Abdulla Is Smuggling Illegal Aliens?
By Greg L | 6 February 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics | 179 Comments
News Channel 8 is reporting on what may be evidence of an illegal alien smuggling ring operating in Northern Virginia in the aftermath of a traffic accident on I-66 that tied up morning rush-hour traffic yesterday.
When police questioned the driver, Abdulla Bonilla, he could not provide them with proper identification nor could any of the 6 passengers in his silver Nissan Pathfinder.
ABC 7/NewsChannel 8’s Suzanne Kennedy reports that Immigrations Customs Enforcement agents took the suspects into a ICE facility in Fairfax where the immigration status of the suspects are being questioned.
ICE agents say the seven suspects are Mexican nationals and want to make sure that they are not part of a smuggling or human trafficking group.
The driver’s unusual name here is worthy of some informed speculation. One could easily conclude that the driver is a convert to Islam, given that it’s hardly commonplace for persons of central-american heritage to name their children with arabic first names. Perhaps coincidentally, the Virginia Muslim Political Action Committee has risen to the defense of the local illegal alien population and has been engaged over the past few years in trying to obtain converts to Islam within the area’s immigrant community. When someone who apparently is active in smuggling illegal aliens into the area pops up with what would appear to be an islamic connection, you just have to wonder whether there’s something more disturbing than simply yet another organized criminal effort to traffic in human beings going on here.
I really hope that the profit potential in smuggling illegal aliens hasn’t been discovered and exploited by those who might want to raise money in support of organizations associated with terrorism. There’s no evidence to suggest that’s the case here, but the reports of connections between illegal aliens and terrorism have been rather frequent in the past few years. Why Northern Virginiastan could possibly be immune to this has never been established.
If local police and the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement does a good job of running this investigation down, this could possibly develop into one of the biggest stories of the year. Keep an eye on this one.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
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“If local police and the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement does a good job of running this investigation down, this could possibly develop into one of the biggest stories of the year. Keep an eye on this one.”
Yeah, don’t count on it. Even if they did it would not be advertised since it would admit to the people that national security is a joke as long as the borders are wide open. We’ve got McCain - The National Security Candidate to protect us though…
Does this surprise anyone? It shouldn’t!
I think this was just an innocent carload of well-wishers visiting Tom Davis.
They are here only to do the jobs Americans won’t do. They came all the way from Arizona to do them. Seven less at the 7-11’s.
“informed speculation”
funny
Advocator,
You’re funny. Where is medic 64? I thought he would jump on this one.
How much do you want to bet that the driver of this van or the occupants or all were residing in Prince William County?
Patty: I sure wouldn’t take that bet. Easy money they were.
Anyone want to buy a slightly damaged, silver Pathfinder? Got a feeling that one will be going on the auction block soon.
Is the injured one enjoying free medical care at FFX Hospital, an INOVA facility?
Johnson,
I can’t imagine NOT! They don’t seem like the type to offer to pay for their medical attention.
Patty,
Mr. Medic is around. I saw him on BOS thread earlier.
Johnson said on 6 Feb 2008 at 12:44 pm:
Is the injured one enjoying free medical care at FFX Hospital, an INOVA facility?
The injured one is the woman who was driving the car that the Pathfinder driven by Abdulla struck. None of the Mexicans were injured.
No they left him bleeding on the side of the road hoping other traffic would finish the job. Feel better now?
Really, we must be all DREAMING that this type of activity happens in our community.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59995
“Islamist ‘Trojan horse’ in Pentagon, say experts
FBI: Top defense advisers linked to radical Muslim Brotherhood”
We must all be dreaming about this too! Happy dreams everyone…happy dreams!
Disgusted said on 6 Feb 2008 at 1:04 pm:
No they left him bleeding on the side of the road hoping other traffic would finish the job. Feel better now?
———————————————————
I’d feel a whole lot better if all seven were left on the side of the road!!
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080206/NEWS/802060308
Wow. The illegals are in Cape Cod of all places! No…not a problem…just continue to dream all of this up.
JKK
I assume you would include any babies? They might go faster since they are smaller and have a tendency to roll.
Digusted said on 6 Feb 2008 at 1:32 pm:
JKK
“I assume you would include any babies? They might go faster since they are smaller and have a tendency to roll.”
When faced with harsh criticisms and realities, this is how the pro-illegal lobby choose to react? Now I’m “digusted”. Face the truth…or prepare for the day your vehicle is struck by someone with no insurance, no ID and no right to be here.
Hmm…sounds as if this could have been avoided…only how? Man, I wish we had something that would allow localities to investigate and deport people found to be illegally residing here. I wish there was a program that would verify a persons identity before they got hired…man, if only someone would come up with these things perhaps the problem could be stemmed?
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 6 Feb 2008 at 1:20 pm:
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080206/NEWS/802060308
Wow. The illegals are in Cape Cod of all places! No…not a problem…just continue to dream all of this up.
Officers can ask you anything they want, but you don’t have to answer,” said Elizabeth Badger, an attorney with the Political Asylum Immigrant Refugee Project of Boston.
They shouldn’t worrry, as they are probably working for Tio Teddy and he will look out for them……Pssst, don’t say anything, they’ll think you are Irish!
Of course there are illegal aliens on Cape Cod, MA. Who do you think is mowing the Kennedy Compound and cleaning up after them?
Digusted said on 6 Feb 2008 at 1:32 pm:
JKK
I assume you would include any babies? They might go faster since they are smaller and have a tendency to roll.
Actually, they go faster when they crawl.
Anonymous you “win”.
Anonymous might only win temporarily…..forever is a long time.
Look at this from Wisconsin. Illegal immigrants are from around the globe. This from the article.
The latest raids came on the heels of a three-day sweep last week that resulted in the arrest of 20 immigrants who had ignored orders to be deported.
We need to see this happening in NoVA!
http://www.examiner.com/a-1202834~Feds_arrest_20_immigrants_during_sweeps_in_Fond_du_Lac__West_Bend.html
From the article cited by Lafayette:
“The person said that the illegal immigrants were forced to work 13 hours daily during the week and 15 hours on weekends, were paid poorly and had no individual means of transportation, according to court records. The employees also were told they could not “run around” because the owners would get in trouble with law enforcement.
Meanwhile, Cheng and her family members had six cars, including a 2004 Lexus and 2006 BMW.”
How can people still claim that the illegal alien situation in this country is not leading to a new “slave” class? The above situation is all too common in the illegal alien community and is largely being perpetrated by other aliens, often from the same country of those they enslave. There is no question that immigration reform is necessary…but first the borders MUST be controlled and these people must be sent home to their families in their native countries. Those people preying upon these illegal aliens must be found, tried and convicted, then permanently deported after serving their sentences…whether they are here legally or not. That is not only the law…it is the morally right thing to do. The illegal alien apologists are helping to perpetuate these reprehensible practices…so who really has the high ground here?
Fasil Gill is probably down at the local ICE facility trying to get some new clients.
AW I agree with you 150%. Although I think the Russians are big in this as well….
I’m well aware of that One Voice…which is why I pointed out that “the above situation is all too common in the illegal alien community and is largely being perpetrated by other aliens, often from the same country of those they enslave.” Aliens come here illegally from a multitude of countries…not just those south of our border.
AWCheney said on 6 Feb 2008 at 4:26 pm
It is, but because everyone has to be politically correct, we can’t call it what it is. Besides, the black folks wouldn’t like that slave title taken away from them. It gives them a reason to continue their oppressed mantra. Hispanics do not have the market cornered on the ILLEGAL alien front. For some reason they think they do.
______________________
Patty,
Thanks for being concerned about me
A new business venture is taking up some of my time right now 
____________________
The profit margin would be a good way to fund any terrorist activity in the US. Imagine if they bring them here and use them as an “army” against us. Infiltration from within just like a Trojan horse. We have to wake up and smell the coffee now before Juan Valdez is here with his mule!!!
____________________
I am about ready for a Liberty street update.
AW - I meant the Russians are known for human trafficking… Yikes!
“It is, but because everyone has to be politically correct, we can’t call it what it is. Besides, the black folks wouldn’t like that slave title taken away from them. It gives them a reason to continue their oppressed mantra.”
Medic, that’s the kind of remark which lends credence to those who throw around the accusations of “racism” so freely. Race has absolutely no place in the debate of the issues of illegal immigration and illegal aliens…it has nothing to do with it. Bringing it into the debate does nothing to further the discussion…it only serves to send it into an emotional vortex.
AWCheney, rest assured….Medic never fails to disappoint!
OH BROTHER.
They were probably working for Saslaw
AWCheney, I so agree with you. Medic, please use your brain if you want people to respect your opinions about “illegal” immigrants. Remove race, ethnic group, gender and religious affiliation from your lexicon, and your arguments will go so much furthur, be so much more respected, and be so much more convincing of your true nature. Lou Dobbs does that very well, and is well respected for it.
When he focuses on the damage of “illegal” behaviors, and the predjudice and privilege of ethnic groups, not the ethnic groups themselves, he smells like a rose. When he forgets he stinks and loses his arguments.
I read the story five times and found nothing about Islamic radicals engaging in illegal alien trafficking. Greg is a liar.
Perhaps, Ducky, you should read more carefully before you call someone a liar. Greg’s post was speculative, and he quite clearly said so:
“There’s no evidence to suggest that’s the case here, but the reports of connections between illegal aliens and terrorism have been rather frequent in the past few years. Why Northern Virginiastan could possibly be immune to this has never been established.”
The blogs offer a forum for opinion and that is exactly what Greg expressed, going so far as to offer a disclaimer for the edification of those whose reading comprehension falls within the narrow view of their own prejudices. Perhaps you should consider broadening that narrow view, and work your brain before you work your fingers on the keyboard.
Ohh burn! Ducky just got pwned.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=%7BF116E307-B28B-4F7D-81BD-3A2038784994%7D
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/456532.html
“Mandatory Spanish classes anger Grapevine family”
It would seem unusual to associate Mexico, or any of the Latin American countries, with Islam, but there is a slow and steady conversion to the faith.
Because Mexico does not recognize non-christian religions, the number of Muslims practicing the Sunni Islam faith are not tracked and, at best, estimates. It may be Mexico’s relationship with the US and concerns about the “open border”, that account for Mexico trivializing the growing number of Muslim conversions.
That Abdulla (from Mexico) would be involved in flesh peddling should not come as a surprise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Mexico
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/tijuana/20080206-9999-1m6kidnap.html
Again, are we to embrace this?
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080207/NEWS01/802070329/1006/NEWS01
“A new task force targeting illegal immigrant workers arrested 10 employees at two Mexican restaurants in Santa Rosa County on Wednesday.”
junes_reston, could you offer any documentation for what you describe as a “slow and steady conversion to the faith” of Islam in Mexico?
Also, could you explain what you mean by Mexico not “recognizing” non-Christian religions?
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2002/14051.htm
Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 8:35 am:
junes_reston, could you offer any documentation for what you describe as a “slow and steady conversion to the faith” of Islam in Mexico?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,358223,00.html
http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370015
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44636
For all of those on my ass,
I never mentioned anything about race. I posted an opinion about a group of people, nothing more. I think if you were to go through the archives of BVBL, you would see that I have stated on numerous occasions that the ILLEGAL alien issue isn’t about race.
I gave an opinion about a group of people, who obviously feel they are still oppressed today. There is nothing further from the truth. Block people have many more opportunities than they had just 40 years ago.When a group can have their own TV, pageant, history month and Presidential candidate, there isn’t anything oppressive about it.
Instead of preaching to me about race, why don’t you teach those on your group to love instead of hate. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the biggest 2 racists I have ever seen.
Ducky
Won’t you please fly south for the winter?
So Medic, just to clarify. You think there is no oppression of black people as a population in the United States today? You think systematic discrimination has ended?
999, did you read the report from the US Dept of State?
PS to 999: Your three refs are virtual identical stories about the conversion of hundreds in a country of over 100 million. What Junes_Reston implied, apart from his/her erroneous mention of Mexico not recognizing non-Christian religions, was something much more.
That World.Net Daily would use a word like “skyrocket” doesn’t exactly surprise me.
@ Leila
Oppression is based more on socio-economic status then race nowadays. There are far too many opporatunities for members of all races in this current day and age. Of course there still exists racists, but they hardly have the power anymore to actually oppress an entire group of people.
To claim racial oppresion today is more like a crutch or excuse for bad descisions. Or, in cases like Al Sharpton, big business.
Or in the case of NCLR….they only work for policies to help latinos (not all Americans). All policies in America are supposed to be made for the good of all…not just a group of people based on race/ethnicity/religion, etc.
Mando, So for example, systematic studies of discrimination in employment, housing, etc. using test subjects with identical resumes or qualifications are all bogus? There is no *systematic* or institutional discrimination in the United States based on race?
Alert the presses! Not to mention the social scientists.
“Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 8:35 am:
junes_reston, could you offer any documentation for what you describe as a “slow and steady conversion to the faith” of Islam in Mexico?”
Why is it that annoying libs like “Leila” always demand “documentation” regarding any assertion made by someone who is against illegal immigration? “Documentation” or lack thereof doesn’t seem to be important to communists like “Leila” when discussing whether or not an illegal alien should be allowed to move about freely in our society.
Leila, perhaps you should read Mark Steyn’s book “America Alone”. You would learn that Islam is spreading EVERYWHERE! It’s not the pseudo-secular, moderate Islam that is spreading. It is radical, fundamentalist Islam of the Wahabe sect. Europe, Russia, Asia, South and Central America, and in the US. You might even learn a few things that could lead to your own self-preservation. Liberals like you won’t fare very well under Sharia law. Do you know what fundamentalist muslims do to people like you? They crush them under boulders…LITERALLY. Me, all I have to do is convert and grow my beard if the radicals win. You, and your ilk are toast. If this isn’t enough for you, do your own damn research, you annoying little sop.
Mando said on 7 Feb 2008 at 9:56 am:
EXACTLY MY POINT!!!!!
Thank you
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 7 Feb 2008 at 10:00 am:
I agree. Once we stop making policy based on political correctness the sooner we can move on to bigger and better things.
I do not understand why we have to walk on egg shells for certain groups of people.
“Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 9:39 am:
So Medic, just to clarify. You think there is no oppression of black people as a population in the United States today? You think systematic discrimination has ended?”
Gag…retch…cough…
Leila, your class/race/gender/sexual orientation/immigration status agruments make me want to puke. Shouldn’t you be smoking dope or getting an abotion or something, campaigning for Hillary, marching on behalf of MSF and WWC or something?
Medic, exactly. Illegal alien supporters don’t understand what the definition of “equality” means.
Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 10:04 am:
Your argument here holds no water. They may have had the exact qualifications and resumes, BUT they may not have had the same demeanor or attitude in the interview. There is no way to say how it will turn out scientifically when all of the variables are not the same.
Personality, attitude and appearance weigh greatly in getting a job. If someone comes in thinking they deserve the job because of the color of their skin, then that is a problem going towards attitude. The company may not want someone like that since they have a feeling of entitlement. They would not be hired.
We currently have a black man running with a legitimate shot at becoming the next POTUS. We have a black woman serving as Secretary of State. Nothing is perfect, but we have come VERY far as a nation since Selma.
Dr. King wanted everyone to be judged by the content of their character, and not the color of their skin. I have to agree wtih Medic to a certain extent that having your own pagent and TV network seems to work against this sentiment. I think Black History month is important, but wish it were more integrated into regular history. It seems like we create a history apart from each other, the way things are taught. For example, we learn about Frederick Douglass, but not about the many, many white people that assisted him in his cause.
One would have to be very ignorant of the media stories and recent events around the world to think that the growth of radical islam is not happening in every nation around the world. I guess maybe we should pay some think tank to study the issue, and confirm what everyone can see for themselves.
Batson, you appear to have a compulsion to be vulgar. Why is that? Apart from problems with English, your attempts to dismiss me are kind of pathetic. I do not require an abortion or a fix and I am not a Hillary supporter. I just asked whether Medic thought there was no more institutional oppression of black people in the US. Apparently he and several others of you do. End of story.
***Mando, So for example, systematic studies of discrimination in employment, housing, etc. using test subjects with identical resumes or qualifications are all bogus? There is no *systematic* or institutional discrimination in the United States based on race?***
Links to these systematic studies please.
And what would they prove? Racial bias at worst and that goes both ways. Oppression? Please…
Jose Juarez has more of a chance at getting a job at the local Mercado then Bill Whiteguy. Is this… shudder… institutional discrimation or racial bias?
Mr. Anon, I don’t know it being a problem in *every* nation of the world’s nearly 200 nations. But I would agree the growth of radical Islam is a problem. However Islam is a religion of one billion people and is very diverse. The notion that every new convert to Islam or every indigenous Muslim is radical or is likely to become radical is ludicrous. There are plenty of devout Muslims whose religious beliefs do not translate into political radicalism, and there are plenty of nominal Muslims whose observance is like many nominal Christians, ie. centered on the ritual occasions of life, births, marriages, deaths, and holidays.
It would be very dangerous to minimize the threat of extremist Islam-based terrorism, but it is equally dangerous to make the kinds of statements one sees far too often in the media and here on BVBL about Islam. Most Americans don’t even understand the differences between Sunni and Shia Islam. I would guess most who even know those divisions exist couldn’t name another of the many Muslim sects if their lives depended on it. Most Americans would be surprised to learn the most populous Muslim country is nowhere near the Middle East.
Medic (@8:55)
I couldn’t agree you more regarding Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.
If blacks really want true equality, then they should do away with the
Negro College Fund, Black Miss USA, etc. etc. Sorry you think we are
on your ass, but you do need to lighten up (no pun intended) when it
comes to classifying folk.
Who made the assumption that “every new convert to Islam or every indigenous Muslim is radical or is likely to become radical”? I certainly didn’t.
“It would be very dangerous to minimize the threat of extremist Islam-based terrorism, but it is equally dangerous to make the kinds of statements one sees far too often in the media and here on BVBL about Islam.” What statements are you referring to, specifically? There are no words or statements that are as dangerous as minimizing the threat. Words aren’t dangerous. Actions are. Have we forgotten about 9/11/2001 already?
Mando, what would be the point of my providing you with citations for social-science studies if you have already decided that you know their conclusions and that their conclusions don’t matter.
However if you really want them, you can start with the HUD studies and move on to others. Among academic studies, there is, to take just one example, one by researchers at the University of Chicago Business School from 2004.
“Abstract:
We perform a field experiment to measure racial discrimination in the labor market. We respond with fictitious resumes to
help-wanted ads in Boston and Chicago newspapers. To manipulate perception of race, each resume is randomly assigned either a very African American sounding name or a very White sounding name. The results show significant discrimination against African-American names: White names receive 50 percent more callbacks for interviews. We also find that race affects the benefits of a better resume. For White names, a higher quality resume elicits 30 percent more callbacks whereas for African Americans, it elicits a far smaller increase. Applicants living in better neighborhoods receive more callbacks but, interestingly, this effect does not differ by race. The amount of discrimination is uniform across occupations and industries. Federal contractors and employers who list “Equal Opportunity Employer” in their ad discriminate as much as other employers. We find little evidence that our results are driven by employers inferring something other than race, such as social class, from the names. These results suggest that racial discrimination is still a prominent feature of the labor market.”
The abstract is here. I can point you to the paper if you want it. I can also point you to others, but honestly you have already suggested that no findings will mean anything to you. If you wanted to inform yourself, you could easily do it. However you have made up your mind.
Mr. Anon said on 7 Feb 2008 at 10:26 am:
Dr. King wanted everyone to be judged by the content of their character, and not the color of their skin. I have to agree wtih Medic to a certain extent that having your own pagent and TV network seems to work against this sentiment. I think Black History month is important, but wish it were more integrated into regular history. It seems like we create a history apart from each other, the way things are taught. For example, we learn about Frederick Douglass, but not about the many, many white people that assisted him in his cause.
___________________
I agree 100%!! That is my point. Why have the divide? Doesn’t that make it appear to have a sense of entitlement?
___________________
Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 10:29 am:
No I do not think there is nearly as much as 40 years ago. I feel it is diminishing exponentially to the point of non existence. Look at the levels black people have achieved.
As Mr. Anon said on 7 Feb 2008 at 10:26 am:
We currently have a black man running with a legitimate shot at becoming the next POTUS. We have a black woman serving as Secretary of State. Nothing is perfect, but we have come VERY far as a nation since Selma.
_____
We have also had a black general running a war. The oppression is no more, they have broken through. It seems to me that when blacks do not get their way or a decision goes against them, they play the race card. It is getting old and needs to stop.
Gone Fishing said on 7 Feb 2008 at 10:53 am:
How would you suggest I classify people?
Is it because I am not politically correct that bothers you?
I am being sincere and not a smart a$$ here.
Medic, your dubious formatting makes it appear that I said something that you are saying. Please make it clearer. You could add “In response to” or some such.
Leila,
You and yours are pushing this country to the edge of ruin. I have no patience for you. If you see vulgarity in my contempt for liberals like you, I see your constant playing of race/gender/class arguments as equally vulgar and down-right insulting. After you finish Mark Steyn’s book, pick up a copy of Bernie Goldberg’s “100 People Who Are Screwing up America”. While you won’t appear on this list, I am sure that many who inspire you and your crowd are there.
Oh, my only “problem” with English is that it isn’t our official language…yet.
Batson, exactly how have I made constant arguments that way? These are my first postings in a while and most of my postings in the past have not been on this issue. You appear to want to lump any and all opponents together.
If you can’t see vulgarity in terms like puke or in suggestions that I should be getting an abortion or smoking dope, then I guess your understanding of manners differs from mine and is clearly of the barnyard variety. You apparently use such language because you don’t have any actual arguments. You resort to insults first thing with several people here on BVBL as others have noticed. It’s a pattern. I am asking why it is a pattern.
As for English, you are correct. I should not have picked up on your two typos in a very short statement. They were irrelevant. We all make them. BVBL’ers may make them more than most, but that’s to be endured.
I don’t have a crowd. You already made a very stupid assumption about who I back for president. That reveals that you actually know next to nothing about my politics.
Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 11:12 am:
That is why I post the date and time stamp. This way if you have made another comment in the mean time, it can not be confused as to whci post I am referring to.
Leila, I think the researchers in your study (four years old, by the way) show some inherent racism. What constitutes a white name or a black name? What bias is the researcher inserting into the study to shape the outcomes?
These types of surveys are troubling. I’ve seen the networks do similar types of “research” before. One that comes to mind is a story that NBC did several years ago about taxicabs. They tried to show that blacks were less likely to be picked up by whites. The study had a white man in a suit attempt to get picked up by a cab. The other participant was a black man wearing an army jacket, worn jeans, and dreadlocks. Suprisingly, the white business man was picked up much more frequently.
Again, I am not saying racism is dead. I am troubled by the fact that we as a nation don’t take more pride and credit for the great strides that have been made. I’d like to see the next president deal with the racial divides that exist, many of which are based on perceptions and history rather than the conditions that exist today.
Leila, you probably support….Hillary, Obama, or McCain…all amnesty candidates right?
Multi-culturalism promotes separation of people! Doesn’t anyone get this yet? It creates divisions based on a person’s ethnicity/religion. It does NOT promote equality of ALL PEOPLE (like the melting pot does). Why is this so hard for liberals to understand???
“You already made a very stupid assumption about who I back for president.”
Sorry…backing Obama then? Hillary, Obama, not a lick of difference on their positions and politics.
I know a lot about your politics. You are a liberal. It comes through in all of your cutsie little comments, and your insipid rhetorical questions. Yes, I do attack the messenger, and I can get bare-knuckled at times. I don’t fight “fair”, but the only ones complaining are those who agree with your liberal point of view…your crowd.
Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 11:23 am:
BVBL’ers may make them more than most, but that’s to be endured.
——————————————-
Now isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black. No pun intended!
Have you forgotten that YOU are one of those BVBl’ers to be endured? One word comes to mind: POMPOUS!
Leila said on 7 Feb 2008 at 11:01 am:
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p107423_index.html
Abstract: In this article we posit that racial discrimination is not uniform across the U.S. labor market. While it is likely that patterns of racial discrimination occur more in some types of jobs more than others, little empirical research exists which examines the effect of race across segmented labor markets. Incorporating two decades of comparable data sets from GSS data, this article revisits William J. Wilson¡¯s hypothesis that the significance of race in determining labor market outcomes is declining. We examine the effect of race within two dissimilar labor segments over time, dividing the labor market into technique versus social-skill orientated segments. Using this theoretically useful dichotomy, we examine if the net effect of race (African-American and White men) on occupational prestige from the 1970s to the 1990s has declined. Empirical results indicate that this theoretically driven dichotomy is meaningful. Our multivariate analyses show that the net effect of race is different in each labor market. This suggests that racial discrimination against African Americans is not uniform across the entire labor market, but instead differentiately manifested with various labor market segments. Overall, our findings partially support Wilson¡¯s thesis indicating that while the effect of race is no longer a significant indicator of occupational prestige by the 1990s in a technique oriented job segment, it remains a significant predictive variable within ¡®social-skill orientated¡¯ job segment, even when controlling for a range of social class and structural variables.
_______________________________
As you can see, it is not as bad as it was in regards to prestige, which goes to my comment earlier; No, I do not think there is nearly as much as 40 years ago. I feel it is diminishing exponentially to the point of non existence.
I would be interested in seeing a study done in the last 2 years since this one is from the 1990’s.
Why are all you white guys so upset about multi-culturalism? Could it be that you’re having to share the power that was yours for so long based soley on race and gender? Where were you in the Jim Crow South or where were you when females weren’t admitted to Virginia’s universities because of their gender? (I realize that some of you may not have been born yet.) You want to say that everything is equal now and that groups centered around ethnicity, race, and gender shouldn’t exist. Why…because for once you’re excluded?
Mr. Anon said on 7 Feb 2008 at 11:34 am:
That is what I am talking about. Racism was already inserted into the study to get the desired results. How can it be a fair study if the names were already racist?
__________________________________
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 7 Feb 2008 at 11:36 am:
Because it gives them the warm and fuzzy that being politically correct gives them.
They have to be sure not to offend anyone. Our society is going to ruin by supporting this crap. I was picked last at times and it was because I wasn’t that good at the particular game we were playing. I was picked first at games I was good at. BIG DEAL!!! It is called life and people, life isn’t fair!
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 11:55 am:
Because those who support this type of society set it up to be one with a sense of entitlement.
It isn’t about loosing power, believe me. It is about loosing what America is. It is about hyphenated America. It as gone to the other extreme instead of sitting in the middle. That is the problem, they wanted equality, they got it and now they want to push it to the other extreme. We are no different than others when they were fighting for their equality, yet get accused of being on a high horse because “We are loosing power”.
” Our society is going to ruin by supporting this crap.”
Easy Medic…”Leila” might accuse you of being vulgar, even though what you speak is the truth. Life isn’t fair.
Medic, no one seemed to worry much about entitlement in the 50’s and 60’s when the shoe was on the other foot. How many people cared that women were routinely excluded from state schools which they supported with their tax dollars…regardless of their grades or qualifications? How many people were worried about Virginia’s public education system when public schools closed rather than integrate? How many of those entitled white males cared? (George Allen’s macaca moment was white male entitlement captured on video and ,luckily, Virginians responded the right way that time..otherwise we’d probably have another entitled white man running for Prez now.)
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 11:55 am:
“Why are all you white guys so upset about multi-culturalism? Could it be that you’re having to share the power that was yours for so long based soley on race and gender? Where were you in the Jim Crow South or where were you when females weren’t admitted to Virginia’s universities because of their gender? (I realize that some of you may not have been born yet.) You want to say that everything is equal now and that groups centered around ethnicity, race, and gender shouldn’t exist. Why…because for once you’re excluded?”
I never had any “power”; I am a working stiff just like you probably are. Most of us weren’t around for the Jim Crow South or when females were not admitted to universities. Were you there? I’d like to know more about those experiences if you were.
Why do you want groups centerd around race and gender? You mention all of the past inequities in your post. The many people who fought to change things didn’t do so just to create minority groups and sex-based groups. The idea was to knock down the barriers and be one people. I suggest to you that the need to exclude people is racism at its core.
Mr. Anon, yes , I was there. My high school wasn’t integrated until I was a Senior. Our churches were segregated. Our minister tried to bridge the divide by having the Black church’s choir sing at our church. The big brouhaha revolved around where to seat the choir members parents if they showed up…the balcony.
I took a math and science oriented curriculum in high school with the intention of becoming an engineer. My father was transferred during my Senior year so I looked at schools in two states. I could only attend the engineering college in the state where I graduated if I were married, 21, and went to night school. In Virginia, the schools were gender- segregated. I missed the deadline for applying at William & Mary (one of the few colleges not as biased at the rest) and don’t know that I would have been accepted anyway. A classmate of mine’s father threatened to sue UVa and VPI for discriminating against his daughters who wanted to pursue engineering degrees. Around this time (late 60’s) the barriers fell. When I married -after living in Virginia for five years - GMU tried to charge me out-of-state tuition because my husband, who had just gotten out of the military five months earlier, hadn’t been a Virginia resident for a year. Those a just a few examples.
Hell…we can’t even trust law enforcement in the area to clear the 7-11’s…why expect more….
Word on the street is Romney is dropping out….McCain is the poster boy of amnesty…..
Anonymoustoo, thanks for sharing those examples. I think that illustrates how much things have changed for the better. So, having lived through that, why would you want to encourage groups that favor discrimination based on race or sex? Isn’t this really taking a step backwards?
Revolution is coming, and I’m not talking this silly Obama cult crap.
Mr. Anon, I don’t feel the need to belong to an all white female group, but some people may benefit from such an organization. Let me give an example:
I was the only female in my high school calculus class and one of only three in my physics class. I wouldn’t have wanted to be in an all female class…I wanted to know how I competed against the whole field. But… I think there’s still a reluctance for females to pursue higher math, and if sitting in an all female class makes a person more comfortable - to the point of pursuing that field later - then I’m for that option. I have no children in the PWC school system so probably shouldn’t broach the subject of how the teaching of math (with its current controversy) is being handled, but I wonder if some of the changes are to bring about another way of “seeing” math.
Professional and fraternal organizations exist in all walks of life. White guys talking business at an exclusive club is no different.
Why Anonymoustoo, of course you could have gone to UVA, IF and only IF you had gone in to nursing or had been an education major. That’s what my mother had to do, and she was a home girl whose father was a graduate.
What is all this disbelief crap? I was actually sitting here thinking that Anonymoustoo probably said the smartest thing I have read all day.
When you own the power, it isn’t quite as obvious as it is when you don’t own the power. Are we talking about some sort of denial? Some of us were around during the times mentioned: before integration, before women were allowed to attend state supported schools with full academic priviledge, before Jews weren’t allowed at most non-Jewish country clubs, before women were allowed in the Press Club…..the list goes on and on.
Just what is it that you folks do not understand?
Right, Dolph. And all you have to do is look at the current field of candidates for Prez. Why is it so different?!!! Because we have a black man and a woman running in a field long monopolized by white men.
Woodbridge Middle School has an opt-in gender segregated program. You might want to contact Skyles Calhoun for further information. AAUW has completed a great deal of research on how different teaching styles favor either males or females.
hmmm…AAUW….another one of them thar she-male groups.
Mr. Anon, how about a few examples of groups that discriminate based on gender or race. I am sure there are some that I might agree with you on. On the other hand, as we all learned in Poly Sci 101, the pendulum swings back and forth when change has occurred. There are still men only enclaves. Hint: RTJ Golf Course has one. There will always be racially and gender exclusivity. I just don’t think people can help themselves.
I’m a white male in my early 30’s in a professional job (programmer), I know that I was passed over on a promotion about three years ago for someone of a different race that had less experience, less of a knowledge base. How is that fair? I wasn’t around in the 60’s and never experienced what the generation before went thru but I’m paying for their mistakes now. How can that be fair to me?
Mr. Anon said on 7 Feb 2008 at 12:19 pm:
I couldn’t have said it better. That post is exactly what I had thought after I read the response about the 50’s and 60’s.
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Get out of the past and live in today!!! Yes, I agree things were not the best in the past, but there have been strides to make things much better. I agree with Mr. Anon in that I do not believe that those who fought so hard for equality meant for it to go to the other extreme.
Rt1Resident said on 7 Feb 2008 at 2:05 pm:
Exactly why the quota system and political correctness were crap then and are crap now.
You were discriminated against, but you don’t have a leg to stand on because the white man has all the power.
Rt1Resident, that’s probably happened to most of us for similar reasons. I think in the end, if you’re good at what you do, you’ll get the promotion. Sometimes I think management hires a less qualified person whom they know has the ability to learn quickly in order to diversify the workforce. That diversity will make their other employees see that field as an option to pursue. Sometimes a field will always be skewed to white men if those hires aren’t made…simply because they’ve monopolized those fields and will always win if hires are made merely by seniority.
Medic, have you looked at the composition of the BOCS or the City Council…tell me how much diversity you see there.
Dolph and anonymoustoo, I think you are mininterpreting me. First of all, I asked for examples because I wanted to know, not out of any spirit of meanness. Second of all, I don’t dispute at all that those things cited, and many far worse than that, truly happened. I maintain that things are better today, and we don’t do ourselves any good by constantly looking back.
I am in favor of separating classes by genders. This does not have anything to do with the discussion, because no group is given an upper hand or advantage over another.
The white guys with power you refer to earn salaries in the high six figures and/or come from affluent families. I couldn’t get on the RTJ golf course in a million years. I certainly wish I had some power sometimes, but I am just a working class white man trying to raise my kids right, treat my wife to something close to the lifestyle she deserves, and stay out of the poor house. Nobody gave anything to me; I worked my way through college, actually had to save for the downpayment on my house, and went without a car for a while until I could afford one. There were no handouts, no special privledges given. I don’t have any study to prove it, but I daresay that my story is similar to most white men you would meet in society.
But please continue to think this way if you wish. However, it is very invigorating to kick away the crutches and decide that success or failure rests on your own shoulders and not someone else’s.
Mr. Anon, I don’t take any offense to what you’ve said. I think you’ve done what most middle class men and women have done. But you don’t have to have a six-figure income to be part of the power structure. As I mentioned to Medic, merely look at the composition of the BOCS or City Council and see how unrepresentative they are.
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 2:22 pm:
How many other types of people ran for those offices? That is not a valid point since those who ran are white. You need to come up with another example.
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Mr. Anon said on 7 Feb 2008 at 2:23 pm:
“However, it is very invigorating to kick away the crutches and decide that success or failure rests on your own shoulders and not someone else’s.”
Exactly how I feel!! The Katrina disaster comes to mind. The sense of entitlement just floored me. Yes, it was a disaster and it was sad to see those people hurting and suffering. However, they went out and started looting and acting like fools, once they started that, I lost all compassion for their plight. When one lives in such an area they have to accept some responsibility for what happens to them. You live BELOW sea level, expect it to flood you out sometime sooner or later…..HELLLOOO!!!!!!
anonymoustoo, why do you think all white people are the same? Did you not know that Germans, Scandinavians, Norwegians, English, Australians, etc. are all culturally different? How do you know the BOCS is not diverse? What do you base you criteria on….skin color?
Medic, think about how they got in position to run for those offices. Sure, some of it involves family connections, but how many large local businesses are run by women? Do military credentials carry any weight with you? The majority of candidates with that background will be men. I don’t get involved in party politics, but how many people in charge of either/both parties in the City and county are women? If not 50%, why not? Why aren’t the parties actively recruiting qualified women? Who knows, maybe they are trying…
You seem to lump an awful lot of people in with the looters in New Orleans. You know, there are probably people out there that would think that we as DC area residents are foolish for sticking around a potential terrorist target and shouldn’t be bailed out of our foolishness if anything happened.
Patriot has a point. Anyone who has ever been out of the US, even to Canada, can appreciate how culturally different even, gasp, white people are.
Those folks in government you mention are placed there by blacks, hispanics, asians, and whites. The color of their skin is not the issue, nor their income or family history. They are by definition REPRESENTATIVE.
The law does not require that the cultural makeup of a governing body reflect that of its citizenry. Is that what you are advocating?
Dolph-why are you so nasty and condescending?
Patriot, I don’t think they’re all the same. But I see mainly conservative (some moderates), middle and upper-middle class, Christian men. (If you think they’re spouting German, Scandinavian, or Australian philosophy, I’d be interested in hearing it.) And if you weren’t interested in that rigid sameness, you probably wouldn’t be complaining about some uber liberal stance that one of them occasionally takes on an issue.
anonymoustoo, your argument is ridiculous! Wow, you really are out to lunch are you not? You are basing your argument on skin color. I set the trap and you fell right into it just like I thought you would. There are just as many people of other colors who are conservative, Christian, etc.
Mr. Anon, how are they ,as our representatives, going to know which issues are important to their female or minority constituents? As far as voting them in…well most of the time I vote for the lesser of two evils presented to me by the two parties. (I’m an Independent.) This time around, I may actually get a chance to vote “for” someone.
anonymoustoo said “merely look at the composition of the BOCS or City Council and see how unrepresentative they are.”
Note….merely “look” at….
That says it all. Your argument is based on skin color.
“There are just as many people of other colors who are conservative, Christian, etc.”
Yeah, but are they on the BOCS or Council? No.
I also suppose you are a “feminist” anonymoustoo? That is an extreme position too you know.
Alot of feminists discriminate against men.
Anonymoustoo….you see…..you did fall for my trap and you admit it! WOW!
“Note….merely “look” at….
That says it all. Your argument is based on skin color.”
Just taking a note from the Patriot playbook. You know, the one where you can spot an illegal alien by how Hispanic he/she looks…
anonymoustoo…when you can find the statement I said to back up what you just said at 3:15pm….I will chalk that up to a loss for me….I will be waiting for any quotes.
A feminist? I’m lazy when it comes to philosophies. I support women’s rights. I’m married to a guy so I suppose I don’t hate men….just find many conservative men a bit uptight and priggish.
What I have said is that hispanics/latinos are the largest group of people to abuse our immigration system….and I have provided the research to back up those statements (particularly from the DHS).
Patriot, how about your comments about the loiterers at Blooms? And I’m not about to go searching for those comments.
I said that their were hispanics/latinos loitering. I never said that they were illegal? How would I know that? But please, find the quotes to back up your statements….you are back peddling!
Why would you care if they were Hispanic and loitering? Do you care if Scandinavians are loitering?
anonymoustoo….I already explained why. It was their behavior! If anyone was doing that I wouldn’t like it. However, the only people that I have seen do this at that particular location were hispanics/latinos. Good enough answer for you? Because that is old news. Now, how about that BOCS, you seem to base your diversity argument on skin color. What about that?
Rt1Resident,
It isn’t fair to you. It also isn’t right. It wasn’t in the past when shoes were on other feet either. 2 wrongs do not make a right. In a few years you can add age to the list of subtle discriminations.
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 3:11 pm:
“Mr. Anon, how are they ,as our representatives, going to know which issues are important to their female or minority constituents? ”
Perhaps they ask their constituents?
Maybe I am in the minority, but I like to see what a candidate’s stance is on key issues before I vote for them. I don’t accept the premise that you have to be of a specific race/sex in order to know what’s important to people. Further, I hope you would contact your representative to TELL them what is important to you. We live in a democratic republic, not a plutocracy.
Tell me how the BOCS, with the exception of Maureen Caddigan, is different from what I said…mainly conservative (some moderate), middle and upper-middle class, Christian men… and white. That is not representative of PWC as a whole. If you’re so gung-ho to promote diversity on the BOCS, seeing as how you don’t think that the above description is somewhat monolithic, what steps are you going to take to see that Latino, female, African-American, the poor, other minorities, the handicapped, the younger, etc. are represented? Or will you continue to support more candidates that think just as you do…everyone else be damned.
I am ready to sell popcorn to this one.
anonymoustoo appears to be on the ropes grasping at straws to stay on her feet, while The Patriot seems to be able to get in close enough to connect.
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anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 2:59 pm:
I was referring to those who started the looting, I didn’t say anything about loosing compassion for those who tried to get out and didn’t participate in the looting, you ASSUMED that.
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anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 3:11 pm:
They will know when you bring up the issue to them in a board meeting or a direct conversation with them. Please stop playing the PMS card. PMS = Poor Me Syndrome
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Mr. Anon said on 7 Feb 2008 at 3:01 pm:
You are correct, many different types of people voted them in.
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anonymoustoo, If you are not happy with the way the BOCS looks, then run in the next election
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 3:39 pm:
If a Latino, female, African-American, the poor, other minorities, the handicapped, the younger, etc. run and they share my views, they will get my vote. Until they run, your argument holds no water. People vote for who they think will get the job done and who are RUNNING for the job.
My 3:39 comment was for Patriot.
Mr. Anon, I do write my representatives. And I’ll probably be voting for Obama or Clinton because of the issues that matter to me, not because of gender. The vote for Clinton will be a vote of last resort.
Mr. Anon,
What you have described could have been any of us. I don’t instinctively go around thinking ‘poor me, I have been victimized by eons on oppressions.’ On the other hand, failure to acknowledge the past, especially on the part of those of us who know first hand would also be very wrong.
I can remember being a privileged little white girl on a bus asking my mother why the ‘colored people’ (and that was the polite term back when I was a child) had to ride in the back of the bus. The entire concept of segregation made no sense to me as a little kid.
Now in reality, I wasn’t privileged. My mother didn’t work and my father was a high school coach. No big bucks there. I cite this to show that privilege is relative. I certainly didn’t feel the privilege but I bet some adult black man or woman on the back of that bus sure did, as a little white child of age four sat up in the comfortable front seats.
Sorry Patriot, I had to get that one in. It aggravates me when people shout that certain people are not represented when that group of people are not running to be voted for.
Elected officials represent all of the people. Or, that is what they are supposed to do. So, if we have it your way, anonymoustoo, then you’d have politicians representing your group(s) and be damned with all others.
So, Medic, do you think the two parties are actively recruiting strong minority or female candidates? Afterall, the parties are the one who put the candidates out there for us to vote on.
Actually, I find you to be the whiny one. Most men I know don’t grouse about women or minorities being given “privileges”. And , yes, many of these men have been passed over for promotions at one time or another, but they applied again and prevailed.
So, TDB, I hope you aren’t one of those on this blog complaining about Supervisor Nohe - who represents his district well.
“So, if we have it your way, anonymoustoo, then you’d have politicians representing your group(s) and be damned with all others.”
Kinda like what happened with the “resolution”…the Board didn’t bother with public hearings to get the input of the entire community.
What the hell? They had 14 hours of input from the entire community, including that woman that told them to kiss her ass.
Dolph said on 7 Feb 2008 at 3:45 pm:
Mr. Anon,
“What you have described could have been any of us. I don’t instinctively go around thinking ‘poor me, I have been victimized by eons on oppressions.’ On the other hand, failure to acknowledge the past, especially on the part of those of us who know first hand would also be very wrong. ”
I am starting to think we are discussing different subjects. In every post, I have restated that there were terrible wrongs committed in the past. It has been acknowledged, numerous times. The past cannot be denied, but it is not our present,and should not be our future.
What I described COULD be any of us, and that’s exactly my point. The vast majority of us are in the same boat, and we’ll all be a lot happier when we look to ourselves for success and stopping looking for reasons to make us think we can’t succeed. Continuing to look backwards only continues to create divisions and animosity among groups.
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 3:52 pm
Me, whiney? LOL I think you are just trying to get everyone stirred up. I am not going to even respond to that crap.
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MP Resident said on 7 Feb 2008 at 4:01 pm:
(sarcasm on)
That doesn’t count since all of the respondents were not female or Hispanic. You should know this!!!
(sarcasm off)
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jfk said on 7 Feb 2008 at 4:07 pm:
That is how I feel as well. By rehashing the past, you can not heal from it. The scar is still there to remind you of what happened, but it will not heal if you don’t quit picking at it. I feel that Jesse and AL are trying to keep the past in today and continue to pick at the sore every chance they get. It will never heal to the point where people can move on until they are dead and gone. As I have posed the question before, The Duke players were INNOCENT, where is Al to apologize and lend a helping hand to the young men to get their reputations back in order? When the issue is against a black person, they are all over it even if they are wrong. They demand an apology and usually get it, yet when they are in the wrong, they do not apologize. How is that Christian?
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 3:52 pm:
Do these people make themselves available to be recruited? I challenge you to run for the BOCS next election cycle. Let those in your party know right now you are interested in the nomination. Show the letter you write and give us your name. If your views are in line with mine, I will vote for you. Otherwise, give it up, you are wasting everyone’s time. Basically, put up or shut up.
Medic, I have no party. And I’m not interested in being on the BOCS .I don’t think I have the breadth of knowledge necessary to do a good job…plus, I don’t suffer fools easily. And I don’t think you’re in position to tell me to shut up or run since that’s Greg’s job (at least the “shut up” part)…unless you’re Greg. And as I said, I don’t suffer fools…
anonymoustoo said on 7 Feb 2008 at 4:47 pm
Ahh, so why should we be forced to put people on the board to make pretty colors for you if they are not qualified? You are the one complaiing about it, the put up or shut up is an old saying, how about this one, put your money where your mouth is or either $hit or get off the pot, any old cliche’ will work here.
Basically, stop complaining about it if you are not willing to run for the position you claim is not representative of you.
M64,
A black man ran for Gainesville Supervisor and a woman ran for Supervisor at Large. They didn’t win. But they did run.
Patriot, I have never laid eyes on any of the Manassas City Council members. I somehow know that there are a bunch of white males at the helm. Now why is that? In my world, ‘take a look at’ doesn’t necessarily mean to visually observe.
What kind of person evaluates a conversation, even a written conversation, in terms of who is on the ropes? Can all parties not make valid points? Why must everything here be in terms of pulling wings off flies? That makes no sense to me. I have an adult son and daughter. I am keenly aware of challenges people of both genders face socially and in the work place.
Perhaps one of the biggest challenges for men and women is that the rules have changed a great deal and many people simply are not comfortable with the new ones.
Dolph said on 7 Feb 2008 at 4:58 pm:
Thank you for that information. Just solidifies my point I am trying to make to anonymoustoo. If the people that she feels would represent her the best run and have the views shared by the voters, they WILL get elected.
“What kind of person evaluates a conversation, even a written conversation, in terms of who is on the ropes?”
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A person trying to bring in some humor and lighten the mood a bit. I also stated I was going to sell popcorn, now who in the world can buy popcorn from me right now?
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“Perhaps one of the biggest challenges for men and women is that the rules have changed a great deal and many people simply are not comfortable with the new ones.”
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I do not see it as uncomfortable but trying to cope with the reverse discrimination.
M64,
You are an intelligent guy, you know Anonymoustoo is not complaining, she is commenting. This discussion on this thread is turning into that old expression ….if a man complains he is justified, if a woman complains she is being a bitch. Let’s not play that game here.
Anonymoustoo pointed something out. She wasn’t complaining. The majority of our local elected officials are middle class white moderate to conservative males. Observation. Historically, the most local governing bodies have been middle class white moderate to conservative males.
You might not have noticed because you are a middle class white moderate to conservative male. If you are in the club, you don’t notice. If you aren’t in the club, you notice a lot more. It is human nature. However, you will probably find that vintage women, such as Anonymoustoo and I (and also Krusty), are more keenly aware of such things, mainly because we lived through times when some of these things would not have been possible.
M64,
I liked the popcorn remark. I wasn’t accusing you of doing the fly thing. That was directed at Mr. Patriot.
As for reverse discrimination, I don’t blame you. And it is out there. I have also been a victim of it as well as age discrimination. I have a son and a husband. Both of them have also been victims. Gender, race, and age seem to be the 3 biggest areas of discrimination.
In many respects, the pendulum has swung too far the other way…again, poly sci 101. I think what we want is balance…and in a perfect world, we would have it.
I’m think I’m through with this discussion. Medic, jfk, and Patriot have all tried to make the same point, but the “vintage women” want to believe there is a club out there they are not part of. I guess our cover is blown.
By the way, M64 and all other white guys, don’t forget about our “meeting” tomorrow night at 7:00. Same place, RTJ clubhouse. No dumb girls allowed! Especially old ones!
Dolph,
You are not vintage, you are timeless with years of wisdom. (and a good swimmer too ~splash~)
Ok we shall not play the game. I too pointed something out, in that if she is not happy with the make up of the board, to run herself. I will extend that to also include anyone she can get to run that best represents her. I will stand by my word and will vote for that person if they are in line with my needs as a constituent.
In respect to the comment
“However, you will probably find that vintage women, such as Anonymoustoo and I (and also Krusty), are more keenly aware of such things, mainly because we lived through times when some of these things would not have been possible.”
Would you not agree that things have changed a great deal since the times you speak of? Haven’t they become better? Don’t women get higher paying jobs now? Don’t blacks get higher paying jobs now? Does a certain group have to sit at the back of the bus? Isn’t everyone that qualifies get to go to school as long as they have room?
Mr. Anon said on 7 Feb 2008 at 5:21 pm:
Crap, I forgot the secret code and handshake already…..
How about Hooters? That would be a definite turn off for the ladies!!!
Nice comments, Dolph. We say we want balance, but wouldn’t that make everything come to a stand-still, and that aint good either. - My daughter joined the Army in the late 70s, and I tell you, she knows about discrimination. Don’t know whether the military has changed in that respect or not.
Anyway, things ARE changing. We have a woman and a “1/2-black” man running for the highest office in the country for the first time in the history of the USA. That’s CHANGE, whether they win or lose and I for one, think it’s a step forward.
Dolph said on 7 Feb 2008 at 5:17 pm:
“In many respects, the pendulum has swung too far the other way…again, poly sci 101. I think what we want is balance…and in a perfect world, we would have it.”
Very true. It has gone form one extreme to the other.
BTW, I am getting close to the age discrimination age as well.