contact the local news and ensure his name all over it until he called me. I hope it wouldnt come to that but whatever it takes…
One Voice at 6:31 - Thanks for the advise. I haven’t seen any more of his (gotta be a HE) comments since my blast. Could it be that he’s barred? Anyway, good riddance.
redawn said on 7 Jan 2008 at 6:59 pm:
I spoke nothing other than English with Manassas Dialect tee-hee
It is truly one of kind. Where’s Big Dog? The funny thing is you and I grew up in Manassas(PWC), and my mother grew up in the City of Manassas right down town yet we ALL three speak that endearing dialect. Hmm.
Oh yes, we could walk and ride are bikes anywhere. A bike ride to El Taco and the KMart Shopping center was a staple in the day growing up here in WestGate/Sudley. Those days have long gone.
I should add my point to my babble ( damn, I got emotional when I questioned where I lived, lol)
7-11 is responsible for allowing loitering. The situation turned when (right or wrong) pictures were taking and feathers ruffled.
What transpired after the fact in how the cops handled it is a whole different story.It sounded like they took ONE story.
I will speak of Greg’s story and say that I do believe his account to be accurate but Greg I do wonder WHY you didn’t call for another police officer out. I know it is easier said than done but if I knew I had NOT said anything, etc. I would have demanded them to send another officer out….hell, I might have even called the fire dept. again, I was NOT there, easier said than done but I would NOT have bucked down to a police officer pulling a stunt like that! I would have made sure my name was in the clear.
All-
I have been reading this thread and the previous one about the day laborer’s at the 7-11’s in the area. Below is a link to fill out a complaint form. I am going to email them right now and demand that they do something at the sites everyone is talking about. I suggest that all of you do the same. If they get enough email, maybe they will do something.
http://12.45.139.55:7001/CR/CR_home.jsp
Maureen,
Excellent idea and thank you very much.
Diito Maureen on the idea. Terrific.
Southland wouldn’t go to court — hey Dolph, is this where it get complex????
If it were me I would sue 7-11 and the PWPD. I’m not a lawyer but I know that 7-11 is responsible for what goes on in their parking lot. With the police, they can’t pick and choose whom they want to protect. She is entitled to equal protection under the law.
You have to play hardball with this filth and that includes the sneering police officers.
I would also call Lou Dobbs and Michael Savage.
Charlotte,
I’ve been taking pictures for month, and I have no confrontations with them. I do use extreme caution and never speak to them. I don’t speak their language and we are still in the U.S.A.! I had one time when several swarmmed my car the minute I pulled in the parking lot and want to know if I need workers. I told them I didn’t like ILLEGALS. The only thing we are tired of is the ILLEGAL ALIENS.
A bit off topic, but maybe a boycott of these banks is in order
http://www.examiner.com/a-1142130~Increases_in_local_Latino_population_catches_the_attention_of_major_banks.html
“I know - I work for PWCPD.”
So we know where your bias is. Thanks. You must be one of those “officers” not enforcing the law.
Thank you for your response, Lafayette. I guess I just don’t understand why you all hate them so much. There are two day laborer sites near where I live, and whenever I drive by them in the morning, I feel only pity. As far as I know, there has never been any problems at either place.
Southland is owned by a Japenese Company; not sure how they would respond to a lawsuit…
Company Name Seven & i Holdings Co., Ltd.
Head Office 8-8, Nibancho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 102-8452, Japan
Phone Number +81-3-6238-3000
Chairman and CEO Toshifumi Suzuki
President and COO Noritoshi Murata
Date of Establishment September 1, 2005
Capital 50 billion yen
Number of Shares Issued
(at the end of February 2007) 967,770,983 (One Share
As posted in other entries…………..if any members of the PWCPD aggressively pursue charges that Charlie Deane (a powerful local figure that is only the 2nd C.O.P. in the department’s history) feels are not part of his department’s image, the career of that officer will be terminated by Deane after the Chain-of-Command is structed to monitor the daily work of that officer very closely, and then charge any and all general order infractions no matter how minor the offense may seem. It’s the way Deane does business.
Why didn’t the Watch Commander (Lieutenant) or other responding patrol officers obtain the identity of these individuals or enforce the loitering laws provided to stop this day labor gathering? It’s simple………Charlie Deane doesn’t believe in enforcing any law that might be perceived as targeting minorities. Even within the ranks of his own department minorities are allowed to commit several infractions that white officers would face harsh disipline/termination for involvement. These officers knew not to enforce the law…………it wasn’t worth losing thier jobs.
If these officer’s had obtained the identity of these offender’s, they could have instructed you to take the info. to the magistrate’s office and obtain arrest warrants for them. But my guess is the officer’s were unwilling even to conduct wanted checks based on the possibility that a fugitive may have been in the crowd.
I can guarantee you this…………..citizens found loitering in posted areas are told to leave an area if found by the police. If you stay after disobeying the orders of the officer(s), you will be arrested. Sounds fair doesn’t it?
Charlie Deane has been in the Virginia Retirement System for nearly 50 years. He loses money by continuing to remain on the job. If you think remaining in place isn’t about enjoying the power he has you are fooling yourself. His policies have very little to do about keeping you and your families safe.
me-n-u
Since Bank of America has over 1.4Billion in assets in Latin America, I doubt they’d miss an account or two or 100.
One Voice -
Well let’s see what happens when the illegal’s don’t pay off their credit cards and car loans on top of Americans pulling out their money.
“Charlotte said on 7 Jan 2008 at 8:01 pm:
Thank you for your response, Lafayette. I guess I just don’t understand why you all hate them so much. There are two day laborer sites near where I live, and whenever I drive by them in the morning, I feel only pity. As far as I know, there has never been any problems at either place.”
That is the problem. You think that people who are fed up with illegal aliens loitering outside a retail establishment, harrassing patron, exposing themselves in public, urinating and deficating in public are full of hate. Please let me come over and hang in your driveway Charlotte, ask your husband for a job just because he drives a pick-up expose my privates to you and your daughter while making catcalls in spanish (I am fluent in Spanish, I know what they are saying), crap and piss in your bushes, and when you call the police to complain, have them tell you “we can’t prosecute, because you only rent this place. If the landlord won’t press charges, there is nothing we can do, and if you take pictures of them doing this, we can’t garantee your safety”, and let’s see how much longer you “feel sorry” for me.
Hey 1st responder……………..It is against PWCPD general orders to post any public address expressing your opinion regarding departmental affairs. You must first obtain clearance from the Public Information Officer.
Be careful…………Charlie Deane doesn’t need a reason to fire departmental members.
Charlotte-
Do you patronize 7-11’s that have 10 to 30 men hanging around? Not too many women do. Why should anyone have to by-pass these establishments just because the loitering laws will not be enforced? Get a bunch of white men to hang out at that same 7-11 and see if they are treated differently. I’m being serious here.
Somehow I don’t think the 1.4Billion is tied up in car loans… thought it had more to do with oil. But, I could be wrong.
Just saying, the US has sold out to just about anyone that will pay our conservative more moral corporate leaders. Think there is an oxymoron in there somewhere.
Batson D. Belfrey,
DAMN! That was excellent!
Did that woman have her daughter with her or is the story just growing?
7-11 is making money somehow, someway that is all I have to say
Why in a common sense business mind would you allow such behavior at your establishment? That is the question.
Redawn - they don’t care. They still make money and that’s all that is important. The owners live in Japan so they don’t have to see the mess. Kind of like absent landlords. Our corporate leaders have sold their holier than thou selves to the world; anyway to make a buck.
Maybe if some start losing money it will work, but people would have to stop frequenting them. We live in a conviction free society. Ain’t gonna happen, sweetie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r5ww-BdVtE
One Voice,
Yep, out of sight out of mind…as long as they ( anyone) collects their money.
“I know - I work for PWCPD. So learn before you write.”
First responder, I know exactly what I am talking about. I operate at levels far above yours, if you are what I think you are, and I have access to areas of information that you only wish you had. Worse, your outting yourself as a PWC PD employee only shows your bias, and undermines any credibility that you might have had. You would have been better off just disagreeing with me, and throwing out a few facts to support your case, instead of your limited resume. That would be like me saying “I was a directory assitance operator at MCI. I know that Bernie Ebbers was an honest man”, or “I am Dan Rather, I live and work in mid-town Manhatten. I talked to 100 people today in NYC, and no one disagreed with me, so I must not have a liberal bias”…never mind that the 100 people he spoke to, like 99% of manhatten residents are liberals. Maybe if you talked to a few people who actually prosecute crimes here in PWC, you would see that you are just toeing the department line, and have drunk the Chucky Flavo-Aid.
Well, the only time I’d be pissed off with someone taking my picture is if I didn’t get to suck in my belly first. Just trying to lighten everyone up.
Where is the MJM? Why aren’t they trying to take pictures and seeing what happens? This should be front page news MJM. I know you’re lurking……
By the way, someone asked if there was a new way to let illegals know there is room to rent - yes. I have noticed a pattern at the boarding houses in the “hood”. Watch for a knotted curtian in a front window, and sometimes in a side window. Now there are more knotted curtains than propped open storm doors seen around town.
I’ll be at the meeting tomorrow. I’ve witnessed my share of drunk driving then watched as the perp
was told not to drive the car home. Not a white
person driving, mind you.
That’s right. That’s why they don’t bother going to court. Not worth their time. That was the point of the McDonalds coffee suit. It wasn’t about the money; it was an arrogance suit. They never resonded to the old lady’s request for partial payment of her $800 emergency room bill. The more they ignored her the angrier she got. Then the judge got angry when they didn’t show. That’s why Micky D’s lost that case.
Same with the guy in Alabama who bought a $90k BMW, it came with a hug scratch. They took it back and instead of replacing the door or the car, they painted over it and painted over it badly. Now whether it’s a $90k BMW or a $18K Honda, no one should accept that.
They are called arrogance suits. That might be coming for Southland….
Southland Corp. might be owned by Japan now (used to owned by Lady Bird Johnson’s family), but I believe that they are divided into regional operations and franchises, each of which is controlled by other corporate entities. I may be wrong about that so, if anyone has the real scoop…share.
I meant, of course, that I believe that the 7-11’s are franchised.
I suggest everyone start arming themselves. Here’s why.
When the law enforcement action of a nation begins to favor criminals, look the other way, support one ethnic group over another, and blatently fail to enforce the existing law when one of its citizens are attacked, assaulted, provoked and threatened with bodily harm,
Then that nation’s police force is corrupted, that nation’s ethics are undermined and that nation’s government is on the decline into anarchy.
Anarchy leads to criminal power on the streets, and victims living in fear without protection from the law enforcement community who is sworn to protect them.
In those nations where police are no longer interested in policing or enforcement, or protection of its good people and favor its bad and criminal elements,
The citizens must protect themselves. What follows law enforcement collapse is mass corruption, what follows that is a mafia government, what follows that is a dictator for a leader, and local government implosion. What historically follows that is war and armed conflict until one side wins over the other and restores peace, removes the corruption from the government, removes the corruption from the legal and justice branch of government and removes the corruption from the police department. In several phases of our own history, only the FBI saved us from such ethnic group regional implosion and ethnic group criminal and social injustice. In other phases, we went to war with others of the world threatening such rise to criminal power and dictatorship, even very close to home.
Only armed citizens who eventually can take such a nation of decline back and put law enforcement back into its proper mode of enforcement and protection of good citizens while prosecuting criminals can guarantee the rights of “individual” freedom and protection under the law. If this continues you will need your 2nd amendment rights, but this will not be a peaceful time in history until law enforcement does its job or fails and we have the types of nations we all abhorr, ones were the citizen’s fight in the streets and there are no more police, only militants and the military…
Police officers of PWC, is this the type of society you want us to have?
Does this help? This is 2005 activity.
2005 February 7-Eleven, Inc., became a subsidiary of Seven-Eleven Japan.
June Total number of IY Bank (currently Seven Bank, Ltd.) ATMs installed at Seven-Eleven stores reached 10,000
August Delisting on First Section of Tokyo Stock Exchange
September The holdings company, Seven & i Holdings Co., Ltd., established Listing Seven & i Holdings Co., Ltd., on First Section of Tokyo Stock Exchange
November 7-Eleven, Inc., became a fully owned subsidiary of Seven-Eleven Japan Total number of stores reached - 11,000
I think calling the owners and or major shareholders absent landlords is pretty accurate. Vaguely recalled the Lady Bird connection once you mentioned it!!! Thanks for that.
Hey, why can’t these people be considered a mob and be prosecuted as such? Anyone know?
“AWCheney said on 7 Jan 2008 at 9:08 pm:
I meant, of course, that I believe that the 7-11’s are franchised.”
You are correct, as usual. Southland owns the 7-11 corperate entity, Some are corporate stores. Others are regional franchises owned by groups of investors. Still others are mom and pop franchises who used to be other franchises but were coaxed away by 7-11 corporate. Ever wonder why there are two 7-11’s across the street from each other? One is probably a corprate or regional, the other a mom-and pop. One may have a gas (citgo) franchise, while another just a retail franchise.
This is why I say that “1st responder” is full of crap. I know how the 7-11 franchise system works. They used to be clients of mine. I also know how the marriot system works, Holiday in system, WaWa, Blockbuster, and Taco Bell/KFC/Pizza Hut, and (the giant of them all) McDonalds systems work. All were clients of mine at one time. I had to deal with corporate sites, regional franchise sites, and the mom and pops. Maybe if “first responder” did something else besides buy coffee at a 7-11 while out on patrol, he might know why I laugh at his assertion that “I know what is going on…because I work for PWC PD”. Like a bat-boy saying he knows what is going on in the Bull Pen.
Prince William County Code Section 16-16 Loitering
Any persons who remain on property, publicly or privately owned, after being warned to leave by law enforcement, in such a manner to interfere or hinder the passage of pedestrians or vehicles, or is engaged in a crime, or is about to engage in a crime, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
1st Responder……..please contact the Chief of police and remind him to have members of the Patrol Division to do their jobs. This code was passed to be enforced.
The officers that responded to the 7-11 in this case should have warned these day laborers to move on after deciding not to help this woman. Then after the crowd did not leave, bring the wagon, and all the in-service street officers to the 7-11…….AND SOLVE THIS PROBLEM!
I assure you that these individuals would be convicted in court without someone from 7-11 appearing to testify. The state and local codes do not require their testimony. Your job knowledge is suspect. Your sergeant needs to provide you with some roll-call training. This is academy level stuff. If you are currently with PWCPD you must never get involved with common street crime or you would know this already. Stay off the blogs……….you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Trust me, you appear to be right in line to move up the ranks quickly as long as Charlie Deane is still in place.
1st responder is evidence that only the clueless and unemployed want to become an officer with PWCPD
NOW I get it…that Mc Donald’s coffee suit used to get to me but that’s right, IT’S CHUMP CHANGE ( hush,don’t bother me…yep, I have done that on occasion, lol)
In fairness to the franchisees of 7-11, don’t necessarily assume that they’re complicit with this. At the Coverstone location the management does run them off, and I witnessed this (they go next door instead). They are very frustrated with the day laborers, who have cost them a ton in lost business and run off their regular customers.
Take the time to talk to a manager at a 7-11 about the issue before coming to any conclusions. It’s worth it, and is often quite an eye-opening conversation.
Greg,
Since you are here posting right now. Isn’t the adjacent property the Library?
Scratch that…NO it is Not the library ( getting confused with Centreville problem for a minute.)
Anyway, all the more reason to tag team complain as Maureen did with the boycott protest ( maybe you can throw that link up as to what it takes to get things done)
Maureen stood the test of patients and is my little heroine
patience…geez, where is that person to shout out: take some prozak!?
The nearest library is around the corner on Ashton. The building next to the 7-11 is a mortage company
That 7-11 is a considerable distance from the Bull Run Library…it’s much closer to the Wal-Mart between Balls Ford and Coverstone, although not even adjacent to that. Greg, isn’t that the one behind the Pizza Hut across from the Race Track (or something like that…never use them) gas station?
Here is a GREAT example of how to move the unwanted crowd on and the response from businesses: Maureen, your lead by example and it fits this situation. ( Whew, I don’t need prozac:) busy mind )
You can find this on the thread: “FUN WITH PROTESTERS”
By Greg L | 27 August 2007 | Illegal Aliens, PWC Politics | 120 Comments
Maureen Wood had a chance to watch, and have some fun with about 50 protesters from Mexicanos Sin Fronteras at Potomac Mills today. It looks like she had a good time getting them chased from one parcel to another. This was posted in the comments on another thread, but deserves a little more visibility:
I went to the “vigil” after the press conference, which started at Sams Club across from Potomac Mills Mall. Since they are boycotting most businesses in Prince William I went into Sams Club to let their management know that there were protestors on the corner of their property, and since they were boycotting them I couldn’t understand why they would let them on their property. Well a few minutes later they moved across the street onto Potomac Mills Mall property.
I called mall security and once again asked why protesters were allowed on their property and told them that I patronize the mall and didn’t appreciate them being there. I was told that they were aware of the situation and were looking into it. I stated that I hope they were going to be told to leave. They said they could not comment.
The next thing I know, two unmarked police cars showed up along with mall management. The protesters were told to move across the street onto the sidewalk. Red Robin, a restaurant is located across the street and instead of staying on the sidewalk they moved up the hill onto Red Robins property.
So once again I went into the Red Robin, asked to talk to the manager and while I was waiting bought an iced tea to go. When the manager came out I told her about the boycott and that Mexicanos Sin Fronteras was on their property protesting. She was not happy.
I went and sat in my car to see what would happen and the next thing I know four unmarked and one marked police cars show up across the street at the mall. One unmarked car parked in Red Robins parking lot. The police then told the protesters to stay on the sidewalk. I took a couple of pictures and left around 2:20.
I went to Wal-Mart, which is beside the Sams Club, bought a digital camera, told the manager I was spending my money there because they were being boycotted. He shook my hand and thanked me.
So folks when you are patronizing businesses this week in Prince William make it a point to let the management know. They appreciate it.
Yes, you too can have fun with the local whackos, and Maureen shows you how. The next time we might be able to herd them to Maryland…
Pictures are coming. Stay tuned.
That does appear to be the 7-11 behind pizza hut across the street from race track. Place is a free for all most days.
Good Time Charlie,
I was also approached by two of those loitering at 7-11. I called police but they did nothing and the mob stayed there. I would like to know what advice can you give us? It seems like I can’t take my daughter to 7-11 to get a slurpee. I’m afraid to go to Pizza Hut to get pizza(it is next to 7-11). Now I even get nervous driving to Wal Mart because there are so many of them going back and forth across the road. I wouldn’t be surprised if they jumped a car and hijacked it. So if you have any advice as to how we can get PWC police to enforce loitering laws I would love to here it.
I like to read your comments.
First Responder,
Let me apologize to you for the arrogance and self-aggrandizement on this blog. It actually makes me ashamed to admit to being here.
I can sit here and type that I am far more important than you are. It doesn’t make it so. I can be any thing/one I want behind the computer screen, from a little short, stocky man to Arnold Babeeee…..doesn’t make it so.
Thank you for what you do. Thank you for having the courage to come here and set the record straight. Many of your critics are folks out there who probably don’t have the qualifications to be one of Prince William’s finest.
I would say that the people who deal with this crap on a daily basis are those in the know. Those are the folks out there were the rubber meets the road. Don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise. Some of my very favorite people are or were county employees.
redawn said on 7 Jan 2008 at 6:59 pm:
officer Sanchez ???? Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!
1st responder said on 7 Jan 2008 at 7:10 pm:
That is why the police respond and cannot move the people off the property - because 7/11 says its ok to stay there.
Well, well, well. Me thinks that the Southland corp. has a choice…….. get rid of the “day laborers” or face a boycott of every 7-11 in the county. The illegal supporters and Latinos thought nothing of boycotting PWC businesses a few months back. Turn-about is fair play!
Anonymous,
They boycotted 7-11. Talk about the hand that feed you.
Lafayette said on 7 Jan 2008 at 7:53 pm:
Charlotte,
I’ve been taking pictures for month, and I have no confrontations with them. I do use extreme caution and never speak to them. I don’t speak their language and we are still in the U.S.A.! I had one time when several swarmmed my car the minute I pulled in the parking lot and want to know if I need workers. I told them I didn’t like ILLEGALS. The only thing we are tired of is the ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Apparently they are now getting desperate. No job, no money but plenty of time on their hands. I would be willing to bet we are going to see more and more of this confrontation, especially when the police will do nothing.
Good Time Charlie on 7 Jan 2008 at 8:13 pm:
AMEN! You hit the nail on the head.
I guess we have had a good preview on what is going to happen when the police portion of the county resolution kicks in. Absolutely nothing.
I do not know if it is the same here as it is/was in Fairfax. I was told years ago that the Judges in Fairfax WOULD NOT hear cases of loitering I was told that they felt that charging loitering was infringing on peoples civil rights. The police would however gratefully assist property owners in charging people with trespass if the owner or their representative of the property was willing to notify the people they wanted banned and then appear in court and testify if they came back.
redawn said on 7 Jan 2008 at 8:43 pm:
7-11 is making money somehow, someway that is all I have to say
Check it out and see what a 7-11 franchise costs the owner? The parent company could care less if nothing is sold for the month. The owner still has a minimum amount of money to pay each month to the the parent company plus a cut of the profits.
madmom said on 7 Jan 2008 at 9:04 pm:
Watch for a knotted curtian in a front window, and sometimes in a side window. Now there are more knotted curtains than propped open storm doors seen around town.
Might pass this info around at the meeting tomorrow. Interesting!
Greg, I am sorry you had such an experience with PWCPD.
You should definitely file complaints about this.
Everyone, please do not place yourself in the situations like I have been reading about. Let’s get organized on this and hopefully no one will get hurt!
__________________________________________________________
I’m responding to both posts about the day-labor sights with this:
When the Herndon people (read George Taplin and associates) did this in Herndon the rules were set and the project was orderly and civil. The volunteers showed up on the public sidewalk, most armed with cameras and hopefully in force (more than one) usually four or more. It was not done every day as there were truly just a few diehards that habitually showed up. Once a week was effective, not always the same weekday.
There were never harsh words exchanged with anyone, stern sometimes but not harsh or rude. When a worker walked past us, we greeted the individual with kind words (in English). I never witnessed any act even close to violent. I was however always vigilant.
The primary target for the cameras was the contractor who came to employ these people. Every effort was made to be as obvious as possible that the contractor’s trucks, license plates, signs, etc were recorded.
When asked whom the recorded images and info were for, the normal response was that the collected information would be turned over to ICE, IRS, any organization that sounded like it would impress the target.
Remember, if the contractors do not come, there will be no laborers.
What actually happened with the pictures was that they remained personal property and you can do whatever you feel you must, being careful to protect yourself and the participants working with you from any claims of wrongdoing.
This was simple, effective and legal. We did get harassed somewhat by the police from time to time, but if you follow the rules and stay legal no one can do anything to you!
This approach brought international press coverage.
Patty said on 7 Jan 2008 at 10:26 pm:
So if you have any advice as to how we can get PWC police to enforce loitering laws I would love to here it.
Get a COP who cares and will enforce the law and not worry about how the public perceives him.
Dolph………..1st responders facts are wrong. That’s a problem. If he is a police officer he should simply know the simple facts behind a code section which patrol officers should be enforcing everyday. He is misleading citizens. I spent more holidays, nights, weekends, & scheduled off days wearing a badge in PWC than any current uniformed officer you will meet responding to these calls. I know the inner workings and personnel of the department, and the politics behind the decision-making. I’ve been involved in more uses of force than any other officer in my district the years I worked in the patrol division. I patrolled areas which my peers were afraid to follow.
I’m telling you this because we are living in dangerous times that call for serious leadership. If we continue to have a Police Chief that is afraid to deal with minority involved crimes because it portrays a “image of racism” we will all suffer the consequences.
It probably doesn’t occur to you that the record level of foreclosures in PWC are being purchased by investors, and being turned to low income rentals. It is a matter of time before PWC has zip codes that will become slum areas.
If you want to improve your situation I suggest you work with the businesses that have day laborers loitering, and have them post “No Loitering” signs. Continue to contact public safety communications and demand the police respond and enforce the law. If you want to get Charlie Deane off his ass you need to write to the editor of the local papers, and the Washington Post. He is very paranoid about what he reads in print, and his policy decisions will change after print media begins to question his policies. He does not think internet blogs pose a threat to him.
Patty,
I wish I had a simple answer for you. Charlie Deane does not support enforcement measures involving illegal immigration. Because of this his rank and file will continue to enforce only crimes in which enforcement doesn’t appear to target minorities. If citizens continue to complain about these day-laboring loitering incidents, pressure might change the department’s approach. But without letters to the editor it will never get done. Continue to address officers responding & refusing to enforce the law. It will frustrate Charlie Deane when he reads it in the papers………he hates it!
Charlie Deane is WEAK on drug enforcement (using the biggest yes man in the department RICHARD CUNDIFF as the supervisor of a small time hit-and-run operation), and immigration. It is a matter of time before narcotics traffic begins at these standing areas because the police are not stopping any illegal activity they are observing at these locations. Patty you are correct to be concerned. Violent crime always occurs where people are allowed to loiter unchecked. Try contacting the Crime Prevention Bureau and ask them to work with the businesses where the loitering is occuring. They will act as a liason between the business and the Patrol Division.
But the most effective thing we could all do is contact our District Supervisors and demand that they get tough with Charlie Deane on this issue. Without the C.O.P. being pro-enforcement……….it will be a tough struggle changing the response of his officers. Charlie Deane answers to the BOCS not the voters. He doesn’t care what voters think if it has no influence on his control of the day-to-day operations of the department. Lost votes because the C.O.P. will not enforce the law will get the BOCS on Deane’s case.
Charlie Deane only listens when the majority of the BOCS is pissed at him, or the local papers print unkind words about his department. I think you need to do both.
Just a thought. If you are planning to enter a dangerous situation and you are armed, and you have to defend yourself with said firearm, the resulting investigation will be asking why you placed yourself in such a situation…..Second, for that flasher at the window: pepper spray to the genitals……Third, I like the 7-11 boycott idea.
I just got on-line. Let me see if I understand this correctly…. a Latino loiters in a day-labor center and exposes himself to a female … we’re told it is “cultural” - their culture . Ummmmm, and it is overlooked by the police. If an American exposes himself, it is “indecent exposure” and an arrest is made. This is a continuous slap in the face to American Society that those who come to our country to better themselves supposedly, are being allowed to bring our culture down to their level, the level they were supposedly trying to escape from, and our law enforcement is allowing it to happen. Just another crime they are allowed to get away with.
GT Charlie 2330, great post!
Another scary thing about this is when you mix Deane with Skinner!
Skinner seems to answer to NO ONE. Not even the MC Council.
He supports the illegals every chance he gets.
We have a very steep climb to get to the top of all this.
Thanks Archie……I’ve been busy lately and haven’t had time to keep up with the posts. When I was in public service I worked as hard as I could because I thought the people paying me deserved it. I wish I could say I was rewarded for my efforts but it only brought resentment from Charlie Deane. When I arrived at PWCPD I was surrounded by several street officers like myself. Aggressive on crime, and respectful to the taxpayers. I believe criminals feared us, and citizens respected us. Slowly……..Charlie Deane stole our pride, sense of humor, and devotion to the department.
I resent Charlie Deane for what he has done to the department, and several friends who I always felt were good people, and great cops who he went out of his way to force out of the department. If you think I have an ax to grind…………yes I do. I hate him more than anyone I have known in my lifetime.
I feel like I’m still serving the people by giving you an insiders view of what I experienced working for him. Hopefully you folks are starting to see I’m not just a bitter person. I too share your frustration at the lack of response we get from this police department to just solve simple everyday crime.
“Let me apologize to you for the arrogance and self-aggrandizement on this blog. It actually makes me ashamed to admit to being here. ”
Dolph,
Why are you apologizing to “1st Responder”? If anyone played the “I am important” card first, it was he/she when trying to discredit Batsons assertion that the police could/should enforce the law if they wanted to. Where’e the praise of Good Time Charlie? He seems to have his facts straight. From where I sit, it appears that Batson and Good Time were just repsonding to a poke from 1st. While they did treat 1st responder a little roughly, he did IMHO have it coming.
Good Time Charlie,
Nah, living over here in Sudley/Westgate I never noticed those foreclosures. (best Goofy laugh). I am not a neophyte to Prince William County.
I simply do not like putting people down without cause. If you disagree with someone, argue the issue. Leave the personal, big-assing attacks out of the conversation. If First Responder is wrong….point out where using facts.
You sound like you have an ax to grind with the county also. I have not always been happy with the way Charlie Dean has handled things during his tenure in Prince William County, but I will not use his staff or officers as the vehicle to voice that displeasure. I do understand chain of command. I also understand that there are bad cops. I would file a complaint in a New York Minute. I do not assume all LEOs are bad apples. Benefit of the doubt given here.
Bernie on the watch,
I apologized to First Responder because he/she is a first responder. It is real easy for me to sit behind my nice safe computer screen and second guess that person. I do not like the tone seen here of ‘you are just a cop, ” I make more money than you do,’ blah blah blah.
Now lets see, why might First Responder be a little testy? Could it be that yesterday, at least on BVBL, all PW cops came under fire with no way to respond or defend themselves? From where I sit, it looks very much like many people here see our officers as their personal servants rather than the fine individuals that most are.
LEOs and other responders have to please everyone. A complaint from the illegal community is just as powerful as a complaint from the legal communtiy when it comes to someone’s record. Therefore, it is probably best to do what the powers that be tell you to do.
I encourage anyone who has videos and/or photos of assaults on person or property to send them to our Senator Webb, with a description of the event and the action (or inaction) taken by police.
Senator Webb is convinced illegal aliens are “kind and gentle spirits who are only trying to make a living and take care of their families.”
Bear in mind, Senator Webb has never mentioned any gatherings of laborers near his home, nor does he frequent establishments where they “hang out.”
FYI: No one cares about the “mill arounds” - they aren’t headline news. Laborers rocking cars and exposing themselves - that’s news! Channel 9 likes to get their cameras on-site for these events, so put them on your speed-dial.
Dolph,
Very good points in your post above. I did not mean to diminish the tough job that Law Enforcement Officers have to do, and I commend any one who does this job, including “1ST Responder”. I will say that Bernie is correct. “1ST” dismissed my comments out of hand, and I got the message “you are just a civillian, so you don’t know what’s going on”. I may have unintentionally returned the sentiment in-kind. I should not have, as my argument (how franchises work) should have been sufficient to counter his ( we can’t do anything because 7-11 corporate won’t press charges). I don’t fault the patrol officers. I fault the Chief and hs administration. He sets policy. If he told his officers to aggressively deal with loitering, it would be dealt with.
I also think you have a very good point about “1ST” defending the department and his fellow officer’s dedication when questioned. The motivation is clear, but the bias is clear as well. However, “1ST” has just as much right to express his or her opinion as the rest of us.
Bats,
And I probably came across a little harsh also. Sorry.
I have a real bad habit of defending the underdog.
Our cops are caught up between pleasing the public, the powers that be, and Lord knows who else, all while facing life-threatening danger every time they walk out the door. I would not have their job but am real glad they are out there doing it!
Keep up the fight with policy!
Well, I find 7-11’s too expensive for my wallet and have always gone somewhere else. Slurpees are bad for your teeth anyway.
Only one local candidate last fall put forward a plan, published in the Potomac News, to hold the PWCPD accountable for enforcing our littering and loitering ordinances.
Lafayette,
Looks like we had a gang tagging last night at the corner of Greenview Ln. and Strasburg St. White spray pain on the street. Who is called to report it and to have it removed?
Dolph,
I have no ax to grind with the rank and file members. They are only an extension of the C.O.P. I once heard Deane remark that police officers today do not have any loyalty. He has never understood that loyalty works both ways, and when the average employee feels screwed and unappreciated they will find employment elsewhere. That was why I made the remark about the clueless and unemployed wanting to become an officer in PWCPD. If you look at bonuses offered by the county………….officers receive separate retention bonuses for graduating from the academy, completing the field training program, spanish fluency, and retention supplements for every year you stay with the department. And last but not least …….additional retirement supplements for 20 yrs in a hazardous duty position. There was no such compensation offered when Deane became the C.O.P.
Other departments in the area are not offering such retention compensation to my knowledge. Academy instructors were told to stop coaching recruits to find employment in other departments while giving examples of past treatment of officers by the Deane administration. I have been told by department recruiters the academy completion rate is currently 50%. That is alarming. While I was at the department I watched completion rates go from 100% to 90%. Most of these recruits are leaving by their own choice.
My choice of words needed explaining when I made the remark about hiring earlier. I too support the rank and file. But 1st responders facts are still wrong.
Michael said on 7 Jan 2008 at 9:15 pm:
“I suggest everyone start arming themselves. Here’s why.”
Not a bad idea Michael. Heres why.
Pursuant to §18.2 of the Code of Virginia
Virginia does not require firearm registration nor is it necessary to obtain a Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP)before carrying a firearm or other such weapon openlyabout the person except where prohibited by statute (i.e. Air Carrier Airport Terminals, any courthouse, any Federal property, etc.). In Virginia, one may openly carry a handgun in plain sight (holstered, of course) with no license. Loaded handguns on the seat or dashboard of a vehicle, in plain view while in a vehicle are fine. I frequently visit 7-ll’s all over the county and have NEVER had a problem. For the most part when I pull up (and I park as close to the illegals’ side as possible) and step from my vehicle they begin to approach as if looking for work, but then tend to make a hasty retreat. I in no way threaten them or make a threatening move but smile to myself as I stroll on in. Of course this is easier when it’s warm outside. During the winter I carry concealed. With a permit of course.
My point to this is if I were going to take pictures of illegals / animals I would make sure that I was protected. If nothing more than it would be a deterrent to them approaching me or my vehicle if my ‘companion’ were in plain view on the seat or dash. I don’t go hunting with a camera, but if I did I would still be armed because of the nature of the “beast”.
Charlotte - 8:40am
BINGO.
Just for the record, Southland Corporation no longer has any ownership stake in 7-Eleven Corp. It is indeed owned by a Japanese firm, but all US operations are headquartered in Dallas. The majority of stores are franchises, but the corporation owns several locations as well.
The reason you see stores across the street from each other or next door is because a former gas station was granted a franchise next to another existing franchise or corporate owned location. This poor planning goes back to when Southland owned the operation. I seem to recall the company filed for bankruptcy back in the early 90’s when owned by Southland.
Just like BOA, WalMart, and any other large services company, 7-Eleven is making money from illegals. Anyone who has been in a store lately can see that an attempt has been made to cater to Latino customers. From ethnic pastries to Modelo, money orders, and in some locations money wires, this is a business model that 7-Eleven has pursued. I think they are stuck with tolerating day laborers, because to do otherwise would drive away this customer base they have worked to establish.
I would still sue 7-11. They are responsible for what goes on in their parking lot.
Greg, concerning your added note above…nope, I’m not any of the photographers who have followed you. Stake-outs are boring . I prefer to set up my own tableaus.
In my opinion anyone taking a gun to a 7-11 in order to protect him/herself while photographing loiterers is already knowingly placing him/herself in harm’s way. I’m sure police officers who have to diffuse these situations just love being placed in that position. [/sarcasm]
Vigilant1 on 8 Jan 2008 at 8:41 am:
Lafayette,
Tagging reported above may in fact be something put there by VDOT or the water authority. There is an M. followed by an arrow and then a U.
M.^U.
V1,
Which tagging? I haven’t read through this whole thread yet. I’ve not seen it. If you noticed it, why haven’t you called, oh Vigilant1? (sarcasm). Please, don’t take that wrong. Will go check on it right now.
Vigilant1,
I think that is something done by one of the utility companys.
Anyways, the paint job and print is way to neat.lol
Would you want to participate in a Neighborhood Watch?
I couldn’t resist with such a good name. I’m sure glad someone talked you into picking a name.haha
GTC-I feel you. I hope you’re enjoying retirement. I’ve got 11 years to go with Uncle Sugar. We are sick of Bush and Chertoff. I left local a long time ago (Alexandria Sheriff’s Office) and became a GS’er so I could keep a job w/o fear of reprisal. Thanks for sticking with it as long as you did. I’m sure that the vast majority of line officers at PWC PD are consciencious and want to do their jobs. How come Sanchez isn’t a Lt.? Sounds like he’s spouting the party line. Keep up the blogging. These folks need the inside scoop to scrape the county up off it’s tail and get these illegals out.
GTC-P.S. Our young officers are leaving faster than we can train them, too. 74 every two weeks, nationwide. Chertoff could care less, he thinks that the hiring pool is bottomless.
Lafayette said on 8 Jan 2008 at 10:29 am:
Vigilant1,
I think that is something done by one of the utility companys.
Thank you for checking. Perhaps I should have taken a closer look when I spotted it. Usually the utility co’s use red, blue or yellow. I am, as one might say, on constant vigulance in the neighborhood. Don’t miss too much. Saw a Latino woman with a child walking up the street about an hour ago with a Khol’s shopping card using it as a baby stroller. Was very tempted to call the police but after seeing the results of yesterday’s happenings at the 7-11, I would be wasting my time. Thanks again!
Why buy a stroller, when you help yourself to one for NOTHING! It is against Va Code to remove shopping carts from the parking lots. I learned this from the signs posted at that darn Giant at WestGate. See the pictures below. You have to zoom I believe to read the code. I can’t imagine the ole PWPD would like to be getting calls for stolen shopping carts. Did you see my pictures of that “shopping cart graveyard” in between Coverstone Apts. and Home Depot shopping center.
Waste of your time, indeed. Just keep being vigilant and taking notes. I’m sure you are already doing that.
Now, how about an organized Neighborhood Watch? I’m pretty sure this already a pretty good “unofficial” one in place.
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2064002460102412507XTXFWz
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2064002460102412507XTXFWz
Lafayette on 8 Jan 2008 at 11:13 am:
Yes, I have seen the “graveyard” photos. Unfortunately, there are no bodies to join them. lol I stopped shopping at that Home Depot and Wal-mart because of the muggings (in broad daylight) that occur there. I drive down to the one in Warrenton to get away from the rif raf (if you know what I mean.) Post a notice when and organized watch comes about.
Anyone else hear this woman’s account at Citizens’ Time?
It sounded as though she worked for a Federal agency that didn’t have a coke machine in its entire building. So she went to a couple local 7-11s (some 20 minutes away?) that had loiterers. She didn’t feel comfortable at these 7-11s because of the loiterers but she went back with her camera??? She was told to take pictures by the police?? But now they’re not interested in her pictures?? Maybe the police could have done something about the indecent exposure if she had identified the guy. Looking at the situation, it’s like a divorce…he said/she said, both sides with an agenda. If she told the police that she was there photographing for Help Save Manassas, she’s got an obvious agenda.
So, because she has an ‘obvious’ agenda that is apparently counter to the PWCPD’s agenda, they don’t enforce the law? What kind of crap is that?
Anonymoustoo-so, by that logic, she asked to be flashed and assaulted, right? Because she ‘obviously has an agenda’?
I suggest you flood Corey Stewart’s office with e-mail, faxes, phone calls, letters, and tell him to visit the different 7-11 sites you are discussing so he can see for himself what goes on.
He’s in charge of PWC, isn’t he, and he is the one you turned yourselves inside out to get elected; and he is the one who voted against designating funds for whatever you call your aim, isn’t he? Why don’t you put some responsibility on the Chairman of the County Board of Supervisors? Why?
You did everything for him to get him elected, now it’s payback time! He owes you.
TDB and Johnson, those are your opinions and logic, not mine.
So how much of my tax money are you vigilantes going to waste by dragging the county police into your confrontations?
You guys amaze me. Why do you go out PROVOKING innocent hard working people? Wosre, you just ASSUME they are all illegal. Theyr may very well be legal for all you know!!
What if they stalked you at YOUR job taking YOUR picture??
What you say and do is outright RACISM> HISPANIC= ILLEGAL. This is wrong and cruel.
These people are here because out economy obviously has need for them. The American economy NEEDS these workers. Stop harassing them, stop threatening to arm yourself, and go find work for gods sake–who has the time to harass these innocent workers?!? You should follow their example and contribute to society. Dios Mio!!
anonymoustoo,
If the law is being broken, how is it a waste of tax payers money to have it enforced? We need to get the small crime out of the way first. Once that is done, we can move to the next rung of the ladder.
Start small and get these people off of the lots. I believe if the police are called enough times, they will start to drive by so these people will not feel comfortable being there. They will eventually move on. The housing starts are real low right now so there will be more of the day laborers on the street. By initiating the fines for hiring ILLEGAL aliens, this will help them self deport from the area and solve this and many other problems.
UNmasked,
You are such a blow hard. The US does not NEED these people. There are plenty of LEGAL US workers out there. Once the companies are fined for hiring ILLEGALS, they will have to find work elsewhere, why not start to move back to their homeland? The companies that hire these people NEED them, not the US. They need the cheap labor.
Innocent? They are far from innocent if they are here ILLEGALLY.
So unmasked, you are for placing your brothers in a slave class? That is exactly what you are doing by encouraging this type of behavior. They must really love you, oh wait, they probably do not know you are here huh? I bet if they understood they were being treated as a slave class, they would want the higher wages that US workers deserve. The US abolished slavery LOOOONNGGG ago!!!
Why doesn’t she bring in a small cooler with a coke from home and some ice. You know, brown bag the coke. Consider spending money on GAS to go to 7-11 (known overpricing) to buy a coke.
She doesn’t need a camera, she need financial guidance…
UnMasMexican! said on 8 Jan 2008 at 5:41 pm:
What if they stalked you at YOUR job taking YOUR picture??
Hola! They are not working they are LOITERING, and yes it is AGAINST THE LAW!!
Howdy Witchy!!! That was a good point I missed in my post.
/\/\3|)iç 64
Just doing my part.
I am a GOOD witch, afterall.
Great post to the “unmasked” one there.
“Why doesn’t she bring in a small cooler with a coke from home and some ice. You know, brown bag the coke.”
Perhaps because she feels that she has at LEAST as much right, perhaps more, to be able to enter a 7-11 without being subjected to “loiterers” who present a clear and present threat to law-abiding customers! One Voice, I often agree with you, and most certainly respect your opinion even when I don’t, but that comment of yours was truly absurd…unless you forgot your sarcasm alert.
“These people are here because out economy obviously has need for them.”
UnMasMexican, these people are here because their governments obviously have NO need for them! They do everything they can to encourage their poor and illiterit to cross our border, short of running a free chauffeuring service for them…which they might start doing if that North American Union ever becomes reality!
UnMas us playing the ol’ race card again. If these are not illegals why are they behaving like savages? Icky perverts.
Well, I was sort of sarcastic. But the waste of money part, that hit me hard. Do you realize what that stinkin’ coke cost??!!!
Of course she has the right to spend all her disposable income on cokes and gas, that is her choice and I defend do defend it. I knew I would get gigged on that after I read it…….. just got carried away thinking how much she spends in a week, month, year….thanks for realizing I was being a bit sarcastic!
corr — “defend her right to do it”. I STILLl can’t get it straight for thinking of the money spent.
AWCheney–shocker that you can’t spell “illiterate.”
TO ALL: AGAIN, the simple question. Do you know ANY of these people were illegal??? NO!!! Racist assumptions. Shame on you all!!
I do beg your pardon for my haste and lack of proofreading…you wouldn’t want me to go back through the comments and pull up your exceptional level of literacy, would you UMM?
you spelled “illiterate” wrong–that is HILARIOUS!!! maybe YOU need an adult English class, hahahahahhahahahahaha!
AND AGAIN>>>>note, you have no answer…
TO ALL: AGAIN, the simple question. Do you know ANY of these people were illegal??? NO!!! Racist assumptions. Shame on you all!!
Just admit you are all racists and feel ok about it. Embrace who you are!!
“TO ALL: AGAIN, the simple question. Do you know ANY of these people were illegal??? NO!!! Racist assumptions. Shame on you all!!”
Hey UnMasKnuckehead….This ain’t about them being hispanic…ITS ABOUT THEM LOITERING, HARRASSING PEOPLE, PISSING AND CRAPPING IN PUBLIC AND NOT PAYING TAXES ON THE WAGES THEY EARN UNDER THE TABLE!
If they weren’t illegal, they wouldn’t have to stand in front of a 7-11 looking for work. You don’t see blacks or caucasians doing it. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE LEGAL!
Fact: The majority of ILEGALS in PWC are of HISPANIC ORIGIN (estimated at 30% at a minimum). These are the ones the contractors are picking up.
Question: Would you be willing to put real money on the percentage of day laborers standing in front of 7-11 who are here illegally is at a minumum 40%?
Since you are so concerned about how your race is percieved, why don’t you carry your smart ass down to the 7-11 on coverstone and rt 1, and tell your countrymen that it ain’t cool to expose yourself to people, piss and crap in public, and sit around getting drunk because they are just feeding the stereotype that they are all illegal, un-educated and uncivilized?
And please don’t be surprised when one of them waves his mule at you, for “Harrassing them”
Bats - I think you make enough good points about their obviously illegal behavior that it is not necessary to open yourself up for argument by suggesting that they are illegal aliens. We need to continue to use the existing laws with known facts. What they are doing is illegal that’s the fact. Who they are is supposition and you could be right, but “supposition” and “could” are still in the equation. UMM can not argue about their illegal behavior.
Or throwing in the mule, unless you meant the shoe?!
UMM,
You know, I don’t go to 7-11 and haven’t for about 3 years because of the cruddy day laborers hanging out there making lewd comments to and about women. I don’t give a rats rear end if they are legal or illegal. Too many have pig behavior for me to want to be around it.
If that is racist or prejudiced, tough. I say it without apology. If white people are there acting like that, then they are pigs also. (and I have seen a few)
Well, I’ve got an idea…perhaps someone should go to the 7-11(s) driving a truck and ASK if anyone has a green card or is a citizen, hmm?
Oh yeah…don’t forget the backup/chase car with all the photographic equipment and recording devices.
Well, if the feds are slowly peeling their fingers from that authority through the 287(g) program, I doubt regular folks would get very far.
Your suggestion is the exact authority that is being given to those that attend 287(g) training.
I like the complaint cards that Ms. Wood(s) attached last night. They should be flooded with them - for just two stores. Using the resources available.
http://nationalwriterssyndicate.com/content/view/304/2/
http://www.ocregister.com/news/laborers-rocha-says-1953259-day-private
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20040914-1303-ca-abductiontrial.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63469-2004Sep30.html?sub=AR
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200111/ai_n9013750/pg_1
http://www.daylaborers.org/index.htm
http://www.daylaborers.org/html/photos.htm
Just as a matter of actually seeing if anyone approaches for a job, One Voice…call it research. Do it at all the “day labor sites” around the county simultaneously and we might get some empirical data.
Okay, research. You need a truck that says Juniors Landscaping Service first.
But if you wouldn’t mind just sending in those complaint forms while conducting your research to kind of balance………
I think Batson stumbled upon an interesting proposition. UMM should go to both of these stores and conduct a poll. Since he is of Mexican descent and seems to speak spanish, he could approach these gentlemen and make the request. In the interest of proving us to be racists, he can ask each of these honest souls to show some proof of legal residency and citizenship.
I would even be willing to buy a round of Big Gulps for all these upstanding citizens that participate in the survey, provided that they don’t show me “el wienero”.
I would love to hear the 911 call that would follow, assuming UMM could get to his cell phone in time.
You people spend all day long, every day, go round and round on the same issue…don’t you have jobs? Lives? Are you all retired or unemployed? Why are you so obsessed with Latino immigrants?? Is it that your previously anglo community has changed, and that’s hard to take? How can you live with so much hate twisting in your gut????
Charlotte…………we just have no tolerence for law breaking individuals.
But Charlie, you mean specifically Latinos who have entered illegally, not ALL lawbreakers. You have extra hatred for the former, but I’m sure quite a few of you are lawbreakers yourselves…speeders? Jaywalkers? Any tax cheaters among you?
GTC,
She like so many others. They just DO NOT get it. I wasn’t around last night. I was very pleased to see your comments as always. Glad to see you are back. Please, keep those posts coming.
corr She(Charlotte) IS like so many others.
UnMasMexican at 5:41…..provoking hard working innocent people.
Loitering by county code section is a jailable offense, and indecent exposure if convicted requires you to register as a sex offender if convicted. I’m somewhat slow following your point of view so help me out with this. How are these people innocent?
For the record…..I could care less what immigration status they have when they commit these type of street crimes. But all legal residents I know (including hispanic friends) won’t shed any tears if the incident leads to them being deported and separated from their families.
And for the record……….stop trying to piss on our 1st amendment rights. That would be free speech since legal issues aren’t your strong point.
Police work teaches you never to waste your breath arguing with drunks and mentally handicapped individuals.
Lafayette, you like so many others just DO NOT get it that some of us see the humanity in illegal immigrants, understand that it is not a black and white issue, that those people are sneaking in–true–but for the privilege of doing our manual and service labor. You call them criminals, but do criminals come in to help BUILD the country rather than destroy it? Many of us just don’t feel the hatred that you do, and are disgusted by the way you talk about other human beings. For some reason, using the term “illegal” makes you think they are less than human. So no, I DO NOT get YOU.
Charlotte,
You are sadly mistaken. I don’t think an ILLEGAL is a less human by any means. I’ve never spouted hatred. You just came on to the scene here, unless you’ve changed your name.
The ILLEGALS are the criminals. They have broken our federal laws by their illegal and unlawful entry into OUR GREAT NATION. Last time I checked breaking federal laws would make one a criminal. Wouldn’t you say?
I’ve never put this up bvbl. You need to take a look at this and let me know where you hear hatred, and take a look at what we have to put up with here in WestGate.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1102/cover.html#
BTW-It’s no secrect here I am Chris Pannell.
UnMasMexican,
You have ignored those of us who have directed our distain towards unacceptable behavior. I personally don’t care what the race or what the status is, unacceptable behavior is exactly that. Unacceptable.
Certainly you do not expect me to excuse unacceptable behavior just because someone is Latino, do you? To me, that is just plain wrong.
Lafayette, I have been reading this blog for several months, but last night was the first I have ever written anything. I just can’t take it anymore. I was generalizing with that “you”, referring to the general tone of so many entries. I looked at your link to see what it was, and will read it tomorrow (it’s late now). Yes, breaking federal laws makes one a criminal, but these people are contributing positively to the country, so it is an ambiguous issue.
Lafayette, one more question before I turn off the computer…do you actually know any UNDOCUMENTED immigrant on a personal level? My theory is that “you”–meaning the general contributors to this blog–do not actually know anyone whom you are blasting day in and day out. You have an “us” versus “them” mentality.
Charlotte,
Sweet dreams…I hope to see you tomorrow. If you’ve been around several months then I’m sure you’ve noticed I’m not just a bunch of hot air. I am making a POSITIVE change in my neighborhood. Trust me, I am not the enemy, but they are out there.
Charlotte,
I know undocumented immigrants on a personal level. Lots of them, in fact. What is your point? I don’t think I have an ‘us’ vs ‘them’ mentality at all.
Say what you will. No “us” versus “them” mentality here.
It’s LEGAL versus ILLEGAL. Yes, I hate to say it, but due to my neighbors I do and have known ILLEGAL ALIENS, an “undocumented worker” is rhetoric. I don’t spout rhetoric.
None us know who is legal and who is illegal for a fact unless they admit it. We can base are assumptions on behavior and activity we see. Illegal is just that illegal.
Charlotte,
Above comment was to you.
Charlotte, you are living in a dream world if you think the “contributions” of illegal aliens are positive. Either that, or your one of those fortunate folks that aren’t suffering the impacts of illegal aliens unlawfully residing within your community, in which case you should consider yourself fortunate, but generally ignorant of what folks here are talking about. I sincerely hope it’s the latter.
Those of us on the front lines of this problem are dealing with an astounding degradation of our public safety and quality of life, crazy distortions in the labor market, gang activity and more. There is no ambiguity at all about what happens when illegal aliens invade our neighborhoods from our perspective. The topic of this thread is but one example of the horror that is delivered upon law abiding citizens when a community comes under this kind of assault.
Unless you can appreciate to some degree what we are going through here, your appeals will never connect with those whom you are directing them. Claiming the problems we face on a daily basis don’t really exist doesn’t get a whole lot of acceptance from us.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1936539/posts
From Dolph:
“Certainly you do not expect me to excuse unaceptable behavior just because someone is Latino, do you? To me, that is plain wrong.”
Hear, Hear! and Thank. You. Dolph.
Some, it would seem, are worried that judgement will come by the content of character and NOT by the color of skin, race , ethnicity or country of origin.
The irony is acute: When racial/ethnic profiling is used to provide accommodation, service sanctuary and the right to act with impunity.
When UMM gets up on his high horse to decry racism … what he is in fact demanding is racism, exclusivity and the rights of some to hold up their ethnicity as a shield, as a free pass to do as they like.
“Greg L said on 9 Jan 2008 at 2:06 am:
Charlotte, you are living in a dream world if you think the “contributions” of illegal aliens are positive.”
Greg,
Please don’t fault Charlotte. She’s just reacting in accordance with the new operation memo, put out by the illegal alien lobby:
FROM: ILLEGAL ALIEN LOBBY CONTROL (IALC)
TO: ALL LIBERAL ILLEGAL ALIEN APOLOGISTS
SUBJ: TERM CHANGE ALERT
1. When debating rule-of-law and anti-illegal alien activists or when commenting to the press if confronted with the fact that illegal aliens have broken the law and continue to do so by residing in this country illegally, it is advised that you no longer respond with “It’s a complicated issue”, as we have determined that this has been ineffective at deflecting the question.
2. Henceforth, when confronted with the tough question outlined in section 1, liberal illegal-alien apologists should now respond with the phrase, “it is an ambiguous issue”. An example of how to properly use the phrase is included below:
“Yes, breaking federal laws makes one a criminal, but these people are contributing positively to the country, so it is an ambiguous issue.”
3. Be further advised, when the use of this phrase appears to also be ineffective, you should fall back to the tried and true tactic of calling the opponent a “racist”, “bigot” or “xenophobe”.
UMM,
I challenge you to take a Spanish speaking individual with you and confront these day laborers about their status. Even if you get a we are here legally, I want them to provide proof. If they are, then ok, I have no issue with someone looking for work, but if they are not, I want you to come back and give us an apology for spouting your crap about how they are oppressed.
______________________________
Charlotte,
You obviously have not been reading very closely the past few months. I have seen many posts here that do not discuss any kind of hatred to these people. I see posts from people that are tired of being taken advantage of. Please pull up the statistics from many sources that show the negative impact of ILLEGAL aliens on local and state gov’t. California is in the BILLIONS right now. I am an equal opportunity person, I do not distinguish Hispanic or Italian or German or Korean, They are all ILLEGAL aliens. ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL. I can not believe you support having these ILLEGAL aliens treated like slaves. They are paid well below the average wage and you condone this? The US abolished slavery a long time ago!!!
**to = toward**
Yeah, right. Except when spanish speakers use WIC funds in grocery stores…… C’mon.
anonymous said on 9 Jan 2008 at 8:22 am,
Nah, I don’t mind that if the infant is a US citizen. I know lots of folks do mind but I do not. I see nutrition and education as investments in the future.
I do not like my neighborhood being trashed and I don’t like NOT being able to go to certain stores because of men who are rude, crude and socially unacceptable. I can live with the store issue. It is a little bit more difficult to control the impact of immigration on your neighborhood. For the record, I don’t KNOW if it is legal or illegal immigration….I just know that there are people tearing down the established community standards.
Charlotte said on 8 Jan 2008 at 9:45 pm:
You people spend all day long, every day, go round and round on the same issue…don’t you have jobs? Lives? Are you all retired or unemployed? Why are you so obsessed with Latino immigrants?? Is it that your previously anglo community has changed, and that’s hard to take? How can you live with so much hate twisting in your gut????
Seems like you have a lot of free time as well, considering you have been reading the blog for months. We do have jobs and contribute positively to society. Furthermore, we love this area and it’s our home. The community has degraded because of the influx of illegal aliens. Were they Irish (which is my ancestry) I would be equally as concerned. In fact, the recent blogs about the Irish illegals in San Francisco bothered me more than anything I have read on this blog. Those folks should be the first to be deported, in my book.
The problem will be fixed, and the label of racist or hatemonger doesn’t stick.
UnMasMexican! said on 8 Jan 2008 at 5:41 pm:
You guys amaze me. Why do you go out PROVOKING innocent hard working people?
How much do they get an hour for loitering at the local 7-11? No job but they gots their cell phones!
Anon,
Hiding are we? Be an adult and come up with a name. It isn’t that hard.
I have no issue with people using WIC that are here LEGALLY, whether they speak Spanish or Korean.
I welcome my fellow LEGAL citizens with open arms, no matter their color or gender or nationality.
Here here jfk!!!
I do not discriminate when it comes to ILLEGAL aliens. ALL ILLEGAL aliens should be deported no matter where they are from. I have said that all along.
MEDIC - you tell so many stories YOU can’t keep them straight. Last week you complained about people speaking spanish in grocery stores using welfare - you assumed they must be illegal and then told us what a shame it was about the vets and the homeless. Just like anonymous said.
Try to remember what you say to everyone so you can attempt to be consistant.
I am keeping the story straight. Read the post.
I have an issue with those using WIC that are here ILLEGALLY. Just so happens those in front of me were speaking Spanish. It doesn’t matter what language they speak, if they are here ILLEGALLY and use the benefits for those here LEGALLY, then I have an issue.
I will repost so you can reread it:
\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 9 Jan 2008 at 9:29 am:
Anon,
Hiding are we? Be an adult and come up with a name. It isn’t that hard.
I have no issue with people using WIC that are here LEGALLY, whether they speak Spanish or Korean.
I welcome my fellow LEGAL citizens with open arms, no matter their color or gender or nationality.
If you want to call someone out and flame them, be sure to have the facts straight.
J-Lo,
Here is the post I posted.
http://www.bvbl.net/index.php/2008/01/03/open-thread-5/#comment-47527
Please show me where I said Spanish.
# /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 4 Jan 2008 at 10:15 am:
You can afford all of those things, Patriot, when you do not pay taxes. Remember roughly 25% of our pay goes to pay taxes, which part goes to support people on the welfare dole.
I have no quarrel giving people assistance for a hump or bad times in their life. I have been there myself, but I used the assistance until I got back on my feet. I WORKED to get back on my feet. The problem I have is with those who use welfare as an only income and continue to have babies to get more.
I, like Lafayette, have stood behind people that didn’t speak very good English pull similar items from their cart. It upsets me that we have homeless on the streets, many veterans, that can’t get assistance, yet someone that breaks the law can get it. Am I the only one that has an issue with that?
__________________________
This is what happens when people ASSUME. I didn’t say a word about Spanish. You need to keep the sotories straight so YOU can be consistent.
Wrong post.
J-lo,
Please post the one you are referring to.
UnMasMexican- You are the racist. If you can’t see that, go back to Mexico and whine about being picked on. Nobody will care. In fact, deport yourself and denounce any connection that you have with the U.S.A. Enjoy the prosperity of the Mexican economy and the freedoms, protection and generosity of the myriad of social programs offered by your home country to it’s citizens. How do you not get this? Living in Mexico SUCKS. If it did not, you and the other 20 million would not be here. If Mexicans had any courage or fortitude, they would fight to raise their standard of living to match ours. WE DID. You will never be an American because you value being hispanic/latino more than being an American. Good luck to you!
Johnson,
You are just wasting bytes and time with him. He posts are useless and don’t warrant anymore of our time. He flies in to stir the pot and then leaves without any real substance to his debate. I am personally going to ignore anything he says. It will not provide the attention he seems to crave and eventually he will move along to another blog that will give him attention.
He = His
ACTIVATE THE IGNORE BUTTON.
Mine is on and working fine.
Still waiting J-lo. Please post the one you are referring to.
All-Apologies. Although I do enjoy a good rant.
No worries Johnson and it is your right to post to him if you desire. We are not trying to MAKE you stop posting. I was just making an observation of behavior which I have seen many times over the many years I have been blogging.
Medic 64 is right. UMM buzzes in, lands on everyone’s food, then flies away. He/she’s not worth the bytes or stress.
You are funny. You keep giving him what he is asking for.
J-Lo,
I am waiting for the post you referenced in your flame against me.
J-Lo, you still didn’t answer Medic 64. Could it be that you are UnoMasMexican operating under a new name?
jfk,
I love it when people come in and twist your words around and when you call them on it, they don’t seem to be able to respond. I responded with what I thought was the post referenced in the personal attack. I was told it wasn’t the one, so I am now waiting for the referenced post. STILL.
/\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k post award) said on 9 Jan 2008 at 1:14 pm:
I was told it wasn’t the one, so I am now waiting for the referenced post. STILL.
This time tomorrow you more than likely WILL STILL be waiting. Just more “baiting” and “pot-stirring”.
Good point Witchy!!! Fly in, stir the pot, pull posts in reference to the pot stirring and post them elsewhere saying we are hateful and bigoted without posting the original post to which the response was to.
I never called you hateful and bigoted. I called you funny.
J-Lo,
Does the shoe fit? If so, wear it. I never said J-lo comes in and stirs the pot……
I was not referring to you. Now, I am still waiting for the post you referenced in your personal attack towards me. If you can not post it here, then I would expect you to apologize for the personal attack. If you can not do that, then you are not a person of character that anyone here should respect.
Charlotte
Your inability to understand the distainment many here have for illegals blows my mind. I too have been lurking for months and after being run out of about three neighborhoods, I feel completely qualified to give you an answer. One of the neighborhoods was in Manassas (I now live in Herndon). This was about 10 years ago. This situation didn’t just start three years ago. It was obvious to me then what we were in for. We lived in the townhouses behind Prince Cole (I heard they renamed it–like that is going to do any good). After about three years we were ready to leave. They crowded into Prince Cole with all their junkyard wonder cars. Parked everywhere. They parked in our neighborhood when the owners of the vacant lot across the street put up no parking signs. That’s when all the fun started. They were caught shooting up in an abandoned school bus. The women were walking the street looking for work if you know what I mean. One day I was even caught up in a high-speed chase between the police and one of “them.” It really is “them” versus “us”. One day one of them was jumping from deck to deck running from the police. My daughter was in the kitchen when they jumped on our deck and it scared her to death. On another occasion someone from Prince Cole shot a gun out of their window toward our house. Our next door neighbor witnessed that. It got so bad that people moved out without selling their homes because most people were upside down on their loan. All the foreclosures made the home values fall and we couldn’t give our house away. We finally moved out anyway and rented to a bunch of young guys who trashed our house before we could finally sell it 3 years later. Now in Herndon, we live in a pretty good neighborhood but it is on the brink of decline too. The house across the street is owned by a Hispanic “slum lord” who is running a bunk house. There are people moving in and out of there constantly. I worked hard to buy my house, why would I want to embrace this third world lifestyle? They have forced us to live a life that is totally unthinkable in a country as great as this. I think what Greg said is probably true. You must be fortunate enough to not be subjected to as much as most on this blog. I breaks my heart and soul to see all of this. If that makes me a racist, fine with me. All I know, I never experienced any of this until this invasion took place. I don’t need to prove it to anyone. I have been living it for years and I have had enough. When I retire, I plan to do anything I can to volunteer my time for a cause our elected officials refuse to do anything about.
HadEnough re: what you said on 9 Jan 2008 at 6:53 pm:
Charlotte took her argument to the open thread…….
Charlotte said: “…. those people are sneaking in–true–but for the privilege of doing our manual and service labor….” and then you go on about the humanity of the whole situation from your view!
Well Charlotte,
I am at retirement age and I have spent my whole career doing “manual and service labor” because of the public school education I received. I am very fortunate that I have had the opportunity to work the jobs (some better than others) that I have (most recent one for 24 years).
I watch what comes in the door where I work (a major public transportation company) and it is unbelievable that the largest percentage of those taking the jobs (good jobs) in the US now are in the country for less then a few months and come from all over the world. Many speak very good English, and many speak little to none. That represents the ones coming here legally!
I have tolerance, and respect, for those who are doing this because they are doing it legally.
Add the illegal aliens and you have a bleak picture of a future for those American kids, especially the white males, who graduate from high school and for whatever reason do not go on to college. Those who need to get out into the workplace and do the manual and service labor. They are simply placed at the bottom of the list! Today, they are being placed behind those here illegally!
You can have all the compassion you wish for the illegal aliens “doing what we will not”, but do not condemn anyone for wanting to preserve our countries assets for our own children.
God bless Help Save Manassas, Help Save Virginia, Help Save The Old Dominion, and all the people who are putting forth the effort to salvage our country. I thank every one of you for trying to save our children’s future and their inheritance.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080110/METRO/617442437/1004
We’re not alone. BTW, this doesn’t happen in Hampton Roads.
But you know they are only here to work. The link shows the results of a study done of illegals and sex crimes:
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/homeland.php?id=1386104
To Had Enough and Archie,
No, I have not lived the situations you describe. But there must be another way to solve these problems without denigrating all Hispanics, and without forming groups with names like Help Save (whatever) From Hispanics. The last two words are not part of the official name, but that is what you really mean.
I suppose it is human nature, though, to react as you are doing, but I still think there must be a better way.
Charlotte
YOU are the one throwing Hispanic/Latino around. You are the trouble maker. I wish I could really cast spells, because I would sure enough cast one to make you DISAPPEAR.
Charlotte,
Do you really believe that immigrants entering our country illegally are:
(1) Planning to become citizens
(2) Pay their fair share of taxes
(3) Become proud members of community based organizations
(4) Integrate into our society accepting the values of our country
(5) Be willing to fight and die for the freedoms this country offer them
(6) Learn english
If someone enters our country with the intentions to fulfill these ideas I’m willing to accept them into my community.
But even you must admit, the reason someone enters our country breaking our federal laws is to avoid all of the above. Here is why hispanic people are entering our country according to my hispanic friends, co-workers, & clients:
(1) Escape poverty & find employment
(2) Support families in countries of origin
(3) Establish residence (without documentation) and assist family members into country illegally
(4) Escape dangerous conditions
(5) give birth to children for citizenship, and social assistance
This isn’t a list I created. This is the order which several legal residents working toward citizenship tell me are the motives for illegals entering our country. Even the most liberal viewed Americans must surely agree that this list has few if any benefits to out society.
All legal hispanic citizens are upset with the U.S. governments unwillingness to curb illegal immigration. They feel as if the struggle they went through to become documented was a waste of time.
Charlotte……….Please respond to this. I would really like your thoughts.
Good Time Charlie - I wish more native born Americans would be willing to fulfill ogligation #5 on your list, especially those from the upper classes.
Hear, Hear! Loyalty through sacrifice!
I just did a drive by of the Coverstone 7-11. Thirty-seven (37) day laborers hanging out waiting for work. Thirty-six were Latino (36) and one (1) was black. They were spread out from Pizza Hut to the dirt hill on the other side of 7-11.
Also, I drove by the MS-13 tree at the corner on Woodstock and the tagging has not been removed from the tree.
Good Time Charlie,
I’m sorry I just now saw your questions above, so you probably won’t read my response, but I’ll try anyway.
Yes, I do believe that people who enter this country illegally would like to fulfill your list. I also agree with all the reasons you wrote as to why people enter except for the last one. The forces that drive people here are not ones most of us experience in this country. The benefits to our society are that these people provide willing labor, and they are actually very loyal to our country. They pay some form of taxes and their presence also contributes to providing jobs for people.
Somewhere on here AWCheney wrote me a very interesting explanation from an economic standpoint why immigration should be halted. It was food for thought. But I don’t fault people who need to flee violence or crushing poverty.
It is shocking that this happened. Can you not post the pictures and how abotu the names and badge numbers of the offending worthless unresponsive police officers in this case?
I am certain that seeing their fraud laid bare on the blogs and possibly Lou Dobbs would make them think twice abotu repeating this stunt.
You are 100% correct in that this lack of action by our pandering and worthless “law enforcement” community that thier only concern is for deviant criminal illegal aliens.
Please post the pictures and the names.
Cheers!
SPQR_US
You don’t get it. When this incident was investigated there was a Watch Commander on the scene according to the woman who was the victim in this incident. Ask yourself why nothing was done.
Let me put the pieces of this puzzle together. Prince William County has a worthless police chief who has publically stated that he does not support any immigration measure that targets enforcement of laws involving minority groups fearing it would appear rascist.
Within the ranks of the police department I’m sure the patrol division has been instructed not to bother the day labor pick-up sites. Charlie Deane will make short work of your employment status if you were to be involved in police work that was against his personal views, or could put his department in a negitive light as a bully. He always views aggressive street officers as bullies. I would even go as far as saying that he loves to target officers for termination who make lots of arrests. His track record proves it.
Those police officers didn’t do thier job because they are lazy. They just knew employment with PWCPD would soon be terminated if they followed the law like surrounding jurisdictions would have done. Unless you have worked for Charlie Deane, you couldn’t imagine how worthless he has been, and how much he has damaged a once great department.
I can’t believe the BOCS has continued to watch him treat the rank and file like dogs, and publically tell them he isn’t going to enforce local codes they pass. I think the next vote should be for BOCS candidates who plan to hire a new police chief.
There is currently a lot of unemployment. Some people are desperate to find work. The construction industry has dried up, and good, honest people cannot find work. Some people do not understand this I guess. Perhaps if you could imagine weeks of no work and the desperation to feed yourself and your family. It’s a sad time for many. Have some compassion.