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Senate Courts of Justice Kills Immigration Reform Bills

By Greg L | 30 January 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics | 92 Comments

The Special Subcommittee on Immigration of the Senate Courts of Justice Committee killed SB 433 which would have enrolled Virginia in the Section 287(g) Program.  This program ensures that illegal aliens who are convicted of serious felonies such as rape, murder and felony assault are deported after they have served their sentence rather than be released back into our communities.  Senator Dick Saslaw, who had indicated to the Washington Post that no bills dealing with the illegal alien problem would make it through the General Assembly, seems to be making good on his promises.  So far, none of these bills has made it through this subcommittee which he leads.  Whether that continues may well be up to you.

In addition to killing this bill, this committee also killed proposals that would make sure that illegal aliens don’t benefit from some tax credits and deferrals, as well as SB 426 offered by Democrat George Barker that would require contractors to ensure that all the employees who perform work for the Commonwealth or it’s localities screen their employees for legal status using the federal E-Verify system.  Although there are some Democrats who clearly get that Virginia needs to reform it’s laws which make it easy for illegal aliens to unlawfully live and work in the Commonwealth, the leadership of the Democratic Party of Virginia is clearly eager to sell out Americans in favor of illegal aliens.  Why employers who profit from cheap illegal aliens labor at the expense of American workers need the protection of Dick Saslaw so they can continue their unlawful behavior escapes me, unless Saslaw is so far out to lunch that he thinks destroying this country is a good idea.  This is sheer insanity.

The only way that those bent on providing amnesty for illegal aliens, shielding them and their employers from the consequences of their actions, and putting their interests above those of Americans who follow the law have been dissuaded from their nefarious goals is when the public has weighed in with a crushing number of phone calls, emails, and letters.  It’s time for Virginia’s electorate to do that, otherwise we will again prove that we deserve the Government we’ve earned through our inattention, laziness, and carelessness.  If you want to prevent illegal aliens and those who unlawfully employ them from being protected from the consequences of their actions, you better get in the battle now.

Politics is not a spectator sport.  Don’t be one.

You can start here.



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92 Comments

  1. 200 Grande said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:06 am:
    Flag comment

    Americans remain reluctant to deal with this issue because of a deep-rooted, subconscious fear of being labeled a racist.

    It is looking like it is going to have to get a whole lot worse before Americans can summon up the will to face this problem, let alone deal with it.

  2. Angry Blackman! said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:07 am:
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    Why would he/ this committee do this? Is there a reason why?

    Still, it was nice to see that Manassas has been approved to now participate with ICE in the paper this morning. :)

  3. park'd said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:26 am:
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    I am beyond griping about this these days. It’s obvious that we are the minority in this country or else people like this wouldn’t keep getting voted into office. The fact that McCain will be the “Republican” nominee is proof that nobody cares about illegal immigration and its effects except for the select few who are unlucky enough to live in localities that have been taken over by them. To the rest of society they are just a cheap labor force that is out of sight and out of mind as long as they don’t live in their neighborhood. The insanity of a true Republican voting for McCain is just beyond comprehension. This time last year I really thought that people were concerned about this issue but I just don’t believe that anymore or else they wouldn’t keep electing the same old morons into office that stymy any chance of doing anything about it. I’ve known in my heart from the start that amnesty was a foregone conclusion and every day the state and federal politicians keep proving me right. They don’t care because they don’t have to live in the trashed up neighborhoods and they can send their brats to private schools away from the thugs and britney-esque floosies that go to ours. I just don’t understand America and the choices that we make as a country. The past decade is baffling to me.

  4. Harry said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:28 am:
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    I observed the special sub committee yesterday and here’s my take: the subcommittee as made up of 4 memebers: Saslaw, Quayle, Lucas and Edwards. There were numerous alien bills heard, looks like three will be combined: HB152, HB183, HB623, all have to do with no bail for llegals, this bill may run into a logistical problem, since of the 12,500 referals to ICE last year only 650 were accepted, also it was acknowlegeded by the patrons that illegals are not getting bail on serious crimes in VA. Until ICE is willing to put detainers on more than 5% of the referrals this no bail for less serious crimes is futile. Regarding Barker’s three bills, two dealt with tax credits for seniors and folks who rehab their homes. Barker made a good, logical argument, Chairman Stewart did not do himself any favors by reading a prepared statement for 5 minutes rather than just speaking, the county did not do its homework on this, the question was asked how many of these credits have been applied for by illegals, apparently none, so the oppostion made the argument that this is a “this is a bill looking for a problem.” Barkers other bill SB426, which requires companies doing business with any public entity in the Commonwealth do an e-verify check of it new hires, Paul Nichols has a companiton bill in the House (HB 90), Barker again did a good job explaining the bill and arguing for its passage, what happened next was expected: the home builders, manufactures, retail, etc lobbyists all spoke against the bill, its fate was then sealed…PBI. This action also spells doom for Nichols companion bill if it were to make it out of the House.

  5. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:44 am:
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    We SHOULD raise our taxes then the thugs and floosies couldn’t afford to squat here. They would keep going. We are talking $25-40 bucks a month. I would gladly pay that for a better class of neighbors.

    Not sure why being the lowest in the region is a good thing when the result is cheapest cost of living for the area. We are the 7th wealthiest county in the US (citizens) but pay far far less in taxes than those in our comparison group, we are over $1,000 a year on average lower than surrounding jurisdictions.

    We can either decide as a community that we just want lower taxes because less is better and we just know that without looking around or we can figure out what we are paying by comparison to other jurisdictions and realize that you do indeed get what you pay for. :)

  6. park'd said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:53 am:
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    Speak for yourself OneVoice. My taxes in the park are the highest in the state and what do I get for it? You guys in PWC have less illegals per square mile than we do yet my real estate taxes are 33% more. How would you like to pay 4k a year on a house that you couldn’t give away for 270k? Grrr..

  7. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:53 am:
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    We need to start sending ICE the day labor site locations to verify if the people their are “eligible to work legally in the U.S.”. We also need to start reporting businesses to ICE that pick up these day laborers. It will take local action like this to get things done. Our politicians are out to lunch.

  8. park'd said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:54 am:
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    Also, higher taxes do not solve the problem. Look at the park if you think that would solve this issue. Give them an advertised sanctuary city like the park and they will just live 12 to a house instead of 10 so that they can pay the higher taxes.

  9. park'd said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:57 am:
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    ICE will do nothing. When you call them they will ask you how you know they are illegal and that if they aren’t illegal then you can get sued. Been there done that. ICE is worthless, along with all the politicians.

  10. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:03 am:
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    park’d, it isn’t asking whether they are illegal or legal, it would be to verify whether or not they can work legally in the U.S. (it is no different that if you went to a new job and filled out the I-9 form). What gives these day laborers an “exemption” from this verification process?

  11. AWCheney said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:04 am:
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    That just doesn’t make sense, One Voice. How would raising our taxes affect whether the “thugs and floosies could(n’t) afford to squat here?” Would it not merely provide more funding for the public services to which they flock? And, besides, the vast majority of those folks seem to have managed avoiding most of those taxes anyway. Another thing to consider…do you really want to put more of our money for disbursal into the hands of the very elected officials who seemingly have no desire to remove this illegal population from our midst? I hope that you forgot your “sarcasm alert” again.

  12. Angry Blackman! said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:05 am:
    Flag comment

    I agree, we need to report the violating businesses to ICE. People, these bills may fail but when ICE gets involved the story will change. :)

  13. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:09 am:
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    Legit businesses hire people using the proper paperwork and keeping proper books. Businesses that are “questionable” would be those that pick up day laborers. This to me, should require further investigation to see if things are legit. Why should a day laborer not have to provide I-9 related information just because he/she stands outside waiting to be picked up by some business vice having to go through an HR process? They should not be exempt.

  14. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:13 am:
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    Two options.

    we just want lower taxes because less is better and we just know that without looking around
    or we can figure out what we are paying by comparison to other jurisdictions and realize that you do indeed get what you pay for

    Guess the first one works okay for you, no surprise there.

    Real Estate tax increases are passed along in rents, AW.

  15. Vigilant1 said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:15 am:
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    Remember the old adage YOU CAN’T FIGHT CITY HALL? Thank you Mr. Saslaw for loooking out for the interests of the CITIZENS of Viginia. You are not part of the problem. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!

  16. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:19 am:
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    PS increased and sustained rental costs push the real estate market up.

  17. silverfox said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:21 am:
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    Look back a few years in our history. Remember the meeting with Bush, Fox and Canadian Prime Minister? The ‘unified’ goal is to become the North American Union which does not include closed borders but rather open borders. 2010 is the year of change. Tancredo, Paul and Hunter have all brought this out into the national light. And yesterday on a talk radio show the host mentioned McCain’s liason to the Mexican vote is a dual citizen and the present Minister of Mexicans in the USA, while being involved in Mexico’s government. There is alot going on below the radar screen and it is not good!

  18. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:23 am:
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    PPS it would also be adjusting the taxes after the Connaughton gutting of our taxes. It went too low way too fast without market considerations, obviously.

  19. Lafayette said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:29 am:
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    The number of foreclosures in our county don’t do a damn thing to help the current real eastate value and taxes.
    This tidbit from the article.
    The FBI probe adds a new dimension to ongoing investigations by federal and state authorities into the home-loan industry, where wholesale mortgage failures have forced people from their homes and resulted in significant losses to investors — more than $130 billion in credit losses and writedowns.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080130/NATION/931768326/1001

  20. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:31 am:
    Flag comment

    So, you agree with me or disagree?

  21. dolph said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:42 am:
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    Maybe we would just be righting the tax situation after the Connaughten era.

  22. dolph said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:50 am:
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    One Voice,

    It seems like he who shall not be named was on both or minds.

  23. dolph said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:54 am:
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    correction: or = our

  24. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:04 am:
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    Yikes that was scary…… Too scary.

  25. Ducky said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:12 am:
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    After reading this story I have come to the conclusion that this site is composed of little more than a handful of right wingers who are rather inconsequential.

  26. Anonymous said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:21 am:
    Flag comment

    Ducky said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:12 am:
    After reading this story I have come to the conclusion

    QUACK! QUACK!

  27. Batson D. Belfrey said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:22 am:
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    “After reading this story I have come to the conclusion that this site is composed of little more than a handful of right wingers who are rather inconsequential.”

    Ducky,

    and your opinion matters how?

  28. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:29 am:
    Flag comment

    Ducky, I like your opinion. I don’t claim know everything. I am not an inconsequential right winger by any stretch of the immagination.

    Skip the nutcases….just enjoy it!!! McCain is looking good. Edwards/Guiliani are out….

  29. dolph said on 30 Jan 2008 at 10:22 am:
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    Ducky,

    I am not an inconsequential right winger. Just inconsequential.

  30. Anonymous said on 30 Jan 2008 at 10:28 am:
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    What is going on with SB90?

  31. Patty said on 30 Jan 2008 at 10:40 am:
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    Greg,

    What is happening with Senator Colgan’s SB90 bill? Surely this committee wouldn’t kill Colgan’s bill. They shouldn’t do that to the most senior Senator.

  32. Anonymous said on 30 Jan 2008 at 10:43 am:
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    McCain is another nut and if he’s chosen for President, look out. More illegals will be in the U.S.

  33. Greg L said on 30 Jan 2008 at 10:46 am:
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    Patty, I haven’t heard anything on SB 90 yet. They may be taking it up today.

  34. anonymoustoo said on 30 Jan 2008 at 11:53 am:
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    Too Conservative says that Corey Stewart is gearing up to announce a run for Lt. Gov.. Any info?

  35. Batson D. Belfrey said on 30 Jan 2008 at 11:56 am:
    Flag comment

    Think about this:

    If Kopko and crew hadn’t caused so much hate and discontent within the party, by ramming Gill down PWC voters throats, Jay O’brien might still have his Senate seat, and the GOP may have held the Senate majority (and the GOP would have most likely kept the 51st HOD). Saslaw wouldn’t be in charge of the Courts of Justice committee. These common-sense bills may have made it through.

    I am sure April 12th can’t get here fast enough for the PWCGOP, so they can put the era of Kopko behind them.

  36. madmom said on 30 Jan 2008 at 1:00 pm:
    Flag comment

    I read this and am at a loss for words. How can a Committee state that they will not pass any illegal legislation before the fact? Aren’t they supposed to look at each bill individually?

    How in the world could a Senator think that killing a bill to deport (serious) illegal criminals is not a good thing for his state? And these bills are from his
    party!!

    I’ve sent my emails through Save the Old Dominion. What a great set-up
    that is - I would like to thank whoever got that going. The easier it is, the
    more people will get involved.

    I’m sending this to all my friends and relatives and tell them how easy it is
    to send a message to their Senators. I hope everyone reading this blog does the same.

  37. TDB said on 30 Jan 2008 at 1:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:44 am:
    We SHOULD raise our taxes then the thugs and floosies couldn’t afford to squat here. They would keep going. We are talking $25-40 bucks a month. I would gladly pay that for a better class of neighbors.
    ———————————————————————
    The county will gladly accept any checks you would like to contribute!

  38. BattleCat said on 30 Jan 2008 at 1:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’m waiting for all these bills dealing with real issues to get killed, then the “truck nutz” bill pass. Then you’ve got a situation that begs for advertisement. I don’t think the vast majority of Virginians really know how messed up their legislative body is. WE pay for these jokers, and they are complete slaves to corporate interests. I don’t see the media helping out here, as they usually tend toward liberal interests.

  39. Lafayette said on 30 Jan 2008 at 1:40 pm:
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    Every email sent to the Sentors should also be sent to the Governor as well.

  40. Riley said on 30 Jan 2008 at 1:48 pm:
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    I’m sure that Barker (and Nichols) will be upset that Democrat leaders are doing this to them. I say start reaching out to both of them and let them know they’re welcome to jump over to the GOP where we’ll actually appreciate and listen to them.

  41. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 2:09 pm:
    Flag comment

    TBD I am sure they would. :)

    Seriously, I am willing to raise my taxes to improve areas around the county that are not directly impacted me, or not impacting me yet. Am I wrong to think this? I don’t want fewer firefighters or closed parks and libraries, I am for street lighting in all neighborhoods. I would also like to reduce the negative impact of illegal aliens.

    It looks like the perfect storm here - real estate market and illegal immigration combining to suck us all down.

    So, I am willing to pay a bit more for a better quality of life. And in the meantime if higher rents due to increased real estate taxes keep a certain element from moving in and at the same time kick up the real estate market (once higher rents are tolerable, mortgages are attainable) then isn’t that a good thing?

  42. CitizenofManassas said on 30 Jan 2008 at 2:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    Clearly the Senators on this sub committee are criminals, otherwise they would not have killed these bills that are targeted at taking criminals out of our work force here in the Commonwealth.

  43. Vigilant1 said on 30 Jan 2008 at 2:27 pm:
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    The State of Virginia is screwing it’s legal citizens by not passing legislature to combat illegal aliens and the U.S. House of Representatives is using our tax dollars to give ‘REFUNDS’ to illegals. WHAT A COUNTRY!

    From the Desk of:
    Steve Elliott, President, Grassfire.org Alliance

    1/30/2008

    I have just learned that the just passed House Stimulus package
    intended to jump-start a sagging economy by giving citizens rebates,
    also includes cash benefits for illegal aliens!

    Yes, you read that right.

    According to FOX News, the plan would benefit those illegal aliens
    who qualify as “resident aliens” - meaning they have
    spent a substantial amount of time in the U.S. and have not
    yet been deported.

    These so-called “resident aliens” also must have been assigned
    an Individual Tax Identification Number.

    What?

    Assigning a tax number to an illegal alien in-effect legitimizes
    their right to be in the U.S!

    As Rep. Tom Tancredo said to FOX News, the bill will certainly
    stimulate “more illegal immigration.”

    Once again this is a slap in the face to citizen taxpayers,
    and I’m calling on you to take immediate action with me by calling
    your Senators and demanding rebates to illegal aliens be dropped
    from this bill.

    Here’s your contact information for:

    Sen. Warner 202-224-2023
    Sen. Webb 202-224-4024

    This bill easily passed through the House (385-35), and it is my hope
    that our Grassfire team will be able to restore some sense and sensibility
    as this bill progresses through the Senate.

    But don’t delay. Call and express your outrage today.

    Thank you for taking immediate action with

  44. Lafayette said on 30 Jan 2008 at 2:34 pm:
    Flag comment

    One Voice,
    I don’t think you’re wrong. I would pay for a better quality of life.
    Perfect storm indeed it is.
    However, that eliment was able to get in on the action during the boom and then moved multiple “renters” into the bunk houses to pay the mortgages. Now the rates of adjusted and the payment are simply to large for these owners to keep up on their mortgage. There were a plenty of houses bought during the boom with 100% financing during the peak prices. The properties are sitting empty some severe cold tempratures are causing pipes to burst in these vacant homes. The water will standing in these house until someone goes to sell or list the properties after the banks have bought them.

  45. Advocator said on 30 Jan 2008 at 2:40 pm:
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    The time for revolution is quickly approaching.

  46. West Gate Witch said on 30 Jan 2008 at 2:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    Advocator,
    Will you be leading the revolution?

  47. Vigilant1 said on 30 Jan 2008 at 3:00 pm:
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    More on the ILLEGAL ALIEN TAX REBATES.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0108/Lou_Dobbs_alert_Illegal_immigrants_may_get_rebates.html

  48. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 3:18 pm:
    Flag comment

    Ahh. Good point for me to realize Lafayette. Certain element able to buy during the boom anyway. Now THAT would be due to the upside down loans? So there is this factor to add to the layers of the issue.

    They didn’t get in because they could afford it, they got in because the lender made it possible for them to afford it for a time or with ‘additional’ income.

    Advocator - please do.

  49. Anonymous said on 30 Jan 2008 at 3:59 pm:
    Flag comment

    One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 3:18 pm:
    They didn’t get in because they could afford it, they got in because the lender made it possible for them to afford it for a time or with ‘additional’ income.

    The FBI is presently investigating 14 firms that are suspected lending fraud and hope they hang them by the truck nuts.

  50. Lafayette said on 30 Jan 2008 at 4:12 pm:
    Flag comment

    Here’s the link to that story again.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080130/NATION/931768326/1001

  51. The Truth said on 30 Jan 2008 at 4:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    BWAH HAH HAH HAH!!!

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0108/Lou_Dobbs_alert_Illegal_immigrants_may_get_rebates.html

  52. Lafayette said on 30 Jan 2008 at 4:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    Virginia Senate Courts of Justice Committee – 2008
    meets on Monday at 9 a.m. and Wednesday at 2 p.m. in Senate Room A

    Senate information phone number: 1-804-698-7410

    Consult this link http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?081+doc+DOCS03 for the Senate Courts of Justice Committee docket or call Chairman Marsh’s number 804-698-7516 for committee docket information.

    Chairman Henry Marsh, III district16@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7516
    Senator Richard Saslaw* district35@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7535
    Senator Frederick Quayle* district13@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7513
    Senator Kenneth Stolle district08@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7508
    Senator Thomas Norment, Jr. district03@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7503
    Senator Janet Howell district32@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7532
    Senator Louise Lucas* district18@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7518
    Senator John Edwards* district21@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7521
    Senator Roscoe Reynolds district20@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7520
    Senator Linda Puller district36@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7536
    Senator Ken Cuccinelli, II district37@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7537
    Senator Mark Obenshain district26@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7526
    Senator Ryan McDougle district04@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7504
    Senator Creigh Deeds district25@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7525
    Senator Robert Hurt district19@sov.state.va.us 804-698-7519
    * indicates four members of the subcommittee on immigration
    All members of the Courts of Justice Committee would vote on immigration legislation in order for
    the legislation to reach the floor of the full General Assembly. Each one should be contacted and encouraged to get immigration legislation to the floor for the whole Assembly to register a vote.

  53. Lafayette said on 30 Jan 2008 at 4:20 pm:
    Flag comment

    For some reason the phone numbers are highlighted too. I don’t know what happened. These links take you to outlook to send email.

  54. Compassionate Conservative said on 30 Jan 2008 at 4:28 pm:
    Flag comment

    Vigilant1
    This is exactly my point. In assigning these tin’s, the feds have given authorization for these people to stay.

  55. Johnson said on 30 Jan 2008 at 5:40 pm:
    Flag comment

    Do not despair. It looks as if our choices on the national level are not looking good in terms of illegal alien legislation. The grass roots efforts by the states need to intensify and send the clearest message to Washington: We, as a nation, are sick of illegal aliens and the lawlessness bred by their presence here. I believe that this chicanery goes all the way to the White House and involves Dems and Reps alike. It reaches into the subprime mess as well. Illegals build the expensive homes, we buy them with subprime loans, they buy the housing that we sell and everybody gets rich, except those of us paying the mortgage. Now that the house of cards has toppled, we must act while the illegals can’t muster up reasons to be here. We need to take back our country.

  56. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 5:45 pm:
    Flag comment

    Anonymous 3:59. Me too.

  57. CJC said on 30 Jan 2008 at 5:52 pm:
    Flag comment

    Maybe we should turn around and invade Mexico. We should declare the whole place up for grabs and just have a land rush like they did in Oklahoma.

  58. CitizenofManassas said on 30 Jan 2008 at 6:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    High taxes are not the answer. Just look at places like New York City and just about anywhere in the Northeast, and don’t forget California. These places have some of the highest taxes in the Nation, and are havens for illegals. In fact, I think they are high because the liberals in power want to provide more social services to you know who.

    What we need are politicians who are willing to enforce the rule of law and will enact laws to combat crime.

  59. manassascityresident said on 30 Jan 2008 at 6:46 pm:
    Flag comment

    Advocator -
    Let me know where, and when - count me in -

  60. NoVA Scout said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:09 pm:
    Flag comment

    I’m a little slow compared to most of you, but, given the frequent complaint that 2Is don’t pay taxes, do you really have a problem with tax credits and deferrals for illegal immigrants who DO pay taxes? Put another way, how would anyone get the benefit of a deferral or credit if one did NOT pay taxes?

  61. es_la_ley said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:23 pm:
    Flag comment

    NoVA Scout: “given the frequent complaint that 2Is don’t pay taxes, do you really have a problem with tax credits and deferrals for illegal immigrants who DO pay taxes?”

    Only in the sense that they shouldn’t be here in the first place.

    “Put another way, how would anyone get the benefit of a deferral or credit if one did NOT pay taxes?”

    That’s in there too. Native-born U.S. citizens who have an income but don’t make enough to pay taxes get a rebate too (the last I read).

    I won’t get a dime back. But the money I pay in taxes will be rebated to those who don’t pay any taxes. That’s socialism.

  62. AWCheney said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    I just came online One Voice: No, I do not agree with you. It is ridiculous to arbitrarily raise taxes merely to raise rents. Taxes are seldom “temporary,” and I am a firm believer in the “sharp pencil” concept…particularly in government. The reason that the economy is in the current mess it’s in is because of outside influences (unprecedented numbers of illegal aliens in the workplace, in the welfare offices, in the schools, in the hospitals, etc.; and government turning a blind eye to the greed and veritable lawlessness in the real estate and mortgage markets…and the business community in general, with their illegal workforce), NOT because of natural free market influences as some might like us to believe.

    You have to understand, One Voice, I happen to believe that government budgets should be treated just like household budgets, in basic theory. Expenditures should be carefully prioritized and fall within one’s ability to pay (borrowing kept to a minimum, and only for big ticket items or in emergencies); decreases in income (tax cuts) mean a decrease in spending (budget cuts); careful spending (returning money to the budget) should be REWARDED, not punished (arbitrarily cutting budget requests based on previous spending, without regard to actual needs*)…you get the idea. The average taxpayer must “balance their checkbook” or face financial disaster…I see no reason why government should not be held to the same standard as are their employers.

    *An interesting, but long, story from many years ago involving the Navy Department trying to do the right thing and learning to do it the bureaucratic way when they got badly burned by the Congressional Budget Committee.

  63. BattleCat said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:31 pm:
    Flag comment

    CJC,
    I’m with you. Mexico’s climate is much more to my liking, and they have beautiful beaches!

    I bet they’d go back home quick enough then! :)

  64. Billyboy said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:35 pm:
    Flag comment

    Some may find this Resolution Interesting. It looks like SB90 went before Courts and Justice today in a 2pm session. Don’t know the result.

    084330212

    SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 26
    Offered January 9, 2008
    Prefiled January 3, 2008
    Requesting the Attorney General of Virginia to pursue all remedies through litigation to recover moneys owing from the United States government to the Commonwealth for reimbursement of costs incurred by the State in dealing with illegal immigration. Report.
    ———-
    Patrons– Colgan and Hanger
    ———-
    Referred to Committee on Rules
    ———-
    WHEREAS, the illegal immigrant population in Virginia has increased 300 percent between 1996 and 2004; and

    WHEREAS, estimates show that the total number of illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States is in excess of 21,258,500 and that Virginia has surpassed 300,000 illegal immigrants in 2007; and

    WHEREAS, a direct result of lax federal immigration policy and enforcement has led to increased financial burdens on Virginia in the areas of emergency medical care, prisons, and public schools; and

    WHEREAS, many officials in state and local government feel the best solution to the problems caused by illegal immigration is for the federal government to enforce existing immigration laws and pass stronger immigration laws, thereby slowing the growth and reducing the number of illegal immigrants allowed to enter and stay in the United States; and

    WHEREAS, several states, such as Florida, Texas, New Jersey, New York, California, Colorado and Arizona, have either filed lawsuits or are contemplating the filing of a lawsuit against the federal government for these purposes; now, therefore, be it

    RESOLVED by the Senate, the House of Delegates concurring, That the Attorney General of Virginia is requested to pursue all remedies through litigation to recover moneys owing from the United States government to the Commonwealth for reimbursement of costs incurred by the State in dealing with illegal immigration. The Attorney General should examine the various legal arguments utilized by other states that have previously contemplated or filed such a suit and any other arguments that may present a ground for such an action, and determine whether the filing of such a suit is within the best interests of the Commonwealth.

    The Attorney General shall submit to the Division of Legislative Automated Systems an executive summary and report of his findings in meeting the request of this resolution no later than the first day of the 2009 Regular Session of the General Assembly. The executive summary and report shall be submitted for publication as a report document as provided in the procedures of the Division of Legislative Automated Systems for the processing of legislative documents and reports and shall be posted on the General Assembly’s website.

  65. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:19 pm:
    Flag comment

    AW - I am not so dim witted to think that we should raise taxes simply to increase rents. I will continue to maintain that comparatively speaking, PWC is the 7th wealthiest county in the country with an average tax bill so far out of proportion with the rest of them and with surrounding jurisdictions that it should make someone wonder. I would further point out that our spending per pupil finally went BELOW Prince George’s County. Maybe someone thinks that makes us efficient. That makes me embarassed. At one point last year I did hear a citizen say that perhaps we are not efficient, we are just underfunded.

    I am futher of the opinion that government budgets are not like household budgets. Local governments are expected to function at the same level of service despite changes at the top which can result in questionable direction. PWC’s general fund budget is about 85% salary the rest equipment and what little infrastructure there is. Governments are about services to the community, there is no profit or savings goal included. The return is in the quaility of life and attractability of the area. Is anyone here satisfied with what we are attracting to the area?

    Unless you are employed on a commission only basis, your revenue stream is a tad more reliable with your household budget than with a local government budget which relies on market and state and federal funding and impactd by state and federal mandates, typically unfunded.

    What is included in the better government budgets is a long term strategic plan that has the foresight to emcompass enhancement plus necessity. I will agree that the strategic plan should be obtainable with outcome measures to determine the effectiveness of the strategies employed. The government that does not include enhancements or progress in their long term plan, fails to attract the best of the best - teachers, professionals, public safety etc the plasma of our county’s active resources.

    There is very good reading regarding best practices in local government budgeting from ICMA (International City Management Association). There are also very good slide presentations available on the County’s website regarding regional tax rates and bills.

    We are thinking alike, regarding being strategic, I am pointing out the nosedive that our local tax rate underwent during the flush times, comparing our ‘wealth’ with the tax rates of comparable jurisdictions and comparing our tax bill with surrounding jurisdictions. I am also referring to providing a plan through 2013, not 2008, that is balanced and includes growth and progress. How many more years do you think PWC can survive with a largely volunteer fire deparment and EMT services? We are the last of the big jurisdiction with a majority volunteer service.

    PWC spent many years keeping pace with the population increases and then managed to obtain a AAA bond rating. PWC’s self-imposed celing on debt (how much you can borrow) five year balanced budget planning and strategic decisions regarding capital improvement got that for the citizens. In return, there is a healthy discount on debt service (interest) and a flag over PWC for economic development. A stable financial position which is required for such a rateing is only maintained largely due to the policies followed by a seasoned management team. Conservative budget practices, specifically in regards to investment earnings, property tax collection assumptions, and anticipated federal and state aid grants — coupled with strict spending controls all contribute.

    Once you lose it, it is almost impossible to regain it.

    PWC is simply moving backwards and the decimated five year plan not to mention the slaughtered capital improvement project plan are indicative of that if you wish to read it. Keep in mind these are not one year plans, these are five years and more due to the need to plan ahead.

    There is a reason PWC is attracting what is is attracting…….. and it’s the community’s call.

  66. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:27 pm:
    Flag comment

    Billyboy - That would be good news for PWC!! :)

  67. Billyboy said on 30 Jan 2008 at 8:50 pm:
    Flag comment

    Bad News, this just posted on the Legislative Website…

    SB 90 Employment; verification of eligibility.

    01/30/08 Senate: Passed by indefinitely in Courts of Justice (13-Y 2-N)

    ——————————————————————————–

    YEAS–Marsh, Saslaw, Stolle, Quayle, Norment, Howell, Lucas, Edwards, Reynolds, Puller, McDougle, Deeds, Hurt–13.

    NAYS–Cuccinelli, Obenshain–2.

    ABSTENTIONS–0.

    ——————————————————————————–

    Legislative Information System | Bills & Resolutions

  68. One Voice said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:15 pm:
    Flag comment

    Bad news for PWC :(

  69. Mr. Anon said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    So much for eating crow!

  70. Mr. Anon said on 30 Jan 2008 at 9:20 pm:
    Flag comment

    Thanks to all of you good citizens for giving the Democrats and Saslaw control of the Senate.

  71. CitizenofManassas said on 30 Jan 2008 at 10:09 pm:
    Flag comment

    Nova,

    Of course illegals should not get a penny of public money. Do we allow bank robbers to keep the money they steal?

    BTW, I love how you leave once the heat gets a bit too much for you.

  72. Vigilant1 said on 30 Jan 2008 at 10:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    NoVA Scout said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:09 pm:
    I’m a little slow compared to most of you

    Plain and simple…..they are illegal aliens and are not (by Federal Law) entitled to work in this country. If they are, they are again breaking our laws. The tax number provided by the IRS is for anyone legally in this country in lieu of a SSN. Unfortunately, the IRS AND SS do not share information and that is one of the main problems in stopping illegal immigration.

    The should NOT be allowed to get refunds for the taxes they paid (few of them do pay taxes to begin with) as their work is being done illegally. There is works underway in the Senate to prevent this but good ole HARRY REID will throw some roadblock to stop closing the loophole.

  73. AWCheney said on 30 Jan 2008 at 11:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    “AW - I am not so dim witted to think that we should raise taxes simply to increase rents.”

    That’s why I suggested that you may have forgotten your “sarcasm alert.” You should go back and read your previous comments. I don’t disagree with your comment at 8:19 pm, with the exception of, “I will continue to maintain that comparatively speaking, PWC is the 7th wealthiest county in the country with an average tax bill so far out of proportion with the rest of them and with surrounding jurisdictions that it should make someone wonder.” I don’t see any benefit in modeling our tax base after that of our neighbors, given that the vast majority of our neighbors have a history of far more wasteful spending than we have, here in Prince William County.

    That said, I am also not adverse to reasonable tax increases and have never been in concert with that group that seems unable to recognize the logic that decreasing assessments along with a moderately increasing tax rate does not a tax increase make. Reasonable investment in the schools (particularly direct educational costs, as in teacher’s salaries, school supplies and materials, and infrastructure…it’s way too heavy in administrative costs already) and in public safety (which, by the way, Kaine is holding hostage over the 287g programs popping up around the state) is a no-brainer. It goes back to “prioritizing.” I just believe that the budget process must be more detailed and open to public scrutiny, and less dependent upon a bureaucrat telling our elected officials simply, “that’s our bottom line.”

  74. alexandrianagainstillegals said on 30 Jan 2008 at 11:55 pm:
    Flag comment

    But Greg L said it was in the hands of 4 people - why did this many vote? Im confused

    Bad News, this just posted on the Legislative Website…

    SB 90 Employment; verification of eligibility.

    01/30/08 Senate: Passed by indefinitely in Courts of Justice (13-Y 2-N)

    ——————————————————————————–

    YEAS–Marsh, Saslaw, Stolle, Quayle, Norment, Howell, Lucas, Edwards, Reynolds, Puller, McDougle, Deeds, Hurt–13.

    NAYS–Cuccinelli, Obenshain–2.

    ABSTENTIONS–0.

    [Ed note: often I have to rely on the same crappy state website for information that you do. Sometimes you will catch that things moved from subcommittee to committee before I do, because I don’t always have the time to be hitting “refresh” all day long. Unless I get a head’s up I may not be aware of all the statuses on the 100+ bills on this issue moving through the GA at any given time. I wish I had caught this earlier, though. Thanks for getting the information out there quickly. I appreciate it.]

  75. One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 6:13 am:
    Flag comment

    AW - which of our comparable jurisdictions fall into this category? Rather general statement…..

    I don’t see any benefit in modeling our tax base after that of our neighbors, given that the vast majority of our neighbors have a history of far more wasteful spending than we have, here in Prince William County.

  76. AWCheney said on 31 Jan 2008 at 8:15 am:
    Flag comment

    Huh…Arlington, Fairfax County, Alexandria, DC…just about everyone north of us. If you ask the folks over at Too Conservative, you can count Loudoun in, too. One of the more expensive counties in the area is Culpepper, with just about the worst services. And then there’s Manassas Park…

    Our schools have out-performed each of these jurisdictions (that includes Fairfax) over the years, at far less comparative cost (of course, under this new Superintendent, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s been changing). Until the illegal alien situation here got out of control, crime per capita was also lower (may still be). Prince William County has simply been a bit better at getting more bang out of the taxpayer buck for quite some time. Of course, the City of Manassas, thanks in large part to a forward-looking former Mayor by the name of Harry Parrish (those annexation deals that Harry pulled off were shear genius…and then there’s Lake Manassas), has proven to be the most efficient of all the area jurisdictions in keeping the taxes low and services high…until that illegal alien invasion, that is. There were some very good reasons for the enormous growth of PWC during the past two decades, and it wasn’t because crime was high or the schools were bad or the taxes were off the scale.

  77. NoVA Scout said on 31 Jan 2008 at 9:50 am:
    Flag comment

    CoM: I wasn’t aware that I had left or that the heat had gotten too much for me. Thanks for straightening me out on the bank robber angle. Had I realized that this legislation was addressing taxes paid on bank robberies, it would have made more sense to me. As I said, I’m a bit slow compared to many of the the bright sparks around here.

  78. One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 9:56 am:
    Flag comment

    Wasn’t clear about the wasteful spending. Are there specifics you had in mind? Overfunding adult sports, employee travel or are you just generalizing - which is okay. Just wondered if there were specifics.

    Best practices exercises are all about comparative anlaysis of jurisdictions; comparable in wealth and size. PWC is far apart from EVERYONE in tax dollars with those comparisions. I think overall it’s a good thing. Best Places to live guides, retirement guides and such. Good comparisons adjust for cost of living, match eduactional levels, incomes, heads of households and such to get a good analysis. There is an assumption that by isolating those characteristics of a community then you are able to compare satisfaction as some of those characteristics seek the same quality issues and similar services from the local government.

    Police just lost over half a million bucks from the state on the anti-annexation deal, but that was due to Kaine. Regarding revenue streams….

    Absloutely agree that PWC has been good at getting bang for the buck. Bang is now a popping sound. We are slowly moving into underfunded. Just consider the fire service.

    Like I said, we get what we pay for and we attract what we have to offer……

    :)

  79. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Jan 2008 at 10:02 am:
    Flag comment

    NoVA Scout said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:09 pm:

    I have a problem with it in that the reason they pay taxes is because they have stolen the identity of a LEGAL person to do so. Whether it is some unknown or their anchor baby, it is still stolen. Naming the anchor baby after you is a smart way to get a SSN card.
    _________________________

    AWCheney said on 30 Jan 2008 at 7:25 pm

    The average taxpayer must “balance their checkbook” or face financial disaster…I see no reason why government should not be held to the same standard as are their employers.

    You are absolutely right, but when the Gov’t can print money at a whim, there is really no need to follow that line of thinking.
    __________________________

  80. One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 12:54 pm:
    Flag comment

    Medic we are talking local dollars. It would be nice if locals could print their own….. :)

  81. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Jan 2008 at 1:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 12:54 pm

    I agree. One person did try to do so with money backed by precious metal. The Fed Gov’t closed him down.

  82. One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 1:25 pm:
    Flag comment

    You’re a medic - you understand going as far as 2013 without even a thought to begin to convert to a 24 hour fire and rescue? They are having so much trouble getting volunteers….

    I am a strong support of volunteer services; that’s not the issue. Its the staffing and availablity.

    Were you the one that posted you were thinking of going back to the midwest to the family farm to sustain you and yours?? I think that the smartest thing I’ve seen here in a long time.

    We all need to think about being able to take care of ourselves in that way. I am not speaking of paranoia, I am speaking of strength.

  83. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Jan 2008 at 2:16 pm:
    Flag comment

    One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 1:25 pm:

    I think there are many reasons they are having so much trouble:

    1) HIV
    2) Hep C
    3) No time, people work so much just to make ends meet.
    4) No incentive to do so. The youth of today want everything right now and they do not want to work for it.
    5) It is hard work being a Fire Fighter. It isn’t all about riding in the shiny truck, you have to actually work on the fire ground.

    I was chastised for making women take K-12 saws (heavy saws used to cut holes in the roof) to the roof to ventilate. I told the chief, if Firefighter “Patty”, Firefighter “Sherry” and I arrived on the scene first and the roof needed to be ventilated, would you want your LT on the roof ventilating it while Firefighters just stood there and watched? He understood my point about making the women carry the saw up the ladder and vent the roof. If the men couldn’t do it, they were dismissed from the dept. The women quit after they were made to do the same things as the men. I have no quarrel with women paramedics/firefighters or police as long as they can hold up their end of the cot/hose and take down a 350lbs man.

  84. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Jan 2008 at 2:24 pm:
    Flag comment

    OV,

    The dept I was on was going to full time paid members. I was on the list to be paid full time because I could run on the ambulances as well as the fire trucks, until I herniated a disc in my back and was no longer able to do the job. I understand fully about going from volunteer to full time. If the dept is not going until 2013, that is not good. They have a long hard road in front of them.

  85. One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 2:29 pm:
    Flag comment

    I was not clear in my post. There is a five year plan out there for additional firefighters that takes us thru 2012. That plan does NOT address a full time career fire and resuce service; I am saying there are no plans or funding to address converting to a full time career fire and rescue services at all.

  86. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Jan 2008 at 4:17 pm:
    Flag comment

    OHHH!!! That is a major problem. People will only risk their lives for free for only so long. There are other factors as well. If they get hurt on the fire ground, they are out of work. I am sure the fire dept has insurance, but not workers comp to cover lost wages.
    __________

    Paid service is expensive since Medicare will only pay about $15-$20/run.

    I saw a Medicare check for reimbursement of an ambulance bill of $5.00. The cost of the supplies used was $30.00 not counting the gas, vehicle maintenance, payroll or vehicle lease payment.

    Then you have the higher risks of disease. I have always said I will not go back to being a Paramedic until they pass a law that says every HIV/HepC positive patient has to have it tattooed on their forehead. I have been stuck by needles in the back of the ambulance before. After the IV was in their arm, the driver hit a bump. The needle came out of their arm and into my hand. That had happened on several occasions. I was lucky enough not to contract something.

  87. CitizenofManassas said on 31 Jan 2008 at 4:44 pm:
    Flag comment

    Once again Dick lives up to his name. Since he is such a supporter of illegals, I am sure he will be more then happy to come and support child rapists and murderers. Otherwise, it just appears he only supports some type of criminals, and of course that would raise questions of why he only seems to support some and not all criminals.

    It is a shame that a guy has more sympathy for criminals then he does for the average Citizen of the Commonwealth. There is a special place in hell for people like Dick.

  88. One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 5:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    MEDIC64 - So I see this as a huge problem. “Huger” if you agree. I am not a firefighter, just a person but I am wondering about why this is not been done. I asked and asked. There is no funding to support this huge issue. And it’s not even on the table for discussion. At this point the only thing they can pay for are public safety staffing and immigration which I heard will still cost us a tax increase.

    I am all for saving money from illegals, but I would like to see the actual dollars from the hospitals and watch the transfer to PWC’s coffers. I just want to see it - call me a skeptic. :)

  89. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Jan 2008 at 5:53 pm:
    Flag comment

    OV,

    Not only does it affect your taxes, but also your insurance rates. The fire dept has to have a certain number of people on staff and certain types of equipment as well. There is an ISO PPC ( http://www.isomitigation.com/ppc/0000/ppc0001.html ) rating for the fire district. This is determined by the amount of training, apparatus and hydrant flow and placement. The higher the rating, the lower the property insurance rates.

    With departments understaffed, it will cause the ISO PPC rating to go down. The lack of apparatus to meet the needs of the community, a ladder truck to reach the tallest building for example, will also cause the rating to go down.
    ______

    From the website:

    “Virtually all U.S. insurers of homes and business property use ISO’s Public Protection Classifications in calculating premiums. In general, the price of insurance in a community with a good PPC is substantially lower than in a community with a poor PPC, assuming all other factors are equal.

    A community’s PPC depends on:

    * fire alarm and communication systems, including telephone systems, telephone lines, staffing, and dispatching systems
    * the fire department, including equipment, staffing, training, and geographic distribution of fire companies
    * the water supply system, including the condition and maintenance of hydrants, and a careful evaluation of the amount of available water compared with the amount needed to suppress fires”
    _____

    So it isn’t just about the staff, but also maintaining the apparatus to fight fires and a proper water supply.

    When your fire insurance goes down, you need to stop by the fire station and thank the firemen for working hard in training and testing to get a good ISO PPC rating. They come out to test the staff and apparatus when the department feels they are ready to go for a higher rating. They have to be careful it doesn’t back fire on them too.

  90. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 31 Jan 2008 at 5:56 pm:
    Flag comment

    http://www.isomitigation.com/ppc/3000/ppc3012.html

    This table shows the point breakdown.

  91. One Voice said on 31 Jan 2008 at 8:11 pm:
    Flag comment

    Okay, great website for my geekie self. I now know about need fire flow based on construction and learned about the PPC rating. It does not provide the information below the state level except for the 55 communities in a class I. Something to think about regarding retirement. VA has one class 1 community and 306 class 9’s. Majority of areas were in class 5/6 as it was across the nation. I imagine that addresses the geographics involved regarding terrain, congestion and population centers.

    I think the volunteers buy the equipment from the fire levies….

    Well, I just think this should be a higher consideration for funding evaluation but I guess there are other pressing issues that will chew up funding. Still, I would be willing to pay a bit more for more….. Looks like I am pretty much alone on that.

    I just don’t see any saving from illegals funneling into county coffers soon enough to address some of these issue. Guess I’ll go look for a Class I community!!!

    Thanks for the info!

  92. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 1 Feb 2008 at 9:08 am:
    Flag comment

    The dept. sell things for equipment. There are funds from the county, but in these times, I see them lacking. Everything needs funding and fire suppression, police protection and paramedics seem to be low on the list. It is hard fighting fire with older equipment.

    The money will come, not right away, but it will come. The decrease in cost of doing business for the county will help. That cost is decreased when services are being used by those who pay their fair share.

    It is an interesting site. You can get lost in the information it provides :)

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