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Manassas To Adopt Section 287(g) Program Monday

By Greg L | 23 February 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Manassas City | 19 Comments

This Monday Chief Skinner will present the draft Memorandum of Understanding with Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement for the Section 287(g) Program to the Manassas City Council for ratification, and finally begin the implementation of an effort initiated by then-Councilman Jackson Miller in 2006.  This agreement is very similar to what the Town of Herndon adopted, and is an important component of the overall effort to ensure that Prince William County, the City of Manassas, the Prince William County Adult Detention Center and the Prince William County Juvenile Detention Center all establish compatible agreements under the Section 287(g) Program.  It will be a tremendous benefit to ensure consistent policies among the different area jurisdictions, especially given the degree of resources they share, and will reduce the level of effort needed to implement these policies within the jurisdictions that are participating in this program.

One of the key benefits of this program will be to close a potential loophole for criminal illegal aliens who might avoid screening at the Detention Centers.  There are instances when a violation of crime or local ordinance does not automatically mean that a suspect is detained, and under current policy if someone doesn’t pass through the intake center at the Adult or Juvenile Detention Center, they escape any screening for legal status.  Current Virginia law, despite the efforts of Delegate Jackson Miller in the General Assembly, requires that if someone is cited for a misdemeanor such as being a “Peeping Tom”, stalking, or misdemeanor assault the police officer must release the individual on a summons.  With the implementation of this program for the Manassas City Police Department, if an officer who has received training under the Section 287(g) Program believes that the suspect is an illegal alien that officer can screen the suspect for his legal status, and then if the person is determined to be an illegal alien, take him into custody so he can be processed for deportation.

While the General Assembly is now considering legislation that would remove the presumption for bail of illegal aliens in Virginia, unless there’s a means to determine who is and who is not an illegal alien, the effect of this legislation is likely to be somewhat minimal.  Currently police can only determine if someone is an illegal alien absent the training and resources provided under the Section 287(g) Program if the person provides identification that matches that of someone who has previously been subject to a deportation order and then is again found in the United States.  Using a fake identity completely subverts this effort, and it does nothing to help identify the status of an overwhelming proportion of illegal aliens who have so far successfully evaded the consequences of their unlawful actions.  You can’t deny an illegal alien bail if you haven’t determined whether they are an illegal alien or not.

I’m hearing that the illegal alien lobby has already started to engage the members of the Manassas City Council in an attempt to prevent this agreement from being signed.  Citizens who support the rule of law and want to ensure that the City of Manassas does not become a relative safe haven for illegal aliens now that Prince William County is implementing their crackdown really need to be at Manassas City Council Chambers on Monday night and advocate for this important effort.  Already, a few reports have come in of illegal aliens moving from Prince William County to Manassas City and while school enrollments in Prince William County seem to be going down, especially for ESOL students, there appears to be an increase in Manassas.  If the illegal alien lobby prevails, it will solidify the perception in the illegal alien community that Manassas is a more hospitable place for illegal aliens than Prince William County, which may make parts of Manassas start looking like the “old section” of Manassas Park, where illegals already benefit from a local government that is relatively accommodating to their needs.

Come speak at Citizens Time, which should start sometime after 6:00PM, and lend your support to this effort to ensure that Manassas City adopts policies towards illegal aliens that are consistent with Prince William County, and prevents illegal aliens from perceiving that the City of Manassas is a more inviting place to unlawfully reside than the county that surrounds it.  You can view the packet for this council meeting here, and it wouldn’t hurt to contact members of the City Council by phone and email this weekend even if you can make the Council meeting on Monday.

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  1. starryflights said on 23 Feb 2008 at 1:46 pm:
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    Who decides which Police Officers receive the 287G training? Is it voluntary or will all Police Officers eventually received this training? Most of the illegal aliens in PWC are Hispanic. We have many Hispanic Police Officers and others may be sympathetic to the illegal aliens. How do we now that the Police Officers will really follow through with identifying illegal aliens in custody? Is there a back-up system to double check, where some officers may choice not to flag illegal aliens? What happens to the officer if (even with the 287G training), refuses to flag ALL suspected illegal aliens in custody?

  2. Anonymous said on 23 Feb 2008 at 7:56 pm:
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    Police officers will not be able to “flag” anyone who is suspected. The person has to be arrested or break a law. At that point a police office can have a status check done. I sure hope and pray that all Hispanics will not be suspected of being here without papers. Why do you think all Hispanics are illegal? For your info they are not.

    I also wish that Greg would keep his nose out of the City of Manassas business. He does not pay taxes here nor does he live in the City. He is a PW Co resident.

  3. starryflights said on 23 Feb 2008 at 8:37 pm:
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    I stated that the person would be in police custody, thus it would appear that the person in question has done something to require police action and possible arrest. I never said or implied that anyone could be flagged. I would like to know what exactly this program (287G) teaches our Police Officers, as to whom is allowed to be flagged as a possible illegal alien? Is it by accent, dress, not speaking English or some other mysterious antennae raising quirk?

  4. PWConservative said on 23 Feb 2008 at 8:54 pm:
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    about 8 years too late

  5. MP Resident said on 23 Feb 2008 at 9:24 pm:
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    “I also wish that Greg would keep his nose out of the City of Manassas business. He does not pay taxes here nor does he live in the City. He is a PW Co resident.”

    With that kind of attitude you might feel more at home in Manassas Park.

  6. starryflights said on 23 Feb 2008 at 9:38 pm:
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    Manassas is in the middle of PWC and will always be of concern for those living in PWC.

  7. monticup said on 23 Feb 2008 at 10:02 pm:
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    I hope the Hispanic police officers are US citizens and are not dual citizens.

  8. Kenneth Reynolds said on 23 Feb 2008 at 11:17 pm:
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    Isnt this all a bit ridiculous when PWC can barely afford to fund 287? What good does the 287 do when PWC will only detain dangerous felons? Where are the jurisdictions supposed to do with detainees when there is no room in our jails and ICE can take about 120 a month from the entire metro area………..this is all ill-advised………..an unfortunate publicity stunt!!! Prove me wrong?

  9. Greg L said on 23 Feb 2008 at 11:17 pm:
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    I would imagine that if the President of Help Save Manassas were a Manassas City Resident, you’d be lodging the same complaint about that person weighing in on Prince William County issues.

    Funny how that complaint doesn’t seem to ever crop up from the leftists when Ricardo Juarez inserts himself into Manassas politics (Woodbridge resident and likely an illegal alien to boot), or against John Steinback (Prince William resident living in the Brentsville District).

    It’s not the residency that bothers this latest cowardly anon, it’s the argument that they cannot respond to. There is no way to argue that criminal illegal aliens should be permitted to unlawfully reside in our communities after they have committed a state or local crime. Advocating on behalf of the lawless is a loser, leaving those who would want to do so to complain that I’m not a Manassas City resident.


  10. Greg L said on 23 Feb 2008 at 11:39 pm:
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    We’re talking about Manassas City here, although the same budget constraints that affect Prince William are at play in Manassas.

    Speaking strictly about Manassas, there’s someone who you might want to talk to sometime to get an answer to this. Her name is Wanda Angelos. Her son was killed by MS-13 gang members who were illegal aliens in November of 2006. Prior to their murder of this woman’s son, most of these now-convicted illegal alien criminals had interactions with both the Manassas City Police Department and the Prince William County Police Department prior to this murder. They were never identified as illegal aliens due to departmental policies in place at the time, and were let go at every encounter. Had the Section 287(g) Program been in place in 2006, these murderers would have very likely been screened, identified as illegal aliens, and deported PRIOR to their murder of C.J. Angelos.

    That disturbing story is repeated in five of the nine murders that happened in Prince William County in 2007. Yes, that’s right, more than half or our murders in Prince William County were committed by illegal aliens. Before they worked themselves up to the level of murder, in most cases these murderers got themselves into various troubles with local law enforcement, and were let go when detained by police. They then went on to take the lives of Prince William County residents, immigrants and non-immigrants alike.

    What did that cost us? Can you put a price tag on these lives? I can tell you it cost us a fortune to arrest, prosecute and incarcerate these illegal aliens, most of whom could have been deported prior to committing murder had the Section 287(g) Program been in place.

    And what about the costs imposed on us by illegal aliens who have raped, kidnapped, assaulted, robbed, molested, or otherwise harmed Prince William County residents but didn’t actually murder them?

    Your question of cost vs. benefit is a valid one, and I hope you can begin to understand that the costs currently placed on both PWC and Manassas are unbearable as they are. Should we be able to deter or prevent these costs in the future by participating in this program, our investment here will be productive in both fiscal economic terms, but also in the perhaps more significant intangible non-economic terms that otherwise devastate far too many families in this area.

  11. Ducky said on 24 Feb 2008 at 6:41 am:
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    starryflights said on 23 Feb 2008 at 1:46 pm:
    We have many Hispanic Police Officers and others may be sympathetic to the illegal aliens. How do we now that the Police Officers will really follow through with identifying illegal aliens in custody?

    How do you know that, sir?

    monticup said on 23 Feb 2008 at 10:02 pm:
    I hope the Hispanic police officers are US citizens and are not dual citizens.

    Why don’t you two join the PWC police force and tell them what they are doing wrong?

  12. Mike Austin said on 24 Feb 2008 at 2:39 pm:
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    ANON said: “I also wish that Greg would keep his nose out of the City of Manassas business. He does not pay taxes here nor does he live in the City. He is a PW Co resident.”

    Regarding this incredible view, I am really tired of hearing this!
    Greg was invited, nominated, and subsequently elected to the position of President of HSM to represent the member citizens of Manassas City, Manassas Park AND Prince William County.
    He was elected by these people, for these people!

    Greg has done a superb job of acting on these issues.
    I am one MANASSAS CITY RESIDENT who is glad Greg has volunteered his time and expertise to do this service for this community.
    In case you have not noticed ANON, his efforts have been noticed far beyond the borders of the city, or the county, or even the state, even catching international press coverage.

    Kenneth: Regarding the cost vs. benefit issue; I attended a meeting last month where Corey Stewart quoted some pretty impressive financial stats that indicate there is already a substantial savings being experienced for PWC, and yes this does mean Manassas and the Park as well.

    GREG, I would like to thank you AGAIN for being ‘our President’ and spearheading this initiative for MANASSAS CITY and surrounding communities!

  13. Kenneth Reynolds said on 24 Feb 2008 at 3:10 pm:
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    Well thank you for your detailed and courteous response Greg. I certainly agree that we want all felons off the streets…….locked up, serve their time, and deported. And while there are some qualifiers in your comments (Illegals murdering illegals is NOT the same as those harming our neighbors). I dont know the details of the arrests of the MS-13s who were released - but as i understand the existing process, the Northern Virginia Task Force should have stopped them. If anything, PWC should provide added support to the Task Force…..the program as envisioned for PWWC is that Police will be making random stops……..looking for the felons……..a bad politically motivated operation……and i think it is a disgrace to the community………and wait til next week when the announce closures of the libraries……while they fund the C A Unit……..

  14. Greg L said on 24 Feb 2008 at 3:38 pm:
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    Kenneth, the task force you’re speaking of is the Northern Virginia Gang Task Force, which has one part-time ICE agent working with it and covers Fairfax, Arlington, Loudoun and Prince William Counties, and all of the independent cities within those county boundaries. The mandate of that task force is to strictly deal with gangs. It does not work to identify the legal status of non-gang members, or persons arrested who may be gang members but haven’t come to the attention of the NVGTF.

    When Prince William County was considering the 287(g) Program at the Adult Detention Center, Chief Deane testified that in his opinion, the NVGTF was entirely adequate and there was no need for 287(g), something which Chief Skinner of Manassas City also said when this first came up in the City of Manassas. Since adoption of 287(g), the adult detention center is identifying ten times as many criminal illegal aliens as before, and is sending about 50 per month to ICE rather than the three or four a month it did previously. Chief Skinner has since become an unabashed fan of the program, and regularly testifies about the dramatic improvement in public safety it has fostered. Everywhere it has been adopted, law enforcement has been very vocal about the successes they’ve seen.

    The draft MOU specifically states that the program in Manassas will not authorize officers to conduct random stops of drivers. I don’t know where you got that information from, but it was not from the MOU which clearly establishes the rules and procedures of the program. The MOU states that someone must be suspected of violating a state or local law in order to be subjected to a screening for legal status under the program. I suggest you obtain a copy of this MOU, or the one executed with the PWC Adult Detention Center and familiarize yourself with the actual agreements before commenting on what they contain or do not contain.

    This program has been implemented in several states and numerous localities across the country. There has never been an allegation against any participating jurisdictions that the program has been used to violate the civil rights of anyone in the nearly eight years it has been in place. One reason for this is the extensive civil rights law component of the training provided to officers under this program. I think there is an argument to be made here that the training this program provides actually reduces the already low frequency of civil rights complaints against law enforcement agencies by increasing the number of officers who have a thorough understanding of civil rights laws, who can then share their knowledge with officers who haven’t received the full training.

    If you are to convince anyone here that there are actual drawbacks to this program, I would suggest you dig through the extensive history of it’s implementation and provide some shred of evidence to support your concerns. Many around here are familiar with other cases where detractors of an initiative have made dire predictions of “blood in the streets” or somesuch catastrophic result without any basis for these predictions, only to see that these dire outcomes never actually occur. Unless you want to have readers associate your concerns with those histories of false negative predictions, you might want to show an example where implementation of the Section 287(g) Program has converted some other jurisdiction into the modern equivalent of KristallNacht you suggest is inevitable here.

    Otherwise, some folks may just conclude that you’re full of crap. I wouldn’t want that to happen, since I think you wouldn’t deserve it.

  15. Kenneth Reynolds said on 24 Feb 2008 at 6:26 pm:
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    Greg, Evidently you have studied the matter at some length. I have read a lot about the program also. And its origins as i see them are rooted in a political witchhunt…why is it that up until last yeaer, only 20 jurisdictions hooked up with ICE via the MOU, when authority had been in place for 10 years? As i understand it, there was no involvement because the professional police departments generally wanted nothing to do with it. I say random stops because that is what PWC is talking about. If the police identify criminals, why cant they just pick them up? The staffing needs of the department call for ran addl 25 officers a year for the next 5 years. I understnad also that ICE has a prroblem if the locals are not fully staffed…..
    At the end of the day, if the CAU is successful in rounding up more crminals than is the case currently, then it works…..they are up and running despite what anyone says at this point. If they dont, then they are a budgetg mistake that was driven by political motives. Full of crap is in the eyes of the beholder!!!!

  16. Kenneth Reynolds said on 24 Feb 2008 at 11:08 pm:
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    Mike ~~ Well, I’m sure you heard what Corey Stewart said….but this is the first time i have ever heard that…….and have no reason to believe that anything Corey says is accurate - his key messages are always to serve Corey and of course that one does. I believe that Latinos have left here in droves because there are no construction jobs….and housing economy that continues to decline. I also contend that those who stay do so since this is where they choose to raise their families while they work 2-3 jobs to support themselves…..we have the highest total number of foreclosures on the market right now….not the highest % ….but the highest number - more than fairfax county…..and you can blame Corey for that………and i guess people like me who are totally dismayed by his actions have just as much of a claim in blaming him as he does citing some stats…which he probably got from FAIR or like group!!! Corey was into his 7th full week of his 4 year term and announcing his exploratory committee………how can anyone take him seroiusly!!

  17. Ducky said on 25 Feb 2008 at 3:08 am:
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    Greg L:
    Many around here are familiar with other cases where detractors of an initiative have made dire predictions of “blood in the streets” or somesuch catastrophic result without any basis for these predictions, only to see that these dire outcomes never actually occur.

    Predictions like this one?

    starryflights said on 23 Feb 2008 at 1:46 pm:
    We have many Hispanic Police Officers and others [sic] may be sympathetic to the illegal aliens. How do we now that the Police Officers will really follow through with identifying illegal aliens in custody?

    starryflights says this program is not going to work. Perhaps you should talk to him.

  18. Anonymous said on 25 Feb 2008 at 6:47 am:
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    Off topic did anyone read the letter in today’s Journal Messenger by Ruben Pineda? It’s in the letter to the editor portion of the paper. Read this letter he wrote.

  19. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 25 Feb 2008 at 4:58 pm:
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    Seems to me he doesn’t have a good grasp of the issue at hand. This isn’t about racism, it is about being here LEGALLY!! His apologetic ways will come back to bite US in the a$$. We, as American citizens, have the right to tell who we want here as well as allow certain group quotas as well. I am tired of people from a foreign land coming to America and telling us how to run our country. The politically correct crowd needs to get over themselves and get on the side o law abiding citizens. We need to start the fence, complete it and then start the deportation process immediately.

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