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Kaine Vetoes Restaurant Gun Ban Repeal
By Greg L | 4 March 2008 | Virginia Politics | 37 Comments
Governor Kaine has announced a veto of SB 476, which would repeal the ban on concealed firearms in restaurants that serve alcohol. Currently, it is required that you openly carry your defensive firearm in a restaurant that serves alcohol rather than keep it concealed, and you’re even allowed drink while you’re doing so. This bill would remove the requirement that the firearm be exposed, and prohibit the consumption of alcoholic beverages while carrying a firearm.
“Allowing concealed weapons into restaurants and bars that serve alcohol puts the public, the employees, and our public safety officers at risk,” Governor Kaine said. “I take seriously the objections of law enforcement to this measure.”
The objections of law enforcement? You’ve got to be kidding here Governor! The only law enforcement agency that “objected” was the Alcoholic Beverage Commission, and they only objected because you told them to do so!
When the ABC spoke to Senate Courts, they told the committee they were speaking for the Kaine Administration. So here’s how Governor Timmy works: send a state agency to lobby against a bill on your behalf. Watch the bill get passed by a wide margin (24-15 in the Senate, 62-26 in the House of Delegates), and then veto it citing the same objections you had that state agency raise for you. Is this ridiculous or what? The Virginia State Police took no position on this bill. Not a single agency other than the ABC took a position against it. This is nothing but a bald-faced lie.
So here’s a quick way to tell when Governor Kaine is lying to you: watch for when his lips move.
SB 476 is back over in the General Assembly, and hopefully they’ll find enough votes to override this veto. With enough constituent pressure it just might happen, and it should. When the Governor can’t justify his actions without resorting to outright lies, those actions absolutely should be overturned by the General Assembly.
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ABC may be the only agency that objected… But I can tell you that the Virginia Association of Chief’s of Police objected as well. And objected to the refinement of the concealed weapon laws allowing people to carry weapons in locked glove compartments.
I am NOT a member.
A lot of police chiefs - particularly in metropolitan areas - favor greater firearms restrictions. This is because they are usually political appointees of their local administrations.
Most of the rank and file cops I know have no problem with legally concealed or open carry firearms. It’s the illegally concealed arms that they are most concerned with.
Well THIS rank and file cop would be happy if EVERY law abiding citizen carried a weapon!!!
An interesting argument was made a week or so ago… I really don’t think it carries much hope but… It would be entertaining at least…
As Conservative, I would rather Warner then Kaine. Warner was at least respectful of right to keep and bear arms and signed many a law supporting these rights.
Virginia Association of Chief’s of Police is horribly anti gun, if they had their way, Open carry would be illegal, Concealed carry would be either no issue or may issue. Sorry, we have rights police chiefs and they trump yours.
Most people who have a concealed permit when stopped by the police are told to be extra cooperative with the officer and too put their hands in plain view, because when an officer pulls you over, they run your license plate and know that you are a concealed gun owner.
The first question the police will usually ask is if you are carrying your gun with you.
Concealed gun owners tend to be the most law abiding citizens of all.
less than two-tenths of 1% of permits are revoked for cause. CHP holders are very law abiding. Kaine is making the same tired arguments the anti’s make every year, “guns and alcohol don’t mix” Well, Duh. Their arguments fail because under current law, it is legal to open-carry and drink in a bar or retaurant. Notice how the press never stresses this point.
Amen to Anonymous 3:41. In my CCW prep course, they told us exactly that. If you get pulled over, keep your hands high on the steering wheel when the officer approaches. Turn the dome light on if it’s dark out. Be respectful and courteous.
Is this a shock? Timmy Kaine ran in part on being respectful of the second Amendment, yet, he has taken every chance to undermine our rights.
Guns are already allowed in these places, so I do not understand why he would object. A criminal who carries a gun does not give two cents if he is breaking the law or not, so they are going to carry anyway.
More ammo for the Gubernatorial Race next year
Hey COM,
How else, exactly, has the Governor “taken every chance to undermine our rights”?
Typical hypocritical Democrat Party femine hygine container!
Govenor Kaine,
Are you kidding?? Do you realize how many CWP holders there are in Virginia, that VOTE ??
You may not be Govenor for another term with the type of dumb vietos that you just did.
Think about it. PLEASE !!!
It’s already ok to legally carry a gun in a bar OPENLY. But you just can not drink alcohol while carrying.. DUH !!!!!
It’s just common sense that if you carry concealed, People in the bar would be less afraid not knowing, except the resturant.
I thought you had the peoples own interest at heart. Not so I see.
It’s just like all BB&T, and Wachovia banks. They have this symbal on their front doors. It’s a handgun with a circle around it and a slash through it.
Meaning NO GUNS ALLOWED in there banks.
Govenor, you tell me. Who’s going to see that and abide by it?
I’ll tell you who. The Law Abiding, Honest, CWP holder that has a CWP.
We will leave our guns in our cars, instead of carrying them in a place that says not to.
And what will the criminal minded think? WOW ! Just like candy, there is nobody here that’s going to stop me from robing, shooting, killing, etc.
Think, That is why BB&T and Wachovia banks have been robbed more than any other banks.
It’s to bad that if someone was to be injured because YOU took there rights away from them, that they can’t sue YOU.
CWP holders are not the problem Govenor. The CLOSEd minded people and the people in denial are.
Thank You,
Rob Smalls (Inspiration of the BVBL 40K Post) said on 4 Mar 2008 at 4:00 pm:
Amen to Anonymous 3:41. In my CCW prep course, they told us exactly that. If you get pulled over, keep your hands high on the steering wheel when the officer approaches. Turn the dome light on if it’s dark out. Be respectful and courteous.
It should not matter if you have a CCW or not this is the smart thing to do. Any policeperson walking up to any vehicle will feel more at ease if you do this to show you have respect and concern for their feeling safe. You still get the ticket if you were speeding. Remeber if they ask you if you have had a drink today you say Yes. For you have had something to drink today even if it was water. That kind of throws them off a bit but often a smile from them.
“You may not be Govenor for another term with the type of dumb vietos that you just did.”
Aside from the superior spelling, I feel the need to point out that governors in Virginia are not permitted consecutive terms, the only state in the nation with such a restriction.
Leroy,
Have you paid any attention to the fall out from the Virginia Tech murders last year? Timmy is trying to tie in the so called gun show loop hole to the murders, even though the killer did not purchase his guns from a gun show.
Why would Timmy attempt to alter current law based on an event that had nothing to do with the event?
Well, thanks to Mr. Kaine I will start open carrying my firearm when I go out to eat. I hope it makes everyone around me uncomfortable. If they say something to me, I will just tell them that it is not me but the Governor who is making them uncomfortable. HAHAHA!!!
This is real simple folks:
Liberal Democrats hate guns and will vote to constrict your 2nd amendment rights whenever possible.
Tim Kaine does not care what you think, in that he cannot run for re-election. He does not need us.
If you are not a member of GOA or VCDL then join now ! These guys and gals are fighting for our gun rights. Help them !
GOOMBA ” 10:58 - A few years back some macho guys decided to show their macho-ness by walking down the main street in Reston Town Center with guns in full view. Went in to a coffee shop too. Guess it made them feel R E A L good (or safe). Wouldn’t have been much fun finding them hanging out at a bar with that hardware handy.
GOOMBA,
You’re required by law to open carry in an ABC licensed restaurant.
If you’ve been concealing you were breaking the law.
Krutis,
Once again, “Why the Gun is Civilization”
http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-gun-is-civilization.html
“Macho” has nothing to do with it.
100 years ago only the “bad guys” hid their guns. Honest law-abiding citizens had no need to hide their guns. Carrying a gun is the birth-right of every citizen of this country. While you may choose not to, the fact is that guns are one of the cornerstones of this country. You don’t like it you’re free to go to one of the other countries that restricts gun ownership.
Regardless of public sentiment 100 years ago, gun owners today realize the benefits of protective coloration — criminals have no way to know who is armed, which protects everyone.
Concealed carry in restaurants also allows Virginians to enjoy an evening out without the risk of some nervous Nellie from New Jersey calling the police and causing a scene.
I own a gun in my home and respect the rights of other gun owners. I keep my firearm safe eight ways to Sunday to protect my kids. Their safety is my first priority. I have actually left a meal out, took my children and left, because I saw someone open carrying who made me uncomfortable - he was loud and appeared to be drinking alcohol. It was completely legal for him to do so, so there was no need for me to cause a scene, but given his behavior and demeanor, I doubted his ability to make good decisions with his firearm. My right and responsibility as a parent is to protect to my children, so we left. The vast majority of people, usually men, who choose to open carry conduct themselves in a manner that I would not have felt the need to do this, but in one case I did.
GOOMBA, it is mean spirited comments like yours that will continue to diminish the image of gun owners in more moderate folk like myself. I would never say anything to you about your right to open carry. It is your right. But if you public act like a idiot in front of my family while in possession of a firearm, it is my right to leave to keep them safe. Does that make me a nervous Nellie? Probably. But I don’t mind a bit.
Krustis,
Those men were not breaking the law, in fact they were following the law if they did not have a CHP. Why do you liberals hate parts of the Bill Of Rights?
Anon,
I agree. Maybe it is the crowd I hang out with, but I have never seen people act in such a manner when carrying. I think the vast majority of gun owners understand the responsibility of gun ownership.
CoM 8:25 - Did I say that they were breaking the law?
So what Kaine is saying is that *law-abiding* CCW permit holders are more of a danger than all those people consuming alcohol and then getting in their cars and driving. DUI’ers and DWI’ers safer than CCW permit holders. What a crock. I’d be real interested in the statistics between the number of injuries/deaths caused by CCW permit holders versus the number of injuries/deaths caused by drunk drivers.
RH,
CCW permit holders have a lower percentage of “bad shoots” than the police do.
Generally this is because the police arrive at the scene after an incident is developed and must, in many cases, make a snap decision on who the “bad guy” is. (Look up “blue on blue” incidents.)
Permit holders are involved from the start and usually have a pretty clear idea of who the threat is.
Permit holders are generally going to be engaging at closer range than police officers so their hits have a lower chance of being off target.
Permit holders generally are the solo participant in their encounters so group tactics like covering fire aren’t employed.
The thing that you should take away from all of this is that, generally, its safer and more effective (for everyone concerned) for a permit holder to resist force than to rely on the police.
So rednecks want to wear guns while dining. . .I guess I’ll have to frequent the real expensive places that don’t serve onion rings.
Jay-
Be nice. Nobody is calling you names.
My neck is quite pale, thank you.
Krutis,
Then why bring it up? That is like saying, I saw some person driving the speed limit in their large horse power car. Why even mention it, if you were not otherwise just trying to cause issues? Or trying to imply they were breakign the law.
Jay,
I do not like onion rings….
Jay,
You should attend the next VCDL meeting. It would probably help clear up a number of misconceptions you seem to have.
Jay, I want to be able to run errands with my children and then take them into a Chipotle without having to either lock my firearm in my car or alter my wardrobe significantly to comply with Virginia law. That’s all.
All you guys are missing the point. Timmy wants to be Obama’s VP runningmate. Obama disrespects gunowners, so Timmy disrespects gunowners.
Hi everyone, I guess I need to explain where I was coming from with my comment I left last night. First of all, I have never concealed in an ABC restaurant. I know the law concerning open and concealed carry. What I meant was that since our wonderful Gov has vetoed it, I now will have to carry openly, which I have not yet begun to do. #2 — I do not drink alcohol at all (at home or socially). #3 — I did not make the comment in a mean spirited way. The fact that I want to make sure my family and I are protected at all times should not be construed as being mean spirited. My point was that if you are uncomfortable with me protecting my family then too bad. I t is your right to be uncomfortable just as it is my right to protect my family. I have the ability to CC so why not be able to CC in an ABC restaurant. Those of us who have a CHP have demonstrated that we are law abiding citizens and I seriously doubt there would be CHP holders getting hammered at bars because of this bill if it became law. As usual GUN = CRAZY REDNECK in the general public’s eyes. As we have all seen in the past few years, more and more deranged people are out there and I don’t plan to be a victim. Who knows, a CHP holder may actually save an anti-gunners life because the CHP holder decided to openly carry in an ABC restaurant. #4 — After reading my comment over again, I can see where you may think I was trying to sound macho. Far from it. I was angry because I had just found out that he was vetoing the bills in question. Sorry if it came across that way. I really would hope that people would not feel uncomfortable but I should not give up my right of protection because someone is uncomfortable.
RH said on 5 Mar 2008 at 11:13 am:
So what Kaine is saying is that *law-abiding* CCW permit holders are more of a danger than all those people consuming alcohol and then getting in their cars and driving. DUI’ers and DWI’ers safer than CCW permit holders. What a crock. I’d be real interested in the statistics between the number of injuries/deaths caused by CCW permit holders versus the number of injuries/deaths caused by drunk drivers.
Why dont we kill two birds so to speak and make it justifiable for people open carrying in a bar to shoot drunks getting into the driver seats of cars.
The Senate failed to override, it’s dead fro this year.
This one is easy. Which period of our history had more people per argument killed rather than just “beat-up”.
The wild west saloon of the 1850s?, or the modern DC bar with a “seedy” crowd.
Which period in history had more innocent policmen killed, than bad guys? The roaring 20’s when every criminal or mafia member carried guns, or the modern 2008 gangs and mafia hits on policemen and judges.
Which period in history had more innocent chidren killed from discovery of revolvers hidden under the bed, the early 1700s when indians were everywhere, and you needed a weapon to protect your family or the 2000’s when you need a weapon in your house and your care to protect your family.
True or false? a guy with a gun who wants to shoot you in a convience store he is robbing can be killed with “pepper” spray.
Which happened more often, a guy with a gun, can be killed by a student at Virginia tech, before he kills others happens more often than, a student at Harvard killed a fellow student over a “dual” over a girl’s affections and betrayal?
True or false? a sick-o can get a gun as easily as a non-sicko?
True or False? A sick-o with a gun, or a criminal with a gun, is going to shoot more innocent people more often and wrongly than a law-abiding citizen with a gun is going to accidently shoot an innocent person or police officer?
True or False? a criminal can always get a gun, no matter what the law says.
True or false? An innocent person is more often killed than a criminal with a gun?
True or False? A law abiding citizen with a concealed weapon is more likely to shoot an officer, that if he caries it out in the open?
TRue or False a criminal with a concealed weapon will have it concealed anyway without a permit, and is more likely to shoot an officer, than if the carries it out in the open because his permit says he has to.
Really which society had more violence, the Wild west where everyone carried guns, or crime neighborhoods where everyone carries guns? You can’t base this on what you see in the movies.
Can we make a weapon that will stop a criminal dead in his tracks faster than he can shoot you with a gun, and not harm a policemen that is wearing protection and the necessary armor for his job?
Personally I vote for only “large” easily visible guns to protect homes and cars (legally) as a built in feature, no small hidden guns, but small hidden self protection devices that really work to stop bullets and bad guys, But FIRST we hunt down the criminals and kill them without a second thought or lock them away with harsher punishment laws, that don’t let them roam the streets of innocents, no matter what it costs us. Get rid of parole, and other ways of minimizing sentences and make all crimes with guns by criminals VERY HARSH. If they carry sticks, then let the punishment be light.
Legal Tasers, rather than small arms, maybe as concealed protection weapons? Can they work faster than guns?
It has to shoot fast and it has to work as quicky as a slug fired point blank.