"We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge" - Barack Obama (aka President Malaise)
Pitch in with the Prince William Young Republicans and help defeat Obama in 2012!
Leaving Out The Important Details
By Greg L | 16 February 2008 | Crime, Prince William County | 93 Comments
From today’s MJM:
Assault by Mob, occurred on February 11, 2008, around 5 p.m. in the 8000 block of Urbanna Road in the Manassas area. The victims, a 14-year-old Manassas-area girl and a 14-year-old Manassas-area boy, reported that they were walking at the location when they noticed a black, 4-door sports car filled with men dressed in black following them. The two victims said they began walking in a different direction and the car sped up and disappeared from view. As the two continued to walk, they said six men jumped out from behind a building and began to assault them. The accused are described as Hispanic males between the ages of 18 and 20. All were dressed similarly at the time of the incident in black hoodies with the hoods on, dark jeans, and dark shoes.
Although I am certain the facts related about this incident are accurate, it would have been helpful if the paper had identified this as the gang activity that it was. I am aware that this was just reporting what the police department provided in their briefing, but any crime reporter worth their pay would have immediately caught that this was gang-related and tried to follow this up.
MS-13 will always wear blue , so I suspect this was SUR-13, which has been tagging this area with black spray paint over the past several months. Field reports I’ve gotten indicate a perception within the latino community that only gang members wear black tennis shoes, and the identical dress and violent nature of this confrontation are consistent with gang activity.
We have a lot of eyes out there in the community, and we should be able to come up with some potential leads for the police to follow up on. Keep your eyes peeled.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed.
93 Comments
Views: 2255
Loading ...
Disgusting. Is the citizenry just going to lay down and take this bullshit?
SUR-13 has tagged Sudley Elem and Stonewall Middle since Christmas. I’ve gotten a report that MS-13 has now tagged the field house at Stonewall Middle. I will get pictures, and contact the police regarding this tagging.
I would like to know Make, Model, and color of the car involved in the incident. Of course of many questions about this story I liked to have some answers to.
Students walk to 3 Elem. schools and the middle school in our immediate area. Middle school students are walking home from after school activities about this time M-F. We must alert our students to be aware of their surroundings at all times now more than ever. We all must be do this.
The taggings have slowed down over the last couple of weeks, but look what is now happening.
PWCPD non-emergency number is 703-792-6500 if anybody was in the area at that time, and may have seen something call the police.
corr: Of course THERE ARE many questions about this story I liked to have some answers to.
Was this gang related? The MJM did not say yes or no. Were the victims Hispanic, white or black? The time and place of the attack disturbs me as a parent. Can we not walk upon the sidewalks of our own neighborhoods without fear of attack IN DAYLIGHT? My daughter walks over a half mile to get the bus each AM. Early, in the dark. I see many police cars in the Sudley neighborhood between 10AM and 4pm, but I can’t recollect many from 6:30 AM to 9:05AM when the majority of students either walk to school or stand on pitch black dark street corners. As a citizen and parent, I’d appreciate more of a presence from PWC police during this time.
Under no circumstances am I critisizing the police for they cannot be everywhere and criminals know this. The police cannot be relied on as the sole entity to stop crime or respond to it. Good people, both liberal and conservative, put a lot of stock in police stopping crime. Police presence can help prevent crime but unfortunately the police usually respond to crime; the act being commited.
One answer is to be more aware but a crime like this is nearly impossible to stop until it occurs. We do not arm our young ones sufficiently to protect themselves by affording them the correct information on how to define a possible attack/ situation and immediately begin to act to reduce or eliminate the effect.
Gang activity ramps up or on but what do we really do about it?
1. Immediately paint over tagging. Let them know that they do NOT own your neighborhood.
2. Open your eyes and ears. Call the police.
3. Don’t be afraid to report suspicious activity to the police.
4. If a person is being attacked, like these children, make your presence known, get on your cell phone and get accurate descriptions of vehicles, people, and clothing.
5. If the attack turns on you, be prepared to handle that and have a plan (or two). It is better to try and get them to move on with your visibility than confront.
6. Lethal force cannot be met with anything less. If a person is being brutalized or severely wounded, if you intervene, prepare for combat. If you have time to call for the police, fine. If not, you may have some hard choices coming in a few seconds.
The police should be the first choice but if time does not permit that, other choices, in dire situations, may have to be made to save a life or your own.
By the way my daughter will be attending Stonewall next year. My house IS a bus stop for Stonewall. I’ve already made plans with parents whose children will attend Stonewall next year to be the “bus stop house”, so to speak. My daughter has friends whose parents have to leave Manassas by 5:30 AM. I have agreed that they can drop their children off at my house. Not only can I offer their children warmth and safety while they wait for the bus in the pitch black neighborhood, but I can also be sure that their children actually get on the bus since I’m up and watching. I’m happy to accept any children for this (free) program. Just let me know.
Police respond to crimes in progress. Period. Sometimes. In this day and age of political correctness their presence alone is no deterrent to any criminal. Over 6 years ago at Sinclair elementary school the reality hit home. While little league football and cheerleading practice went on, groups of primarily Hispanic adults were hanging out, some playing basket ball and some drinking beer and some using the outside of the school for the urinal. A call to the police department resulted in zip. We were told that after school that is the domain of the park police and to call them. Two days later a person driving a park police vehicle drove through the parking lot. That was it. Just drove through. Call me crazy but adults hanging out and drinking at the school yard, after hours or not, is a problem. When the smaller infractions are not addressed, they wonder why it grows into the problems we have now.
ateacher,
That is really decent of you to do this. Many thanks.
——————————————————————————–
In general….do we really want a newspaper determining what is gang activity and what isn’t? I am not sure I want MJM stirring up things without verification from the police.
——————————————————————————–
As a matter of safety, Prince William County Schools need to be providing bus transportation for the kids who live across Strasburg. Given the change in demographics in this neighborhood, a bus needs to transport these kids. It is too far to walk. Same goes for the kids coming from Sudley School. Some of these kids are just walking too far.
ateacher,
That is very kind and gererous offer. My daughter will be riding the bus for the first time in her life next year when she starts SJHS.
Dolph,
I agree with about the busing to SMS and Sudley. The Queen has been walking from the furtherest walking block to both of these schools. I think the time has definately come that NEED additional bus stops. I know and understand transportation is large portion of the school budget. Our children’s safety is worthe every last red cent.
****************************
BE AWARE OF YOUR SURROUNDINGS AND ADVISE ALL YOU KNOW TO THE SAME.
Many of the parents that I agreed to bus stop sit for live just “over the border” in Westgate. Their children would rather/and do walk into into Sudley during the early dark hours to catch a bus that did not go thru Westgate. Go figure. I just want to be a parent that wants all to go to school, SAFELY. Since my house is a Stonewall bus stop I feel that it is important that I do my part to watch out for the children in my neighborhood. On my street corner it is SOOOOOO dark when the students are standing there, you cannot even make out a person. I just don’t feel that any child should have to put themselves in such a dangerous situation. That is why I welcome all into my home. The county may not care, but I do!
I could care less what color of skin the victims were, I DO care about who the perps were/are. Remember, the police ARE NOT here to protect us, they are here to clean up. “Protect and to Serve” is a tv show line, not reality. It is time to ramp this up a notch and let the bastards know this is OUR home…NOT theirs. It’s real easy, we KNOW where they live…do drivebys of their house. Have the police walk (yes, I said WALK) the streets. Take BACK the neighborhoods and get the county to provide better streetlights for ALL streets, not just the general public areas but where we live and go to school as well.
And if the ACLU comes to threaten a lawsuit, if the illegal apologists start to protest, then I say, “BRING IT THE F-ON!!!” Pardon my language, but it’s time for the gloves to come off. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.What the liberals call vigilanty justice our founding Fathers called something else, “Fighting for Freedom”!!!
Dolph said on 16 Feb 2008 at 8:05 pm:
“In general….do we really want a newspaper determining what is gang activity and what isn’t? I am not sure I want MJM stirring up things without verification from the police.”
In general, no. But in this case when it’s so obvious then the answer is yes. The reason is that drawing attention to the gang nature of the attack will elevate awareness to the general public and put a little pressure on the police to more frequently visit this area. Unfortunately, our little local paper is playing politics on the illegal immigration issue, so heaven forbid we call a group of hispanics attacking innocent children a “gang”. The publisher might be seen as a racist or, gasp, a xenophobe.
Layfette said “Our children’s safety is worth every last cent.” And I agree absolutely….Even when we receive 0 cents we can still form a protective barrier around our own children and the children of others, even when we work full time,we can still find a way to protect children. Neighborhood co-ops, bus stop monitors, safe homes, bus stop houses, etc. Our children are worth protecting. Let’s do it!
ateacher,
I’m so very blessed to work from home. Therefore, I do see an awful lot, and have no problem what so ever picking up my phone and calling the police, etc. We can NOT be complacent!
We must involved and active in our communities.
Gang information from PWCPD’s website. Please, take a look at it. It has a lot of useful information.
http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=010061000100003582
Dolph,
Yes, this does appear to a “gang” by definition. I think the MJM had this one right actually. Check out the link posted above.
Mr. Light,
Great post. They could also bring out the Equestrian Squad too. They have been using them in a nearby area. Yes, we need are police on “foot patrol” at this point in the game. Street lights for ALL streets should be mandatory. I’m sure Dolph will appreciate your thoughts on that matter. Her subdivision has NO STREET LIGHTS. I’ve always had to use highbeams to see in Sudley it is very dark over there.
Poor Dolph - that is absolutely HORRIBLE!!!! Please remind me what century we are in again???
JL,
On January 15 I emailed my Gainesville supervisor requesting street lights for Sudley subdivision. There currently are none in the entire neighborhood. It is very dark over here except for people keeping their porch lights on. Good lighting is one of the least expensive crime deterents there is.
To date, I have had no response. A month later. I am wondering if it is necessary to go down in person and publically beg. Supervisor Jenkins has been very effective getting lighting for his district. Too bad Gainesville isn’t as responsive as Neabsco District.
I don’t feel it is possible to take back my neighborhood. I called in a home on my street to neighborhood services that had 2 refrigerators on the front porch..right on the main drag. The next week I had neighborhood services paying a call on me over a bag of soil in my driveway. Sounded like a pay back to me. A bag of Miracle Grow soil! The agent did agree that I had no violations.
My county at work. Intimidation through neighborhood services and being ignored after a month by my supervisor. What was that F word you used? Seems appropriate right now.
Lafayette said on 16 Feb 2008 at 6:13 pm:
corr: Of course THERE ARE many questions about this story I liked to have some answers to.
Remember some time ago that people (myself included) would put a sign (I forget just what it was as it was so long ago) in a front window which would indicate there was a place for a kid to seek help or assistance if they were experiencing a problem. Maybe that program can be reestablished in the neighborhoods in coordination with the police department.
Maybe this would be a good case for the supervisors and strenghten the request for the need of adequate street lighting
Laf,
I am quite familiar with what constitutes a gang. Meeting after meeting. I have also had a family member seriously victimized by informal gang behavior.
I am not ready to believe a newspaper that said a student was hit and killed and then was being released from the hospital on Saturday. I just don’t want a newspaper as careless with facts as MJM making that determination for my neighborhood.
Giving free validation to thug behavior is not always in the best interests of a neighborhood. That is my point.
Vigilant1,
I would like to think this type of crime in the next neighborhood would help strengthen the case. However, I’m not sure that’s going to happen. I think each district is alotted 4 or 5 new lights per year. What a joke.
Oh, I sure do remember those signs. I was just at madmom’s last week she is a “McGruff Safe House”. This is very key in the walking districts for students. My guess is you had one of the original signs on plywood with a yellow triangle. Am I right?
My goodness I probablly went to school with your kids.
I’ve still not heard back about a NW and I placed my original call on 2/4/08. I will be contacting Neighborhood Services for some assistance. I know they play a role in the NW?
Sudley or WG? I understand if you care not to elaborate though.
Obviously they could you use a NW on Urbanna. Urbanna and Henrico are the worst street in WG.
Dolph said on 16 Feb 2008 at 8:05 pm:
In general….do we really want a newspaper determining what is gang activity and what isn’t? I am not sure I want MJM stirring up things without verification from the police.
Would it have taken a great deal of effort for the reporter to have asked the police department whether there was/was not any indication of gang activity in this case? A simple statement, yea or nea could possibly have answered the question. The are a lot of incomplete stories in the MJM and when a situation is reported (unless it is a murder) there is very little follow-up done. A good example was about 2 years ago when a pick-up truck rear-ended a car on Rt. 28 near Compton Rd. A person in the car was killed and the two occupants (Hispanics) bailed out of the truck and ran. Fortunately they were captured and placed in the county jail. I have never seen a follow-up to that story and what happened to the jailed suspects. By the way, I do subscribe to that paper and as I said, never have seen any follow-up, and in fact, I wrote to the paper and requested an up-date but they never responded.
Dolph,
Point is accepted and not agreed with completely.
You do need and deserve those lights though. I hope you get them. You know V1 agrees with you sediments regarding the response from the Super. I have no problems, but I pick up the phone and make them hear my voice.
Whatever happened to the police bicycle patrols that used to go around Westgage and Sudley? Haven’t seen them in years!
Vigilant1,
I remember that story. No follow up, no surprise. Their jail time was probably suspended as seems to be the norm in so many cases. I guess its because the jail is overcrowded?
Laf,
I should not have to beg for a response. It would cost a fortune to put up street lights in Sudley since the problem has been ignored for so long. However, we have to start somewhere. Some of the back streets are much darker than the main drags.
Sudley and Westgate have long been ignored by the BOCS. I want an answer in writing, not telelphone lip service.
Lafayette said on 16 Feb 2008 at 9:57 pm:
Vigilant1,
I don’t remember the exact details but we had some kind of sign in the front window. My youngest at that time was a student at Sudley ES and my #2 was a student at SJHS. I have lived in Sudley for the last 29 years.
Dolph,
No you should not have to beg for a response. I agree completely. However, if *I* felt that strongly about something I would call and speak to actual person, or pay the office a visit it’s conviently located at Sudley North just off of Sudley Manor.
Well, I do think these all of the Supervisors are getting record amounts of email. I agree we’ve been ignored. That’s exactly why I went paid the Honorable a visity a community clean up day. I have nothing but cooperation since that time. I don’t deny what you are saying. I’ve heard V1 say the same thing, and many others over the decades. This is not something new by any means with the Gainesville District.
I understand you want an answer in writing, again I ask how do you know that they’ve even looked at your email. Sounds to me like they have not. Therefore, I think YOU should call them.
I’m done.
Laf,
No I dont know that they even looked at the email. I know though that you have because I sent a copy to you. LOL
I guess I just feel it is their job to check email. I used their contact us email address. On the other hand, I expect enough people read this blog to filter the information back to the proper powers that be. That is the reason I posted here. After a month, I go public.
“Street lights for ALL streets should be mandatory.”
Northern Virginia in general is terrible for street lighting. I guess it saves a lot of money, but a lot of streets that would be lit up if they were, in say, the suburbs of Chicago are left dark here.
MP Resident,
I totally agree. I don’t know why we should even be having this conversation given the demographics around here and the fact it is 2008. Simple concept: Street lights are a huge crime deterrent.
VDOT is not responsible for street lighting. Or street name signs, for that matter. (another Virginia annoyance–Interstate exit signs are usually posted with the route number but not the street name. Could someone knock some sense into VDOT about that?)
The county has responsibility and I found this information on their website:
STREET LIGHTING
Q: I would like a streetlight installed on my street, who should I contact?
A: The Department of Transportation coordinates the installation and maintenance of streetlights to illuminate hazardous intersections. The Streetlight Coordinator works with Dominion Virginia Power and the Northern Virginia Electric Cooperative (NOVEC) to install and maintain an inventory of more than 5,324 streetlights. Call Michael Clark, Street Light Coordinator, at 703-792-6825.
Q: I would like to report a streetlight outage, who should I contact?
A: To report outages or problems, citizens should call their utility company. Call 1-888-667-3000 to reach Dominion Virginia Power or 703-335-0500 to reach the Northern Virginia Electric Cooperative (NOVEC).
MP Resident,
Maybe YOU should be Gainesville supervisor. Thanks.
Major crow eating time here. I did a search on my email to make certain that I had not had a response since I am jumping on the supervisor, by location, with both feet. I found a response from Scott Chambers, an aid for that office. It must have gotten buried in my email.
My apologies to the Supervisor’s office. I spoke in error.
He said they do not have enough money to do all of Sudley but to let him know what areas are most problematic. Cost analysis to follow. Does anyone out there have a suggestion?
Dolph,
I think the streets that have had gang taggings and crimes committed should be recommended as the first locations. Lafayette probably knows where the crime statistics can be located. If not, perhaps Mr. Chambers can get crime statistics from the PWCPD for the Sudley area and they can begin with those streets.
Hopefully they have proper lighting around Sudley Elementary already.
Item ONE: I understand there was a taxi driver murdered in or near the Point of Woods section of town. I have heard only rumors of this and would like to see any details.
TWO: I can invision a time that adult Manassas residents will arm themselves and do a foot patrol of our neighborhoods in order to protect our families.
Isn’t this a sad day in Manassas history?
Mike Austin,
It most certainly is a sad day. This crime was three blocks from my house. We are planning on buying a gun and taking the whole family to a gun safety class, then we will be visiting the shooting range on the weekends.
Mr. Anon
Maybe determing gang charges or not may have to be finaliized by the courts so they decide how to prosecute under racketeering laws, stuff like that. I am surprised you would expect or even want the Urinial Messenger to make that call. Guess you like it okay when they put your spin on a story. LOL
Foot patrols, are you nuts?? Does anyone have any idea what is going on with the county budget or are you all pretending that:
1) self deporations will bring buckets of cash to the County and it’s happening now and those funds can be used to pay for this
2) $51 million dollar shortfall is not real or we can just close down Social Serivces and Libraries and most parks becuase they mostly serve illegals
3) we sure don’t need addtional fireman
Makes my head hurt.
Loudon,
I agree. I suggested starting with the areas where there had been the most complaints either about crime or hanging out. I also suggested starting with the side streets because they are more narrow and often have cars and trucks obstructing vision.
I also suggested that Sudley be put on a 5 year plan for full street lights. I realize it can’t all be done right now, especially with the county budget situation. However, we do have to start somewhere. I also apologized to Mr. Chambers because I had been so public in my criticism. Crow tastes extremely nasty…..especially when served up warm.
I hope Sudley readers here who are aware of locations in Sudley that are in immediate need of a street light will email gainesville@pcwgov.org or Mr.
Chambers directly: schambers@pwcgov.org
Apparently other people have emailed about street lights for Sudley.
One Voice said on 17 Feb 2008 at 9:30 am:
Makes my head hurt.
Pull it out of your …!
Mike Austin said on 17 Feb 2008 at 8:54 am:
Item ONE: I understand there was a taxi driver murdered in or near the Point of Woods section of town. I have heard only rumors of this and would like to see any details.
Here is a story from the 12 Feb MJM
http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354571144&path=!news
Lafayette,
Have you heard anything re the house next to Frapp’s? Went by there this am and 3 cars in driveway, one in back and two out in front. It looks like most of the front yard has been paved over (at least 2/3’s.)
Mike Austin,
Cabbie shot, killed in Manassas
http://www.manassasjm.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=MJM%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354547211&path=!news
I for one am not interested in street lights in Sudley. We have not had them and do not need them. After the street lights fail to “protect us” do we ask the government to subsidize each resident to have bars put on our windows? What Sudley needs, like everywhere else,is a strict enforcement of existing law and a local government willing to run the trouble out of town. One of the major problems we have is throwing solutions at the symptoms and not the root cause. Sit in on the courts for a few days and you will see minimal punishment handed out day after day. Overboard efforts in the last 20 years trying to justify, excuse and “help” the criminal element has done nothing but drain our resources and made far too many victims of law abiding citizens. Now, if you want to improve Sudley how about getting people to trim their overgrown trees and bushes that hang down or block the sidewalks. And get them to park on the street and not straddle the side walk by stuffing 2 cars in a driveway made for 1.
Anonymous - now there’s a thoughful response to a fairly complicated issue; guess it’s too hard for you to understand. Stupid people.
Citizen 12
Everyone just knows that lighting is not a deterrent to crime. (sarcasm alert)
It is much less expensive than adding more cops. Lots of rhetoric with little substance - or practical solutions. Isn’t anyone else sick of these tomes/posts?
One Voice - yes, I am sick of your tomes/posts!!!!
Can’t you be original or can you only copy what I say?
It is expensive. Also, not needed. Nor do we need more cops. Fact 1. Prince William Police currently performs above the national average in closing both property crime and violent crime. Good job. Fact 2. In Prince William County if you are a victim of a violent crime they will capture, prosecute and convict your criminal about half the time. If you are a victim of a property crime they will capture, prosecute and convict your criminal less that 25% of the time. The criminals know this. BUT the need to know they will get hammered if they get caught! And they will be escorted out of the county. Yes, that can be done, has been in years past. Needs to be done again. What is not practical about using the tools we already have? We just need to vote in better quality craftsmen who are not afraid to use these tools and get dirty while doing the job they are being paid to do.
Good luck reporting gang taggings to anyone. I live in Lake Ridge and have reported SUR-13 taggings to establishments and to the police and got nothing in return. The Safeway off of Old Bridge kept the taggings up months after I brought them to their attention. When I called the cops about the taggings at Safeway and down the street, the cops did come to my house. They said they weren’t familiar with SUR-13 and informed me that there were lots of “tagging wannabes” and certainly that’s what this was…..incredible.
Agree with your crime statistics and apparent enforcement of crimes in PWC, but Prince William county has fewer officers for the population than anyone in Virgina. I have seen that in a presentation made by the internal auditors. There is a service accomplishments report that was distributed at the Citizen Leadership Institute and I clearly recall that.
My only point (made a bit strongly I realize) was that to put them on foot would require more officers because this would slow down their response times which was also pointed out in the CLI program. That and the Citizens Police Academy, are excellant programs to better understand how the county works. I’ve attended both.
I am a fan of Corey Stewart’s, but where is he on this? Every board meeting should have an update from Chief Deane about what he is doing about this kind of stuff. The pressure needs to be ratcheted up on what seems to be a very indifferent police chief.
To: Anonymous at 10:28 am rewgarding:
“One Voice said on 17 Feb 2008 at 9:30 am:
Makes my head hurt.
Pull it out of your …!”
Anonymous, while you are hiding behind your anonymity, you might just want to consider that One Voice might know a little more about money affairs than you do. Considering a response like that from you, I would guess that she knows alot more about a lot of things than you do. Just a hunch.
Loudoun Insider - so regardless of funding, resources, staffing, updates to the BOSyou think we should simply lop off the head? Looks to me if you are going to lop off a head, go two levels higher……
Back to the original post: It’s only going to get worse. While many illegals are leaving the area for fear of being deported, many are not. With the downturn in the construction industry, there are a lot of young males who cannot find jobs, both legal and illegal. There are those within the hispanic community who tap into feelings of anger and use this to pull people into gangs. It is the same dynamic white-power types and black-power types use to recruit. Gang taggings will increase as every little piss-ant gangster wants to claim their turf. Don’t settle for the excuses local law enforcement or business managers throw out when they don’t want to deal with the problem. Push your electeds to pass strong anti-graffiti ordinances. If someone is caught tagging, throw the book at them. If a piece of public property is tagged, demand that it be cleaned up quickly. If a piece of private property is tagged, empower the locality to fine the owner if they don’t remove the tag quickly.
Local law enforcement will always be a step behind. They can try to be as proactive as they want, but the very philosophy that they operate under is reactive in nature.
I am alarmed by those who suggest that citizens should arm themselves form groups like the vigilance committees in 19th century western towns. Self defense is a natural right of the individual. Enforcing the law is not. If you are going about your business, and happen to be assaulted by a criminal, you have both the right and the responsibility to defend yourself and your family. If you happen to see someone being assaulted, you have the right to defend them as well. You do not have the right to stop someone committing a felony where there isn’t threat to life, by using lethal force. Sure, if you see someone breaking into a car, you could draw a gun and hold them until the police arrive. However, if the suspect runs away, you cannot shoot them.
There is a process for change. You pressure local government to pass good laws, and enforce them. If they fail to do either, you replace your elected officials at election time. You make a lot of noise in the local paper. You speak at citizens time. You write, call, fax and email your electeds to express your views. You reward those who do what you want them to with your votes and your financial support.
Direct action is the way they do things in the third-world. That is the way MSF and WWC do things here. Resist the hot-heads in the anti-illegal immigration movement who are calling for armed groups to act directly. There is no faster way to lose the moral high-ground of “enforce the law” than taking the law into your own hands.
Citizen 12,
I don’t know how long you have lived in Sudley but the houses were originally built with working gas lights. Most have been turned off now.
The neighborhood is too dark. I beg to differ with your assessment. We do need lighting at night. Sorry, but every study known to man states that well-lit areas have lower incidences of crime than dark areas.
I feel we need more police officers and we need more technology for our officers.
I guess you don’t feel we need to build more prisons or larger jails also?
—————————————————————————–
Loudon Insider,
Exactly what is it that you feel Chief Dean is not doing? Help me understand this.
Prince William county use to have the reputation as one of the toughest in the nation for capital punishment. There were many newspaper articles about this in the eighties and maybe nineties.
What happened to that reputation?
They ran out of money and what was left was thrown away. ……
Paul Ebert was given the sniper by then Attroney General Ashcroft because of his reputation for getting death penalty convictions. I would say the rep is still there.
Dolph,
I wonder if there is something more to your claim that “more streetlights == less crime”?
As has been stated above the limiting factor to streetlights is money.
It stands to reason that a community that is able to afford streetlights is likely to be more affluent than one that cannot. The stronger correlation seems to be poverty not lack of streetlights.
“The neighborhood is too dark. I beg to differ with your assessment. We do need lighting at night. Sorry, but every study known to man states that well-lit areas have lower incidences of crime than dark areas.”
I have to agree. Sudley and Westgate are way too dark at night. Any Law Enforcement Officer will tell you the criminals prefer dark areas, and shun well lit ones. I will not venture into either of these areas at night unarmed.
mnd,
I have never heard that one. At any rate, I don’t think Sudley or Westgate fit into that area of poverty that you apparently are trying to shove us in. Perhaps I have misunderstood your hypothesis.
Batson,
I do it all the time but….perhaps I am meaner than you are. grin. You are probably wise to go armed if you go out at night a lot.
Seriously, I am very careful about where I go at night in this entire area. Most of the parking lots in public places are poorly designed and have poor lighting.
Urban paranoia ought to be a required course in school.
ateacher -
You can call the county and become a McGruff House. You will agree to be a safe house for children that feel threatened or scared, and all kids are taught about the McGruff Houses in Elemementary School. The kids can knock on your door anytime day or night and know that they will be welcomed in if they feel they are in a bad situation and need security.
Ideally, there should be a McGruff House in every block. If you can enlist your neighbors, this will set up a string of safe houses along the walk routes.
You will have to get a background check, have Liability Insurance, and list 3 references. Pretty simple. And renew every 2 years. It is worth it.
I have only had one child come to my door - and I’m so glad she did. She couldn’t speak English but knew no matter what that she could knock on this “strangers” door and be welcomed in and taken care of.
My driveway is the bus stop for Loch Lomond Elem., Parkside and SJHS. Every year, the first day of school, I make sure I talk to every parent and child at the stop and tell them that I am a McGruff House, and explain what that meant. Some need translating, but I don’t care. Any child that feels threatened is MORE than welcome to come here and I will protect them like my own. And I watch all those kids like a hawk when they are at the bus stop and getting off the bus as well.
This is how I keep my neighborhood “mine”. I am not afraid to tell a teenager to watch his language or go home. That is why the kids congregated at my house. They knew they were safe and that I would
keep everyone in line. Still do. Kinda like the old days when you’d get taken back to your house by the ear and told on by the neighborhood parents. I do the same.
ateacher - I commend you for taking an active stance on the safety of all the kids in your neighborhood. They will never forget you for it. I have kids come by that are grown now and say they wanted to say hi. Makes your heart feel good.
Here is the information, and I’m sure you can find it online on the County’s website.
The McGruff House Program
Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney
703-392-7083
“Urban paranoia ought to be a required course in school.”
Just because you are paranoid, that doesn’t mean that someone isn’t really out to get you. You are just more aware of it.
Bats,
No argument here. I recently had to tell my adult daughter never ever walk out in a parking lot with someone behind you. Always linger and let that person go ahead of you. I thought I had covered the bases. Guess not. Perhaps a refresher course was needed.
Bats/Dolph
Good - situational awareness, a more positive name for “urban paranoia”, is a skill that can and should be developed in all people. I would not limit that to women and I would not limit that to urban or suburban areas.
I don’t think the comment about poverty was meant for the specific subdivision, I understood it to be directed at the community. Clearly, it’s not a priority in this community/PWC. I reacall Dean’s comments at the meeting last week, about cameras for all cars, he said there were always other things that were a priority for the police and for the community and that these were too expensive to be high on his list.
Where do you think he would want to spend the money - lighting or cameras for cars? Might be a good question for the BOS - although they are putting the officers in the position to do this rule of law and the county needs to protect itself and I guess cameras are it. Still looking for federal committment with new rules/laws AND MY money.
OV,
Now? I think Chief Dean would want to spend money on cameras because of CYA. Too much going on and too many people from all sides wanting to sue or at least point an accusatory finger at the cops. In the long run, the cameras will save the county time and money.
Under ordinary circumstances I would hope he would prefer to spend money on crime prevention.
These are the times that try men’s souls….
…. and our pocketbooks.
That’s my complaint. Oh, I am sure he would after all this non-strategic analysis.
Trying to buy federal committment. Good grief…
Blue is the typical color of SUR-13 not black. This may help with ID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sure%C3%B1os
I would guess that the attack could be the work of MS13. There has been a lot of MS13 graffiti in that area (Urbana).
Dolph,
I have been in PWC many years. The reasons given why the gas lights are out is due to the unmetered gas fee and repair/replacement cost. That said many of our neighbors leave the front lights on and/ or converted the gas lamp to electric. I am aware of the light to crime statistics but we live in the 15th safest state in the union. Now, if we could get a couple of counties east of us to merge with Maryland or D.C. I am sure that number would improve. (I know, that was mean). Violent crime in PWC is app.8% It is not as if we have muggings and drive buys every night. There are plenty of street lights in P.G. County M.D. and I’m sure they don’t feel safer for it. My point would be, while the situation is not like P.G. or South Central, now is the time to set the precedence, draw a hard line and enforce it. If I need more light when I go for a walk at night I’ll take a flashlight.
It’s usually never an issue or a reality until it impacts people individually. They then wonder why no one wants to spend money on prevention.
Guess we have to wait for some to become part of the 8% to see the issue.
Sigh……
Bats and Dolph:
You both make good points. Being aware and alert is “required” and taking the law into your own hands is not. Awareness is the key to help avoid some situations but sometimes, regardless, “poop” happens. Taking a well planned and proper firearms course that covers personal protection is highly recommended, even if one does intend on carrying or even owning a firearm. Knowledge is power and understanding this option in very important.
Unfortunately we no longer “approve” of firearms anymore because so many folks have demonized the tool. A person should at least have some type of plan and defense plan, be it run, scream, call 911 or protect yourself and, most importantly, make sure it works.
Always remember, no law stops a criminal - no matter how many times and ways they make it illegal. The victim NEVER gets to choose the time and the place - never. The police are only minutes away when seconds count . There is no such thing as a “Gun-free zone”, a “Drug-free zone”, and “No Criminals Allowed” zone. Gangs proliferate when good natured people do nothing to stop it and the police cannot enforce any laws to curtail it or get an arrest. However, the armed citizen does offer a change to the prospective. It is a matter of choice no matter what.
Thanks RW&B: I was writing as you were posting.
All:
Lots of writers here talk about ’situational awareness’, blah, blah, etc.
Did you not read the original post? These kids took evasive action and they were still stalked and attacked.
They, by this account, did all the right things!
Will you just wait until it happens to YOU?
If this happened in MY neighborhood I would make it a point to go for regular walks around the block. I have several neighbors who would go with me as well.
I love my kids, and I love my neighbors’ kids.
I am not advocating for vigilantism on our streets, but I refuse to sit comfortably inside my home while outside criminal elements take the street and all on it right out front as THEY wish!
I am not suggesting anyone do anything illegal! I am not suggesting anyone ‘go hunting’! I am suggesting that the police cannot be everywhere and there may come a day (or night) that even the BIGGEST flashlight may not be enough to save your life or that of a loved one!
Call Chiefs Deane and Skinner and ask for more police coverage of YOUR block and watch what happens. It is not in the budgets!
My best wish is that everyone, especially the children, has a peaceful walk in there own neighborhood!
I haven’t posted this in awhile, but we need to be reminded of it once again. These things do make a difference. A POSITIVE I would like to say. These things are pretty easy for the most part.
12 Tips to Improve Your Neighborhood Right Now!
Improve Your Neighborhood - 12 Easy Things YOU Can Do
1. Pick up the litter near your home, even if you didn’t put it there. You can help stop the growth of trash in your neighborhood by taking away the existing litter that attracts it. Get others involved through Community Cleanup Campaigns. It’s a great way to get people working toward a common goal. Everyone feels good because they can see the results of their efforts - litter-free common areas and a well-swept appearance. Even children can play a part.
2. Turn your porch light on. Crime tends to decline in neighborhoods that are well lit. Turning on porch lights is a simple way to start this process.
3. Walk around the block. It sounds simple enough, but neighbors benefit over time when more responsible citizens walk about more (particularly those who are comfortable doing it) at night, every night, around their block.
4. Drive slowly on neighborhood streets. You can take the lead in slowing down traffic in your neighborhood and those around you.
5. Report nuisances and other non-criminal problems promptly.
6. Make a list of the names and phone numbers of every neighbor on your block. Unless you know neighbors’ names and numbers, you can’t call them about a concern or let them know about a neighborhood problem.
7. Meet the youth who live on your block and greet them by name. This ensures that each adult is better able to help in an emergency and is better prepared to discuss problems immediately as they arise.
8. Make a list of landlords in your area. As owners of property in the community, landlords are responsible to the neighborhood and most are rightly concerned about the health of the community in which their properties stand.
9. Take away the opportunity for crime. Lock your car and never leave valuables, even for a few minutes, in the car where would-be thieves might see them. Trim bushes or trees on your property that offer too-convenient hiding places. Make your front porch visible and make sure your home looks like someone lives there.
10. Report crime promptly. Neighbors sometimes don’t report criminal activity because they don’t want to bother the police; they assume police are too short-staffed to respond, or they believe that there isn’t much an officer can (or will) do about a given problem anyway. Whether the issue is graffiti, petty vandalism, or something much more serious, police cannot act without first hearing about the problem from citizens.
11. Stay where you are. Stable neighborhoods are built on the commitment of long-term residents who would rather live in a healthy community than move to a bigger house.
12. Help your neighborhood association or similar groups. If leadership isn’t your desire, at least make sure someone in your household attends local neighborhood association meetings. You’ll be kept better informed of the issues facing the neighborhood and how you can help and, perhaps more importantly, you’ll have the chance to shape, guide, and participate in the future of your neighborhood.
Reprinted with permission from Campbell DeLong, Resources, Inc., www.cdri.com.
Copyright 1999-2000 @Campbell DeLong Resources, Inc.
Thank you Laf.. for this excellent advice.
I wonder why no one has made any reference to this situation that occured at the Manassas mall on Saturday?
Police briefs
Potomac News
Saturday, February 16, 2008
Man beaten, robbed while eating at mall
An 18-year-old Manassas-area man was beaten while eating a meal at Manassas Mall around 7:20 p.m. Monday, said Sharon Richardson, Prince William police spokeswoman.
According to police, two boys had followed the man while he was shopping at the mall in the 8300 block of Sudley Road near Manassas and asking him what he was doing.
Police said the man ignored them and went to buy some food, when apparently the boys returned with two older men.
They beat the man, Richardson said, and stole his wallet and cell phone.
Police said the victim was able to escape his attackers.
The two boys who followed the man were described as black and between 14 and 17 years old. One was about 5 feet 10 inches tall and 140 pounds; the other was approximately 5 feet 10 inches tall and 150 pounds, police said.
The two older men were described as black, between 30 and 40 years old. One was about 5 feet 11 inches tall and 190 pounds; the other was about 5 feet 9 inches tall with a medium build, police said.
Laf and Mike - et. al.:
Good post by many folks. It seems the main concerns we all have are not being addressed as we would hope. The police are a part of the answer but not all the answer. Many responded well and I would hope the MJM would search harder for better information and not fear to print it. The police cannot be everywhere and many times a call does not resolve area issues. If it did, gang activity would be down and the police blotter would have fewer reports. Laws are like locks. It keeps good people honest, criminals don’t care about laws or who they hurt. Those in need of more street lights might want to try different approaches if possible. Personally I keep all the doors locked, the car locked and protection is on each level of the home and easily accessible. If I have a problem in the neighborhood, I open the door, observe and take reasonable action which includes calling the police, if warranted. If I go out, I never leave alone, if you know what I mean, even to mow the lawn. Good luck to what all of you choose and I hope we can come some conclusions because these problems are not going away anytime soon.
Actual situation happened on Monday and was reported in Saturday’s paper.
This incident happened last Monday and appeared in the paper on Saturday. Wonder why no one has brought this incident up or commented on it?
Police briefs
Potomac News
Saturday, February 16, 2008
Man beaten, robbed while eating at mall
An 18-year-old Manassas-area man was beaten while eating a meal at Manassas Mall around 7:20 p.m. Monday, said Sharon Richardson, Prince William police spokeswoman.
According to police, two boys had followed the man while he was shopping at the mall in the 8300 block of Sudley Road near Manassas and asking him what he was doing.
Police said the man ignored them and went to buy some food, when apparently the boys returned with two older men.
They beat the man, Richardson said, and stole his wallet and cell phone.
Police said the victim was able to escape his attackers.
The two boys who followed the man were described as black and between 14 and 17 years old. One was about 5 feet 10 inches tall and 140 pounds; the other was approximately 5 feet 10 inches tall and 150 pounds, police said.
The two older men were described as black, between 30 and 40 years old. One was about 5 feet 11 inches tall and 190 pounds; the other was about 5 feet 9 inches tall with a medium build, police said.
Teen boy, girl attacked in Manassas area
A boy and girl, both 14 and from the Manassas area, were attacked in the 8000 block of Urbanna Road in the Manassas area around 5 p.m. Monday, said Sharon Richardson, Prince William police spokeswoman.
The teens reported to police that they a black, four-door sports car had been following them while they were walking, Richardson said.
When the two began walking in a different direction, the car sped up and disappeared from their view, police said.
A group of six then jumped out from behind a building and began to attack them, Richardson said.
A detailed description of the assailants was not available.
- Elisa Glushefski
It looks like my post is disappearing after it is submitted and appears on the site. When I come back to the post I find it has disappeared. When I repost it, both of them then appear. Any ideas what is happening Greg?
it’s sad to say . . .but that’s how it is in manassas/manassas park anymore. until they (police . . gov’t . .whatever) crack down on these “people”, nothing will get better. everybody has a right to live somewhere and all. i don’t have a problem with that, but it’s when you bring your entire family of illegal aliens here as well as all the baggage with you (gangs, drugs and general shitty attitude toward everything) that everything screws up. let’s face it here people . . .it’s all the spanish peoples fault, or at least a large part of it. there i said it. they ought to sweep the entire area . . .house to house if need be and try and clean up some of the mess that they have made/are making.
The area is full of Hispanic Gangs and many are illegal of Of illegals.
Mike Austin,
You are welcome.
ALL,
This really got our neighbors’ attention. I noticed several others started doing the same. Most of the tips become part of your regular routine. We all must become involved.
I think we all know that the MJM could always do better. This instance is really do different. Why was this not in the paper for so many days?
corr: This instance is really NO different.
For those who might not want to pack heat, get a dog. Dog are very good crime deterrents and I rarely hear them mentioned. Most criminals do not want to risk getting their face mauled.
Obama is showing his white middle class upbringing and profound misunderstanding of the Black experience when he equates Latinos walking across the Border to the nearest welfare office as the same thing as Blacks experienced in Slavery and the fight for their Civil Rights. Obama and the Democrats are in fact abandoning Blacks for the new minority Latinos. It is the beginning of the end for Black political power and their civil rights. Latinos has replaced blacks as the Minority to pander and promote. Latinos hater for Blacks and racist hater for everyone not a member of the Race will affect blacks first but in time destroy this Nation. As the Racist hate group, La Raza says everything for the race and nothing for the rest. Anyone that reads La Raza Manifesto and listens to Latino politicians & activist is the USA & Mexico should have no doubt what the future of this Nation will be. Unless we close our Borders and enforce our Immigration laws. But like the Jews in Germany listening to Hitler it is easier, less stressful and more Political Correct to close our eyes, ears, and mind,s than be Political Incorrect and face the truth about what Mexico,s and the Latinos organizations agenda and goals really are. The Republicans love the cheap labor for the rich with the poor and middle class paying the 20K per year in welfare! The Democrats mouth waters at the thought of another 100 millions or so voter on welfare to vote for the Democrats party. We are giving this Nation to Mexico & in time will lead to another Catholic, Spanish speaking, third world Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty and Misery!
Considering the horrific illegal alien problem in this country- that costs us BILLIONS and brings in more violent crime, for Obama to be pandering to the illegal aliens is SHAMEFUL!
Obama’s speech to La Raza:
(La Raza (The Race), Largest Hispanic organization in the U.S.
Lobbies for racial preferences, bilingual education, stricter hate crimes laws, mass immigration, and amnesty for illegal aliens )
Obama said the recent Senate immigration debate “was both ugly and racist in a way we haven’t see since the struggle for civil rights.”
SHAMEFUL!
Obama told La Raza that the mass protests lately of for immigration rights of Mexicans is equal in greatness to the civil rights protest of the past!
SHAMEFUL!
Omama supports La Raza’s, the “DREAM Act,” which would mandate states to offer in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens — thus providing them with benefits not available to U.S. citizens from other states, as well as amnesty and other atrocities. Obama urged Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to sign the Dream Act, a bill that would make illegal immigrant students who graduate from high school eligible for college aid. (Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar measure last year.)
SHAMEFUL!
Obama is currently displayed as banner boy on the Project Islamic Hope site. Some of the founders of this organization have been indicted for terrorist support.
http://islamichope.org/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070723/NATION/107230063/1001
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1870205/posts
http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/201957.html
CHECK THIS OUT:
http://immigrationcounters.com/
http://www.texasborderregulators.org/
Statistics on illegal aliens:
The Heritage Foundation ^ | 10/25/06 | Robert Rector
The National Academy of Sciences has estimated that each immigrant without a high school degree will cost U.S. taxpayers, on average, $89,000 over the course of his or her lifetime.[3] This is a net cost above the value of any taxes the immi*grant will pay and does not include the cost of educating the immigrant’s children, which U.S. taxpayers would also heavily subsidize. In this way, the roughly six million legal immigrants without a high school diploma will impose a net cost of around a half-trillion dollars on U.S. taxpayers over their lifetimes
Crime Statisitcs
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually.
53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport coyotes”.
47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.
63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens.
66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66%, 98% are illegal.
Birth Statistics
380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the U.S. in 2005 to illegal alien parents, making 380,000 babies automatically U.S.citizens.
97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American taxpayers.
66% plus of all births in California are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
Last Updated ( Friday, 20 July 2007 )
Considering the horrific illegal alien problem in this country- that costs us BILLIONS and brings in more violent crime, for Obama to be pandering to the illegal aliens is SHAMEFUL!
Obama’s speech to La Raza:
(La Raza (The Race), Largest Hispanic organization in the U.S.
Lobbies for racial preferences, bilingual education, stricter hate crimes laws, mass immigration, and amnesty for illegal aliens )
Obama said the recent Senate immigration debate “was both ugly and racist in a way we haven’t see since the struggle for civil rights.”
SHAMEFUL!
Obama told La Raza that the mass protests lately of for immigration rights of Mexicans is equal in greatness to the civil rights protest of the past!
SHAMEFUL!
Omama supports La Raza’s, the “DREAM Act,” which would mandate states to offer in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens — thus providing them with benefits not available to U.S. citizens from other states, as well as amnesty and other atrocities. Obama urged Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to sign the Dream Act, a bill that would make illegal immigrant students who graduate from high school eligible for college aid. (Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar measure last year.)
SHAMEFUL!
Obama is currently displayed as banner boy on the Project Islamic Hope site. Some of the founders of this organization have been indicted for terrorist support.
http://islamichope.org/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070723/NATION/107230063/1001
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1870205/posts
http://www.miamiherald.com/campaign08/story/201957.html
CHECK THIS OUT:
http://immigrationcounters.com/
http://www.texasborderregulators.org/
Gone Fishing (and I am assuming that is where you are this fine day).
That email address is not working right. Use another one please:
covenchix@yayhoo.com
Thanks,
Dolph
From the same MJM link:
2/16/2008
Man beaten, robbed while eating at mall
An 18-year-old Manassas-area man was beaten while eating a meal at Manassas Mall around 7:20 p.m. Monday, said Sharon Richardson, Prince William police spokeswoman.
According to police, two boys had followed the man while he was shopping at the mall in the 8300 block of Sudley Road near Manassas and asking him what he was doing.
Police said the man ignored them and went to buy some food, when apparently the boys returned with two older men.
They beat the man, Richardson said, and stole his wallet and cell phone.
Police said the victim was able to escape his attackers.
The two boys who followed the man were described as black and between 14 and 17 years old. One was about 5 feet 10 inches tall and 140 pounds; the other was approximately 5 feet 10 inches tall and 150 pounds, police said.
The two older men were described as black, between 30 and 40 years old. One was about 5 feet 11 inches tall and 190 pounds; the other was about 5 feet 9 inches tall with a medium build, police said.
http://www.wecanstopthehate.org/
Gotta love the race and their hate!
Bl said on 18 Feb 2008 at 4:32 pm:
WOW Bl: What great information. That should be a whole ‘nother post Greg!
Dolph said on 18 Feb 2008 at 4:33 pm:
Gone Fishing (and I am assuming that is where you are this fine day).
That email address is not working right. Use another one please:
covenchix@yayhoo.com
Thanks,
Dolph
So, you’re a witch?
According to the news, people in Sudley should be healthy as horses if street lights causing disease theory is correct.
An additional bonus is the eclipse is very visible because it is so damn dark over here.
I am looking out of the window right now and can’t see the house across the street because it’s so dark in Sudley.