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Tuition Rates, Citizenship, And Illegal Aliens
By Greg L | 14 March 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Virginia Politics | 51 Comments
Today’s Washington Post has an article regarding American citizens who are being denied in-state tuition rates because their parents are illegal aliens that demonstrates some of the complexity involved in the issue of illegal aliens and taxpayer-supported public Universities. Because college students are largely dependent on their parents, the financial position of those parents and their legal status does come into play in determining the qualifications for financial aid and reduced tuition rates, and seeking a consistent and fair means of applying these rules is hardly an easy task. But in some of these cases, it shouldn’t really be as hard as it seems.
We do not hold children accountable for the sins of their parents, and we apply the law equally to all Americans. Even though this risks opening up all sorts of thorny issues, denying in-state tuition to American citizens on the basis of their parent’s legal status is just plain wrong. Fortunately, it appears that Universities are correcting this problem on their own, and no effort has been made in the Virginia legislature to prevent them from doing so.
As many of us in the debate argue that the rule of law is paramount, we must ensure that argument is applied in an absolutely consistent manner. American citizens are, and should be afforded every right and privilege of citizenship solely in the basis of their individual status. Those who are foreign nationals must comply with all of our laws, including federal immigration laws, or risk being held to account and deported. There is no second-tier of American citizenship that applies to those who have parents whom are not citizens, and there is no special level of privilege that applies to illegal aliens whom happen to have relatives who are citizens. Rights are an individual thing, and apply strictly to the individual.
This should, and I am certain will be, corrected rather quickly.
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That is a very good point, one Mike Huckabee was trying to remedy in Arkansas, And that bill formed the basis of Romney accusation that Huckabee supported in-state tuition for children of illegals (True, But very deceptive wording).
The remarks on the W/P’s website to this article clarify very well why this kid was denied in-state tuition, and the good reasons for that denial.
http://immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=6032
“Mexican Consulate Claims United States Will Be Mexico”
Watch the video!
Speaking of school….I just received a census card in the mail today. I wonder if ALL the families (to include illegal aliens) will be REQUIRED to submit their forms??? Will someone be stopping by those residents if they do not submit their forms?
Scrolling through the comments over at the WashPo, the explanation for this seems to be as follows:
“A student, under the age of 24, with no visible means of support, falls under the category of a “dependent” in Tax Law (i.e. minor). His parents (if they file taxes) can list him as a legal dependent and take the deduction.
If the student is receiving any kind of tuition assistance, the assistance is based on the income of the parents. To determine that income, the parents must prove legal status along with their tax returns for the required number of years.”
What this suggests is that the Washington Post article may be somewhat misleading, and that this is not the case of a citizen being denied in-state tuition because his parents are illegal, but that his parents were unable to provide the necessary documentation required under VA Code Section 23-7.4 to show Virginia residency while they claimed this student as a dependent for tax purposes. This is an important distinction. Certainly the legal status of the parents played a role here, but it’s not as if there actually is a rule that states that the children of illegal aliens cannot get in-state tuition in Virginia.
I’m disappointed that the Washington Post failed to explain this.
The Post’s article was misleading, but that comment clarified it. Too bad it won’t go into the print edition.
Your expectations of the W/P should not be so high. Then you won’t be disappointed. After all, they hire from the same gene pool that Jayson Blair came from.
These are the main factors used to demonstrate residence for in-state tuition purposes:
* Continuous residence in Virginia
* Social and economic ties
* Ownership of real property
* Sources of financial support
* Current employment in Virginia
* Employment in Virginia postgraduation
* Military records
* State to which income taxes are paid
* Voter registration and actual voting
* Driver’s license
* Motor vehicle registration
Obviously one doesn’t need to qualify on each and every count. But if Nelson Lopez’s parents have been living here for over 18 years, which of these red-flagged the fact that they are illegal aliens?
Greg L said “Rights are an individual thing, and apply strictly to the individual.”
So then why did he promote a resolution that will not be applied to white people but will be applied to minorities?
A slight change of subject, but in today’s mail I received
a letter from Prince William Public Schools that
on the front envelope notes in red “Important School
Census Information Enclosed” and “Please Respond
Promptly” - that is fine except I clearly live in the
city limits of Manassas that, of course, has its own
school system and does its own census. The PWCPS
mailing to city residents is a waste of money and
could easily cause confusion. Someone needs to
provide them with a map.
Veritas, I was unaware the resolution was only applied to Minorities. I thought it was applied to illegal immigrants which can be from any country and look like anyone.
Please point out which part of resolution that specifies it only applies to minorities.
Big Dog, what I want to know is….will the census people go knocking on ALL doors (particularly in known illegal alien areas) to ensure EVERYONE turns their forms in? You know…equal application of the rules.
Veritas said on 14 Mar 2008 at 3:09 pm:
The resolution has nothing to do about people of a certain color. As I have read it, the resolution applies to ALL ILLEGAL aliens. It does not specify a certain color.
Your views are precisely why people think this is about the Hispanics, when the resolution has noting in it about Hispanics specifically. It deals with the ILLEGAL alien population in PWC. Hispanics seem to think they have the market cornered on ILLEGAL alien status.
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 14 Mar 2008 at 4:14 pm:
You know they are not going to do that. What I can’t figure out is why wasn’t this done before now so they could have the numbers for the budget already in place. My guess would be, they want to fudge the numbers and then come back and say, you see, we have to have more money.
But hasn’t this very same topic been discussed on this blog before - the fact that anchor babies keep the illegal aliens here - and we are funding their continued ignorance of our laws.
Haven’t many of you said that the whole family, anchor baby and all - should be sent back to their country of origin.
Yes, the boy is a citizen, but for him to get in state rates, we are paying for that - what about the family that has a summer home in VA, should they get in state tuition? Then why should this person - they are not legal residents of VA.
Catawba said on 14 Mar 2008 at 2:17 pm:
Obviously one doesn’t need to qualify on each and every count. But if Nelson Lopez’s parents have been living here for over 18 years, which of these red-flagged the fact that they are illegal aliens?
Take your pick!
“”"”Yes, the boy is a citizen, but for him to get in state rates, we are paying for that - what about the family that has a summer home in VA, should they get in state tuition? Then why should this person - they are not legal residents of VA.”"”"”
I think this is an EXCELLENT point!
Greg, this is where you and I part ways. Sob stories like this absolutely ENRAGE me. Now that the family is “outed” as illegal…I hope ICE comes knocking soon.
In-state tuition in VA is unfair and discriminatory. We have lived in VA since 1999, and our children graduated from VA high schools. We paid property taxes on two properties in VA (one in PWC, one in Va Beach).
I worked and paid VA state taxes, until my oldest was a senior in HS. I then resigned because there were no services available for our special needs son (and I was informed it was because budget $$ were being diverted from the needs of LEGITIMATE residents to meet the needs of the burgeoning illegal population). My daughter WORKED as a part time employee at GMU, where she was attending school. SHE was denied in-state tuition because her dad is active duty military and claims another state as his home of record, and I did not file a VA state income tax return the year immediately preceding her application.
Appeals to GMU *AND* our illegal alien in-state tuition lovin’ senator, Colgan, were met with deaf ears and more than a little bit of ‘tude.
So…no “exceptions” for military families (the law has since been changed), no “compassion”, and definitely no services for our special needs son until we spent thousands in legal fees.
But illegals…..the welcome mat is open in VA.
I applaud our attorney general. You are right in that we don’t condemn the children for the actions of the parents, but
WE DON”T REWARD THEM EITHER.
The WaPo makes me sick. I hope the Lopez family gets a one way ticket back to where ever they came from.
The bile, the bile. Here we have an intelligent young man who, by getting a college education, will become a contributing, tax paying human being (YES, HE IS A CITIZEN AND A HUMAN BEING) and he’s being denied in-state tuition because of his PARENTS being illegal. Makes no sense!
Krutis, yes it does make sense! He should be denied! Why? Because it will send a message to other illegals that being illegal does not pay! We must get rid of all incentives and this is one of them. Too bad! It will be a BIG lesson this student will learn in life….that illegal behavior does not pay.
It also makes sense if, like most college students, his parents are helping to foot the bill, applying for financial aid, loans, etc. I don’t think it would be such a problem, IF the student were going it on his own.
As a child of a retired Army officer (39 years active duty) who chose to have his tax home and domicile in a state with no income tax, and who, accordingly paid no income tax in Virginia while I was in high school, I, too, was categorized as an out of state student when it came time to apply to college. But, my parents never questionned whether they had a right to taxpayer subsidized in-state tuition for their children in Virginia since they weren’t Virginia income taxpayers (by their own choice). (Real estate taxes, which they, too, paid are local taxes that subsidize public schools and local police but not colleges). So, I went out of state to college because, at the time, there were cheaper out of state schools for me to attend than Virginia schools. And, I worked to become emancipated (legally and financially) so that when I applied to law school, I could establish domicile separately from my parents.
The law has since changed, and Virginia now automatically gives in-state status to active duty personnel and their dependents even if they maintain their tax homes in other states.
At the same, time, however, Virginia continues to deny the citizen and non-citizen children of undocumented parents even the chance to show eligibility for in-state tuition by proving that they (or their parents) have paid state income taxes for three years, lived in Virginia for three years, graduated from Virginia schools, and are on the path to legalization. That is what Senate Bill 652 would have allowed (and all it would have allowed).
And, believe me, I am sympathetic to the issue of inadequate funding/support for special needs children — my mother was a leader in the fight for the right to education for special needs children before there was such a thing in our Virginia constitution or federal law. See, http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?061+ful+HJ257ER
But, I also know from experience that it is an all too convenient diversion to tell a parent that a child in need of special services isn’t getting them because needed funds are being diverted to pay for services for “illegal” immigrants. The fact is that there have never been sufficient funds authorized or appropriated either by the state or federal government to pay for adequate educational programs for special needs children. This was true in the sixties when my mom was fighting for basic educational services before there was any issue about illegal immigration, and it is true now. Parents shouldn’t allow educators and budget writers to scapegoat immigrant children to explain their refusal to meet their legal obligation to provide a free and appropriate education for a special needs child. This is a long-standing problem that, if we allow it, will continue long after the “illegal immigration” problem is solved.
Times are tough when Dolph is Greg’s only friend on this issue. If the young man is a US citizen and has resided in Virginia for the past year, I don’t care if his parents are Martians. He is entitled to instate tuition.
The State of Virgnia and the nay sayers can presume all they want to presume. I know many a kid who has footed the entire bill through college and who has a mountain of college loans. Who is borrowing the money? the kid or the parents? Who is attending school? To whom does the bill go?
I expect they got caught because they told the truth. That will teach them.
I don’t like denying people an education. It is the one thing that is the great equalizer.
Greg, I am pleased to see the demand for consistency.
Patriot 6:24 pm - HE is not illegal! HE is a legal citizen! The lesson he will have learned is that it doesn’t pay to work hard in school in order to be able to further one’s education and become a contributing member of our society.
Claire,
That was my point. My husband is active duty, but *I* paid VA state income taxes, and car tax on *my* car as well as property taxes for five years, and my daughter was denied in-state….quite rudely.
A college education is not a “right” or an entitlement.
It is also inappropriate to divert financial aid resources, which are limited, to support the children of illegal aliens, when they are more than enough generational Virginians who do not receive adequate funding to attend school. My son attended UVA -Wise and the generational poverty and lack of opportunities in the Blue Ridge/Appalachian areas of Virginia is heart-rending. Giving limited resources to the child of illegal aliens means that someone else whose parents are LEGAL residents loses. And that’s not right.
This is a debate about priorities, resources and entitlements. And I refuse to support any policy or redirection of resources that rewards the choices of illegal aliens and their children.
Krutis,
So were my children. He is a financial dependent of his parents, who are NOT legal permanent residents and NOT entitled to state resources.
Perhaps the lesson will be learned that just because you had an anchor baby and successfully lived below the radar for two decades does not mean you are entitled to the resources that rightfully below to legal residents and their families. That there is a price to be paid for your choices and that being a successful cheat for years does not earn you a free pass and the “reward” of a heavily taxpayer subsidized post secondary education for your children. College education is NOT a right and is not federally mandated, as is K-12.
Anonymous said on 14 Mar 2008 at 7:05 pm:
I expect they got caught because they told the truth. That will teach them.
And the truth will set them free!
USMCwife 7:14 “…there is a price to be paid for your choices…” It’s VERY difficult to choose one’s parents. “…and that being a successful cheat for years…” Nelson Lopez was not a cheat. Maybe his parents were BUT HE WAS NOT!
Another lesson learned “choose your parents with utmost care, or else”.
Krutis said on 14 Mar 2008 at 5:58 pm:
The bile, the bile. Here we have an intelligent young man who, by getting a college education, will become a contributing, tax paying human being (YES, HE IS A CITIZEN AND A HUMAN BEING) and he’s being denied in-state tuition because of his PARENTS being illegal. Makes no sense!
If he is so determined to continue his education there are ways. My understanding is that only state-funded universities are barred from providing in-state tuition for illegal alens. NOVA community college would be most happy to sign him up with no questions asked.
999 8:54 - If that is so, then I do hope he starts out at NOVA. I’m not up on the restrictions when it comes to community colleges, but I know they are great jumping off points for four year institutions.
Bye - I’m going to watch 20/20.
Krutis…NO NO and NO again! NO INCENTIVES. EVER!
This anonymous at 7:05 is me, Dolph. I had to reload my operating system and didn’t realize I was anonymous.
NOVA is state funded. Same deal.
USMC wife, you and your kids got screwed. It was my understanding that military kids can now get the in state tuition.
I don’t think Mr. Lopez should be denied. I don’t think your kids should have been denied. These are 2 different situtations but both are dead wrong.
Patriot,
We should all send emails to that diplomat. Here is what I sent to the email address on the video.
Sir,
Your recent comments in San Diego about this being your country is clearly wrong. I doubt that your efforts to invade by sending your mexican citizens one by one over the walls or thru the tunnels will be successful. You have provoked the American People and we are now awake and insisting our elected officials enforce and close our borders. San Diego will never be part of Mexico, not in my lifetime for sure. Most likely not in yours. You are younger than me based on your picture in the video, but I have faith in our citizens to hold our politicians feet to the fire to secure the borders.
r,
A loyal member of Help Save the Old Dominion
That’s Virginia, also not becoming Mexico. Wait and see how many mexicans we deport in our county, our state and our country over the next year.
Dolph said on 14 Mar 2008 at 10:35 pm:
NOVA is state funded. Same deal.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A55650-2002Nov29¬Found=true
The boy described in the article sure developed a strong sense of entitlement. What’s wrong with community college? And working your way through college? UVa is very competitive–I wonder if affirmative action kicked in for him?
This anchor baby scam has got to be stopped. We can’t afford it.
This issue is just bunk. If this kid doesn’t like it that his parents are preventing him from getting in-state tuition than he can just suck it up. If they declare him as a dependent then so be it.
We all have our challenges to get ourselves through school. When I was in college I needed to pay for it myself, but I was denied financial aid because I was told that family assets prevented it. The following semester I just declared myself independent (not declared a a dependent on tax returns of course) and applied for things based on my income and assets…problem solved.
Later in life, I returned to school in another state and was denied in-state tuition even though I had lived and worked in that state for over a year. Those were the rules..I appealed, I lost, and I dealt with it. Their reasoning was that I did not have “family or enough connection” to the state. So, I just persisted and made sure I found a way to qualify the following semester.
Those were the rules…I knew them going in….I abided by them. It never occurred to me to try to have the rules changed after the fact by holding myself out as a member of some sort of “victim class” who needed special benefits.
999,
I missed your point. NOVA is state funded and students without legal status do not get in-state tuition. Please elaborate on your point.
He is not being denied an education - in fact he did get a state sponsored education in the state of Virginia.
He is not being denied entry into a Virginia State college or university - he does not qualify for in state tuition rates. What if my nephew wanted to go to UVA, could he move to my house in the last year of high school, graduate from high school, and then qualify for being a VA state resident for in state tuition? I hope not - that is called working the system.
He can become emacipate himself from his family, and set up his own domicile - he will then be a legal resident of VA.
There is criteria to prove residency, as noted by someone previous - does he qualify - if the answer is no, then the answer is no.
It is funny, because Colgan supported a bill that said that a person had to meet the following criteria for in state tuition -
Parents had to have filed tax returns for the past three years, the student graduated from a Virginia high school, and the student was in a documented path to us citizenship - and you all cried that he was giving in state tuition to illegal aliens.
As far as the military - my utmost respect for them and their family - but if you do not change your residency to this state, well, then you should not be entitled to this state’s benefits. I know many military people choose florida as their home state - to avoid state taxes - they do not change their state of residency because they do not want to pay state taxes, so why should they get in state tuition?
Pat.Herve,
Mrs. USMC worked and paid state taxes. Does she not count as a parent? Furthermore, I am not so sure ‘paying taxes’ is the only criteria that should be used for in state tuition criteria.
Young Mr. Lopez is a United States citizen. He has lived most of his life in Virginia. That should end the discussion. Whether we like it or not, the 14th amendment gives birthright citizenship to those born in the United States. He was.
The kid can declare independent status.
I think the reason he feels victiomized is because his parents are poor enough (5 people in 2 bedrooms) that he would qualify for Pell Grants or government gioveaways that most of us can’t get … but can’t ebcause of the illegal status. Instead he would have to declare independence, move out of that 2/5 of a bedroom he occupies, get a job, and then borrow most of the money. Just like many, many American kids.
No sympathy from me. There are lots of sob stories about college funding. As usual we only hear about the ones relating to illegal aliens.
Rick Bentley said on 15 Mar 2008 at 9:00 am:
The kid can declare independent status.
Maybe he can lobby Mexico for a free education because of all the money his folks sent back there.
http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/undocumented.phtml
Federal Student Aid
If the student is a US Citizen but one or more parents are undocumented, the student is eligible for federal student aid. However, if the parents supply a fake or stolen social security number (SSN) on the form, the student’s FAFSA will be rejected when the parent’s social security number fails to match. The FAFSA may also be rejected when the parents submit a SSN or Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) that is valid for work purposes only. If the parents do not have a social security number or the social security number fails the match, they should use 000-00-0000 as their social security number on the FAFSA form.
Dolph said on 15 Mar 2008 at 5:46 am:
999,
I missed your point. NOVA is state funded and students without legal status do not get in-state tuition. Please elaborate on your point.
Here’s the way they get around it:
http://chronicle.com/news/article/2918/some-immigrants-get-in-state-tuition-in-virginia
“Whether we like it or not, the 14th amendment gives birthright citizenship to those born in the United States. He was.”
I have to disagree specifically with your wording here, Dolph: The 14th Amendment did not give birthright citizenship to these people…the Supreme Court INTERPRETED it to give birthright citizenship to these people. This does not, however, obligate the states to provide in-state tuition to ALL citizens…each state has the right to set their own critieria. The in-state tuition issue has absolutely nothing to do with the 14th Amendment.
And when it’s time to pay back that student aid, the graduate mom and dad will go back to Mexico or wherever, while we pay the bill.
They don’ t want to be Americans, doesn’t anyone get that??? They want to turn America into Mexico.
They are here for the money and the benefits, but that’s it. That’s why they invest in things they can take with them, like cars and not houses.
It’s actually an easy fix. The student in question gets a job (like my husband had to b/c of his parents refusal to pay), and lives on his own for a year and works full time, then applies for a loan. As an adult he will pay taxes, and then apply for a loan. Or he could do as my father had to do b/c neither parent could afford tuition…enter the military. Or he can find a work/study program that my mom used to fund her college education. My husband did the whole semester on/semester off thing because he was busy working to afford a college education. My husband and I worked our way thru our college education, ended up with loans for years. My grandmother hostessed her way thru college in the 1920’s. The student in question is an US citizen, quite worthy I must say, so let him work his way to his degree like the rest of us.
USMC wife …
Your situation was complicated by the fact that domicile rules for in-state tuition also presumed that the domicile of the wife is that of the husband, i.e., that you couldn’t establish a domicile separate from your husband to qualify you or your children for in-state tuition. The common law and statutory presumption is that you are a family and that the family can only have one domicile. Otherwise, the law would be saying that you as a wife can have a present intent to remain in VA indefinitely while your husband has a present intent to remain (or return to) his tax home. Because of the number of active duty military spouses who now work outside the home and who sought in-state status to pursue a college education, some years ago (before the bill two years ago that now allows all active duty personnel and their dependents to qualify for in-state aid regardless of domicile or tax home), the law was changed to permit spouses of active duty military to qualify for in-state aid if they paid taxes for a year. The law did not, however, sweep the children into this statutory change to common law presumptions about family domicile.
The treatment of the family as an inseparable legal unit in the case of domicile and in-state tuition decisions is not unlike the Virginia insurance rules that do not allow husbands and wives to buy separate car insurance (e.g., allow them to insure themselves separately where one party has a significantly worse driving record from the other).
One might ask why these “family unit” rules now seem to engender cries of unfairness whenever they are brought to light. Is it a function of the increasing individuation of our society, the breakdown of the concept of a family as a cohesive and unitary construct, feminism (we women don’t want to be seen as “owned” by our husbands)?
If you worked to elevate the level of discourse you encourage, you might also invite more people like me to return to participate in the dialogue, something that I have foresworn as a useless exercise in your fulminating corner of the blogosphere. — Claire Gastanaga, 27 minutes prior to this post.
Let me guess. Either you don’t really believe what you said, or you acknowledge that I have resolved your concerns in less than half an hour without doing a thing.
This is altogether too easy….
Big Dog, This is a finger in the eye from Walts. Oversized envelopes that require additional postage, heavy paperstock and what about the multi-language insert!
The entire school board, with the exception of Gill Trenum have been drinking too much Kool-Aid. Trenum is sticking to his campaign commitments .
It’s time to end revenue sharing in this county.
NO BENEFITS OF ANY KIND to illegal immigrants and/or to their children….EVER! ALL incentives must be removed in order to solve our illegal immigration problems.
If illegal aliens keep getting benefits….they will continue to flood into our country. Think of it this way….would you keep giving a drunk booze if you wanted him/her to quit being a drunk? Would you keep giving an obese person ding-dongs if you wanted them to lose weight? REMOVE THE INCENTIVES….that is the solution!