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Debate With John Steinbach, Part 3

By Greg L | 7 March 2008 | Zapatistas, Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 30 Comments

While I vigorously disagree with John Steinbach on just about every issue we discussed, I did find him a polite and well-spoken man who behaved with dignity.  Mexicans Without Borders is probably pretty fortunate to have Mr. Steinbach as a spokesman.  Given what I’ve seen from the rest of Mexicans Without Borders, he is probably the best they’ve got.

I wonder if public discussions like this, if they happened on a more frequent basis, wouldn’t be a great way to educate the public about the various perspectives on the illegal alien problem.  Going head-to-head like this does seem to provide a good opportunity for the facts to get out and really test the policy positions that opposing sides have on this issue.  Head-to-head debates are an awfully healthy and productive thing.

George Mason University took a stab at this last summer, but with the intent to create a “dialog” rather than a debate, and I guess that didn’t generate the results they were hoping for.  Help Save Manassas was not invited to subsequent events, nor have any other organizations representing an alternative viewpoint from Mexicans Without Borders.  I guess the practice of “conflict resolution” is a lot easier when you only have one side at the table.  Regardless, the public benefit of that effort was pretty limited.

I’d think that the Prince William Committee of 100 might pick up where this left off, although it would effectively make for a joint meeting of Help Save Manassas and Mexicans Without Borders, which might not be a really great idea.  Public meetings at the McCoart Center have been relatively incident-free, but with a dynamic situation in the county right now it’s hard to predict whether that will indefinitely continue.  I hope it does.  It should.

Doing this in a studio makes things a little easier, but there are only a few opportunities for studio debates to happen.  We’ve been working on the Rule Of Law Resolution since June of 2007, and here we are in March, and this is only the second time Mexicans Without Borders and Help Save Manassas have had to directly answer each other, and this was the first time we had to answer the same questions and even respond to each other.  I’m sure it’s a ratings winner for News Channel 8, and hope other media outlets figure out that not only could be a good service to provide to their audience, but an economic winner for them as well.

I look forward to other opportunities like this, and I hope John Steinbach is the person I speak with not because I think he’s the easiest person to debate, but because he’s the most worthy opponent I think they have, and also a genuinely decent human being.  I can respect the man, even if I disagree with him.



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30 Comments

  1. Anonymous said on 8 Mar 2008 at 1:54 am:
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    Nice job on presenting the points. Those apologists can really be a nutty bunch. No one can be that thick, so they must play ignorant on purpose.

  2. Citizen 12 said on 8 Mar 2008 at 2:47 am:
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    What was evident in this discussion is played out with every other discussion like it. That is the fact that the pro-illegal side blows right over the initial law breaking and goes right into defending what they do after this. It should be clear to everyone that until the issue of being here illegally is corrected, there is really nothing else to talk about. While John continued to drag out more issues and unrelated stories i.e. migrants in Michigan, in order to try and put distance on how they illegally got here by, Greg did a great job of pulling it back to the issue at heart.

  3. Thumper said on 8 Mar 2008 at 3:01 am:
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    Anon at 154, it’s not that they are ignorant, they just seriously believe it’s their “right” to come here.

  4. Joe Budzinski said on 8 Mar 2008 at 3:56 am:
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    Good job, Greg!

    It is not easy to respond to the opponents of the rule of law because they skirt the main issue. When the question is cost to taxpayers, they talk about the rights of non-taxpayers (or, to be more exact, “sales tax” payers, which I am sure every one of us would love to be).

    Here’s hoping you get more air time.

  5. Herndon Bob said on 8 Mar 2008 at 6:18 am:
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    We need more public debate on the immigration issue. This was an excellent presentation of the opposing views of the immigration issue. Let’s hope the public and our public representatives were listening.

  6. Dignidad said on 8 Mar 2008 at 7:18 am:
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    It’s interesting that Mr. Steinbach believes that the foreclosure rate in this area is largely because of PW’s policies. I thought the high foreclosure rate was because people got mortgages they couldn’t reasonably expect to pay.

  7. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 8 Mar 2008 at 7:50 am:
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    http://www.wehirealiens.com/index.asp
    Look at this GEM I just found this morning! You can look up businesses that have been identified as possibly hiring illegal aliens. I am going to have to review this thing.

  8. Old Soldier said on 8 Mar 2008 at 8:23 am:
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    Well done, sir! I notice most (I think all but one) of the callers supported PWC and the Resolution (and the one that didn’t just wanted to talk about the war).

  9. Scott said on 8 Mar 2008 at 8:46 am:
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    I did find him a polite and well-spoken man who behaved with dignity.

    Greg… yer a class act too.

    Great job on this. Great job. I appreciate your efforts.

  10. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 8 Mar 2008 at 8:47 am:
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    http://www.wehirealiens.com/index.asp
    WOW! I just read alot of the comments for businesses in VA (particularly in our local area). Amazing! Definitely check out this resource. It rebuts what John S. was saying about the criminal behavior of illegal aliens.

  11. legal2 said on 8 Mar 2008 at 8:49 am:
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    Kudos, Greg! I think the moderator did a great job, too. I guess it’s a bit easier to moderate when both sides are reasonable people to deal with. Keep up the good work, HSM!

  12. Patty said on 8 Mar 2008 at 9:00 am:
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    So now John S. is blaming foreclosures on the Rule of Law resolution. I guess he is still out of touch with reality. The illegal aliens and those who harbored them could no longer afford their fancy sub prime loans (No money down, bad credit history, no credit history).

    I’m sure Lafayette and Redawn can shed light on the foreclosures in Prince William County.

    As a matter of fact, here is what I’ve seen on signs that were popping up in my neigbhorhood:

    Mortgages
    Rates As Low As 5.5%
    Consolidate Debt
    Refinance ARMS
    Good/Bad Credit
    Cash Out
    100% Financing w/No Credit

    (703) 307-XXXX

  13. Bravo Two Zero said on 8 Mar 2008 at 9:55 am:
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    Greg,

    What I kept noticing is that you would provide easily verifiable specifics (number of PWC murders committed by illegal aliens, percentage of the jail population, sex-trafficing, $15 Million in unpaid medical bills, etc) but Stienbach spoke in generalities (”a study showed”) and advanced arguments not provable (illegal aliens are less likely to use the system). I also noticed that when cornered, Stienbach started crying about the greater issues like “affordable housing”. I thought “is he feaking kidding me?” With all of the forclosed houses in the area going up for auction, we are up to our ears in “affordable housing”. Nancy Lyall tried the same thing during your debate with her. She tried to blame the whole thing on NAFTA.

    Great job!

  14. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 8 Mar 2008 at 10:14 am:
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    Hopefully, the businesses that choose to continue to hire illegal aliens will “foreclose” too!

  15. TDB said on 8 Mar 2008 at 11:05 am:
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    Patriot-I noticed PWC Schools are listed on wehirealiens.com as an employer hiring illegals.

  16. G Man said on 8 Mar 2008 at 11:47 am:
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    I did wish you would have had a copy of the Casa de Maryland instructions that MWB was handing out last week to support the case that MWB is the ones creating the fear in the Latino community. Right on the cover it says: Prepare yourself for Immigration Raids, and has an image of ICE taking away a Hispanic in handcuffs.

  17. silverfox said on 8 Mar 2008 at 11:59 am:
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    “And this specimen is part of our public school system?”

    ATTENTION TO THE MANASSAS PUBLIC SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS:

    Step up to the box here and begin to public educate all of us through this blog and other medias just what the criteria for hiring teachers and all school personnel actually is in the MCPS. You have a job to serve the constituents that elected you into your positions. Is it too much to expect you could build a bridge for communication sake? Are not the parents and their children deserving of something more than we are getting from all of you?

  18. Loudoun said on 8 Mar 2008 at 12:19 pm:
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    TDB

    On wehirealiens.com, if you click on Prince William County Public Schools, it is a complaint from an employee that indicates that the schools educate children who are not legally in this country. Luckily, PWCPS hasn’t been convicted of hiring illegal aliens.

    Because of Plyer v. Doe, all children not born in this country are entitled to an education. I don’t agree with the case, because the 14th Amendment was written explicitly to provide citizenship to slaves. I am sure our forefathers did not intend that the 14th Amendment should apply to anyone who illegally enters our country of their own free will.

  19. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 8 Mar 2008 at 12:24 pm:
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    Nonetheless, the website shows many different businesses and how they operate. Seems…like the identity theft, social security number theft, paying “under the table” is really going on based on the claims of potential “insiders”. Additionally, seems that alot of the businesses listed are using day laborers.

  20. Ducky said on 8 Mar 2008 at 1:59 pm:
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    Loudon wrote:
    Luckily, PWCPS hasn’t been convicted of hiring illegal aliens.

    Neither has any other business on tha site, I would suspectm been “convicted” of hiring illegals, if that’s the proper criterion for making the list.

    Very few businesses have actually been “convicted.”

    Think about it folks - Virginia Power, Verizon, Comcast and Cox, county schools and hospitals - are we going to run all of them out of business for hiring an illegal alien?

    Should we boycott all telephone, power, internet and cable companies, and health care providers?

    That is completely impractial. Get real, people.

  21. Mike Austin said on 8 Mar 2008 at 2:49 pm:
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    Greg: Great job. You should do that again soon. What happened to Lyall?

  22. Greg L said on 8 Mar 2008 at 2:54 pm:
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    I never got an explanation why MWB switched spokesmen. Maybe Nancy was busy. Maybe they figured it was time to try someone else after the last time we did a live show on NewsChannel 8. If their strategy is to tag-team me, I’m just hoping that I get to face off with Ricky next, or maybe even Arnoldo Borjas, if his english is good enough.

  23. Greg L said on 8 Mar 2008 at 2:58 pm:
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    Ducky, I’d be happy if they’d just put a few of the executives responsible for wanton violations of our immigration laws in jail for a while. Once these guys start seeing some of their own getting an extended vacation at a federal minimum security prison, they’ll change their behavior right quick.

  24. The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 9 Mar 2008 at 6:12 am:
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    When can we expect Nancy, John, and Ricky to be investigated for possible “aiding and abetting” illegal aliens? Is there not sufficient “probably cause” for this?

  25. CitizenofManassas said on 9 Mar 2008 at 8:11 pm:
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    Ducky,

    If you had a friend who was a sexual predator, would you continue to be his friend?

    The point is that we simply should not allow people to get away with breaking the law.

  26. ThinkAboutIt said on 10 Mar 2008 at 12:23 pm:
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    One thing that I thought was funny was the fact that he stated that even though the illegal population has more than doubled recently…the violent crimes rates have gone down. This apparently means that illeglas must not committ crimes.

    Of course later he stated that illegals are not reporting crimes…..so doesnt A + B = C?

    Even if crimes rates are going up….if less people report them than before, it would appear that they are going down.

  27. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 10 Mar 2008 at 3:23 pm:
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    Loudoun said on 8 Mar 2008 at 12:19 pm

    The debates I have read from the time do not include the way it is interpreted today. The framers did not want to afford auto citizenship to those who entered the country ILLEGALLY.

  28. /\/\3|)iç 64 (Winner of the BVBL 40k and 50k post award) said on 10 Mar 2008 at 3:37 pm:
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    The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 8 Mar 2008 at 12:24 pm:

    Use VA as the only search criteria and see what comes up.

  29. Michael said on 12 Mar 2008 at 8:53 pm:
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    Extremely well done Greg.

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