"We have lost our ambition, our imagination, and our willingness to do the things that built the Golden Gate Bridge" - Barack Obama (aka President Malaise)
Pitch in with the Prince William Young Republicans and help defeat Obama in 2012!
BOCS Approves $1.00 Tax Rate
By Greg L | 25 March 2008 | Prince William County | 42 Comments
The Prince William Board of County Supervisors has approved a $1.00 per hundred advertised tax rate at today’s special meeting, with Supervisors Covington, Stirrup and Stewart being the lone dissidents.
Just watch and see what the actual tax rate is going to be. This wasn’t just the limit for the tax rate, it is the tax rate.
The opinions expressed here are solely the views of the author, and not representative of the position of any organization, political party, doughnut shop, knitting guild, or waste recycling facility, but may be correctly attributed to the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy. If anything in the above article has offended you, please click here to receive an immediate apology.
You can follow the discussion through the Comments feed. You can also pingback or trackback from your own site.
42 Comments
Views: 1292
Loading ...
I am surprised it is that low. I believe Mrs. Caddigan said it best. She reminded us that everyone said fix the illegal immigration problem even if it meant upping the tax amount. They passed the resolution and now people seem to be balking about paying higher taxes. I guess you cannot have it both ways.
While not looking forward to an increase in the tax rate, I would grudgingly accept it if I believed that county agencies had been forced to cut their budgets, because as we all know, bureaucracies by their nature are wasteful organizations (especially when it comes to spending other people’s money). I lived through the 70s/early 80s era Army and know what it is to do your job with less money and it was not a happy time. If we could do it with the military, I would think we can do it with a county government.
If county agencies weren’t screaming, their budgets weren’t cut enough.
Just to clarify, what I meant in the above is that this maximum advertised rate will without a doubt be very close to the actual tax rate that will be adopted. In years past we’ve gone quite a bit below the advertised rate, but in this year’s climate it’s unlikely that will be the case tis year.
I will be more than happy to pay the increased rate provided we continue to see more illegal alien round up operations!
I want to see tangible results for my money!
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-border2508mar25,0,6782332.story
Mexicans buy homes in mexico…this is quite easy when they are not paying the normal taxes here and living off the public dole! Must be nice huh?
As I’ve said before, we have to be able to quantify the effect of illegal immigration on the County’s budget. One way to do this is to get an accounting from the school system of the number of illegal aliens they have enrolled. If the school system is not gathering this information, it’s wrong. I want to know how much of my tax dollar is going to educate children who should not be here. If it’s a significant number, then I can justify spending a little on lowering that amount a lot. If the number of illegal alien children is insignificant, I don’t want to be buying the police department some gold plated fly swatters to rid the county of the last remaining gnats.
Illegal Immigration is being used a carrot for the BOCS just like teacher raises or the new high school is used as a carrot for the school board.
They find something that people absolutely want to fund (like the resolution or teacher raises) and then they say unless taxes are raised to $$$, we can’t fund that “blank”. And people fall for it every time or perhaps they are trapped into falling for it. This is why Caddigan and Jenkins LOVED the resolution. It was a way to increase taxes for other things while hiding behind the resolution.
The truth is whatever “blank” is, it doesn’t really cost as much as the tax raise brings in, so spending in all the other areas is increased. So yes , at a higher tax rate, the resolution gets funded (which is a good thing) and the teacher’s get their raises (which is a good thing) but then there are no cuts anywhere else…only increases, which makes no sense when taxpayers themselves are having to cut back.
And it comes out of our pockets so in the end, we get the losing end of the deal.
I want monthly reports on the crack-downs on illegal aliens from Chief Deane! I want to see numbers of arrests and deportations. Let’s make this happen via our BOCS.
I think the resolution is already working without spending a penny. Showing that we are willing to enforce it is all it takes as long as other localities continue to be sanctuaries.
I don’t think the timing could have been better. The rhetoric from MD was so loud and clear in response to PWC residents intolerence of illegal aliens. They practically begged them to come across the river.
There are benefits to having a neighboring state steeped in liberal policies.
…but Dolph, funding the resolution does NOT automatically mean increasing the tax burden. Given the right kind of budget scrub (not likely to happen) I don’t know anyone who would balk at raising taxes if it were required to maintain essential county services AND implement the resolution. It certainly would have been interesting to see what wasteful spending would have been cut if funding the resolution were a “given” and the tax rate were set at $0.968. The reduced ESOL enrollment alone should save a lot.
I agree with advocator….our schools need to start gathering information on the legality of parents and students….AND….our ERs need to gather the parents information if they have children. This information needs to be sent off to ICE if illegals are found in the mix.
The United States Supreme Court has ruled that
a school system may not question the immigration
status of a parent or child. I don’t fully agree with their
ruling — but that is the law. You believe in the rule of
law, don’t you?
I thought they ruled that we (the taxpayers) had to pay to educate any child in this country from anywhere in the world, as long as they are here. I don’t believe that the Supreme Court ruled that schools could or could not ask whether the child was an illegal alien or not. It is time for Plyer vs. Doe is over turned. The taxpayers can no longer afford (nor should we ever be required) to fund the education of illegal alien children.
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:48 pm:
I will be more than happy to pay the increased rate provided we continue to see more illegal alien round up operations!
DITTO!
Should be: It is time for Plyler vs. Doe to be over turned.
I will also gladly pay for the tax increase as long as illegal aliens are kicked out of this county. I also liked the idea from one poster of getting a monthly accounting of where we stand on the fight against illegal immigration in this county. If we are going to pay for it, we have a right to know how it is moving along. We certainly can not count on our newspaper to keep us informed.
The Patriot (Got E-Verify?) said on 25 Mar 2008 at 2:55 pm:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-border2508mar25,0,6782332.story
Mexicans buy homes in mexico…this is quite easy when they are not paying the normal taxes here and living off the public dole! Must be nice huh?
Su Casita and other cross-border mortgage companies don’t require proof of legal status in the U.S. — only that their clients have a job and can pass a credit check.
Sound familiar?
starryflights-
Kindly suggest you Google - Plyer vs Doe, 1982.
School officials may not may not require children to
prove they are in this country legally. That would
be a clear violation of their “Plyer rights”.
It this could have been done - it would have
happened years ago.
starryflights said on 25 Mar 2008 at 5:35 pm:
I thought they ruled that we (the taxpayers) had to pay to educate any child in this country from anywhere in the world, as long as they are here.
I believe you are absolutely correct. We must educate them by law but I have never seen anything regarding that law that says you cannot determine one’s legal status and put it on record.
Cory Stewart was quoted in the MJM today about the advertised tax rate.
It’s the only way to force county staff to reduce spending,” he said, in an interview last week about his push for the lowest rate, 96.8 cents. “If we lose it here [at the advertising stage] the fiscal liberals will win a huge tax increase
Stewart is acknowledging that he nor the BOCS supervisors have the ability to control spending ? After all it is the BOCS who approve the budget.
The BOCS have set an advertised rate of 1.00 so what? They should now know the total value of assesments in the county but they did not know last week. They do not know how much money will come from the State. They do not know what they are going to spend. They have made no provission on being able to save the public more money by having vacant land, commercial, multi family and industrial pick up the income generated by the cost of car decals rather then put it all on the home owner. what do they care about the public and what it cost to live here.
How did Stewart, May or Stirrup come up with their tax rate to advertise not knowing any FACTS? Might they have visited the palm reader on Minniville? Of course why do they care about FACTS? They lied when the 800 million dollar bond issue was promoted as not causeing any tax increase. That is why what the public voted on and it is not being implemented. The public might never see anyof it for they are just now issuing bonds approved many years ago.
Neither Stewart, Stirrup or May are true fiscal Conservatives. Senator Bryd was the last true conservative in Virginia and he did not go out and borrow money they could not pay back and did not run the governement into debt such as Regan did. Bryd believed in a pay as you go fiscal policy in VA. One may not agree with that policy but that is a true conservative not these one a bee’s we have on the BOCS.
Now that Stewart can not run away from the mess he and others like him have created in PWC he will have to be shown as how incompentent he is as he did last week with no leardship in getting a tax rate set to be advertised. I wonder how long Gerhert will stay and deal with the children we have on the BOCS?
Pyler vs. Doe is not grounded in anything concrete in our constitution or laws. i look forward to it being challenged and likely reinterpreted some day.
Bob Wills,
“Now that Stewart can not run away from the mess he and others like him have created in PWC he will have to be shown as how incompentent he is as he did last week with no leardship in getting a tax rate set to be advertised. I wonder how long Gerhert will stay and deal with the children we have on the BOCS?”
I don’t know what your talking about Willis…LOL ( you saw that on another thread, I HOPE!)
Anyway,
My ears are still on and eyes watching
Wills, I believe the time of the politically correct boards and commissions of the1960’s, 1970’s and 1980’s is over. They are not relevant anymore; as they say of retired texts in the public schools - they are obsolete. Does the average PWC citizen really pay attention to the exorbitant costs of the MANY boards & commissions? E.g., the Office for Women (RIP) was a total waste of time, money & resources. It, like so many others still in existence, was run by a few paid people who drummed up reasons to keep themselves in existence. MANY of these boards & commissions duplicate services provided for in other agencies/departments.
I, for one, would appreciate the BOCS to force severe cuts to these non-essential groups (which is why I believe Stewart, Stirrup & Covington tried to keep the tax rate down - to encourage the county services to get serious about saving taxpayers money). I am tired of PWC (Gerhardt in particular) and Kaine always going after essential services such as police, fire&rescue and DMV when cost cutting is needed. They “punish” the taxpayers in order to “make us see the need” to continue the wasteful spending on special interest or non-essential programs/boards/offices/commissions.
I’d like to see the BOCS replace the County Exec. & Chief Deane with two other individuals who would be paid less (salary commensurate, not time in position) and truly care about the Rule of Law and financial accountability (not spinning the numbers to further their own agendas). The Director of the county’s Human Rights Commission is paid about $100,000 per year. Pare it down to a less-costly part-time position or eliminate it. If there is an actual case of discrimination or crime, take it to the police or a lawyer.
Does anyone else have experience with other programs or commissions that can be studied for cost-saving measures? Let your PWC BOCS know!
legal2 asked
Does anyone else have experience with other programs or commissions that can be studied for cost-saving measures? Let your PWC BOCS know!
The county attorney and is backed up by Stewart and the BOCS says the Board of Appeals can take your money some 400.00 to hear a request for a set back variance to build an addition or garage on your property. The problem is that the VA State Supreme Court has ruled there is no exception to the set back laws on the books of any county or city. The county takes your money and then tells you per the court ruling at the hearing that they cannot and will not grant you that variance request. If a business man did they they would be charged with a crime. Of course Stewart and the BOCS feels it is alright to cheat you and do nothing to stop this illegal practice. We could get rid of at least one employee by just telling the truth to the public when they come in to request a variance. Unless a board is required by law I agree that many of them could be eliminated. In the public works department I asked to look at the plans to build a sidewalk infront of my property by the county. It took 4 people to show me the plans but we can thank the British for teaching those people how to increase the government spending.
Legal2 The Board does not care what is spent and Stewart is no more a consertative then the man in the moon. Bond paument require a tax increase if you are going to issue them.
increasing the tax rate is very likely the stupidiest move the BOCS could make at this time. There are already many homes in foreclosure because people can’t afford their mortgage payments. I read yesterday that PWC has the highest foreclosure rate in the area, with one in 110 home in foreclosure. So the BOCS solution is to raise the tax rate, which will raise everyone’s mortgage payments since more will need to be set aside for tax escrow, and more people will be unable to make their mortgage payments, resulting in more defaults. Way to go BOCS!
It galls me that they choose this soultion instead of budget cuts and despite the fact that the resolution is resulting in savings for the county.
JM,
Perhaps the responsible members of the BOCS understand that many of us living here would like to live in a county has services and a school system that meets state standards.
Many people sat right on this blog and went to BOCS meetings and said they would accept their taxes being raised if the BOCS did something about illegal immigration.
We are in uncharted waters as far as how much money will be saved because of the rule of law. Maybe…maybe not.
It is probably time for everyone to put their money where their mouth is. You asked for it, you got it. I am just glad that a couple hundred dollars isn’t going to throw my budget in to a tailspin.
In response to what Big Dog said on 25 Mar 2008 at 5:24 pm:
Big Dog: I’ve got the entire Plyler decision in front of me and I cannot find anywhere in it a holding that says school systems cannot collect information on the legal residency (or the lack thereof) of their enrollees. It does say you cannot deny them an education on that basis, and I’d agree with that decision on the particular facts of that case. If you could quote me some language out of that case (or any other) that says school systems cannot collect the information, I would really appreciate it. If you want to correspond personally on this subject, you could send an e-mail to DukesPlace@verizon.net.
Thanks.
DukesPlace, damn that sounds like a good bar.
Advocator,
I’m not a lawyer and my
knowledge of Plyer vs. Doe is mainly from searches
on the web.
While the actual Supreme Court decision
doesn’t say we aren’t able to identify undocumented
children, much of the commentary and rulings since
seem to assume that is the case. Apparently no
jurisdiction has challenged that — perhaps you can
get the PWCPS or BOCS to do that. Good luck.
My goal is not to force any child out
of school, but to obtain factual information for
the purpose of proper cost allocation — the
expense of these students belong with the Federal
government.
Would note this was a decision made
by the Burger court in 1982 - it is time to
review it.
Some recent facts: more than 800 fewer students in PWC schools then in September…first time this has EVER happened, so the schools should be able to save 800 * $7000 or $5.6 million/yr. 1/2 the homes listed for sale in PWC are foreclosures, the highest percentage in the state and among the highest % in the USA. @ 1.00 my tax bill goes up $1300/yr. The % rate increase (if it turns out to be $1) will be the largest in the history of PWC.
Harry-
Come on…the % increase in the rate is irrelevant. It’s the tax bill that matters. Or do you believe that we saw tax cuts from 2000 to 2007 since the rate was cut every year? I know my bill went up every year, despite the rate cuts. A $1,300 a year increase in your bill sounds terrible–but you obviously don’t represent the average.
I wonder how many people will lose their homes because of this tax increase? I think we need to grandfather in real estate tax. New buyers would pay the newest real estate tax rate. We could start a petition and get enough signatures to put in on a ballot. I can’t imagine that the voters would not pass this. As far as funding the Illegal immigration Resolution, I think we should start with the savings it has already created from the schools. I don’t want my taxes going to fund any part of an illegal alien’s presence in this county.
Thank you, Big Dog, for confirming what I already knew.
There is nothing that legally prevents any school system from asking for documentation of legal residency. The citizenry should be clamoring for it.
You should stop spreading false information.
Hey how bad can taxes/current appraisels be when I got a refund check from my mortgage company for an overpayment of escrow? Schools are forbidden from asking parents what their legal status is. In fact, I went thru my students’ emergency cards…and only five out of 18 mothers provided employers/employer phone numbers. As for the fathers only 7 out of 18 fathers provided the school with employer data. Most of the emergency cards list only the fathers name, and all employment data is blank. I went into the next room and asked what employment data they had for the fathers and the mothers….their copies were also mostly blank. One father wrote “affordable” in the blank asking what the employment is.
But the schools do know who gives an United States Birth Certificate and who shows a passport or something else when the kids register. You have to show one or the other, so you could definitely tell who was an immigrant and who wasn’t.
The next step would be to include visa information in the registration process to see who was here legally by visa and who wasn’t. Although you would still educate the child, you would have the information.
As long as they don’t use it to deny admission to public schools, why is this any different than all the other info they keep in file, like race, insurance, social security numbers, etc?
You may have to anon, but I don’t believe these illegal aliens are required to do anything but sign a form swearing that they actually live in the school district. They have such honest faces, you see. I guess we don’t.
Going back to the first comment posted here (Dolph)….
What don’t you understand? The whole point of cracking down on illegals was that they’re supposedly costing us all this money and resources. And now, to kick them out, we need to…..raise taxes?
This crackdown IS about racism. Spin it all you guys want, but at the end of the day it’s clear from comments posted on this site (griping again and again about hearing Spanish spoken, how they don’t “conform,” etc.). Look, I don’t necessarily have a problem with that. I freely admit to racist attitudes myself on occasion. There’s a big segment of America that is ultimately racist. Always has been. (Remember Ronald Reagan giving all those speeches about “welfare queens”? That played well to a specific segment who “got” the code–he meant blacks.) Probably always will be.
But here’s the thing…people will happily cop a racist attitude, until it hits them in the pocketbook. I’d honestly be happy with a lot fewer Mexicans running around here. But make me pay to do it? No way.
Joe: Spending some money now on the problem is an investment in improving our schools, our neighborhoods, our quality of life.
CXO should be ashamed that he has sent such a FAT budget to the BOCS. He took the department budgets, which are padded and full of “wish list” items and sent them along to the BOCS without paring down a thing. Some times parents have to say NO to their kids but apparently CXO is incapable of that.
Do we really need a mounted police unit in PWC? Do we really need a police boat and several fire boats when we have no water in our jurisdiction? Do we really need a palace of a School Admin building and numerous high-priced administrators?
I have no problem with the cost of controlling immigration but I am certain that there are areas that can be cut to pay for it WITHOUT raising the tax rate 27%. It seems to me that the CXO is unwilling to make the department heads find the fat and cut it.
So, if you know where there is fat, let’s hear it and throw a spotlight on it so it can be CUT!
Okay (if my memory serves) — in 1992 PWC had less than 500 students in ESOL classes — that number jumped to around 14,000. During the same time period the total school enrollment increased from about 42K to 75K. Generally over the last 15 years — PWC has seen roughly a 70% increase in number of students and 2,200+% increase in number of students who had little or no English language capacity. During this same time period the total population of PWC increased around 30%. 22% of our 2006 population was foreign born and 54% of that is from Latin America. 18% of the children live in Spanish speaking households.
I have seen estimates that the LEP students (limited English Proficiency) students cost an extra $3,000 a year.
I believe the cost per student in PWC is around $7,500 (well below the national average) –
So when slightly less than 20% of the students cost as much as 40% more to education — this means that those other 80+% of the students are cheated from the full value of the education dollar.
However, with a one semester drop of 600 to 800 students out of ESOL enrollment this is a savings of at least $4 million and probably more.
So — the non-English speaking community is a much larger burden upon our taxpayers for educating their students.
I will be happy to pay my extra taxes — however every time I come across someone speaking Spanish in public — especially to their children I am going to request that they pay me $1.00.
I estimate that my property tax bill will go up about $400 — so I think a couple weekends in Wal-mart and I will have “re-extorted” the money back from those directly responsible for my increased burden.
Does anyone know how to save “please give me a dollar – this is what you owe me for educating your children” in Spanish.
no name, ah, ah, I didn’t take any position on anything you mentioned, just listed some facts.