Better Late Than Never?
By Greg L | 17 March 2008 | Illegal Aliens, Prince William County | 35 Comments
The Manassas Urinal-Massager finally covers the drop in ESOL school enrollments in the area, nearly a week after every other regional news outlet has covered the story. You’d think that with all of the corroborative evidence that suggests that illegal aliens are leaving the area as a result of the Rule of Law Resolution that local policies and their impacts might be the story, but no, for the MJM the story is still largely PWC Schools spokesman Ken Blackstone claiming ignorance about the decline, despite that Prince William County conducts exit interviews with parents who remove their students from the school system. Evidently the MJM used this interlude to research just about nothing.
There’s no mention of what’s happening to ESOL enrollments in surrounding jurisdictions outside of the confines of Prince William County to provide a comparison. No apparent questioning of Ken Blackstone beyond the press release that the PWC schools issued. No effort to look at what’s happening in the hospitals, demand for services at the Community Services Board, nor any effort to track down illegal aliens to find out why they’re departing. Every other media outlet appears to have no problem whatsoever locating illegal aliens for comments about what’s happening in Prince William County, but the Manassas Urinal-Massager, our local paper of record, can’t seem to find a single one to talk to.
No, no one can figure out why this is happening, other than everyone else in the county.
We are truly blessed to have such fine local media which refuses to tell this story. It won’t last forever, though. The truth gets out, and residents of the county are going to once again see clear evidence that the Manassas Urinal-Massager’s effective mantra is “all the news we want you to get, and not a smidgen more” while they continue to cover for the illegal alien lobby. We now have confirmation, as if it was ever needed, that the Manassas Urinal-Massager is to the political left of The Washington Post.
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Illegal Immigration Issues Attract Little Interest Outside N.Va.
By Anita Kumar
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 15, 2008; Page B01
RICHMOND, March 14 — A divided Virginia General Assembly killed most proposals to crack down on illegal immigration during its annual session, despite legislators’ repeated pledges to address the growing population in last fall’s campaign.
Of the 130 immigration bills introduced, only a handful passed before the legislature finished Thursday. The bills that would have penalized illegal immigrants died during the session, a sign that the issue lacks a sense of urgency statewide.
“I think the problem here is that there are not enough localities that are feeling the same pain as exploding localities like Prince William,” said Del. Paul F. Nichols (D-Prince William). “It’s frustrating.”
Bills that passed will deny bail to illegal immigrants charged with a crime, require jails to check the legal status of those taken into custody and prohibit government contractors from hiring illegal immigrants.
Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D), who has often said that immigration policy generally should be left up to the federal government, has signed all three bills.
“Bills dealing with behaviors that threaten public safety ought to be taken very seriously,” Kaine said. “Beyond that, you’ve got to be very careful.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/14/AR2008031403912.html
It was about time that our community newspaper finally got around to telling the public about the decline on ESOL student enrollment. What they failed to report to everyone is the monetary value of that decline.
It is estimated that the 5 million dollar shortfall in the school budget is no longer an issue since the savings to the schools for the 600 anticpated ESOL students is estimated at 6 million dollars.
Since our county government and schools are operated largley by liberal Democrats, it is no wonder they can’t get very excited about this.
Well Ducky, with the apparently growing exodus of illegal aliens from PWC, other jurisdictions may soon “develop more interest.”
What’s important is that they publish stories like this at all. And people understand they can stay and fight, rather than move away and try to run from what’s happening.
I know this may be a bit off the subject….But….People keep talking about the “mass” exodus of illegals out of the County. Well, just taking a short drive around Manassas this weekend, revealed to me that there are still many, many illegals that have chosen to stay. I can honestly say that I saw more latinos(I know, all latinos aren’t illegal) mulling around on corners, and in stores, than I have in ages. I also witnessed two huge hispanic weddings, and a few once-vacant houses that are now occupied by large numbers of latinos! I might also add that the stores I frequented(Lowe’s and Home Depot), were packed with hispanics. As usual, I felt in the minority(an English speaker). I mean, the lady working the self-checkout at The Home Depot couldn’t speak a lick of English! When I asked her a question, I got the usual “deer in the headlights” look. Perhaps they are coming out as show of force? This past Saturday was a beautiful day, and it also appeared to be a smiling, sunny day for latinos. My point is this….Some illegals are leaving the County, and ESOL numbers are down, and this is good. But, the work is far from finished. HSM has done a fantastic job. But, I think that some illegals know that the “Rule of Law” resolution basically has no teeth. Just watch Charlie Deane on the PWC channel…He basically tells illegals that the poilce aren’t going to do anything to them. Pathetic. I think many illegals are just waiting it out, and they feel that all of this “stuff” will eventually blow over. I hate to be a downer. All I’m saying is…Please don’t give up or let-down. There is still a lot of work to do. Just exactly “what” that work is, at this point, I’m not sure. Many really good things have happened because of the work of HSM. But, as Winston Churchill said, “Never quit!” Thanks again.
If we could get a real Police Chief, the rule of law would have more teeth.
I would have to agree with CW of PWC, I live over on rt1 near the end of the parkway. I drive by both of the 7-11’s every day and haven’t see a decline in the number of day labor guys looking for work (sure, not all of them are illegal but I would guess that most are). Yesterday I also saw at least 2 cars and 1 truck that had mothers holding babies in their arms. These kids need to be in car seats, it wouldn’t take much of an accident for these babies to be killed. Something really needs to be done about this practice of not securing children properly before they are they fall victim to their own parents total disregard of seat belt laws.
CW,
As you said, not all Hispanics are illegal. As a matter of fact, most are legal. Even if every Hispanic illegal alien left PWC and the two cities, there would still be a very large Latino population in the area, and Americans shouldn’t have a problem with that. Remember, the efforts of those who supported the resolution are intended to deal only with illegal aliens, regardless of ethnicity or country of origin. Perhaps if we had this resolution in 2000, the 9/11 hijackers could have been caught. They were here illegally, and resided for a time in PWC. One brush with the law would have been enough.
The reports of ESOL decline, fewer overcrowding complaints, less use of the emergency room at the hospital, all point to the illegal alien population leaving the area. I am sure that there have been some legal residents leaving as well. If Hispanics who are citizens and legal residents of the US are chosing to remain in PWC, then this is the desired outcome of the resolution. Illegals leave, Legals stay. Criminal aliens get deported. Taxpayer services are recieved by legal residents.
How many Hispanics you see while you are out and about isn’t a valid indicator of the effect of the resolution, and talking about such things only feeds the claims that the WashPo and illegal alien apologists make that PWC is a racist community.
I saw a couple once that had a small pickup truck. They actually had the baby in the open truck bed, and had a rigged up a car seat strap. The mother would lean out the sliding back window of the truck to give the baby a pacifier and attend to his general needs.
There are two different societies here, with two separate sets of laws. Police would rather give a citizen a speeding ticket than enforce the vagrancy and loitering laws because it’s easier.
BTW, Montgomery County is facing a huge budget shortfall and will have to cut services and raise taxes. It will be interesting to see how quickly they become “intolerant” and “xenophobic” now that the pinch is beginning. Will we see a Help Save Rockville movement in the near future? One can only hope….
We need Sheriff Joe to replace Chief Deane. Sheriff Joe gets things done!
The 7-11 @ cornerstone has 12 day laborers @ 8am this morning. They seem to be hanging on. I have to agree with CW, they seemed to go into hiding when it first come out, but now they seem to have the feeling that the bark was worse than the bite could be.
Ari Stotle said on 17 Mar 2008 at 5:21 am:
“Since our county government and schools are operated largley by liberal Democrats, it is no wonder they can’t get very excited about this.”
What the heck are you talking about? The Board of County Supervisors is majority Republican (Stewart, Covington, Stirrup, Nohe, May, and Caddigan). The constitutional offices are held by Republicans (McQuigg and Hill). The School Board (while technically “non-partisan”) has six of eight positions held by those endorsed by the Republican Party (Johns, Lattin, Lucas, Otaigbe, Trenum, and Richardson). Heck, even the Soil Conservation Board is held by Republicans. In fact, there is not a single County-wide elected body that is not majority (if not super-majority) Republican.
So again, what the heck are you talking about when you say our county government and schools are operated by liberal Democrats. That statement is so blatantly inaccurate it’s laughable.
Oh, and one clarification on the decline in ESOL students. Since September there has indeed been a decline of around 600 students. However, this has been a net change. Based on information I was given by someone with the schools, about 1300 ESOL students have withdrawn while about 700 new ESOL students were added (for the net change of -600). In the overall ESOL populations, however, this is a fraction of the total population and not isolated to one area, so the net saving will be far less than $6 million. In many cases, there will be very limited savings because the departing students are spread out across the county which means that classes will just get smaller, not eliminated (and thus, the need for the same number of ESOL teachers and staff).
We need the schools to start tracking the number of illegal alien students they enroll so we can bill the Bush Administration.
Freedom said on 17 Mar 2008 at 7:00 am:
Well Ducky, with the apparently growing exodus of illegal aliens from PWC, other jurisdictions may soon “develop more interest.”
Ducky will have to find other resources for getting the lawn cut and painting around the house, etc.
Ike, I think you haven’t lived here … most of the Hispanics here are in fact illegal. A tremendous number of millegals jumpoed in here in the last 2-3 years. Yeah there has always been a healthy rpoportion of Latinos in PWC, but it’s not inaccurate to say most Hispanics in PWC right now are illegal, and something approaching half the people overall as of the height of the problem 1-2 years ago.
The day laborers are out in force at the 7-11 on Coverstone, no fear. Cheif Deane has reassured them I guess that they have nothing to worry about - and they don’t. People stop by and pick them up for illegal jobs and our vaunted police force couldn’t care less.
Ike,
I appreciate your sentiments, but I would like to know what proof you have to back up your statement that most hispanics in PWC “are legal.” I have found in my PERSONAL work experience that this is not the case. And, let’s be real….The resolution was meant to deal with illegals of all ethnic backgrounds. True. But, the overwhelming number of illegals in PWC are latino. I think this is best exemplified by who it was that came out in large numbers(thousands) against the resolution. The last time I checked it wasn’t “Ugandans Without Borders” but “Mexicans Without Borders.” And, by my saying that I am not a racist. The flop-houses in my neighborhood are not being run by Africans, Europeans, or Asians. These houses are inhabited by Central and South Americans. The individual “gang” types that hang out at Wal-Mart and harass my wife and children are not African, but hispanic. The dudes peeing on the street corners in front of 7-11s are not European. Let’s be real, and stop this politically correct poo-poo ca-ca.
Che’-
I’ve been following the Montgomery budget crisis, too. What will Ike Leggett (His Enlightedness) do with all the extra mouths to employ, educate and medicate?
Johnson said on 17 Mar 2008 at 12:01 pm
Increase taxes. The people of Montgomery Co. will eventually get tired of it and vote in a Board that will follow PWC’s lead and adopt a resolution to remove the ILLEGAL aliens.
Turn PW Blue said on 17 Mar 2008 at 10:46 am:
Since September there has indeed been a decline of around 600 students. However, this has been a net change. Based on information I was given by someone with the schools, about 1300 ESOL students have withdrawn while about 700 new ESOL students were added (for the net change of -600). In the overall ESOL populations, however, this is a fraction of the total population and not isolated to one area, so the net saving will be far less than $6 million. In many cases, there will be very limited savings because the departing students are spread out across the county which means that classes will just get smaller, not eliminated (and thus, the need for the same number of ESOL teachers and staff).
_______________________________
How do you figure we will need the same number of teachers and staff if the numbers decline? Even if it is 5:1 or 20:1 ratio of students to teachers it will require less teachers to do the job. With smaller classes they can be more effective in teaching them which requires less support staff. I see savings any way you slice this. These savings will help INDIRECTLY fund the resolution since less teachers and staff will need to be paid.
There is probably very little net savings at all. Numbers are set Sept 30. The teachers are still under contract and will finish the year. Your best bet if you really need to know is to call the finance office for explanataion. The PR people rarely know the details.
“Even if every Hispanic illegal alien left PWC and the two cities, there would still be a very large Latino population in the area, and Americans shouldn’t have a problem with that.”
I happen to agree with Ike. We have always had a large Latino population in this county (take a look at census data), the difference being that our legal Latino neighbors have assimilated into our communities along with the rest of us ethnically diverse folks (I happen to have been born in Germany). I have never felt that this fight has been about Latinos v. everyone else…it has ALWAYS been about legal residents v. illegal aliens, regardless of ethnicity. Putting any other face on it does give the appearance racism and xenophobia. I have absolutely no desire to see our legal Latino residents run for the hills (unless they are actively aiding and abetting)…I’d like to see the illegal aliens gone so that we can all live together in peace once more.
Legal latinos that are not “aiding and abetting” should come out and support the crack-down! By remaining silent…they are part of the problem! Groups like “You Don’t Speak for Me” are models for them to follow.
Gambler, the savings will be realized in the next fiscal year, and we’re working on the budget for that right now. Reduced personnel demand for ESOL might allow us in this fiscal year to shift resources to backfill the programs that were robbed previously in order to beef up the ESOL program.
Ike and AWCheney,
You guys are just mixing apples and oranges. It’s guys like you two that make the whole debate confusing. As “The Patriot” referred to above….A lot of legal latinos secretly support their “illegal” brothers and sisters, and thereby, contribute to the problem. Besides, if a latino person is “legal” they have nothing to worry about. I can’t believe you guys say with straight faces that we are appearing to be racist. Who cares what the Washington Post and the liberal media think anyway? They certainly don’t represent my interests. Gee, it would be too bad if I insulted the MS-13 gang members that spray painted on my property. Gee, it would be too bad if I made the people who run the flop-houses on my street uncomfortable. Perhaps many legal latinos feel bad because they have a guilty conscience? You guys are unreal. Do y’all have families? Well, if you lived where I do you might feel differently about caring about who you make feel bad. What about me? I feel bad. How about my feelings? I have small children. I care about them.
CW, you would appear to have a reading comprehension problem…perhaps you should read my comment again.
AWCheney,
I completely understand what you were saying…It was just the way I phrased my response that was incorrect. In a nutshell, I really don’t care who feels insulted(legal or illegal), just as long as the job gets done.
Medic:
I’m not saying there won’t be savings, but that the savings will not be the same as simply multiplying 600 by the current cost per student. Let’s say the ration of ESOL students to ESOL teachers is 20:1. Losing 600 students does not mean that 30 ESOL teachers can be let go next year because those 600 students are spread across all 82 schools. So one school may only lose 2 students while another loses 4. On both cases, the ESOL teacher position is still needed because there are enough students remaining to justify the class and the teacher position. That teacher costs the same amount whether there are 7 or 20 kids in the class. So we might be able to cut a portion of the teachers (and the other fixed resources), but you can’t say the savings will be $6 million because you take the cost per pupil average (~$10500) and multiply that by 600. I’m just saying the savings will be less than $6 million, not that there won’t be any savings.
I was also pointing out that while there is a net decrease of 600 ESOL students, there were also 700 new ESOL students that have started since September 30. The flow is still going both ways (though more seem to be going than coming). At any given point in time, the number of ESOL students (and students in general) is fluid and subject to peaks and valleys.
As for the “savings” backfilling programs previously cut, it is more likely the “savings” will be used to address the current gap between the proposed budget and what the schools actually get (which right now is between $6 and 19 million depending on which tax rate is finally advertised).
I think the frustration is that the school district knew this and kept the info hidden for as long as possible. Then when they realized it was going to get out anyway, they released it, and tried to spin it so that it wouldn’t affect their budget request. Think about how much money is involved! I’m sure they would have loved to have that extra $5-7 million in their budget, and no one believes they would have given it back had the enrollment for next year been less than expected.
Now they have a PR disaster on their hands. Once the public thinks a public body is trying to hide something and money is related, they are angry. The taxpayers are already on alert because of the new admin building and the article about high admin raises.
The school board sent that letter saying they had to have the money for 2000 students. Now it looks like they won’t have 2000 students because of an unexpected decrease of 800 students (600 + of which were ESOL), so are they going to decrease their request? I doubt it and the public is certain to notice.
The argument that the school board is certain to make is that 800 more students might show up. That argument doesn’t hold water, because their own predictions do not show that to be the case. A major way of predicting next year’s enrollment is based on the mid year additions. And if they really had been expecting 2800 instead of 2000, I’m sure we would have known about it, because they’d be asking for even more money.
“In a nutshell, I really don’t care who feels insulted(legal or illegal), just as long as the job gets done.”
I don’t disagree with that, CW, because those who are not part of the problem will not, or at least should not, “feel insulted.”
Turn PW Blue said on 17 Mar 2008 at 10:46 am:
Ari Stotle said on 17 Mar 2008 at 5:21 am:
“Since our county government and schools are operated largley by liberal Democrats, it is no wonder they can’t get very excited about this.”
Elected officials don’t run the day to day operations of local government. The people directly in charge make recommendation to the Republican BofCS.
Craig Gerhardt’s is the county executive (CXO) who has continuously failed to run government efficiently, he allowed the debt ceiling to be maxed out, and AAA bond rating to be at risk.
Land sales at Innovation have been far below expectations. Mr. Martin Briley is the highest paid Economic Development executive in Northern VA earning a quarter of a million dollars a year in salary, and gets paid when the contract is signed rather than at the closing table. We can lower the debt ceiling by selling off the land, and if Briley can’t do it after all the time he has had, find someone who can get the job. Who is his boss? Not the BofCS it is the county CXO.
Chief Dean had to be called out by BVBL before acknowledging that illegal aliens were living in PWC. When my kids withhold info that is the same as lying. Who is his boss? Not the BoCS but the CXO.
Miles Friedman, appointed as the chairman of the economic development council. PWC is his customer. His recently asked the BoCS for funding for affordable housing for police, teachers, etc. and $160,000 in consulting fees went directly in to his pocket., leaving only $50,000 for workforce housing. He publicly campaigned for Pandak!
Need I continue? This is blatant insubordination or in some cases incompetence that spans across all executive levels of (non-elected) county government intentionally to make elected Republicans look bad.
But Ari Stotle, where is you “proof” that these are all “liberal Democrats” running things and, quite frankly, even if they are, who cares?
To keep a AAA rating, debt needs to be less than 10% of the budget and less than 3% of the assessed value of the land in the county. The debt ceiling is maxed out as a percentage of the overall budget, not as a percentage of land value (it’s at about 1.3% of land value). Who sets the budget? The BOCS. Why is it maxed out? Because the current leadership of the BOCS has seen it more important to keep taxes low while property values have plummeted. That means there is less space available under the 10% cap for needed infrastructure like roads, schools, police stations, parks, fire stations, etc.–all things needed to keep the quality of life in line with citizen’s expectations. Gerhardt doesn’t have the authority to max anything out without the BOCS approving it.
Your line of reasoning is a cop out. The CXO serves at the pleasure of the BOCS. The Chief of Police serves at the pleasure of the BOCS. Martin Briley serves at the pleasure of the BOCS. Miles Friedman serves at the pleasure of the BOCS.
Need I continue?
If there truly is this level of “incompetence” and “insubordination” shouldn’t these people all be removed from their jobs? If they were all intentionally making elected Republicans look bad, wouldn’t those elected Republicans do something about it? Or are you implying that our elected Republican leadership is so stupid and ineffective that they are powerless to actually take any action? So if the people we elect can’t be held accountable for the way the government is run and don’t seem willing or able to exercise their authority to govern, I’d say it is high time to kick them out and elect some people who will! At the end of the day, regardless of your contention that the elected folks don’t really run things, the reality it the ones we elect are the ones responsible. The sign on Truman’s desk said “The buck stops here;” it didn’t point down the hall to the administrator’s office.
ESOL is just the tip of the iceberg and people on this blog refuse to look past it.
Team Will Track Pr. William’s Illegal Immigration Crackdown
By Theresa Vargas
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, March 17, 2008; Page B01
With the nation watching, the impact of Prince William County’s illegal immigration crackdown will be measured not by the county board that pushed for it, or the police officers who will enforce it, but by an independent team of college professors and criminologists.
At the heart of their evaluation will be a question that has never been explored: How does a community change when its police officers start checking citizenship?
The team will analyze everything from police records to public sentiment. But how do you measure such a policy’s success? If large numbers of illegal immigrants leave the county, were they driven out by police actions, out of fear or because there are fewer jobs in a flagging economy? If reported crime goes down, does it mean that fewer people are breaking the law or that more people are afraid to call authorities?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/16/AR2008031602533.html
The failing economy is likely a factor in enrollment declines.
Greg L said on 17 Mar 2008 at 2:56 pm:
That was my thought process exactly.